Transcript of my conversation with TonyLeepeters (Part 2) 4/10/2021

Hey everybody, and welcome to another episode of Knocked Conscious. Once again, to people who may have triggers or might be a little sensitive to this subject, we're going to do a little bit of a deep dive on personal stories about suicide. If you don't want, if you're not comfortable with the subject material, but you're interested in learning or hearing about it, I would ask that you listen to this with a close friend that may help you through it.

If you're very uncomfortable with the subject matter as a whole, I would ask that you refrain from listening to it at all, just for your own mental protection. Tony, welcome again to Knocked Conscious, sir. Hi, Mark.

Hi. Nice to be here. Thank you for coming.

And did you bring the Kleenex? Because I'm going to need a couple of boxes. Yeah. So, last week, we discussed suicide and how people feel and how we can approach them and how we should approach people and at least ask and talk to people and keep communication open with people feeling differently or feeling like they might show those signs, right? Yeah.

But today we wanted to share a little bit more about how these, if we don't do what we talked about last week, what happens and how that affects those around us and directly affects other people. And that's equally as important as well. I think by sharing our own personal stories, as you say, it helps people not only be more informed, but maybe it would give people more motivation to help other people to make sure that this kind of thing doesn't happen again if they encounter it themselves.

And it might open their eyes to certain signs as well. Yeah. So, if you'd like, at your convenience, please, if you'd like to start with your first personal story.

Okay, so I'll share a story. I shared a story about my friend Mark in the first podcast in last week's. So, another friend of mine, Alex, he was in his late 20s.

This happens 12, 13 years ago. Alex was a really funny guy. He was vibrant.

No one has a clue about what was going on for him. If you kind of think of the least possible person to have mental health issues, it would have been Alex. So, none of us had a clue, but he was clearly going through a lot and he ended his life by jumping off Beachy Head.

Beachy Head is a well-known suicide spot here in the UK. And his death just sent shockwaves through our little community of friends and family. And it was really hard to deal with why.

Jess mentioned in her email about often the people that are left behind are left struggling with why did someone do this? And over time, we started to piece a few things together and there were certain clues as to why he did what he did. But it's the fact that perhaps he didn't feel that he could talk to anyone. And then that questions your own kind of level of friendship with that person.

It's just absolutely devastating. I'm sorry for your loss. These things are really hard.

And it's interesting because we do kind of internalize it a little bit. Like I had a friend who had an illness and I only heard about it after he recovered and how selfish of me to say, why didn't you tell me about it? In a weird way, right? Like, but it may have helped him, you know? Hmm. You know, and as friends, we want to think that, you know, we're there for people and that we can help them.

But- Was there something specific about it that you saw now or in hindsight that you could maybe share with someone to look for now? Yeah, there were periods of, he was the life and soul. He was really vibrant, but there was also periods of him being down, but then everyone can be down. He certainly wasn't like down and depressed, but there were moments when he wasn't, I guess, on form.

But we were so used to him being, you know, on form and being the life and the soul. But yeah, like we mentioned before, just looking out for those little signs. I do also remember that there was, he had a girlfriend, but I can remember that he would very often make jokey comments about sexuality.

And we'd later discovered that possibly one of the reasons was struggling with his own sexuality. So perhaps if someone had picked up on the fact that he was making these jokey comments, that actually there was something a little bit more serious going on there. But hindsight, it's hindsight, isn't it? It is hindsight.

I can speak a little bit to that life of the party thing. Because we mentioned Robin Williams, for example. The pressure to keep that persona up is daunting.

I think that I kind of was the life of the party. Like I knew every song I would sing along, I'd be this jovial, but honestly, that's not who I was inside until I sought help, you know? So is it like a performative thing? Well, if you're the life of the party, how could you possibly be sad? But being the life of the party, was it like a performance that you felt you had to put on? It, you know, I'm, I'm naturally that way. But I think over time, you kind of build a persona, right? So then it become it becomes a thing that you, because it's like, I'm sure that growing up, like you were that guy that did that, like, my friend was that guy, you know, he was the tall guy, or he was the fast guy, or he was the athletic guy, right? We had, I was the jokester, for example.

So I would think like, internally, the pressure to always be on was very tiresome. So I would, I would seclude myself a lot because I didn't, I felt in the presence of, like, I bathe in energy of other people, I think. So that lifts me up, but it also totally drains me because I give it all away.

So then I isolate, but that creates other problems, right? So it's kind of like that. But yeah, would you ever guess that someone like a Robin Williams would ever be depressed, even when you're sad, ever have a sad moment? Yeah, you wouldn't. But you know, as I said, everyone's allowed to feel down, everyone's allowed to get depressed.

And, and in a weird way, the side of the manic, which is the partygoer is the depressed, right? Yeah, there is the that that dichotomy to that. There is a crashing when you're that life all the time. It's usually not in plain sight, right? It's usually hidden.

It's usually buried. Yeah. Well, thank you for sharing that story.

Did you want to share a little bit more about Mark's story at all? Before I talk about mine, and then you close with yours? No, but I'll just share the last kind of like friend story, a guy called Chris, he was in his 30s. Chris was a really lovely guy. He was funny.

He was, he was very tortured. I knew Chris originally in a professional capacity. So I was a telesales manager many moons ago, and Chris was one of my employees.

But there was something about Chris that kind of got under my skin and in a good way. And we became good friends for a period of time, outside of work, and it became quite clear that Chris, Chris's childhood kind of mirrored mine in a way. So I guess I took on a bit of a mental role with him, just helping him through some of the feelings he was having about having that traumatic childhood.

And then like you said, in the in the last podcast, you know, over time, people separate, people, you know, life happens. And he went in his direction, and I went in mine. And I can remember, it's really vivid, a really vivid memory of bumping into him in a local supermarket.

And I looked at him, and he was with his girlfriend, he looked at me, and we didn't even acknowledge each other. And I remember this, this, this thought just came in my head, I need to speak to Chris, I need to say hello to him, but I didn't, I turned away. So a few years after that, I was around a friend's house, and I got a, she also knew Chris.

And we got a message, or I got a message through from someone on Facebook to say, did you know that Chris killed himself, he hung himself. And it turned out that he, he was tortured, he did have a lot of problems, he was experiencing professional support. And his friends at the time were being really supportive to him.

But for one, one reason or another, they just couldn't get through, perhaps they didn't have the toolkit, or perhaps he just wouldn't let them through. But yeah, I think, I think out of those three men that I knew, I think Chris's death, although I hadn't spoken to him for quite a period of time, effectively more than anyone else's, which is a bit of a strange thing to say. But it's, I think it's because we all knew Chris's potential.

And it's just such a, it's such a loss, it really is a tragedy. You know, when we speak about tragedy, yeah, there's personal tragedies, but it's just tragic. When, when someone with so much to give does something does something like that.

On the plus side, though, I did reconnect with his best friend, and we still still talk to this day. And Sam's probably listening to this. So hello, Sam.

Yeah, that was Chris. So you had Chris, Alex and Mark. Yeah, three.

Yeah. I'm sorry, that's that one. It sounds like you built a deep friendship out of an initial dislike in a weird way.

Did you? Did you have some kind of, it kind of built out of respect? Almost? No, I think it built. It built out like he challenged you or something or not challenge you, but what it was this this commonality of the childhood. Okay.

Yeah, I think that's that's really how it grew. That's beautiful. I'm sorry.

I'm sorry to everyone's families as well. How did it? Are you still in touch with the friend of the friend? Of Chris? Yeah, I'm still in touch with Sam. Yeah.

Sam and the woman that you got the message? Yes, still in touch with her. And do you have do you have one more? Or is the are those the three? They're the three. And then you want to end with yours? Is that correct? Yes.

Yeah, that's excellent. Okay. Is that okay? Does that work for you? Yeah, that's fine.

Okay. Is there anything you'd like any personal messages you want to send to the families of Alex, Chris or Mark before we continue? Just that I hope that they're coping with, with grief and that they've had professional support themselves. And there are people like Jess said in her email, you know, there are people that are there for them that are thinking of them and that are sending them love and, and all the wishes in the world.

Yeah. And the guilt, right? The guilt, the personal guilt, the survivor guilt is so daunting at times. Yeah.

Please don't let that there. Sometimes you'll never know or you can piece some pieces together. But it's it's a challenge.

It's one of those mysteries that always seems to haunt us, but we have to be able to let that portion of that go. We can still hold on to the greatness, but let the part of the guilt go for sure. And it's really important to not think that you are responsible.

You know, if you have tried to help someone and that hasn't helped, it's they haven't done what they're doing because you didn't help enough. There are so many different things. There would be so many different things going on in that person's head.

But hopefully through, as we said, talking and pointing people in the right direction, it should never have to get to that stage. Yeah. I look at the clock and it's 1234 synchronous right there.

Well, idea of any final thoughts about everyone about about your stories? Just just I miss them. But let's let's hear from you, Mark. Everyone who leaves this world is missed by somebody.

Yeah. So I think that's a beautiful thing to talk about. All right.

Are you I don't know if I'm ready, but are you ready? Are you ready, Mark? Yeah, I hope so. So my story evolves around my entire literally starts with my desire to be dead. Let's see here.

How long ago? What's that? How long ago was this desire? Yes, it's it's about March 2015. OK. And I am 40 going on 41 because I'm going to turn 41 in September.

So, you know, we're going to talk mid midlife crisis, right? Yeah. Literal midlife crisis. So I walk into this gentleman's office.

He says I'm different and I lose it. And he it's almost an instantaneous snap for me. But I didn't understand why I'm different, right? Like you and I have I haven't shared that much, but I shared my first interview recently with people and about my psychic ability or I don't know if it's ability or whatever it is.

It's it's real. My experiences are real. I don't know how much they're tied to me, but they happened.

You know, I walk in this gentleman's office and he's an NLP person and NLP people do like hypnosis to a point. My first hypnosis under this gentleman, there was a shooting in South Carolina where nine people were shot, including the pastor. And I saw the vision of that the week before it happened.

It was the first. It was the first thing I never experienced anything like this. I came out of this meditation.

He told me to look. He told me that I was on the beach and I I looked up in the sky and there were these rotating sheets of glass and it was like looking at televisions through a store window. You know, like in Christmastime, you look through the store window to like the TVs.

It kind of reminded me that. And during the during the turning of it, I saw a black man at a podium with a suit turned to his right, turned to his left and I saw a gunshot go off. And I directly tied it to a video that I shared last week or two weeks ago with that interview.

So it's all together there. I wasn't the one who saw that. It's the actual NLP person that said, that's what that's what you saw.

And it it shook me. It shook my foundation because I've had like little psychic experiences in the past. Little things, but nothing to this extent.

So once I had that epiphany, I started seeking a lot of spiritual things in Arizona, of which there are a lot, by the way, because we have Sedona and all these other cool energy places. So I started seeking these star seeds and empath and all these spiritual kind of people. Okay.

They have this group called Meetup. I don't know if they have Meetup in the UK, but it's basically like it's like an app that y'all find a common group to join. Right.

Yeah. So I go to this one thing and I have my first, I go to the first time ever and we all share our story. The next week it came up again and some, you know, it was like, should I go again or whatever? I'm like, you know what? Something's telling me to go.

I should just go. I started following my intuition a little bit and I'm sitting at the plate at the house and my back is towards the door and it's like a long hallway and the door opens and I immediately feel this weird like thing come over me. Right.

I just knew something was up. Right. I turned around.

It's a young man, 24 year old man and his mother. It looked like it could have been an older girlfriend. Who knows? Right.

I wasn't certain what the relationship was, but I was like, okay, cool. We all sit down and the woman sits at a sofa. The gentleman sits at the end of the sofa and then there's another sofa, like, you know, L-shaped like catty corner.

So I sat next to the gentleman on the other sofa, if that makes sense. So he was like right next to me, but like on a corner kind of. So we all share our story and I, I'm like, Lee, you know, everybody, please go ahead, whatever.

So everybody started and we get to the gentleman's mother and the mother starts sharing her story about her son and how he always had, he's always feisty and want to get into fights and angry and hurt. And there's, this is the last, the last hope I have for him. This is the last place I could take him to find anything to help him.

I don't understand and I'm lost. And that was heartbreaking. But then, then Jay told his story.

He's 24. He had a really bad motorcycle accident. Once again, I, it's my opinion that traumas have caused a lot of spiritual awakenings because they affect the brain physically and do something.

I think they, they physically change you. I don't, I just don't know. He was in a coma and he was young, 18, 19 years old.

He's a motocross guy and he, and when he came out of it, he was a little different. Um, so Jay shares his story and he just looks around the room and I don't know why, but I, I'm like this. Okay.

So this kid is like six, I'm five, eight. I'm a chunky little bastard. Okay.

This dude's like six, two and like ripped. He's a personal trainer. You know what I mean? Like, you don't want to mess with this guy.

And his mom's just told us that he's gotten into fights and been to jail, right? Like, or like over fights, right? Over, you know, altercations. But something told me to put my hand on him. So I put my hand on his knee and he just, he just stared at me and lost it.

It's like there was nobody else in the world. And, uh, I just, I knew I had to just tie, you know what I mean? It was just like the gesture. Yeah.

And, uh, he wrote me an email the next day. Um, I'd like to share it dated, uh, May 19th of 2016 is when this happened. Cause it's about a year into my kind of awakening, right? Yeah.

Hey man, I just want to say thanks for being yourself yesterday was in a bad place mentally, uh, in parentheses wrote frozen your super amazing energy and acceptance to really care what I was saying and understanding got me to break out of my shell. My ADD was out of control after that. So couldn't even listen to others at all, even though I tried, would love to talk and get another understanding and perspective.

If you ever have any free time, extremely important time in my life to me yesterday. And I know there is only more to finally understand myself. I don't believe in coincidences and I, and not the coincidence that there was only one person with that special energy, a very familiar, comforting energy.

I could be open with to no issue, uh, open to with no issues. That is not me either. LOL.

Just wanted you to know. I appreciate beyond words. Nobody in my life has ever heard the real me take care.

Wow. So just from that simple little gesture. Yeah, that's all it took.

Yeah. Complete stranger, complete stranger. Um, I immediately wrote him back.

I said, when do you have free time? And I think it was a meeting on a Wednesday and I think we agreed to meet on Saturday for coffee on Friday. He tells, sends me an email. He broke up with his girlfriend.

So I knew that he was letting go. You know what I mean? Yeah. Every sign was there and we met at a park.

Uh, we, we ended up, we started it outside of a coffee shop because, Hey, let's go to this park. And I'm like, okay, cool. It's a may, you know, it's may what 20th or something.

And it's so freaking hot in Arizona that we were under a tree and I got sunburned. We were there for four hours. It was 105 degrees.

And we just stood there. And I, I literally stood there with him for four hours and just let him just be right. Just be with him.

And I like, I know that saved his life. I didn't save his life, but I know that did. Do you know what I mean? Yeah.

So, um, so he would, you know, he'd go through his manic and depressive points and there's a spiritual connection and I'll share that. Uh, we used to go to meditations together. Uh, we have a psychic medium that we're friends with and my best, my friend that I actually moved out here with, uh, her name's Heather.

She actually, he moved in with her. They were roommates for a bit. Uh, so we all had some kind of weird, just weird spiritual connection.

Um, so he had an idol. He idolized a guy named Greg Plitt, who was a personal trainer. And he was one of those motivational speakers.

If you're familiar with like a Dave Goggins kind of guy, like, Hey, get the fuck up, man. All right. You know, like one of those, and he was a personal trainer.

So it kind of fit his, his warrior mentality, you know? Well, this gentleman died in a tragic train accident. I think it was at the LA like exchange. He was, he was filming and he wasn't authorized to be there.

And he literally got hit by a train and was struck and killed by a train. And for a long time, Jay would say, man, you know, like almost like I'm going like, he's going like no joke. And I'm like, you know, he idolized this guy who died.

It wasn't, he didn't do it on purpose. It's not like he did it as a heroic gesture. He, he did it incorrect.

You know what I mean? Like he did it illegally, filming illegally and he died, you know? So, uh, it's too, so that was may of 2016. So let's go forward a full year. It's August of 2017.

And, uh, I am quote unquote, funny enough. I am at a Phoenix, a Phoenix Metro, like a Metro, like a commerce group. And I'm talking with a man who was 27 year old son took his own life.

And I get a phone call from Heather and Jay's gone, he disappeared. He was gone for two days and they found his truck up in New Mexico. And he threw himself in front of a freight train.

He's 25. And, uh, guilt. He sent me a text while he was up there and I didn't know where he was.

And he just said, where are you, man? And I didn't reply. And then he sent me a picture of a sunrise and that was it. So Jesus.

But if, if, if I hadn't met him a year earlier, he wouldn't, we, we had another year with him, you know? I mean, honestly. So the, the, the gift that I had with him for a year and change, I'm so happy I'm blessed for that. Well, losing him was hard.

And are you still living with any guilt? No, not, I mean, I, I know of it, right. I'm aware of it, but like, it's hard to feel like the savior and the executor. Why would you feel like the executor? My lack of response.

Cause I know he needed, he needs immediate response. Hmm. And, uh, to your point, like your friend, uh, to say they had too much going on in my head, I wasn't going to say that, but I was like, I can't, I can't handle it right now.

So that's where we're at. Um, and also Mark with life, we can't, we can't always be all things to all people. We can't be there immediately for someone life, life happens.

Unfortunately. Thank you. I have made peace with it.

I have thank you for that. And for people who do feel good, I want to let you know that if you do, it does get better, but you have to, you have to really address it and work through it for sure. And talk with people who knew those people, because they will tell you it's not your fault.

They'll help you as well. You need mental help too. And you need help through this.

Um, yeah. So the, the, the FOSO, uh, that Jay shared with you, I guess that would have been one of the last things that he would have seen. So in a, in a sense, you're, you're really honored to receive that.

The fact that he shared that with you. I am honored that he sent his final share with his final time with me. Yeah.

Yeah. Um, so this is where it gets weird. How about that? That's not the weird part.

Um, a week later we had a little, like a group. We used to meet at a park in Arizona and we had a little get together with everyone who knew it through me, through Heather, through our, like our, you know, not our meditation group, our, our spiritual people. Right.

And our friend, her name's Crystal Vermeer. And she's a, she's a psychic medium. And she, we were like, do we think we'll get messages? Like we were kind of messing around, right? Like there's no way.

And Jay sent messages to us, each of us individually. And I, if you're okay with that, I'd like to share a couple of them. Yeah.

Jay and I had some very deep conversations. He had unique conversations with everyone. I'll share the one with Heather first, because, uh, basically what happened was Crystal would get a message and she'd pull people aside.

Like she literally would pull individuals aside and say, this is for you. So, uh, for, for Heather, what Jay said was, uh, he was pulling like, like, you know, how Superman ripped his clothes off, like Clark Kent, like in a phone booth to open. Yeah.

And she kept saying wetsuit, wetsuit or something like pulling his chest apart. And Heather immediately started. She lost it.

Like we're all watching and she literally lost her composure. Jay used to tell her that the body's just a skin. It's just a wetsuit.

You can rip it right off. And it was the weirdest thing. Right.

So like, you want to talk about message and then I got mine and I am, I'm a debunker, my friend, I have a hard time buying the stuff, but there were two messages from me. And it's funny because, uh, he used to have conversations with me, only me about this stuff. Cause, and Crystal knew of him, but never really spoke with him, if that makes sense.

So it's not like she had any information about this. So she goes, Mark, I have a message for you. And I said, you can share it with everybody.

It's not a big deal. Right? She goes, he's, he's throwing a Rubik's cube at you. He's throwing a Rubik's cube at you.

And like, literally like waterworks, right? Yeah. His conversations with me, he used to say, I figured out the world. It's a Rubik's cube.

I figured it out. I figured it out. He used to have sketches.

He used to draw things. And he actually drew like a picture of a Rubik's cube because I figured it out. I figured out the world.

It's everyone thinks it's this crazy math stuff, but it's so simple. Like, obviously, you know, Jordan was trouble, but he, but he, he was onto something right. But that she picked that up was unbelievable to me.

That's incredible. There is no one. There is no one who knew that conversation.

And then one more that she said was funny, because at the end of every time we saw each other, he'd want to like shake my hand or something. I go, brothers, don't shake hands. Brothers got a hug.

And I do the Tommy boy thing, right? With Chris Farley. Yeah. And she, she said to me, he's doing some Saturday night live thing with his hands open.

Like, and I'm like, that's, I mean, I don't know. I don't think it's a stretch, obviously, that those two, you know, that's where that came from. Basically.

Yeah. Obviously, it was a movie that they were in, but they were both cast on Saturday night live. Yeah.

So he's reached out. And he's reached out at other times, I think in my life, if I'm attentive or not, you know, hummingbird here or something. But yeah, that's, that's Jay.

Well, I'm really sorry for your loss, Mark. Thank you. The world, the world should be sorry.

Yeah. The world's the world's losing some lost That's a really beautiful thing to say, Mark. In terms of Jay reaching out, how, how did that kind of inform your, your grieving process? You mean the text that he sent me right before? No.

So reaching out afterwards during the group with the messages. Yes. So how, when the second I touched him, I knew we were connected.

I wasn't going to let him go. If that makes any sense. So I had already emailed him while he was sending me an email and I had already sent his mother an email because I was wondering how she could help.

Right. Cause I didn't know because the challenges that she was having. So I kind of multi-pronged it.

And then as soon as he responded and said, he broke up with, I got his phone number. We were talking or texting right away. And when he said he left his girlfriend on, he broke up with his girlfriend on Friday.

He said, I need to see you tomorrow. I think, I think that's how it kind of worked out. Okay.

And yeah, he, he did ask, I mean, I'm, I'm grateful that he asked for help because if he pushed me away, there would have been nothing, nothing would have happened. Yeah. Right.

So, but honestly, like I said, a complete stranger, all I had to do was look at him and just acknowledge that he's hurting. Yeah. And like you say, it's those, it's those little moments that can have such a massive impact.

Yeah. And the fact that you, that you got the messages through from the psychic as well shows just how deeply connected you were. And I think that's all of us too.

Right. Cause like how, how else I wouldn't have been connected to him unless I met him a year before I had, you know what I mean? Like there obviously there's this weird, I don't want to put a consciousness or like a reasoning behind everything or purpose, but I think we should still live purposeful lives. Right.

Yeah. But like, yeah, it hurt to feel like I was the person who saved him and also let him drown. But you didn't let him drown Mark.

No, no, not at all. But that's the feeling, right? Yeah. Yeah.

So that's where, that's what we have to work through. So with, with the signs that it sounds like you're still, you're still experiencing signs from Jay, maybe to this day, how I've personally closed them off a little bit, I think, because I I'm probably more, a little fearful of it. Okay.

But I would, maybe I can bring Heather on and she can speak. She, she was got very close. Very interesting.

He drew pictures. I told you he kind of had a sketchbook and the second I drew, I had a bunch of pictures I took. I showed him to Heather, for example, she goes, I got to meet him.

She had never met him before. And it was a while crystal, Heather and I were just sitting there doing some other event and yeah, Heather's like, I got to meet him. And that created their friendship.

It's strong, strange world sometimes, but it's, I mean, look, if we all came, I feel like we all came from one place. So we're all connected. I mean, it doesn't, this whole from one thing and oneness, that's not an, it's not a distruth or an untruth, you know? So anyway, that is Jay, my friend.

Well, I feel privileged to have known Jay just through what you've said. Thank you. He, he's the most beautiful person.

I'm going to share the picture too. I still have the phone. You know how you switch out phone plans? Yeah.

I kept, I kept the phone because I wanted to keep the string of texts. Yeah. It's just that important to me.

You know, and as it should be as well. Thank you. So your story reminds me of something kind of similar that happened with me.

So with Mark, so years after Mark passed away, I went to see a spiritualist medium and my granddad had just passed away and I was hoping to contact, to contact him, but instead Mark came through. And so pretty much like what you said, this spiritualist medium didn't have any idea who Mark was or any of our kind of like stories. And her first vision that came through was, she said, I can see an Oak tree, but it's painted blue.

And I immediately knew that was Mark, because one of the places we used to hang around with, hang around as kids was this kind of forest wooded area. And one of the trees was painted blue. So that really blew my mind at the time.

So I knew it was Mark coming through, but his message was, cause I didn't go to Mark's funeral. I just had my second, physically, I didn't, but I just had my second daughter at that point. And I can remember on the day of the funeral, thinking a lot about Mark and feeling guilt that I wasn't there.

And his message was, I know why you didn't come to the Oak and after your daughters. And I found that really helpful. It certainly helped me deal with my grief with Mark.

But yeah, isn't it interesting? The whole medium spiritualist thing. Sir, I have the story of stories that I'll probably share with you online or offline. I may have the courage one day to put it as a podcast, but I, it's still involves some personal people.

So it's really challenging to do that. Okay. But, uh, Crystal, the person, excuse me, the person I mentioned, she literally described a story of my going home.

Not, not just what happened, but literally the order in which it happened. And I've got the recording of the, the medium, uh, and I've got the documented story of where I came across each of the things she said. Wow.

And it's on, I'm not kidding. It's unbelievable. It really is.

Would you be able to share as crystal got a web address or I, uh, show, uh, she, she's, I've lost a little touch with her. She moved to Tennessee and then moved back to Arizona, but it's crystal K R Y S T A L last name is Vermeer V as in Victor E R M as in Mary E E R crystal Vermeer. Um, she'd be on Facebook.

Uh, you can tell her that, you know, Okay. Uh, she's, I think she's had some challenges spiritually because I think she's had some physical challenges lately. I just haven't spoken with her directly, so I don't want to speak for her or anything, but she would love to reach out.

I'm sure she'd love to hear from people. So, um, it's pretty impressive. Do you, have you gone back to that spiritual person since? No, no, I haven't.

Um, no, but, uh, weirdly a couple of, it was last, I think last November, um, I was speaking to a spiritualist on Facebook and, uh, she had a message for me from my granddad and from Chris. Um, yeah, which again is just, it's weird, but it's also absolutely fascinating. And again, she had no idea of those two people.

And, you know, when, when they talk about things that only you and that person knows, it's just, it's incredible, isn't it? It's mind blowing. It's mind blowing. I'll share one part.

I'm sorry. Go ahead. What was that? I was just going to say, it just opens up all these different kind of like questions and possibilities and connection as well that even after death, we are still connected.

Agreed. 100%. But, uh, so if I may, one of the parts of the reading, she said, you're going home to a place with an M and, and I was, it was a surprise visit.

So I wasn't staying at my parents and I wasn't staying anyone that I knew. I hadn't even known where I was staying yet. Right.

You're going someplace with an M and I'm thinking the city, the town, the state, it's nothing, nothing. I go and I ended up staying at my mom's best friend's house. And as I'm leaving from the trip, I actually am leaving to go home.

I turn around to close the door on the front door and it's their last name monogrammed on the mat of the door of their house. Wow. And I, and it's funny because I had actually built a good friendship because I actually vetted her.

I came back to her with her reading and asked her what she meant and told her what happened to, to give her like a little understanding. And, uh, I go, what do you mean when you said house with them? She goes, I just see a house and I see a letter M on it. And I took a picture of everything and I'm like, does this look like, she's like, yeah, that's what it, you know? Wow.

And it was the last person's last name. I didn't even know I was staying there. So to your point, like self-fulfilling prophecy, right? I couldn't have done that.

Yeah. And that's just a small, small step. Yeah.

Wow. Where are we at my friend? Do you want to share your story or where would you like to go from there, sir? Uh, yeah, I'll share mine. But before I do just, just checking in with you, Mark, and making sure that you're okay after sharing your story.

Thank you. I, I am good. Um, this brought up a lot cause I hadn't thought about it for a while.

So it was pretty rough all week cause we knew we were going to talk about it, but, uh, thank you. How are you doing with, with, I mean, you sounds like you've, it's touched you so many, so many different ways and with so many different people. Yeah.

But I guess because of the work that I do, um, you know, I'm able to, I guess, deal with it in a, in a bit of a different way than someone who doesn't work in mental health every single day. Um, yeah, I'm doing all right, but just make sure that after this conversation, Mark, you, you can kind of like debrief or just do whatever you need to do to, to chill. And you know what I'm saying? I do.

Thank you. Um, I, if I may, I planned, uh, to watch WrestleMania. So I have, yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm not going to lie.

I'm probably going to get pretty impaired and just watch WrestleMania. Uh, but, uh, may I ask you a question about in your professional, how do you cope with these when you, when you encounter these, what's your best coping? Um, being, I guess, being boundaried in a professional, in a professional way, but also, you know, we have supervisions. Um, I work with a really tight team.

I'm really blessed to work with a team of people that I work with. And, uh, you know, we do, it sounds corny. We're kind of like a family, but we do help each other out.

And so it's not just about supervisions or set times to, to debrief and talk about things. We just, yeah, we're just a good bunch of people. And it's, it's important to talk, isn't it? And, and, and share and help each other.

But I'm also, I'm also really aware that I do feel really lucky to be working in the job that I'm working in because I can deal with all this kind of thing. Yeah. Um, Oh gosh, I just lost my train of thought is, uh, you talk about the family stuff.

It's like, how, how can, how can you put a clock on a social issue? Like, let's not kid ourselves, right? This, the social problems happen 24 seven, right? You might get a flat tire when you're driving. Sure. That's an, that's an event, but you can have any challenge mentally, emotionally at any time of the day.

Like to, you know, when you talk about that supervision thing and the, like the checks and balances, like, how do you put a time? Like, Oh, you put your 40 hours in, I guess you can go home now. It's like, it doesn't seem like a job that affords you that. Uh, but because the team is so tight and we do talk to each other, um, it does kind of like afford us that, you know, you, I guess you have to, yeah, you have to make your, you have to make your own way.

Don't you have to make your own kind of, uh, changes within the environment. Yeah. And that speaks to the strength of each of yourself and your individuals that are part of this team that you're, that you curated, right? Yeah, it does.

But, but also we work for a mental health charity. So, uh, we do get a lot of support from, uh, from the, from the charity themselves. Are you allowed to plug them or do you, uh, I'm allowed to, but I'm choosing.

Okay. Absolutely. Completely understandable.

Uh, look, it's all about risk, all about courtesy here. So, um, well, thank, thanks for checking in and, and thank you for letting me share that story. I don't, I don't just broadly advertise that story.

That's not one that I care to want to go into every day, you know? No, thanks Mark. Okay. So share my story then.

Yeah. Uh, I, I, I please, I would be honored, honestly, if I could share that. So I've had, uh, three, uh, suicide attempts in the past.

The first was when I was a child, um, around the age of 10, uh, 11 years old. Um, I spoke about in the previous podcast, I had a traumatic childhood and at that time I remember feeling, uh, that this was just going to be my life and I didn't want my life to always be, be like that. Um, and I can remember being up all night.

I couldn't sleep. Um, obviously as a child, my emotions aren't fully formed, uh, but there was a lot of worry and anxiety and I hadn't thought about suicide. I don't think I even knew the word suicide.

Uh, but this thought popped in my head that I needed to kind of like do something and go to sleep forever. And I can remember thinking about taking tablets. Now where that idea came from, I've got no idea.

I could have been influenced through media. I certainly can't remember the family or my parents ever talking about, uh, suicide, but for whatever reason that that thought was in my head. So when everyone else was asleep, I went downstairs and I found, uh, my mom's hay fever tablets.

Now I guess if I wanted to do a better job, I probably would have picked something a little bit stronger. So it was like over Benadryl basically. I think they, I mean, they may have even been allergy medication, right? Yeah.

Yeah. And you're 10. Yeah, I'm 10.

Yeah. Um, so I took that you got that you, that you got that far though, really like even is that you went to your mom's, like when everybody's, how did you, do you remember like kind of how you were going to do that? Or did you, do you remember the planning of that or the thought of that? There wasn't a plan that it was just this thought that came in my head and I just did it like pretty much there. And then, wow.

Um, and I, and I think for me, what's frightening about that and, and, and just going back to the previous podcast about this increase in child suicide is that during my attempts, when I was an adult, there's a massive degree of self-preservation that comes into a suicide attempts, but as a child, because we're not fully formed emotionally, physically, uh, I'm guessing that that's why that self-preservation wasn't kicking in for me. Um, and I'll talk a little bit later about, uh, hope being mixed in with self preservation. So I was completely in this mind that this is what I needed to do.

And I just didn't want to wake up. So I took the tablets and, um, went to sleep. And when I was asleep, I dreamt about my great nan who had passed away.

Uh, it was quite recently before that. And in the dream, it's very vivid. I remember it.

Uh, now she hugged me and she told me that everything was going to be okay. Uh, sometime later I woke up vomiting and I'd, uh, vomited the tablets up. I'd never told anyone about it.

Um, I felt pretty drowsy for the rest of the day. Um, but I remember feeling afterwards, this is, it's weird. I remember feeling that there was this sense of hope in the idea that I could have killed myself because that was one way that I could have control over a life that I didn't have any control over whatsoever.

So in a sense, it kind of empowered me. Um, and maybe this is childish thinking, um, but it empowered me to know that, you know, when everything else is out of control, I can control this to a certain degree. But I also think that's a very dangerous way for a child to think.

So if I may, you were saying like, I always have suicide in the back pocket, in my back pocket. If, if all else fails, I can, at least I know I can do this. I can control that.

Yeah. And I think that sent that set a bit of a precedent throughout the rest of my life. Unfortunately, for whatever you, you went through in your childhood, I am I'm so sorry, whatever it is.

Thanks, Mark. So, um, and then the second time, uh, in my late twenties. Um, so at this point, I've gone, I've gone through intensive counseling, uh, different forms of therapy for, for years.

Uh, and, uh, and I was on medication and I was hoping they were going to work and, and they didn't. Um, I got to a point where I was just really, really depressed. Uh, in my twenties, my friends were getting married.

Uh, my friends were in, you know, they were buying houses. I was living in a rented, uh, flat, uh, with, with my cat. Um, and, uh, and it's that sense of comparing, I was definitely comparing my life to other people.

And as a gay man, uh, there are loads, a lot of, uh, I guess, uh, I dunno, there's a stereotypical kind of like gay life and I didn't kind of like follow that. So there was a lot of, uh, internal pressure, uh, around that. Um, was there, is there some kind of structure that people assume, uh, in about a gay life or I I'm trying to come from a side of ignorance here.

Uh, cause I don't understand your culture specifically. Is there, was there something in that timeframe as well, in addition to your, the comparison? Um, I think it was more specifically around, uh, kind of like looking at, uh, other gay men and, uh, not, not, not seeing myself in them. Uh, not particularly wanting to go to gay bars and gay clubs.

Uh, I've always had a bit of a problem with, um, kind of like sectoring off, you know, members of the community. I understand the need for, you know, gay culture and gay clubs, but it just didn't, it just didn't fit in with me. Uh, and my gay friends seem to all be in relationships and, uh, and I wasn't.

Um, so I always, being gay was, I guess, you know, I had gay friends, they were my tribe, but I always felt a bit of an outsider. I didn't feel like, I didn't feel that I always, uh, fit into that. Part of that could be what happens during childhood because, uh, some of the abuse in childhood was sexual.

And as a gay man, that is hard to deal with. Uh, the fact that, yeah. I'm sorry.

I'm sorry for that. So yeah, getting back to the story. So it was around Christmas time.

Um, uh, of course my friends were all celebrating together for Christmas and, um, you know, I'm on my own. I can kind of smile about it now, but, um, and I remember my mom, she would, she'd always invite me around for Christmas or Boxing Day. And I, I refused, I just wasn't going to go.

And it was kind of like in the middle of my isolating myself, um, just cutting myself off from everyone. And it got to the point where, uh, my, I can remember once my stepdad, uh, would come around just to check on me because no one had heard from me. I had friends coming around and checking on me.

Uh, I didn't really want to see anyone. I wouldn't even have the electric on, uh, in the flat. I just wanted to be in complete darkness.

I was spending a lot of my time in bed. I also wasn't working at this point. So I guess this kind of added into the depression and exacerbated a little bit.

Yeah. Yeah. And, and I think through work.

So you were literally completely, you didn't pick up a, you didn't even reach out to pick up a phone or even answer a phone. Is that, is that the level at which, yeah, it got to that, uh, phone calls would go on answered. I'd unplug the phone.

Um, and I think when my stepdad came around to visit, it was because, um, I'd unplugged the phone. And so, yeah, mum couldn't get through to me. Uh, and it's not just about, for me, it wasn't just about cutting myself off from other people.

It was about protecting other people from myself because I knew if I was going to start having this conversation with other people, especially with loved ones, they would be burdened with, you know, with everything that I'm talking about. And so there is that degree as well. Um, you know, we talk about being a burden to other people, but there's also that protectiveness for other people.

It's not just a, it's not just a selfish burden, right? Yeah. I mean, I, and it's not misplaced, but it's misunderstood, right? That's, it's a confusion. Yeah.

Because we don't, we think it's this, but it really isn't. It's a It's a feel because we're being directed by misinformed emotions. Yeah.

And I, it would be my guess. I mean, you, you, yourself, myself, I'd say we're probably pretty sensitive gentlemen. Yeah.

Um, we probably would even internalize that even more, you know what I mean? Those feelings of protection and, and not burdening. Yeah. Yeah.

And then of course that, that gives rise to feelings of guilt and added pressure and. Yeah. And it, it snowballs for sure.

What a web we weave. Um, so it got to the point where I, um, I cut my wrists. Um, thankfully it didn't work.

Uh, but after that, that kind of served as the point that I had to get better and I did engage more with professionals. I forced myself out of my isolation and yeah, life was really good for, for a while. Uh, and I think although I'd had years of counseling and therapy beforehand, it's really important to find good, a good counselor or, or a good therapist.

You can have years of years of it, but it's not going to do anything if you don't have that connection with your counselor. So often after that attempt, I met this amazing woman called Christine and, um, yeah, she was, she helped me through a lot. Um, yeah.

And as much, if I may, as much as it is just a good quality counselor, cause good quality professionals can probably deal with every personality. Um, there is that one that suits your personality. Like if I went to someone different than the guy went to, and, and I'm happy to, his name is Jeff Danes.

Uh, he's a Brit actually, uh, G E O F F last name Danes, D as in David, A N as in Nancy E S. He works with Inspires NLP. They're out of Arizona. And, uh, I, you know, like I said, if it wasn't him, I don't know if I don't know if it would have helped.

He knew exactly. And it just, it connected. Right.

Yeah. Yeah. And also it's important that they have a sense of, well, that they're empathetic.

Not every counselor or therapist is empathetic. I've met some who it quite clearly are just in it for the money. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. How does that make you feel? I will write in my notebook and make it look like I am trying to help you.

Yeah, exactly. Sorry. It's kind of like everyone in the field, there are obviously there's apples in the bunch, right? Yeah.

So if you do get to a point where you are seeking that kind of professional help and you feel that you're being served by a textbook, it's probably a good idea to, to find someone else. Yeah. And to your point, like, if you don't feel a little trust right off the, like, there's that just initial connection.

Yeah. And I got lucky. I found it with the person on my first shot, but if that wasn't right, I still would have looked, but not everybody affords himself a second chance either.

Right. Like I tried, you know, you're already desperate, right? I tried, you know, keep trying, find your person. Yeah.

Yeah. Find your person. That's good.

And so my last story actually was quite recent. So it's in March of, of last year, I, my 20 year relationship had ended resulting in me losing my two dogs because I then had to work three jobs to keep a roof over my head. Uh, I was really stressed, uh, overworked.

I was depressed. I was chucking myself into rebound relationships and just my whole lifestyle really was pretty, pretty unhealthy. I was drinking a lot in the evening.

Um, and the thing with self-medication, you know, in whatever form it is, it, it, it does provide a temporary relief, but in the longterm, it completely fucks you up. Um, and it definitely exacerbated the, uh, depression. Um, so I was at one of my jobs and I just had a breakdown at the desk and I just felt that I couldn't function.

I'm at, the phone was ringing. I literally couldn't pick it up and, uh, and, and do my job. So my manager took me to one side.

Um, I told her a little of what was going on. She listened. She didn't judge me.

Uh, she's actually, her name's Penny. She's a really good friend. Uh, now I'm no longer with that company, but she asked me to take some time off and go and speak to my mum.

Now I did go straight from, from work to, uh, to my mum's. Um, I absolutely love my mum. Um, we had a really emotional chat.

We don't often have those kinds of emotional chats, but there was a lot that I was, uh, still keep keeping from her. Um, and there was a lot that I didn't tell my manager either, but just chatting, just having those initial chats really helped. Um, how did your friend recognize it or were you giving clear signals outside of the work or, um, I wasn't aware that I was giving a penny.

It wasn't a friend at the time. She was, she was my manager, although we were friendly as she was a manager, but, um, it was very clear that there was something not quite right. Uh, so, but what I didn't tell them was at that point, I actually had reached, uh, the severe, uh, level on that, on that scale that we spoke about last time.

So I had a suicide plan. I had a method. Um, I had the means on how to do it.

I'd written my suicide note and every day I knew that that evening was going to be the evening when I would do it. And this went on for about a week. Um, I'd wake up in the morning.

I'd be absolutely convinced that this would be the, uh, the day that I would do it. Uh, I can remember that one of my other jobs, I, I wouldn't say I became the life and soul, but I was definitely putting on a mask of, of happiness. And, uh, you know, we talk about helping respect about helping other people a little bit more.

There was a lot of that going on, uh, during that week. Uh, so in addition to that, you had a plan, you already, you already resolved this. So the burden probably felt lifted slightly.

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah.

There was a definite, a definite sense of relief. Uh, so typically my days would, I'd be at work until, uh, say nine 30 in the evening and I'd go home, I'd drink a lot, but then I would find myself on the phone to the Samaritans. I spoke about the Samaritans last time.

And the reason why I think that I was reaching out, uh, for that added support was that there was this inner conflicts going on. So I knew that I had this real strong desire to die, but there was a stronger desire for self-preservation. So that's why I knew that I had to speak to someone because if I didn't speak to someone, there was no way that I could, I would die basically.

Because you wouldn't, the self-preservation piece would be not supported then. Yeah. So basically you wouldn't have that counter weight.

Yeah. Yeah. And you know, we talk about emotional reality.

So I got to that point because my emotion, my emotional reality was completely fucked up. It was absolutely, I was absolutely convinced that if I died, I'd be releasing everyone from the burden of me that, that my death somehow would open up my friends and family to more love and compassion. Um, and just like thinking about that now, I can't quite grasp what that meaning was at the time, but it was almost like I knew I had to die, but I also knew that I had to convince myself why I had to die.

And for me dying, it was more about, yes, it was, it was about helping me with my own internal pain, but it was also about helping other people. Um, right. Yeah.

Okay. I, I, I completely understand what you're saying. It's, it's kind of parallels, you know, so many ways.

Yeah. But it also gives weight to the fact that we do, uh, everything is skewed when you're in that, when you're in that zone, things don't make sense. They, they seem to make sense at the time, but then when you come out of it and you're so thankful that you've come out of it, you realize actually what the, what the fuck was going on there.

Every once in a while, one plus one does feel like three, but it's, it's, it's really not ever three. Yeah. But broken brain equals broken choice.

I mean, we talk about even, you know, with, with substance abuse, right. Some many times the substance abuse is more of the masking of the, whatever that underlying pain or trauma is, but then that creates worse decision-making. So then that's what exacerbates it.

Right. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, you make it, you're making a decision, not from your, your same mind, I guess. And, and I can imagine, I mean, I felt it as well is like when the, when the, not the walls are closing in, but say that you get that singular focus and your periphery goes away.

All you see is that tunnel. You do not see any answer outside of that. No.

And that's, it's either how the brain works or what, however we process as humans, but that's a real thing, but that doesn't mean it's reality. It's just how it feels at the time. Yeah.

And like you said before, emotion aren't necessarily, emotions aren't necessarily reality. So just to, just to end that it got to the point where I knew that this certain evening would be the evening I, so I laid everything all out. I weirdly, I had a bath because I wanted my body to be clean when it was found.

But then just before I was going to do it, I was looking at my mobile phone and I was kind of like watching the clock tick by for the time. But I was also, I kind of realized now that my mobile phone was a bit of a lifeline. I was hoping that I'd get a sign that something would flash up on my phone to tell me not to do it again.

It's that kind of self-preservation, that hope that was overriding that feeling of wanting to die. And I actually got, I got two alerts. So I got an alert from Sky News.

It was a breaking news story about suicide. But, but in my way of thinking, that was a sign. Get the fuck out.

Sorry. Really? Yeah. But that for me at that, at that moment in time, that was a sign that I had to do it, you know, it was a very clear sign.

But then I received a message from someone on Facebook that I'd never really spoken to. It was like one of these random Facebook friends that maybe pop up in your suggested. And I can't remember when I befriended them.

It was probably quite a while before that. And they just sent a message saying, how are you doing? And that just clicked me out of it. It's all it needed, right? Yeah.

Yeah. And it's just going back to that. It's those small, it's those small things, you know, that, that was the sign that I needed.

There was someone there. Yeah. My, my sign was literally you're different.

Just the acknowledgement that once again, am I, I don't really fucking know. Do I feel it? Yeah. I feel it to your point.

What I feel, you know, perception becomes reality, right? Yeah. And I, you know, I've, I felt different. So how are you different? Well, with this other stuff that came in.

So, I mean, do you really want to know my labels right now? How about a, I'm a star seed from serious with empath, precognitive, empathic abilities. Wow. Yeah.

So I don't know what the fuck that means anymore, but, but that's, you know, like I said, that really opened up things for me with meeting this one person at the right time. Yeah. And that's just about someone taking that time, isn't it? And, you know, and that's, that, and that's what we've been talking about, taking time, just talking to someone and, and being real with them, being, being genuine with them as well.

Tony, I don't know you that well, but we have become vast friends. If you feel anything, you know what you feel, reach out, man. I'm here.

I don't always know, but if I, if I, if I feel you in my senses, I'll shoot something to you. All right. Cheers.

Thanks, Mark. I don't, and just to kind of counter, to counter that, that was last year, my life has made a dramatic change through a lot of hard work that I've put in. I'm at a much better place.

I feel that there's a lot of emotional distance from, from what happened there. Yes, I do know that I have that capacity. And at some point in the future, it could rear its head again.

But I also know that I've got the tools to, to make sure it doesn't get to that point. So from where I am, I consider that to be the lowest point. And I'm just not going to get to that point again.

Absolutely. And none, none of your loved ones would want you to be at that point ever. No, exactly.

So you, you would be greatly missed. I can't, I can't even imagine how many people, how many people's lives you touch with the work that you do. So, and also I would miss out on life, you know, and I think when you've grown life, damn it.

Well, yeah. But when you've gone through something like that, I don't know about you, but I, I, I have much more of an appreciation for life now. You know, even just the simple things like hearing birds in the, in the trees, if I'm walking to work.

Yeah, there's just, yeah, there's like a heightened sense of the, of the environment or just the world, right? Yeah. Everything's a little sharper. Like you, you hear, you hear and smell the smell of that rose or, you know, the rustling of a, of leaves on a tree or something.

Yeah. It's interesting. Well, thank you for sharing your stories.

I'm, you, you've obviously been and been through a lot. Yeah. I, you know, but, but then, but then haven't we all, you know, we've all got our stories.

And that's thing, you know, it's funny how relative that is as well. Right. I mean, the struggle of whether Harry is going to go to his grandfather's funeral with Megan or without, Oh, she's not coming.

Okay. Well, but you understand like the stress of that thought is myriad different from a child who's duct taped in a closet because it won't stop crying. Yeah.

You know what I mean? Like these are relative traumatic events to their, to their respective people. Right. So like sometimes what would seem very minuscule to one might be a large event to someone else.

Yeah. So it is, there is some compassion there when you say no judging, right. You, I think no judgment is kind of one of your themes.

Yeah, definitely. And thank you for sharing that because that that's big is wait, if I share this, are you going to make fun? Am I going to be made fun of ridiculed? Why would I share this with you? Yeah. And sometimes you might consider your own issues or your own problems to be insignificant.

Well, you know, like you've just said, they're not insignificant to you. So it's important that if you are speaking to someone, you know, if you're, if you are helping someone through to not minimize their problems or what they're going through. Yeah.

On that note, sir, I think, I think we've had enough tears for today, but in a, but I think we've had some great progress as well. Yeah. Yeah.

I think it's been a really good chat. Thanks Mark. Thank you so much.

And thank you for sharing and, you know, apologies in general for what you went through. Obviously I know personally, I couldn't do anything, but I'm just sorry for the situations that you were put in. Cheers.

Thanks a lot. To that point, anyone listening to this, I'm not a professional, but if you need an ear, I've got two of them. If you need a shoulder, I got two.

So my Twitter is at knocked con K N O C K E D C O N. Feel free to DM me or send me, send me a message at, at knocked con me. I, you know, I'll listen. I'll give time that I have when I have it.

So, and know that you will, someone will miss you. That's that. Anything else? I don't know.

I'm kind of a loss there. No, I think, I mean, you can, you can't say enough really, Mark. I mean, the fact that you want to listen and the fact that, you know, people are going to be missed a really important messages to get out there.

And just on the same kind of theme, although my Twitter handle is Michael Jackson related, you don't just have to get in contact with me regarding the king of pop. So if you want to reach out, it's MJ news digest at twitter.com. Thank you. Thank you.

Feel free. And Tony, if someone does come to me, I hope that I might be able to bounce some ideas off of you as well, because you've, thank you for bringing this to, or just for us to talk about. It's one of, I mean, this is one of the main reasons I wanted to start the podcast in the first place.

I think in my first episode, it's about the connection, right? There are 7.7 billion people out there and some people feel like they're only 1% of that. Right. But even if you're 1% of 1%, that's still like 770,000 people.

There's somebody out there. There's somebody with whom you can connect. Yeah.

Just know that, feel that. And I think if you, if you just have that kind of comfort understanding that there is, that you will align yourself to find that person or the energy, you know what I mean? That you might find that person through that thought process. Yeah.

It's about putting that thought out there, isn't it? It really is. I mean, there's some manifestation involved here. Yeah.

Thought transfers to energy. Thought is energy. Amen.

And that energy will come back. Any closing thoughts about Alex or Mark or gosh, darn it's Chris, correct? Yeah. No, I don't have any, any closing thoughts about them, but I'm sure I'll be thinking about them quite a bit this evening.

Yeah. I'll be thinking about them a lot and I'll be thinking about Jay. You're missed my friend.

Tony, I love you, man. I love you too, Mark. And thanks so much for this opportunity and also for sharing your stories.

Thank you. If there, if there's anything, you know, if you, if you ever want to reach out, you have my information, my friend. Okay.

And vice versa. All right. This has been another episode of Not Conscious, everyone.

Thank you so much for joining us, Tony. Closing words, my friend, you always have something inspirational to say. Just to repeat from last time, be kind to yourself, be kind to other people, make time for other people, but also make time for yourself as well.

We're all so busy these days, but it's really important just to have some me time every now and again, and check in with yourself, do a bit of self inventory. And yeah, gain a little bit more insight into yourself and other people. Perfect.

Couldn't have said it better. Thank you again, sir. Everyone have yourself a blessed day.

Take care.