Transcript of my conversation with Stephen Holland 9/26/2021

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Hey everybody and welcome to another episode of Knocked Conscious. It's Mark here and I am very excited to introduce the person I have on the other side of the microphone. His name is Stephen Holland, and if you don't know, you may have seen his artwork all over Las Vegas in the 2000s and 2010s, because that's when I saw him.

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And I have a story on how I came to find his art and everything, but I reached out to him and he so graciously reached back and kindly reached back, and now we're going to have a conversation. Hi Steve, are you there? Hi Mark, thank you for having me. Thank you so much for joining.

May I share the quick story that I have about the first piece that I bought of yours? Yes. Okay, so I was driving up to Las Vegas and I've seen your artwork before. Stephen, you're very famously known for doing a lot of sports figures.

One in particular is Muhammad Ali, one of my idols. I absolutely love Muhammad Ali. And your painting Ali 1965 has always been one of my favorites.

I always go into galleries looking for it. On the drive up to Las Vegas, I was with my ex-girlfriend now, but current girlfriend at the time, and a song came up and we started dancing and I started doing the dance moves from Pulp Fiction. You know, the John Travolta fingers over the eyes and the twist and stuff.

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One of my favorites. It's so funny. It is.

It's one of the greatest scenes of all time. And what happened was I started doing the dance and she looked at me quizzically and she didn't understand what it was. And I told her, this is what it was.

Well, what happened was the first gallery we walked into, I walked in, I said, I'd like to look, see if you have Ali 1965 of Stephen Holland. The woman says, no, but I think there's something you might like. It's in the back.

We just got it in. She walks us literally in these catacombs in the back of the store. And she pulls out this, this, uh, she clay and it's John Travolta from Pulp Fiction.

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The one that you painted that he had signed. And I knew right there that there was kismet there. I bought it on the spot.

So I just knew that there was something about the connection, you know, the energy, there's something there, how I got pulled back there. I don't know, but we're talking now and Steve, thank you so much again for joining me. Tell me a little bit about, you know, for those who don't, you know, you to give us a little general idea of who you are and what you do.

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Well, uh, um, uh, um, at present, uh, I mean, I'm a painter. I've been an artist my entire life. Actually, my mother said that I came out holding a pencil.

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And, uh, even though there has been a lot of, uh, a lot, I didn't want to call it baggage, a lot of stuff in the way probably put there by me. Uh, it took me a long time to finally get serious and become a professional somewhere ever since I was, could remember thinking, I knew I was going to be an artist. Um, I grew up in the Bronx and New York city.

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Uh, I currently live now in Southern California, in Beachtown. And, um, please tell me of a guest room. Yes, but it's currently occupied.

No worries. And, um, it's just been a long road. Uh, at present, I mean, I got involved, uh, painting sports.

Um, I don't know, what is it? Uh, 30, 40 years ago. Uh, and about three years ago, I, I stopped painting the sports and started concentrating on, on a different style of painting, a different approach to it, which was more personal. Although the sports were pretty personal too, uh, for what I would call an artistic reason as much as a fan reason.

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Absolutely. Do you remember your first commission piece with sports or do you remember your first piece that you painted or the first piece you sold? I actually, um, before I really got serious about it, I was working with a guy, um, in, I guess out of La Canyada, California, and he had me doing these generic paintings of, of, uh, for some promotion that he was doing. Um, but the actual first commission piece was commissioned by the Los Angeles, uh, oh my God, the hockey team.

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Uh, the Kings. Yeah. Los Angeles Kings.

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Okay. Yeah. Was it the Gretzky piece? No, it was not a Gretzky piece.

It was actually a generic piece also, but a big piece. Oh, very nice. And, and it was actually how I got that piece was quite, I don't know, you would call it synchronicity or consequence, but it started my whole career.

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Oh, I'd love to hear that story. That sounds amazing. Cause I, I love synchronous events, Steven.

Like I said, this, the whole reason we're talking is because of this, I think. Okay. So please share.

I'd love to hear it. All right. So I had gotten my life together from, uh, untogether life and was working for somebody doing artwork, a lot of artwork in conjunction with my current wife.

And we, uh, I wanted to stop and start doing some illustration work, you know, do some freelance illustration. Yes. Uh, but in the meantime, uh, I get a phone call from a friend that tells me he ran into this woman named Joanna and Joanna wanted to know how I was doing and that she had some work for me.

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So Joanna was someone that I had done, uh, a commission for, for a, uh, hospital piece. Okay. Of some, uh, carousel animals.

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Oh, very nice. About 10 years earlier. Wow.

That long ago. Is that, she, she, you made that, that much of an impression. And so she, uh, you know, and, and when she'd seen me, she'd seen me, the, I used to make toys.

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So she'd seen the toys. She saw the carousel animals and she saw a little bit of sports work that I had been doing at the time. Anyway.

So I, uh, I call up Joanna and she says, no, no, I don't have any work for you. I just ran into Mark, the guy's name and said, uh, how, uh, you know, wondered how I was doing. So I told her, you know, what I was doing and, you know, just, you know, moving around and this and that.

And, uh, so now we have to segue from there into the LA Kings hockey team. Yeah. They just been bought by a new owner, Bruce McNall.

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And he changed everything. He changed the colors of the team. He changed their uniforms.

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Uh, he changed the decoration in the office. Everything. I remember it.

Well, I'm a big hockey fan. So I remember all the changes when, when teams, uh, change their colors from like, I think they were what? Uh, purple and yellow and they are royal, you know, royal purple and yellow. And then they went to like silver and black.

Right. Right. And this is just when they bought Wayne Gretzky.

Right. Exactly. The 15th, you know, the greatest hockey player of all time.

King's ransom. It's an amazing story. So, uh, the, the owner, Bruce asked their marketing director to, uh, get a bunch of paintings made on the team for their office offices.

And so he had no idea where to find the sports artist. So he went to the guy where he bought all his furniture from, you know, his new furniture for the new offices because the, the, uh, they usually, when they sell furniture, they usually have a lot of paintings hanging there. Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah. They kind of, they kind of work with the paintings. Yeah.

They let, get the painting scene. Yeah, absolutely. So he said he didn't know any sports artists, but he asked the art consultant, the art consultant that hung the painting center.

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I hang landscapes and abstract paintings. I don't know any sports stars. Her name was Carol.

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The next day, Carol runs into Joanna in the street. They're, you know, they're just friends. They hadn't seen each other in a long time.

And Carol said, Oh, by the way, Joanna, you wouldn't know a sports artist, would you? Joanna said, well, as a matter of fact, I just spoke to one yesterday. Wow. And so the day before, yes.

Oh my gosh. That is totally synchronous, right? Yes. And so the next day, uh, you know, or, you know, within a couple of days, uh, we're down, my wife and I are down at the King's offices showing the marketing director, Rob Moore, uh, my portfolio.

Now Rob Moore actually, uh, his dad lived in Southern California where I live. And, and, uh, he had told me, I mean, he's a great guy, a regular guy, but he said, you know, I grew up in an aristocrat, so I know a lot about art. And at that time, you know, which is 30 years ago or so in the sports teams, you didn't have many people that knew much about art.

No, not at all. As much, it wasn't as much white collar as much more blue collar people, right? Like just, salt of the earth people. Yeah.

And so he was very happy to connect with me. Right. Cause you were a true artist.

And, and, and, uh, you know, I grew up in the street and I grew up, you know, so I could talk his language. Exactly. That's amazing.

And so there it went from there. That's how I got started. And at the same time, Joanna and Carol connected me up with a gallery that was selling sports and entertainment art in Los Angeles.

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Oh, that's great. Do you know, do you remember the name of that, of that place? Is it still open? Uh, no, it's not open anymore at all. And I, I don't remember.

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That's amazing though. So in, in, in one day, in two days, you went from obscurity to some kind of notoriety. Right.

Right. But you know, that's, that's kind of funny. It's, it's a good, well, I had learned these lessons early on, you know, I had good training in that, but I remember thinking how, when we first went down to the King's offices, I had never been in that kind of setting before, or, you know, with those kinds of people, I was like, you know, who in my mind were all these wild people.

And, and I thought, oh my God, this is so fantastic. I mean, if, if, if, if Rob Moore were to come out and talk to us in the waiting room, it would have been a thrill, let alone get back in their offices. Right.

Exactly. I mean, just to be noticed, right. Just to have some kind of.

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But three weeks later, I remember the owner had a, you know, like a private party and I felt, how come I wasn't invited? Oh, you were slated. Yeah, already. Three weeks in, right.

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You went from a humble to entitled in three weeks, right? I have to laugh at. That is funny. You're like, hey, how dare he not invite me after inviting me.

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So that just launched it all for you then. That did. So what brought you out to the West coast from the Bronx? I mean, I'm from Philadelphia, so I'm, I'm very East coast guy.

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Right. Okay, good. I hear it.

And you know, you, it's, it's such a different attitude, mentality, a culture and all that. What brought me out here? Well, I came out here twice, both times because of women. I would do the same, Steve.

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The first time was in 1976 when an ex-girlfriend had moved out here and she called that I still was hung up on and she called me and said, oh, you have to come out here. She lived, she had moved to the Haight-Ashbury just before the summer of love. Oh, wow.

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Yes. Oh, wow. So that must've been a lot of love going on.

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Yes. So I came right out and drove across country and came right out. Famous last words, every man would have said, I came right out.

I'm just telling you right there, I would have jumped right in the car and headed out. But when I got there, she said, I don't know why I said that. I changed my mind.

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Oh no. But as I said, it was the Haight-Ashbury in the summer of love and it just was all happening right away. That's beautiful.

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So you got to experience some really amazing times. Yes. Yes.

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And places. I did. So I was there till the end.

I stayed in the Haight-Ashbury and then I spent another year in San Francisco in rehab after the Haight-Ashbury. Oh, wow. Wow.

Do you care to share about that story or? Uh. It's certainly up to you. Yeah.

Yeah. No, I don't really like to hold anything back. I was a heroin addict for a lot of years, a lot of years ever since, you know, 1961, I think I started.

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Oh my gosh. Yeah. Well, I was kind of a functioning heroin addict and I used on and off, but mostly on, you know, I just kind of kept it rolling.

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And stayed alive somehow with all of that. Did you use while you were painting? Oh, yeah. During times of inspiration? Yeah.

I just, yeah. Yeah. And, you know, talking about inspiration, I remember just a little aside.

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Um, in the early 60s, there was a singer out of Portland, Oregon, when it was all started happening. His name was Tim Harden. He was a new age folk singer.

Sang beautiful songs. Okay. He's the guy who wrote If I Were a Carpenter.

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Right. Which almost people would know. Yeah.

I'm very familiar with it. Okay. And so he had this, this really soulful voice.

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And he said, uh, I remember he stopped using and this soulful singing changed. So he started using again and then he died. Oh.

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And I remembered, I remembered saying to myself that when I eventually had stopped using for good, I remember I remembered that and said, I'm going to make sure that I keep my soulfulness in my work, whether I'm using heroin or not. It's interesting you mentioned that because a lot of people talk about that creative being unleashed with, you know, they talk about mind altering versus mind freeing. Right.

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Whereas that, you know, it's kind of like the Michelangelo talked about the statue was always there. I just had to carve away the stuff around it. Right.

When you have that inspiration and that type of thing gives you that it, how could you walk away from that? You know what I mean? I can imagine the challenges. Well, I took it originally not to be creative. I took it originally because I was in a lot of pain emotional pain.

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Oh my gosh. Uh, based on, from things when I was younger, things that happened when I was younger. And so, uh, that's what that did for me.

It stopped that pain. That's, um, that's, that's important to know as well, you know? Which, uh, and, you know, regarding the heroin, when I eventually gave it up, you know, it took me about 30 years. It was my current wife and she didn't know, but I knew it was either her or the heroin.

And I had known her for quite a while and known who she was when we were just friendly. And I said, I want this more than anything in my life. And the heroin's gone.

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That's amazing. So when did you, when did you stop stop? I stopped stopped in 88, 1988. Holy mackerel.

Congratulations. That's amazing. That's great.

Congratulations for you that you had that strength and that your wife gave in a weird way, gave you that strength. Yeah. She was the reason, but I, I had, uh, help.

I had help stopping. Yeah. It's, it's important to have the help as well.

But if you don't have the personal desire, you know, The help was a phenomenal help. And I would love to go back and tell you that story. But first we were talking about something else.

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Okay. Uh, what brought you out to the West coast? So you headed them back to the, you went back to New York for a while or somewhere? Yes. And I went back to New York for, um, a year and a half and was, uh, I was living with another woman out there and there were these spiritual retreats out in California.

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And they were supposed to give you, uh, it was basically mostly based on the Eastern religion. Yeah. Every retreat.

And they were supposed to give you quite an experience and, you know, not everybody got them, but, uh, on retreat, You know, it has something to do with like Kundalini and all that kind of stuff. Well, it had to do with, I guess the Kundalini rising, but what did it have to do with, um, it was a, you know, how, what a Zen Sashim is? I don't know. Uh, that's where this, uh, I think it's a Zen Sashim.

I'm not sure, but it's, you know, it is or Zen Cohen, where there's a question, like, what is the sound of one hand clapping? Uh huh. Yeah. Okay.

So familiar with those. And so you can never answer that. You just have to experience that.

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You would get the sound of one hand clapping is silence. Right. Right.

That's true. Yeah. And so this retreat was geared to do that and it was 18 hours a day meditation.

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And what year was that when you went back out? That was 70, 1970. And so you, uh, you, you, uh, uh, but you know, sitting mate and, and meditating 18 hours a day is really very difficult. I can't imagine doing it for 20 minutes.

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So this group that, uh, was called the Institute of Ability that was founded by a guy named Charles Berner, he had developed a technique where you meditate actually in conversation with another person working on a question. Then it allows you to keep your focus for all that time. Oh, wow.

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And they were three and five day retreats and they were geared to give you an experience of, you call it whatever you want, God, enlightenment, the truth. Right. You know, presence, whatever it was, it was all the same.

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Some kind of epiphany, right? Some kind, it was more than an epiphany. It was actually a transformational state of consciousness. Got it.

I see. It was kind of what like enlightened beings experience for their whole lives. But this is a mini glimpse into that.

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I guess it's what a lot of people experienced on acid. Yeah. That's what I hear.

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That's what I hear. Okay. I never got it on acid for some reason.

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I mean, I enjoyed the acid, but I never got to that. I've never been, I've never had the fortune of trying like the good stuff back in the day. Now I can't imagine the crap that it is now.

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I can imagine the sixties. It was pure, you know, or at least like a lot better for you. It was very pure.

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And in today's world, I don't know if you can trust your sources. I wouldn't even think about it. With fentanyl out there.

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I don't want to touch anything. No, no. So anyway, so I went the second time this one girlfriend wanted to go out and do this retreat.

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And so we drove across the country. We started out with $36 in our pocket, driving to California from the Bronx. Do you mind if I ask what kind of car you had? Yeah, we had a 1974 or earlier VW.

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No, it wasn't 74. Couldn't have been fair. 74 was 1970 was an old, old VW van that I had built the whole inside to make it livable.

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Oh my gosh. Really? Like the little magic bus kind of man. Well, it wasn't, it was just a small van, but yeah.

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Beds and, and, and bathroom or I don't know what kind of bathroom I don't remember, but it had, it had places to sit in the back and eat, you know, sleep and everything. That's great. And you built that out yourself? Yes, I did.

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Actually, at that point, I had lived with this woman and we lived in Brooklyn, across the street from the college I went to when I went to college, which was in the early 60s. Late 50s, Pratt Institute. Okay.

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And I lived right across the street from the school. And they had a whole woodshop in there. And somehow I got them to let me use their woodshop.

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That's great. And so I built this whole thing. So you're pretty, you're pretty industrious, regardless of being artistic, you actually are practical with your hands as well.

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Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. When I came to California, this the last time and eventually hooked up with a woman and we got married and she had a kid, we had a kid. I started making hand painted wooden ties, toys and selling them at craft fairs.

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Oh, that's amazing. So anyway, so this girl wants to get to California and I want to get us there late because you know, it's a four day retreat. You know, vegetarian, no smoking.

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I was three packs a day. You're trying to hem and haw, you're pushing it back as far as you can. Yeah, but she got us there.

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We got there in time. Good. And, and took the retreat.

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And I didn't have much of an experience on the retreat, but I got a glimpse. And the lady and I split up and I had been initiated back in New York by a person named Swami Satchidananda, who was a Hindu Swami, an enlightened being. And he was a teacher in New York City.

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And he had moved to New York City and he had been brought here by Peter Max, the artist. Oh, okay. Who ran into him in Paris.

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Wow. Who became one of his devotees. And they eventually set up an ashram in Manhattan.

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And so, because I was on drugs and I thought it would help getting off, I got initiated. So, and I knew, you know, and I knew about the, you know, the ashram. So, when I came to California after doing this retreat and my lady and I split up at that retreat, I didn't know what to do.

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I went to, there was, they were starting an ashram in Santa Cruz. So, I went up there to the ashram in Santa Cruz and moved in and started practicing yoga. And actually, at that point, I had stopped using heroin again for five years.

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Well, five years later, I went back. But I stopped, I moved into the ashram for nine months and learned, God, so much about meditation and, you know, the Eastern philosophy. Right.

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And, you know, doing yoga poses and, you know, really worked at it. Yeah. How were you able to incorporate that into your life? Did you just meditate every morning or did you do yoga every day? It was an ashram.

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That's what we did. I mean, coming out of that. Like, did you continue that? Oh, we did that.

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Yeah. After that, I did yoga in the morning and I meditated in the morning. Okay.

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And when I left there, I moved into, I came back down to a place called Santa Barbara. Yeah. And my brother was staying there with his girlfriend at a woman's house watching her son.

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She was getting a divorce and she needed to go find work. And the three of them lived in kind of like a communal living situation. Okay.

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They watched the kids. They helped cook, clean. She was a physical therapist.

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So she earned, she owned the house and earned enough money to support everybody. So I moved into that situation and eventually the woman and I got married. Oh, that's great.

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But I remember the first thing I did in an ashram, everything is kind of clear. You know, you have pillows up against the walls. Right.

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And, you know, it's very simple. She had furniture like an obstacle course. It was so tight or you had just so much of it? Well, yeah, it was so much of it.

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Being very pushy, I guess at the time, we got rid of all the furniture and started, everybody started doing yoga in the living room because there was no room. Right. And also it was a way of thinking.

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For sure. Yoga is, it's the teachings are more about, it's kind of like what my wife teaches our granddaughter since she was able to hear was be good, do good and have fun. Be good, do good, have fun.

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That sounds like pretty straightforward to me. Yeah. Can we do some, can we get back to that? Well, it's up to you.

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Well, yeah, I guess it's true. I'm hoping, I mean, can the collective you get back to that? Can we all kind of focus on being good, doing good and having fun? That would be kind of nice. Instead of arguing and... Pretty far away from that.

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Yeah. Well, hopefully we can get back to that. Right.

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But those are great tenets to have. Be good, do good, have fun. Yeah.

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You know, I believe humans are basically good people that we, you know, doing good makes us happy. There are a few of us that it doesn't, that we're so miserable that all we want to do is make other people miserable. But I think basically, you know, and then we bring that misery out in other people.

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We do, yeah. But I think people would spend a lot more time having a lot more fun being happy. I would agree.

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I think that, I mean, some of the most selfish things are charitable. I mean, one of the best things that make you feel good is when you can help someone. Yes.

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You know, I mean, it's a weird, selfish kind of good feeling, but how can service to other people in humanity be a bad thing? And, you know, I see it. I see it so much, you know, like, you know, down South, there's a hurricane or flooding and, you know, you get hardcore Republican or you get hardcore people, racists coming down and not caring if you're green, purple or striped. Right.

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They're just there to help. Right. And they enjoy it.

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And that's why they're there. Yeah. That's what I think is the thing that I like in people.

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And that needs to be nurtured in people. Yeah. It's nice.

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You know, it's nice. That sense of community. I mean, you were born in 1941, right? Right.

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In the Bronx. So I would assume Bronx in 1940s was a very tight community. You knew the name of every neighbor.

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Yes. Everyone you lived with. That those times have changed a lot too, you know.

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I remember, you know, living where I live now in Southern California when my son was, was, you know, 13. We wouldn't even let him go to the movies by himself. Wow.

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Okay. I was going to movies by myself at six or seven. Right.

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Yeah. You'd even ask your neighbor to, like, let you in sometimes, right? Or get you. Well, it was sad to have an adult at that age.

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Right. Exactly. Just go to the movies and wait there till a woman was coming in, you know, with her son.

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And I'd ask her if she got, give her, you know, the quarter and say, could you buy my ticket and take me in? Oh, that'd be great. Sure. Of course.

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But the thing that was interesting, you know, was that the, you know, I could walk four or five, six blocks from my house. And I remember there was, like, on my block alone, there was, like, a thousand people living, you know, in the apartment building. Absolutely.

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Especially in New York, for sure. And so I didn't know everybody, but everybody knew me. Right.

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I was always safe. Exactly. Because no matter where I was within my neighborhood, somebody knew that I was there and I was theirs.

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And it's interesting because it sounds like you found kind of a community in the West when you moved out. And then when you went back out, you know, you had your groups and your, like you said, you had everyone contributed something to the whole. Yeah.

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You know. Yes. And I think that's where it works really well, is when there's a small group of people committed to an idea like that.

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It works really well. It's when it gets a little bit bigger and one person refuses to do what everyone else is chipping in to do. And that creates animosity sometimes, you know.

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Well, you lived in Philadelphia, right? Yes, sir. So if you live in an urban setting, you know, there's a lot of hanging out on a street corner. That is correct.

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That's not three or four guys. No, it's not. That's 30, 40 people hanging out on the street.

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Yeah, it is. I mean, that's your Saturday night. So for sure.

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And yes, there are fistfights and, you know, different things happening. Oh, yeah. And you're all friends.

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Yeah. And, you know, I wish we felt like we were all in this together at some point, you know. Yeah.

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I feel like we all feel like we're fighting the different battles, but I feel like we kind of should all be good, do good, and have fun. Yeah. It's a nice way to live.

(34:09 - 34:31)

You know, I have a lot better time being happy than not being happy. Isn't it great? It's I have so much a better time that any and, you know, because of my experiences and work I've done, I'm able to do this. But anything that upsets me after a couple of minutes, I'm like, wait a second.

(34:31 - 34:49)

I don't like this. And I need to find a way to get out of it, not more into it. You know, that's a hard lesson to learn sometimes, right? I mean, look at, you know, we talk about we shared kind of general ideologies and, you know, general philosophies.

(34:49 - 34:59)

But like Afghanistan is a great example of that, right? Like, we should get out. No, let's double our efforts every year, you know, or whatever we did, you know. And it just gets deeper and deeper.

(34:59 - 35:12)

You know, we need to realize sometimes it's very introspective and very mature to realize when you're in over your head, you know. Right. Or when you realize that you're not getting the what you need out of something, you know.

(35:13 - 35:27)

Really, what is it that you want? Right. You know, you want to be fighting with people. Do you want to be hassling with people? Do you want to be upset all the time? Do you want to be a victim most of your life? Right.

(35:27 - 35:44)

Feeling like people are messing with you? Yeah. It's unfortunate that we have, we kind of lean, that's our new default setting, you know, being offended or being victimized in some weird way. But yeah, people, I mean, so easy for people to fall in being a victim.

(35:44 - 35:52)

And then when you, when you would point that out to them the first day, say, I'm not a victim. Right. Yeah.

(35:52 - 35:56)

I'm being victimized, but I'm not a victim. Right. Yeah.

(35:56 - 36:06)

I see it. So, so you, you have this career of a lot of the commission type work, right? Yes. I have to ask, because we had that conversation.

(36:07 - 36:20)

Like I mentioned, Muhammad Ali is my, is just, I don't, I've never met them. I was never blessed enough to meet him, even though he lived in Phoenix for a bit. But I understand you actually did know him personally.

(36:21 - 36:42)

Yes, I did. You want to share any, a couple stories of his that would really just share how great a person he truly was or? A few little things. Um, so eventually what happened is, you know, is that I started trying to work at building a career in selling sports on.

(36:42 - 36:57)

I got together with my current wife. I stopped using the drugs. I had somebody that helped out with investment in our business and we were off and running trying to survive.

(36:58 - 37:09)

And, and, uh, making a living at doing the sports art, which it turned out I was fairly good at. Which you are, by the way, I can attest. Thank you.

(37:10 - 37:27)

Thank you. And so, uh, you know, uh, my wife was the president of the company and I was chairman of the easel and, you know, off we went. And so it was a struggle.

(37:27 - 37:49)

Neither one of us had known very much about business before, right? Business and we worked and worked and worked. So when we first started, uh, to do the print business, I said, she said, well, where do you want to start? And I said, let's start at the top with Muhammad Ali. Perfect.

(37:49 - 38:06)

And if we can't get him, we'll just work our way down. Yeah, we'll shoot for the stars, right? Right. Remember, you know, we felt like a couple of kids doing this, even though we're in our forties, I still felt like, you know, like a child in this, you know? Oh, absolutely.

(38:07 - 38:28)

So to correlate that story in the podcast world, Joe Rogan is the Muhammad Ali of podcasting. Yes. I have sent him a message asking to talk to him because if you don't ask, you definitely won't, right? So how did that go? You reached out to Ali directly or his agent or? Oh, we found, it was very funny story.

(38:28 - 38:35)

We found this agent through a book. The agent's name was Harlan Werner. Okay.

(38:36 - 38:46)

Who I pictured as this big black, you know, being with, with, you know, pinky rings. Right. Harlan, right? Like a big guy.

(38:47 - 38:54)

The agent. Yeah. And I call him and I found his number and I call the office and I get an appointment.

(38:55 - 39:07)

And so my wife and I, you know, put on dress up clothes in a suit and, you know, I put on a tie, you know, which I Southern California usually don't have to wear that. Yeah. That's not a thing.

(39:07 - 39:17)

I'm like I said, I'm in Arizona now, so. I was my shield of armor. And so I could, we get down to his, his office was in his house.

(39:17 - 39:51)

We get down to his house in LA and, and knock on the door and this big wide door opens with this young blonde woman at the door and a big white staircase, right? At the door leading upstairs, coming down the stairs was a, was a kid that looked like a young Howard Stern, you know, hair, tank tops, shorts and flip flops, ice cream. Right. Okay.

(39:51 - 40:05)

He walks up to the door and I just, I was going to ask him, tell him we're here to see your dad. Right. And the woman said, before I got a chance to say it, she says, Harlan, this is Mr. Mrs. Harlan.

(40:05 - 40:15)

Oh my gosh. You're glad you didn't say that, right? Right. So we actually, we came in, we hit it off and we made a big deal.

(40:16 - 40:25)

Oh, that's great. With him. We did it, you know, and, and did this print, which turned out to be very well.

(40:25 - 40:38)

And, uh, we started out working with the United Negro College Fund. And so. Oh, so did you, so you did something where you commissioned some art and some of the proceeds went there or? Yes.

(40:38 - 40:47)

Yeah. Okay. We did, we were selling the prints and they gave us their mailing list and in return, they got a percentage.

(40:47 - 41:07)

Oh, that's great. So, uh, anyway, we're struggling along, you know, 30 years and, but meanwhile, my wife, Janelle is working with, um, you know, I call her my wife, like she's my wife. She actually is my heart.

(41:07 - 41:38)

Oh, don't do that to me, Steve. You know, the, the, the love of an artist, I'll tell you there, it knows no bounds. Uh, so, uh, anyway, the, the, um, uh, she, you know, when people would come to me and they'd want to do a project with Muhammad, they'd come to me because of the, the print we had made originally.

(41:39 - 41:49)

Right. And, but I would immediately turn them on to Harlan and say, well, you have to go through him. And so Janelle got to be working with Harlan.

(41:50 - 42:16)

My wife, Janelle got to, got working with Harlan and they got to know each other well, and you know, through the years. Anyway, after about four or five years, I, you know, I've been selling here in a gallery here and there and doing okay. And then Harlan, who was a licensing agent for, you know, big name athletes, you know, in Muhammad, Joe Namath, uh, Sandy Koufax.

(42:17 - 42:21)

Right. You know, history makers in their field. Absolutely.

(42:21 - 42:29)

And I, I, I definitely know that you did a name and I think you did a Koufax too, didn't you? Several. Yeah, I did. At least those, I recall those.

(42:30 - 42:47)

So, uh, because of Muhammad, who was at the time the, the most well-known celebrity on the planet, he had real cachet in the whole, in every world. For sure. He transcended sports.

(42:47 - 42:56)

I mean, he was. He did. And so he came up, he called me one day and said he wanted to come to where I live and talk to me.

(42:56 - 43:07)

And he did. And comes into my living room, says he wants to start handling sports artists and he'd like to represent me. Oh, wow.

(43:08 - 43:10)

Uh, yeah. Wow. That's, that's amazing.

(43:11 - 43:15)

I don't know if I was interested. I said, yes, yesterday. Yeah, absolutely.

(43:15 - 43:27)

Right. You couldn't say it fast enough. And so what he did, um, was he had partnered up with the fellow who was the head of sales.

(43:28 - 43:43)

His name is, uh, Daniel Crosby for Martin Lawrence galleries. Martin Lawrence galleries at the time was, uh, in their field of decorative art with the largest gallery chain in the country. Okay.

(43:44 - 44:21)

And so he had partnered up with them, with him and me. And he thought with the three of us, he in his field, Daniel in his field and me, what I did, we would be unbeatable for sure. And, and so we went to town and so it went fairly quickly from where my wife was busy making cold calls, getting more nos than yeses, of course, of course, to people going up to Daniel and saying, Hey Daniel, tell me what you got.

(44:23 - 44:33)

So that must've been a nice, uh, relief for you and your wife at the time. Yes. You know, where we have a, like a stability, I guess, where you're not chasing it all the time.

(44:33 - 44:49)

Right. Did that offer some additional artistic freedom for you or? No, I had the artistic freedom. You know, I was always growing, always learning, always trying to get more artistic freedom, but you have to understand the real artistic freedom.

(44:50 - 45:02)

See, this was, I was selling, I was, uh, I was trying to make a living. Yeah. I had to do work that sold.

(45:03 - 45:21)

Right. So I could be creative and there was a lot of fun in that and I really enjoyed it. And being actually being successful when I had never been a success in my life at all at anything, I actually, or in my opinion, anyway.

(45:21 - 45:38)

Well, I mean, in the financial scheme of things possibly, but it sounds like your whole life, you did what your heart wanted, uh, in some way. I mean, there's gotta be value in that, right? Yeah, I did, but I, I came at it. Can understand this.

(45:39 - 45:44)

I came at it going under instead of going over. Right. I see.

(45:45 - 45:49)

You know, and now I'm starting to go over. Right. Absolutely.

(45:50 - 45:57)

You know, doing it from, you know, from, you know, being up. Right. From a net positive, right.

(45:57 - 46:00)

From being ahead of the game. Yeah. I hear what you mean.

(46:00 - 46:04)

Yeah. It's almost like always behind the eight ball, you know, you're always digging to get out. Yeah.

(46:04 - 46:15)

Now you had kind of dug a little bit. I grew up, I was handicapped as a child, uh, all through most of the elementary school. Oh, really? I didn't like to play sports.

(46:15 - 46:23)

I always felt left out. Oh my gosh. How did you get better? How did you? It was something that after five years, it was fixed.

(46:23 - 46:28)

Oh, wow. So, but I had to wear a brace before that. And, and, you know.

(46:29 - 46:36)

And, and, and that's like social circles as a kid, you, you don't get into those circles if you don't start in those circles. Yeah. It's kind of hard to.

(46:36 - 46:44)

Problems. And it seemed like most of it was created in my own mind when they weren't really there. Yeah.

(46:44 - 47:06)

You know, when I look back and I looked back and thought back and looked at circumstances and I saw that, that, you know, that it was my, it was a fabric of my imagination. All of that pain, all of it. It's interesting, the introspective, right? When you have that new filter coming, looking at a previous way that you handled something that you would have totally handled differently.

(47:07 - 47:33)

And so, you know, I remember this because when I had, uh, broke up with my first wife and I went to work for a friend of mine as a, uh, a woodworker working in his shop. And so we were friends and, you know, there are a couple of people there, but he and I, you know, throughout the day we would go, okay, let's do 25. And we dropped to the floor and do 25 pushups.

(47:33 - 47:42)

And we do about a hundred a day. Right. And so one day I decided to do 200.

(47:43 - 47:47)

You just said, screw it. I'm going to double it. Yeah, I just did 200 a day.

(47:47 - 47:50)

I mean, it's 25 at a time. It's not that difficult. Sure.

(47:51 - 48:00)

And so the next day I was late for work. I had an appointment in the morning. I came in at, uh, you know, late in the morning.

(48:01 - 48:15)

And my friend said to me, he said, I'm going after your record and I'm already up to 200. And I thought this was the thought that went through my mind. And it was a very typical thought.

(48:16 - 48:30)

I said, of course, to myself, the only reason I have this record is because nobody else wants it. I never wanted anything in my life. I want, you know, I'm a, I'm a total loser.

(48:30 - 48:45)

You know, of course, without my record, you know, was just about to hang my head. And from, I don't know where, but a voice came up inside of me and it said, bullshit. It said, bullshit.

(48:47 - 49:01)

And I, you know, Yeah, that's somebody, that's definitely your inside telling you. How am I going to, you know, like every time I'm going to drop and do 25, he'll do 25 and they'll always be 200 ahead of me. Right.

(49:01 - 49:23)

So I told him I had to make an important phone call. And so I would go into the office to make the call, but I, you know, and I do 25 pushups, come out and say, no answer, you know, and I did that throughout, you know, the morning and early afternoon until I caught up to him. That's great.

(49:23 - 49:32)

It's great that you could get away with it. Because back in the day, you had actually had to physically phone on a physical line. You actually get to go into a room, close the door.

(49:33 - 49:37)

Yes. Lift a receiver that was connected physically. Yes.

(49:38 - 49:42)

And then push all the buttons or the dial thing. The zhugga zhugga zhugga, you know, the one with the wheel. Yes.

(49:43 - 49:53)

So I did this until, you know, I was even. And then we went at it and you work till midnight and we tied. We both did 500.

(49:54 - 49:59)

Oh, wow. So you just don't see quit. You seem to be a fighter then.

(49:59 - 50:04)

I love it. I guess so. I didn't realize that because sometimes I do it over long term.

(50:05 - 50:16)

Sure. But I actually saw it in my daughter. You know, I didn't realize that she had gotten it for me because, you know, I didn't see myself as that.

(50:17 - 50:30)

But she's a little feisty herself. She's strong. A sand pile and slide back down and climb back up and try again and slide back down.

(50:30 - 50:39)

And at that point, most kids would be crying. Right. Just go right back at it again and keep at it and keep at it until she got it.

(50:39 - 50:44)

That's great. Yeah, that's that. You know, there's a spirit to that.

(50:44 - 50:55)

I mean, some people are just it's inert, you know, or innate, I guess. It's in them. She's still she's an environmental activist knocking them dead.

(50:55 - 51:04)

Oh, that's great. What company or what group is she with, if you know? She's a professor at Lehigh University. Okay.

(51:04 - 51:08)

Lehigh University. I'm very familiar with the Poconos and everything. So yeah, she's great.

(51:08 - 51:11)

Oh, she's 100 miles from Philly. Yeah, exactly. Very close.

(51:12 - 51:14)

Yeah. Through the Lehigh tunnel. I know it very well.

(51:15 - 51:31)

Anyway, and yeah, she's a professor there. Oh, great. Can you mention a son? So how many how many children do you have? Okay, so you ready? You want more stories? Stephen, I'm here.

(51:32 - 51:52)

So I mean, if you'd love to share, I'd love to hear it. So in Brina is my daughter, you know, that I helped raise. Janelle, who I've known for 17 years before we were married, our families were friends.

(51:53 - 51:58)

Her and her husband were friends. My wife and I went to each other's parties, etc. Right.

(52:00 - 52:13)

So she has two boys that I've known. The older one since he was a year old and the younger one since he was born. And I helped raise him because I got with him when he was 10.

(52:14 - 52:36)

And I consider both of them my sons. And then I have a stepson from my first wife who considers me his father and I consider him a son. And then, lo and behold, I find out I have a daughter that I didn't meet till she was 30.

(52:37 - 52:45)

From a woman that I had lived with in Ashbury and disappeared. Oh, my gosh, get out of here. Yeah.

(52:45 - 52:53)

And that put her up for adoption. Wow. And did she find you? Oh, my gosh.

(52:53 - 53:05)

So that must have been its own challenges. That must have been its own. What? That must have had its own challenges finding you, considering it's not like you had paperwork back then, you know, or the record keeping.

(53:06 - 53:17)

She, what happened at that time was kids, when they reach a certain age, were able to find out their biological parents information. Oh, okay. And so I didn't know that.

(53:17 - 53:21)

Yeah, I didn't know you could do that. So I'm not familiar with the whole process. So she found her mother.

(53:22 - 53:33)

And, you know, her mother, which was a horrible experience for her. Her mother was not, you know, didn't work out for her at all. Oh, that's unfortunate.

(53:33 - 53:54)

Told her that, but she had great, her parents who adopted her did a much better job than her mother or I ever could have done at the time. Right. And that's what's amazing about that, right? I mean, when you talk about giving up a child for the goodness of the child, I mean, it sounds like the mother had challenges.

(53:54 - 54:00)

Yes. And so she put the kid up for adoption. Whoever adopted her, I never met them.

(54:00 - 54:16)

They did a great job. She's a fantastic kid with an unbelievably wonderful husband and wonderful life. And so she, she found me through, because by this time I had a little name.

(54:17 - 54:32)

Yeah. And so she found me in, uh, through, uh, I guess the media, uh, and, uh, sent me an email. What year was this? If you don't mind me asking.

(54:33 - 54:37)

Uh, let's see. 96, 98. Wow.

(54:37 - 54:42)

So you've only known each other 15 years. Yes. Oh my God.

(54:42 - 55:07)

She sent a letter asking if I was, uh, you know, she said, hi, gave me a name and said, you know, did you live in San Francisco in 1967? So I wrote back and I said, yes, um, yes, I did. What is this about? And here's my phone number. I don't type very well.

(55:07 - 55:18)

So she called me the next morning. Oh, that's great. She told me she met her mother and mother told her that her father was lived in San Francisco in 1967.

(55:20 - 55:27)

Sometimes made his living as an artist. She wanted to know if I was her birth father. So I asked her mother's name.

(55:27 - 55:34)

I said, what's it depends what your mother's name is. Mother's name. I said, hi, it's dad.

(55:35 - 56:00)

So have you ever done any kind of actual testing or just, you know, you know, this is the case. Uh, so she, uh, her and her husband came down to visit us, my wife and I, and we had the whole family waiting. My daughter, the stepkids, my brother, you know, everybody was here to say welcome.

(56:01 - 56:14)

That's amazing. It sounds like your whole life has just been filled with love that you've cultivated and found over the years, you know? Yes. Well, you know, I think that's a lot to do with genes.

(56:15 - 56:27)

And I think we all have those genes somewhere in our family. And, and, and, and, and, uh, and people in our family growing up that give us that. Yeah.

(56:27 - 56:33)

They help cultivate it or they help encourage it or nurture it. Right. Keep it nurtured.

(56:33 - 56:36)

Yeah. So. Yeah.

(56:36 - 56:53)

I mean, I'm sorry. Go ahead, please. So, uh, you know, Leslie, you know, I got to know Leslie and, and, you know, she, she doesn't really see me as a dad because she was very close with her, you know, very close to our parents.

(56:53 - 57:08)

Absolutely. Take that away from her or usurp that or anything, you know? Well, I mean, I've heard the story about, you know, the father versus the dad, right? Kind of thing. Whereas like the father's like the biological giver of the maker of the baby.

(57:08 - 57:14)

That's all I am is the biology. I'm the, I'm the seed. But what's great is you were a dad to others too.

(57:14 - 57:21)

So it's not like you even knew first of all. Right. And secondly, you know, this turned out amazing in the backend.

(57:21 - 57:27)

No, it doesn't matter. And you know, I have a granddaughter. I have a grand, two grandchildren now.

(57:27 - 57:41)

The granddaughter is from my stepson. I fell in love with her the second I saw her after she was born, you know, which I saw her seconds after she was born. Is that the one that visited a week, a couple of weeks ago or? Yeah.

(57:41 - 57:44)

She lives half an hour away. Oh. Ivy.

(57:44 - 57:55)

She is just a little dream. And then her brother who, I mean, so, so this is from no blood, just the stepson. Right.

(57:55 - 58:15)

Her brother, my stepson married a woman who had a son with her first marriage. And, and that's all wonderful too, because that son Owen, his dad, you know, is, and you know, they're all close together. Right.

(58:16 - 58:25)

Anyway. And Owen is like this wonderful kid and considers me grandpa. You know, and that's what it's about though.

(58:25 - 58:34)

Right. I mean, it's about bringing people together. And he turns out to be, he's, he's 14, but he's a major athlete at his age.

(58:34 - 58:41)

That's great. What's his favorite sport or what's he like to play? I'm sorry, which one? Basketball. Basketball.

(58:42 - 58:50)

Okay. Good. It turns out is, is, uh, is his sandlot coach.

(58:50 - 59:05)

I don't know what you call it. Yeah. The sandlot coach put a lot of people in the NBA and even, even to his coach in high school was taught by this, this sandlot coach.

(59:05 - 59:08)

Oh, that's great. Yeah. One of those division UA.

(59:09 - 59:17)

A player on the, uh, the magic had seen him playing, went over to him and told him he liked this game. Oh, wow. That's impressive.

(59:18 - 59:29)

That's awesome. You know, like I said, I mean, it sounds, it sounds like you've surrounded yourself with love and, and you, you went through this phase of the sports, right? Sports and entertainment. Yes.

(59:29 - 59:44)

I have an Ali painting. I have a Billy Joel, I have a Travolta and I have the Brando, but I have the Brando godfather, not the, uh, the motorcycle, not which, um, Godfather was the first one. I, the godfather one.

(59:44 - 59:53)

So, um, so those are the ones I have. And now when I spoke with you or when you reached out, you were so kind to reply to me when I reached out to you. So thank you again.

(59:53 - 1:00:04)

Well, I thank you also. And you tell me about this. You've, you're at a new project or you, you've changed your style or your, your philosophy on, on your art.

(1:00:05 - 1:00:14)

Well, it's, you know, things in the sport world, sports world had changed. Things had changed for me. I was getting older.

(1:00:14 - 1:00:40)

I was, you know, I had gotten sick a lot and everything. And so I, one day I said to my wife, you know, uh, her business was, she had started a business. Uh, and she's, you know, and that, uh, you know, cause she felt a while back, she said, we shouldn't have all our eggs in one basket.

(1:00:41 - 1:00:44)

Yeah. That's smart. I mean, to diversify, right? So smart.

(1:00:45 - 1:00:50)

I have no idea how smart she is. She's your heart and your mind apparently. Right.

(1:00:51 - 1:01:10)

You know, for me, I would have rented a place and I made it a studio and lived in it. We now own a beautiful home in Southern California, you know, beautiful with a beautiful mountain view and, you know, just, uh, you know, a mile from the ocean. It's all her.

(1:01:10 - 1:01:14)

Yeah. Please, please keep telling me how phenomenal this is, Steve. I love to hear it.

(1:01:15 - 1:01:21)

I live in, I live in the sand, but it's a different sand. It's the desert sand. You need to come out here.

(1:01:22 - 1:01:26)

I would love to come out there, sir. Come out and visit. I'd be honored.

(1:01:26 - 1:01:28)

Thank you. Thank you. That I would be honored.

(1:01:28 - 1:01:32)

Thank you. I can't put you up at the moment. Like I said, that's okay.

(1:01:32 - 1:01:52)

You don't have a vacant bedroom, you know, I think, I think it's okay to share lunch before we get to hanging out, like at your house, right? Anyway, um, so, uh, I forgot. So your wife is your, who's the business manager who now has all, you have a beautiful home. Right.

(1:01:52 - 1:02:03)

She says to me, she says, well, why don't you just paint? I said, I should paint. Why don't I just pick, you know, nothing is selling very well. Why don't I just paint what I want? She said, you should paint what you want.

(1:02:04 - 1:02:21)

And so I started painting stuff that had been, you know, I had been messing with since I was in my early twenties. And, uh, I started, it just, you know, I never knew how to paint them. I knew how to draw them.

(1:02:21 - 1:02:28)

I just didn't know how to paint them. Okay. And then I came across this artist.

(1:02:29 - 1:02:44)

Uh, I don't remember how, but he's a artist, you know, half my age, but I loved what he did in his abstract paintings. And I said, I could paint my paintings like that. Oh, okay.

(1:02:44 - 1:02:49)

So take it from an abstract instead of a realistic perspective. Yes. Yes.

(1:02:49 - 1:03:09)

It just really started loosening me up. And I started, you know, I, I just started going berserk painting, drawing, you know, every day I, uh, you know, I get, I'm old, I get sick now and then. So it's not like I paint eight hours a day.

(1:03:09 - 1:03:27)

You know, it's more like three these days. Um, but I just, it's, I feel, you know, my wife is, is literally, you know, I have two best friends, my brother or three, my friend, Tony and my friend Hank. Okay.

(1:03:28 - 1:03:32)

And then I had my wife. Right. That's amazing.

(1:03:33 - 1:03:41)

So, so what, if you may, what is the name of this project or what is the name of the, the new style that you. Oh, the Long Neck Circus. My wife.

(1:03:41 - 1:03:47)

Long Neck Circus. She names all the paintings. Oh, she, she's the one who named them? Yes.

(1:03:47 - 1:03:51)

She names the paintings and she's came up with that. Okay. I love it.

(1:03:52 - 1:04:04)

And so, um, So it's, it's located at longneckcircus.com just for everyone to know. And I'll put that link in the description as well, but everyone can take a look at it. It's beautiful.

(1:04:04 - 1:04:11)

It's, it's so different. It's such a departure from what I recall. You're the art that I have, but it's beautiful in its own right.

(1:04:11 - 1:04:25)

It's also, um, on Instagram at longneckcircus.com. There's more there because I'm, I'm still really in the very early stages of my website. Okay. I will definitely put a link up to the Instagram as well.

(1:04:25 - 1:04:45)

And I think I followed it, but I'll, I'll do that as well. But the old website is on this stevenhollandstudios.com. Okay. stevenhollandstudios.com. So, and so, um, what this stuff, what the new work is about is, is it's fun.

(1:04:47 - 1:05:12)

It's, uh, about my feelings. There's a bunch of social commentary, um, uh, about, well, I, I, I don't think I'm the only one who feels there's a lot of social commentary to be made as four years, five years. I would think there needs to be, I, you know, I think we just need to open for conversation instead of argument to start.

(1:05:12 - 1:05:22)

Can we start there? Right. But you're right. Look, there's no, there's no light shine showing on any social problem until someone does it.

(1:05:22 - 1:05:38)

So, you know, someone has to break that egg to make the omelet. Right. But right now it doesn't seem that it seems like, uh, uh, I mean, I don't know much about politics.

(1:05:39 - 1:05:50)

I mean, I really don't, I know a lot of my thoughts. But you know, people, and that's important. I would analyze, but I don't have very many facts.

(1:05:50 - 1:06:01)

Like if I talk to my daughter, she knows all of it. She would know dates and times and what's going on. She's, she, uh, oh yeah.

(1:06:01 - 1:06:33)

So do you have any specific, um, causes that really speak to you that, that you wanted to address? Um, I get, well, first of all, as it turns out, you know, art wise, I find out when I'm painting now for the most part, even when I'm making social commentary, I don't dance very well. I listen to music a lot. I don't dance very well in my studio.

(1:06:33 - 1:06:54)

Right. When I paint, it's like all this movement and rhythm comes out in what I'm painting. And I feel like I, I guess what I was trying to say earlier was because my wife works at home and I work at home, I feel like I'm hanging out and I'm having so much fun.

(1:06:54 - 1:07:05)

I feel that I'm hanging out in the playground with my best friends at seven years old. Right. You know, just all day long.

(1:07:05 - 1:07:09)

It's like a regression without actually regressing. Right. You actually live it.

(1:07:09 - 1:07:20)

You're actually living your youthful life. Right. And so, you know, I guess if you call us, you could call it abstract, you could call it carnivalesque.

(1:07:21 - 1:07:28)

Uh, it's very cartoon-like. It's playful. It's, uh, it's colorful.

(1:07:28 - 1:07:31)

It's light. It's lighthearted. But it does have messages.

(1:07:32 - 1:07:37)

Like I saw the hug and the, just, it's beautiful. Right. The messages are really pretty.

(1:07:37 - 1:07:49)

Messages usually, sometimes, like, like the hug that you talked about, that didn't start out as a message. That started out as a bunch of kids playing. Oh, really? Yes.

(1:07:49 - 1:08:01)

And then, you know, and then I noticed this and that. And it was just, and all of a sudden I said, wait a second. And then I started adding a few things to, to make it political.

(1:08:01 - 1:08:12)

That's funny. And very often my work is just starts out with a visual idea. And then I go, oh, that's what I was trying to say.

(1:08:12 - 1:08:22)

Okay. So a lot of times you actually workshop it as the idea just comes to you and then you kind of mold it in a clay way and then finally put it out. Say this would make a nice painting.

(1:08:22 - 1:08:38)

Oh, so it's almost like, it's like a sculpture, but on canvas, like you have the idea and then you mold it slowly over time. Well, sometimes I'll do it in a sketch, but I'll just start with a figure and then it goes from there. That's beautiful.

(1:08:39 - 1:08:52)

It's amazing. Cause I, I, I don't have that artistic eye. I know what I like, but I just don't, I can't imagine the vision that you have, the, the filter through which you see the world.

(1:08:52 - 1:09:02)

It's no different than yours. I just happened to have a, and it's truly a gift. You know, it is a gift because it is given for sure.

(1:09:02 - 1:09:18)

All you can do is work the field exactly as you can. You know, that's your job is you've been given this field to work on just the same as if someone gave you, you know, plot of land. Yeah.

(1:09:18 - 1:09:34)

You just, you just work it as hard as you can. It took me, it certainly doesn't come easily. I actually, you know, I actually learned that I was not into sports early on and I, you know, cause I couldn't play.

(1:09:34 - 1:09:57)

Right. So I played a little bit at football when I, when I, the handicap was over. But, uh, when I was in, in my mid thirties, um, I took an art class in the city college where I live and I had such a good time doing it.

(1:09:57 - 1:10:24)

The teacher there had taught this technique that I had never learned. It was just an art one, eight, one-on-one technique, but I just had so much fun doing it that, and this was back in their late seventies. Uh, and I couldn't find any books, you know, in those days you couldn't find any books with new figures in it, men or women, except that they were standing very stiff.

(1:10:25 - 1:10:30)

Right. You know, or, or I guess there was hardcore porn. It's never been my... I guess.

(1:10:30 - 1:10:32)

Yeah. But there wasn't really a naturalness to it. Right.

(1:10:32 - 1:10:53)

I guess. That was never my route anyway, but I got these boxing magazines because you could see most of the figure and I just had this such a great time doing these drawings from these sports figures that I started that I said, well, I like football. Let me try football.

(1:10:54 - 1:10:59)

And I just, then that was fun. So I tried basketball, baseball. I went through all the sports.

(1:11:01 - 1:11:19)

And because I had, this was when I was still not very together at all. And the, I was the, the, uh, what do you call it? Uh, um, I'm trying to think for a second. That's okay.

(1:11:20 - 1:11:41)

Uh, oh yeah. The, the, I had these sports magazines around, so I started reading them because they would And I started noticing how hard the athletes worked and the bell went off. And I said, dang, this is how hard you have to work to be successful.

(1:11:42 - 1:11:49)

Yes. This is what you have to do to be successful. So I started learning how to discipline myself.

(1:11:50 - 1:12:07)

That's, that's an amazing lesson. And so I started doing that and I started doing that. And actually, when I got together with my first wife and I said, you know, when you want to go someplace, there's a story.

(1:12:07 - 1:12:20)

You go half the distance and you know, if you're not, if you have trouble, you go half the distance and you go half the distance again and you go half the distance again. That kind of gets you towards the, you know, gets you started. Yeah.

(1:12:21 - 1:12:31)

It's kind of, it's kind of like the journey of a thousand miles, right? It starts with the single step. Well, it's the first step, but you never get there going half the distance. You've got to go all the way.

(1:12:31 - 1:12:44)

Right. And so I said, this woman, my, you know, who I'm with now, I want this to work more than anything. I've, I met her the first second I met her.

(1:12:44 - 1:12:49)

I had a crush on her. We were married to other people. I didn't mess around.

(1:12:49 - 1:12:57)

I just, you know, I wasn't going that route. Right. But we were friends and I always had a little crush for her.

(1:12:58 - 1:13:06)

I only had a chance to get together with her. I said, boy, I'm putting my best everything forward. Yeah.

(1:13:06 - 1:13:13)

You have to give it all right. I just said, I know what to do to be successful. I want this to work.

(1:13:13 - 1:13:21)

This is lady has class. And if I want this to work, I gotta, I gotta rise to the occasion. And I did.

(1:13:21 - 1:13:26)

And how many years have you been married now? 34. 34. Congratulations on that.

(1:13:26 - 1:13:45)

We, and we did a lot of work. We've had our problems, but we spend all day, every day together for most of 30 years. And we hardly, I mean, for the last, I don't know, 10, 15, 20 years, we hardly ever have a harsh word.

(1:13:46 - 1:13:50)

It's beautiful. I know. I think, I think it's nice to find kind people.

(1:13:51 - 1:13:55)

Yeah, it is. It certainly helps. Right.

(1:13:55 - 1:14:03)

Yes. Well, before we call it a day, I mean, we're, we're almost, we're over an hour, almost an hour and a half into this, Steve. Okay.

(1:14:03 - 1:14:19)

Before we call it a day. I mean, thank you again so much for, for spending, sharing your time with me. I'm blessed because you are someone I look up to and anyone who I look up to who is so gracious in giving their time or sharing their time with me.

(1:14:19 - 1:14:22)

I'm so grateful. So thank you. Well, thank you.

(1:14:22 - 1:14:31)

I mean, it's hard to hear looking up to, cause you know, whatever it is, I still feel like that little kid. I love it. I think that's what makes you great.

(1:14:32 - 1:14:36)

It's kind of like they talk about greatness. People, great people don't have to tell you they're great. They just do it.

(1:14:36 - 1:14:45)

There's one more story I'd like to tell. Please. Um, most people won't believe this story, but it's, it's true.

(1:14:45 - 1:14:56)

And it's from me and it's not about anybody else, but me. Uh, so it's not a story I heard when I first hand account. I love it.

(1:14:56 - 1:15:19)

This is, this is the juicy stuff, right? When I first decided to, to get off the drugs, uh, I called the Swami, Swami Satyananda. And said that, you know, he knew my story. And I said, I really, you know, I was about to screw up the worst thing and the best thing in my life.

(1:15:21 - 1:15:44)

And, and the, you know, are doing the worst thing in my life. And I said, I, I, I needed help stopping cause, so he said, uh, come out to the ashram in Virginia. They have a, uh, an ashram called Satyananda ashram, Yogaville in Buckingham, Virginia.

(1:15:44 - 1:15:54)

He said, come out here. And yes, I can help you. So I said, well, you know, I've been using every day, all day for the last year, unbeknownst to my wife.

(1:15:56 - 1:16:04)

And, uh, I'm really afraid of being sick from drug sick. Can you fix it? So I don't get sick. I knew he was a healer.

(1:16:05 - 1:16:08)

Right. So you meant like the withdrawal, correct? Yes. I meant.

(1:16:08 - 1:16:13)

Okay. Cause heroin, the withdrawal is where it is pretty. Yes.

(1:16:13 - 1:16:15)

Violent. Horrible. Yeah.

(1:16:15 - 1:16:26)

And so he said, yes, he would. And so I went out to the ashram and I met him. There were a few people there.

(1:16:26 - 1:16:47)

I knew a lot of people there cause I had lived in that community and knew through the years been involved with it in one form or another. And so they took me to him and he looked at the people and he says, this is my dear child. He said, he's not been well, he's come here to get healed.

(1:16:47 - 1:16:56)

And I want you all to help him. You know, they were, you know, a few of the heads of different parts of it. And so they said, sure.

(1:16:57 - 1:17:10)

Then he looked at me and he said, uh, don't worry. He said, if things get bad, you'll see why I remember this like this. He said, if things get bad, we have a hole.

(1:17:10 - 1:17:22)

We can throw you it. I said, Oh, I said, you said I wasn't even going to get sick. And so he said, don't worry, you won't die easing me.

(1:17:23 - 1:17:34)

And I said, you know, he said a hole and I said, don't worry. And that's when I said to him, uh, you said, I wasn't, he said, don't worry. You won't get die.

(1:17:35 - 1:18:02)

I said, you said, I wasn't even going to get sick. What do you mean die? So he looked at me, he squeezed my shoulder, twinkled at me and he said, you'll be all right. And I was there for three weeks and the only drug withdrawal symptom that I had was that I couldn't sleep most of the time, you know, all of it.

(1:18:02 - 1:18:04)

I was there. I just couldn't. You're just restless.

(1:18:05 - 1:18:09)

I just, yeah, no, I literally couldn't, couldn't. Yeah. Yeah.

(1:18:09 - 1:18:21)

Insomnia basically. And so that's a little better than the shakes though, isn't it? I mean, I mean, I didn't feel great, right. But it was, nothing was going in.

(1:18:21 - 1:18:41)

None of the other stuff was happening. And so after three days, uh, he put me on a fast with an intestinal cleanse. And then one morning, a week after I started to fast about four in the morning, I sat up in bed just, and I felt like a fever broke.

(1:18:42 - 1:18:51)

And I said to myself, I said, God, I'm, God, I'm really feeling better. I feel so weak. God, I feel weak.

(1:18:51 - 1:19:06)

Anyway, I laid back down three hours later, I go downstairs. I spoke to him every day or saw him every day. And I pick up the phone to call his, you know, I punched in the numbers to his connection.

(1:19:06 - 1:19:14)

He picked up the phone before he said a word. He said, ah, Steven. So you're feeling better.

(1:19:14 - 1:19:20)

So, but you're very, very weak. See, I've been looking in on you. I swear to God.

(1:19:21 - 1:19:38)

And then he said to me, he said, all the drugs are out of your system. You will, uh, uh, if someone tied you down and injected you, your body would reject it. You, you will never crave the drug again.

(1:19:39 - 1:19:49)

And I will always be there between you and the drug. And 30 years later, never, ever have I had a craving. Not even a craving.

(1:19:49 - 1:20:02)

Not even a craving. I would run into, you know, I even had a situation where I allowed someone to use my house to smoke heroin because otherwise they would have done it in the street. And they were a friend.

(1:20:03 - 1:20:07)

Right. You know, you didn't want to see them get hurt there. I watched them.

(1:20:07 - 1:20:21)

And it was, it was like, you know, I would have a cup of coffee with my connection if I ran into him and down. It was an old lover that you couldn't live without. And all of a sudden it's just not there anymore.

(1:20:22 - 1:20:27)

Wow. You just completely had apathy almost towards it. You just didn't feel anything.

(1:20:27 - 1:20:29)

Nothing. Wow. That's amazing.

(1:20:30 - 1:20:38)

So everyone's watching is basically what happens. I don't know. He just, you know, he was a healer.

(1:20:38 - 1:20:44)

He was a holy man. Yes. I've been, I've had experiences that have opened my eyes to some things.

(1:20:44 - 1:20:51)

And I'm still trying to work them out, trying to figure out what it is. You know, I'm once again, I'm blessed. I'm blessed.

(1:20:51 - 1:20:57)

I'm so grateful again for your time. He said it's a matter of faith. That makes sense.

(1:20:58 - 1:21:04)

George Michael always said you have to have faith. So well, thank you. Thank you.

(1:21:04 - 1:21:19)

Thank you for letting me talk and, and, and, and, you know, verbalize some of this stuff going on with me. Well, Steve, thank you again so much. I'm so grateful and blessed to, for you to have that time with me to share your time with me.

(1:21:19 - 1:21:37)

Well, thank you. Knocked Conscious world, everyone out there, Twitter world, Twitter universe. Please go to long neck circus.com. That is Steven's newest art, but it's also stevenhollandstudios.com. It's P H E N, not V. But Stephen, thank you again.