We talk Scott Horton’s “Provoked”. Every Monday, starting 12/9/2024, at 7:30pm Eastern, for the next 8 weeks, we cover ~80 pages of the book in a livestream.
Transcript:
(0:12) Hello everybody, I’m Jacob Winograd, host of the Biblical Anarchy podcast here at the (0:17) Libertarian Christian Institute, and I’m streaming to you live in the LCI Green Room. (0:23) I’ve got an interesting show tonight. (0:25) We’re going to introduce a couple of new friends I’ve made and talk about something that we’re (0:30) going to be doing here shortly.(0:33) Before we get into that, please make sure, those of you who are watching, wherever you’re (0:37) watching, make sure you give this video, wherever you’re watching, a thumbs up, that way more (0:42) people can see it, and then also make sure you’re subscribed if you haven’t already, (0:46) that way you guys can get notifications anytime that we’re going live, and you’ll especially (0:51) want to do that going forward because we got some really good stuff coming down the pipeline (0:56) for you guys. (0:57) I don’t want to waste too much time with the normal podcast filibustering here at the (1:04) beginning. (1:05) I got a couple of brothers here tonight who I’m excited to introduce and talk to.(1:11) I got Sean Collins, who is the host of the Bud in Reality podcast, and then Mark Pulse, (1:18) who is the host of the Knocked Conscious Podcast. (1:22) So, brothers, how are you doing tonight? (1:24) Good, man. (1:25) Very good.(1:25) Thanks for having me on. (1:26) Really appreciate it. (1:28) Awesome.(1:29) Thank you for having us. (1:31) Yeah, of course. (1:32) So, and you guys are also streaming to your channels, so I guess I’ll just do a quick (1:37) introduction for myself, for your guys’ audience.(1:41) I’m, as I already said, Jacob Winograd, the host of the Biblical Anarchy podcast, and (1:46) I work for the Libertarian Christian Institute. (1:48) We have a whole slew of podcasts, part of our Christians for Liberty network, so if (1:53) you want to hear more about, you know, the Libertarian message from a Christian perspective, (1:59) you can go check us out at LibertarianChristians.com. (2:03) And yeah, also, I always forget to plug this, and I need to get better at it, but I’m also (2:09) a co-founder of the Libertarian Party Christian Caucus. (2:13) So don’t have a website for us yet, but you can find us on Twitter, Facebook, all that, (2:19) so definitely check out the Christian Caucus.(2:22) We’ve got a lot of good stuff in the works there as well. (2:25) Well, I want to introduce you guys to my audience, because I’ve never had either of you on before, (2:31) interacted with you guys on X, or as we used to call it, Twitter. (2:35) You guys, what’s a little poll, do you guys call it X or Twitter, because I kind of just (2:40) go back and forth, because I can’t get used to calling it X, it feels weird.(2:45) It’s whatever comes out at the time, really, like, I still call it both, I mean, every (2:50) once in a while, I try to be proper and call it X, but Twitter just kind of comes out, (2:54) because that’s what it was. (2:56) Dead name, Twitter. (2:58) You’re muted, Mark.(3:02) Mark, you’re muted, buddy. (3:04) Yeah, so it’s like the Twitter X thing, I just say both, it’s like Twitter X or Twix (3:10) or something. (3:11) It’s like you catch yourself.(3:13) Yeah, there you go. (3:15) They need to change the name to that and get Twix to be a sponsor, it’d be funny. (3:20) Okay, well, let’s go, Sean, how about you introduce yourself first a little bit, take (3:26) five minutes or so, kind of give your background, what your podcast is about, what do you get (3:30) into, and then we’ll go to Mark.(3:33) Right on, well, I’m Sean Collins, I host the Buds in Reality podcast, you can find us anywhere (3:38) on all the platforms we’re there, and all the ads are at Buds in Reality, BNR, just (3:44) like GNR, Guns and Roses, it’s a homage to them, kind of. (3:47) But I am a very radical anarchist who is very much done with the state, I’ve seen enough, (3:56) and my show kind of showcases that, but I like talking about economics, the monetary (4:04) system and foreign policy really are what I drive on my shows, but I’ve had some authors (4:09) on too, where I talk about books, like people like Carol Roth, and I’ve had Scott Horton (4:13) on and stuff like that, talking about their books, and I have a really good time with (4:17) that stuff. (4:18) But really, it’s just about trying to get people to move to liberty, this isn’t working, (4:25) whatever’s going on out there, it’s not working, and we have to be good messengers on being (4:32) able to come up with solutions, not only, I think that’s one thing that libertarians (4:37) lack is they have a lot of ideas, but don’t have a way to push them forward, they don’t (4:44) have the plan, they have ideas, but there’s no plan, but that’s pretty much anyone in (4:48) politics, really.(4:51) But it’s one of those things I’m really passionate about, I have a degree in radio broadcasting (4:55) from one of the best broadcasting schools in the United States, Spexhoward here in Detroit, (5:01) great place, a lot of big names came out of there, so it’s kind of just fun to do this (5:07) pod and not have school be a complete waste of time and money. (5:13) Right on, right on, yeah, you gotta, if you hadn’t said you were an anarchist, the little (5:19) Spooner flag in the background would have given it away, I didn’t sign, I didn’t sign (5:25) crap. (5:25) I remember when I first became a libertarian and got real like, you know, ANCAP pilled (5:33) right away, pretty quick, like some people will say it takes, you know, what’s the difference (5:37) between a minarchist and an anarchist, about six months, for me it was about six minutes.(5:42) I took the whole bottle of red pills and then thought that I was like living in a simulation, (5:50) but the first libertarian gathering I went to was a little Christmas gathering, we were (5:55) supposed to bring ornaments to decorate the tree, and so I got a little card, and on the (6:01) front of the card, I made it like all fancy calligraphy, had my wife help me, said social (6:05) contract, and then when you opened it up, it was just a gun pointing at you. (6:13) Like, there you go, that was the social contract, it’s like, do what I say or I’ll use force (6:19) against you, pretty much it. (6:21) Mark, go ahead and take a few minutes to introduce yourself as well and talk about your podcast.(6:27) Yeah, well, thanks for having me. (6:29) To your point, it’s funny, I was trying to teach my girlfriend about the government, (6:32) so we just started watching Sopranos. (6:36) This is government.(6:37) Watch, see this part? (6:39) Yeah, this is the tax part, this is the taxation part, here’s your eminent domain, so it’s (6:44) kind of fun. (6:46) My name is Mark, I got a podcast called Knocked Conscious. (6:50) Basically, I am a very normal person who had a very abnormal experience at 40, I had a (6:55) near-death experience at 13, I started doing this podcast just to talk to people about (7:00) different things.(7:01) So I talk to people like Taj Jackson’s nephew, or Michael Jackson’s nephew Taj, about the (7:07) Michael Jackson allegations, I’ll talk to Jeff Hester of Hubble Telescope fame, things (7:12) like that. (7:13) So I talk wide and deep and broad, and I came across Bud’s in reality, I came across Sean, (7:19) and I’ve always had thought differently about, I guess politically, I’ve thought differently (7:25) than most people, but I kind of was a little bit of a neocon in the 90s, and I even enlisted (7:31) for the military, failed the physical. (7:34) Thank goodness, actually, in hindsight I did, because I think I would have been one of those (7:37) troubled soldiers coming back.(7:39) But once that veil got ripped off about the reality of that, it just opened the flood (7:45) gates for everything. (7:46) And one of the greatest things Sean’s ever said to me is, no one starts out a (7:51) libertarian. We all kind of become that, and it’s like we all come from somewhere, and (7:57) we vacillate through our ideologies and we kind of settle on this thing that seems to (8:02) work, or would work for everyone if we could all kind of get on board.(8:06) Yeah, I mean, it’s funny because I pick a name for my podcast that’s pretty on the (8:15) nose, like Biblical Anarchy. (8:16) So whenever someone from my real life, personal life, or people I go to church with (8:22) hear it, they’re just like, uh, anarchy? (8:24) And it’s like, of course, you get all the strange looks, all the typical objections, (8:30) and it’s just like, and they’re just like, but anarchy? (8:33) I’m just like, what are you talking about? (8:34) Like, 99% of your life is anarchy, and it’s just the 1% or less where the state comes (8:41) in and decides that things have to be done with coercion and violence. (8:45) And we all pretty much complain about that anyway and realize half the time that (8:51) that’s dumb and wrong.(8:52) So like, you know, I mean, we don’t actually, contrary to popular belief, you don’t (8:57) need the constant threat of, I mean, I guess, yeah, there’s like, I guess, the (9:03) constant sort of implied threat of like, if you punch someone, they might punch you (9:07) back. (9:07) But that’s a little bit different than, you know, we have guns pointed at each other (9:11) the whole time to make sure that we act civilized. (9:13) It’s just, I mean, even as a Christian, and I believe in, like, you know, original (9:18) sin, I believe that humans are fallen.(9:21) So it’s not that I’m a utopian. (9:22) It’s just that, like, you know, if we’re human and we’re fallen, then we should (9:26) probably be careful about giving these fallen humans too much power. (9:30) Because whether it’s today or in the Bible, that tends to not go well for people.(9:38) So, yeah, no, I mean, the power is the power is the problem, right? (9:42) It’s not like someone’s going to wield it for good, but the next person won’t yield it (9:47) for good. So it’s really the power that becomes a problem. (9:49) So we just want to defang the government as much as possible so that whoever holds the (9:54) reins doesn’t have as much of an effect.(9:57) Absolutely. Well, brothers, we could do a whole show just talking about anarchy, and (10:03) that that sounds like something fun to do at some point in the future. (10:06) We we got some other fun things in store for people, and I titled this on my side (10:12) special announcement.(10:14) So let’s go ahead and talk a little bit about that announcement. (10:18) I think it was your guys’s idea first. (10:21) And then I kind of like jumped on and was like, oh, heck yeah, let’s do this.(10:25) So, Sean, you want to talk a little bit about just like what the idea, like how this (10:30) started, where the three of us kind of got together and decided we were going to do (10:35) something. Well, I mean, it all started on Twitter, really. (10:39) So everybody, you know, bought Provoked and they they took their picture with it and (10:43) whatever and posted it because you got to do it.(10:45) It’s just one of those things when Scott comes out with a new book because the guy is (10:49) just flipping brilliant, man. (10:50) And, you know, and I was kind of excited about it. (10:55) And then somebody had commented on how thick it was.(10:58) And I was like, yeah, it’s about as thick as the Bible is for real. (11:02) Like it’s a thick book, man. (11:04) And, you know, and then Mark had posted something and I was like, I think I commented (11:10) on your thing, Mark.(11:11) And I said, I kind of want to do like a book club thing on this or whatever. (11:16) You know, that would be fun. (11:18) And all of a sudden, Scott Horton retweets it and was like, anybody interested? (11:22) And I was like, oh, my God, are you kidding me right now? (11:25) So I guess this is, you know, all right, cool.(11:28) And then you and then Jacob chimes in. (11:31) He’s like, you know, I’m interested or something like that, you know, get a hold of (11:35) me. And I was like, all right, we’re cool.(11:36) And then next thing you know, we’re all in the group group chat on X. (11:40) And and here we are on on the pod. (11:45) Yeah, that’s that’s basically how it happened. (11:47) And then I we had a we had a discussion last just a few days ago on Saturday and kind (11:55) of roadmapped where we wanted to take this.(11:57) And so that’s going to be like a two like two parallel things going on at the same (12:03) time. So we’re going to start starting pretty much the same time as today over the (12:09) next eight, nine weeks on Mondays at 730 where we split the book into eight sections (12:15) and we’re going to kind of go roughly I think it’s like between 80 to 90 pages per (12:19) second per section and go through the book, you know, come together, talk about it, go (12:26) into different themes, things we learned, go into the massive footnotes section of the (12:33) book as well. And we find some of those that are interesting to kind of, you know, blow (12:37) up and maybe read some of the primary sources that Scott’s pulling from there.(12:42) I think they were really good, not only to promote the book, but to just, you know, (12:46) really edify people just with learning more about the history of this stuff, because I (12:52) mean, I feel like the three of us probably even before we read this book, no more than (12:57) the average Joe. (12:58) But man, I mean, just even the first section, I think, man, I knew that the end of the (13:04) Cold War and the promises they made and all that, like I knew it was bad, but like, man, (13:10) it was even worse than I thought. (13:11) And I don’t want to spoil too much for next week, because that’ll be the very beginning (13:15) of what we talk about.(13:17) But like that’s just the beginning of the book. (13:18) And it’s like we’re not I’m not even halfway halfway through it yet. (13:23) But this is kind of, you know, as a Christian, I’m hesitant to compare it too strongly to (13:28) the Bible.But, you know, any book, not just, you know, Christians have Bible studies, but (13:34) any book of sufficient length, of sufficient sophistication that has multiple narratives (13:42) and things going on at the same time, I think warrants, you know, a more like it’s not (13:48) just like when you read other of Scott’s book, they’re still informative, but they’re (13:53) kind of like he’s just telling one like enough already or fool’s errand. (13:57) Like those are, you know, much easier reads and you could do a book club on them. (14:04) But this kind of book, I think especially deserves a much longer, more sort of like, (14:10) you know, a slow burn approach rather than kind of like going through it as quickly as (14:16) you can.I totally agree with you. (14:21) It’s been it’s been a crazy thing. (14:22) Because so so for everybody listening in, we’re looking at every week, it’s 12 to 15 (14:27) pages a week a week or a day.(14:29) So if you can read 20 pages a day, you’ll be well ahead of it. (14:33) But that said, it is a dense read, gentlemen. (14:37) Holy mackerel.(14:38) It’s got so much information. (14:40) And what’s interesting for me is like what’s really interesting is the beginning of it. (14:44) Once again, we’re not going to get too early is I’m German descent.(14:47) My my father was born in Germany in 1940. (14:49) My mom in Germany, 1944. (14:51) My grandfather was a Nazi soldier.(14:54) My mom then became East German. (14:56) They escaped East Germany in 1953 when before the wall went up. (15:00) I know I have history with family and everything from East Germany.(15:03) I read the beginning of Provoked. (15:05) I had no idea any of that information. (15:08) And this is from someone who comes from both sides of that history, doesn’t even know (15:12) what’s going on.So I found that so interesting how much Scott can dig up. (15:19) He’s the GOAT. (15:21) When it comes to foreign policy, Scott Horton is the GOAT, you know, he’s second to (15:27) none.I would actually like to know who his mentor is, though. (15:30) You know what I mean? Like who’s Scott getting all his stuff from? (15:33) Because, you know, we all look up to him or whatever. (15:36) But like who’s Scott? (15:37) You know, you know, who’s his guy? (15:39) He references a question right down for him when we talk to him.(15:42) Yeah, well, that’s where we’re going to do. (15:43) I’m sure we’ll make it happen. (15:45) We’re going to end it at some point when we’re done, either the last week or the week (15:50) after.We’ll have Scott on do kind of a big finale, sort of, you know, looking back (15:56) retrospective of the book, of the time we spent talking about it. (16:00) So it’ll be good. It’ll be because, yeah, this is a thick read.(16:03) And there’ll be some sections that some people, even maybe the three of us, are going (16:08) to be like, man, it’s like, you know, because sometimes you have to talk things out (16:12) loud to be like, so this led to this and then this person did that and just kind of (16:16) like help to actually make sense of all the facts that you’re putting into your brain (16:20) and talk it out with people is a good way for us. (16:23) And then hopefully for you, the listeners who are also reading along to kind of (16:27) understand a little bit more about what’s going on. (16:32) Simultaneously, I got together with my people over at LCI and we’re going to be (16:36) putting out a it won’t be like a live show or anything.(16:40) We already do monthly book studies like book club. (16:46) And so we’re going to LCI is going to kind of like partner with what we’re doing here (16:49) on these live streams. (16:50) And so people are LCI are going to be going along with us and and they’re going to be (16:56) watching these live streams as well to kind of be a supplement, because this is the (16:59) kind of book that more is better.(17:02) Right. The more the more you can be looking into this stuff under it, because, again, (17:05) it’s tying in. We’re talking about, I mean, how many different actors? (17:09) We have the Russian government.(17:10) We have the Ukrainian government. (17:12) We have the other former USSR nations around there who are at different points in (17:17) time joining NATO. (17:20) We, of course, have the Western European governments and they have their own roles to (17:25) play in this as well as Germany has a huge role to play.(17:29) There’s just so many moving pieces. (17:31) And it’s I mean, it reminds me of like when people get really into like fandoms and (17:36) shows, except this is real life. (17:38) And unfortunately, the the stakes are nuclear war.(17:41) So as much as I’m interested in it, it’s kind of like I’m interested in it and also (17:46) like forced to be interested in it because maybe we can talk about this a little bit (17:50) like this isn’t just something to be done for the intellectual edification of it, (17:56) although there’s certainly that. (17:57) But I think all three of us agree, and we were talking about this on Saturday in our (18:01) private conversation, that these ideas, these, you know, like I don’t like using the (18:10) term revisionist history to go back and debunk the mainstream narrative about a lot (18:15) of this stuff. It’s really important because I think we would all agree that there does (18:19) seem to be a rising sentiment in people who are willing to be skeptical of government (18:25) and skeptical of the role America plays on the global stage.(18:28) But they’re still easily influenced and led along if they don’t understand the (18:33) propaganda. And I think this book and hopefully we can play a part in distributing (18:39) this book and the book’s ideas into the culture, into the population, the more people (18:46) understand how to debunk the propaganda, the less these butchers, these despots who roll (18:54) over us, these warmongers, the less effective they’re going to be in convincing the (18:58) American population to go along with their machinations. (19:02) Which you pretty much hit the nail on the head there.(19:04) You know, we have, you know, the mainstream media has been lying to this nation now for (19:11) over two years about this. (19:12) The whole premise of this is BS. (19:16) I’m going to try to keep my language down for you.(19:18) I know this is your LCI thing, but like we got duped the whole time. (19:22) They lied about everything. (19:24) Listen, they lied about Iraq, you know, over 20 years ago.(19:28) And you want to turn around and be here right now and believe the nonsense they’re (19:33) spitting on TV about Ukraine. (19:35) In the meantime, sending over 200 billion dollars over there at this point and all (19:40) kinds of weapons, taxpayer dollars. (19:42) By the way, there’s boots on the ground there, too, which they lied about that as (19:46) well.You know, I think we should be educating people as much as possible and going (19:51) through this book. The way we’re going to go through it is going to be amazing, (19:55) especially for people who aren’t familiar with what’s going on right now. (20:00) But like it’s time to wake people up, like they just sent another, you know, seven (20:04) hundred and twenty five million dollars of weapons there.(20:07) What was that today or yesterday? (20:09) Like, as Scott would say, enough already, man, like people need to wake up to this (20:13) nonsense. Crazy. (20:16) Yeah.And to your point, Jacob, what’s really interesting is we’re not just looking (20:19) back at this to rewrite this. (20:21) I’m looking at it akin to we’re calling we called Trump Hitler for four years or eight (20:26) years or whatever. We’re calling Putin and Trump, you know, buddies in arms of some (20:31) kind of megalomaniac, global whatever.(20:35) This is very similar where there were choices that we could have made during World War (20:40) One and during World War Two that totally forced hands to do other things. (20:45) That doesn’t defend the actions. (20:47) It explains them.(20:49) And maybe if we made different choices, those actions wouldn’t have happened. (20:52) Right. So this is why we get to look at this, because this it’s like the history (20:56) doesn’t repeat itself, but but humanity does.(21:00) Right. It rhymes because humanity really repeats itself. (21:03) So we find these times where we have these multiple offerings and multiple conflicts (21:07) that we either dig our heels in the different, you know, make a choice that just isn’t (21:11) ideal.Ultimately. (21:14) One hundred percent agree. You know, there’s a it’s not even it’s not a uniquely (21:18) Christian idea because I think it’s just a philosophical idea, but it’s also something (21:22) talked about like in because I engage a lot in Christian theology and in insider, (21:28) like, you know, Christian debates over what the Bible teaches and what, you know, (21:33) church tradition, what church teachings are.(21:35) And a lot of people will push back against the Christian libertarian position by (21:39) saying, like, well, I mean, you know, come on, we’re not pacifists. (21:43) We believe in self-defense. (21:44) We have a just war theory.(21:47) And I often like to go, OK, like, let’s look into just war theory. (21:51) What does it actually teach? (21:53) And there’s a lot of actually elements to just war theory. (21:56) But one of the elements is that for war to be just, all options for peace need to be (22:02) pursued and exhausted before you resort to violence as the means for defusing or (22:08) ending the conflict.(22:10) And I think that it’s useful to like, because I think a lot of people, you know, (22:13) again, because they everyone just has the meme in their head of just like, well, (22:17) sometimes you just got to go to war and beat the bad guy. (22:19) That’s what we did in World War II against the Nazis. (22:21) And that’s a whole other rabbit.(22:23) You’re like, people aren’t ready for the World War II revisionist history. (22:27) I mean, we’ll get there eventually. (22:28) Right.But it’s like, fine. (22:30) Like, you know, even if you wanted to grant them that, like, OK, maybe. (22:33) Yeah.I mean, listen, yeah, the Nazis were horrible. (22:35) Hitler was horrible. I’m not sad that they were defeated.(22:38) But I will say that to boil everything down to just good guys versus bad guys is, you (22:45) know, it’s like boiling everything down to a Saturday morning cartoon. (22:49) And the real world ain’t like that. (22:51) The Bible wasn’t like that.(22:52) You read the Bible, read the Old Testament and the New Testament. (22:54) It’s a bunch of flawed people struggling against other flawed people. (22:58) And even the people that God says, you know, hey, I’ve chosen you and you’re going (23:01) to do good.They do all sorts of bad, horrible stuff. (23:04) So we shouldn’t expect today to be any different. (23:07) And I think but to go back to what I was saying, if the whole idea is that (23:12) governments are just and going to war, if they exhaust all options for peace, it’s (23:16) like, man, I mean, you get you get one chapter into this and you go, I’m not sure (23:21) about they’re really I’m not sure they’re it’s not even that they’re not exhausting (23:26) all options for peace.It’s like they weren’t even pursuing peace in the first (23:30) place. It becomes very clear, very quickly that peace is is not the goal. (23:35) I mean, peace might be the long term goal in terms of like, you know, the sort of (23:39) peace that comes when either everyone’s enslaved or everyone’s dead.(23:43) Yeah, I tell people it’s like, hey, yeah, you know, you’re straying away. (23:46) Yeah. Well, peace through.Yeah. (23:48) Don’t get me started on that piece. (23:50) Peace through strength leads to peace through, you know, the the the the quiet (23:55) tranquility of nuclear fallout that encompasses the entire planet when everyone’s (24:01) dead because they’ve been burnt to bits to be real peaceful then.(24:08) Really quiet. Yep. (24:11) So maybe we can because I mean, we don’t want to spoil too much, too, too quickly (24:18) here, but maybe we can both all three of us before we hop off here, maybe talk (24:24) about just from what we know already, the part of the history, the part of what (24:30) this book talks about that we’re looking forward to getting to the most, you know, (24:35) whether it’s a certain presidency or a certain like event that we remember (24:38) happening, like one of the revolutions or anything, you know, Mark, you go first.(24:43) What’s one of the things that you’re looking forward to the most covering in (24:48) this series that we’re going to do? (24:51) I think what I’m really interested in and ultimately, I guess, first of all, getting (24:56) through the darn thing, first of all, he wasn’t joking. (25:00) This thing is this big and it’s this thick, man. (25:04) I mean, you want to talk about you want to talk about an assault weapon.(25:08) You got one right here, but. (25:12) Ultimately, I want to see all the quotes, all the things that we knew, actively (25:18) knew and then chose to be to make a decision that was so wholeheartedly (25:25) incorrect, like just in the beginning of this, all we’ve heard just in the first (25:30) whatever pages that we’ve gone through is, you know, this is really going to, you (25:35) know, people aren’t going to like that. (25:38) You know, this maybe we, you know, maybe we kind of sort of, you know, you hear this (25:44) thousands of times, 10 pages in.(25:47) Right. And you’re just trying to figure out like, OK, and it didn’t stop right (25:51) there, like that early. (25:53) So it’s the title is so perfect.(25:57) I mean, it’s truly provoked. (25:59) You know, it’s there has been a provocation. (26:02) And we we actually weaponize that that phrase, right? (26:07) An unprovoked attack by Putin, an unprovoked attack.(26:11) And then you’re like, was it really? (26:13) Because. Oh, good. (26:15) Well, it’s one of those cases where thou dost protest too much.(26:18) Like, I definitely didn’t punch that guy in the face. (26:21) Hey, guys, I definitely didn’t punch it. (26:23) I know his nose is bleeding, but I didn’t punch him in the face.(26:26) I definitely. Yes. (26:28) Well, that’s funny, because like when we when we circle back, I talk about history (26:31) and World War two is I looked at Pearl Harbor and we talk.(26:34) There was this eight some page I saw. (26:37) It even has a Wikipedia page, which is shocking. (26:39) That hasn’t been scrubbed yet.(26:40) But it’s some like eight point declaration to push Japan (26:44) into a corner for them to kind of lash out at us. (26:48) You know, it was like cutting them off from oil here and then doing this (26:50) and then maneuvering this way. (26:52) I forget what it was called, but it was some interesting thing.(26:54) And you’re sitting there going, yeah, you can easily poke the bear (26:57) until they strike and go, see, we should have sat on him the whole time (27:01) because he’s a bear and he struck at us. (27:03) So, you know, it’s an interesting way to look at that. (27:06) Mark, that’s that’s just Japanese propaganda that you’re repeating there.(27:10) I didn’t if you knew that or not. (27:12) I mean, that’s Sean, what’s your (27:17) what’s the part of of this book of the of the history (27:20) we’re going to be covering that you’re looking forward the most to covering? (27:25) Really, the beginning, the origins of it are extremely important. (27:29) Like I pretty much got, you know, without the book, you know, (27:33) without even reading it, you know, all the way through or whatever.(27:35) Like I know a lot about what’s going on out there just because I (27:39) you know, I read a lot of stuff and, you know, kind of pay attention. (27:43) But the origins of it are extremely important. (27:46) There are some stuff I didn’t know in there.(27:49) And, you know, they talk about the Berlin Wall going down. (27:52) And that is something I actually that’s as as a middle age. (27:56) I’m in my mid 40s.(27:57) You know, that was one of the first big events I remember as a child, (28:02) you know, was the Berlin Wall going down, but not really knowing. (28:06) You know, we just saw, hey, you know, the Germans are going to be together (28:09) and be free and, you know, whatever. (28:11) I didn’t know as a child, you know, there was more to the story than that.(28:16) And the piece of it. (28:18) Yeah. And even even even like I remember, God, they made songs.(28:21) I mean, the Scorpions came out with a song called The Wind of Change, (28:24) which was like the ultimate power ballad, you know, for that time. (28:29) And, you know, it was about peace and love and stuff like that. (28:31) And it was all about the Berlin Wall because they’re they’re from Germany, (28:35) you know, and so they made a big to do about that.(28:38) You know, I remember that vividly. (28:39) And I was probably maybe eight or 10 years old, somewhere in there. (28:43) I mean, I was I was young.(28:47) Yeah. And so I grew up. (28:48) I’m I’m probably younger than both of you.(28:49) I’m I’m only 32. (28:51) I was born 92. So I was born after all that stuff.(28:54) But I remember growing up in the wake of it. Right. (28:57) And like in elementary school being taught like like, oh, it’s this miracle (29:01) like the USSR and the Cold War, this was also horrible.(29:05) But then like capitalism won and the USSR (29:09) turned and broke up. (29:10) And it’s Russia now in all these countries. (29:12) And we’re all just friends.(29:14) And it’s all because of just American greatness and American exceptionalism. (29:18) And it’s just going to be, you know, my democracy spreading from, you know, (29:22) all from the from the west to the east, from now until eternity. (29:26) And it’s just like, you know, like I grew up in like when you go back (29:30) and you read the things that the neocons wrote about, about like this (29:33) being the unipolar moment, about about this being the (29:37) what they called it in PNAC, the project for a new American century, (29:41) like all the things they talked about.(29:42) I was like in my formative years as a child. (29:45) I was growing up in that stuff (29:48) being pushed from the top down through the media, through the public education. (29:54) And then 9-11 happens and you get so focused on the war on terror (29:58) that then like suddenly like you’re not paying attention.(30:01) Like even I became pretty anti-war from a young age (30:05) because I’m part of the generation that saw 9-11 happen as a kid. (30:08) And then like as we started to become teenagers, we went, hold on. (30:14) Like you told us that there were weapons of mass destruction (30:17) and there weren’t.And you told us they hated us for our freedom. (30:20) But actually, we’ve been over there, over there, killing them and occupying them (30:24) and they’re overthrowing their governments for decades. (30:26) So we started to question that.(30:28) But but none of us were like Russia wasn’t on our radar. (30:31) And it’s just in the background. (30:32) It’s just like, you know, oh, we’re all still friends.(30:35) And there’s just this problem in the Middle East. (30:37) And then suddenly in, you know, 2014 and the crisis in Georgia, (30:42) it’s just like, what happened? (30:44) And it’s like this. (30:46) So it starts to crack the foundation.(30:48) But for at least me, it did. (30:50) But for others, it seems like it just it it reinforced to them that like, (30:55) oh, well, that just means America. (30:57) Like it’s one of those things where it’s not falsifiable, right? (30:59) Like America as the world empire, American hegemony, (31:04) like these things are just good for the world.(31:07) And when things go to crap, it’s just because we weren’t (31:10) we weren’t involved enough, right? (31:12) It wasn’t because we were too involved. (31:14) It’s because we didn’t kill enough people. (31:17) We didn’t overthrow enough government.(31:19) So we didn’t drop bombs on enough. (31:20) It’s like it’s unfalsifiable. (31:22) They hate our freedom.(31:24) I like my favorite. (31:25) They hate our freedom. (31:27) Like what what policy of Putin’s has ever affected me? (31:32) I can tell you a million policies that Biden has made that have affected me directly.(31:35) But not a single Putin policy has affected me probably as an American citizen. (31:41) I’ll tell you something about Putin, man. (31:43) And if I may even double up on that, as I once again, I’m from Germany, (31:46) like November 9th, 1989 is a date that sticks in my head.(31:51) I have a piece of the wall like we had. (31:53) I was in a German club like my parent, my mom and grandfather. (31:56) My grandmother escaped East Germany, my aunt.(31:59) It’s a crazy story like I watching this and watching that (32:03) and watching how Germany’s culture of anti-communism. (32:07) I mean, Germany and Russia loathe each other. (32:10) Like if if if Hitler didn’t turn on on Stalin, (32:15) I think we’re looking at a very different country, you know, or a different world.(32:19) You know what I mean? (32:19) Like that that that went sour. (32:22) You know what I mean? (32:22) So like there’s so much history in that and watching this stuff unfold (32:26) and watching where we could make very clear changes (32:29) that don’t push this certain needle a certain direction with a nuclear power. (32:33) Oh, by the way, they have the most of all nuclear powers.(32:36) They have the most of them. (32:38) You know, don’t worry. (32:39) They’re just they’re forget.(32:41) I got to find the source. (32:42) I was talking to Scott about it last week on my show, (32:45) but it was like the New York Times or the Post. (32:47) Someone was like, well, government, U.S. (32:49) intelligence says that Russia is unlikely to use nuclear weapons (32:53) as a response to the increased, you know, the attacks (32:57) and the increased American involvement.(32:59) It’s like, oh, that’s reassuring. (33:03) Like it’s not that they won’t. (33:05) It’s just that they’re unlikely.(33:06) Right. I was like, that’s like (33:08) that makes me feel so good that our government leader is like, don’t worry. (33:12) Don’t worry.(33:12) The saber rattling is only, you know, (33:14) it’s only like a 10 percent chance it turns in the nuclear war. (33:18) And what we’re looking at, like, look at Iran, (33:20) look at the whole thing where cash is and everybody’s pushing like it’s Iran. (33:23) It’s Iran.It’s Iran. (33:24) And we’re like, guys, are we really going to do this again? (33:27) We are literally in the middle of one. (33:29) And you’re already starting on the next one.(33:31) You’re already starting on the next one, man. (33:33) Come on. (33:33) So what what’s your favorite part going to be? (33:35) What are you looking forward to most, Jacob? (33:39) Oh, that’s a good question.(33:40) I’m probably looking forward the most. (33:43) I mean, there’s a couple of sections, but I talk about some of my show. (33:46) I’m looking forward to diving into the history live on this, (33:50) on the on the shows together we’re doing of the Nazi presence (33:54) in the Ukrainian military and government, which has been like, (33:58) that’s just a Putin talking point.(34:00) You’re just working for the Kremlin. (34:01) If you say that, it’s like, no, no. (34:03) Actually, like for all the talk about how, like, you know, (34:08) we have to be a force in the world because of the Nazis.(34:10) It’s like, well, we’re supporting a government that has more Nazis and it’s (34:16) in its power structures and military apparatus than anywhere else in the world (34:21) and really anywhere else in the world since Nazi Germany itself. (34:24) Yeah, I mean, and what’s his name? (34:32) Belitsky, I’m bad with foreign names, but the head of it, the founder. (34:37) Oh, yeah, I got it.(34:39) Yeah, he’s he’s got a weird, weird name, like Belitsky or Blitzy or something like that. (34:44) He’s he’s still there. (34:46) It’s like he’s he’s still actively serving.(34:50) I was talking to Scott about it when he was on the other day. (34:52) But yeah, that’s that’s that’s one section I’m I’m definitely looking forward to (34:57) getting into. (34:58) And you know what’s funny? (35:00) You guys brought up.(35:02) Mark, you just brought up Iran, like, and I’ve done this on my show a few times. (35:07) And I don’t know if I can find a good. (35:10) I can’t find a good picture here.(35:12) But like, just if you just go to a map, I always tell people, like, when you’re (35:15) listening to current events, you’re studying history of global affairs, (35:19) like get a map in front of you and look at where all these countries are. (35:23) And then when you look at what’s going on right now, you look at the fact that we (35:25) are involved in this proxy war with Russia through Ukraine, and we’re supporting Israel, (35:30) what’s going on in Gaza, and they’re also causing issues with Lebanon and Iran. (35:36) Then you look at a map and you look at, hmm, all right, like Israel’s here and then go (35:42) like over here, like, oh, there’s Iran.(35:45) And oh, a couple of countries above Iran is Russia. (35:48) Hmm. (35:49) Oh, and then back down here to Iran.(35:51) Over here is Afghanistan. (35:52) Over here is Iraq. (35:54) Hmm.(35:54) Like, it just like, you know, saying a picture tells a thousand words. (36:01) When you start looking at the size of these countries and their proximity to each other, (36:07) man, it just starts to go, huh, OK. (36:10) I mean, they definitely don’t have interests in Iran because of other considerations (36:16) for their imperial goals elsewhere, farther north.(36:22) It’s like we were in Iraq and Afghanistan and it bookmarked or bookends Iran. (36:27) It’s like, gee, what’s our ultimate goal there? (36:30) Right. (36:30) What are we doing? (36:32) Exactly.(36:33) I’m hoping that I can have a computer hooked up so we can pull up some maps during the time, (36:38) because like I was reading into like, I don’t want to get too ahead, but obviously the Bosnia (36:42) stuff and all the map, just the map area for that whole stuff is going to be pretty important, (36:46) I think, because we can get caught up a little bit in the weeds. (36:49) I had a buddy who went to Bosnia. (36:52) He was no way.(36:53) Yeah, he had to go there. (36:54) That was his first deployment. (36:57) Yeah, it was wild.(36:59) It was wild, man. (37:00) What was that? (37:03) Can you share any stories? (37:05) No, no, you know, we don’t talk about that much too much. (37:07) You know, I don’t like to bring that stuff up.(37:09) You know, that’s not a good time for a lot of those guys. (37:12) But if you ever want to talk about it, that’s fine. (37:14) But I just it’s one of those don’t ask, don’t tell type things.(37:17) But, you know, what I’m going to tease the book a little bit, because I feel like I need to, (37:23) because I get some serious smoke when I say this every time. (37:26) But it needs to be said, Vladimir Putin has a legitimate beef. (37:34) He does.(37:35) And, you know, there’s there’s a reason why the book is called what it’s called. (37:39) You know, and to be quite frank, a lot of us know that (37:42) many warnings were given to leave them alone and stay away from them. (37:49) Yeah, you know, and I’d even go further outside of him having a beef (37:53) or having a legitimate beef.(37:55) We don’t have a frickin right to be over there in the first place. (37:58) Like it’s not our it should not be our business, (38:01) regardless of Lindsey Graham’s seven to two trillion dollars worth of minerals and oil. (38:08) You know, I just can’t.(38:10) I can’t. (38:10) I found a little picture. (38:12) Look, Russia, Ukraine, right down here, a couple of countries here in Iran.(38:19) So it’s like and then right here, I think that’s Iraq. (38:23) Right over here. (38:24) That’s Iraq.(38:24) And the other side’s Afghanistan. (38:26) That’s Afghanistan. (38:26) So it’s just like and then over here to Israel.(38:28) So it’s like, like, again, like, I’m not going to I’m not going to (38:33) presume to be able to read minds, although we can just as we go through the book, (38:37) we’ll just be able to read these people’s quotes because they’re stupid. (38:41) Just make sure you don’t go one inch east. (38:42) Just don’t go one inch east.(38:44) OK, we don’t want to do that. (38:47) None of that map. (38:49) No.(38:49) Well, I can’t I can’t find the original format. (38:54) Here we go, boys. (38:56) We have so much more we’re going to get into over these next eight to nine weeks.(39:01) I’m really looking forward to it. (39:02) And I’m glad that we were able to get together tonight and kind of (39:05) set things up, introduce each other, one another to our audiences. (39:09) And so, yeah, everyone keep a lookout on all of our channels, wherever you’re coming from.(39:15) You know, on X will definitely be. (39:17) Yeah. (39:17) First of all, go buy that book that Mark is holding up right there.(39:21) If you haven’t already. (39:23) I know that they’re not available on Scott’s site anymore, but they’re still available on Amazon. (39:28) Look up provoked.(39:29) You can get the Kindle version or you can get the paperback version and then. (39:36) And yeah, keep an eye open for our weekly streams starting next week on the 9th. (39:42) And for those of you in my audience or anywhere, if you’re interested in being part of the (39:48) book club that we’re going to be starting here, which will be like the first day that (39:53) the book club on LC eyes and is going to start will be on the 12th, which is going to be (39:58) like one book club’s ending and mine starting like an hour later after that.(40:03) So it’s funny. (40:04) Actually, the guy who is doing the other book clubs here in the audience, I see he’s trolling (40:08) me. (40:08) I’m not reading your comment, Cody.(40:10) Sorry. (40:12) But the but yeah, so if you’re interested in doing that, just keep an eye open. (40:17) We’ll be publishing that and registration will start for that on LC eyes website sometime, (40:23) probably the next day or two.(40:24) So I’ll be posting that on social media. (40:27) Boys, you got any closing thoughts here before we we head out? (40:32) I’m excited, man. (40:33) I just, I hope that, you know, people join us and check it out and get the book, you (40:38) know, follow along with us.(40:39) It’s, you know, it’s going to be cool. (40:41) There’s gonna be a lot of good information that comes out of there, you know, and especially (40:44) for people who aren’t familiar with, you know, what’s really going on over there. (40:49) It’s going to be very eye opening and we need more people to be opening their eyes to what’s (40:53) happening because most people just don’t know.(40:57) And so it’s up to us to try to help them out. (41:00) You know, and be decent messengers about it without like just going ape crap on X on (41:06) somebody for not knowing something. (41:09) Agreed.(41:10) It’s all about information transparency. (41:13) Yeah, absolutely. (41:14) I mean, Scott has done an amazing job of collecting everything.(41:19) The least any of us can do is read it and get familiar with it because it opens your (41:27) eyes and you start reading everything through a certain lens. (41:31) You start seeing where that what story they’re actually telling you from what story they’re (41:35) writing to you. (41:36) It’s kind of an interesting thing because like their blueprint is the same.(41:40) You just got to figure out where they’re trying to manipulate or what they’re trying to tell (41:43) you. (41:44) And then you’re like, oh, I know the real story by what they did tell you or didn’t (41:47) tell you, you know, kind of thing. (41:48) So let’s let’s do this.(41:50) It’s $30, guys. (41:52) I we all every so many people made a commitment. (41:54) It’s on the bestseller list.(41:55) It’s doing great. (41:56) And it’s deservedly so. (41:58) I’m looking forward to this with you.(42:00) And I’m so grateful you guys decided to do this with us. (42:03) So let’s let’s do this. (42:05) Yeah, of course.(42:06) And we’re going to be having different people from, you know, we’re still working out the (42:12) exactly who. (42:13) So I won’t like we don’t have anyone confirmed yet, but I know we will be getting each week. (42:18) We’re gonna have a different guest on the join the three of us.(42:20) So so that’ll be fun as well to hear different people chime in. (42:24) It’ll be all people who are familiar with this stuff as well, who are also foreign (42:28) foreign policy junkies like the three of us are. (42:31) So, yeah, I’m looking forward to it.(42:33) I think this is going to be a lot of fun. (42:35) And it’s even more importantly, that it’s it’s really important to be talking about (42:40) this, encouraging people to read this, encouraging people to make petitions for peace from a (42:45) place of knowledge and being able to debunk propaganda. (42:48) And I agree, we got to do it.(42:50) There’s a lot of people like put it this way. (42:53) There are some people at the top who absolutely deserve to get Scott Horton, right? (43:00) Like when Scott goes up against Bill Crystal or Scott goes up against Neil Ferguson and (43:06) Scott goes up against whoever that guy was a woman talking to and the woman’s Morgan (43:12) show, there is a woman like some of these people, like the higher ups who are really (43:18) providing cover for the regime. (43:20) Yeah, they kind of have it coming.(43:22) That was not always my approach, but I get when Scott’s just like, listen, sometimes (43:25) these people just need to be dragged. (43:27) But for the most part, there’s a lot of people out there who just they they don’t (43:31) know what they don’t know. (43:32) And it’s our job to try to to gently but firmly and boldly call out lies, call out (43:40) propaganda, point people to truth.(43:43) And so I’m excited to be part of that process with you brothers here. (43:47) And we’ll be back again next week at 730. (43:51) And we’ll be diving into the first.(43:54) I don’t have my notes in front of me. (43:56) It’s going to be 83 or 85 pages, something like that. (43:58) I’ll get it up here right now.(44:00) The first, yeah, pages one through 85. (44:07) And so it’s going to be exploring the origins of the United States post-Cold War foreign (44:12) policy, focusing on what they call the unipolar moment, the beginning of NATO expansion and (44:18) the early conflicts that happened like Bosnia under George H.W. Bush. (44:25) So, yeah, this could almost be it’s like each one of these weeks is going to be like (44:31) there could be a whole book on this.(44:33) And it’s an 80 page section of a of another book. (44:36) So but, you know, that’s the other thing that Scott told me, too. (44:39) It’s like this is a giant book report that should spur us on to then read all the other (44:44) books and sources he has in there.(44:46) So we’ll be kind of doing that as well as like not just talking about this book, but (44:50) talking about all the different citations that Scott brings to this. (44:53) So it’s going to be a lot. (44:54) It was hilarious because you guys you guys are like we started again.(44:58) You started over. (44:59) I’m like, I got to be like I got to be like a shark, man. (45:01) I got to keep going to the to the 85 pages.(45:04) I’ll come circle back around. (45:05) But if I don’t get to the 85, man, I’m not going to do it. (45:09) I’m like, I’m definitely making sure I get to the end before I come back around.(45:13) Like, I’m really excited about this is going to be a 365 week series. (45:17) And we’re doing three pages at a time. (45:20) Yeah, three pages is really like 30.(45:23) Oh, it’s crazy. (45:25) I mean, it’s so excited, guys. (45:26) Next week, next Monday.(45:27) Mondays be there. (45:30) Yeah, that’s right. (45:31) It’ll be sweet.(45:32) Yep. (45:33) Be there. (45:33) Make sure you’re subscribed wherever you’re watching YouTube X. (45:36) That way you’ll be notified.(45:37) And yeah, thank you, guys, for being here. (45:39) Thanks, everybody, for watching. (45:41) And we’ll talk to you next week.(45:43) Take care.