Transcript of our conversation with Tony Leepeters 12/20/2020

(0:19) Welcome, everybody, to Knocked Conscious. Chris, how are you doing, buddy? (0:22) Good, sir. Good morning, good afternoon, good evening.

How are you? (0:24) I am doing well. I am very excited today. (0:27) Really? (0:28) Yes.

(0:29) Stop it. (0:29) Look at my nipples. (0:31) Sicko.

(0:32) We're very excited. We have a gentleman named Tony. (0:35) Tony.

(0:35) Tell us where he's from, sir. (0:37) Tony Bag of Donuts? (0:38) Tony Bag of Donuts. (0:38) Tony Rack of Lamb? (0:40) Britannia.

(0:40) Oh. Tony from MJ News Digest? (0:43) Yes. (0:44) And, Mark, how did we meet Tony? (0:46) Well, how we met Tony is we were very fortunate to have a conversation with Taj Jackson, Michael (0:51) Jackson's nephew.

(0:52) Yes. (0:52) And it was a very great conversation. And somehow, I think it got onto Tony's radar (0:58) because next thing you know, you and I were showcased on his YouTube channel.

(1:01) Crazy. (1:02) And then we reached out, of course, and then we started a bromance. (1:06) You started a bromance.

(1:07) Yes. (1:07) I'm kind of like the third wheel. Which is okay.

I accept that role. (1:11) You're like the third, fourth, and fifth wheel. (1:13) All the wheels.

(1:14) You're all the wheels. (1:14) Okay. (1:15) But our bromance, first of all, we wanted to have him on because you and I both know (1:21) that having a person with a British accent instantaneously legitimizes a podcast.

(1:25) Oh, yeah. It's super smart. (1:26) So we're really happy about that.

(1:28) Yes. (1:28) Tony, are you over there? (1:30) I'm here. Yes.

How are you? Is my English accent good enough for you? (1:36) We love it. We're absolutely in love with it. How are you, sir? (1:40) I'm very well.

(1:42) Awesome. Well, this is the first time we've ever spoken. So welcome to our show.

We were (1:48) so honored that we had been on yours a couple of times. So thank you for showcasing us. (1:53) Thank you so much for inviting me.

I'm equally as honored to be here. You guys are great. (1:58) So tell us a little bit about your channel and your podcast.

(2:04) Well, it's called MJ News Digest, and I cover all the latest Michael Jackson news. (2:11) How is it you came about doing that as your passion or your interest? (2:17) I guess no one else was really doing it at the time. And it was just after Leaving Neverland (2:21) came out.

So there was a lot of bullshit about Michael Jackson in the press and on (2:26) the Internet. The press was slaughtering his legacy. And I kind of wanted to do something (2:31) about that in whichever little way that I could.

(2:36) Yeah, I feel like you've done such a great job because I'm one of those people, quote (2:40) unquote, guilty of having a really strong anti-Michael opinion coming out of Neverland, (2:45) right? The HBO documentary. And then I got in touch with Jess Garcia, of course, whom (2:50) we both know, and she showed me Square One on Amazon and completely changed my I mean, (2:57) it just the facts can't be denied. Yeah.

(3:02) So tell us a little bit about your channel, what what you cover beside, you know, what (3:06) about MJ you cover or how you get your articles and how you get your information? (3:11) Oh, well, that's a secret. I can't I can't. What can you tell us? (3:15) OK, that's a that's a good secret.

So what's one what's one of those interesting things (3:19) that you've ever pulled out information wise about Michael or about the whole the whole (3:25) thing, the the the, you know, the media against him and the people that are for him and everything? (3:31) What's one of the most interesting subjects you found? (3:34) Well, I think what's interesting is seeing how the press are. The negative biases is (3:39) definitely changing and there's more positive articles about Michael Jackson at the moment, (3:44) which is good. But we have leaving Neverland to coming around the corner.

(3:47) So it's all going to kick off again, I think. So is that is that going to again be on HBO? (3:53) No idea. No idea.

But yeah, the director is was filming in America recently. (3:59) Is it the same guy? Yes. Yeah.

And the same fuckwits, Wade and (4:03) James. Do you want to dox that son of a bitch? (4:06) Do I want to what? Do you want to dox that son of a bitch? Just give us this guy's name. (4:11) Who? The director? Yes.

I'm not. No, I'm not sharing his name. (4:14) OK.

Did you say fuckwits? Yes. I do. Yes.

I guess I approve that so hard. And that's (4:23) my new favorite expression. Oh, my goodness.

Fuckwit sounds way better than the other one (4:28) because I can't say the R word. Oh, what a fuckwit. I like fuckwit.

I do. I do, too. (4:34) I love it.

What's the what's the R word? The R word is it starts with a re and ends (4:40) with. Four other letters that I can't say, OK, I'm going to say it, it's retarded, which (4:46) is in America, that's no longer appropriate. Yes, it's no longer approved and it's not.

(4:51) It's funny because we don't mean it the way in a derogatory man. No, we mean it as a way (4:56) of like, hey, that was really dumb. Don't do that again.

Yeah. But people take it too (5:00) seriously and it is what it is. You know that.

So now it's fuckwit. I like it. It's going (5:05) to be fuckwitted, fuckwitting, etc.

So I listened to your latest episode. I think it was released (5:14) on December 16th. And we're Americans, so we say like what, where and not like what (5:21) and where.

I don't say that, Dwight. What? Where? I do. I do.

I heard I heard you say (5:28) HBO, and I thought that was amazing. How do you say HBO? HBO? Just H, like just without (5:34) the part, we just go HBO. But I found that interesting.

It's just a verbal thing that (5:39) I like to discuss. So, Tony, you're on with us. It's your time.

You want to talk about (5:44) some crazy stuff. There's some crazy shit going on in Europe right now and in well, (5:48) in Britain, in the UK specifically, right? Yes. With Covid.

Yes. Tell us about it. Well, (5:55) Boris Johnson, I guess you've heard of him.

He's our esteemed leader. Yeah. Esteemed leader.

(6:00) I like that. Well, both him and his gaggle of cunts have cancelled Christmas effectively for (6:07) the whole of UK. And I'm really pissed off about it.

It effectively means that on Christmas Day, (6:13) I was going to spend the afternoon with a friend. I can't do that because I'm not allowed by law to (6:17) leave my home. She can't come over to mine.

On Boxing Day, I was going to spend the afternoon (6:22) with a hot guy, but I can't do that because he's in tier two, I'm in tier four, and tier four and (6:27) tier two aren't allowed to mix. So, fuck off, Boris. I'm really pissed off about it.

(6:33) Yeah. We need to know about this tier thing. What's a tier? (6:35) Okay.

So, Boris announced maybe about six months ago that there was going to be, or maybe three (6:41) months ago, three tiers. So, tier one, tier two, tier three, and tier three was the highest level. (6:47) So, shops would still be open.

You could still go to work if it was an essential job, if you're an (6:52) essential key worker, and you could still invite one other person to your home and kind of mingle (6:59) with six others outside. But at four o'clock yesterday, he announced tier four, which just (7:06) locks everyone in London and the Southeast down. So, it means that we can't spend Christmas with (7:12) our loved ones.

And is that on Christmas and Boxing Day, or before that? (7:18) That's from four o'clock yesterday for the next 14 days. Although he is giving Christmas Day off, (7:25) he's giving COVID Christmas Day off for everyone in tier one, two, and three, but not tier four. (7:30) So, COVID doesn't have to do any work on Christmas Day? (7:33) No.

COVID isn't allowed to kill anyone on Christmas Day. (7:36) Okay. That's good to know.

So, what if you have to go get food? Are you allowed to leave? (7:42) Yeah. I can buy essential items. (7:45) Okay.

But you can't go to a gathering. You can go get, hey, I need some spinach. That's okay.

(7:52) That's essential. Yeah, that's okay. But in the UK, there are no shops open on Christmas Day.

(7:58) So, today's the 20th of December. On the 23rd, if you need gin, you're allowed to buy that. (8:05) Yes.

(8:05) Because that's essential in my book. (8:07) Yes, it is. (8:08) Okay.

(8:09) Excellent. (8:10) But not on Christmas. (8:11) I can trump that because Pennsylvania... I don't know if you're familiar with this, Tony, but (8:16) in the United States, some of the states themselves are the actual purveyors of alcohol, (8:21) hard liquor, for example.

In Arizona, where we live, we can buy booze at a supermarket, (8:27) but in Pennsylvania, it's actually at a state store. (8:32) Pennsylvania is the largest single purchaser of alcohol in the United States. And what it was, (8:37) they actually shut down alcohol sales for a day or two before Thanksgiving, (8:44) so people wouldn't get all crazy.

(8:46) Not approved. (8:47) That's when you need it most, when your aunt comes to town and annoys the shit out of you. (8:51) So, you have different tiers per the region now? So, each region is now broken into (8:56) its severity level? Or how does that work with the tier two mixing with a tier four? (9:00) It sounds almost like segregation.

(9:02) Well, it is. We're not allowed to mix. So, for example, Worthing and Brighton, I think they're (9:08) tier two.

Hastings and East Sussex and London and the rest of the Southeast are tier four. (9:15) Yeah. I mean, I don't know where the border is.

I don't even know if there's army on the border to (9:20) kill us all if we try to cross over, but it's just absolutely crazy. (9:25) Are they doing car checks and things like that? (9:28) I haven't seen any locally, but I've seen Facebook videos. Whether they're true or not, (9:33) I don't know.

(9:34) Oh, my gosh. So, what are your feelings about this? I mean, you live there. How impacted are (9:38) you personally and just as a citizen of the UK, of a free society? (9:45) Well, it doesn't feel like a free society, and I think that's where we're heading, unfortunately.

(9:50) Yeah. I have a little bit of a weird opinion because I'm a conspiracy theorist. (9:55) Oh, I love a good conspiracy.

(9:57) Oh, shit. (9:58) You know, I'll be honest. I feel like they're pushing us to our brink to see where we'll (10:03) finally push back, if that makes sense.

Just to see how far they can do it for next time. (10:10) And I know that sounds very controlling or whatnot, but it feels that way to me. (10:15) This does feel like it's a prelude to something a lot bigger.

It's kind of like a dress rehearsal. (10:21) Yeah. It's interesting.

And I'm curious how that works. So, (10:25) my understanding is, is your main election next year? (10:29) I've got no idea. (10:30) Oh, okay.

I wasn't sure because I thought it was a year apart, right? Because we watched something (10:35) about... (10:35) Yeah. UK, it's odd years, correct? (10:38) I don't know. Isn't that awful? (10:40) Oh, no, not every year.

(10:42) I kind of grew up in a non-political family, and I was kind of led to believe not to (10:46) follow politics. And I kind of haven't. But as an adult, recently, I've started to (10:53) follow it briefly.

But yeah, I don't really know about elections. Sometimes I vote, sometimes I (10:58) don't. It's terrible.

(10:59) I wish I didn't. (11:00) I applaud that. (11:01) I wish I was like you, sir, because that is awesome.

(11:04) Yeah. I mean, we can't get away from having a conversation about car oil, (11:09) motor oil, without it becoming political. (11:11) It's terrible.

(11:13) You know? (11:13) So, regarding what you're saying with the tears and not being able to see friends, et cetera, (11:21) what's the people that you interact with and the people in your town, in your city, (11:27) what's their feeling? What's the mood of the people? (11:30) They're pissed off. We've all had enough, to be honest. This has been going on since (11:34) March.

We had a national lockdown. And then after that, we kind of went into these tears. (11:40) That didn't really work.

Then we had another lockdown, which didn't work. (11:44) And now we're back onto these tears again. (11:47) So, what's the... (11:48) Sorry, I kind of get the idea that the vaccine was rolled out in the UK.

(11:52) I think it was the first country in the world to get this vaccine, the saviour of everybody. (11:57) And I kind of feel that not enough people are taking the vaccine. (12:01) And so now they're saying there's a new strain of COVID that's been identified in the UK.

(12:07) It's probably a lot more deadly, but the vaccine is still going to work. (12:10) So it kind of feels that this tier four, this Christmas lockdown, (12:13) is to try to get us to have this vaccine. (12:17) Yeah, I've got a little... We've got some feelings on that.

(12:20) What are your thoughts on the vaccine itself? Are you a little sceptical of (12:23) how quickly it came out or how well people collaborated to make these things? (12:29) Yeah, I am suspicious about it. I'm not anti-vax. I'm more pro-common sense, I think.

(12:36) I have been offered the vaccine. I work in health and social care, and I've refused to have it (12:41) until they make it mandatory. And then they're going to have a fight on their hands for me to (12:45) have it.

I love pro-common sense. (12:48) Thank you. (12:49) That's an amazing expression.

(12:51) We've got fuck wit and pro-common sense. (12:54) I have to write these down. (12:55) Yeah, no anti-vax, but pro-common sense.

(12:57) Yes. (12:58) Smart to me. (12:58) Yes.

(12:59) So you work in the healthcare field, not to get too specific, because I'm not to share too much of (13:04) your personal stuff, but in what capacity would you say you work in healthcare? Do you work with (13:09) patients or do you work in an administrative role? (13:13) Well, it's health and social care, so it's mental health. (13:17) Oh, mental health. Okay.

So tell us a little bit about that. How did you get into mental (13:21) health? I mean, it sounds like for being a non-political person, you seem to have a lot of (13:29) amazing... You're being a champion for a lot of people that are being, I don't know, overlooked, (13:35) stepped down on or disregarded. (13:38) As in working in mental health? (13:40) Yes, sir.

(13:41) Yeah, yeah. I guess that's true. So I started in mental health in 2011.

I have two daughters, (13:49) and one of my daughters, we're estranged, but one of my daughters came to live with me for a while, (13:53) and I didn't realize at the time that she had mental health issues, and I was really unequipped (13:58) to deal with those. I had my own kind of mental health issues, but they weren't diagnosed at that (14:04) time. So when she went back to her home after staying with me, I decided I wanted to work in (14:11) mental health.

I couldn't help her, but maybe I can help someone else. So yeah, so I started in (14:17) mental health in a residential home. It wasn't a care home.

It's more about supporting people to (14:23) gain their independence and move on into the community. From there, I became a manager of a (14:30) supported accommodation mental health project. I then left there to set myself up as a life coach, (14:36) but I'm now going back into mental health management, and I'm really excited about it.

(14:42) I can't wait. (14:44) Well, congratulations. Did you already take a position, or are you interviewing, (14:48) or how's that working? (14:49) Yeah, so yeah, I got the position.

The interview was really bad. It was the worst interview, (14:54) honestly, in the world, but somehow I got the job, and I start next year. I'm really, (14:59) really looking forward to it.

(15:00) Congratulations. (15:01) That's amazing. (15:02) Yeah.

Do you want to share the company or anything (15:04) about that so that everyone knows to come to Tony to get some help? (15:09) No. They don't like swear words. (15:14) Oh, fair enough.

Okay, we got you. (15:17) So how does a fuckwit like yourself, how do you censor yourself in front of people now? (15:24) Did you just call me a fuckwit? (15:26) No, I would never do that, sir. (15:28) Beep.

(15:29) That's your fault. You gave us the word. (15:34) So is there anything else you want to get off your chest about the COVID, (15:37) or anything else you want to share about anything about yourself, or how you got to where you're at? (15:43) Just where do you think this is going to end? What is COVID all about? (15:47) What's the end goal? What do you think is the end goal for this? (15:53) Do you really want my opinion? (15:55) Yeah, sure.

Here we go. Conspiracy theories. (15:57) Chris, would you like to share yours first? Do you have an opinion about- (15:59) Sure, I'll go.

I think it's all about fear, and control, and power, and manipulation. (16:07) But to what end, though? (16:13) I don't know. That is the key question.

And I don't know what the end goal is. (16:23) And perhaps Mark is right to see how far the powers that be, whether it be a government, (16:28) whether it's the British government, the US government, whether Chinese government, (16:34) whatever, or whether it's the pharmaceutical companies, or a conglomeration of many, (16:41) whether it's those as well, and to see how much control they can exert on the world population. (16:49) I don't know the end goal.

Maybe it is to give us the vaccine, which people are saying (16:58) are not exactly good for you. I don't know. (17:06) Anything else, Chris? (17:08) B, or subsection 2, I refuse to live my life in fear.

(17:13) Excellent, excellent. (17:14) I've said that since March 16th, when I started working from home, that I continue to golf (17:22) frequently. I do wear my mask where I have to because it is a city ordinance, (17:27) depending upon what city I'm in.

We live in a major metropolitan area, and there's many (17:33) suburbs that are attached. So one city has Ordinance A, and one city has Ordinance B, (17:38) something to that effect. So where I have to wear my mask, I do.

I don't want to, (17:44) but I do. But I refuse to. I see my friends.

And if I get COVID, I get COVID. (17:52) And I think I had the swine flu in 2009, and it sucked. And I was down for seven days on the (18:01) couch, and it was horrible.

But I'm going to be OK. And I refuse to live my life in fear. (18:09) Do you know anyone who's had COVID? (18:14) Yes.

(18:15) We both have, I think. My direct family back home in Philadelphia, (18:20) my niece. There's three generations living in one household right now.

My niece, my brother, (18:26) and my parents. And my niece was diagnosed with it. My dad was deathly ill over Thanksgiving.

I (18:32) think that's what it was. And my mom just got over being ill. And she said she would take 10 steps (18:38) and then feel completely wiped.

I have a feeling she got as well, considering the niece was (18:42) diagnosed as well. My parents are in their 70s, high 70s and low 80s. (18:47) So what's the testing regime over there? Are you tested frequently? Or (18:51) it doesn't sound like you are.

(18:53) It's completely up to you, unless you're- (18:56) Not at all, actually. (18:57) Well, unless your job mandates it. My job does not.

So I've never been tested, (19:02) because there's no reason for me to be tested. (19:05) How's the testing in the UK? Tell us about that. (19:06) That's a better question.

(19:07) That sounds really interesting, because we don't have it unless you go in voluntarily or- (19:12) Or you have to. (19:12) Or you have to. (19:14) Yeah, it's pretty much the same here.

I'm not sure if we can go in voluntarily, (19:18) but if you're an essential worker or you work in healthcare, (19:22) then you get the test and we're tested weekly. (19:26) There are testing facilities that have opened up all around the country. (19:30) I'm not quite sure how they work.

But interestingly, there's loads of videos and photos (19:36) of these test centres just being desolate. There's no one attending to them. So I don't know.

(19:43) But I do also know of people that have stuck the test in a pomegranate (19:48) and they received a positive result. So the whole thing is just bizarre. (19:54) I've heard of that as well.

I've heard of somebody tested a mango and tested positive. (20:00) I've heard of somebody that a nurse sent a test back unopened and it came back positive. (20:08) Wow.

(20:09) And the nurse told this to a friend of mine. So this is secondhand. This is not like, (20:16) oh, I read it on 47 websites that was so far down a rabbit hole on the cyber interwebs, right? (20:21) This was a good friend of mine was told this by a registered nurse.

(20:26) Wow. (20:27) So how much validity does that have? (20:32) And how are you not into conspiracies, Chris, if you know this kind of stuff? (20:36) Well, I am because it's Mark's fault. (20:41) Common sense.

(20:42) Yes, I'm pro-common sense. (20:43) We're pro-common sense. (20:44) So and Mark and I, I questioned everything since I was a kid.

And that's the problem is that, (20:51) but I was squashed like, hey, why is the sky do this? Don't ask that question. Well, (20:57) why can't I ask that question? So of course, but it has to have logic to it, right? It has to be (21:03) okay, well, why is this? Okay, well, then why is that? So it has to be, there has to be some logic. (21:10) And then when I heard the mango thing, and then now you say pomegranate, I mean, (21:14) it's at this point, pick a fruit, you know? (21:18) That's amazing.

So if I may, it's my opinion that I'll, Tony, do you really want me to start at (21:27) the beginning of the Wuhan and everything, just where my mind is, as common sense as it can be? (21:33) How much time do you have, Tony? (21:35) I have a nice sprinkle of a common sense with a little conspiracy. (21:38) Oh, God. (21:39) So it's my opinion that the virus was being examined and studied at this really shoddy (21:50) biochemical thing in Wuhan.

(21:52) Right. (21:52) Because they had really bad ratings before. They had cleanliness issues and- (21:58) Like on Yelp, they had thumbs down and stuff like that? (21:59) In China Yelp, yes.

(22:00) Oh, China Yelp. (22:03) On Yelp, they had thumbs down. So what happens is when you study these types of things, (22:08) and I don't know if you're familiar with a gentleman named Brett Weinstein, (22:11) but he's actually a bio, he's the guy up in Oregon that was Evergreen College, (22:16) or it was an Evergreen College thing with some social justice stuff, (22:19) maybe about five years ago, he was part of that.

(22:22) But he's a very intelligent man, and it's his opinion, and I echo it, (22:27) that they were working with it and testing it, because they do that. (22:30) We do have bio labs. We have a CDC in Atlanta that deals with all these nasty things.

(22:37) And I think they got it to the point- (22:39) Center for Disease Control. (22:41) Thank you. Center for Disease Control, the CDC in the United States.

(22:45) I think they had advanced it to where it could go from Passover to humans from animal, (22:52) and then it got out. I don't think it was malicious, (22:55) but I do think it was manipulated, if that makes sense. (22:58) Okay.

(22:58) So that's my opinion on how it got out. (23:01) After that, though, remember 100 years ago, we had the Spanish flu, right? (23:05) But we didn't have technology like we do today with all the internet and all that stuff. (23:09) So that was more of a management thing.

What, 50% of people died, was it? (23:13) Or 33%? (23:14) 33%. (23:14) It was a huge number, right? (23:16) Well, it's my opinion that this happened. However, (23:19) now people are looking to take advantage of it as it's happened.

(23:23) I don't think they created it to start manipulating, (23:26) but I think they're taking advantage of it being what it is, right? (23:30) It's a brilliant opportunity to control a whole species of people. (23:35) That's what's happening. (23:36) Yeah, it's like a thought experiment.

It does feel that way. (23:39) And in the UK, have you talked about removing currency (23:45) and going to a digital form only? (23:47) Have you discussed that at all? (23:49) Yeah, there has been some discussion. (23:51) And like locally in shops, especially during the first lockdown, (23:54) there were signs saying that the vendors wouldn't take cash, (23:57) would only take like chip and pin.

(24:00) I don't know if you have that in America or like the card. (24:03) We do, yes. (24:04) And when you say, Mark, I have a question about your question.

(24:08) When you say digital, do you mean no credit cards as well, (24:12) like pay with your phone? (24:13) Yes. (24:14) Or what do you mean? (24:15) So from what I've read, some other things about our government (24:19) and what we're seeing is we're now supposedly have a digital wallet (24:24) associated with our social security number. (24:26) Oh my God, for real? (24:28) What they're stating is that the currency is physical, right? (24:32) So you get germs on the money and then you hand the money off.

(24:35) Right. (24:35) They're saying the claim they, I'm sorry, I hate the they and them. (24:40) You mean the aliens? (24:41) The claim is that the money can spread germs.

(24:44) So let's get rid of money. (24:46) However, how do you get money then? (24:49) It would have to be a centralized place. (24:51) It's now married to your social security number.

(24:53) You are now indebted to the government because they will have all of your money. (24:56) All of your funds. (24:57) You could pay with a debit or credit card? (25:00) Or is it? (25:01) I would think it's all through a phone system and you could have a credit system.

(25:04) So wait a minute, is it cashless or is it? (25:08) It's cashless. (25:09) So you would still use a debit and credit card tied to your own bank account? (25:15) Or is it a centralized one bank? (25:18) Well, for the actual payments, (25:20) everything's going to be married to your social security number. (25:23) That's the general goal.

(25:25) Okay, that's probably down the line though. (25:27) Right. (25:27) But that's dangerous, right? (25:29) But the first step is to get go cashless.

(25:31) Yeah. (25:31) Tony, what are your thoughts on something? (25:32) We're already going that way. (25:33) Go ahead, Tony.

(25:35) What is your thought on that? (25:36) It kind of sounds like we're heading towards what's going on in China with their, (25:39) is it the social credit system? (25:41) Yeah. (25:42) I'm not aware. (25:43) What is that? (25:45) Basically, if you kind of like behave, you're allowed certain access to areas.

(25:50) If you don't behave, then you can't go to certain shops and things like that. (25:53) Right. (25:54) Sorry.

(25:55) Go ahead, Tony. (25:56) Sorry. (25:57) It just kind of sounds very similar.

(26:00) Or it kind of sounds like we're heading towards that. (26:02) In the UK, I saw yesterday, the government proposing to bring out, there's a bill that's (26:06) gone through health passports. (26:09) So on this health passport for all the citizens, it will say whether we've had a vaccination.

(26:14) And if we haven't, we won't be allowed into certain sports arenas or concert venues. (26:20) Yeah. (26:20) That sounds just a little scary to me.

(26:22) Yeah, it is. (26:23) So with that digital wallet thing, it's the same thing. (26:25) It's your ultimate way of control.

(26:27) The United States has a very, it's very interesting because there's a lot of cash system. (26:33) A lot of people work under the table still in the United States, or they're trying to (26:37) make ends meet. (26:37) Right.

(26:37) And they work a side job. (26:39) Those things would be eliminated if we go to a digital system because cash will no longer (26:43) be a thing. (26:45) Right.

(26:46) How the heck could we possibly not, you know, it's ultimate control because all they do (26:52) is shut off your money. (26:54) Right. (26:54) Or they shut off your ability.

(26:56) To your point, you know, you can't go here or there if you don't have X, Y, or Z. (27:00) Yeah. (27:00) It's lack of freedom, isn't it? (27:01) Complete lack of freedom. (27:02) Sounds like a horrible Tom Cruise movie.

(27:04) It does. (27:05) This feels like an end of the world sci-fi movie, but we're in it. (27:09) It's like majority report.

(27:11) Not minority, but majority report. (27:14) Yeah. (27:14) And it is a little scary.

(27:15) So Tony, how do you combat that in the UK? (27:18) Because it sounds like the UK is a little more, I mean, it's a smaller landmass for (27:22) sure. (27:22) So I'm wondering if it's just a little easier to manage possibly than something like United (27:26) States. (27:27) Plus our philosophical word, gun toters and freedoms and.

(27:31) You can't see Mark with his fingers in the air. (27:33) I did finger guns. (27:34) Like a cartoon character from the 1950s, Yosemite Sam.

(27:40) So what's the next step for the UK in this sense? (27:45) Is it rallies? (27:45) I would hope so. (27:47) I would hope that we start a revolution. (27:50) I think that's what's needed.

(27:52) The government just aren't managing whatever is going on. (27:55) They're making a right fucking pig's ear of it. (27:57) And unfortunately, it's all of us that are suffering.

(28:00) We had the health secretary on Good Morning Britain. (28:03) It's a morning breakfast show. (28:05) Fake crying because someone was receiving the first vaccination.

(28:08) It's on YouTube. (28:09) It's like, what is that all about? (28:11) Fake crying? (28:12) Fake crying. (28:13) Yeah.

(28:13) Yeah. (28:13) Check it out. (28:14) His name is Matt Hancock on Good Morning Britain.

(28:17) So he was crying, fake crying because somebody was getting the vaccine? (28:21) Yeah. (28:22) So he was like crying because he was so relieved that the vaccine was out. (28:26) Oh, like happy tears.

(28:28) Yeah, but it was fake. (28:30) It was fake. (28:30) Okay.

(28:31) Now I know I got you. (28:32) Okay. (28:33) Yeah.

(28:33) I just pulled up Matt Hancock as we're speaking. (28:36) We'll go down that rabbit hole. (28:37) Maybe we'll do it.

(28:38) We won't. (28:39) So Tony, did you really think the podcast would be about this crap? (28:42) No. (28:46) Hey, let me tell you something.

(28:47) It's a conspiracy. (28:49) It's funny. (28:50) I had a gentleman named Daniel on one of the early episodes, and it was right out of George (28:55) Floyd.

(28:55) And he's a half Jamaican. (28:58) He's a biracial gentleman that lives in the UK. (29:01) Right.

(29:01) And it was the same thing. (29:03) We were thinking about, hey, let's have this fun chat. (29:05) And it got so serious because, you know, right before we got there.

(29:09) That's what you guys do really well, though. (29:11) You can have serious chats, but keep it fun as well. (29:15) Yeah.

(29:15) Well, thank you for that. (29:16) You know, we actually love your content. (29:19) How do you make it so presentable and so tight and so beautiful when you present the information (29:26) to us? (29:27) I really feel like this is a real bromance, isn't it? (29:30) You're blowing a lot of steam up my ass.

(29:32) This is great. (29:32) This is not a joke. (29:33) He's really good at it, too.

(29:34) I've been watching. (29:35) I watch them, and I trust me. (29:37) Let me put it this way.

(29:38) We just started going back on video, and I forgot to hit the microphone on button. (29:43) So we have two hours of us video with quiet. (29:46) I've done that.

(29:47) And it's basically like, yeah, because I don't know what I'm doing. (29:52) But you've got it. (29:52) I keep telling him we need a checklist, but he doesn't want to have a checklist for the (29:55) checklist.

(29:56) Oh, OK. (29:57) And he shakes his head no at me. (30:00) I mean, you've got a really good setup.

(30:02) Chris was showing me the Instagram, your Instagram earlier. (30:05) My setup, it's just a microphone and a laptop. (30:07) That's all it is.

(30:09) You're like, how do you. (30:10) Yeah, but it does. (30:12) It's all synced up with the video.

(30:14) I'm just blown away by that because I have zero that. (30:16) Well, and obviously, Tony, your your video editing skills are there. (30:22) They look top notch.

(30:23) They're pretty non-existent. (30:25) So I just I. (30:26) Wow. (30:26) I screen grab the news stories and then edit them in the video editor and then just record (30:32) the vocals over the top of it.

(30:33) There's no script. (30:34) I just talk, you know, as I say. (30:36) But it flows very well.

(30:38) Now I'm blowing sunshine up your ass. (30:40) Sorry. (30:41) Fuck this.

(30:42) See what I learned from Mark. (30:43) This is not cool. (30:44) Anyway, I guess the point is I was I was impressed with your videos.

(30:47) That's all. (30:48) Thank you very much. (30:49) Thank you.

(30:50) You're welcome. (30:50) Thank you. (30:50) And that's why I mean, I want to have you on because we're I'm intrigued with how how did (30:54) how did Michael Jackson become the biggest, like one of the more focused? (30:58) Were you always a fan? (30:59) Oh, yeah, OK, because we we just spoke about our ages and we're within all of us are within (31:05) three years of each other.

(31:06) Yeah. (31:07) Wow. (31:08) So you're in the middle.

(31:10) I'm the youngest and Chris is the oldest. (31:12) Yeah. (31:12) Great.

(31:12) Thanks. (31:13) But youngest doesn't mean anything, really, in this case, because we're like, yeah, maturity (31:16) level of a nine year old between the three of us, it appears. (31:21) So, yeah.

(31:22) When did I get into MJ when I was about six, I guess my mom let me play with an old record (31:28) player and she shared some of our vinyls, which were J5, Jackson Five. (31:32) And yeah, I really liked those and then got into the Thriller album and it just went from (31:36) there. (31:37) And I must admit, at one point, especially as a teenager, I absolutely idolized Michael (31:41) Jackson.

(31:42) But I think as you get a little bit older, you kind of realize, you know, I appreciate (31:47) him more rather than idolize. (31:49) You know, he did make mistakes and there are questions around his life, but he did leave (31:55) he did lead a very unique life. (31:58) And I don't think we can judge.

(31:59) You know, we weren't in his in his shoes, so to speak. (32:02) So we can't judge the decisions that he made. (32:06) But yeah, I think he was an amazing man and I will continue to highlight the press bias (32:12) against him.

(32:13) Yeah. (32:14) And I find that interesting, too, because to your point, like the idolizing thing, right? (32:18) Everyone's fallible. (32:20) So we've all made mistakes.

(32:21) It's hard. (32:22) It's a very big challenge to idolize someone because in that way, then they're perfect. (32:26) Yeah, but we all are human, right? (32:29) And and I think the way that you mentioned about admiring him, that's the much more healthy (32:34) and common sense way.

(32:37) Once again, we just talked about, you know, like you're in the camp of common sense. (32:41) Yeah, exactly. (32:42) But as a teenager, you do kind of idolize people, don't you? (32:45) Yeah, you do.

(32:46) And and I find it interesting. (32:47) Could I ask you a question about because of the mainstream media, right? (32:53) In my opinion, the mainstream media has set this narrative about who Michael Jackson is. (33:00) Yeah.

(33:01) So we do not trust that because you and I have seen the truth, right? (33:04) We've seen what it actually is. (33:06) But versus what they're telling us, right? (33:09) So why are we trusting the mainstream media for any other things like political or environmental (33:14) or like in the in the covid world, right? (33:17) Like we should be not trusting any of this stuff. (33:20) Do you trust that stuff? (33:22) Not at all.

(33:22) No. (33:23) So you're talking about I don't even watch the news anymore. (33:26) So you're talking about in general, like as a society, like why do we trust mainstream? (33:30) Yes, correct.

(33:30) Yeah, mainstream. (33:32) And let's be honest, politically, even this recent political run, (33:35) and I'm not going to go one, but it's agenda driven. (33:37) How the heck are the people who know that they lied about Michael Jackson (33:41) trust what the what they're saying about political parties? (33:45) How can how can you trust one part of it, but not the other? (33:48) People are sheep.

(33:51) That's what they are. (33:52) You know, like, yeah, you work, you have a long day at work. (33:56) You're absolutely knackered.

(33:57) You just come home, put the TV news on. (33:59) It's kind of escapism. (34:00) You don't want to think about what's going on behind that or what the agenda is.

(34:04) You're just letting it wash all over you and taking it in, unfortunately. (34:09) Yeah. (34:09) So how is it that we got wired slightly differently? (34:13) What happened to us? (34:15) No, that's a good question, Tony.

(34:17) What makes you question things, Tony? (34:20) Yeah. (34:21) Did you always have growing up? (34:22) Did you always have just a general curiosity, curiosity in general or more skepticism? (34:27) Or how was your kind of upbringing in that way? (34:30) I've always been kind of like open to different kind of things. (34:35) Definitely not being narrow minded, you know, as a child and as an adult.

(34:40) But I think you have a responsibility to yourself, whether you whether you do believe (34:44) these things, you know, as a kid and whatever. (34:46) It doesn't really matter how you're brought up. (34:47) You have a responsibility to yourself as an adult to not believe everything that you're (34:52) taking in to kind of do your own research and find out the truth.

(34:56) It's really dangerous to take something from one source and just believe it. (35:00) But unfortunately, a lot of people do. (35:03) Yeah.

(35:03) I feel like distract. (35:05) Like I spoke about a gentleman that I work with, and he's a he's a genius. (35:10) He's borderline genius.

(35:11) And I talked to him about something about the environment and how pesticides were starting (35:17) to work to the poles because the way it evaporates and then and then kind of reconstitutes colder (35:23) area to the point where it can't evaporate and go away anymore. (35:26) And he's like, don't tell me that stuff. (35:28) I don't want to think about it.

(35:29) I'm like, you're a genius. (35:31) You're the one who can fix the problem. (35:33) Why are why are we why are we intentionally turning our heads? (35:37) Right.

(35:37) We're almost like ostriches in a way. (35:39) But there's comfort in ignorance, isn't there? (35:42) There is, I think. (35:43) I think there is.

(35:44) I agree 100%. (35:46) Chris, what are your thoughts on that? (35:47) Well, that's also part of the reason why I stopped watching the news is because I know (35:52) and I stopped watching the news a while ago before covid. (35:56) And it's because I know there's horrible things that happen every single day all over (36:01) the world.

(36:02) I don't need to be reminded of that. (36:04) Yeah. (36:05) So why why would I why would I want to keep being it's like, I mean, I'm immersed in garbage.

(36:16) Yeah. (36:17) So I don't I don't need that. (36:20) I don't I want happy things.

(36:22) Unicorns and rainbows. (36:24) You know what I mean? (36:24) But that's a good point. (36:25) That's a really good point.

(36:27) It's about deciding what we want to consume and how what we're consuming as entertainment (36:31) or whatever. (36:32) It's like food. (36:33) It's affecting our mind just the same way as food is affecting our body.

(36:37) So, you know, like you like you're saying, why take in all this fucking shit? (36:42) It's not going to do you any good. (36:43) And you've come to that realization. (36:44) You're woke.

(36:45) Chris, you're woke. (36:46) That's. (36:47) Sure.

(36:48) Thank you. (36:50) Yeah, it has has woke gotten kind of a little a little bit of a bad connotation recently (36:55) within in the UK. (36:56) Yeah, it's because it's almost it's woke to the point where you're actually hurting the (37:00) initial cause that you were waking up to.

(37:03) Yeah, exactly. (37:05) Well, it's trendy now, too, right? (37:07) So yeah, it doesn't. (37:10) Yeah, the word is now trendy.

(37:11) Yeah. (37:12) And it's been it's been I don't even know how to describe it. (37:18) Where it's it's almost derogatory.

(37:22) And that's not the right word, but I think you guys know what I'm saying. (37:25) It's overused and it's just it's not as meaningful as it as it should be. (37:32) Like, why don't we just calm down, slow down, take a deep breath and think about what we're (37:38) all doing as a as a population of this planet? (37:41) Not just, you know, not just, oh, the go USA or go China or whatever country you're from.

(37:48) But as a human, what are we doing? (37:51) Because we're all the same. (37:52) You know, we all pee and fart. (37:54) Calm the hell down.

(37:55) It's going to be OK if we all take care of each other. (38:01) But humans naturally don't want to do that. (38:04) You know, survival instincts, et cetera, et cetera.

(38:07) And that's so that's a challenge that we face. (38:10) Chris, you need to be president. (38:12) That was that was a beautiful speech.

(38:14) That was amazing. (38:15) Thank you. (38:16) No, sir.

(38:16) I'm going to I'm going to have a food truck. (38:18) I'm president of the food trucks. (38:21) You'd be the president of the Food Truck Society.

(38:23) Yes. (38:23) You guys have food trucks in the UK. (38:25) Food trucks.

(38:25) What are food trucks? (38:26) It's like a small, a tiny bus that they that people sell food out of, like gourmet tacos or (38:34) grilled cheese sandwiches or how about. (38:38) Come on. (38:39) And do they like fish and chips? (38:40) Yeah, we have fish and chip fans.

(38:43) And yeah, we have food truck. (38:45) Yeah. (38:45) OK.

(38:45) Yeah. (38:46) I guess there may be food trucks. (38:47) They jumped what last five years.

(38:50) They just like blew up in the United States. (38:53) Everybody's got a food truck. (38:54) They're usually really bad for you.

(38:57) Usually there's a lot of grease and butter and artery clogging. (39:01) Amazingness. (39:01) I know it's great.

(39:04) The whole point. (39:05) So it's funny, too. (39:06) Sorry.

(39:07) What are your guys thoughts about just going back to Michael Jackson and leaving Neverland? (39:11) And obviously you, Mark, you were talking about your relationship with that film. (39:16) What what do you think was the agenda behind that? (39:18) Because a lot of ignorant people were just soaked up, leaving Neverland and taking it (39:22) as gospel. (39:23) So what what was behind that, do you think? (39:26) Well, what's interesting is we were we were all adults like 20, 21, 22 when the actual (39:31) trial was going on.

(39:32) Right. (39:32) So I can I can tell you, I have vivid memories of what they were telling us was going on (39:38) in the trial, which we obviously are finding that that wasn't true. (39:42) Yeah.

(39:42) Right. (39:43) Yeah. (39:43) So since then, I've been manipulated.

(39:46) I'm not and trust me, as I like to sing, I was a singer. (39:51) Michael Jackson Thriller is it's such a all the albums are great and I love Jackson five (39:58) and all that. (39:59) But when I watch that, I'm not going to lie.

(40:02) It just kind of closed the door on him as an adult. (40:04) It just was so. (40:06) It was so he did it.

(40:08) I mean, it was so Bill Cosby. (40:10) It was so Aaron Hernandez. (40:12) It was so, you know, it was such a at a fact that he did these things that to me, it seemed (40:19) undeniable.

(40:20) Right. (40:21) And I'll be honest, I stop. (40:23) I'm not a cancel culture guy, but personally, I will write like I could not listen to Michael (40:28) Jackson as an adult.

(40:31) But I could listen to Jackson five because I felt like something happened in his childhood (40:34) that would have caused that writer or contributed to that. (40:38) Yeah. (40:38) So you kind of separated the art from the from the artist in a way, but more the age (40:44) of the artist.

(40:45) OK, yeah. (40:46) Because as a child, he was a victim, in my opinion. (40:48) OK, right.

(40:49) Because I don't I don't think bad people I think bad people are more created than just (40:55) born. (40:56) Right. (40:56) I don't think psychopathy or sociopath behavior.

(41:00) There are some where it just happened. (41:02) Right. (41:02) You're born that way.

(41:03) But it's a it's more culturally derived than it is, you know, just a genetic tick. (41:10) Right. (41:11) Do you kind of mean more along the lines of there are no bad people, it's just bad behavior (41:15) or bad things that these people are doing? (41:18) No, no, I believe that you can become you can be created to be bad.

(41:22) Right. (41:22) OK, yeah. (41:23) What nature versus nurture, what you're saying? (41:25) Yeah, there's a nature versus nurture aspect to it.

(41:28) And and I have personally seen child abuse and child child molestation, how it's affected (41:35) people that are good people at their core. (41:39) But that doesn't mean that every every victim of child abuse turns into a child abuser. (41:44) That is absolutely correct.

(41:47) One hundred percent. (41:47) Yeah. (41:48) So I'm I don't I'm not like that.

(41:49) It's not like, oh, you were abused, so you must be a bad person. (41:52) That's not how I see it at all. (41:54) But in this specific case, it was one of those things.

(41:57) But then when we look at the news and the thing about the one that got me, there are (42:01) two things that were really stuck stood out. (42:03) One was the the accusation about the train station that was years later. (42:08) Can you tell us a little bit about that that one story? (42:11) Because that one alone should should kind of, you know, make the rest of the story crumble.

(42:18) Yeah, I'm not very good with dates. (42:19) But apparently, well, during the film, James Safechuck says that he was abused multiple (42:26) times all over Neverland, bearing in mind that there was like cameras all over Neverland. (42:31) It was staffed and all.

(42:32) Anyway, so he was abused in this train station. (42:35) I think he said he was abused upstairs in the train station. (42:38) But at the time when he's saying he was abused, the train station didn't even exist.

(42:43) I think it was I built something like was it three, four or five years afterwards. (42:48) And then when fans kind of discovered this, all of a sudden he kind of like changes when (42:54) the abuse happened and actually the abuse carried on into his teenage years, which he (43:00) doesn't mention in leaving Neverland. (43:02) And I don't think he mentioned it in the original court case either.

(43:06) Right. (43:07) So that was that was the one for me, right? (43:09) That was a big one for me. (43:11) The second one was the part about AJ Benza and how he was either being fed stories or (43:17) putting stories out to protect Harvey Weinstein back in 1995.

(43:23) 25 years ago, Weinstein and that whole organization, Hollywood had been doing that. (43:30) And now that obviously came to fruition and we see how true that was. (43:36) Right.

(43:36) So now the whole thing feels like we're just being jerked off. (43:41) Like I had to say, we're being manipulated on every around would be more appropriate, (43:46) sir. (43:46) Which one jerked around? (43:48) Not a good way.

(43:49) Not jerked off. (43:50) I know this is definitely bad to weirdo. (43:53) And then the last part of that was when something about was there an Oprah comment about something (43:58) like you still have to believe the accuser, whether it was a Tuesday or Wednesday.

(44:02) And I'm like, wasn't it like two years apart? (44:04) That's like not a Tuesday or a Wednesday. (44:08) So and obviously she capitalized off of Michael Jackson's interview back in what? (44:12) Ninety three. (44:13) Was it? (44:14) Yeah, that made her.

(44:15) Yeah. (44:15) She became a global star after that. (44:17) And then she's just right all over him and his family.

(44:20) Yeah. (44:21) And I've got other personal things with Oprah. (44:24) It's my opinion that she has some high up opinions about eugenics and things like that.

(44:29) And Chris and I are going to do a eugenics podcast about it. (44:33) Okay, cool. (44:34) What are your thoughts? (44:35) Tell us, tell us about you.

(44:36) I mean, tell us what you're about. (44:37) I think she's a snake. (44:40) Did you watch the Leaving Neverland after show with Oprah where she was in and she had an (44:45) audience full of child? (44:47) Yeah, we watched that too.

(44:49) Yeah. (44:49) And didn't she at one point turn around and say something like, I mean, I only saw it (44:53) once, but I'm sure she said something along the lines of as if you're being abused as a (44:57) seven year old and someone is touching your penis, you're going to like that. (45:00) I just thought that was absolutely outrageous.

(45:02) What? (45:04) It's not even worth listening to again, but I don't want to even give a credit, but if (45:08) that was said, that's ridiculous. (45:10) I don't remember that, but (45:11) She was going down the route of kind of like grooming. (45:13) You know, she was saying that her mission has been to kind of uncover the patterns of (45:18) grooming, but (45:21) Then why doesn't she focus on the Catholic church? (45:23) Exactly.

(45:24) Oh, sorry. (45:24) I'm a little bitter about that. (45:26) I apologize.

(45:27) Yeah. (45:29) Sorry, I'll just (45:31) As this is your show, my friend, please. (45:34) As a child abuse victim myself, when I watched Leaving Neverland again, I only saw that once (45:40) I could I kind of I've spoken to other survivors and we kind of get like a sixth sense and (45:49) you could just tell that they're you could just tell that they're lying, that they're (45:53) bullshitting.

(45:54) They're not. (45:55) I don't know how to describe it, but do you know what I mean? (46:00) Could you see through them? (46:03) Yeah, absolutely. (46:04) Well, the thing is, the document.

(46:07) Okay. (46:07) The show that is Leaving Neverland is designed to play with your emotions. (46:12) So during that I was I had already been told that Michael Jackson was guilty, right? (46:19) For all this time.

(46:20) So going in, I'm already leaning in that way. (46:24) So it didn't it didn't help. (46:25) Right.

(46:26) So I didn't look for those cues. (46:28) But what I find interesting, you mentioned you're you're a victim of child abuse or (46:32) child molestation. (46:34) Okay.

(46:34) How many people have we come across that have that are victims of this or have had this (46:40) in their life? (46:41) And then look at Michael Jackson and say, no, you know, that tells me more, you know, (46:46) that just that just comes up and says, I was a victim of this. (46:50) And I don't believe it. (46:51) You are right.

(46:52) We're finding that a very interesting thing. (46:54) So how come people who have actually gone through it are able to see this? (47:02) I don't know. (47:02) Maybe it's I know that I wouldn't be acting the way that they're acting.

(47:06) It just there's no they just don't come across as being genuine. (47:11) When you go through something like that, there's there's kind of a depth of emotion. (47:17) There's there's just something there that isn't there with people that haven't got through (47:21) gone through that.

(47:22) And when they kind of act it, you can just see through it. (47:25) I'm not articulating that very well, but it's kind of, like I said, a bit like a sixth (47:30) sense. (47:30) You just pick up on the fact that it's it's bollocks.

(47:34) And I think that's right. (47:36) Yeah, sorry. (47:37) No, go ahead.

(47:37) I was going to say whether that's through like facial expressions or body language or (47:41) just the way someone, you know, is sitting. (47:43) I don't know, but it just did not ring true to me. (47:47) And working in mental health as well, I come into contact.

(47:50) I work with a lot of people. (47:51) The majority of people in mental health as adults, they've had something horrific happen (47:55) to them as a child. (47:57) And so all of that experience as well, it just doesn't ring true.

(48:01) Leaving Neverland just did not ring true. (48:04) Yeah, I totally understand that. (48:05) So how how do you take those things that don't smell right, taste right, feel right? (48:11) How do you take them into the rest of your life? (48:14) Outside of, say, outside of Michael Jackson, how how does that play into other? (48:19) You know, obviously, you work in the mental health field.

(48:21) How does that play into other things that you do in your life? (48:25) Um, that's a good question. (48:30) Sorry, it really is. (48:31) I'm like, holy shit.

(48:34) Well, I mean, it sounds like you're a champion for people, right? (48:37) I mean, you you've gone through some pretty horrific things yourself. (48:40) Yeah. (48:40) And now you're here to help and be be of service to others.

(48:45) Yeah, but it also yeah, there is that side of it, but it also helps you as well. (48:51) Yeah, I'm not really sure how it kind of helps, but but it does. (48:56) Yeah, certainly.

(48:58) Would you say, Tony, that you're just you pull for the underdog? (49:01) You're always a fan of the little guy. (49:03) You're always going to be there for that person. (49:06) Yeah, I guess so.

(49:08) But I kind of don't like blowing my own trumpet with that. (49:12) You know, I don't do the job because I want any kind of recognition or anything like that. (49:15) I do the job because I'm passionate about mental health.

(49:18) I'm passionate about male suicide, for example. (49:20) I've lost friends through suicide. (49:23) I've had my own kind of flirtations with suicide.

(49:27) I see how it absolutely devastates families and friends. (49:31) And I think when you have those kind of experiences, you need to do something about it. (49:35) You can't just you can't just leave it if it affects your life.

(49:39) It colors the whole of your life. (49:42) Agreed 100 percent. (49:44) And I'll speak for the two of us.

(49:46) We both have flirted with it as well. (49:48) It's just, you know, and it's interesting because we're both, once again, middle aged (49:52) white guys, men, whatever. (49:55) And we but we've all had this interesting kind of feel.

(49:58) Right. (49:59) And service seems to be a good way to for an outlet to help others and to kind of address (50:04) and maybe resolve some of the things within ourselves. (50:07) Yeah.

(50:08) Yeah. (50:09) I think so. (50:10) I think it's a byproduct of helping other people.

(50:12) You kind of I mean, I mentioned earlier, like my own mental health issues, and I wasn't (50:16) diagnosed until I went into mental health. (50:19) And I think it was that was kind of like part of the process. (50:21) So when I started working in the industry, then I kind of started realizing, oh, yeah, (50:25) that kind of rings a little bit true for myself.

(50:27) I need to do something about that. (50:30) How old were you when you when you got into that industry? (50:34) Well, it was in two. (50:35) I'm not very good at math.

(50:36) 2011 was that nine years? (50:38) Eleven. (50:38) OK, so nine years ago. (50:39) So 30, 37, something like that.

(50:42) Something like that. (50:42) Yeah. (50:43) OK, 38, maybe.

(50:44) Yeah, that's and and that's when you realize I realized mine about when I was 40. (50:49) Well, it's like that weird midlife crisis kind of thing. (50:52) Right.

(50:52) I have other stuff we've never talked about too much about psychic stuff, but I have psychic (50:58) premonitions and precognitive visions that happen. (51:01) It's pretty crazy. (51:02) Wow.

(51:02) Yeah, it's nuts. (51:04) But Chris, you have anything to say about that or anything about the suicide part or. (51:09) No.

(51:10) I mean, obviously, Tony's one of us. (51:12) Tony's one of us. (51:13) I mean, you're one of us, Tony.

(51:14) Yeah, but there's everything he's for everything he said in the last four point two minutes. (51:20) He's one of us. (51:21) There's a lot of men out there who, you know, who who are like us, but there's also a lot (51:26) of men who can't speak about it because they're men.

(51:29) I mean, I was working with. (51:31) Isn't that horrible? (51:31) Yes, it is. (51:32) I was working with a guy last week and he was a young guy.

(51:35) He was in his early 20s. (51:37) He couldn't explain what was going on with him and he couldn't talk about it because he (51:42) had been conditioned not to talk about his feelings. (51:44) And it's just trying to, you know, tease those kind of feelings out.

(51:47) And we need to talk, you know, we need to talk about things. (51:50) And regarding suicide, if you know anyone that is going through that or if you think (51:54) someone is suicidal, talk to them about it. (51:57) Suicide isn't a dirty word.

(51:59) People need your help if they're going through it. (52:02) Don't ignore them. (52:03) Well, now now we've got President Christopher Woodsy and Prime Minister Tony on the other (52:09) side.

(52:10) I think I think we're going to have to have some peace accords or something after you (52:13) Hopefully we do not have a gaggle of cunts. (52:17) Or or fuck twists, correct? (52:22) And I mean, we echo that 100%. (52:24) We were actually going to do a suicide podcast at some point.

(52:29) Would you be interested in joining us if we do something like that? (52:32) Yeah, definitely. (52:33) Okay. (52:33) Yeah.

(52:33) If we get some research together, it's really hard to talk about because I know I've lost (52:38) at least one or two really close people that, you know, if I, you know, if I was able to (52:44) stop it, it's like, how do you stop? (52:47) Right. (52:47) You know, we just have to address the mental portions of that. (52:50) Yeah.

(52:52) So anything else you want to share about for about the podcast or about your channel, the (52:59) podcast, things like that? (53:01) Not really. (53:02) Just that you can find it on YouTube, MJ News Digest and on Twitter. (53:06) I don't upload as much as I should, but I hope to get back to uploading a couple of times (53:11) a week.

(53:12) That was one of my questions. (53:14) How often were you pretty religious about your YouTube channel twice a week? (53:20) Yeah, pretty much twice a week, sometimes three times a week at the occasional live. (53:25) But then like with the job opportunity and various other things that, you know, happen (53:29) in your private life, YouTube kind of went off the boiler for a little bit.

(53:34) I'm back doing it again. (53:37) And then you started a podcast with Jess recently, right? (53:41) Yeah, I did. (53:41) So the podcast, the podcast is MJ News Digest, just the audio version.

(53:46) But there's another podcast, which is MJ News Review, which kind of looks at maybe two weeks (53:50) worth of news and has more of a discussion about it. (53:53) But unfortunately, Jess is a very busy woman. (53:55) So it's trying to get together with Jess and record them together.

(53:59) So there has been at least one, I think, where I've just been doing it myself. (54:04) But yeah, Jess is still on board and I look forward to doing some more podcasts with (54:09) her. (54:09) She's an amazing lady.

(54:11) So you're trying to do one with her every two weeks and one with yourself, just by yourself (54:15) every week? (54:15) The original plan was that, but now I think we're looking at doing it like once a month (54:19) for the longer podcast. (54:21) Yeah. (54:21) I mean, you guys have got a really good schedule.

(54:24) You're just pumping them out. (54:25) Well, we also, we only live 20 minutes away from each other and between the two of us, (54:30) we do come up with too many ideas and, you know, we go on so many fricking tangents. (54:36) It's ridiculous.

(54:39) And usually both of us have something to say. (54:43) Yeah. (54:43) So that's the issue.

(54:44) Yeah. (54:45) Well, that's what's great about opinion, you know, we're allowed to have them. (54:48) Like assholes.

(54:49) Until they tell us we can't have them anymore. (54:51) So Mark, you kind of didn't answer my question. (54:55) What was the agenda behind leaving Neverland? (54:58) Oh, you kind of, you were talking about Hyvie Weitzman.

(55:01) Do you think it was to do with that or? (55:03) I would attest it's a bigger picture. (55:07) Michael Jackson has already been found not innocent or found guilty. (55:12) However you want to say it in public opinion.

(55:14) And they're just capitalizing on it. (55:16) Yeah. (55:17) And it just isn't it? (55:18) Because in the court of law, he was found innocent, but public opinion is guilty.

(55:22) Right. (55:22) Public opinion is guilty. (55:23) And guess what? (55:24) It's a moneymaker, right? (55:25) Michael Jackson is still a big name.

(55:26) So you can make money off any show about him. (55:29) And the truth is, if I was on the losing side, there's two ways you can do it. (55:33) You can either acquiesce and say, you know what? (55:36) We were wrong about the way we reported the whole time.

(55:38) Or you double down. (55:39) And my opinion is they're doubling down to save their own face. (55:43) And they're hoping that the fickle, distracted people are going to not think about it anymore.

(55:48) And it'll go away. (55:49) So whoever's on that side, they're not going to be seen as bad people in two, three years, (55:57) because we'll forget about that happening. (55:59) And it's immediacy.

(56:01) They're doubling down on what they said to save face, in my opinion. (56:05) It's just personal opinion. (56:06) Am I allowed to answer the question? (56:08) Yes, sir.

(56:08) Please do. (56:09) You're like, no, fuck off. (56:10) You cannot answer.

(56:12) When we first started looking at this months ago, I beer googled who owns HBO. (56:18) It's owned by Time Warner, a massive entertainment conglomerate, right? (56:24) And I love HBO. (56:26) I love Rome.

(56:27) It's one of my favorite shows. (56:28) Obviously, everybody loves Sopranos. (56:30) You know, the number of shows, Stupid Game of Thrones.

(56:33) You know, the number of shows they put out is amazing in 30 years, right? (56:38) So I'm a big fan of HBO. (56:40) So I watched Leaving Neverland. (56:42) And I'm like, yeah, it's horrible, these things that they're saying, right? (56:47) But it's obvious to Tony's question.

(56:50) To me, it's ratings. (56:53) It was all about money. (56:55) They tried to get as many people to watch as possible.

(56:58) And they didn't care about the slandering of a person. (57:03) And as I told Taj Jackson, they didn't care about the ramifications of what they said (57:11) to the family of Michael Jackson, to Taj and Michael's kids. (57:16) And they just came out with guns blazing, (57:20) regardless of the fact that there were 14 charges against Michael.

(57:24) And all of those were found not guilty. (57:28) And that was never mentioned. (57:29) It was just the word of two people.

(57:33) That's it. (57:34) That's the end of the sentence. (57:36) It was the word of two people.

(57:39) Done. (57:40) It was a one-sided story. (57:41) And that's not my opinion.

(57:43) That is fact. (57:44) If you watched Leaving Neverland, it's the word of two people. (57:47) It was not a trial with jurors, et cetera, and lawyers and the court of law and blind (57:53) justice and all that shit.

(57:55) So to me, to Tony's question, sorry for the rambling, it was HBO and Time Warner trying (58:01) to get ratings and trying to get people to watch HBO. (58:05) And now, to Mark's point, they're doubling down with Stupid Leaving Neverland 2. (58:09) Again, for the ratings grab and for money, not caring about the ramifications of this, (58:16) I'm going to use the word gimmick. (58:18) Yeah.

(58:19) Yeah, but why would they care? (58:21) You know, they're making their money. (58:22) They don't. (58:23) Yeah.

(58:23) Right. (58:24) They just care about money. (58:25) Yeah.

(58:25) Well, and it goes to all these things. (58:27) We talked about woke. (58:28) Like, how about Awakening is way more accurate.

(58:33) No one is 100% woke. (58:36) Woke is like a state of mind that is complete. (58:39) Everyone's always.

(58:40) I think we should always be striving to be woke, but no one can just be woke. (58:47) Speak for yourself, man. (58:49) I mean, I wake up every morning, but I think we are as humans.

(58:54) We are kind of we're waking up. (58:57) Absolutely. (58:59) I just think the term is almost like we've arrived there and we're not there because (59:04) we have partial opinions about what everything is.

(59:06) Right. (59:07) So we're not 100% woke yet, but I think the attempt to do it is where we make our. (59:14) Can anyone ever be? (59:16) Because we're always learning.

(59:17) Right. (59:17) We're always trying to improve. (59:19) We're always trying to get better.

(59:21) And I like the word enlightened. (59:22) I mean, because we're always trying to. (59:25) I mean, I try to be better tomorrow than I am today.

(59:28) Right. (59:28) But a lot of people aren't. (59:30) A lot of people don't give a shit.

(59:31) Right. (59:31) A lot of people feel they are already there. (59:33) Right.

(59:34) And I don't think that's possible. (59:35) Because there's always something more to read and something more to learn (59:38) and something more a different perspective to different way to look at something. (59:43) Right.

(59:43) So can you truly ever get there? (59:45) No, I don't. (59:46) I don't. (59:47) I don't think so.

(59:47) But I mean, maybe I'm wrong. (59:49) No, I agree. (59:50) And looking at those, I don't know if you're familiar with the Me Too movement, Tony, (59:54) when we had that happen.

(59:56) And once again, I just want to be clear. (59:59) There are bad people who do bad things to good people. (1:00:03) That is a truth.

(1:00:05) Okay. (1:00:05) Me Too absolutely had its place. (1:00:08) However, when it got bigger, like, for example, are you familiar with Anthony Bourdain's wife? (1:00:13) Vaguely.

(1:00:15) Otavia Bouzia? (1:00:16) No. (1:00:16) I think it was her. (1:00:17) Okay.

(1:00:18) So Anthony Bourdain's wife alleged that she's part of Me Too. (1:00:23) She was being abused or being. (1:00:26) By Anthony Bourdain? (1:00:27) Not by Anthony.

(1:00:28) By, I think, by Winestanding. (1:00:30) She was part of the Me Tooers. (1:00:31) Okay.

(1:00:32) But she had an affair with a 17 year old. (1:00:36) And she to get herself out. (1:00:39) So she Me Too somebody who when she claimed she was Me Too, for example.

(1:00:43) Right. (1:00:43) And Anthony paid this gentleman off money. (1:00:48) And then Anthony killed himself.

(1:00:50) How long? (1:00:50) How long after? (1:00:51) Like a few months after even that, you know, it's like these things can be very dangerous (1:00:56) if they're not watched closely. (1:00:59) Yeah. (1:00:59) You know.

(1:01:01) So it's just weird things like that. (1:01:03) It's not the initial people that are harmed. (1:01:06) It's the ones who pile on and try to take advantage of those situations.

(1:01:09) Would you mean like a cover up? (1:01:11) Yeah. (1:01:12) I mean, that's a simplified. (1:01:13) That's really what it was.

(1:01:14) She was covering it up. (1:01:15) You're not talking about this, but other cover ups, not just this one specifically. (1:01:20) Well, how could I get attention? (1:01:22) Oh, I was molested too.

(1:01:23) Or I was affected too. (1:01:25) Right. (1:01:25) So it's kind of an attention grab in the design.

(1:01:30) But the actual movement is a great concept, right? (1:01:33) There have been bad people doing bad things for a long time, and we need to expose those. (1:01:37) But we have to be very careful about who we accuse and how we accuse because (1:01:41) a false accusation could undermine the whole movement itself. (1:01:48) I agree.

(1:01:49) Interesting. (1:01:50) Yeah. (1:01:51) I don't know.

(1:01:52) I'm just my brain. (1:01:53) Are you just talking out of your ass now? (1:01:55) Yeah, I think so. (1:01:55) Okay, cool.

(1:01:56) Here, let me put it back. (1:01:56) As long as it's clear. (1:01:59) So anyway, I think the Me Too movement was kind of like as big over here as it was in America.

(1:02:06) But yeah, you made some very valid points, Mark. (1:02:09) I mean, Me Too started with Weinstein, if memory serves. (1:02:13) Correct.

(1:02:13) So, Tony, what's your take on Mark's comment seven minutes ago regarding Weinstein and (1:02:19) Michael Jackson in the 90s, where people were allegedly, supposedly planting evidence (1:02:28) against Michael to throw the dogs off from Harvey Weinstein? (1:02:35) Yeah, that makes sense. (1:02:36) It's not the first time I've heard that. (1:02:38) I had heard that before, and it's good to hear someone else say that.

(1:02:42) Are you guys aware of when Leaving Neverland premiered at Sundance? (1:02:47) Yes. (1:02:48) Okay. (1:02:49) So, also at the same festival, there was going to be the Harvey Weitz... (1:02:52) Is it Weitz? (1:02:53) How do you pronounce it? (1:02:54) Weinstein.

(1:02:55) Weinstein. (1:02:55) The Harvey Weinstein documentary. (1:02:57) Yes.

(1:02:58) Yeah, but Leaving Neverland was kind of like shoehorned in at the last minute, (1:03:02) which was a bit curious. (1:03:04) And the heat was taken off Weinstein, and instead everyone is focusing on Leaving Neverland. (1:03:09) Can you remember the Harvey Weinstein documentary? (1:03:11) Did you see it? (1:03:12) Yes, I did.

(1:03:12) Yes. (1:03:13) Okay, cool. (1:03:15) It was terrible.

(1:03:17) Yeah. (1:03:18) There's definitely something in that, I think, if you want to talk about conspiracies. (1:03:24) So, you definitely agree that... (1:03:28) I mean, we can call it whatever you will, but it was like the powers that be were deflecting (1:03:34) away from Weinstein and onto Michael Jackson.

(1:03:37) Yeah, definitely. (1:03:38) But as Mark said, Michael Jackson being guilty makes a lot of money, (1:03:43) and this train is just going to keep running. (1:03:46) You know, but it's up to us to do our due diligence and get that message out there.

(1:03:51) And I'm interested in both of you talking about how Square One, an amazing film, (1:03:55) how that sways your opinion. (1:03:57) How did it change your relationship with Michael Jackson and his music? (1:04:01) Did you start listening to his music again? (1:04:04) Are you like rediscovering new songs? (1:04:06) Or how did that kind of pan out? (1:04:11) With me, it didn't really change. (1:04:13) I didn't really stop listening to his music either way, (1:04:16) because I can separate the art from the person.

(1:04:23) Okay. (1:04:24) Kind of like with Kevin Spacey, you know, these horrible things. (1:04:29) What horrible things? (1:04:31) Oh, Kevin Spacey, sorry, I was thinking about Kevin Bacon, sorry.

(1:04:35) I don't think Kevin Bacon did anything bad, but you know, I don't know. (1:04:38) Thank God. (1:04:38) So, I think Kevin Spacey is an amazing actor, and I'm not going to not... (1:04:44) American Beauty is one of my top 10 favorite movies, and I'm still going to watch it.

(1:04:47) He did horrible things, yes. (1:04:50) But I'm not going to cancel him because I can separate the art from the person. (1:04:57) So, to your question about how my view or my perception (1:05:04) of Michael's music changed after watching Square One, (1:05:07) it really didn't, because I never changed in the first place.

(1:05:12) But did it make you more sympathetic, maybe, towards Michael Jackson? (1:05:15) Oh, well, absolutely, because it was more... (1:05:17) Square One was based on facts, and when they interviewed, (1:05:24) when Danny Wu interviewed two jurors of the trial, I was like, (1:05:29) holy shit, because why didn't Leaving Neverland interview two jurors? (1:05:35) How did this young man come out of, seemingly, from my perception, (1:05:39) came out of nowhere, and got two jurors from a Michael Jackson trial, (1:05:45) but HBO couldn't or didn't, or didn't even bother? (1:05:51) So, that seemed crazy to me, and the piles of evidence that were displayed. (1:05:59) So, it absolutely changed the way that I viewed (1:06:06) the media manipulation of the masses again. (1:06:10) And that's just another way where the... (1:06:13) I mean, there's five major corporations that own all of media in the world, (1:06:16) and that's horrible in and of itself.

(1:06:18) But it's just another topic where... (1:06:22) Are the media manipulating elections? (1:06:25) Probably. (1:06:26) Are they manipulating COVID? (1:06:28) Probably. (1:06:28) I don't know, but they manipulated this, and it seems obvious that they did.

(1:06:33) Did that answer your question? (1:06:34) Yes, yeah, that was great. (1:06:36) Okay. (1:06:37) And, Mark, to your... (1:06:40) Mark's made the point that seeing Square One definitely changed (1:06:44) his view of Michael Jackson's music, for sure.

(1:06:47) Yeah. (1:06:48) Yeah, that's good. (1:06:49) Good, as it should be.

(1:06:51) Well, two things. (1:06:53) The thing of which Kevin Bacon is guilty is being from Philadelphia. (1:06:59) Considering I'm from Philadelphia, I know how trashed human beings are from Philadelphia.

(1:07:03) You're lovely, sir. (1:07:05) But I... (1:07:06) And that's the same thing. (1:07:07) I'm struggling with that.

(1:07:08) Are you able to separate the two, Tony? (1:07:11) Are you able to separate the artist from the art? (1:07:13) Because one of my favorite movies is Usual Suspects, and Kevin Spacey... (1:07:19) Basically, Chris mentioned Kevin Spacey, and I flipped him the bird because... (1:07:23) I got dual birds. (1:07:25) Because Kevin Spacey is one of my favorite actors, (1:07:28) yet if all of those allegations or any of those are true... (1:07:32) And he's guilty. (1:07:34) He admitted some of them, I believe.

(1:07:35) Yes, he admitted some. (1:07:36) For example, the Star Trek Discovery guy, when he was in Broadway at 14. (1:07:42) Something like that.

(1:07:43) Something like that. (1:07:43) I don't know for sure. (1:07:44) I have a hard time supporting anyone in that way.

(1:07:49) I'm wondering if it's me, though. (1:07:50) Should I be able to separate the art from the artist? (1:07:53) What was the Netflix show that he was in where he was the president? (1:07:57) House of Cards. (1:07:58) Yeah, so I loved House of Cards, but when all this came out, (1:08:01) I stopped watching House of Cards because of Kevin Spacey.

(1:08:05) But it wasn't just about the allegations as well. (1:08:08) It was the whole gay thing as well, where everyone knew that he was gay, (1:08:13) but he said that he wasn't. (1:08:15) And then after the allegation, he kind of used the fact that he was gay (1:08:18) to try and justify what he was doing with a 14-year-old.

(1:08:22) It was just a mess. (1:08:24) So yeah, I found it hard to separate his artistry, I guess. (1:08:30) Which does that make me a hypocrite? (1:08:31) Because I didn't do that with Michael Jackson, (1:08:32) but maybe I know the truth about Michael Jackson.

(1:08:35) So I don't know. (1:08:37) Yeah, it's weird. (1:08:37) Yeah, it's a very good point.

(1:08:38) And I want to be clear. (1:08:40) I believe it was Asia Argento was Bourdain's lover, not Octavia. (1:08:46) I just, once again... (1:08:47) Oh, not wife, but... (1:08:48) Yeah, not the wife.

(1:08:49) It was girlfriend. (1:08:50) I think it's girlfriend because Octavia, they divorced in 2016. (1:08:53) So I think it's Asia Argento.

(1:08:55) I don't... (1:08:55) I try not to dox people or try not... (1:08:57) I try to be as accurate as we can be. (1:08:58) We're not here to... (1:09:00) We're here to look at philosophies and ideas, not individuals. (1:09:04) But it's interesting because the cancel culture... (1:09:06) I would never tell someone not to watch or not listen.

(1:09:10) But for personal use, I take the personal accountability. (1:09:14) To your point, Tony, I haven't watched a Kevin Spacey. (1:09:17) But I love Chris and I know Chris's favorite movie (1:09:21) or one of his favorite movies, American Beauty, like he mentioned.

(1:09:24) And that's his decision to do that. (1:09:26) I wouldn't tell him not to, but for me, I couldn't not do it. (1:09:30) And I don't fault you for that, Mark.

(1:09:32) I mean, if you're... (1:09:33) That's why we're great people in general. (1:09:34) Yeah, and I don't... (1:09:35) I totally... (1:09:36) I completely understand why you won't watch Usual Suspects. (1:09:40) I get it.

(1:09:41) I understand completely because I do that with other things. (1:09:46) I will like... (1:09:48) I'll see something that'll upset me and I'll go, (1:09:50) I'm not shopping there anymore. (1:09:52) I'm not going to buy that car because something will upset me (1:09:55) and I will purposely, consciously not do something (1:10:00) to not give my money to somebody or not spend my time (1:10:03) with a certain company or a certain whatever.

(1:10:06) So I understand your... (1:10:08) The way that your brain is processing this. (1:10:10) And I totally respect that. (1:10:12) And I have no judgment towards that at all.

(1:10:16) So I get it. (1:10:17) I just look at it differently. (1:10:19) That's all.

(1:10:20) Right. (1:10:20) And I accept... (1:10:21) And I certainly accept you for how that is. (1:10:23) I mean, and that's the thing is... (1:10:25) Lovefest, this is ridiculous.

(1:10:26) The three of us being who we are, we kind of... (1:10:29) We've always done the vote with our dollar kind of thing. (1:10:31) Of course. (1:10:32) So in a weird way, it was kind of pre-cancel culture (1:10:35) because individually we can say, (1:10:37) I'm not going to spend my money on this.

(1:10:39) Yeah. (1:10:40) Where cancel culture is gone, (1:10:41) it's now you're tweeting a million, billion people (1:10:44) and telling everyone else not to do it too. (1:10:47) Yeah.

(1:10:47) And I feel like that's a little controlling in my opinion. (1:10:51) What are your thoughts on that, Tony? (1:10:52) Yeah, definitely. (1:10:53) Definitely.

(1:10:56) I agree. (1:10:58) It's also... (1:10:59) I wish I could tweet a million, billion people. (1:11:02) I know.

(1:11:02) That's a lot. (1:11:03) There's only 7 billion right now. (1:11:05) We need a million, billion.

(1:11:06) That's a lot of people, dude. (1:11:08) That's... (1:11:09) That kind of... (1:11:09) Those kind of tweets do put pressure on a lot of people. (1:11:12) Well, I just tweet out dog pictures and Legos.

(1:11:15) Or Lego. (1:11:16) Lego. (1:11:17) What were you saying? (1:11:19) What was that? (1:11:21) Lego.

(1:11:22) Like the snap pieces you put together? (1:11:23) Tiny toys built in Sweden. (1:11:26) Yeah. (1:11:27) I have a Lego addiction problem, Tony.

(1:11:30) Excellent. Excellent. (1:11:31) Chris likes to think that the plural of Lego is Legos.

(1:11:34) It is not, sir. (1:11:36) Oh. (1:11:36) It is Lego.

(1:11:38) There you go. (1:11:39) Legos. (1:11:40) I'll drink margaritas and I'll build Lego.

(1:11:44) Excellent. (1:11:44) Do you buy like the adult kits? (1:11:46) Like the Star Wars and all that? (1:11:47) Yes, sir. (1:11:48) I just finished the Imperial Star Destroyer.

(1:11:50) And it sat in my closet for eight months. (1:11:54) And then I bought the Millennium Falcon five days ago. (1:11:58) How many hours did you put it? (1:11:59) I believe it's on the Instagram.

(1:12:00) On your Instagram, right? (1:12:01) No, it's on... (1:12:02) Because I don't have an Instagram. (1:12:03) My dogs have an Instagram. (1:12:05) That's right.

(1:12:05) It's on Twitter and the Facebook. (1:12:07) The Imperial Star Destroyer, which is three and a half feet long, (1:12:10) took me 32 hours, 45 minutes. (1:12:12) Wow.

(1:12:13) Over like, I think it was three, two and a half weeks. (1:12:17) I'd work on it for like nine hours one day. (1:12:20) Then I would not touch it for a week.

(1:12:22) It's 31 pounds, Tony. (1:12:24) It's re-goddamn-diculous. (1:12:26) Wow.

(1:12:26) Does it have like moving parts and lights and stuff like that? (1:12:29) It does not have moving parts. (1:12:31) It does have moving parts, but no lights. (1:12:33) The light kits are extra, like $59.

(1:12:36) And I'm like, yeah, I don't need any lights. (1:12:41) I'm good. (1:12:43) So do you have any other hobbies or anything that you do, Tony? (1:12:47) Uh, not really.

(1:12:48) No. (1:12:50) You just work and work, right? (1:12:51) Yeah. (1:12:52) Pretty much work.

(1:12:53) And the podcast, that's a good balance. (1:12:56) Yeah. (1:12:56) And you're an econosaur.

(1:12:57) Oh, definitely. (1:12:59) But yeah, when I talk to my friends about the MJ podcast or the YouTube channel, (1:13:03) they're like, what the fuck are you doing wasting your time on that? (1:13:05) But, you know, to me, it is a bit of a passion, but it's also a balance. (1:13:09) When you're, you know, when you've got a stressful job, (1:13:11) you need something to balance your life.

(1:13:14) Absolutely. (1:13:15) I never thought about it that way before. (1:13:17) That's a really good point.

(1:13:18) It's something about the balance. (1:13:19) So why would they think that? (1:13:20) Why would they think that's a waste of time? (1:13:22) What's their what's their philosophy on it? (1:13:24) I haven't really gone into detail with them, (1:13:26) but I guess kind of like you're spending time on a celebrity, a dead celebrity. (1:13:31) So I think there's a bit of that.

(1:13:34) Yeah, but to the point, the thing that got me about it (1:13:38) is the system that told me the wrong thing. (1:13:41) I'm all about and I mean, Chris and I have talked about this is (1:13:45) these systems are in place and we're doing podcast episodes that show (1:13:50) where the system rears its ugly head. (1:13:52) Right.

(1:13:53) We've done it with medical. (1:13:55) We I don't even know if that one's out yet. (1:13:57) No pharmaceutical industry, but the covid thing.

(1:14:00) We've done it on so many different the Catholic church. (1:14:03) Yeah, we've shown where the system of control needs to be looked at. (1:14:08) We're not we're not saying burn everything down.

(1:14:10) We just want to come up with a better solution to replace it, (1:14:13) not just to destroy it, if that makes sense. (1:14:17) But wouldn't it be quicker just to burn everything down? (1:14:21) Chris votes yes on burning everything down. (1:14:24) However, Mark does not.

(1:14:26) Mark, tell us why you don't want to burn it down. (1:14:28) Well, it's my opinion that we can we can come up with a replacement system (1:14:32) that we can test in a vacuum like beta testing (1:14:35) and then have it replace the current system, (1:14:38) because in my opinion, a lack of a system (1:14:42) with humanity, the way humanity is, is very dangerous in my opinion. (1:14:47) Oh, good point.

(1:14:47) Yeah, I that's bullshit. (1:14:51) Burn it down. (1:14:52) Well, like the term defund the police.

(1:14:55) It's it's catchy, right? (1:14:56) It fits on a poster board. (1:14:58) But the truth is, oh, you know, it's a better poster board than that. (1:15:02) Burn it down.

(1:15:03) Oh, but defund the police is great. (1:15:07) It's like all you're saying is get rid of it. (1:15:09) Tony, do you know what he's talking about? (1:15:11) What defund the police? (1:15:13) Yeah.

(1:15:13) Yes. (1:15:13) Yeah. (1:15:14) OK, I just want to make sure you because that is an American vernacular.

(1:15:18) I went on me on you. (1:15:19) I'm sorry. (1:15:20) My bad.

(1:15:21) But the defund the police is basically just saying strip them of their of their resources. (1:15:26) That's not saying let's let's look at how it's being addressed and how it's being spent (1:15:31) so we can do it better. (1:15:32) Right.

(1:15:33) It's a much different conversation than just burn it down. (1:15:36) And I think with looking at it from a constructive critical point of view is much better than (1:15:41) a destructive critical point of view. (1:15:43) But who is going to beta test this new thing? (1:15:46) Surely it was the governments, is it Mark? (1:15:49) Well, that's the problem, right? (1:15:50) We have elected officials and such.

(1:15:52) But I mean, one of the problems in a free society as we are is I think the scale it's (1:15:58) hard to to have this many people to scale be free. (1:16:03) Right. (1:16:04) Under one under one ideal ideology ideology, I guess.

(1:16:09) Mark's point is that in the United States, there's 320 million people and they're all (1:16:14) individuals with individual thoughts, individual freedoms. (1:16:17) How can you move everyone into one direction? (1:16:22) Yeah, and the only way to do is do it like China does it. (1:16:25) That's my opinion.

(1:16:26) I mean, unfortunately, with that comes. (1:16:29) Huge masses of control. (1:16:30) And where you lose the American way of life, the the constitution of freedom of this freedom (1:16:37) of that, et cetera.

(1:16:38) Yeah, yeah, we're fucked, basically. (1:16:43) Yeah, exactly. (1:16:44) I think I'm going to move to Canada.

(1:16:47) Well, that's the thing is, I mean, you know, one of the most egalitarian is like Sweden, (1:16:51) for example, and sweet. (1:16:52) But Sweden has such a small number of people compared, compared, of course, right? (1:16:57) I mean, we're say they have 10 million people or 33 times that size. (1:17:02) China's three times the size of us.

(1:17:03) How could you possibly manage? (1:17:05) It's almost like it's challenging to do it that way. (1:17:09) Yeah, and the United States had a really good idea when I, in my opinion, when they first (1:17:13) came to fruition was beautiful, right? (1:17:15) Individual states are individual, but we come together as a as a country, right? (1:17:21) But they are individual groups within that country, which is why can California shut (1:17:26) down, Philadelphia shut down, but Texas, Arizona wide open, right? (1:17:30) Yeah. (1:17:32) So it's just it's just how do we get through life? (1:17:36) Tony, how do we get through this? (1:17:37) This prime minister? (1:17:40) We need to just have fun, just have fun with life.

(1:17:43) Try it. (1:17:44) When I was talking earlier about the about, you know, I'm fucked up with the fact that (1:17:48) Christmas has been canceled. (1:17:50) Look at it in a different perspective.

(1:17:52) Yeah, it's annoying and I'm not going to be able to do what I want to do and nor millions (1:17:57) of other people. (1:17:58) But there's also people that are a lot worse off or, you know, we're not in a kind of, (1:18:03) you know, we're not in war, not in World War Three, although some people could say (1:18:06) COVID is World War Three. (1:18:08) Things can always be a little bit worse, I guess.

(1:18:11) Yeah. (1:18:12) So with that, what happens? (1:18:14) This is where it gets scary, though, because we decide that and we're cool with it. (1:18:18) Now, the people who put those policies in place go, well, no one's pushed back.

(1:18:22) No one's fought. (1:18:23) They've accepted it right to to that original point. (1:18:26) Then they're like, what next can we do to see if you put, you know, if you push back (1:18:31) or not? (1:18:33) Yeah, we do need to push back.

(1:18:36) I feel like there needs to be a healthy pushback. (1:18:38) You know, it's just not not obviously not violence. (1:18:41) Right.

(1:18:41) The one thing I'm a constitutionalist, man, I believe in peaceably assemble. (1:18:45) Let me tell you, I'm a lover, not a fighter, as Michael Jackson says. (1:18:49) So I wouldn't burn places down.

(1:18:52) But there has to be peaceful protests or something more than just peaceful protests, though. (1:18:59) Yeah, there needs to be an actual movement, an actual result of the protest. (1:19:05) Right.

(1:19:05) Yeah. (1:19:06) And how do we get to that without it getting violent or getting out of hand? (1:19:12) That's the question, I guess. (1:19:14) Tony used the word revolution earlier.

(1:19:16) But what exactly does that mean? (1:19:19) I think is the big question. (1:19:21) And because I agree that and I hate to say, oh, we need change. (1:19:25) Well, no shit.

(1:19:26) Everyone knows that. (1:19:27) Is there anyone that's happy with? (1:19:30) Obviously, Tony's not happy with what's going on in the UK. (1:19:32) Mark and I are not happy with what's going on in the United States.

(1:19:35) OK, well, no shit. (1:19:37) That's common. (1:19:38) That's we're pro common sense.

(1:19:40) But how do we get to a place of where we're all being better people and the systems that (1:19:52) we do have are not stepping on other people? (1:19:56) How do we get have a revolution that's not violent? (1:19:59) Is that possible? (1:20:01) Probably not. (1:20:03) Probably not. (1:20:04) And maybe that is the agenda as well.

(1:20:06) So I don't know. (1:20:08) But do you guys remember an old TV show called V about like the aliens? (1:20:15) It's our favorite TV. (1:20:17) Of course, we know it is our favorite TV show.

(1:20:20) It has. (1:20:20) Look, it has Freddy Krueger in it for no way. (1:20:22) Battlestar Galactica is our favorite TV show.

(1:20:24) That's true. (1:20:25) He's like in the top five. (1:20:26) Yes.

(1:20:27) Let's not get carried away. (1:20:28) I bought the box set the other day and normally I don't buy DVDs or Blu rays. (1:20:31) I just told you he was one of us.

(1:20:34) But they to kind of like against the resistance, they made these little kind of like pocket (1:20:42) resistant groups. (1:20:44) Yeah. (1:20:45) So and they did like hit and run missions, right? (1:20:48) Exactly.

(1:20:48) They didn't have the internet back then, but we've got the internet now. (1:20:50) So we can have one in London, one in California when we can. (1:20:54) That's the way to do it.

(1:20:56) Surely. (1:20:56) And I'm wondering if Twitter is the kind of the nonviolent way of doing it, right? (1:21:01) But with everyone talking, no one's listening. (1:21:05) Oh, yeah.

(1:21:06) You know what I mean? (1:21:07) It feels like everyone's and everyone as a human has that individual right to be human (1:21:15) and to share and express themselves as long as it's nonviolent. (1:21:19) Yes. (1:21:19) But when everyone's talking because they've all feel they need to be heard, (1:21:24) there's certainly not enough people listening.

(1:21:26) Yeah. (1:21:27) How do we balance the talking and the list? (1:21:29) How do we balance that? (1:21:30) And how do we culturally maybe like, hey, you've got two years in one mouth, right? (1:21:35) You should that ratio should be equivalent. (1:21:37) I'm a talker, obviously, way more than I'm a listener.

(1:21:40) So I'm guilty of this. (1:21:43) So how do we get around that? (1:21:45) Duct tape, Mark. (1:21:47) You're going to duct tape my thumbs together? (1:21:49) And your freaking mouth.

(1:21:52) I'm going to tweet with my nose, sir. (1:21:54) Oh, God. (1:21:55) Your nose is you hit like seven characters at one time.

(1:21:59) Yeah, I fat nosed it. (1:22:01) Freaking dork. (1:22:02) So Tony, what are your thoughts on that about just everyone talking and no one listening? (1:22:06) Is that part of maybe part of the problem as well? (1:22:08) Yeah, definitely.

(1:22:09) But like you say, how do we get around that? (1:22:11) I can't see how we can kind of stop that. (1:22:15) And I think that's on ourselves, right? (1:22:17) The whole woke thing is like, I would love us to all (1:22:21) consciously look at ourselves and how we can be better. (1:22:25) But to your point, it's really hard when you're distracted and you've got, (1:22:28) you know, the wife and the kids trying to pick up, you know, dinner.

(1:22:31) And then you've got soccer practice. (1:22:32) And then you've got band after that. (1:22:34) It's football over there, dude, not soccer.

(1:22:36) Oh, sorry. (1:22:36) Football. (1:22:37) Football practice.

(1:22:38) My bad. (1:22:38) Yeah. (1:22:40) And you stop for tea, not coffee.

(1:22:41) Are you a foot? (1:22:42) Are you a football fan, Tony? (1:22:44) I thought so. (1:22:44) No, that's smart, too. (1:22:47) It's funny.

(1:22:47) I was actually an American football fan for a number of years. (1:22:50) And as we've, as my life has changed, and as we've started looking at these things, (1:22:55) and as Chris and I have had these conversations, even prior to the podcasting of this, (1:22:59) of the conversations, I've kind of drifted away from those, those tribalistic kind of ideals. (1:23:06) So is that how this podcast came about? (1:23:08) Because you two were having these kind of conversations already.

(1:23:12) Yes, we've been having these conversations for many, many years. (1:23:18) 10, 12 years, probably. (1:23:21) I mean, we I've been here.

(1:23:22) Chris was my first, when I came out here permanently to Arizona, (1:23:26) Chris was already living here. (1:23:27) This was 2003. (1:23:28) So for the last 17, for sure, at least 15 or so years, we've had one week a month, (1:23:34) one weekend day a month.

(1:23:36) Usually a Friday. (1:23:36) Friday a month. (1:23:37) And we would sit there.

(1:23:38) And have, we'd have conversations that would go five hours. (1:23:41) Wow. (1:23:42) At stupid Chinese food restaurants.

(1:23:45) Or at my house, or my apartment, or his house, or whatever. (1:23:49) On a Saturday, we watched Battlestar Galactica on his huge wall. (1:23:52) Um, and then he had all these slowly over time.

(1:23:57) He started getting the equipment. (1:24:00) And I said, when do we just, we should just be having, (1:24:03) we should be recording these conversations. (1:24:05) You know, that's, it was as simple as that.

(1:24:08) And we just lowered the hammer. (1:24:11) And maybe this is how we can, you know, start changing things by people having (1:24:15) these kinds of conversations and getting together and talking about these kinds of issues. (1:24:21) Agreed.

(1:24:21) I couldn't agree with you more. (1:24:23) I mean, I'm going to be honest. (1:24:24) My view of the world isn't everyone's, nor would I ask that I, my personal opinions (1:24:30) be adopted as a whole, like as a societal change.

(1:24:34) You have your own opinion. (1:24:35) That's the difference. (1:24:36) Correct.

(1:24:37) Yes, certainly. (1:24:38) I would never want to enforce my, the way I view the world because I do see things (1:24:43) much differently than just the average bear in many cases. (1:24:46) That's not better by any means.

(1:24:48) It's just different, right? (1:24:49) We have different filters that we have, whether it's genetic or even through our, through (1:24:54) our upbringing, through our nurture, but not having these conversations in my opinion (1:24:59) is way more detrimental because we don't even, all we do is take a side and then sit (1:25:04) harder on that side. (1:25:07) Yeah, definitely. (1:25:09) Yeah.

(1:25:09) So, well, we'd love to have you on any time if you'd ever want to have a conversation. (1:25:13) Is there anything else that we can, any world problems we can fix? (1:25:17) Like we did all these other problems we did today. (1:25:18) I don't know.

(1:25:20) I think we're quite good where we've left it. (1:25:22) Where else can we find you, Tony? (1:25:24) On YouTube and Twitter. (1:25:26) So MJ News Digest.

(1:25:28) On both those? (1:25:29) Yes. (1:25:30) Same. (1:25:30) Okay.

(1:25:31) Yeah. (1:25:31) And we'll share all that. (1:25:32) All good podcasting platforms and apps.

(1:25:35) Okay. (1:25:35) Absolutely. (1:25:36) We'll share all that information on the show notes as well.

(1:25:38) Thank you very much. (1:25:39) Thank you. (1:25:40) Yeah, absolutely.

(1:25:41) And we're so glad that it's funny because if I was not up at one or 2 AM and had just (1:25:48) follow me and then me message her, thanking her for following us when I had 20 listeners (1:25:53) or 20 followers, we wouldn't be having this conversation. (1:25:57) So in a weird way, just being open to these things has allowed three very complete strangers (1:26:03) to get together. (1:26:05) And that's an amazing thing.

(1:26:06) There's a lesson there, I think. (1:26:08) Absolutely. (1:26:09) Thanks to Jess too.

(1:26:10) Yeah. (1:26:10) Thank you. (1:26:11) And thank you to you for coming on and sharing your time with us.

(1:26:15) We know it's very valuable because you work a full-time job. (1:26:18) You've got the podcast. (1:26:19) You've got the YouTube channel.

(1:26:22) You work very hard. (1:26:23) And we admire that. (1:26:24) And we're so grateful that you gave us that time.

(1:26:27) And obviously, you've been kind to us. (1:26:29) So we're more grateful and thankful to you. (1:26:32) Yes.

(1:26:32) Thank you. (1:26:33) Thank you very much. (1:26:34) And thanks for having me on.

(1:26:35) I've really, really enjoyed it. (1:26:37) Absolutely. (1:26:38) Any closing arguments, sir? (1:26:39) Any closing statements? (1:26:41) Be excellent to each other and party on, dudes.

(1:26:43) I agree. (1:26:44) Cool. (1:26:44) Tony, thank you so much for coming on.

(1:26:46) Thank you. (1:26:47) Have a great day. (1:26:48) And you.