Lannette West (reality show contestant)

Mark welcomes Lannette West for a conversation. She shares her experience as a reality show contestant, as well has her life before & after.

Outro: ”Goodnight, Sweetheart, Goodnight” – This score is in public domain and may be freely downloaded, printed, and performed. The sound file may be downloaded for personal use. For more information see https://lincolnlibraries.org/polley-music-library/

Transcript:

(0:00) Hey everybody and welcome to another episode of Knocked Conscious. Today I had the pleasure of (0:05) speaking with Lynette West. It was a great conversation.Here it is. I hope you enjoy it. (0:10) Hi Lynette West.Welcome to Knocked Conscious. How are you doing today? (0:15) Hi, I’m doing very well. Thank you.How about yourself? (0:19) I’m doing great. Well, an associate of ours connected us this week. So I had heard that (0:25) you were on a show and you were on some reality show and I had actually watched the first couple (0:30) episodes of it.I’d love for you to share a little bit about that. Only because it wouldn’t be (0:37) something I would normally find myself watching all the time, but it’s something that was very (0:41) interesting to hear about. So I’d love for you to share some of that, but you’re obviously talking (0:47) with me because this is Knocked Conscious and you even mentioned something about having some kind (0:52) of feeling about how that kind of resonates with you.So I’d love for you to start at whatever (0:56) point you’d like to start at and we can just go tangents left and right and just go around the (1:01) run the gamut. Okay. Well, let me start with how I landed on this reality show.I am not a reality (1:10) person. I don’t watch it. I mean, I’ve seen maybe The Bachelor or The Bachelorette a couple times, (1:16) but I’m not necessarily a big fan.Sometimes I think it’s kind of painful to watch the people. (1:20) I think it’s kind of embarrassing, but you know, it is what it is. But I was approached (1:24) on Facebook by what they call a scout and she reached out and we had a conversation and I (1:31) had a son, or I still do have a son, but he was 25, 26.Thank you. I’m glad to hear that. (1:39) He’s probably going to be coming home from work here shortly.But she asked immediately if I had (1:45) a son. I said, yes. And it turns out that they were trying to field participants for Milf Manor (1:52) season one, which is where the mothers end up dating each other’s sons.And that’s, you know, (2:00) that’s just a little too much for me. Long story short, it didn’t work out. We didn’t, I guess, (2:04) make the cut or whatever.So I was like, yeah, okay, whatever. Didn’t think about it. And then (2:11) a year later, maybe a year and a couple months later, the casting director reached out to me (2:16) and said, hey, I’d love for you to audition again.This time it’s just you. It’s not you and your son. (2:22) I’m like, okay, well, that’s good.And I went through the process and got cast. (2:29) So it was an interesting process for sure. So I will admittedly say I did watch it.And this is, (2:35) this is technically was called Milf Manor two, correct? Is that correct? Season two, (2:39) not to be confused with season one. Right. Right.Right. And I, I, I didn’t watch season one yet. (2:44) I’m just riveted now.So no, so I watched, I watched the first and obviously they showed a (2:49) couple of the snippets of what the season is about to show and it showed you in some vulnerable (2:55) spots. So I’m assuming that you are looking to talk to people after having such an experience, (3:02) now that you have some kind of voice to reach out about whatever issue that would be. And I, (3:09) I know there’s some pieces we talked about, but I I’d love for you to share what, (3:14) what’s compelling you to kind of make this tour and talk about what, uh, what topics interest you.(3:20) Yeah. Well, thank you. Um, what was really interesting when the show started airing (3:25) and after that particular episode aired, which is episode nine, I made a very, um, dramatic (3:30) exit from the show, not to spoil it for anybody, but you just spoiled it for me, but thank you.(3:36) I’m sorry. It’s okay. It’s still worth a while.I look, I brought, I asked my girlfriend to watch (3:45) it with me. So I’m like, please, can we watch it together at least? So I don’t feel like I’m (3:48) just watching this alone. I’ll admit.Perfect. Perfect. So you had a less than stellar exit (3:57) from the season.Is that, is that what you’re. Yeah. I just, I got very emotional.Long story (4:01) short, the guy I liked turns out he was looking in other directions and like hooking up or flirting (4:07) with another woman. And I got a little pissed off because that’s not what he was telling me. (4:11) And so I felt played and it just brought back a lot of, um, feelings and emotions that I’ve (4:18) struggled with my entire life, you know, of feeling like I’m never enough.I’m not good enough. (4:22) I’m not pretty enough. I’m not smart enough.I’m not thin enough. I’m not successful enough. (4:27) And, um, I, I don’t even remember saying all that, but I did on the show, um, obviously cause it (4:34) aired, but the reaction that I got from folks after it aired was really touching, um, either on Instagram (4:41) or Facebook, um, there were a variety of ways people reached out to me and I really appreciated (4:48) them taking the time and making the effort because mostly they were like, are you okay? (4:52) And I’m like, yes, I’m fine.This was like nine months ago. So I’ve, you know, I’ve moved on, (4:57) you know, it was a little difficult. We’ll touch and go there, you know, right after, but, um, (5:02) I’ve had time.I can imagine how intense it is, right. When you’re talking about people, people (5:06) don’t understand this. You hear I’ve, I’ve, I’ve lost love Island.I watched, uh, you know, some (5:11) of those things, what they are, these are, they’re 24 hour straight periods. So it’s like when you (5:16) meet someone, you might meet them online for a little bit. You might message back and forth.(5:22) You might meet for a drink, might get an hour of the first time. Maybe if you’re interested, (5:27) maybe you’ll extend it, whatever. Maybe get a second date.Many times they don’t even get to (5:31) a second date, barely get through half a coffee, right. It just happens. So the time I can imagine (5:37) the concentration though, is if you do like somebody, how even more, how quicker you go (5:44) through the cycles of said relationship, especially with competition and these other factors.(5:51) Everything is amplified exponentially. Um, cause yeah, we literally were together 24, (5:57) seven other than when we were sleeping. Um, it was, you know, it was a very unique, (6:02) stressful experience, something unlike anything I had ever experienced.You know, you’re sleep (6:07) deprived, you know, you’re not really eating right. You’re drinking more than you normally drink. (6:12) Um, just the stress of the whole dynamics of not knowing what was going to happen at any moment.(6:18) And it was, it was, it was interesting and it was stressful. And by like day 12, (6:23) I was, I was kind of hitting my limit. And when that happened to me, I mean, that’s two weeks.(6:29) That’s two whole, like that’s really like two, you know, 10 days alone is pretty bad. I mean, (6:35) that’s two full work weeks at least. Right.So, wow. So, so you have this experience now. (6:42) Were you aware of, and I’m going to get a little deep cause this is what it’s about.This is about (6:47) us sharing who we are. This isn’t about any, there’s no judgment here. It’s whatever.I’m (6:51) happy to share all my whatever’s right. This is what we’re here for is to share this because (6:56) we want to show everyone how everyone else’s connect. Really.We all have similar challenges. (7:02) We don’t always know what they are. Right.So did you know you had these (7:08) less than ideal feelings about yourself going into this? (7:12) Yeah, that’s Oh, absolutely. That’s something I’ve been working on very intensely in therapy (7:20) the past few years because it completely deconstructed my life. (7:25) So let me ask you this.So if I may for you, so you go to therapy for a few years and then (7:29) you’re probably approached by this. Did you, did you happen to speak to your therapist about this (7:34) or what may have compelled you to actually make this step? Cause I can understand like (7:38) your first one, you had boundaries and you’re like, Ooh, my son and I together that it’s not (7:43) comfortable for me for this, but it doesn’t mean anything other than just that’s your comfort level. (7:49) So how did you go through the process of thinking that you could keep those things, (7:55) knowing that there’s competition, knowing that there’s going to be someone literally grabbing (7:59) everyone else as you’re approaching them? Right.Well, to be honest, I didn’t anticipate it (8:05) uncovering all of those raw emotions. Cause I kind of pride myself on being rather stoic (8:11) and professional and appropriate. I’m a little naive too.And I, you know, I talked to my therapist (8:17) about it. I talked to my family, my kids about it. They were all very encouraging.They’re like, (8:22) you know, mom do it. Like how many people have this opportunity? It’s not a lot, you know, (8:27) what the hell, what, what, what could happen? Right. And I, one of my philosophies in the way (8:31) that I don’t regret the things I do, because there is value in every experience, even the (8:36) bad or especially the bad ones.I regret the things I don’t do. And so I didn’t want it to (8:40) be a regret of what could have happened. What if, you know, and I was naive, I’ll be honest, (8:45) because I have not been successful in my dating life, obviously in my love life.And I thought (8:51) maybe this is the universe’s way of saying, Hey girl, we’re going to take care of you. (8:55) Do this. This was going to be my, my way to find my guy, either not on the show, perhaps, (9:00) but through the show.So I was hopeful, naive and hopeful. (9:05) Well, there’s, there’s nothing, I mean, naive. I mean, looking for love, isn’t really a naive (9:09) thing.I mean, but I can understand, you know, going through because that that’s where I would (9:13) have seen is like, I’m, I’m the same, exact same milk. You only regret things you don’t do (9:17) because you have whatevs. Now let’s not kid ourselves.Some mistakes are weighed a little (9:23) more than others. And we can look back at them and be like, Oh, that was probably not the best idea, (9:28) but you’re, you’re talking now. So you got through it, right? You’re, you’re on the other side.(9:33) So you went in, obviously doe eyed, wide eyed, not really understand this situation. (9:39) Had any of the other contestants or anyone else kind of, (9:43) I guess what is like, I, you and I, I think are very, within a couple of years of each other. (9:50) And I think our generation XR, right? We’re Gen X people.Very different. Like I was an early (9:56) adopter of dating apps, but only, only because I was a date, an early adopter, did I get on them? (10:02) I don’t think if I had had a wife and had another, you know, adult, pre-adult life and left that (10:09) life to be single again, that I would be on like dating apps would just be completely over my head. (10:14) So I, I, I’m lucky that I kind of leaned in as it was going.Right. But so you have all this (10:20) technology and all these, these interesting things and these, these things all play together. (10:26) So you now have these, you’re a single mother and you have these emotional pieces and are now (10:36) exacerbated because it’s like your, your show is like that.I would guess almost on a, on an (10:42) internet level at this point with the apps the way they are. I’m, I’m about six years removed now. (10:48) So it’s been that much of a jump, but I can only imagine how crazy, I remember how crazy it was (10:52) then.I can only imagine that, that how that just changes so much. So have, have you, how’s your (10:59) experiences in the relationship aspect coming out of that? Well, it, it kind of jarred me to the (11:08) extent that I was like, I’m clearly not ready to be out here doing this. Like I’m, I’m still healing.(11:15) To answer the question earlier about, you know, why would I do this? I was honestly at that point (11:21) in the best place and in the best shape emotionally in my life. And that’s a sad (11:29) commentary on the state of the rest of my life. But I really felt very confident about my ability (11:37) to navigate, you know, whatever it was that was coming my way.And I think it’s worth pointing (11:42) out. We did not know it was Milk Manor until we were sequestered in the hotel in Toronto (11:49) two days before filming started. And I panicked.Those tricky little people. They came in, (11:58) they’re like, don’t you want to know what show you’re on? I’m like, what do you, what do you (12:00) mean? I’m on Northern Love, this dating show. And they’re like, no, no, it’s Milk Manor season two.(12:05) And I was like, Milk Manor. I was like, oh my God, is that the show? And then I started putting, (12:10) you know, pieces together. I was like, I can’t do this.I’m going to get fired. Like I have (12:15) customers. I have managers.I have coworkers. I have, you know, I can’t do my kids. Oh my God, (12:21) they’re going to die.And that was my initial reaction. And they did a very good job of kind (12:27) of talking me off the ledge. And to be honest, I think I felt like at that point I had invested so (12:33) much time, energy and effort.I was like, I’m here. Screw it. Let’s just do it.So I did. (12:40) Great. I mean, it’s bold.I admire it. I mean, I just imagine like taking that step because (12:48) I am not one that someone would approach for one of these shows. I guarantee it.So it’s not like, (12:54) it’s not like someone’s going, hey, you want to be on this thing? And I’d be like, yeah, (12:57) I’m sure you really want me on it. But so it’s really interesting because I did focus. Like I (13:04) said, I watched the first two episodes.I very much focused on you because I knew we were going (13:07) to speak. And I did find you to be like, to your point, you were, you were more professional. I (13:15) don’t want to say reserve, but you were kind of not in the main shots.Obviously we had the person. (13:22) There’s a, there’s a woman on your show. I will not say her name, but I will call her Ted Bundy.(13:27) And the reason I call her Ted Bundy is because if you look at pictures of Ted Bundy and you’ll (13:32) understand this, when I say this, she looks different in every single shot when you see her (13:38) on television. So you’re like, Ooh, and they’re like, Ooh, Hmm. And you, when you see that, (13:47) that’s like different personalities showing their face when they show.Cause I’ve seen it. (13:52) It’s like this weird thing. And I’m not going to call people out on any kind of things.I’m not (13:56) going to call the person’s name out, but you probably know exactly what I’m talking about. (13:59) But, um, seems like a lovely person. Sure.We all have our stuff, but, but how, how is that (14:06) navigating personalities like that? Because you, you were, like I said, Gen X, I think you were (14:14) what professional sales or some kind of, it was a business analyst or something into that respect. (14:21) I’m in data storage. Yeah.Excellent. Okay. So yeah, I’ve got a lot of, (14:29) I don’t have much storage.I have to get one of those storage units. So (14:31) so obviously you had this professional, either professional life, you didn’t come from the (14:38) entertainment world, like some people or some other things, or you didn’t see you didn’t, I (14:42) would, I would guess that you didn’t seek this. So, so it did actually stick out a little when (14:50) you’re looking specifically because of what I knew what I was looking for only that you were, (14:55) it was, you weren’t that typical contestant that one would do.So how, how did, or how did (15:03) that process work for you? Or how was that process in weaning out that personality type? (15:09) Yeah. I mean, the dynamics were overwhelming at best, and I do pride myself on being able to (15:16) navigate different types of people. I get along with everyone.I’m, I’m kind of a chameleon in (15:22) that respect. I morph and change into whatever situation or personality I need to have at that (15:29) time to be safe. And so this is a skill I’ve learned since I was very, very young.So I didn’t (15:35) think I was going to have a lot of problems with it, but I didn’t understand the scope of what I (15:40) was going to be dealing with. And it was it was a lot, it was a lot. And I ended up being very close (15:49) with one of the other participants and that shortly thereafter went south.(15:58) And I’ve been called. I bet you it’s the person I’m talking about. Yeah, it is.I have a. Oh, (16:04) it’s funny that you know who I’m talking about because I literally didn’t mention the person. (16:08) Yeah. Anyway.So really. So that did go south because I, okay. So now that we’re saying that (16:13) I’m not, this isn’t to dish or spill the tea.I’m not one of those people. It is what it is. (16:17) But I saw you in interviews with her.Is that correct? Was that the one you were talking about? (16:23) So yeah, we were great. We were, we loved her to death. Absolutely.(16:27) You, you left the show, seemed to have some things together. Is, did someone approach her (16:32) with something bigger and she stepped away or what will cause this rift between the two of you? (16:38) And I don’t want to get too biopsy personal, obviously, but something. (16:43) I wouldn’t say anything defaming or insulting.I will stick to the facts because you can’t sue (16:50) somebody for that. You know, if it’s the truth, it’s not defaming. So it was really something (16:58) very innocent.I thought she had was engaging in some behavior online that was really like (17:05) animated. And I just really saw it as over the top, even for her. And I was concerned about (17:10) her mental health.I was concerned that maybe she was going through something and I didn’t want it (17:15) to be put on display for everyone to see. And I reached out to her as a friend and I told her, (17:22) I texted it to her so I could be very clear in what I was saying. And I prefaced it all by saying, (17:28) look, if I wouldn’t come to you with this, then I wouldn’t be the kind of friend you need.(17:34) You know, like I I’m really coming from a good place with this, you know, take it for what it is. (17:40) If you don’t agree. Oscar Wilde said it best.The true friend stabs you in the front. (17:44) I mean, it’s it. I know that sounds that sounds really awful, but like that is so factually true (17:49) is that a really true friend can tell you to your face that you are acting out of hand, that you’re (17:57) wrong.Absolutely. And I was generally concerned because, you know, I didn’t want to see anything (18:03) bad happen to her and I didn’t want it to happen on a very public platform because she has a lot (18:08) of followers and there was a lot of, you know, publicity going on at the time and there was a (18:14) lot of Reddit threads and people commenting and saying less than flattering things about her. (18:19) And, you know, that hurt me.And so I sent her this big long text and I remember how soon she (18:27) got back to me. But when she came back to me, it wasn’t what I expected. I think she felt attacked (18:33) and she felt judged.And I had tried really hard not to convey those sentiments because that’s not (18:40) I don’t judge anybody like I judge myself partially. I don’t judge other people. I give (18:45) them the benefit of the doubt.Don’t do that for myself, but I’ll do that for others. So she (18:50) if I were to say she she certainly just did it to her. I mean, it’s all self-deprecating.You saw (18:56) it. You saw it was self-fulfilling from the first minute. Step on.So once again, like I said, (19:02) you don’t need to talk about who it is and whatever, but I’m glad you got through that. (19:06) OK, I’m sorry. Whatever that was.Did her devolution start after the show? I mean, (19:12) what was it? Was it like a single event or was it she got more and more famous and then that’s (19:16) what did it like? What do you think? What would you attribute some of the you know, we we it’s (19:23) hard to hold it together forever. Right. I mean, and I can the weight of trying to be a thing and (19:29) put on a face or put on a who you are as you’re seen, you know, versus who you actually are, (19:37) who you feel like just because you have to get that click or that follow or whatever.(19:41) So when when would you say that really started for her? I think it started on the show. It really (19:48) did. And it just kind of escalated.And it was like a perfect storm of things, really, in my (19:55) opinion. And, you know, there were there were good times, but there were bad times. And I think the (20:01) bad stuff just maybe accumulated too much for all of us, really.I can see that. And she’s a very (20:08) sensitive person. And it it really, you know, obviously affected her perhaps more than it (20:13) affected some of the rest of us.But she’s dynamic. I will say that. So absolutely.And it’s different (20:21) doing a reality show because you’re not an actress or an actor. So people can’t critique (20:25) your acting skills because when they critique you on a reality show, they’re critiquing you. (20:31) You know what I mean? That’s right.Oh, OK. They just don’t like me. I can’t say I just and that (20:36) might be part of your naivete.I don’t want to call you out on that. But a lot of people (20:39) create a persona going into one of those shows. See, I don’t even think about it.Right. It’s (20:46) interesting. Yeah.Like like the wrestler, the Miz guys, like I’m the Miz. I’m going to be on WWE. (20:51) He was on like the real the real world or something.And you’re like, OK, I guess, you know, (20:56) and then he does it. You’re like, OK, I guess that’s what. Look, and that’s great.Like that’s (21:00) the persona you want to do. And well, I’m glad everyone’s OK. So did you form any other friendships (21:06) with any of the other women? Yeah, on the show.Yeah. Interestingly enough, I was friends with (21:12) one of the other participants for the show. I actually am the one that sent her to the casting (21:16) director for her.And then she ended up getting cast in, which I thought was kind of funny. (21:21) And we we don’t keep in touch. It’s interesting.I have a feeling I know which one that one is (21:25) because I’ve I have a feeling I know, but I’m not I don’t like I said, I don’t know. I don’t know (21:32) what that was. Now.OK, watch. Like I said, I watched it. There were six of you on this.(21:36) Did they add any more or was it just the 10, the five and then five fathers? Is that how it was? (21:42) The rest of the show? It was six women. Then the five guys, the five young guys, (21:47) right. They won.And then their fathers, the five showed up. Right. And that’s when I saw.(21:53) Yeah. And that’s what I watched. Yeah.Yeah. OK. And then more women.And that’s what. (22:02) There’s the wrench. Oh, yeah.They know how to they know how to throw the variants in. They know (22:08) exactly when to. It’s so crazy.It’s like it’s interesting how the psychology kind of goes (22:14) through that cycle and how they can time it by how long you spent. It’s it’s really interesting. (22:18) They have personality tests.Let me ask you this, because now you now you kind of seen the veil (22:23) pulled back. Right. You’ve seen a little bit how the sausage is made.Do you think they (22:29) have a clue of who’s going to match up just from the personalities that they have? Because they do (22:33) that a lot of that personality matching, I would assume prior to. (22:37) They may make an educated guess, but I think part of the fun is just seeing how it plays out. (22:42) You know, and the producers are there real time.I mean, they’re behind the scenes, (22:46) obviously, but and they don’t they don’t tell you what to say or anything like that. But, (22:51) you know, I did get the feel that they’re kind of orchestrating some storylines like, (22:56) you know, hey, what’s Anthony doing over there? You know, go see what Anthony’s getting into (23:00) that kind of thing. I mean, he didn’t do it a lot, but, you know, little subtle things like that (23:06) happened.But for the most part, at least from my perspective, (23:10) like everything I did and said was me. Yeah, I did. I wasn’t acting.I wasn’t faking it. I was (23:16) just I mean, I don’t know how to be anybody else but me. I have a hard enough time being me.(23:22) Seriously, you have to be yourself. Everyone else is taken, right? (23:26) Exactly. I like that one.I’m surprised. Like I said, the Gen Xers, we’ve got the best. We’ve (23:33) got the best phrases, you know, drinking from the water hose, being left alone, (23:37) riding our bikes until 10 o’clock at night.We had to get yelled at to get in the house. (23:42) Remember that? Oh, my God. I don’t.I hardly remember being inside a house. (23:48) Like I was always like in the woods with my dogs and riding motorcycles and bicycles and (23:54) going to the pool. Like, I don’t even remember being inside that much.I assume I was. I slept (23:59) inside. I ate inside.So you now have two lives. You have data storage and celebrity. (24:09) And now you get to, well, known personality.How about that? (24:14) That’s fair. Recognized personality. How about, does that work for you? (24:18) So I would assume you’re on a podcast with me.You have no idea who I am. You saw Knocked (24:24) Conscious. It’s weird, but you’re obviously talking to people for a reason.So you are (24:32) done with this reality show stuff. What is compelling you to make these rounds and talk (24:38) to people like myself about, you know, what’s compelling you to have our conversation right now? (24:44) Well, going back to what I was saying earlier about people reaching out to me and they were (24:48) genuinely worried about me and concerned. But what I also heard was, oh, my God, that’s me.(24:53) Oh, my God. You and I are the same person. Like, I feel the same exact way.My picker is (24:58) broken too. I never think I’m enough either. I have all this internal doubt and all this (25:04) negative self-talk.And I’m like, you mean I’m not the only one? Like there are other people, (25:11) suffering from this kind of thing. And I mean, I kind of knew that I wasn’t the only one, but to (25:16) have real people reach out to me in such a way was very moving. And it just got me to think, (25:22) you know, I’ve suffered a lot in my life.And I know you can’t tell by looking at me. Everybody’s (25:29) like, oh, you’ve had a great life. You’ve had an easy life.Oh, nothing could be farther. (25:33) Oh, I can see in the mask. Don’t get me wrong.The mask is there. I get it. (25:36) Absolutely.Absolutely. Absolutely. (25:40) Yeah.Yeah. Yeah. I get it.(25:42) Yeah. So I thought, you know, there’s got to be a reason behind it. And maybe the reason (25:47) and the purpose behind the suffering is nothing too crazy or grandiose.Maybe it’s simply, (25:53) I’ve got the courage and probably the stupidity sometimes to go out and just say it and talk (25:59) about it and not be ashamed of it, you know, in a way to kind of- (26:04) You’re naive just enough. (26:06) Right. And I do have a voice and I’m not afraid to use it.And it really gave me hope and motivation (26:14) to think if I could just get out here and talk about it and somebody could hear these stories (26:19) and say, wow, she dealt with that and she overcame that, it would give people hope. (26:26) Because I’ve been without hope. I know what that feels like.And if I were to help somebody in any (26:32) small way, that would help me rationalize and understand why I’ve been through what I’ve been (26:38) through. Do you know what I’m saying? It gives it purpose and meaning because I think as human (26:42) beings we need that. We need that.So you’re taking your suffering and trying to mold it into (26:49) some kind of purposeful way to send a message. Absolutely. Of hope and resilience.Because (26:55) I was talking about this with someone the other day and I was like, I’m not trying to frame myself (26:59) as, oh, I’m so successful. Look at me. I overcame everything because I’m still a work in progress.(27:05) But I mean, by most standards, I’ve turned out fairly well. I have a beautiful home. I got a (27:09) nice car.I got a great job. I got good friends. My kids are not in jail.It’s like things have (27:16) turned out for me pretty well, all things considered. It should not have turned out this (27:21) well. It should not.There’s no rational reason for why, frankly, I’m even sitting here today. (27:27) So it’s that need to understand the purpose and the reason. Because like I said, I mean, (27:36) my poor guardian angels are exhausted.They are on strike at this point because I have put myself (27:42) in so many different positions that there’s no rational explanation for what’s here, to be honest. (27:51) So let me ask on that front. I’m going to try to ask this in a way.(27:57) I just ask questions as they come. So it’s probably just very stream of conscious. But (28:03) when have you patted yourself on the back for all the things you’ve overcome? (28:09) Never.It was only a couple of years ago that I… (28:14) Acknowledged at least. So like you never acknowledge any of the pushing through. (28:18) So I’m just curious because it does speak to the psychology of how you view yourself, right? (28:23) Like in that way.So if you could expound on that, I’d love to hear about that. (28:28) Yeah. I mean, I can look at it pragmatically and analytically and say, yes, I got a college (28:33) degree.Check. That’s a success. But from a feeling standpoint, do I feel like I deserve (28:41) any kind of cheering or, woo, good job? No, I don’t.Because I feel like I haven’t done it well (28:48) enough. I didn’t live up to my potential. I didn’t become who I was supposed to be.(28:53) You know what I mean? Not because of what I know, but other people. Exactly. Not just, (28:59) and I’m really big about not being a victim because I’ve never said why me.(29:03) No, this isn’t about victimhood. It’s actually about self. It’s about self-love actually.(29:08) See, that’s been very elusive for me. Very elusive. (29:11) Do you watch any podcasts or do you listen to any podcasts at all? (29:15) A few.(29:17) Inspirational or anything? Any mental health podcast or anything? (29:21) No. To be honest, I mean, there are a few people like Bernie Brown and I’ve got books and whatnot. (29:26) But no, if you have a suggestion, I’m all ears.Oh, certainly. We’ll talk offline. But what’s (29:31) interesting is there’s one, there’s a gentleman named Dr. K, and he’s a gamer and he’s online.(29:36) He’s a social influencer. I think he’s of Indian descent. I listen to podcasts all day.I’ll (29:45) listen to three at a time. And then if I’ll filter it, if I hear something, I’ll stop the other two (29:50) and just listen to that. I’m psychotic.Yeah, I’m crazy. So- (29:53) You’re ADHD. (29:54) Listen to this guy and it’s like, you know how you hear the truth.You hear the truth and it just (29:59) hits you in that way and you just become completely overcome with emotion. Now- (30:04) Oh, absolutely. (30:05) I hope this isn’t you, but this happened to me.It was with this gentleman. He’s talking to a (30:09) gentleman named Chris Williamson on Modern Wisdom. And I’ll share that link with you.It’s a really (30:14) good podcast for, I think someone who’s seeking the way you are, these are good people to listen (30:18) to and kind of take in. But he said, there are people that he works with in a clinical office, (30:24) and I’ve worked on myself as well, but I’ve never had this feeling the way he explained it. And it’s (30:29) so unfortunately perfect.He said, there are people who have psychotic mental delusions. (30:38) They’re not psychotic, but they have delusions with the devil sitting on their shoulder, (30:41) telling them they’re a piece of crap all day long. And I heard that.And for me, it literally, (30:50) it was like waterworks without crying. It just struck so strongly. And it’s interesting because (30:59) I actually can say I loathe myself, but most people who loathe themselves are incapable of love.(31:06) Now, I do think that I’m incapable of love in the way that one would do it. However, (31:14) because of the work I’ve done, I focus so much on the process of love, of how to show love, (31:22) because it’s the only way I can, it’s like I have to find a way to show it, (31:26) because like, it’s different the way it feels inside. (31:31) You can’t go by your gut reaction and your intuition, because all of that’s been fucked up.(31:36) Yeah. Yeah. It’s really interesting, right? No, no, no.I’m surprised you haven’t cursed yet, (31:42) and feel free to let them fly. I cast like a sailor. Yeah, I totally, (31:50) that resonates, absolutely, for sure.I feel the same way. I know that I’m capable of love (31:57) in the context of my children, but I think that is very innate for evolutionary reasons (32:03) and survival of the species, that those maternal instincts kicked in, and they kicked in very, (32:09) very hard for me, probably because I’m too attached to my kids. I mean, I love them too much, (32:16) you know, because it’s kind of making up for everything.You know, our Gen Xers, that’s what (32:21) it was, though. It was, our generation did kind of latch on, because we were a little bit, (32:27) we were a little ignored. Completely ignored.It’s so weird, that weird cycle of how it just (32:32) runs that sine, cosine wave of up and down. It’s a pendulum swinging from one extreme. (32:39) And it really is.Yeah, we always govern through an ideology. We never like, we always govern (32:44) through the middle to these extremes. We never kind of stay like in this area.Yeah, yeah. (32:49) Agreed. Agreed.(32:51) Well, so you found this beautiful support coming out of this. Obviously, the experience as a whole, (32:58) I’m sure you look back, you reflect on it and say, you’re glad you did the experience. (33:03) Looking back on that little portion that ended it, yeah, that’s extreme and concentrated, (33:08) but it probably was such a minute part when you really think of the seven, you know, (33:13) three and a half billion other men that are out there and all the other things that are going on.(33:17) So, you come out of this, are you speaking on behalf of any kind of mental health groups or (33:23) programs, or do you do any kind of speaking on your behalf, or? (33:26) I haven’t. I would love to. I mean, this is all very new for me.I’m (33:32) very, in the very beginning stages, because I’ve had these ideas and these almost compulsions, (33:38) but I’ve just never really known how to go out and make it happen. Like it’s, you know, (33:43) I’ve written it down, I’ve thought about it, but I haven’t really taken action. And to some extent, (33:49) I want to say I’ve been almost paralyzed.And I think part of that is I’m afraid of failure. (33:55) So a lot of times that holds me back. But I’m also very stubborn.And I’m very goal oriented. (34:03) And my whole existence was achievement based love. So I’m very much an overachiever, (34:11) because I’ve got to prove my worth in order to win some kind of magical love from somebody.(34:16) So those things are kind of in conflict right now. And I’m struggling. And I was literally (34:23) just checking my DMS when our friend, our mutual acquaintance reached out and was like, (34:28) Hey, you got a book or something? And I’m like, a book or what is that? I’ve never even heard of (34:33) that.But he was, you know, he was willing to sort of educate me on some of these avenues for (34:42) discussions to see if it’s something I could do. I mean, it’s definitely something I want to do. (34:47) But can I do it? And I need some polishing.I’m not really clear on exactly what my message is, (34:54) because I have so much. Do you know what I mean? Oh, I know what you mean. I’ve been doing this (35:00) for four years.So if you want to talk paralysis, I spent two years building a studio before I even (35:09) hit record for the first time. Really? What do you think? I built panels, I was stalling, (35:15) I was stalling, totally stalling. Why? Why? Why do you think you were stalling? (35:20) Now you say success.And I don’t, I started chuckling when you said that, because I don’t (35:24) believe you. I think, I think you’re, you’re not afraid of failure. I don’t, I think you’re (35:27) afraid of success.You don’t love yourself. I mean, that’s really what it really comes down. (35:33) I know it’s, it’s a weird backwards thing that took me forever to figure out, but it’s like, (35:39) that’s part of it is that you, your self-worth is not there.So you actually are afraid of succeeding. (35:45) Because I don’t think I deserve it. So there’s part of that.There’s certainly, (35:50) we all have a fear of failure, but remember what’s really holding people back from something (35:56) is a little bit more than just the standard fear. There’s a something else inside that. (36:01) Right.So without, without picking at the scat, how deep would you say you’ve gone into your (36:08) child? Would you say it was a childhood things that helped or partially sculpted how you perceive (36:16) the world? Or would you say it was an event or, or how, how would you say you got to where you feel (36:22) the way you feel? Well, it was the PTSD. So it was not just one event. It was multiple events and it (36:32) was, I mean, it’s, it’s a tragedy.It changed who I was supposed to be. I have pictures of me as (36:39) like when I was younger in kindergarten, I’ve got like my Montessori school picture of, to kind of (36:45) remind me of who that girl was and hopes that maybe I can recapture some of that. But yeah, (36:51) unfortunately people have been in my life and come into my life and altered the course of my life, (36:58) or I’ve allowed them to.Sometimes I didn’t have much of a choice or any say in it because I was (37:03) too young to. Well, as a child. Yeah.As a child, you know, you can only push back so much, right? (37:12) As a child, as an adult, as an adult, we, yeah, it’s different. It just is different, you know? (37:20) And well, I am sorry for what, whatever those things that you did experience, but you know, (37:25) they did, they did build that resilience in you and I can, I see that push pull in you. It’s like (37:30) you are absolutely driven and you’re like, God, don’t get too far ahead of yourself.You’re, you (37:37) suck. Don’t, don’t expose yourself too much because you’re going to find out what, you know, it’s like, (37:43) I get it. So imposter syndrome at work.I think I’m always one email away from getting fired. (37:48) Yeah. Yeah.Imposter syndrome is such a big thing. So, so are there any specific, (37:55) no, so yeah. Are there any specific pieces that you’re working on in your journey, (38:01) in your mental health journey now that you have just started to incorporate or anything, (38:06) you know, whether it’s medicinal or psychological or just talking or, or any kind of groups or (38:11) anything? Well, I’m, I’m really big into better living through chemistry.So I’ve done several (38:18) rounds of ketamine that I found that to be incredibly helpful. And I apologize for the (38:23) siren that’s going on. Do you want me to close that or should we just wait for it? (38:29) That’s part of, that’s part of the atmosphere.I love it. Let’s do it. (38:32) I can barely hear you.I think we’re good. Yeah, it’s great. Who cares? It’s great.(38:37) I’ve got a porch off my room. And so I leave the door open. It’s beautiful.We look, I live in (38:44) Arizona. I opened the window for the first time last night. First time all year.Well, maybe, (38:51) maybe since February or March, but like, it’s been a long time since we opened the window. So. (38:55) Yeah.Well, good. I’m glad it’s okay. So ketamine, you, you mentioned a little bit about ketamine (39:00) and sirens.So you’re on a ketamine trip and all of a sudden sirens go off and telling you that (39:04) obviously did the right thing. Absolutely. I’m a big proponent and advocate for ketamine.I think (39:10) people should check it out. Obviously within the confines of a psychiatrist’s office, which is (39:15) where I did it, I wouldn’t suggest it. I can’t imagine doing that off the street.Like it’s, (39:21) cause it, it’s, I don’t know if you’ve heard about it or even interested in it, but it’s, (39:25) it’s familiar. Matthew Perry died from a ketamine overdose. So, and I don’t know if you’re familiar (39:32) with what he said, but allegedly, I allegedly, the person who gave him the dose, his assistant (39:39) said to him, shoot, make it a good one or something.Like, so he gave him a little extra, (39:44) I think even he like admitted it. So, you know, it’s, it’s a heartbreak cause he, he had, (39:51) he had addiction problems and it’s so crazy. I would watch Matthew Perry (39:56) after friends.And he, he do it. He’d have like a season on a show. (40:00) He did like three shows where he was the star for a season.And I’m like, (40:04) but he’s good. What, what, why, or, you know, good, good for who he is. Right.Like he’s certainly (40:10) competent enough to be on television. And you sit there, I’m like, what’s wrong that he’s not, (40:16) are they not getting ratings? And then you hear behind the scenes of all the tragedy and stuff (40:21) and the demons that he had. And it’s like, wow, you don’t know anything about that.(40:27) Yeah. I’m an active recovery too. So just in the sphere of transparency, I, (40:33) is it alcohol? No, thanks.And I’m very grateful for that. Let me just tell you, my cocaine, (40:42) it was the stimulant. I’m an upper kind of gal.How long have you been, I guess, (40:48) clean off stimulants? I guess would be, well, I do take Adderall and Vyvanse or Vyvanse for ADHD, (40:55) but I’ve been cocaine free for two years as of October 23rd. So that’s huge. Huge.(41:03) Yeah. That’s great. That’s good.How much would you say that took a control of your life? Like (41:07) what’s the biggest percentage of your life that it took hold of? (41:12) Oh, it ran all my life. I mean, it was, it was everything. It was everything.(41:16) So it literally was like that commercial. Remember that commercial in the eighties, (41:19) I work longer hours so I can make money so I can do more coke so I can work longer hours. (41:23) Was it, is it literally that commercial? Yeah.My entire day, if I wasn’t doing coke, (41:28) I was thinking about how I was going to go get it. (41:32) And then this is with your also other things that you’re going through your head, (41:36) your interpersonal really like, my God, the pressure of that must be just, (41:41) how long, how long would you say you had that addiction problem? (41:45) Well, it ramped up. I experimented in college with it and then I got pregnant with my son and (41:52) all of that stuff came to a screeching halt and I had no involvement with drugs or anything like (41:58) that for like 25 years.And I happened upon a party and there was some there and I got (42:03) reintroduced to a good old friend of mine. So at first, you know, it’s, it’s fun. We do it (42:08) on the weekends, nothing big, you know, just a little bit here, a little bit there.(42:13) And then it’s so seductive because you don’t know when it transitions from you being in control (42:20) to it being in control. Cause it tricks you into thinking you’re still in control. (42:25) Because it makes you think like, yeah, I’m good.I just need a bump or I just need the net. Yeah. (42:31) Yeah.I would be cutting up eight balls. I was buying multiple eight balls at a time and (42:34) but the bumps get bigger and they get fewer and fewer in between. Right.Like it’s like, (42:39) you think you’re in control, but they, yeah. Yeah. I would ask people, do you think I have (42:43) a problem? Like, do you think, do you think maybe I should stop? Do you think I have a problem? (42:47) And the thing is, if you’re asking yourself or other people, if you have a problem, (42:52) the answer is categorically and emphatically, yes, you have a problem.And I was in that stage (42:58) for about a year, for about a good year. How did you get through a full year without going, (43:04) tipping one way or the other? How did, how did you manage that year? That must’ve been (43:07) hell because you usually break, right? You hit your rock bottom or you just kind of tilt the (43:15) other way. Right.Right. Hard to dance that razor’s edge for that long. Well, it’s really (43:21) crazy because I think my lowest point probably could be somebody’s highest point.I didn’t lose (43:27) my job. I didn’t lose custody of my daughter. I didn’t die.You and I are so similar. (43:32) You know, that’s why I was talking about those guardian angels. They’re fucking exhausted (43:37) because they worked overtime.When I turned 40, it’s the same thing. It was like, (43:44) I just had this inkling. I’m like, I don’t feel right about being here.(43:50) Something’s going to change. No ideations, nothing to that level. (43:55) But it was just that, to your point, like, it’s interesting because I have a feeling that (44:01) I think trauma is a universal thing.I think levels have certain things. Like, (44:06) I hate to say like level up and it sounds awful, but it has some, it’s a little bit everything. (44:11) It’s how we handle the trauma is our biological component, our genetics, but it’s also the level (44:16) of trauma that’s exposed.So it’s like, if some wimp gets a low level of trauma, that could really (44:21) be bad. Whereas something really tough could handle high levels of trauma. So it’s like, (44:27) it could be almost like you might’ve had a high threshold and had a lot of trauma.(44:32) I might’ve had a low threshold and not had as much, but it affected the same way or something. (44:37) I’m not saying that’s the case per se. And it’s not judging one better, greater than the other.(44:41) It’s kind of realizing that we all have this, but it’s interesting because I feel like you and I, (44:48) like some people are at this level of the trauma where it affects them in this life. And this is (44:52) how they are within that you and I like leveled up to this weird portion. And we’re not even the, (45:00) we’re not even next, like we’re two, three levels from the bottom.We’re not even near that top (45:05) echelon of absolute trauma, like crazy trauma. Right. So you and I are sitting here both hit (45:12) rock bottom.Not a single part of our life was affected, right? It’s like, it’s so interesting, (45:19) but we’ve leveled up because how we view ourselves in such a negative way creates that extra like (45:27) drive for us to not do that to ourselves. It’s like, it’s so weird. Like if we had confidence (45:33) in ourselves, I think it would take, it would control us.Like we would get sucked into it, (45:36) but because of our, the way we perceive the world, because of what we went, whatever it is, (45:41) we experienced, we are rock bottoms aren’t at the bottom, but like we address it quickly and, (45:48) and, and like kind of hit it hard. So it’s an interesting thing, but we don’t perceive (45:52) ourselves the way other people perceive themselves. Oh, not at all.Like I, I often tell people, (45:57) I wish, don’t you wish that you could see yourself the way other people see you without, (46:03) because my filters, they’re tough. You know, I would, I would give anything to step outside (46:10) myself and see me the way other people see me and, and, and understand that and be able to (46:16) appreciate that. You know, that’s tough.Yeah, for sure. So are there any messages, anything, (46:22) any, anything you’d like to share with the, with the public of, of America and the world (46:27) with your experiences? Well, I think one reoccurring theme in my life has just been, (46:36) just don’t give up. You know, I mean, there have been times I’ve been very close to getting up, (46:40) like very, very close.But for, usually it was my children, because I could never come to terms with (46:47) the idea of leaving them in this evil world alone without me. I thought a damaged me was better than (46:54) a no me, you know? But I guess I would just say, if people were struggling with that, without (47:01) having any hope, thinking it’s ever going to get better, you have to stop and take a step back. (47:05) And remember, this is a temporary feeling.It feels like it’s forever. It feels like it’s (47:10) permanent. It feels like it’s never going to get better, but it will.It’s kind of like when you’re (47:14) drunk, like you don’t think you’re going to be drunk forever. You know, eventually you’re going (47:20) to sober up. And I think we need to have more of that perspective when it comes to like some mental (47:25) health issues that obviously you’ve got to have some treatment.I mean, you’ve got to make an (47:29) effort. There’s got to be things that happen, but it is a temporary state and you can get the help (47:36) that you need from the people you love. I mean, I couldn’t do it without, you know, my psychiatrist (47:41) and my addiction therapist and, you know, my family.I wouldn’t be here. I didn’t do it all on (47:47) my own. You know what I mean? I knew when I got to that point, I knew I needed help.Like this was (47:53) beyond the scope of whatnet. And that was a very humbling experience because I’ve never asked (47:57) anybody for anything. Like, I don’t even ask people to like, it’s hard for me to call it the (48:02) plumber.I’m like YouTubing stuff to figure out how to do it myself. Like that ultra independence, (48:08) never asking anybody for anything. And then there I was, I was asking these people I didn’t even (48:12) know to save my life.That sucked. But I guess my message there is just don’t give up. (48:22) There’s a way through it.Your brain is tricking you. Don’t listen to it. (48:26) Yeah.Well, I mean, there’s a really good way to analogize it. Like if you look, you’re like (48:31) that millionaire on the street probably wasn’t a millionaire the whole time, probably scrimped (48:37) and saved to go to college and then did something and then invented something. And the guy that’s (48:42) homeless probably didn’t start homeless, probably had something and had some challenges that they (48:49) weren’t able to overcome.So like at any point along a timeline, you’re a success or a failure. (48:55) So you can’t look at a point on a timeline because that’s only a section because so knowing that in (49:05) the past, not knowing that you can’t look at a point on the timeline, you can’t look at your (49:10) present as the point in your timeline because it doesn’t define you either. Just like the past (49:16) didn’t define you.That’s a really good way. Don’t give up is good. Do you do any spiritual (49:24) meditations? Any kind of other types of alternate healings? Yeah.In rehab, I learned a lot of (49:33) tools. I had a lot of tools. They gave me a lot of tools.Meditation was one of them. I’ll be honest, (49:38) I’m not very disciplined about it. And it’s so hard to calm my brain that it’s exhausting to (49:45) meditate.It’s why you need it. But it’s one of those catch-22s. Exactly.And I get it because (49:53) it’s like your body needs a break. Well, your brain needs a break too. Because I don’t think (49:56) my brain sleeps.I think it goes into dream state and just acts out all night. So I really (50:03) need to recommit myself to doing some meditation because when I was doing it, (50:08) it was a very centering calming thing for me. And it’s definitely something I would recommend (50:14) for sure.But I kind of have just this, I used to be a Christian when I was growing up. I had (50:20) the Presbyterian stuff. Sorry to hear that.And then I kind of came around to the fact that (50:28) maybe this isn’t for me. I didn’t believe all that stuff. So I’m more of absolutely a spiritual (50:33) person.I think there is something higher than us. I just don’t think it’s some white dude in a (50:41) white gown sitting up on a cloud. I think it’s probably going to be in our own image.(50:48) You know what I mean? So anyway, we don’t go off on that tangent. No, I’d love to share that with (50:52) you. Well, my philosophy is very similar.I’m not atheist. Okay. I’m actually, I’m what they call (50:58) anti-theist.So what that is, is I’ve got my own story I’ll share on another podcast, but I’ve (51:08) shared it before. So I don’t like boring people on here. I can talk with you offline about it, (51:12) but I had experiences when I go, when I meditate, I get experiences.I get visions. (51:17) So I get, they’re not good. Yeah, they’re not good.They’re real. They happen. It’s not a pretty (51:24) site.So my first meditation that happened, it just knocked it. It’s the reason my podcast is (51:30) called Knocked Conscious. Cause it, the first vision I had, and I’ll just share it with you.(51:35) I’ll just stop there, but we can talk offline. But the first vision I had was a shooting (51:38) in South Carolina with Clementa Pinkman, the Dillon roof shooting the week before it happened. (51:45) I’m just completely hit me out of the blue and then was told that happened.Yeah. So, (51:52) so I don’t meditate, but I can offer Sam Harris. So anyway, I talk about anti-theist.So (51:58) I don’t know what I’ve experienced. I’ve been knocked conscious in this way of awareness to (52:03) look for this stuff. I’m C I’m a seeker.I don’t know what it is, but I 100% know that humans have (52:13) it wrong. That’s all I know. I don’t know what it is, but I know that it’s not, it can’t be (52:22) institutionalized like that.It’s not, it just can’t. So that’s my first side of it. I did a (52:28) two hour podcast with a guy named Bobby Azarian.He was on Joe Rogan. He did a book. He wrote a book (52:33) called romance of reality.Very interesting guy. I’ll send you the links if you’re interested in (52:38) taking a listen, but he’s a really great guy, but I look at, we look at this God thing as an (52:44) emergent property, not as a top down, not as a hierarchy down. So if you think about it, (52:50) single celled organism became multi-celled organism, enough neurons started, started connecting.(52:55) That’s what consciousness that’s what ultimately became consciousness. Well, there is a point where (52:59) there’s going to be a global consciousness of some sort where that those connections get to that (53:05) point. And that can only then be scaled out to a universal consciousness.I think at that point, (53:11) that’s where this God thing actually emerges. It merges out of us from the bottom up. (53:19) And when I, when I shared to you and I asked you about patting yourself on the back, (53:22) it wasn’t for, for pride or anything.It wasn’t like, Oh, look how great I did. It’s like, (53:28) you have to sometimes take a step and go, I am a puzzle piece of the universe. (53:35) And if I’m not whole, and if I didn’t get through the struggles I did, I couldn’t make my piece fit (53:42) with the rest of the universe.Right. So it was more of an acknowledgement of your self-worth (53:49) than a braggadocious claim that you fought through tough times, if that makes sense. (53:54) If I could clarify that.So yeah, so calm app, Sam Harris has thing, a meditation app. (54:03) They, they do work pretty well. They don’t work for me, like I said, because I go weird places, (54:07) but, but I found them, they do with, it does take a lot of time to calm that mind.(54:14) And I can imagine your mind’s probably bouncing like mine, the same thing. (54:19) So yeah, it’s like a double-decker highway, you know, with traffic going in both directions and (54:25) every once in a while, there’s a pile up bump bump into each other. Like bumper cars is really (54:30) what it is, right? Just bumper cars.Exactly. Exactly. Well, we’re in, we’re an hour in, (54:34) it’s been an, a very pleasurable conversation.Thank you so much for, for sharing your time. (54:40) I’m always humbled by the people that come on and share their time because (54:44) that’s just an invaluable thing. So thank you.Well, thank you for giving me the opportunity to (54:49) speak so freely and without judgment. I appreciate that. Excellent.Do you have any final words (54:54) before we call it a day? Yeah, I, again, I just appreciate you. I look forward to seeing what (55:02) else you’ve got in store for you. Excellent.Thank you. So nice to meet you. Welcome to the (55:08) Knocked Conscious family.I think we’re the biggest takeaway is don’t give up. I think is what we (55:12) said, right? I think that’s a great takeaway. Thank you so much.I’m going to hang, I’m going (55:17) to stop it here, but stay on and we’ll talk a little after. Okay. Okay.Sounds good. Thanks (55:21) so much. And welcome to the Knocked Conscious family, Lynette.Thank you. (55:46) Good night, sweetheart. Good night.