Join us for an explosive conversation with Scott Horton, author of Provoked: How Washington Started the New Cold War with Russia and the Catastrophe in Ukraine. Horton pulls no punches as he unravels the hidden history of U.S. foreign policy blunders, NATO expansion, and the calculated moves that ignited tensions with Russia—culminating in the devastating war in Ukraine. From backstage power plays to the human cost of geopolitical chess, this episode dives deep into the untold story of how we got here and what it means for the future. If you think you know the truth about the ‘new Cold War,’ think again—this is a wake-up call you won’t forget.
Transcript:
(0:00) All right. Well, good evening everybody. I’m Jacob Winograd, host of the Biblical Anarchy podcast here at the Libertarian Christian Institute (0:07) Here with Mark Puls from Knocked Conscious and of course the one and only Scott Horton (0:12) And we’re here for a special sort of, you know, kind of finale.Unfortunately (0:17) Sean can’t be with us tonight, but we wanted to we did our seven week book club series on (0:24) This hold on if I can this this book weighs a ton. So it takes two hands to hold in hand (0:29) You got yours mark. Yeah provoked (0:32) we did a book club here over at (0:34) LCI and I was joined by by Mark and Sean over the last few months going through this book (0:40) which was been awesome, and we thought a great way to sort of (0:43) Book end of this was to have Scott on for sort of a final discussion on not just the last section (0:50) That we have to go through yet (0:51) but just the entirety of the book and also just gives you to talk to him about the whirlwind that (0:57) You have probably been going through with the reception of this book because (1:01) you have really blown up over the last few months from it, but uh (1:05) First of all Scott.Thanks for being here. How are you doing? How’s how is uh? (1:09) What what what is the reception been like on your end? Do you think it’s been mostly positive or? (1:14) negative mixed bag. Oh (1:17) Yeah.Well, first of all, thank you both very much for (1:20) Having me tonight and for all your interest in this thing and the whole book club (1:25) Deal that you’ve done here on behalf of the book and all that I can’t tell you how much I appreciate all that and then (1:32) You know, that’s essentially a microcosm of the whole thing. I mean the reactions really been great (1:38) Which is good because I hate writing books and (1:41) They take just forever and this thing was such a slog and the whole time I was thinking (1:47) Well them bad words better like this thing, you know, which is that’s the same thing (1:52) I thought on my first book that I wrote about Afghanistan as well. Like man, I sure hope that there’s some bang for this buck.So (2:00) Yeah, no, it’s been really great. If Jimmy Carter hadn’t died and David Chappelle hadn’t talked about it on Saturday night live (2:07) And boosted Jimmy Carter’s book up to number one for just a few weeks there (2:12) Then I still would have been uncontested the number one (2:16) In more in peace on Amazon this whole time for three and a half months now (2:21) And (2:22) Thanks, and you know, I’m still top 1,000 in (2:29) In books on Amazon and top wait, I had that right no, no (2:34) Wait, yeah, cuz it’s like top 40. I’m still top 40 in all history books, and I think I’m like (2:42) The other day I was like (2:43) 700 and something in all books on Amazon which at one point that got up to like the top (2:51) 400 I think (2:53) At the at the at the height of the book when it first came out (2:56) I was at like number 262 on the whole website something like that (3:00) so (3:01) yeah, anyway, so yeah, it’s been really great and then (3:05) You know just like you guys with this (3:08) with this (3:09) You know book club project.It’s taken everybody months to get through the thing (3:13) I mean some people just devour the hell out of it right away kind of back in November and December where but (3:18) For most people it’s not that easy to devote that much time to a project like that (3:22) so the reviews from readers mostly are kind of trickling in now and (3:29) It’s been very gratifying to see that for example, you know when the stuff is in the news and (3:36) People are commenting on Twitter. I see a lot of accounts that are not people I know but are just (3:41) You know strangers from out there saying no. No.No, you got to read this book (3:47) So in other words, you know, it’s the word is really getting around kind of the word of mouth of the thing (3:52) It’s just published by the little old Libertarian Institute. And so we don’t have some big publishing PR firm type deal (3:59) I don’t know all the correct ways to get it in the right catalogs to get it out into (4:06) The public my other books are on Barnes and Noble (4:09) I don’t know why this one isn’t like I haven’t figured that out yet (4:12) Haven’t put out a hardback yet. Haven’t finished the audiobook yet.Still all that’s still in progress and (4:18) but anyway, so (4:20) Yeah, I don’t know (4:22) it’s pretty gratifying to see and then (4:25) Criticism has one to watch it unfold like in real time almost as this is white kind of winding down as we’re reading it (4:32) And then sax jumps on and kind of reaffirms everything and almost says short synopsis of exactly what you wrote about (4:40) Yeah, well, yeah, it’s funny about that because (4:44) He’s the only good guy that I bad-mouthed in the book because he played some role in the shock therapy thing (4:49) But I also tell his side of the story which is like hey that part wasn’t my fault as best as I could to you (4:55) Know which I think is largely right (4:57) He said he was he said he was shunned from even he was told to leave the room I think or something (5:02) So he’s trying to like distance himself from a lot of that shock shock (5:07) Shock there. Yeah, you know and I (5:10) I (5:10) Didn’t approach that, right? (5:11) I remember I actually sent him an email asking him to comment on some of the stuff and (5:16) then I realized only because I had a pile of 1 trillion tabs open and I realized later that like oh I (5:23) Had his essay what I did in Russia. Oh, I had that tab open, but I just hadn’t gotten to it yet (5:29) And I totally forgotten about it been there sitting there for months waiting for me to finally get around to read it (5:33) So I absolutely should have read that first and then gone back and reread all of his old stuff because I found you know (5:39) He has on his website (5:41) Op-eds and things that he wrote back then (5:44) Saying man, if we don’t get rid of this communist head of the Central Bank (5:47) We’re never gonna get you know, be able to beat inflation and whatever whatever, you know what I mean? (5:52) So, um, I wish I had taken all that into account and understood all that (5:57) Well before I ever contacted him for comment about it and whatever (6:00) It’s like kind of get the idea head and like me anymore and the thing is is I know that he knows all of this (6:07) stuff like for example, I (6:09) First really became aware of him mostly (6:13) During the Syria war 10 12 13 years ago (6:18) Where he was as far as people who had that story right about who was who and what was going on and how crazy it? (6:24) All was he was the most prominent guy who knew what he was talking about who was allowed on TV (6:30) He would go on morning Joe and say the truth.He’s the only guy allowed (6:34) Other than Dave Smith on them se cup show on CNN at the time (6:38) But essentially that was it and he was great on it. Really great. So I (6:44) Give him credit because I know he knows all the same stuff as me, but then sometimes when I hear him talking (6:49) I’m like, hey, you have been reading my book do cuz like I don’t know maybe not (6:55) But uh, it is funny to watch it though once again like (6:59) With sex it is pretty funny.Just watching him kind of just clearly and you’re like wait, I heard that somewhere (7:04) We hear this. I’m weird. He’s like wait, I you know, and he and he talks back even Vietnam before, you know prior to this (7:11) And look I’m now he’s hated by Democrats.So I’m (7:15) Journalist on this stuff, right? Like my my book is all a compilation of everybody else’s journalism. So it’s not exactly a unique take (7:22) It’s just the truth, right? (7:23) So but then like when he’s on Tucker Carlson (7:26) I can swear that he just read enough already and provoked and he’s just telling my story to the dude and I’m just like (7:33) Oh, man, but I know that’s probably really not right (7:35) It’s just he sounds exactly like me only a lot of the time he can say yeah (7:40) It was my friend who did it and then I went there and they admitted it to me and you know (7:44) This kind of thing which is something that he had told me in an interview years ago that after for example (7:50) the fake revolution of (7:51) 2014 that he went to Kiev and all the NGO guys took him on a tour around (7:56) Where he were they bragged about it and said we were the ones who did it and whatever. So (8:03) Anyway, I don’t know.That’s a tour that JD Vance talked about right that that golden tour that thing had to walk him around (8:09) Yeah, you know what? I did too though with the sacks is (8:14) When I first sent the PDF out to be reviewed by friends (8:19) The first paragraph of (8:22) the shock therapy section (8:24) was poorly written and wrong and had him like being part of a thing under gore which was not right that all came later and (8:34) So I my assumption was he read that and was a cycle screw this, you know (8:39) this is stupid if he doesn’t even know that and he’s gonna sit here and get me wrong on something which as soon as I (8:44) Sent it. I was like, oh (8:46) That’s I don’t know if it was as soon as is I (8:49) Don’t remember exactly but it’s pretty soon after that. Anyway that I realized a chance to reach out to him about it.Yeah (8:56) No, I haven’t talked to him (8:58) I think I tried to send him a conciliatory email like trying to apologize for whatever whatever, but he never got back to me (9:04) But whatever man anyway point is I’m just glad everybody’s you know out there saying the same thing as me because I’m right (9:11) And so it’s just helping to reinforce (9:15) You know the the overall narrative that actually this is the correct take not the other one, you know same as like (9:25) Pierce Morgan had (9:27) Jeffrey Sachs on and then me and then the next day Dave and (9:31) Then you know, I think the next day another guy who was good on I forget exactly like so then (9:36) You could say well, this is just redundant. Like why have Sachs and Horton and Smith all on in a row (9:41) But then the idea my thing is like no (9:44) that’s great because the truth is everyone ought to be able to see that nobody can really step to us when it comes to the (9:50) Facts and argument nobody knows it better than we do and we’re the ones who are right and they’re left (9:54) Unable to answer our questions at the end (9:57) You’re still watching beers. Just circle the drain.What are you doing, man? (10:02) So we should have had minato earlier. So we should have given more force earlier, dude. Come on, man.It’s played out (10:08) Right and you know what as long as I’m, you know rambling about that (10:12) I think the same is true for Israel and Palestine, too (10:15) You know people act like the right wing has to just be completely gay married to Israel forever. But why? (10:22) There’s no real reason why and you remember it was difficult very difficult for the American right to get over the war in Iraq (10:29) They even supported torture of W Bush told them. Of course, we support torture.It’s not torture (10:34) but of course (10:34) It’s torture and of course we support it all good American Patriots do and they had a hard time breaking from that and saying (10:41) Ah, geez, we were wrong about that or that wouldn’t me (10:43) That was my my friends all agreed with that, but I don’t remember supporting that war, you know (10:48) Whatever to make that break, but when they did one that broke me my friend. I’m 50 (10:52) So that’s the one where I was enlisting in, you know, 97 just miss a physical and then all my friends (10:59) You know everybody else when then I was like, what is this in hindsight? (11:02) I was all I had a hey sit on this scuds for you t-shirt (11:05) Yeah (11:06) Like I remember like 16 like running around the first Kuwait invasion and gas being a dollar fifty a dollar fifty (11:13) I was going crazy. It was like 50 cents more than it was or something, you know (11:18) How does it propagandized Iraq war one operation yellow ribbon? (11:22) Which was it was like more about us than it was anything going on over there (11:25) It was getting Americans conditioned back in to be in the global policeman at that time was and they said that was a huge part (11:31) Of it.We got to beat the Vietnam Syndrome (11:33) We got to give them a short victorious war to get the people’s head straight about America’s responsibility to fight wars forever (11:41) after Vietnam, but (11:43) It’s so funny watching you on (11:46) Sort of like a tour of debates and appearances now (11:49) almost semi-regular on the Piers Morgan show since the book came out and like people run into you and like you’re seeing this weird like (11:57) Like I don’t know what to think about the corporate media if it’s dying or if it’s just like like a corpse that like (12:04) Doesn’t realize it’s dead or something and it comes into clash with you and you see these people (12:09) I don’t know what to do because they’re used to having (12:13) Control of the narrative and people not knowing the facts like your debate with with a Nile Ferguson (12:19) Which is actually funny because that aired the last time you were on this show (12:23) But like I went and watched that and it was just like it’s so funny why it’s like watching a bunny like (12:31) jump into like a like a (12:33) Like a wood chipper, right? I mean, it’s just like he just you know says things doesn’t have any idea who you are (12:39) Just really, you know just pulls out the typical, you know, like oh, it’s unfortunate that mr. Horton repeated some (12:47) You know Putin Kremlin talking points there and just like okay and you’re and like, you know your stuff (12:54) So you’re just eat like where other people would just get flustered and be like, oh wow (12:58) I mean like I’m just anti-war but maybe I’m falling, you know victim to some propaganda (13:04) You’re able to actually like go. No, this isn’t Kremlin talking points (13:08) Here are all the people who said like I think he brought that up when you said the whole you know (13:13) It was promised not to expand NATO and here’s all the details. He was like, oh, it’s just one (13:19) Conversation in a series of conversations.You were like, okay. Actually, no, it was like, you know (13:25) Ten conversations with a bunch of different people over a long period of time and people kept bringing it up later on as well (13:31) and referencing it so I (13:33) Mean, it’s just crazy (13:34) Like what like I’m sure that has to be a little bit surreal for you (13:38) Like you would think at some point the people would at least (13:41) Make the propaganda more (13:44) Sophisticated maybe like, you know realize that they can’t just revert to like a couple talking points (13:51) To just scare people into compliance. I mean, what are your thoughts on that? (13:56) Well, I mean, I appreciate if you think that they’re gonna have to adapt some because of something I said (14:01) But I think you know (14:03) I’m reminded when you’re talking here about my first debate was against a low-tier neocon named Harvey Kushner (14:09) Well, I actually had never heard of before at the time, but he was like some (14:15) You know pala Frank Gaffney or some scumbag like that, you know, and I debated met Texas A&M in (14:22) 2008 like right before the election of 08.I’m pretty sure it was yeah (14:25) Yeah, cuz I’m like, yeah now there’s economic crash coming and Barack Obama’s just like John McCain and all that is in the debate (14:31) but um (14:33) See when I first started doing the interview show (14:36) It was on pirate radio and on top of that like punk rock pirate radio where all my friends are just drinking Lone Star (14:43) I’m playing their friends bands and having a good time up there and I had you know, I was mr (14:48) Politics boy with the interview, you know anti-war show and all that (14:54) But then (14:54) Just a couple of different times. I interviewed some bad guys and I would always kick their ass (15:00) And then they would say because they’re bad guys, I guess it’s just built in they go. Oh, yeah (15:06) well (15:06) I’m gonna call the FCC on you because I know a friend that works at the FCC and we’re gonna look into this (15:11) 95.9 FM man, man, man, because that’s just how they are (15:15) They’re bitches and that’s how they react to getting beat down (15:18) So then I thought well (15:20) I can’t get my friends radio station in trouble by picking a fight with these kooks and really (15:26) Like what people really need to hear is what Gareth Porter has to say everybody already heard all the Hawks sail their crap all day (15:33) They can you know, they can always find the other side of the story (15:37) But I really just want to have Gareth Porter on to talk about what’s true and let that be you know (15:42) And then he ain’t gonna call the cops on me and my friends for doing a radio (15:46) having a radio station so (15:49) But then sorry long story long.Is that then by? (15:55) 2008 (15:56) when I debated Kushner at (15:58) Texas A&M I (16:00) Hadn’t really been tested against any bad guys in a while (16:03) And I kind of thought I knew some things about a rock war too and why I didn’t like it and whatever (16:10) But how would I actually do up against? (16:13) You know educated guy from the other side. I didn’t really know and (16:18) When I went up there, in fact, it’s funny. I’m only remembering this now that we’re talking about (16:23) We kind of spoke before the thing and he let me know how you know (16:27) What a big shot he was and how he had a PhD and all this stuff and I told him well (16:31) I dropped out of community college.I’m sure you’ll have no problem with me, you know (16:35) And then I kicked his ass. The only thing was I got stoned and so in the first (16:39) Answer I spaced out forgot what the hell I was talking about. And then I was like, oh, yeah.No democracy (16:43) Oh, yeah, you put the Shiites in charge and you call that democracy (16:46) Well, that’s just two wolves and a lamb boating on what’s for lunch, buddy (16:49) Blah-blah-blah and then I was okay again, but I that was my only real scrub and then at the end (16:54) he refused to even shake my hand because I beat his ass so bad talking about how Israel helped to create Hamas to divide and (16:59) conquer the Palestinians and whatever and he was just (17:03) Destroyed and that was like he was my first little Bill Crystal like trial run there, I guess, you know (17:09) Bill Crystal was my was my go-to and now it’s funny because you mentioned pirate radio too now (17:14) I was like this new controversy where you come up you come up out of John Dvorak and Adam Curry’s mouth now (17:21) I don’t know if you heard them talking smack (17:23) I’m sure Dave mentioned it to you, but I think they brought it up and I’m like what’s going on here (17:28) I would feel you guys would be kind of aligned here (17:30) So well, what’s funny is I I believe them that they’ve never heard of me (17:34) But I actually used to be on the no agenda stream. My show came on right after theirs in like 2012 2013 somewhere around there (17:42) and (17:45) So, I guess you know, I never talked to either of them I had only spoken to I don’t remember the guy’s name now (17:51) They had two or three of their guys that worked for them (17:54) Who you know I had dealt with and then they want to start charging me for being on there and I was like, yeah (17:59) Well, that ain’t gonna happen. So I just went off but uh (18:02) So I think that’s kind of funny that I was actually on the no agenda stream thing for a while back a decade ago (18:07) And they still had no idea who I am anyway, and then (18:12) You know, I don’t know they didn’t really understand who I am or what I was talking about (18:17) They acted like because I was complaining about Bob Woodward (18:20) I always this always bothers me when people do this like oh, you’re just figuring this out for the first time even though (18:28) like (18:29) Quite likely nothing.You said indicated that you’re only figuring out whatever thing that you’re saying for the first time (18:36) Just now you’re just saying it. Yeah, Bob Woodward, you know is bad (18:40) Unquote sometimes. Oh, you’re just figuring this out.Well, did I say I was just figuring this out or what? (18:46) What a weird thing to criticize me for. I mean the lore is that (18:50) He just completely lied and pretended that he got these quotes from William Casey on his deathbed in the hospital back in (18:57) 1983 or whatever and I’ve known that like since 89 or something like I’ve known that my whole life (19:03) Oh Bob Woodward the guy who made up quotes of Bill Casey when he was in a coma, you know on death’s door (19:10) Yeah, right. He just happened to confirm everything Woodward wanted to wanted him to or whatever (19:14) It was deep throat with deep throat Scott, but deep throat (19:18) broke it, but the thing is (19:21) Like whatever man, Bob Woodward is still somewhat useful sometimes like in Bush at war (19:27) I mean a lot of that is just straight reproducing the transcripts of the notes of the National Security Council meetings (19:34) And he didn’t take him (19:35) It’s the note takers that work for the White House that took the notes and W Bush told them act give everything to Bob (19:41) We like Bob and so he just republished him.And so there you can see (19:45) Donald Rumsfeld saying we have to bomb the Taliban as well as al-qaeda (19:49) Not al-qaeda and exclude the Taliban because we want to make the war bigger so we can keep it going longer (19:56) So we can take it to Baghdad (19:58) Guys if we win the war now and the American people think the war is already won (20:03) Then how in the hell are we ever gonna go after Saddam Hussein and like all of this stuff is wrong right in there (20:08) right these conversations, so (20:11) That stuff is useful. And then other times he’s quoting (20:15) whichever officials his book on (20:18) What’s it called his Obama it’s called Obama’s Wars, but it’s not about Obama’s Wars at all (20:23) It’s about McChrystal and Petraeus and Mullen and them rolling Obama and forcing him to escalate (20:30) Afghanistan in the year 2009 (20:32) That’s what the whole book is about and it’s full of all kinds of you know (20:36) juicy quotes that then these principles never contradicted they never said hey, I never said that or what and (20:42) so like I don’t know you can’t if it ain’t gospel, but (20:48) Like some of its useful, you know throw out every Bob Woodward book like he has access (20:52) He gets to talk to the principles of the National Security Council (20:56) You know at the highest level and and and sometimes for days at a time (21:00) Right, and that’s where the manufacturing consent comes in, right? (21:04) It’s like if you don’t play ball within a certain range, you’re out of those meetings, right? (21:08) So you gotta be in to do that, right? (21:11) That’s right (21:11) And look it doesn’t mean that everything that he says that they said is true and it doesn’t mean that what they said is true (21:17) but it just means that (21:20) The truth is Bob Woodward said they said this and that has a certain amount of value to it anyway, right like that (21:27) It’s like when you had your two conversations was generally (21:32) General Wesley Clark and it was like you guys are having a debate (21:36) But it’s almost like the only debate is on the conclusions you make on the facts that you pretty much 100% agree upon (21:42) Like in both your conversations, it’s not like he ever said (21:46) Well, actually Scott you got this wrong and I was there and I know better than you and I can say no (21:50) It’s just pretty much you bring up stuff and he’d be like, yeah, that’s right (21:54) And then you he’d bring up stuff. He’d be like, yeah, that’s right (21:57) and then it’d be like he’d be like and then he’d be like so don’t you agree that like (22:01) We kind of provoked this and we need to take a different track with doing this and he’d be like, oh well (22:08) Yeah, but we just can’t let Russia get away with it, which is just like, you know a very non-committal answer (22:13) But it’s funny because when you go up against someone like that like someone like generally general Wesley Clark is also someone who’s (22:20) Useful to cite even though he’s not, you know coming to the right conclusion (22:24) Right and look so back to seven countries in five years is one of the greatest things and then I hear him talk to you (22:28) I’m peers and he’s out of his mind (22:31) Yeah out of his mind.Well, he did confirm that that was all about Israel (22:35) That was the clean break plan was that same plan that we’re talking about which you know, Amy (22:40) They dusted it back off right it brought back up to me (22:43) It kept was it Wolfowitz right kept rolling back up kept rolling back up right or something. Yeah, and (22:49) and then so but look so speaking of Bill Kristol is (22:53) You know, I did great in that debate. Whatever.The thing is Bill Kristol completely failed (22:59) right, like if you were a (23:02) dues-paying member of the war party (23:04) You’d be pissed that the boss dropped the ball that bad up against that punk from anti-war.com. You know what I mean? (23:10) Um, so (23:12) But maybe that was just his weakness and maybe Harvey Kushner’s weakness (23:17) but then I what Wesley Clark to (23:21) as he said like that wasn’t as happy on light that one is much like (23:25) Even though like he helped lead a war (23:28) I can’t really like there’s not as deep a vendetta as there is against Bill Kristol who you know helped to (23:35) You know just for the things that he said about Ron Paul alone, right? (23:40) Like I owed him a vendetta on behalf of us all and that kind of thing (23:44) Whereas one who serves I will say someone who serves at least puts their money where their mouth is (23:49) Like I I can at least accept that as that’s their ideology or something (23:54) But someone pushes others to die for them like a Bill Kristol. No, I don’t accept that (24:00) I mean hack or democracy mark. Yeah, and just for the historical record record here (24:06) Colonel David Hackworth called Wesley Clark a perfumed Prince and a politician and a big, you know P word (24:13) Douglas McGregor on the other hand worked for him and has respect for the guy for what it’s worth (24:17) You know says he’s not the worst and one of the more intelligent of the three or four star generals at that level (24:23) But um as you say though on the facts he had to say well, yeah, that is right (24:29) However, though I don’t like your interpretation because I prefer mine instead was essentially was left (24:34) But that should go to show everybody else to that.See we can all do this like I ain’t special like the deal is (24:41) Um, you just read answer where.com all the time and any one of us can whoop any one of them because they’re all completely wrong (24:47) And full of it. It’s you know, I (24:50) Mean just think of the wars that we’ve been in (24:52) We stayed the USA stayed in Afghanistan for 20 years (24:56) But I was right that that was stupid and we shouldn’t the whole time and eventually finally everyone came to agree with me (25:04) But I said that the whole time and so did a lot of other people too. We should not be there (25:08) we got no business there the Taliban didn’t attack us al-qaeda did and that’s different and etc, etc and all of these things and (25:15) how it ain’t ever gonna work that we put together a coalition of minorities to oppress the plurality of (25:23) Population of the country the whole project was completely stupid and (25:27) But here’s the thing (25:29) Once you come around and agree with me about Afghanistan (25:34) Well, you’re never going back now because now you’re right before you were wrong (25:40) Now you get it that this really is (25:43) Look, we can pacify the posh tunes with h-bombs or we can quit trying because those are the actual choices (25:51) For winning that war.So just forget it, right? (25:55) That was always the answer now once you come to that conclusion finally with me (25:59) there’s nothing that anyone could say to you to persuade you back the other way, you know, and (26:05) All I’m saying is it’s the same with all of this stuff. You heard in that debate with Bill Kristol and I (26:11) You know people give me too much credit for that debate cuz I totally flubbed this (26:15) He brought up Bosnia and I went actually they screwed up the Lisbon deal and I didn’t even get the details, right? (26:21) I I like made a hash of my retelling of the Lisbon deal there when the real point was fuck (26:27) That right then of course, what did he just do? He just surrendered the entire field to me (26:32) He wouldn’t even stand by Kosovo (26:34) which the weekly standard said, you know, we got to kick the Serbs skulls in if they dare to (26:40) oppose our might and and our will in the in the Dayton deal, um and (26:48) much less (26:49) Standing by (26:50) Afghanistan which he demanded we go and stay and stay and supported the surge and all of those things under Obama to he said (26:59) All hail Obama (27:00) That was what Bill Kristol said when he announced this surge in Afghanistan and of course was one of the principal architects (27:06) no less than Paul Wolfowitz or Donald Rumsfeld or George W Bush in (27:12) Putting together Iraq war two and running the project for new American century and all of his buddies at AEI (27:18) Justin Raimondo called it the axis of crystal that made that war happen (27:23) it’s exactly right the little Lenin of the neoconservatives Justin called him and and (27:28) He couldn’t stand behind any of it (27:30) and of course (27:31) He supported Libya and supported Syria and all of these interventions and he couldn’t stand behind any of it and there I’m going (27:37) Actually a lot of blah blah about the Lisbon deal when which when what I should have said was wow (27:43) Did you hear that everybody like first of all? (27:47) Bosnia was a big screwjob where America took the side of al-qaeda and it was a disaster and you know (27:52) All of this and he was a huge supporter of it and we still are (27:55) Globalized bin Laden ism, correct? (27:58) I mean to that extent it globalized it brought it out of Afghanistan out of the Middle East and spread it them not only (28:04) Worse because it’s not even the people it’s the message got spread in addition and that that’s always a dangerous part (28:10) Least as we read in this book as Scott detailed at least at every point (28:16) when you know Russia and the rest of the world was dealing with a problem of (28:20) Bin Laden nights and the Mujahideen at least we you know joint efforts to fight them, right? (28:27) And put them down (28:28) We didn’t we didn’t fight them in the Middle East while funding and supporting them to continue fighting Russia throughout the last couple decades. I (28:35) mean (28:36) That’s the thing of it, too (28:37) It’s it’s such an irony and I know that at this point (28:43) The 9-11 truth or narrative is so dominant.I seem like a kook for not supporting. In fact, I saw there’s a (28:50) recent or semi recent one-star review on fool’s errand (28:54) From a truth or just says I’m a kook for not believing that bin Laden was a CIA plan all along (29:01) But the thing is like that guy’s mostly right, you know what I mean like the the truth is (29:08) The US the British and the Saudis ran these guys the international Islamist brigades (29:14) Really all along from you know, the really before Afghanistan in a safari club (29:22) operating in East Africa in the late 1970s and then into (29:26) Afghanistan in the 1980s with the international Islamist brigades and these are then yes the same Mujahideen who went to (29:33) Bosnia Kosovo and Chechnya and (29:37) You know a big part of how September 11th happened as I talked about in the book is the Minneapolis office could have tied the whole (29:44) thing together and ended the plot stopped the plot if they’d been able to get a warrant against Moussaoui and (29:51) they couldn’t get a warrant against Moussaoui because he was only tied to the terrorists in Chechnya and (29:56) the (29:57) Consensus in Washington is they’re not terrorists (30:00) They’re friends of ours, even though in fact, they were tied directly to Osama bin Laden who had already been since (30:07) 1992 directly tied to American attacks against the United States including (30:13) at that time the Radisson in Yemen then the first World Trade Center bombing and (30:17) later attacks on our troops in Saudi Arabia in 1995 in 1996 the Africa Embassy attacks of August of (30:24) 1998 and (30:27) And then they still backed them in Kosovo in 99 and then they still backed them in Chechnya after that and (30:33) And then but see the deal is I (30:40) First of all, I don’t think that the Americans well, first of all, there’s just no solid proof (30:45) there’s only a lot of implications and I just don’t think it would have to be Dick Cheney and I don’t think he’s got the (30:50) Courage to arrange an attack on New York City and kill thousands of people (30:54) He’d be just as likely to get himself coup d’etat and shot for that and Riyadh nuked (30:59) Well (31:01) Negligence can still be criminal and this is the thing. I think a couple of things going on.There is one (31:08) We kind of like the bin Laden nights because they do a lot of our dirty work against the Russians even now (31:13) Right like in Syria (31:16) And we don’t want to we don’t want to focus too heavily on them because we want to focus on Saddam Hussein in Baghdad (31:23) and this is why (31:25) You know, it’s folklore but it’s true too like I mean (31:28) There’s enough basis for all of this reporting that all summer long (31:32) You know one the summer of Gary Condit and the shark bite (31:38) That the CIA was trying to warn the White House that there’s a big attack coming and we think it even could be here and (31:44) We really need to get a principles level meeting about this and get the ball rolling on this and the neocons were saying don’t listen (31:52) To the CIA if we go to Afghanistan after bin Laden, then we’re never gonna get to Baghdad (31:59) It’s gonna be a huge diversion from the real goal, which is Iraq (32:03) And so what does I’m K to gonna do set off a truck bomb somewhere screw that we have to worry about that (32:08) And so and then in the bin Laden nights, you know, this is an Ali Soufan’s book the FBI agent (32:14) I quote him in the book where he says the Chechen terrorists complained to bin Laden (32:19) We don’t understand why you want to mess with America. They helped us in Afghanistan (32:24) They helped us in Bosnia and Kosovo now (32:26) They’re helping us in Chechnya and you want to hit them and bin Laden says yeah (32:31) Well, you don’t understand because he has this larger kind of Leninist vision of this world revolution (32:36) starting with attacking the United States primarily for occupying Saudi Arabia in order to bomb and blockade Iraq and (32:44) And of course supporting Israel and their war crimes against the Palestinians and the Lebanese and so (32:51) he had this larger vision and agenda and (32:55) And so it made sense then that the Americans thought that mostly he’s on our side (33:03) And so and and if he was gonna attack us it was gonna be over there somewhere with a truck bomb or something anyway (33:09) And so who really cares about that? (33:12) And so to turn (33:13) so they turn their blind eye there’s also evidence that the CIA and the Saudis were maybe trying to recruit these guys to be double (33:19) Agents when really they were single agents or triple agents going ahead and still, you know doing their plot (33:25) You know (33:26) Some of these guys have been followed (33:28) from Malaysia to Bangkok straight to LA back a year and a half or so before the attack and (33:34) We’re obviously well known to the CIA who followed them all the way here and then (33:40) Saudi intelligence and presumably CIA while they were here the degree of FBI knowledge of them and exactly what they were up to is in (33:47) dispute but (33:49) Anyways (33:52) The point being that (33:55) if you without going all the way to like America and Saudi did 9-11 help do that on purpose then (34:05) You still have a situation where America always backs Osama bin Laden except right after September 11th and (34:13) during Iraq war 2 when Zarqawi was leading the (34:17) You know the worst part of the Sunni insurgency against our guys in Iraq war 2 and we’re fighting them there (34:23) but all the rest of the time (34:25) including like almost immediately after that W Bush went back to their side started backing Fatala Islam in (34:31) Lebanon and the Muslim Brotherhood in Syria and (34:34) Jandala in Iran right back on the side of the bin Ladenites by the end of o5 beginning of o6 (34:41) So, you know, what can you say man? I don’t know you got al-qaeda (34:46) When was the big suicide attack in Afghanistan where the al-qaeda guy blew up like 10 CIA officers and their friends there? (34:53) And they like one year later. They’re backing them in Libya.In fact, just as they’re killing Osama bin Laden in (35:00) in (35:01) Pakistan in May of (35:03) 2011 they’re already getting started (35:06) backing his guys the Libyan Islamic fighting group and answer al-sharia who just got home from Iraq war 2 where they fought against America and (35:14) The Shiites now they come home to Libya and America’s taken their side (35:18) take him in lawns men’s side right when they’re capping him and (35:22) it wasn’t that also the same thing where the Pentagon’s backing one of the sex and the (35:27) CIA’s backing the other and they’re fighting each other even at times (35:31) Well, yeah, and that was that was in Syria a couple years later where yeah (35:35) The Pentagon was backing the Syrian Kurds the SDF and the YPG and then the SDF the Syrian Democratic Forces (35:42) They call it and yes, they were fighting CIA backed bin Ladenites in (35:48) In Afrin it’s called like the headache medicine (35:53) And it was that’s the headline in the Los Angeles Times. Anybody can find that CIA backed forces battle DoD bagged forces in Syria (36:00) yeah, well and this comes down to because I feel like on one hand your book obviously lays out the (36:08) The a lot of the different weaves of the history (36:12) debunking certain propaganda (36:14) Explaining the color of the color revolutions. I mean, there’s so much in there, you know, it’s funny at one point (36:19) We were in the middle of the book club.It was kind of like every week I got on I was like (36:22) I feel like we’re talking about the same stuff. We talked about last week. It’s just it’s a different location now, right? (36:30) The orange revolution up to the maid on I was just like by time to get to the maid on revolution (36:35) you’re just like wow, like I (36:37) Think they just really got this down to a science now, right? Like at that point the the Democratic regime change (36:44) Infrastructure, which is now under assault by Trump, which we’ll get to towards the end here (36:49) But it was a fine-tuned machine there and all that stuff like I hate to gloss over it (36:55) But like you just you as we found out and as you found out writing it (36:58) Takes a lot to unpack all that (37:01) at the very least though, I think anyone reading your book through those sections would have to admit that like I (37:07) Always go back to that debate with I forget the guy’s name where the guy, you know said to you (37:13) Oh, I guess you just don’t believe in democratic revolutions.They can’t happen and it’s like, okay. Hold on (37:18) Let’s just be clear here. Were there some people in these various, you know (37:25) revolutions that (37:26) You know on their own came to the conclusion or desire that they like wanted some kind of revolution or change in their country or nation (37:34) Sure.Okay. Yeah, I got it, but that doesn’t change the fact that we can track all these (37:40) I mean not just that we can track that these agencies whether it’s USAID whether it’s the NED or the NDI that they all (37:48) Openly brag about and display how how many millions of dollars they spent (37:55) Into the various projects into these different countries and regions for these different (38:01) Revolutions and it’s like you can’t on one hand, you know be like, ooh Russia spent (38:06) You know what with a hundred thousand dollars or a million dollars on Facebook ads and that caused Hillary Clinton to lose the election (38:14) In 2016, you can’t say that with a serious face and then be like oh, but the you know (38:20) Hundreds of millions of dollars spent over a decade in these different, you know (38:26) Democratic revolutions just had no effect whatsoever (38:29) right (38:31) Man, you know, what’s funny is (38:34) like I’ve argued with Democrats about this where (38:37) they really (38:39) Agree with what you just said sarcastically. He has completely ridiculous (38:43) Yeah, no, I mean come on you’re saying that just because we we the US government (38:49) Spends all this money backing independent media over there (38:54) You’re saying that then if anyone agrees with the things that they say that they are just brainwashed and helpless powerless (39:01) You know controlled people who have no will of their own is like well, I mean, yeah, like kinda right like I mean (39:08) Are you telling me? (39:08) What’s the point of spending all that money on all that media to get them to push that message to change people’s minds to agree with (39:16) What the Americans want and it only has to be semi successful move the margin a few points and then claim a democratic (39:24) revolution as (39:25) You get a bunch of right-wing fascists to overthrow a democratically elected government (39:30) Yeah (39:32) Right.Yeah the Democratic Revolution where Nazi flag-bearing militiamen occupy buildings and snipe (39:40) their own citizens and (39:46) They’re like soup kitchens in the Maidan Revolution it was cold (39:50) There is no way that that was there may have been organic 20 people that were really upset (39:55) But there’s no way that that became the size it did without the support that it had from the United States when USAID (40:00) Of course not a single way. It’s a millions of dollars, right? I mean giant big-screen TVs and and (40:08) a (40:09) giant stage (40:10) essentially a permanent rock concert hot meals and and heaters and (40:15) Whatever the whole deal all the tents and all the infrastructure for all that came from these NGOs all backed by USAID NED (40:24) IRI and NDI and all the Soros groups (40:29) Renaissance Foundation and others (40:32) And I ask a quick question that boggled my mind was the invasion of Crimea in (40:39) 2014. Yeah, how many people died how quote-unquote many six six (40:46) Six, I heard that.I think you said on peers or something you or Dave’s mentioned (40:50) I had to look that up right away. I’m like flipping out who doesn’t mention invasion of crime the that huge invasion in (40:57) 2014 we want to go back to pre of (41:00) 2011 borders or 1991 and you’re like what like help me understand that (41:04) Yeah, I remember Ray McGovern used to tell a story about I think at his church (41:08) They’re like doing a big remembrance ceremony for the poor people of Crimea and he asked him (41:13) How many people do you think died and they were like, oh thousands, right? (41:18) He’s like no actually nobody died and he was wrong about that (41:22) It was a few it was I believe it was to Ukrainian to Russian soldiers and then to civilians (41:28) Who died in the thing and then it was in dispute like who killed the civilian? (41:32) So exactly what happened there, but it was like Grenada (41:36) Yeah, it was a door (41:37) Whatever essentially what happened was the Marines and the sailors just went outside and stood on street corners and said, okay (41:42) This is Russia again more and then that was it and they told the Ukrainians to leave (41:47) I remember (41:48) There was footage of (41:50) Russian soldiers firing a couple warning shots and telling some Ukrainian soldiers you boys ought to just turn around and leave do we don’t want (41:58) To fight and there’s no fight to be had here (42:00) you might as well just go and they were like, all right then and turn around and left and so (42:06) That was how that happened (42:08) That’s when he’s I started systematically bump bump like basically attacking the east from the west right like just shooting (42:14) Yeah, and I think that’s you know a big part of the reason for the attack on the West (42:18) I mean first of all Obama and John Brennan the head the CIA insisted on it, but I (42:23) think the Americans and the new regime were both overreacting to the loss of Crimea and said we gotta (42:30) Get in there to the Donbass real quick and lock it down before the Russians have a chance (42:34) But they just failed at that (42:35) you know the the I (42:38) Forget now if it was that acting president Cherchenyov or if it was Poroshenko (42:42) They changed power right there at the start of the war (42:46) Who said well, we’re just gonna go in there and rouse those bandits out (42:49) It’ll just take a few days, you know, right like Operation Decisive Storm in Yemen that lasted for eight years (42:56) and so it just turned into a massive war and a huge part of the army defected to the other side and (43:01) started fighting back and and (43:04) you know a (43:05) Complete fact there’s absolute fact that that was you know (43:09) Even CJ Chivers from the New York Times who is a former Marine? I believe captain (43:15) Maybe higher ranking officer and it was an armaments expert. He went over there and verified and (43:22) He went alone.I believe conflicts armaments research said the same thing (43:25) That all this equipment is Soviet equipment that had belonged to the Ukrainian (43:30) Military and that defectors took with them when they switch sides in the Civil War (43:34) So that was where it all came from. It was not all Russian equipment coming from across the international border there (43:41) The (43:43) Response everyone gives you when you push them to a point on this stuff. It’s just like well Scott you ever been to Ukraine? (43:51) I wish I had said to know Ferguson (43:54) That like well, you wrote a book about the Rothschilds.Have you ever been to the 19th century? (43:59) Right, or it’s like, you know, what Ukrainian? (44:03) Yeah, well what you should say is I don’t invoke all that stuff cuz (44:09) But I mean, it’s like hello just look at your history it’s like hey take a look at my family tree, will ya (44:15) Well, I think the biggest point is just to say you know what I never been to Iraq either (44:19) But I was right about the weapons of mass destruction (44:21) Okay, it’s never like a whole lot of places that we’ve never been at us anti-war libertarians (44:27) But we tend to keep getting things right and and look it takes everyone else 20 years to catch up to where we’re at (44:33) And listen, the whole book is written from the point of view of a guy who I know that the burden of proof is on me (44:40) I’m sitting here telling you that every grown-up with authority was wrong about everything for 40 years (44:46) Obviously the burden of proof is on me. The whole book is written (44:49) Well, the Hawks claim this but I say they’re wrong and here’s why well the Hawks claim that and I say see they admit it (44:57) No Hawks claim this. Well, that’s a bunch of crap (44:59) And here’s some other Hawks explaining why the first Hawks are liars and all of that (45:04) That’s the way the whole book is written, of course, so (45:08) I actually flubbed this answer.I wish I’d given a better answer (45:11) I my answer is more like what you just said, but in the in the debate with Eli Lake at Dartmouth (45:17) I wish I had said because she actually did specifically ask this and I in the questioner in the audience (45:23) I should have said specifically that yes, there are many (45:26) Ukrainian sources in the book if you flip through it (45:31) You’re not gonna see a bunch of Cyrillic because I translated them all into English titles (45:35) Because none of my readers read Cyrillic including me and so I’m not gonna have a bunch of foreign looking (45:43) headlines in the footnotes, but (45:47) If you look at the sources, you’ll see that you know what they are (45:51) There’s plenty of Ukrainian news sources in there (45:54) And then if you look at Scott Horton org slash provoked slash notes (45:58) You can follow the hot links right to the originals and or the Google translations (46:04) And I guess I have the originals you got to translate them yourselves (46:06) And I linked to the original sources whether it’s Ukraine’s got Pravda or whatever (46:11) There’s a bunch of euro maiden press and whether there’s must be a hundred of them (46:15) So I (46:16) Loaded with information that if the names were just Smith and Jones and Johnson and Thompson (46:22) I’d still get lost but no it has to be you you shanko and (46:27) Paraschva and like just buy me a freaking vow or a consonant or let me figure this out (46:33) Like the places the dates it is so hard. That’s what makes us all what I call a hard read is that part? (46:39) It’s not about like that. It’s hard to read (46:42) It is the information is like you have to do a brain switch in your head to almost get these places and names to work (46:49) Yeah (46:49) I’ve had people criticize me for using too many personal pronouns like where I just call people president this and secretary that and deputy (46:56) Secretary whatever where you know, the common convention is you’ve already introduced these people (47:01) But come on, man (47:03) I’m introducing you to hundreds and hundreds of different people including I like to name (47:07) Journalists by name good and bad and say this journalist reported in this publication (47:12) the following facts and whatever because it’s important context to me and so I think it’s (47:20) You know as I as I reread it out loud for the audiobook I can see where sometimes it’s a little clunky (47:28) Where you know, maybe I just introduced this guy a minute ago, and I don’t need to reintroduce him again yet (47:33) But like whatever I’m not really making those changes.I’m basically leaving that (47:37) Because I think people need a hand with that (47:39) I like when I tell you who this guy was I don’t want you to have to go paging back (47:44) Wait, who the hell is that again and make it difficult? I’m not trying to make it difficult, you know (47:49) It definitely helped that you did that. Like I said, that’s the only thing I made it a (47:53) Challenge is just the names and the places like that. You know, it’s not the information.Yeah (47:58) Well, I’m glad that you guys like it. I know that it’s you know, vastly overly long when I do (48:06) Finish all the corrections after I’m done reading the audiobook and (48:10) Make all the corrections then I’m finally gonna turn it in and I’m gonna publish a second edition (48:14) I guess I’ll have to write a new afterword about what happens and you know early Trump two years here (48:19) and (48:21) Then I’m gonna put it out in hardback and a new properly sized paperback. So it’ll be your thoughts on this (48:28) What happened what happened this week? What are your thoughts on that? Let’s get a fresh take from probably haven’t talked much about it (48:33) And I want yeah, there’s a there’s a quote from the book (48:36) I want to read to preface this because you said at the end in the rogue statist (48:42) Section here to the end (48:43) You said maybe Trump driven by pure spite toward the same national security state that tried to destroy him (48:49) really could get back in there and pull troops out of Europe and Asia and the war in Ukraine and (48:55) Make peace with Russia and China and finish what he never really started the first time (48:59) But would he could he or would the Empire consume him all over again? (49:04) well, we’re what like a month and a half into this and I (49:10) Mean, I don’t want to like count eggs before they hatch.But yeah, there’s a lot that’s popped off (49:14) That doesn’t last month but like in the last week (49:17) on this stuff and it I mean I (49:20) want you to answer Mark’s question, but I also want you to answer this like (49:24) Regardless of if it works out and I never want to like, you know (49:27) I think we’re all annoyed sometimes at the MAGA like Trump idolization and things like that (49:33) but even I have to admit that like even if (49:35) He’s still very flawed and I don’t trust him, but there’s just something different about him (49:41) maybe it’s just that he’s pissed off and angry and just like, you know, the gloves are off and he’s more willing to (49:47) like not try to make friends with certain people or whatnot, but I don’t know man that uh that (49:52) Meeting was the Linsky and Vance. That was (49:55) What he said that was good TV (49:58) Yeah, which is how he ended it, right? (50:02) You gotta love, you know the character of Trump at least where he’s like and I don’t mean his character (50:08) I mean the character of him right? He’s like, well, this would be some good TV (50:12) I’ll tell you that because that’s always where his head’s at, you know (50:16) But yeah (50:19) Look (50:20) Some guy tried to blow his head off (50:23) and I (50:24) Guess I believe him when he says God saved him to save the country (50:28) You know, it’s funny to hear him say that when he just finished talking about how some innocent guy got killed (50:34) By the bullet that missed him, you know like Jesus plays a tough game of cards (50:41) you know, I don’t know but uh (50:43) anyway, um (50:45) I think he’s rationalized that that like, you know how people do they’re like everything happens for a reason (50:50) Which is just a nice way of saying that like I’m gonna come up with some kind of justification for whatever just happened (50:57) You know what? I mean? Um, so and (51:01) Then look, I think I really don’t know what the hell went on with that, Pennsylvania thing (51:05) I’m afraid to begin to speculate and there seems to be some weird strangers around that kid (51:11) Based on some cell phone data and whatever the New York Post has a new thing about that today. In fact, um (51:18) Yeah, I just don’t know about that.The other guy (51:21) That’s one of your things like the Woodward thing Matt Gates was told it was Iran (51:26) Remember remember he was told he came out of the skiff and they told me that it was Iran (51:31) I’m like you mean the same guys that you’re gonna go after after you get into power and like what you know (51:36) Once again there (51:37) Yeah, that was stupid but look then and that’s not going anywhere because there’s nothing to that (51:46) but then (51:48) The guy that tried to kill him in Florida was clearly doing it on behalf of Ukraine, right? (51:53) I mean, there’s a there’s footage of him palling around with the Azov battalion there (51:56) So I we don’t know that they like recruited him to do it (52:00) But the very least he did it out of sympathy with them (52:02) And to try to stop Trump from doing exactly what he’s doing now trying to stop the war so like I don’t know I (52:10) Already don’t like these guys, but if the Azov battalion tried to kill me I would like them even less than that (52:15) You know what? I mean? I don’t know so I could see how Donald Trump is. Just like listen they (52:20) Despite all the propaganda about Russia Ukraine actually did intervene in the election of 2016 (52:27) They forged these additional entries in the Paul Manafort ledger (52:31) To make it look like he left the country with all this cash and whatever says total joke (52:35) none of it was true as later completely debunked, but it was (52:39) the Ukrainian Embassy in the United States that was working on manufacturing that stuff and putting it into the (52:46) stream and getting him fired and (52:48) Spinning this whole story about how he was Donald Trump’s agent controlling (52:53) Pardon me at Vladimir Putin’s agent controlling Donald Trump and all this stuff and (52:58) So I’m sure he holds a grudge about that and now (53:03) I’m sure he’s just like feeling it that before he was just overwhelmed by all of these officials and all the titles (53:09) He didn’t have a trusted group of people to rely on and just that whole dynamic has changed (53:14) Oh, and then also, you know, this is a scene straight out of Sopranos where the cops are in there literally rifling through his wife’s (53:23) Unmentionables in their private home and this is the former president United States from just like a year ago at the time and (53:31) You guarantee this is like Obama mocking him and going. Yeah, but the difference between you and me is you’ll never be president Donald (53:37) This is the same kind of thing.Oh, you’re gonna have your goons put their hands on my wife’s underwear (53:42) I’m gonna be the president again, and I’m gonna ruin your life. It’s on right like what would you do? (53:48) If you had the ability to if you were him and could get reelected again, who’s gonna stand in your way? (53:54) Ron the sanctimonious. Yeah, right, you know what I mean? And so yeah vendetta time (54:00) And so I don’t love the guy.I think to me (54:04) His Zionism is just the most arsenic of poison pills (54:07) I just absolutely hate it and he threatened to kill the civilian population of Gaza in plain language yesterday (54:15) And it’s just it’s the worst millstone around his neck. It’s the it’s the it’s like the slavery and the founding of America (54:24) It is just this absolute horrific glaring flaw in (54:28) America first and making America great again is this devotion to Israel? (54:34) And in it just taints every other thing that he’s doing so I just I can’t be like a pro-him guy (54:39) But I can’t always glory in the crushing of his enemies today (54:45) For example, he suspended the security clearance from the law firm Perkins Coy (54:49) I know or I think it might be cooey. Someone told me it was they heard it said that way one time (54:55) and (54:57) These are the people who helped frame him for treason in Russiagate.They were behind the DNC leak attribution (55:04) They were behind the yada phones and the DNS and the alpha bank hoax and all of that and (55:11) and (55:12) So he’s getting his revenge (55:14) Depriving them of their security clearance means that their lawyers can’t work national security type cases that they specialize in in, Washington (55:21) I hope they go out of business. Hope they all jump out a window (55:25) and (55:26) And I and they’re just getting started. I mean there was a leak (55:29) Nobody made much of a deal about this, but there’s a small story in the Washington Times the other day (55:34) about how (55:36) and (55:37) I’m not sure if this is the same story (55:39) I already know about remember in my Russiagate section where I talk about how they tried to do a honey trap with (55:45) Papadopoulos and try to have it was a clearly the FBI was behind this all hail Matt Taibbi (55:50) I’m almost certain his journalism is behind me knowing that.Um, but I’m not sure if this is the same honey pot (55:56) They’re talking about or not, but in the Washington Times (55:59) they said they had these other reports that there were two off-the-books honeypot women who the FBI had (56:07) insinuated into the Trump campaign in (56:11) 2016 and now Kash Patel and his right-hand man (56:14) Dan Bongino are gonna get to the bottom of it and then these guys are Trump guys and (56:20) They come on. He goes on Tim cast and he literally says, you know (56:26) I got this guy high up in news that tells me that some Middle East company or Middle East countries actually in (56:33) Charge of the Epstein thing, which one was it? Well, I didn’t ask he didn’t tell me that come on (56:37) He didn’t tell you which Middle East country was look. Come on the guys.I’m not saying the guy’s one of us (56:46) I’m saying he’s one of Trump. That’s what I’m saying. Is that he is not, you know, Jeff Sessions and Rob Rob (56:54) What’s his name? (56:55) Rosenstein up there running DOJ.He’s got his own guys running DOJ now (57:00) I think he should have picked Jonathan Turley to be Attorney General and then he should have made (57:08) You know, I don’t know this Pam Bondi lady should have stayed in place (57:12) Oh happened with her little flub going on right now like that might have that she flubbed (57:17) Well the whole thing with Epstein the whole Epstein the way was released in the way (57:20) She talked in the way. She kind of made her look herself look really badly there. Well, we’ll see (57:25) Trump turns he’s like, okay, I’m done and Jonathan Turley is by far the superior choice to be Attorney General right now (57:32) and he’s a pro-trump guy, and he’s a brilliant lawyer and (57:38) and (57:38) So he definitely should have been the one in the first place to get that job before Gates or anybody (57:43) It should have been him.Anyway, he’s got two very loyal guys at FBI (57:48) Who if they want to can go after his enemies big-time? (57:53) What I guess I would like to see (57:56) What I what I think is probably would be the best way to proceed (58:01) would be to have (58:04) just absolute full (58:06) declassification and disclosure of everything the FBI and the CIA have in their files on all of his enemies and (58:15) even put them together put it all together in indictment form and (58:20) Then say well look we’re not gonna convene a grand jury and indict Hillary Clinton, but we are turning over this (58:28) dossier on (58:29) her (58:30) To the Wall Street Journal and the Washington will make an aluminum or platinum or something. Well, we won’t make it steel but (58:37) That’s right that they should come up with a funny metal (58:40) But yeah (58:40) Sure (58:41) and then and then go ahead and do this to all of their enemies put out because you don’t want to they don’t want to (58:47) get bogged down in (58:48) accusations of (58:51) unwarranted political (58:52) Prosecutions and persecutions of their political enemies and whatever. I think they’d like to avoid that (58:58) but so what you could do is you could just put out a massive indictment and then say listen and (59:04) In fact go ahead and have the grand jury do it (59:06) And go ahead and have it be a real indictment and then say well listen (59:10) But we’re gonna choose not to pursue these charges because of the political nature of the situation means that we can’t however (59:17) we invite every investigative journalist in America to dig through this indictment and all the supporting documentation that we have for you and have a (59:24) ball and (59:25) Then and you know what and you can go after the war party and all the enemies on the Republican side to (59:29) Go ahead and ruin their lives man.They all deserve it every one of them (59:34) And so I became libertarian the more I thought I’d be friends with both sides and the more I’m finding both sides (59:41) Nobody’s right man. We’re all wrong. That’s the point.We’re all flawed (59:44) Like like like Jacob saying there’s so much redeemable about the right right now and just the absolute opposite is true (59:53) about the liberals and the left at this point like we have our very favorite leftist journalists like Greenwald and Blumenthal and whoever but (1:00:03) You need to share this one Facebook post so I post this whole thing I get back and forth (1:00:08) I called the boomer social network and I post that we’re having you on tonight (1:00:13) And I well, I welcome a handful of people that are progressive and I literally say guys, please join us (1:00:18) We’d love for you to join a chat and ask a question the response from this progressive guy (1:00:23) Who’s probably 5560 and I want us to say his name because sorry not interested in hearing from a from a member of a right-wing (1:00:31) fringe group like libertarians (1:00:34) They’ve lost their minds (1:00:36) This guy probably protested Vietnam and probably Iraq and here he is (1:00:41) Calling you right-wing fringe libertarian. Help me understand what happened. What happened to this group? (1:00:48) well, I (1:00:50) Mean man, you know a lot of people blamed it all on Obama (1:00:53) But really the way I remember it was Nancy Pelosi (1:00:56) Climbed up on Cindy Sheehan’s back in order to retake the House of Representatives in the election of 06 (1:01:03) And the Democrats won the House and the Senate and then they immediately turned around and funded the expansion of the war in the surge (1:01:10) of o7 and (1:01:11) Completely betrayed all of the anti-war sentiment that got them their place back.And then what did the left say? (1:01:17) What are the progressives and the anti-war movement say to that? (1:01:21) nothing and (1:01:22) then Barack Obama came and (1:01:24) He looked like he was a click or two to the left of Hillary Clinton (1:01:29) And so he satisfied all of those emotions on the liberal progressive leftist side the more liberal more leftist side (1:01:37) While actually being nothing but Hillary Clinton herself the whole time and so he had you know (1:01:43) The perfect camouflage for being as center-left as could possibly be (1:01:49) in in his presidency and (1:01:52) but (1:01:54) But you know placated (1:01:56) The the so-called progressives or you know, and and in fact look at even his (1:02:04) His calculation to escalate the war in Afghanistan in 2009 (1:02:08) I just talked about that Bob Woodward book is actually a very valuable book (1:02:12) Obama’s wars all about how they essentially just forced him to do it. They extorted him into expanding the war and (1:02:19) his calculation was (1:02:22) If I do this he made an explicit deal with Lindsey Graham and John McCain (1:02:27) Give him another 30 and that was on top of the 40. He’d already given him (1:02:31) so give him a total of 70,000 extra troops, and we promised to shut up and leave you alone and (1:02:38) So that was an explicit handshake deal that he made with Lindsey Graham on behalf of John McCain who is he just beat in (1:02:44) The election a year ago, but was going to be the leading voice of the dissenting Hawks (1:02:49) Calling him a wimp in the Senate for the long term.So (1:02:53) the other side of the calculation was if I do this, is it gonna make my left-wing supporters mad and (1:03:00) His answer was no, they won’t give a damn (1:03:03) So he’ll be able to placate John McCain, but it’s not gonna really bother the people who support him if he triples the war (1:03:09) They’re gonna look away. It’s gonna promise them a new health care program and whatever and they’re gonna avert their eyes (1:03:15) You know flash him a big smile (1:03:18) Make him feel nice and then triple the war and he was right. He was right that worked it shut up John McCain and (1:03:25) Lindsey Graham and (1:03:28) He expanded the war and (1:03:31) The only people who really said anything was like the the very heart of the anti-war movement like the best (1:03:36) You know writers and activists and protesters who you know (1:03:39) People sell code pink short and say that they quit the field (1:03:43) Well their membership largely did but their leader sure didn’t right same as like Glenn Greenwald and and Matt (1:03:50) Max Blumenthal and the people at the gray zone and other places like that who stayed really great but a (1:03:58) Whole lot of them man.They just sold their soul to politics (1:04:00) It’s easy to oppose George Bush waging a war in an oil country, right? (1:04:05) Like you don’t have to know nothing to just be like, well, I don’t trust the Houston guys to make this Middle East policy (1:04:11) Right and then (1:04:13) The weird thing to me and this would be like my last thing here question and Scott you can be say something before we close out (1:04:20) but (1:04:21) it just so I came from the left and I remember when the left was very skeptical of like (1:04:29) Everything America did I don’t know when that changed when suddenly it’s like the the (1:04:35) It’s not that the roles have completely (1:04:37) Flipped well, I have an answer to this. So this is what really did it right was Russia gate (1:04:44) Because what happened was when Trump came in (1:04:49) the whole government (1:04:50) kind of you know released their antibodies against this plague right to isolate him and prevent him from exercising power and (1:04:59) so (1:04:59) the liberals and leftists (1:05:02) It’s not even that they were siding with the CIA and the FBI the CIA and FBI were siding with them (1:05:09) that the state itself hates the president and (1:05:14) sides with you against him and wants to work to limit his power even to impeach him and overthrow him out of office and (1:05:21) so (1:05:22) You saw the same dynamic in (1:05:25) in (1:05:25) Egypt after the revolution there it was the entire political spectrum and I know that (1:05:30) NED money and USAID money had a lot to do with their groups who helped to foment the revolution (1:05:34) but it very quickly got out of control and (1:05:37) It became a very popular revolution across the whole country and then they held elections and the Muslim Brotherhood won barely in (1:05:45) late 2011 and there they won the Parliament and the presidency again just barely and (1:05:53) But when their guy took power (1:05:55) The entire government just completely refused to do what he said, they wouldn’t collect the garbage (1:06:00) They wouldn’t keep the lights on they wouldn’t you know, keep the water running (1:06:03) They wouldn’t you know do basic policing services and whatever. They just essentially went on strike (1:06:10) Or at least you know massive work slow down (1:06:14) Against him and then the liberal parties of the say the students and the socialist (1:06:21) Unions and whatever intellectuals and whatever wanted to you know from the bigger cities who wanted to form more liberal parties (1:06:28) call them the left side not the left like leftist communists, but like the liberal side or the (1:06:35) the left to the right and you know an (1:06:38) Imperfect analogy to our conservatives and liberals here, but something like that (1:06:43) Instead of working really hard to create a new Democratic Party to oppose the Muslim Brotherhood (1:06:50) They didn’t want to do that (1:06:51) so instead they just took a bunch of Saudi money to stay outside and protest and say we hate the new conservative government and (1:07:00) then they ended up being the pressure from below that justified a (1:07:04) Military coup d’etat that overthrew the conservative religious party and reinstalled what a right-wing military dictatorship (1:07:13) So how liberal and democratic is that? (1:07:16) but where they could have (1:07:19) Recognized that they had won themselves a democratic system (1:07:22) It didn’t matter that they lost the lack the last election better luck next time (1:07:27) but the question is whether the Muslim Brotherhood is going to stand for election and whether they’re gonna step out of the way if they (1:07:32) Lose and all indications were yes (1:07:34) You can have a two-party democracy in Egypt for the first time in 5,000 years (1:07:39) Get your shit together and instead they sided with the military dictatorship (1:07:44) They sided with the permanent state (1:07:45) Against the right-wing party and then this like became obvious to me immediately with Trump and the Russiagate scandal that you see (1:07:53) It’s exactly the same thing that’s happening.Here is the liberals don’t understand. They’re destroying (1:08:00) Having a representative system at all (1:08:02) in the name of fighting with the secret police (1:08:05) Against the elected president that they can’t stand the fact that they lost an election to when you’re trying to preserve democracy (1:08:13) Respecting the fact that the other side wins (1:08:15) sometimes is a big part of that and they refuse to do that and they’re (1:08:19) sacrificing democracy itself in the name of protecting it because there’s it’s a twisted thing when we’re sitting here as (1:08:26) Libertarians who actually don’t really want to defend democracy, but then having to go to the people going we’re defending democracy going (1:08:33) No, you’re not really well compared to what right? I mean if democracy means protection for (1:08:40) You know individual minority rights and (1:08:44) Tripartite government and a bicameral Congress and regular elections instead of a military (1:08:49) Dictatorship or a royal monarchy then yes sign me up for Thomas Jefferson, man (1:08:55) I would much rather have the American way than that (1:08:59) and so (1:09:00) No (1:09:02) Democracy is bad. We have a lot of things about democracy that we don’t like but our solution as libertarians is always (1:09:09) liberty and private property not (1:09:12) Strong man rule, which is what the liberals, you know seem to prefer to what they say, you know (1:09:19) The thing I got away from this book the most which I want to get your response to before we close was that a (1:09:25) Lot of people seem to read this book or read if they don’t read the book (1:09:29) They read the snippets or they read people who are supporting these arguments and go well (1:09:33) Just look you’re trying to defend Russia and make Putin to be a saint and it’s like (1:09:38) That’s really not the point of the book at all (1:09:40) If you read it, you are, you know (1:09:42) Very quick to call out the failures of all the Russian leaders and Russian government and point out their own flaws (1:09:49) Yeah, the point here is not to defend Russia the point here is to point out that America is not the good guy and (1:09:58) if and I think some people are even if I have a close friend of mine who (1:10:02) Has been talking about this for a while and he was like, okay (1:10:05) So maybe America is not the good guy (1:10:07) But like shouldn’t we even if we’re not the good guy do something about what’s going on now? (1:10:12) Even if we helped cause it maybe we need to at least now turn course (1:10:15) That’s just that’s disconnected from reality like and I think the most important thing we have to understand here is that like (1:10:24) These things don’t exist in a vacuum right and if we do not understand (1:10:29) that what like the the (1:10:31) Totality of the actions that led us to here and the extent to which the American government and all its different (1:10:39) Agencies and and NGOs and whatnot have have contributed to this and that they have not been the good guys (1:10:46) In this, you know last three decades since the end of the Cold War (1:10:52) Then it doesn’t matter how much you hope and pray just with good feelings that like oh (1:10:58) But like it’s not good that Russia invaded Ukraine and like we shouldn’t you know, excuse that it’s like and you point out in the book (1:11:05) Other things Putin could have done other than invade you don’t defend the invasion the point is just that it’s like are you going to trust? (1:11:12) the government that did (1:11:15) Afghanistan and Iraq and Syria and Yemen and supports Israel with what they do in and Gaza and all the other thing and and (1:11:23) Also, like has supported all of the the terrorism that has been going on over in the eastern part of the world to including stuff (1:11:31) That’s been destabilizing the regions around Russia (1:11:34) It’s like you’re gonna come and tell me that.Yeah, we’ve been bad all the way up into this point, but now (1:11:41) You know, but now we’re the good guys or now we can act (1:11:45) It’s like the only way like we can’t act good abroad whatever that looks like until we can actually get back to (1:11:52) What are like you just pointed out the values of Thomas Jefferson? (1:11:56) How can we promote the values of Thomas Jefferson around the world? We don’t have them here (1:12:01) Right, like we’re just not going to be able to and it’s just disconnected from reality to (1:12:07) Hope and think otherwise. Well, look, I mean, there’s a few things you’re bringing up here (1:12:12) I mean one of the obvious answers to what’s going on here is simple partisanship and I look at that as a (1:12:18) essentially a crutch for weak minded people because (1:12:23) After all, it sucks to always hate the government (1:12:27) You’re supposed to pick one side or the other and be essentially appeased and (1:12:32) Placated half the time. That’s what Carol Quigley said, right? (1:12:35) That’s the purpose of the two parties (1:12:37) so that the people (1:12:38) Can throw those rascals out every four or eight years and switch parties back and forth without ever leading to a substantial shift in policy (1:12:46) that’s the kind of purpose of the thing right is so that you have a team to root for and (1:12:52) So your buddy who’s saying yeah, but what about this his problem is he’s a Democrat and this is the Democrats policy (1:13:00) And so he’s gay married to it and thinks that he has to somehow identify with it.Otherwise (1:13:07) you know, it’s like (1:13:09) Remember there was a time where like liberals even years after they would not take off their mask because to not wear a mask (1:13:16) Was the same as wearing a red hat and saying that you’re pro Trump and they couldn’t do that (1:13:22) So they had to be masked people so that they wouldn’t be confused for being Trump people, you know (1:13:28) this kind of deal and so they um (1:13:31) You know and so it’s um (1:13:33) It’s an escape from having to just deal with the fact that no man (1:13:38) These guys are just as bad as those guys and usually both sides are worse than each other on everything (1:13:44) And so, you know like even Donald Trump promising to kill all the innocent civilians of Gaza (1:13:51) Well, Joe Biden actually did kill them all almost a hundred thousand of them, right? (1:13:56) So, I don’t know like yeah, yes and the casualty numbers what 1.8 million where’d you get you were at 2.2 (1:14:03) So there’s 400,000 missing (1:14:05) We’ve got (1:14:08) Numbers (1:14:10) Donald Trump’s numbers are always wrong always. Yeah. Yeah (1:14:16) He’s (1:14:16) Underestimating the people of Gaza is because he’s trying to make it sound like a smaller number of people to be packed up and moved (1:14:22) out not because he secretly knows (1:14:27) Yeah, yeah hundreds of thousands high like the Ukraine thing (1:14:30) I’m still foggy on the numbers on that because that’s that’s well (1:14:33) I think it just it’s high tens of thousands minimum and it could be more than that (1:14:37) But you know the people go Oh Hamas exaggerates (1:14:40) No, Hamas issues only the most conservative body counts that they can they don’t report all the missing or they keep all the missing and (1:14:48) Buried alive and and presumed dead in separate categories from the conserved from the confirmed dead (1:14:53) It’s just like, you know Iraq body count in the war (1:14:57) They counted them one at a time, but meanwhile people could extrapolate out and go a lot more people than this are dying (1:15:03) But these are just the ones that they have the names and dates and times (1:15:07) Where they died and everything to to actually have double verified and add to the individual list of people but (1:15:14) You know, I think the official number is high 40s (1:15:18) but the the real number must be much higher than that especially when you take into account all the people who are buried alive in (1:15:23) The rubble and many of whom will never be recovered because the Israelis already bulldozed at all and etc (1:15:30) But that’s definitely like it even if Trump ends those stuff going on in Ukraine (1:15:34) Man, I mean we (1:15:38) Have to we we can’t get too caught up like even if we get some wins here with Ukraine or other things Trump is doing (1:15:45) we can’t (1:15:48) Relent one minute for all the other things (1:15:51) You know it back to your friend though for a second is as (1:15:56) You said the book is not written from a pro-russian point of view (1:16:00) I don’t give a damn about Russia and I wasn’t trying to impress anyone by how little I give a damn about Russia by writing it (1:16:06) The way I write it.I just say exactly what I think about things and I don’t have really any reason to favor them (1:16:11) but like (1:16:13) Your friend is still a big fat wimp (1:16:16) Like what if I wrote what if the book was called? (1:16:20) Russia’s lawyer and I was just being John Adams defending the guys at the Boston Massacre (1:16:26) You know, this is what Jude Winooski he was a former (1:16:31) Neoconservative who became a paleo conservative and an anti-war guy at the end of the Cold War (1:16:35) But when Iraq war 2 was breaking out he spent 2002 saying fine (1:16:40) I’ll represent Saddam Hussein Saddam Hussein is not guilty of the following things and he said it like (1:16:46) You would hire a badass brilliant Jewish lawyer to get out there and tell everybody (1:16:52) your side of the case and (1:16:54) And (1:16:55) Unashamedly, that’s the job. It’s an adversarial process in the court of law. He doesn’t have to love you (1:17:02) he just has to pretend that he does and get up there and and (1:17:05) Preach your case as best as he possibly can and then Jude Winooski.I guess I remember him saying from time to time (1:17:13) something along the lines of (1:17:14) geez, try to get a hold of your tiny feminine emotions guys as (1:17:20) I tell you Saddam Hussein side of the story here (1:17:23) Are you really not man enough to read black type on a white page? (1:17:29) That tells you that something that you want to believe isn’t actually accurate. Oh (1:17:35) Well, you just love Saddam Hussein. No, I’m just Saddam Hussein’s lawyer (1:17:40) okay, that was what Jude Winooski did and and (1:17:44) He was almost right about everything (1:17:46) I think he let Saddam off for gas in the Kurds at Halabja and blamed that on Iran, which was not really true (1:17:51) It was the Iraqis that did that but otherwise Jude was right about all that stuff everything that he said (1:17:56) Debunking the case for war was right.And so what if that was the book? What if the book was wow? (1:18:03) I just got back from Russia and I love it so much and I can’t wait to help convince you guys (1:18:08) That their side of the story is right. Well (1:18:11) My claims and my footnotes either hold up or they don’t (1:18:15) My side of the story is either true or it ain’t and how could a grown-ass man be so emotional that he would be (1:18:22) Essentially afraid is what you’re describing (1:18:25) To read something that comes from such the other side of the story from what from what he wants to hear. Oh (1:18:33) We’re are you sure this book isn’t just praising Putin.What if it was? (1:18:39) You wouldn’t be able to finish for all the tears in your eyes. I (1:18:43) Look, I had to look I had to watch this thing. They watch to do this book review (1:18:47) I had to watch the Kathy Young debate multiple times Scott.You have no idea how much hell that was my friend talk about (1:18:55) But before we go before I know we’re gonna go here shortly, but I just want to express this to our audience (1:19:01) You were an amazing person because I reached out and asked you to to review a debate that I did and you gave me some (1:19:08) Constructive feedback and just that you took that time (1:19:11) Shows that you care about the message and we are just all messengers on this ship right now (1:19:16) We’re hoping to elevate to a level that you’re at where we’re able to write and produce the things that you do right now (1:19:21) We’re still messengers and trying to get our voice and learn these things (1:19:24) But I just want to say that you are able to do that for anyone that you don’t we’ve never met (1:19:30) You we’ve only spoken twice (1:19:32) We’ve never met and that you did that for a person because the message of the Liberty that we’re looking for (1:19:37) And I’m just grateful and I just want to thank you for offering yourself for that (1:19:43) Well, sure, man. Yeah, I’m happy to help at all times and and (1:19:47) Again, I can tell you guys how much I appreciate your interest in this book and in doing this project (1:19:52) This kind of book club that you’ve put together here about it and going through it all and and all that it matters a lot (1:19:58) To me that it means that much to you to to go through it and want to learn everything that’s in there (1:20:03) That’s it’s why the book is so thick. It’s I couldn’t help myself (1:20:06) That’s essentially everything that I know that I could tell you that’s not already and enough already (1:20:13) And and the books do kind of go together because there’s a lot of support for terrorism in that book (1:20:18) And so I think you know, especially if you read the two back-to-back (1:20:21) I’m not sure which is the best order to read them in but if you read the two back-to-back (1:20:26) Well, sir, I guess well depends if you’re if you just you want to know them both then and you’re and you’re gonna do them (1:20:33) both then (1:20:34) Maybe do enough already first cuz just cuz I wrote it first and it’s about all the Middle East stuff that all came to a (1:20:39) Head mostly all before this current time if you’re more interested in what’s going on right now (1:20:45) Obviously you read provoked, but I think if you read if you read enough already (1:20:52) Then first then when you read provoked and you have all that enough already stuff (1:20:58) It’s still kind of looming in the background that you still remember that like oh (1:21:01) That’s that same guy from the other thing or whatever.It is that you know, I hope that makes it a little more (1:21:06) Oh groundhog day. We never learn our lesson. It is crazy watching the scene.It is literally the Einstein. Yes insanity (1:21:12) It’s so there was so many times where we would meet and I’d go like oh, yeah, it’s like it feels like groundhog day (1:21:18) It feels like we were just here last week (1:21:22) I know like you would think too that I’m being unfair to people the way like I always pick on Francis Fukuyama and Fiona Hill (1:21:29) And James Clapper and and a few others of these characters, but it’s like it’s not my fault. Okay.I’m on Pierce’s today (1:21:36) I’m like laughing. Sorry. I’m sorry who was on there (1:21:41) Fukuyama was on there.Oh, yeah (1:21:43) Yeah, yeah (1:21:46) And and yeah, of course, I make mincemeat out of him in the book (1:21:48) And and yeah, like you might think like geez Scott Horton just really carries a vendetta against this Fukuyama guy, which yes, it’s true (1:21:54) But it’s also it’s not my fault that he’s part of the story all along and he keeps making himself part of the story (1:22:00) Like this is what your end of history looks like (1:22:02) Francis (1:22:04) You know palling around with a zombie Italian guys at Stanford, you know, well, we are we are over time Scott (1:22:10) I appreciate this conversation so much appreciate the book and all you do remind people where they can find (1:22:16) Your stuff the book and all that before we go (1:22:19) Okay, my show is at Scott Horton org. The audiobook is at Scott Horton show.com. I got (1:22:26) The HW Bush and about half of Bill Clinton up there. I recorded some more Bill Clinton for you yesterday.I’m working on it (1:22:34) Then (1:22:35) Where I say Scott Horton org Scott Horton show.com anti-war comm (1:22:39) Libertarian Institute org and of course amazon.com and (1:22:44) Read up everyone and thank you guys both so much (1:22:48) Yep. Thank you. Thank you again (1:22:50) And can you mention your team like Kyle and everybody to just because everybody your whole team on there? (1:22:54) They’re the messengers.Once again, this is all about the message because we gotta get these people. I mean people are listening now (1:23:00) So thank you again for everything (1:23:01) Well, so at anti-war comm it’s Eric Garris Dave DeCamp Jason Ditz Kyle Anzalone and then all of our great writers (1:23:09) Ted Snyder Ramsey Baroud and (1:23:13) Geez I don’t think and then over at the Libertarian Institute. We also have Kyle (1:23:21) He does he’s wears both hats there and then of course, there’s the the legends Jim Bovard Sheldon Richmond (1:23:28) The great Laurie Calhoun and Ted Galen Carpenter who’s formerly at Cato but got fired for being way too good.So now he writes for me (1:23:37) and then (1:23:38) you know the whole younger generation guys, I mentioned Kyle, but there’s Connor Freeman and (1:23:44) Hunter Durence’s and (1:23:46) Of course Patrick McFarlane and and our old friend Tommy Salmons as all our great podcasters (1:23:53) We were bringing on more and more new great writers (1:23:56) We have the great Brad Pierce is one of the sharpest foreign policy analysts around these days (1:24:01) Jose Nino who is kind of a right-leaning (1:24:04) Libertarian writer we recently brought him on and we have a brand new writer (1:24:09) That I just started publishing recently named Matt Wolfson (1:24:14) He goes on by the Twitter handle X left and I just had a really interesting conversation with him yesterday (1:24:21) he’s actually (1:24:23) not just X left but X close associate of many very horrible neocons and is (1:24:30) very very well versed in their entire culture and (1:24:34) Network and way of life up there in the bad guy corridor between Washington and New York there (1:24:40) so he promises to be writing some really great stuff for us and then oh and I should have mentioned William Bupert is our (1:24:47) Infantry officer and military intelligence officer writer one of America’s greatest critic of counterinsurgency (1:24:55) doctrine and it’s stupidity a veteran of the Afghan war and and other things and (1:25:02) I’m so sorry for whoever all I’m forgetting. I know I’m forgetting people Tom Woods is on a (1:25:07) We published Tom Woods great book and oh and Joe Solis Mullins (1:25:12) I should mention our Austrian school economist Joe Solis Mullins Tom (1:25:16) Edlum and Dan Sanchez all three are credentialed Austrian school guys (1:25:21) We just published Joe Solis Mullins recent book the national debt and you we published (1:25:27) Insanely good articles by Tom Edlum. He is just a genius (1:25:32) including one about crony capitalism that’s on the site right now and (1:25:37) Oh, and you know who else we’re publishing is James Rushmore (1:25:41) You might know as Matt Taibbi’s co-author at some of the work that they did on the Twitter files and the FOIA (1:25:47) Over there and he’s now writing for us too (1:25:49) In fact, I’m pretty sure guys that this is my biggest tweet ever was my tweet of his article about the Israel (1:25:57) Lobby targeting Thomas Massey if he tries to run for Senate and that got (1:26:02) Twelve or thirteen thousand likes and more than a thousand retweets.I’m pretty sure that’s the highest performing tweet (1:26:08) I ever tweeted was this article by James Rushmore. It’s a very well-done piece about (1:26:13) The Israel Lobby’s vendetta against Massey not that he ever did anything against them just that he doesn’t support them and that’s enough (1:26:19) So well, you got he beat the a 300,000 against him from a pack for his (1:26:25) I’m sure and you mentioned Tom Woods and I’d like to just mention Tom Woods that you published that because Diary of a Psychosis everybody (1:26:32) Read that book. It is just my opener (1:26:35) It’s about kovat and it looks we published this we’ve published 16 books so far and we got more coming out (1:26:41) Kyle Ansel is working on two right now.We’ve got one by Ken Silva that’s coming out (1:26:47) I don’t want to tell you too much about it. But Ken Silva is a great investigative journalist from headline USA (1:26:52) He may be familiar with him. He writes for us as well.And I swear this is true (1:26:56) I keep saying it and it keeps getting delayed (1:26:58) but (1:26:58) William Van Wagenen has written a book about (1:27:01) Obama’s dirty war in Syria the origins of the dirty war in Syria and he just got back from Syria where he is as (1:27:09) Recently, this has been our recent delay as he went back to Syria to write a chapter on (1:27:14) Syria now after the overthrow of Bashar al-assad last December (1:27:17) So and this is just the highest quality stuff and it is our fundraiser right now and we have matching funds with (1:27:24) $25,000 worth of matching funds. So (1:27:28) anything that (1:27:29) people donate immediately gets doubled up to (1:27:32) $25,000 and we’re trying to raise 60 and (1:27:36) We don’t have a big fancy office and we don’t have you know, plush carpets. We’re all essentially just doing the work and (1:27:44) Your dollar goes essentially straight to fighting for peace and freedom, so that’s it.So that’s the pitch (1:27:50) We got great kickbacks for you as well. And that’s all at Libertarian Institute org slash donate and (1:27:56) I can’t and yeah, look I I don’t like to brag and boast but (1:28:00) It’s the same as I used to always say about my radio show like look (1:28:03) I don’t have all the best broadcasting skills (1:28:05) But I have an excellent taste in guests and it’s the same thing with the team I put together here at the Libertarian Institute (1:28:11) They’re doing all the work (1:28:13) You know, I’m just you know (1:28:15) That’s why I wanted to recognize because we’re just we’re just blessed to have all these people contributing the way (1:28:21) They’re so good. All of them are so good.Did I’m I don’t tell me I skipped Keith Knight Keith Knight is (1:28:26) Yeah, I did now (1:28:31) Yeah (1:28:33) There’s so many kids and they’re all 27 and whatever is I can’t keep track anymore (1:28:38) There’s too many guys, but look I think look man. I’ll go ahead and boast it with a straight face (1:28:43) I think that the Libertarian Institute is second best after the Mises Institute in the whole world for awesomeness and (1:28:50) There’s no way I could ever take away what Mises has accomplished. I just had per violin on so I know I know it to me (1:28:57) Yeah, no, these guys absolute cream of the crop, but we’re second best compared to them and compared (1:29:03) I won’t name names of the other major Libertarian institutions, but I think we’re better than all of them (1:29:07) It’s at Mises and I’ll be happy to take second place to those guys because they’re better than anyone could have ever hoped for (1:29:13) So well, we it’s weird that the ideology is freedom and Liberty (1:29:17) It’s like look if I had the power I’d want to use it.So knowing that I don’t want the power (1:29:23) I don’t want anyone to have it because they’d use it simple. Thank you guys (1:29:31) Awesome well, thank you both for being here tonight. Thanks everybody for listening (1:29:35) Definitely, please support Scott and his work.I think (1:29:40) If I can put the links of humbly Mises Libertarian Institute anti-war calm and us here at LCI (1:29:46) Oh, yeah, say top top four top five Liberty institutions that you should be consuming looking at daily and (1:29:54) Supporting however, you can so thanks again Scott for everything you’ve done (1:29:59) We talk and talking to you again soon mark and shout out to Sean who couldn’t be here tonight (1:30:04) But Sean, sorry, we miss you, buddy. We love you. We’ll do it again soon.All right talk to