Jason is off this week, but will return next week. Guest co-host Joel Ellenwood joins Mark. Dive into the controversial and often overlooked side of Abraham Lincoln’s presidency on “If by Lincoln, you mean…” This gripping podcast explores the decisions, policies, and actions of the 16th President that some argue betrayed the very principles of American liberty and constitutional governance. From suspending habeas corpus and silencing dissent to centralizing federal power and waging a brutal war, we unpack the complexities of Lincoln’s legacy through a critical lens. Join Joel Ellenwood (@_InfiniteZeal on X) as we discuss whether Lincoln’s choices were necessary to save the Union or a dangerous departure from the ideals of freedom and self-governance. Thought-provoking, meticulously researched, and unafraid to challenge the mythos, we reveal a side of Honest Abe you won’t find in history textbooks. Tune in for a bold reexamination of one of America’s most iconic leaders.
Why Listen?
Uncover little-known stories of Lincoln’s presidency that challenge conventional narratives.
Hear insights on the constitutional and ethical implications of his actions.
Engage with a balanced exploration of Lincoln’s legacy – hero, tyrant, or something in between?
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Transcript:
(0:31) Welcome, welcome, welcome everyone to a brand new If By Whiskey, Sans Jason. (0:38) Jason is drinking whiskey somewhere on a vacation spot, I have no idea where it’s at, but he’s (0:42) not here today. (0:43) He will be here next week, but we have a special guest.(0:46) This way, this gentleman over here, Joel, at underscore infinite zeal. (0:52) Is that correct, Joel? (0:54) That is correct, sir. (0:55) All right, man.(0:56) Well, welcome so much to If By Whiskey. (0:59) I’ve been trying to do this for a long time, but I’ve watched your stuff and I’m not going (1:03) to lie, when people are sharp and quick and I feel intimidated to even start because I’d (1:10) like to think to be, I’m the one who’s sharp and quick and smart, and then I do the comparing (1:15) thing and I feel like I do it, but I’m glad we got to do this, man. (1:18) So welcome.(1:19) Well, I appreciate it. (1:20) Thanks for having me. (1:21) And, well, just to be honest, I’m probably one of the more retarded people you’ll have (1:25) on your show.(1:26) So just don’t, you know. (1:28) We were going to do the legal retards, but we just weren’t going to go that far with (1:32) it. (1:33) It’s got to get out of the way early before, you know, you find out later.(1:37) Exactly. (1:38) So, Joel, tell us a little bit about yourself. (1:41) Like I said, we’ve never met.(1:42) This is the first time. (1:42) But I know you’re supportive like buds and I’ll be honest, this is one of the cool things. (1:48) Jason and I were looking to start some kind of fun website, NeverBeanCoffee.com. (1:52) It’s a joke.(1:53) It’s off of the Douglas Murray thing. (1:55) And I literally just put out a little tweet, a little post. (1:58) I said, hey, if anybody has any skills or whatever, you know, just whatever.(2:01) You were the first person to message offering help and you’re like, I don’t know how I can (2:05) help, but I’m willing to help. (2:06) So just that, that’s like a beautiful, volunteerist kind of mindset. (2:12) Right.(2:12) And I just want to thank you for offering that. (2:15) Well, I appreciate it. (2:16) And I appreciate you starting, you know, starting your project and your pod and now this website.(2:21) And so I don’t have any like programming skills, but I’ve, whether if you’re selling coffee (2:25) or t-shirts or something, I’ll always, I’ll buy something off your site. (2:28) You know, I’ll do like, at least at the bare minimum can do that is maybe a bonus, but (2:35) yeah. (2:35) But, but like I said, you were just so happy to help in whatever way you could.(2:39) You didn’t, you didn’t even know which way, but you’re just like, hey, I’m throwing a (2:42) throw my hat in the ring just because like you support the messages that we all share. (2:45) So yeah. (2:46) And then like you brought up buds.(2:47) Yeah. (2:47) And you brought up buds and I was like, I sponsored his show for a little bit and I (2:50) was actually his first technically it wasn’t, but his first like paying sponsor, I think. (2:55) So I sponsored this show for a little bit and I just try to like, honestly, it’s just about (3:00) people who believe in what they’re doing, right.(3:02) They believe in the message they’re preaching about liberty and so on. (3:06) Maybe they’re making music and stuff, but and I just want to support them any way I can, (3:11) whether it’s just in being, trying to be encouraging or buying some of their merch or whatever (3:14) it is. (3:16) I just want to say, cause, cause it takes a lot of commitment and it’s something people (3:20) do every day.(3:20) And then maybe a lot of people, they’re not even monetizing it, they’re doing it cause (3:23) they enjoy it or they’re doing it cause they believe in it. (3:27) And that’s what it, to me, that’s what it’s all about. (3:29) Those are the people I want to support, not a bunch of quote unquote influencers who are (3:33) just, it’s completely astroturfed and they’re kind of paid to say certain things.(3:36) I want to support people and help people who I’m blind with and who I know are doing (3:41) honest work and believe in what they’re doing and they’re not like just shills or propped (3:44) up or paid to have to say certain things or giving of their own time and energy. (3:48) And I want to, you know, however I can help, I’m here to help and that goes for a lot of (3:52) other people too. (3:52) So that’s basically what I’m all about.(3:56) I’m really grateful for that. (3:57) So you mentioned the sponsorship thing cause I was always curious as I, do you have a brand (4:01) or a company that you, that you have, cause I see the beautiful Zorro type Z on your, (4:06) on your shirt behind you. (4:08) It’s Infinite Zeal.(4:09) It’s a little less, you know, just kind of starting to formalize it a little bit. (4:13) It’s just kind of my quote unquote mantra, I guess. (4:16) So this may be trying to formalize that in some way, but just using that, this, and like (4:21) I said, any way I can help support people and the Libertarian, Libertarian, the J’s (4:26) and caps, et cetera, kind of movement, I guess.(4:33) That’s really awesome, man. (4:34) So welcome. (4:34) So like, how did you, how did you start your journey into this Libertarian thing? (4:39) Cause what, the one thing that buds, you know, Sean, like I said, we, we, we talk about Sean.(4:43) I love Sean to death. (4:45) Sean is such a unique, special character. (4:47) It’s like, it’s so cool when like when he just starts going off, I just, I just sit (4:52) back, light up a cigarette and just watch him go.(4:54) It’s a beautiful thing. (4:55) But he always said no one started a Libertarian. (4:59) We always somehow got here.(5:01) So did you, did you kind of start this way or did you find your way to this kind of mindset? (5:05) No, I definitely didn’t start that way. (5:06) I kind of grew up with kind of your norm, your mainstream conservative Republican kind (5:13) of upbringing and that kind of environment. (5:16) So a lot of like whatever, all the, you know, all the Fox news, you know, that’s the kind (5:21) of stuff that’d be on TV growing up and that kind of thing.(5:25) And then just, I don’t know, I’m just kind of like a curious person just so growing up (5:29) there and the kind of school I was in, it was, it was a conservative like school, religious (5:35) school, but it was like a very like conservative kind of everyone there’s probably like Republican (5:38) that sort of thing. (5:39) It’s kind of from that kind of angle. (5:42) And just so there would be times when I would just maybe find, just find things that didn’t (5:47) make sense, what we’re taught in history class or government class.(5:49) And I would just kind of like, well, this is weird. (5:51) This is when I thought about this. (5:53) And so I would just kind of be like, just kind of curious.(5:55) I didn’t really understand anything about how really politics worked or anything at (5:59) the time. (6:00) But I was just curious and trying to learn. (6:03) And then, but just kind of the more people like will not demonize, but say, although, (6:12) you know, you know, we don’t ask that or like not answer the question or whatever, condemn (6:17) the question.(6:18) It’s kind of made me more like want to know more. (6:21) And what was that? (6:21) Did you say it was slightly religious and slightly, it was a religious school, but I’m (6:25) saying it wasn’t like overtly political, but everyone there is like conservative, Republican, (6:29) right? (6:29) But with the religious aspect, my buddy talked about that. (6:32) He went to a Catholic school growing up and it was one of those things where there are (6:35) certain things you just can’t question.(6:37) And that’s all he had was questions. (6:39) Right, right. (6:39) It was one of those things.(6:41) Yeah. (6:41) It was just one of those things like wherever, like, and then as I got older, it was when (6:46) I when I would formulating my worldview, it’s just when I was around kind of more (6:50) and I grew up in a blue state, I grew up in a red area in a blue state in New Jersey. (6:54) So most everyone’s liberal there, but there’s pockets of red and that’s where I was.(6:57) So when I’m around, you know, right wing, top Jersey or North Jersey, North Jersey or (7:03) Western North Jersey, you know, I’d be more I’d be considered more. (7:07) Oh, you’re more liberal. (7:07) And then you’re on liberal people like most libertarians.(7:09) You know, you’re around leftist people. (7:11) They think you’re right. (7:11) You’re on right wing people.(7:13) They think you’re left wing. (7:13) And then so that’s so you’re really kind of nowhere. (7:16) And then it’s over time, you know, you start getting into things and covid kind of really (7:20) opened my eyes to a lot of this like, oh, wow, this is a whole bunch of stuff is law.(7:24) All this there’s lie about everything. (7:25) What else are they lying about? (7:26) You know, so let’s just start finding out things. (7:29) So on Lincoln history and then you get involved with Mises Institute and you just follow Ron (7:33) Paul and all these people and you start learning stuff like, well, I was never taught about (7:36) any of this stuff ever.(7:39) So why and why not? (7:40) Why is that? (7:41) Right. (7:41) And then just kind of going from there. (7:43) Right.(7:44) Exactly. (7:44) So it’s just giving a timeline. (7:46) What years did you go to like junior high, high school or high school, like ninth to (7:50) 12th? (7:51) I graduated high school in 2013.(7:54) OK, so 13. (7:55) So like 10 to 13, something like that. (7:57) So like nine to 13, I was in high school, I think.(8:00) Yeah. (8:00) OK, so you just so basically just came out of Obama doing the bank stuff. (8:05) So you you must not have you must have heard stuff about it probably in school, but you (8:10) didn’t really think too much about it because it was right before this.(8:13) If this tells you anything, the first and only time I’ve ever voted was in 2012. (8:19) That was my first time I was eligible to vote in a presidential election. (8:22) I voted for Mitt Romney and I thought that was because this is my upbringing.(8:26) I did the same. (8:28) I thought that was like, oh, Obama’s like a communist basically. (8:31) And I remember specifically like people I know still to this day, they would say things (8:35) like we have to vote for Mitt Romney because if Obama wins again, he’s never going to leave (8:40) office.(8:40) He’s going to be a king. (8:41) Like, you know, just repeating all the Fox News kind of scaremongering stuff like he’s (8:45) going to be a king for life. (8:45) He’s never going to get out of office.(8:47) You have to, you know, vote for Mitt Romney, blah, blah, blah, blah. (8:51) You know, you look back now and I’m like, wow, like my voting record is Mitt Romney, (8:56) you know? (8:56) Right. (8:58) So not great.(9:00) Well, yeah. (9:00) And what we’re learning is obviously there were there’s this larger force at hand that (9:04) tends to be steering the ship more than the left and the right. (9:07) Right.(9:08) Right. (9:08) And it was funny is now you see people like, oh, we want Trump to run for a third term (9:12) and a fourth. (9:12) You know, maybe they’re joking or not, but it is kind of funny, like, oh, my gosh, Obama’s (9:16) going to he’s never going to leave office.(9:17) And then it’s like, oh, Trump, you should run him in front of third term. (9:21) Right. (9:21) Right.(9:22) I mean, they go from I mean, let’s not I mean, he’s obviously persecuted for ridiculous reasons, (9:27) but he goes from crying to that to like screaming for a third term. (9:30) Right. (9:31) It’s like the opposite to that.(9:32) Which maybe it’s just trying to trigger people could be. (9:35) But it’s still kind of this funny how you just see this, you know, the same kind of people (9:41) scaremongering about on one end and then, you know, oh, we’re cheering for it on the (9:45) other end. (9:45) And that’s just kind of what is those kind of inconsistencies.(9:48) And I remember people in growing up, I remember I went to a Christian school and I remember (9:52) someone there, the teacher would say something pretty much like, if you’re a Democrat, you (10:00) can’t go to heaven. (10:01) And I remember just being in like a high school, I’m like, that really doesn’t make any sense. (10:05) It’s like not even in the Bible anywhere.(10:06) Like we’re supposed to be like a Christian school, like you believe the Bible. (10:09) It’s like that’s literally like there’s no such thing as a Democrat and Republican in (10:13) the Bible. (10:13) That word’s not even mentioned.(10:15) That’s not even like. (10:16) So it’s like they’re just trying to tie like them because they’re like pro abortion. (10:20) So it’s like, oh, you must be pro abortion, so you can’t be.(10:22) So it’s like but it’s like this stuff like that, this inconsistencies, I would just kind (10:27) of start realizing sort of like, OK, this doesn’t make any sense. (10:29) And then just this and then just the propaganda, you know, slowly but surely over the years (10:34) starts to unravel. And then you just kind of, you know, you try to find what’s true or (10:38) not.(10:39) Yeah, it’s kind of interesting picking at the string. (10:41) So. So welcome again.(10:44) Welcome to another If By Whiskey, everybody. (10:46) We’re going to talk, Lincoln, I promise. (10:48) Allegedly, there’s some some side to Lincoln that I haven’t heard of yet.(10:52) And I’m going to try to stossel you. (10:54) I’m going to try to be like. (10:55) How are you going to say it next and not have heard of it yet? (10:58) Some some people said he held it together.(11:01) Some people say he holds a nation together. (11:03) So we’ll try to see if I can John Stossel as best I can. (11:06) But we’ll see.We’ll see what we can do. (11:07) But but guys, everybody who’s joined us, thank you so much. (11:11) Unfortunately, Jason can’t be with us today.(11:13) But if you could do us a huge favor, if you could jump over to Rumble, we just got our (11:18) channel Rumble dot com slash if by whiskey jump right on there. (11:23) Click follow or join. (11:25) Join Jason’s Rumble.(11:26) We’ll put the banner up throughout the day. (11:28) It’s down here. (11:29) But I want to make sure we have Joel’s name up there throughout the day as well.(11:33) So you’ll see that banner. (11:34) But do us a favor. (11:35) If you could do that, we’d really appreciate it.(11:37) Any help would be grateful. (11:38) Joel, thank you again for joining us. (11:40) So we’re talking about your journey.(11:42) So you voted Mitt Romney once. (11:45) So what happened? (11:47) 2016, then. (11:50) 2016, I didn’t vote and I wasn’t for like any particular reason.(11:54) I think actually I had a job interview in Washington, D.C. (11:59) on Election Day in 2016. (12:02) So that’s like I didn’t vote because I was going to that. (12:04) That’s the whole day because I was in New Jersey at the time.(12:06) I didn’t end up taking the job. (12:08) But it’s just interesting. (12:09) I was like it was Election Day in 2016 and I was in Washington, D.C. (12:12) like interviewing at a non-even political company just for something.(12:17) So I didn’t vote. (12:18) And then so I was still kind of like in my conservative kind of happy Trump won in (12:23) 2016. And then it wasn’t until like close to 2020 (12:28) was kind of started to find my footing and what I was, you know, believed and (12:32) everything.So yeah. (12:34) So then and then since then, I hadn’t voted out of the period, like deliberately, (12:38) like, OK, I’m not voting because it’s like this is just BS, you know. (12:42) Right.Yeah. (12:43) I voted Republican. (12:46) I voted elephant since Bush senior in 92.(12:51) So I went just across I didn’t even vote Ron Paul in the, you know, ought or 12 or (12:55) anything. I didn’t vote. (12:56) I just voted straight Republicans.(12:58) I’m like, I got to be honest, like lesser to evil for sure. (13:02) I definitely wasn’t going to go the other way. (13:04) That’s just how I saw it.(13:05) I don’t know why. I don’t you know, I just felt like that’s the way it was, you (13:10) know, because I guess my upbringing and all that, too. (13:12) So so this is interesting.(13:14) It’s like, did you have a specific moment that broke for you or did you just slowly (13:19) read more or did you just get yourself more informed with stuff or. (13:22) Well, it’s just like you’re in covid right in here. (13:25) And then you come back here.(13:26) That’s when I started coming across more of a kind of libertarian people like Dave (13:29) Smith and Ron Paul and that kind of stuff. (13:31) I’m like, yeah, what they’re saying, this is really good stuff. (13:32) This makes sense because you are being like told all this.(13:36) You know, we all know that the the the gaslighting, everything on covid. (13:40) And it’s like, OK, this is nonsense. (13:42) And then and then that’s just what that’s what kind of got me into.(13:47) The more kind of dissident camps like libertarians and stuff like that, and then (13:50) they just being introduced to, like like I said, the Mises Institute, all their kind (13:55) of historians and and then, you know, all the end caps and getting familiar with them (14:02) and and like, oh, yeah, this is kind of like more my lane. (14:06) What makes sense to me? (14:07) They seem to be the most consistent across the board because another thing was. (14:14) Tom Woods, I think it was maybe been Tom Woods, I was watching old Tom Woods clips (14:20) because he was I guess he started out, I guess, with like in the neocon kind of.(14:25) A lot of us did. (14:26) Right. And so he and then so he’s talking about the war stuff.(14:30) That’s really kind of I was like, yeah, because because me, where I grew up, (14:35) it’s like very pro-life, right? (14:36) And I I’m pro-life. (14:38) I think, you know, abortion is murder and everything. (14:39) So but it’s like so they they they’re really they harp on the right wing.(14:44) They harp on, you know, I’m preaching to the choir, but harp on the pro-life (14:48) abortions murder. And then when it comes to war, there’s always excuses and (14:52) justification and why killing a million kids is there’s no, you know, it’s it’s (14:57) worth it. And I’m not necessarily wrong.(15:00) You know, an Albright, I think, said that, right? (15:01) Yeah. And then they’re just and then it’s like, yes, it was worth it. (15:04) Sure.And it’s like, OK, so. (15:08) You know, aborting a baby is wrong, OK, but then it’s like we have all the (15:12) there’s. Like it’s like you’re telling me everyone’s created an image of God, (15:19) OK? That’s either true or it’s not.(15:21) So that applies to people, civilians in wartime as well. (15:24) And for some reason, that doesn’t that principle doesn’t apply (15:28) with a lot of people in the right wing. (15:30) At least at least it didn’t.(15:31) That seems like it is more a lot of people in kind of the right. (15:34) Or at least being more vocal against kind of the war machine. (15:39) So it was stuff like that that just kind of like, oh, yeah, that is I never like (15:42) I didn’t think about it like that or I was never exposed to this kind of (15:46) data or information about the war that we were all taught.(15:49) There’s all these legitimate reasons. (15:50) We’re always the good guys, never the bad guys. (15:52) We always have a justifiable reason for everything we do.(15:54) We’re America like we never do anything wrong. (15:56) And I’m like, oh, you know, we’re America. (15:58) Of course we would.(15:59) They’re terrorists. (15:59) They’re trying to kill us. (16:00) And it’s like, OK, that was completely made up.(16:03) You know what I mean? So. (16:05) Right. We are good.(16:06) Our side is good. (16:07) We are good. That is what we are.Right. (16:10) I mean, this, I guess, is just a little bit of like you all have the libertarian. (16:14) You all guess I think you just have to naturally (16:16) just all have a little bit better pattern recognition to everybody else (16:18) because you just start to see things happening over and you’re like (16:22) the autism, right? (16:23) Like, yeah, it’s like you said this.(16:25) Now you’re saying this. (16:26) And then this keeps happening and you’re saying it’s not. (16:29) It’s that’s what it is.(16:30) It’s the consistency. (16:31) It’s the it’s the it’s we hold the standard true (16:35) regardless. (16:37) And it’s I don’t think that’s even a moral thing.(16:39) I think that’s just like the thing. (16:41) Like, I don’t even think there’s a moral aspect to it. (16:43) I think it’s objection, like objection, the right way to do things is like (16:47) we say, is this wrong, regardless of it’s this group (16:51) or that group or the other group, right? (16:53) Like, yeah, you know, we look at these conflicts across the world.(16:56) We’re like, one guy’s one side’s good. (16:57) One side’s bad. (16:58) You’re like, OK, just mathematically, what are the chances a country (17:03) that’s been at war basically its entire existence for over 200 years? (17:07) Like, what are the chances just mathematically that they’re justified (17:11) in 100 percent of the wars are always like a good there’s always a good reason.(17:14) This is just, you know, you think they’re at least they would at least, (17:19) you know, of course, after the fact, everybody admits like the Iraq war (17:22) is wrong now, but when it matters, you know, no one seems to have a you know, (17:26) when it’s politically, (17:28) you know, acceptable to condemn the Iraq war, then everybody (17:31) like John McCain’s, oh, you know, that I was wrong about that. (17:34) It’s like, OK, well, when it mattered, you were all for it. (17:38) So, I mean, sorry, that doesn’t you know, I can’t accept that.Right. (17:41) So it just yeah, just that kind of thing. (17:44) And and then I just can’t take it.(17:46) And like we talked about, you know, we’re going to talk about Lincoln. (17:49) But that’s the thing with him. (17:50) It was just like.This. (17:55) Essentially, like it’s we’re supposed to worship him. (17:59) He’s got a literal temple in Washington, D.C. (18:02) He’s on our money.He’s on Mount Rushmore. (18:05) All right. So there’s a Lincoln Memorial where he’s big.(18:09) Lincoln’s sitting in this thing with pillars. Right. (18:11) He’s on the back of the penny.Right. (18:13) Yeah. The front of the penny.(18:14) And then he’s at Mount Rushmore and everything and everything. (18:17) And he gets his name is his reference for whatever. (18:20) Every president wants to do something.(18:23) It’s your name, drop Lincoln. (18:24) So it’s and it’s and it’s just the. (18:29) Just refusal to, like, acknowledge (18:30) like literal facts that like things that he did.(18:34) And then, you know. (18:37) Again, it’s just like it’s making it when your guy does it, (18:41) there’s always a good reason why he did it. (18:42) You know what I mean? (18:43) Jailing people for criticizing the regime.(18:45) It’s like, well, yeah, he had to do it. (18:48) And so it’s like, OK, so you don’t really believe in free speech. (18:50) You believe in free speech when Democrats are are censoring speech.(18:54) When your guys are doing it, (18:55) there is a justifiable 100 percent good reason to do it. (18:59) And so it’s just like that just like bothers me so much. (19:02) Like those kind of contradictions.(19:03) I just like, I don’t know. (19:04) I just have to like keep that comes with us in age. (19:08) Yeah.Like if you’re like to your point, you’re a pattern recognizer. (19:11) You have a little bit more of an independent streak to you. (19:14) You take a half a step back and you go, no, this isn’t smell right.(19:20) Something doesn’t smell right. (19:21) Right. Like how is this not hypocrisy to your point? Right.(19:25) Yeah. And I’m and I’m used to being kind of like a contrarian (19:27) and kind of being the like this oddball, like only person (19:31) because like I’ll go like I’m the only person in my family (19:34) that really cares about any of this stuff. (19:35) Most of my family’s like in the sports and stuff like that, (19:38) which is fine.(19:39) But it’s like I and but it’s like I go like I like to go in there (19:42) and kind of press people’s buttons about stuff and people who are like (19:45) leave all the propaganda and then they get they’re getting really like rattled (19:48) and frustrated and that kind of thing. (19:50) So I kind of get a kick out of being a contrarian to a degree (19:53) and kind of just like trying to make people uncomfortable by bringing up (19:56) like, you know, around my family who find it annoying or like, (20:00) why am I disrespecting the greatest president in American history? (20:02) You know what I mean? (20:03) Or so they think. (20:04) So that’s an element of it, too.(20:06) Just like getting people getting really triggered about stuff like this. (20:09) I just I just find it kind of funny. (20:12) So, well, there’s part of that because it’s like I’ll make a post on purpose, (20:18) not because of my belief.(20:19) It’s to like expose the people who are going to comment on it. (20:24) Yeah. And it’s definitely, you know.(20:27) Yeah, there’s definitely the. (20:30) Yeah, people, it’s people tend to get riled up pretty easily, especially when they (20:35) when it comes to like broadly accepted narratives about certain topics. (20:39) Right.If you kind of go again (20:40) and we see that with like World War Two and the Holocaust and all Israel (20:43) and all those kind of things, you kind of go against the (20:49) the the official narrative even just a little bit. (20:52) You know what I mean? (20:53) Then all of a sudden, you know, you’re a heretic (20:55) and you have to go, you know, go to hell or something. (20:57) So, right.And we do see that. (20:59) And what’s interesting is like to your point, it’s like the John (21:02) McCain’s didn’t realize it in hindsight. (21:06) Retrospectively, they realized that they were being POS is the whole time.(21:10) And then they just admitted that they were like a Tucker Carlson, for example. (21:15) It’s kind of very similar path to him. (21:17) And what’s what I find interesting, and it’s not I’m nothing like Tucker.(21:20) I mean, Tucker is a very unique, very interesting guy. (21:25) But Tucker went for the whole Iraq thing. (21:27) That was my whole thing.(21:28) I bought into that hook, line and sinker and then just realized (21:31) once that unraveled just how that just complete WMDs. (21:38) Oh, yellow cake uranium a week before we invade. (21:42) And then you see like the new you know, the the thing where they show (21:45) the news alert with Iran having it and stuff.(21:47) And you’re like, it’s a blueprint of the exact same thing you guys have been doing. (21:50) Over and over again with these false flags and stuff. (21:54) It’s so crazy.(21:56) Yeah, there’s there’s a playbook and it’s I forget who has the quote, (22:00) but it’s something like like they’re going to gaslight, gaslight and propagandize. (22:05) And when that doesn’t work anymore, that’s when they start clamping. (22:09) That’s when they start like putting people in jail.(22:10) You know, we’re going to jail dissidents and we’re going to make sure (22:14) you get fired or something from the wrong opinion. (22:18) So it’s. Yeah, that’s what basically (22:21) my little guy running down here.(22:25) But yeah, that’s basically how it goes. (22:26) There’s one plane to playbook and (22:29) and I say this all the time and it’s from the book of Ecclesiastes (22:32) that there’s nothing new under the sun, and I believe that. (22:34) So it’s just like you can just see this, look back and you can kind of see (22:37) the same kind of things over and over again.(22:41) And so it’s really no surprise that, you know, the people responsible (22:44) for all the COVID lockdowns and vaccine mandates are back in office. (22:48) Right. So you can’t really it shouldn’t be really any surprise (22:51) and really nothing’s changing.(22:53) And that goes for President Trump, too. (22:56) It’s like he was pushing the lockdowns and the vaccine and stuff. (22:59) No accountability at all for any of that.(23:00) We just sweep run of the rug, act like it never happened. (23:03) And so it’s no surprise that really, again, like we keep seeing (23:07) the same kind of patterns over and over again (23:08) because the people who were responsible for them. (23:11) Nothing ever happens, there’s no count, there’s no accountability, (23:14) they get reelected in office because at the end of the day, (23:17) the scaremongering work still works and it always will.(23:19) The rhetoric, it’s all the Democrats are going to (23:23) they’re communists and they’re going to destroy America. (23:25) We have to. And so everyone holds their nose and votes Republican again, (23:27) even though Republicans are just as responsible, if not more so in many ways.(23:32) And then the cycle repeats. (23:34) So until we kind of stop with the. (23:38) You know, like making excuses and like for people, (23:45) for people like President Trump, it’s like, oh, well, he was you know, (23:47) they had to be as prosecutions and they did.(23:49) That doesn’t mean like I’m going to like give him a pass for everything else (23:54) that he’s doing that like or that’s wrong or whatever. (23:57) So, yeah, like one great example for that is do we want? (24:02) I don’t know. Let’s just say everybody.(24:05) Nobody wants illegal migrants in the country. (24:09) But in order to get rid of every illegal migrant, (24:13) you’d have to do a door to door search. (24:15) Just that alone is like a Fourth Amendment violation, I mean, you know, (24:19) I’m like, I’m not interested, you know what I mean? (24:23) Like this, they’re alone.(24:24) Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it’s crazy, but.(24:28) Yeah. And then it just it’s just a rhetoric. (24:30) It’s just like, oh, we’re going to do that.(24:32) You know, and then everyone’s telling me. (24:34) I remember I went on some guy’s pod and he’s like a big Trump guy. (24:37) And this is before the election.(24:39) He’s trying to convince me to vote for Trump. (24:41) And it’s like, well, he’s going to he’s going to do mass deportations (24:45) and get rid of all the illegal aliens and stuff. (24:47) It’s like, OK, yeah, no, he’s not.(24:49) I mean, there was lots of illegal immigration under Trump. (24:52) I think I believe in like up until that point in his first term, (24:58) like a twenty nineteen or something like he had like one of the highest (25:00) kind of rates of illegal immigration. (25:02) Right.And look, Marco Rubio wrote the bill (25:06) along with Democrats in the Senate to bring 500000 Venezuelans here. (25:11) And now look at him being like, we need to get rid of the Venezuelans, (25:14) like, dude, you brought you actually backed the bill. (25:19) And so, you know what I mean? (25:20) Like you co-signed the bill that brought them here to D.C. (25:24) It was literally to destabilize that nation.(25:26) Yeah. And you’re just like, come on, man. (25:28) Now you’re on the other side of this.(25:30) Yeah. So that’s just and that’s a seal in politicians for you. (25:33) So basically, it’s almost like essentially what Marco Rubio’s (25:38) or anyone else says in front of a camera or in the campaign trail or in Fox News.(25:43) At the very best, take it with a huge grain of salt, (25:46) if not just completely, completely like disregard it (25:48) and assume it’s just kind of a pan. It’s pandering. (25:50) You know what I mean? So it’s not for sure.(25:53) They’re just the point of a campaign is to tell people what they want to hear. (25:56) They have like consulting firms and these professionals (25:59) how to craft a statement. (26:00) We need to appeal to this group.(26:02) So you’re just saying things. (26:03) But that’s but again, it’s like it doesn’t matter (26:05) how many times someone just says something and does the opposite like. (26:10) Next election, the scaremongering about Democrats will work again.(26:13) And so as long as you just get them to say stuff, (26:16) we’ll see in the midterms, we’re all going to have to hold our nose (26:18) and vote for Lindsey Graham and everybody else. (26:21) I’m in South Carolina. (26:22) We’re all going to have to hold our nose and, you know, we have to just (26:25) Trump’s like endorsing every rhino.(26:27) So we’re all just supposed to. (26:29) Oh, well, we can’t let Democrats win. (26:30) So we got to vote Lindsey Graham.(26:31) We got to vote for (26:33) Mike Johnson or whoever, whoever else. (26:36) So it’s just no. (26:38) I don’t want to call out South Carolina, but you got Nikki Haley and Lindsey Graham.(26:44) What is going on over there? (26:46) Yeah. Nikki Haley, Lindsey Graham. (26:48) Is it is it Boeing? (26:49) Because in the military stuff, it’s got to be right.(26:52) Nancy Mace is kind of sketch, in my opinion, actually are in my county. (26:56) My county sheriff is being investigated by the FBI for like a whole bunch of stuff. (27:01) So I don’t know what it is.(27:02) Yeah, we have that. (27:02) We have like a Lockheed Martin facility here, (27:06) which I think, you know, Boeing, like, yeah, there’s a whole bunch of like. (27:09) Yeah, that makes sense.(27:10) So I get that. (27:11) So it’s a big I didn’t know South Carolina was a military machine kind of. (27:15) They got some they got some bases here and then they got the like the like the (27:20) some of the kind of aerospace or (27:26) company have like UFO UAP.(27:29) Yeah, there’s like a big. (27:30) Yeah, there’s a big Lockheed facility not far from here and everything. (27:33) So, yeah, they’re building planes for Saudis and everybody else.(27:37) So. Yeah, that’s amazing. (27:39) So so that that explains it, because like I’ll be honest, (27:42) I’m not that familiar with the geography and where, (27:47) you know, I knew Boeing was in Washington initially, but I didn’t know (27:50) there was that big of a presence in South Carolina with Lockheed Martin and Boeing.(27:53) And then all these. (27:54) Well, I think they’re very strategic how they put their facilities in place. (27:56) And it’s probably certain people’s districts and stuff.(27:58) It’s like, you know, my job, that’s holding jobs. (28:00) Look, we’re bringing jobs. (28:01) All my jobs.Right. (28:02) So once you start throwing the job word around, it’s like, oh, we’re bringing (28:05) 50,000 jobs here and subcontractors. (28:08) And it’s going to be great for the economy.Right. (28:09) And it’s like no one’s thinking about people (28:12) because it’s very legitimized from people’s minds. (28:15) It’s like, oh, they’re building (28:17) planes to protect their country and stuff.(28:19) And it’s like, well, I mean, maybe to some degree. (28:22) But there’s a lot of like, you know, we are our (28:26) I mean, war is an economy in this country. (28:28) So that’s this to be part of it.(28:29) So but if you’re offering somebody a job and stable benefits and stuff, (28:33) it doesn’t really kind of I guess it doesn’t matter what it is. (28:35) You can kind of convince them that there’s a good reason to have it. (28:38) Yeah.Like what you said is we can find a we can find a reason. (28:43) Right. I think we like some Jason always said, he’s like, (28:47) I think we generally have the answer and then we try to rationalize (28:50) the reason behind the answer more than reason out the answer.(28:54) But to your point, libertarians have this unique perspective (28:57) of taking a step back and being critical regardless and maybe to a fault. (29:02) But it’s like almost a little more safe to be overly critical (29:05) than to be overly trust trustworthy and get caught up in (29:08) the corruption or the capture. (29:09) Yeah.When it comes to government, you can’t be too. (29:13) I mean, yeah, it’s not I don’t I guess it’s it’s probably yeah, (29:17) it’s probably definitely better to be overly critical (29:18) about everything the government does. (29:20) Then they’re going to be even a little bit credulous (29:23) and legitimize what they’re doing.(29:25) And although they’re just, you know, Lady Justice is just here to make sure, (29:28) you know, it’s a level playing field and laws apply equally to everybody (29:31) and blah, blah, blah, blah. (29:33) And it’s, you know, you don’t know that’s not the case. (29:37) Well, once again, everyone, welcome to another if by whiskey, (29:39) we’re here with Joel Infinite Zeal actually asked at underscore (29:43) Infinite Zeal on Twitter on X. (29:46) And do you have yourself a show, a podcast, anything else you do? (29:49) Or do you just post on on X? (29:52) I just post on it for now.(29:54) We’ll see about maybe kind of doing some other projects, too, with people again. (29:57) Like I’m just going to be supporting like your every anyone’s project. (30:01) I can help in any way.(30:03) That’s what that’s what I’m trying to do. (30:04) I’m trying to support the people who are doing all the doing all the heavy lifting (30:07) and who are making all the content and doing all the hard work. (30:11) And I just want to just whatever.(30:13) Anyway, anyway, I can (30:16) be encouraging or assist or buy your product or whatever support you work. (30:19) I want to do that. (30:20) Well, we are beyond grateful and we’re just thankful that you’re here (30:24) because you’re here to educate me, sir.(30:27) Just a little bit. (30:28) I know I’m not going to put you on too much of a spot, but you’re well read (30:31) on this specific on this specific topic. (30:33) And Jason was unavailable.(30:35) I thought of you coming on and stuff. (30:37) And I’m like, well, what can we talk about? (30:38) And I know you love to shitpost about Lincoln, even if it’s just posting. (30:44) I don’t know.I don’t know what it is. (30:46) But like, I know you haven’t been there. (30:48) I know you haven’t been there.(30:49) I’ve never met him. (30:50) I’ve never been to (30:53) a battle in the war between the states or anything. (30:56) So I’m not an expert or historian.(30:58) Yeah, you’re not an expert. (31:00) But but there are real experts. (31:02) There are real experts on this topic.(31:03) I give you the Abbeville Institute, Tom DiLorenzo, those kind of people (31:08) that those are great places to get (31:11) to get it. And that’s where I get my, you know, that’s why I’m not like a genius. (31:15) I learned that’s why I posted that book list.(31:17) It’s like that’s why that’s why I learned it. (31:19) You know what I mean? (31:20) Just by trying to learn to be curious and find out what went on. (31:22) I’m not inherently like smart.(31:24) It’s just like these people did the hard work and I want to learn from it. (31:28) And and it’s just kind of fun to trigger people who worship Abraham Lincoln. (31:31) I just, you know, (31:33) it is fun.(31:35) It’s not that I dislike. (31:37) I think it’s fun to mess with anyone to worship anybody like Reagan was perfect. (31:41) And the whole Churchill thing, let’s be honest, that Darrell Cooper thing.(31:45) Oh, my goodness. (31:45) One little sentence sent the entire Twitterverse like ablaze. (31:52) Just this thing about, you know, Churchill wasn’t, you know, (31:54) maybe could have been a villain, maybe a little bit kind of sort of maybe.(31:57) Yeah. Yeah. And I definitely agree.(31:59) And David Irving, he’s a great historian, British historian (32:02) who’s done a lot of work on (32:05) he wrote about the bombing of Dresden. (32:07) And he he’s gone to like. (32:11) All the National Archives and dug up all sorts of stuff (32:13) about Churchill, World War two and everything.(32:16) So that’s another great person to learn from. (32:18) And that’s like a legit like (32:20) I think he did jail time for like the night for like having the wrong opinion (32:24) on World War two. (32:24) But I forget exactly what for.(32:26) Maybe like Holocaust denial. (32:27) I think he did something like that. (32:28) You’re having the wrong opinion.(32:30) All right. He’s a real like he’s a legit like real historian. (32:33) Like he’s going to primary sources.(32:35) He’s got like he’s gone to widows of Nazi officers, British officers. (32:39) He’s got their personal journals. (32:40) He’s gone to National Archives.(32:42) He’s actually looked he’s everything is from primary sources, (32:45) like documents, government documents, (32:49) memos, personal journals, these kind of things. (32:52) So and he’s, you know, very if you. (32:55) If you learn something from Dale Cooper, I would encourage you to (33:00) to look into David Irving.(33:02) He’s got this lot of David Irving videos on Rumble. (33:05) I haven’t seen that many on YouTube, but he’s a lot of his stuff’s (33:07) been posted on Rumble, a lot of his speed talks and whatnot. (33:09) So but yeah, it’s it’s we definitely live in an outrage culture (33:14) and it’s not just the left, it’s the right.(33:15) You have the wrong opinion on moon landing, World War two, et cetera. (33:20) Lincoln, whatever Trump and the knives come out for sure. (33:24) Like and that’s the funny thing is everybody’s so binary.(33:30) Why? Why can’t it be? Yes. (33:31) And like, yes, he was X. (33:36) And he also happened to be this part of him as well. (33:40) Like that’s the nuance of humanity, isn’t it? (33:43) Yeah, it’s it’s.(33:47) I guess, yeah, and it’s it’s just I don’t know, I guess it’s because it’s just (33:50) it’s just political and political is inherently tribal and (33:55) it’s cultish to a degree. (33:57) And it’s about your team and your side or our third evil. (34:00) And we’re the good guys.(34:01) And once you kind of boil it down to that, then it’s there’s (34:04) then there’s really not room for nuance. (34:06) It’s just like, we’re good, they’re bad. (34:07) It’s very like kind of.(34:09) Like third grade level. (34:11) And once you start to learn about it, it’s like, yeah, what you’re taught is (34:15) is like a third grade level kind of like understanding (34:17) and the rebuttals are just kind of like it’s like, yeah, like why? (34:22) Like why did, you know, Lincoln have to start a war? (34:25) You know, you can just say like, you know, Lincoln was the villain of the Civil War. (34:29) It wasn’t even a civil war.(34:30) Let me just start there. (34:31) First of all, let’s break it down. (34:34) All right.(34:34) Like, let’s go through the history, right? (34:36) The South was going to break from the North and we wouldn’t. (34:39) And Lincoln kept them together and they fought a battle over slavery. (34:43) That’s like the story.(34:44) Basically, it’s a comic book. (34:46) It’s a comic book. (34:47) Yeah.Like Lincoln. (34:49) Lincoln, like he just woke up every day and he was just like (34:53) he hated slavery and he couldn’t sleep at night because he was just so burdened (34:56) by the legacy of slavery and how brutal it was. (35:00) And so he had to start.(35:00) He had to invade the South and slavery. (35:02) And it’s like, OK, well, there was northern states with slavery. (35:06) And then there was the Corwin Amendment, which Lincoln Lincoln (35:09) was a constitutional amendment.(35:12) Which northern senators introduced. (35:15) And basically what the Corwin Amendment said was. (35:19) The federal government cannot interfere with (35:21) won’t interfere with your labor law, so essentially like.(35:25) It’s a constitutional amendment (35:26) that says the federal government will never take away your slaves ever. (35:30) And it was so that the federal government would not interfere (35:33) with each individual state’s labor laws, is that right? (35:36) Right. So, yes.(35:37) So so there was a state they were concerned like, oh, well, (35:41) Lincoln might take away our slaves and stuff. (35:43) And they actually this was signed and signed. (35:46) I believe it was Buchanan signed his last day in office.(35:50) Lincoln supported it. (35:51) And he wrote every the governor of the seeding states and said, OK, (35:55) all you have to do is rejoin the union. (35:57) We have a constitutional amendment.(35:59) Enshrined in the Constitution, we will never take away your slaves (36:01) in the states where it already existed. (36:06) And so they and they seceded anyway. (36:08) So if if it was all about slavery, which were taught like it was all about slavery.(36:13) Then surely they would have said, oh, we have a constitutional guarantee (36:17) that you will never take away our slaves. (36:19) They would have taken that deal. (36:21) At least I think if it was all about all about slavery.(36:24) Right, right. (36:26) And then and then maybe, you know, there would have been (36:28) some of the the states in the union that had slaves. (36:33) Why didn’t Lincoln invade any of them? (36:35) I don’t know.So that’s that’s that, too. (36:39) So but it wasn’t. (36:40) Let me put this up very quickly from from our friend.(36:42) Actually, this gentleman actually was very close to me. (36:45) David Irving was convicted of disputing protected facts of the Holocaust. (36:50) To your point, Joel, he served 13 months or three or sentence in in Austria.(36:56) OK, yeah, that sounds about right. (36:57) I wasn’t sure which country it was. (36:59) That’s pretty interesting.(37:01) But but yeah, first of all, it wasn’t. (37:03) That’s part of the kind of indoctrination is like calling it a civil war. (37:06) That implies that the Confederacy and so they were like, you know, rebels.(37:11) They were trying to overthrow the central government, (37:13) which that’s what a civil war is like. (37:15) You’re trying to overthrow the central government. (37:16) They were seceding.Right. (37:17) So if that was a civil war, if that was a civil war, (37:20) then the Revolutionary War was also a civil war because we (37:25) we were just seceding basically from it was a war of self-determination. (37:29) We want to govern ourselves.(37:31) That’s not a civil war. (37:32) The South was we want to go on ourselves. (37:34) So to the point is the South was not looking to march on Washington.(37:40) No, the South was literally fighting for its sovereignty individually. (37:44) Is that what they did? (37:45) They didn’t like invade Washington, D.C. or anything else. (37:48) All right.Right. That’s what I’m saying. Right.(37:49) They they wanted to they fought for their sovereignty, (37:52) not for as an invading force on another like right on the right. (37:56) Yeah. They set up their own capital and had their own.(37:58) So it was like it’s not a civil war at all. Right. (38:01) Yeah.And we’re just trying to clarify these points for people (38:04) because, you know, a lot of people don’t even (38:05) probably aren’t even taught this stuff anymore in school. (38:08) The way it’s. Yeah.(38:10) And it’s for sure. (38:12) Yeah. So that’s, you know, and where was I? (38:17) Yeah, they they were seceding and.(38:19) Oh, they didn’t they didn’t turn on the on the on the northern states. (38:23) He didn’t know they were they were getting paid. (38:25) They were getting taxed to hell with Lincoln’s tariffs.(38:28) And so they were getting (38:31) they felt they were getting they were being kind of abused (38:35) because they were being taxed. (38:36) And it was all that money was going to fund like northern projects. Right.(38:42) They’re like, well, we’re industrial, all the industrial type stuff. (38:45) That’s like you’re taxing the hell out of us, our main industry. (38:47) It’s like we’re not seeing any of this.(38:49) It’s all the finance, your stuff up there. (38:52) And then 30 years earlier, there was a similar (38:55) that it was a tariff of abomination, South Carolina, almost to see it again (39:00) over was a Henry Clay and his. (39:02) So the 30 years earlier, there was this massive tariff.(39:05) And South Carolina was like, we’re not paying. (39:06) We’re just we’re out. (39:08) And then they came to an agreement.(39:10) Slowly over time, they lowered a tariff and then Lincoln comes in. (39:13) Implements another tariff, and then they’re like, OK, we’ve had enough. (39:16) We’re done.(39:19) And that’s and that’s to me, it seems like that’s kind of the main thing. (39:23) It wasn’t like we want to keep our slaves and you won’t let us. (39:26) It’s like Lincoln guaranteed you you could keep your slaves (39:28) and they seceded anyway.(39:29) So that to me, that kind of blows the it was all about slavery (39:32) narrative out of the water. (39:34) Right. And not to mention, there’s a number of like, you know, it was.(39:40) Marginally before, but like Virginia got rid of their slaves before, (39:42) like West Virginia and some other northern states, so it’s like it’s again, (39:46) it just comes down to this politics and narratives and it boils. (39:50) It’s it’s again, it’s this comic book stuff. (39:52) It’s like they wanted slavery.(39:53) Lincoln hated slavery. (39:54) He was just like a racial saint and cared, wanted freedom and equality for everybody. (39:58) And so he had to he had unfortunately, you know, he was (40:02) he didn’t want to have to start this war, but he had to do it for the greater good, etc.(40:05) And it’s like like Lincoln. (40:10) Lincoln like wanted the wage total. (40:13) He ordered like Sherman and his generals to wage total war against civilians (40:17) and be as brutal as possible, basically terrorists.(40:21) So there’s a good book. (40:23) It’s called Union Terror. (40:25) I forget who I forget.(40:26) I think it’s on the book list I posted on, but it’s all about. (40:29) Well, you get a screenshot with a bunch of books. (40:31) There are just like this burning down houses and cities and raping (40:35) and mass raping women, killing civilians and so on.(40:40) So they they were waging complete terroristic or. (40:46) An inhumane war as well. (40:47) So, again, the narrative falls apart very easily (40:50) once you just read some basic facts and like, OK, this is fairly undisputable.(40:54) Yeah, so the the argument would have been to say (40:59) recognize the states that wish to secede (41:03) and work together with them going forward. (41:06) That would that would have been the (41:08) that would have been the what? (41:09) Non-aggressive, I guess, way or non-aggression way to try to handle that. (41:13) Or well, I mean, I mean, Lincoln supported secession (41:16) when Texas was trying to secede and have their independence.(41:19) So you start to see it all. (41:21) You know, you start to see and you start to kind of see similarities (41:23) where it’s just like when it’s politically kind of. (41:29) Helpful or or at the time you support it (41:31) and then all of a sudden you’re against it, right? (41:33) So he was for Texas seceding, but not the states in this way.(41:39) And when he became president, of course, it all changes. Right. (41:41) And you see that with all the time now.(41:43) It’s like you’re against. (41:45) Whatever mass surveillance, and then all of a sudden (41:48) they’re voting for you on the campaign trail, you’re against mass surveillance (41:50) early on in your career. (41:52) Oh, you when Democrats are in charge, you’re against censorship (41:54) and you’re for free speech.(41:55) But when Trump’s in charge, all of this person criticizes Israel. (41:58) So we’re going to deport them. (42:00) You know what I mean? So it’s just like, oh, yeah, well, (42:02) I was going to mention that the Dan Bongino Kash Patel stuff today (42:05) is unbelievable.(42:06) It’s like watching Kash Patel for two years. (42:10) Talk about like on sitting there going, if I get in there, (42:13) it’s so blah, blah, blah and X, Y, Z. (42:16) And I know these things and I’m going to blah. (42:18) And then he goes, yeah, Jeffrey Epstein killed himself.(42:21) And then Dan Bongino saying that he goes, yeah, some guy close to me (42:24) tells me some Middle Eastern country, some country in the Middle East (42:27) is pulling the strings over there, but he won’t tell me which one it is. (42:32) Sure. He won’t tell me.(42:33) Yeah, sure, Dan. (42:34) And he also yeah, I’ve seen kills up. (42:36) He saw the files.He saw the files. (42:38) I wonder I wonder who is running the FBI because it’s pretty good. (42:42) Yeah, it’s funny.(42:43) It’s like they go around for two years. (42:45) The deep state better be afraid of us. (42:46) They’re trembling in their boots.(42:48) We’re coming for them. (42:49) And then all of a sudden it’s like, yeah, Epstein, it’s pretty cut and dry. (42:52) Epstein definitely 100 percent killed himself without a doubt.(42:54) I know a suicide. I’m an expert. (42:56) I know a suicide when I see one.(42:58) So it’s like, OK, all right. (43:00) You know, and that’s all we’ve got. (43:03) And that’s the whole thing.(43:04) We got our first question here. (43:05) Let me pull that up. (43:06) Go ahead and finish your point, Joel.(43:07) But I’ll pull that up in the meantime. (43:11) So we got to the Civil War victory by the North. (43:14) Make it now illegal to secede.(43:18) What about self-determination? (43:21) Well, yeah, we don’t have self-determination. (43:23) That was part of the. (43:26) That basically was the final kind of nail in the coffin for states rights.(43:30) And after that, basically anyone that even talks about (43:32) seceding is like looked as like a lunatic or a super radical extremist. (43:37) And for all of America, I mean, America was founded as, (43:40) you know, the free independent states and Thomas Jefferson. (43:44) Like there was secession crises, crises throughout history.(43:48) And Thomas Jefferson, like, yeah, you want to. (43:52) Anyway, where he’s like, yeah, let them go. (43:54) Like they want us to see.Let’s be peaceful about it. (43:55) Let them go. (43:56) Like if it’s if it’s better, if they think it’s better for their interests.(44:01) Yeah, let them secede. (44:03) But yeah, that was the final. (44:06) Lincoln’s war was the final nail in the coffin first (44:10) for kind of states rights and self-determination, (44:13) because you hear anyone talk.(44:15) I mean, you listen to kind of how the kind of mainstream (44:17) people talk about New Hampshire. (44:19) It’s like they’re pretty radical up there (44:22) and they are like New Hampshire first people, which is that’s obviously. (44:26) And yeah, they got the Free State Project up there and they got all those.(44:30) That’s how that’s how actually America used to be. (44:32) You know what I mean? (44:32) That’s how it should be. That’s how every state should be, I think so.(44:36) And I think, yeah, hopefully we start. (44:39) And that wouldn’t have been the worst thing in the world. (44:41) Like if come on, here’s became president, (44:42) that would just probably radicalize a lot of states more.(44:44) It’s like, no, we’re going to do. (44:45) We’re not going to go along with what you want. (44:47) We’re going to do what’s best for us.(44:52) But, you know, hopefully we’ll just over time, we’ll start seeing that. (44:55) I mean, look at Texas. (44:56) Texas is so cucked right now.(44:57) Like if Texas is going to be as cucked as they are, then (45:03) what hope does everyone else have? (45:05) And but New Hampshire is, I think, setting a good example. (45:07) But you see what Texas is like that one town. (45:11) They were trying to basically Greg Abbott said, like, (45:13) you can’t use that tax money in your own city that has to go to.(45:16) It’s basically against the law not to give your tax money to Israel. (45:20) So if you. Yeah, they wanted to decide how or have some say (45:22) how their tax money was going.(45:24) So the governor of the Lone Star State, the Republic of Texas (45:27) is saying that Hot Wheels, I mean, that’s that’s how the mighty have fallen. (45:32) Right. Yeah, it’s it is so interesting this this break, (45:35) because I met Bibi at like as a teenager because I’m from Philadelphia area (45:41) and I used to cater with a catering company (45:44) that was very prominent in the area.(45:46) We actually did Trump stuff and did like a bunch of like famous people, (45:50) big catering company owned by a Jewish person. (45:53) We met Bibi as prime minister and then not in that time. (45:57) And I remember this weird allure that was around.(45:59) Oh, it’s Bibi walking around or whatever. (46:01) And now I remember that growing up. (46:04) And now I see once that broke, I’m watching this guy.(46:08) And I’m like, what did I like? (46:10) How did I see any value in this guy? (46:14) It’s amazing. (46:15) Once you break from the from the programming. (46:17) Yeah, yeah.Once you see it, it’s just like, wow. (46:19) And like I said, I can talk about how I voted for Mitt Romney. (46:22) It’s just like, you know, is that really that’s like gullible? (46:25) Yeah.You know, but hey, we all we all learn from our past (46:29) and it kind of informs our positions now. (46:32) So and that’s the thing is like, I don’t understand the double, triple down (46:36) because the honesty, the genuineness in us making mistakes. (46:42) Has so much more value in a social sense (46:46) than, you know, than anything else.(46:49) Yeah, no. Yeah. (46:51) And then you can’t get better unless you make mistakes.(46:53) And if you’re honest, you learn from them and you say, OK, yeah, (46:56) that was stupid or silly me. (46:59) Then you become better for it. (47:02) Yeah, for sure.(47:03) So very quickly, Viva Texas, Jason Fry talks about Texas (47:07) having that nice divorce. (47:08) So Jason Fry’s makes knives and he talks about divorce. (47:13) So it’s kind of cool.Good stuff. (47:15) So, Joel, what else we got, man? (47:17) Anything else you want to talk about today? (47:21) I can keep hammering on Lincoln if you want to, whatever you want. (47:24) Let’s do that.Let’s do that. (47:26) Before we do that today, there was some news. (47:30) There was news that Scott Adams (47:34) has the same type of cancer that Joe Biden was diagnosed with.(47:38) And he said he doesn’t know if he’s going to make it through the summer (47:41) or how he’s going to feel. (47:42) And he shared that. (47:44) So thoughts and prayers with Scott Adams.(47:46) I know there’s a lot of people that are in the in the chat right now (47:49) that follow that follow or listen to Scott Adams. (47:52) So we wish him the best. (47:54) Yeah, I wish him the best.(47:55) I’m not super familiar with. (47:57) I, of course, you know, a little bit with Dilbert, but not not since then. (48:00) But yeah, all the best.(48:02) I hope he hopefully, you know, one of his one of his interesting things was (48:09) that he kind of called the Trump thing. (48:11) He said Trump was going to win in 2016 to a lot of people’s like chagrin. (48:16) They were like, no way is that happening? (48:17) You know, that’s not happening, blah, blah, blah.(48:19) And then it did. (48:20) So he did kind of call that, which was unique. (48:24) Not a lot of people did.(48:26) Yeah, he’s got some interesting insights. (48:27) And yeah, you know, hopefully, you know, it’s it’s terrible news. (48:33) Yeah, we do thoughts and prayers.(48:34) So now let’s get let’s get away from that. (48:36) Let’s go back to the guy, the guy in the theater with the hat. (48:39) All right, let’s let’s bash on Lincoln some more.(48:43) So once again, all I heard was it’s honest, a nice guy, whatever. (48:47) One of the weird things I heard. (48:48) I don’t know if you ever heard this.(48:50) Milton Bradley used to make these pocket games for the people in the Civil War. (48:55) That was like how he got famous. (48:57) But he also made a portrait.(48:59) He used to be a portrait here or something. (49:01) And he made like a lithograph, a sketch of Lincoln without the beard. (49:06) Really? And then some eight year old told him (49:09) that he would look more honest with the beard.(49:11) So he grew the beard. (49:12) And then Milton Bradley said, everyone said, this isn’t the president anymore. (49:16) They asked for their money back and he went bankrupt.(49:18) Have you ever heard that story? (49:19) No, I don’t. (49:21) I’ve heard I’ve heard about the kid telling him to grow a beard. (49:24) Yeah, I’ve heard that, but I hadn’t heard the rest of it.(49:27) Yeah. So Milton Bradley. (49:28) Think about the honesty of a of a person in business back then.(49:33) This guy sold lithographs of Abe Lincoln without a beard. (49:36) He grows out the beard and his customers demand their money back (49:40) because it doesn’t look like the president anymore. (49:42) And he gives it back to them.(49:44) Yeah. And he ended up going bankrupt for it. (49:46) Like that’s that’s honest.(49:48) That’s it. That’s pretty good. Yeah.(49:50) So anyway, and then Milton Bradley, obviously, we know the video (49:53) or the games for like Monopoly and all the other board games and whatnot. (49:57) So they bounce back an interesting, interesting stuff. (49:59) So what what what else? (50:02) Let’s talk about habeas corpus, because Trump talked a little bit about this.(50:09) And he talked, you know, he sends this guy without due process to to (50:14) was El Salvador. (50:15) Now we can say what we want or equity is Ecuador, El Salvador. (50:21) I get my El Salvador, I don’t remember.(50:24) Yeah, I think it’s El Salvador anyway. (50:26) We talk about due process, but due process is just for being a human being. (50:31) You should have due process.(50:32) That’s how the founders seem to have to have seen this. (50:35) This doubling down on this seems to be weird. (50:37) But like the thing when he said homegrown, did you hear the comment (50:42) about homegrown’s? (50:45) I don’t think so.(50:47) So basically, he’s like, I’m going to do this to the homegrown’s next. (50:50) And you’re just like alarm bells go off. (50:53) You know, going, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, hold on.(50:55) You’re telling me that if I dissent as an American, (50:59) you’re just going to off with me. (51:02) And I know it’s Trump. (51:03) I know it’s rhetoric, but like there are some dangerous things.(51:06) And I’m not I’m not against free speech. (51:08) But like when the leader of the free world starts talking like that, (51:11) my radar does kind of perk up a little bit. (51:14) Yeah, it’s funny.(51:15) I heard a lot of people talking about how it’s like, OK, well, due process (51:18) doesn’t apply to illegal immigrants or whatever, et cetera, (51:21) or someone of a certain legal status or citizen. (51:25) But it’s just funny. (51:25) All those same people will say like.(51:28) OK, all rights come from God, you know what I mean, our right to free speech (51:32) and self-defense and everything else, all our rights, they come from God. (51:37) So if they come from God, then I would think they would apply (51:41) just to be consistent, they would apply to every person. (51:45) Right.They’re not just God just designated us in this country. (51:49) So they came. (51:50) So so if they come from government, then I guess you can make the argument (51:53) that it’s like, well, that person is not a citizen.(51:56) All rights and permissions come from the government. (51:58) So they’re not a legal citizen. (52:00) But it’s like if you’re saying our rights come from God, (52:03) then illegal immigrants and those same people will say like, (52:06) of course, legal immigrants should not be able to own firearms.(52:09) That’s crazy. They’re not. (52:10) But it’s like, oh, OK, I thought the Second Amendment, (52:12) I thought our rights are inherent in nature.(52:14) And that’s the point of the Constitution. (52:16) It’s just kind of (52:18) it was written down for the first time. (52:20) We’re going to be inherent rights that are from God in nature (52:23) is being put down on this document.(52:26) So if that’s the case, if it’s inherent in nature, (52:28) then why does it just apply to us like America? (52:32) So I don’t know. (52:33) That’s just always weird one to me. (52:34) But I have seen the habeas corpus stuff and and that’s why (52:38) we have to worship Abraham Lincoln.(52:40) That’s why we have to worship a little tyrant, (52:45) because we can just (52:49) drop his name and then we have the green light to do. (52:52) The government can do whatever they want. (52:53) They can suspend habeas corpus again.(52:55) They can tell people being a Lincoln. (52:58) It’s like being like, you know what I mean? (53:01) So it’s just like, right, that’s basically what it is. (53:04) So so share.(53:06) Can you share a little bit about what habeas corpus is and like what (53:09) where the violations take place and how those things get broken (53:12) just in a 50000 foot level? (53:14) Well, it’s just like you’re like, you don’t you’re not getting a right (53:17) to a free trial, all your civil rights basically suspended. (53:19) And even though, you know, technically, which I’m not OK, (53:23) I’m not a big like Constitution guy, like. (53:27) We can get into that another time, but I’m not for Constitution says this.(53:30) We have to do everything by the Constitution. That’s not me. (53:32) But anyway, for those who are, it’s like (53:38) like only like I guess Congress can suspend habeas.(53:41) So Lincoln just kind of unilaterally did it. (53:43) And even the Supreme Court chief justice of the Supreme Court, Taney. (53:49) Was like, yeah, that’s that’s unconscionable.(53:51) You can’t do that. And Lincoln did it anyway. (53:53) And even according to some people, (53:56) I believe actually there’s a book about the U.S. (53:59) marshals and they kind of recorded that Lincoln had actually issued (54:03) an arrest warrant for the Supreme (54:06) Court, the chief justice of the Supreme Court.(54:09) Because Taney was saying like, oh, that’s unconstitutional. (54:12) You can’t do that. (54:13) And Lincoln had issued an arrest warrant for him.(54:16) So imagine Trump issuing an arrest warrant for the chief justice (54:18) of the Supreme Court because he didn’t like what he said. (54:21) The marshals didn’t enforce it or carry it out. (54:23) But I believe that order was issued initially.(54:26) So, you know, so it’s been habeas corpus. (54:28) And then you can, you know, shut down any dissident newspaper. (54:31) You can jail.(54:33) Hundreds and thousands of people for. (54:37) Merely saying, well, we don’t need this war and just calling that (54:39) and then you invoke national emergency and crisis. (54:43) So it’s a war.Oh, you’re siding with the enemy. (54:46) You’re with us or it’s basically like (54:48) you’re with us or you’re at the terrorists, essentially. (54:50) It’s like, right.(54:51) Well, and the most and the most recent example would probably be (54:55) Japanese-Americans in World War Two in camps. (54:58) Would that be the closest, most recent example of America (55:02) kind of. You know, moving citizens out and putting them aside and.(55:08) Well, I guess there hasn’t been. (55:10) Yeah, I guess that was. (55:12) I guess there’s some overlap there to some degree.(55:16) But at least as far as the rhetoric goes, you see that with every war. (55:19) Essentially, it’s like, oh, right. (55:21) Yeah, you’re with us or you’re with the terrorists.(55:22) And then so like these colleges, it’s like, oh, you’re not with. (55:26) You have students saying protesting Israel. (55:29) So you’re with you’re a terrorist sympathizer, essentially.(55:31) So now we’re going to take away that you’re going to punish you in this way. (55:35) Right. So I love that.(55:36) A criticism of a nation state, a criticism of a nation state (55:41) equals, you know, equals pro-terrorism rhetoric. (55:44) Like, well, how do you make that jump, people? (55:47) How do you it’s and that’s politics, right? (55:49) So that was in Lincoln. (55:51) It’s like, OK, so you’re you don’t think we need to fight this bloody war.(55:55) So you must be with the rebels and you’re you’re you’re a traitor to the union. (56:00) So we’re going to. (56:01) So there was Francis Scott Key’s grandson.(56:06) Of course, Francis Scott Key wrote Star Spangled Banner. Right. (56:10) His grandson, his name, his name was Frankie Howard, (56:13) and he was like a newspaper editor in Baltimore.(56:16) And he wrote a basically like scathing like articles about Lincoln (56:23) and his paper and criticizing the regime and some of the things (56:26) they were doing in the war and all this kind of stuff. (56:28) And so Lincoln had him arrested. (56:30) He wrote about it.(56:31) It’s called 14 Months in American Bastille’s. (56:33) And Lincoln had him thrown in the Fort McHenry, ironically. (56:36) So and he and Frankie Howard documents it.(56:40) And it’s basically like I’m just at my house and these (56:43) basic police officers show up in the middle of the night and take me away. (56:45) No trial, no nothing. (56:46) It’s like, oh, you’re a traitor.(56:49) So he’s thrown in the dungeon. (56:51) And so that’s what they were doing, everybody. (56:53) And he deported the congressman and he they were shutting down newspapers.(56:58) That were critical. (56:59) It’s crazy. (57:00) It’s crazy, because I would we’d argue one one is one too many.Right. (57:04) Because it’s just any trample of the liberty. (57:06) Right.And then just having conversation like talking to pro-Lincoln people. (57:10) Well, they’ll say, like, well, it’s you know, it’s complicated. (57:12) There was a war going on.(57:13) It was a national emergency. (57:15) And it’s like really not complicated. (57:17) It’s you either you either have rights or you don’t.(57:20) So when it comes to Lincoln and his and his kind of legacy, all the like these. (57:27) Super like pro-Constitution, quote unquote, pro-liberty, like right wing people. (57:32) There’s all sorts of justification.(57:33) Well, it was a war. (57:34) He had he had to do that. (57:36) You know, it’s a national crisis.(57:39) So it’s like, OK, like either you have free speech or you don’t have free speech. (57:43) You either have the right to bear arms or you don’t. (57:44) It doesn’t matter really who the president is.(57:47) Doesn’t and even after the fact, the Supreme Court ruled like, yeah, (57:50) if you don’t have rights during wartime, then you don’t have ever have rights, (57:54) which is true. (57:55) But they didn’t come to that conclusion until after, you know, like with covid. (58:00) It’s like, you know, that of course, vaccines and lockdowns, (58:04) those are wrong and unconstitutional.(58:05) It’s like, well, where were you when this was all going on? (58:08) Well, bombing of Dresden, right? (58:10) Yeah. You know, way. (58:11) Oh, John McCain on his deathbed is against the Iraq war.(58:15) It’s like, give me a break. Like, sorry. (58:16) Like when it mattered, you were nowhere to be found.(58:19) You were on the other side pushing this evil. (58:22) So that’s why we must worship Abraham Lincoln. (58:24) So that way we can that way the federal government can just whatever (58:28) whatever they deem.(58:30) And it’s just completely arbitrary, like whatever they deem a national emergency. (58:34) And then you can pull all the stops and all these emergency powers (58:37) and you can do whatever you want. (58:38) You just have to convince a bunch of people that you have a good enough reason.(58:42) So the warships of Syop in a weird way. (58:44) I mean, look, there’s not there is certainly nothing wrong with the heroism (58:48) of certain people and and having these stories. (58:50) I mean, we live through narrative, right? (58:52) But, you know, Lincoln being perfect.(58:56) Honest Abe is like to your point is like, well, if Abraham did it, (58:59) then we can all do it right. (59:01) Like it’s almost like softening us up. (59:04) Well, you just you just can just convince people that.(59:08) Again, it just classic political narratives, it’s like completely tribal. (59:13) It’s like we’re the good guys, they’re the evil bad guys. (59:17) And probably the most honorable man (59:22) in that was probably Robert E. (59:23) Lee and a lot of the Stonewall, like Robert Lee is probably the most honorable man, (59:27) like much more honorable and respectful person than Abraham Lincoln.(59:30) If we’re going to build this and I’m not like necessarily build (59:34) statues of everybody or put up (59:38) monuments or definitely temples because Lincoln’s is a temple. (59:41) And it’s it’s it’s good to honor great people in history. (59:46) And to the extent we’re going to do that, it should be people like Robert E. (59:48) Lee and not Abraham Lincoln, not (59:53) General Sherman, not Ulysses S. (59:56) Grant.And what about it? (59:58) About Lee, what did it was it the character of the man? (1:00:02) Well, you’re just an honorable, god fearing man and a good general. (1:00:05) And he was fighting for his state of Virginia because it was there’s a lot more. (1:00:11) He was like a like Lincoln, like invaded Virginia.(1:00:14) So a lot of he probably wouldn’t necessarily even been fighting the war. (1:00:18) It wasn’t like he is. (1:00:19) The narrative is like you’re a Confederate general.(1:00:21) So he must have been like pro slavery. (1:00:23) Like everyone in the South wanted slaves and Lincoln wanted to get rid of the slaves. (1:00:29) Which is funny, because (1:00:32) when Lincoln issued the Emancipation Proclamation.(1:00:35) If you read it, it’s specifically number one, it doesn’t free any slaves in the north. (1:00:42) Which that doesn’t get talked about for some reason. (1:00:44) But you see a lot of like the north runs it.(1:00:47) Why would you like it’s like, OK, and then number two (1:00:51) in the Emancipation Proclamation, and it excludes all these areas. (1:00:57) In the South that are under union control from the proclamation applying to them, (1:01:01) so it’s like it only freed slaves in the parts of the country (1:01:06) the Union Army did not control, so parts of the South that the Union Army (1:01:09) controlled that had slaves, the Emancipation Proclamation did not apply to them. (1:01:15) So and even and even William Seward, Lincoln Secretary of State, (1:01:18) he was kind of being sarcastic.(1:01:20) He said something along the lines of we show our sympathy with the slave (1:01:24) by freeing them where we cannot reach them and leaving them in bondage (1:01:28) when we could set them free. (1:01:29) So basically, like he knew and like the newspapers are making fun of Lincoln. (1:01:33) It’s like you’re only freeing people in areas not under your control, (1:01:37) but in areas that you control to have slaves, you’re not freeing them.(1:01:40) Like, oh, I thought you were like anti-slavery. (1:01:42) Like, what is that all about? That makes no sense. (1:01:44) So so the Emancipation Proclamation was keeping it together, (1:01:48) holding it, the control, the overreach, the, you know, (1:01:51) the umbrella kind of method that he was using.(1:01:55) Yeah, yeah. That’s that’s part of it. (1:01:57) You keep the union together.(1:01:58) It’s like, but I mean. (1:02:01) Yeah, just in the same way, and again, I’ve seen this meme a lot. (1:02:04) I don’t know who said it, but basically like (1:02:10) like an abusive husband who like keeps his wife, (1:02:12) whose wife’s trying to leave.(1:02:13) And he keeps beating her and beating her. (1:02:15) And he’s like, I’m out of here. (1:02:17) And, you know, he kind of beats her in the submission (1:02:19) and says, I’ll kill you if you leave.(1:02:21) You know, and so I kept my marriage together. (1:02:23) You know what I mean? (1:02:23) It’s like, did you really? (1:02:25) Right. Totally.Exactly. Right. (1:02:26) Of course, then.(1:02:28) And I’m the one who wanted this. (1:02:30) I mean, I kept it kind of. (1:02:32) So let’s go back.(1:02:34) Our good friend, Thane, a good friend of the show. (1:02:38) He mentioned it earlier. (1:02:39) Obviously, the flag in the background, state of zeal.(1:02:42) Can you like maybe expound a little bit about state of zeal? (1:02:47) Sure. I was going to start with infinite zeal. (1:02:49) So infinite zeal comes from a verse in Romans 12, 11.(1:02:54) It says never be lacking in zeal, but be fervent in spirit. (1:02:57) So that kind of just speaks to me. (1:02:58) It just kind of always be.(1:03:02) And that’s where infinite zeal comes from, never be lacking in zeal. (1:03:04) So it’s just kind of like always (1:03:07) be kind of never kind of lose your passion and your fire (1:03:10) and what you’re doing, what you believe in. (1:03:11) And, you know, nothing’s going to be easy and there’s a lot of adversity, (1:03:14) but you just got to keep going.(1:03:15) And that’s kind of the idea behind it. (1:03:16) So state of zeal is kind of like a play on words in a way. (1:03:20) It’s like.(1:03:21) Kind of like a frame of mind in one way, like state of zeal, (1:03:25) that’s just kind of where your head space is at and also (1:03:28) a plan of words being like a physical. (1:03:30) It’s not a physical state, but it’s just kind of like in my bio (1:03:33) and my header on my profile. (1:03:35) I had the state of zeal flag and above the American flag.(1:03:38) So it’s basically like. (1:03:41) Pro individual. (1:03:44) Kind of never lose your passion, your goals and what you’re doing (1:03:46) and put yourself and your family first, I mean, I’m not saying be selfish, (1:03:49) but you know what I mean? (1:03:50) It’s like at the end of the day, like that, that’s what I’m motivated by.(1:03:56) So it’s like America’s second need my family community first. (1:04:00) So that’s just kind of the idea behind it, just a little play on words. (1:04:04) So also, yeah, just kind of your frame of mind and motivation and also (1:04:11) just prioritizing your community.(1:04:12) I’m I’m for the individual. (1:04:15) So that’s that’s kind of the idea behind it. (1:04:17) Very cool.(1:04:18) The infinite. (1:04:20) Do you do you mind if I ask about your faith and how you (1:04:23) how you came that where you just grew up with it (1:04:26) because you mentioned Christian school and stuff, (1:04:28) or did you actually not have faith and then came to it? (1:04:32) How did you. (1:04:32) Yeah, I grew up, I’m a Christian, I mean, I grew up in a very, (1:04:38) I guess, I don’t know if evangelical, it’s more kind of conservative, (1:04:43) like evangelical, like Christian Zionist.(1:04:45) So that’s how I grew up, like in the Christians, either all the kind of (1:04:48) like my cock, you know, my cock could be. (1:04:50) Yeah. Yeah.OK. (1:04:51) So basically my cock could be like he and he’s like he’s like a like a bad (1:04:58) Baptist, I guess, or evangelical Christian. (1:05:00) So like that’s his kind of theology and belief system is what I grew up in.(1:05:04) Now, I’ve since departed from like the Christian Zionism part of it, (1:05:08) and I’ve rejected that. (1:05:09) I don’t think that’s biblical. I think that’s right.(1:05:13) And that’s, you know, to get into it another day. (1:05:15) But I am still a Christian at the end of the day. (1:05:18) And so that’s why I kind of that verse just kind of.(1:05:22) Kind of hit me in a way, other verses didn’t. (1:05:24) So I just decided to go with it. (1:05:27) I like it.(1:05:29) I like it. So. (1:05:30) All righty.(1:05:31) So what else we got about the Lincoln, the good old Lankster? (1:05:35) Anything else he did or anything else? (1:05:37) Anybody else in that era you want to talk about? (1:05:40) It was honorable. (1:05:40) Here’s one thing I’ve since. (1:05:45) Maybe modified in my view of Lincoln.(1:05:48) So Lincoln and OK, let me just preface this because this might get (1:05:51) I don’t want to get in any trouble. (1:05:53) I can Lincoln. (1:05:54) OK, so for people, a lot of people like Abraham Lincoln.(1:05:58) And it’s for literally reasons that are made up. (1:06:01) It just based on the propaganda, which we’ve discussed. (1:06:04) OK, then there’s people that are more of like the I don’t maybe (1:06:07) don’t want to say the white nationalists.(1:06:10) Maybe there are white nationalists, but they like Lincoln. (1:06:13) For like the real reasons, like for who he actually was, (1:06:16) like the reasons I don’t like Lincoln. (1:06:17) So I respect that more to a degree because I actually understand who Lincoln was.(1:06:21) Whereas most of you may seem like conservative people, like (1:06:23) they think all the stuff about Lincoln, that’s just BS. (1:06:26) That’s not even just propaganda. (1:06:27) So, for example, like Lincoln had very, you know, (1:06:31) believe in a central, very strong central government.(1:06:33) So a lot of those guys, they like the strong central government, (1:06:37) high tariffs, protectionist tariffs, and like he wanted to be a white country. (1:06:43) So he set up he set up a colony in Liberia and other places. (1:06:47) And the plan was to is gradual (1:06:51) emancipation and deportation, basically, like he was going to deport all that.(1:06:54) And it’s also interesting that some a lot of the abolitionists (1:06:58) and why a lot of people oppose the expansion of slavery. (1:07:00) It wasn’t like we we hate slavery. (1:07:03) It’s just terrible, indescribable and inhumane.(1:07:05) It’s like a lot of like they didn’t want to live in the same communities as black. (1:07:10) They wanted to be white. (1:07:11) You know what I mean? (1:07:11) There was like political reasons, like it wasn’t like they thought (1:07:14) it was like the super important thing necessarily.(1:07:16) Some did, but many of them were like, we don’t look. (1:07:19) I mean, community is what it was back then. (1:07:20) It was tribalism.(1:07:22) It was all community. (1:07:23) So it was based on the great book. (1:07:25) It’s called The Frontier Against Slavery.(1:07:27) And so it’s just interesting some of the motivations (1:07:29) why people didn’t want slavery in the frontier. (1:07:31) And it’s not necessarily a moral crusade. (1:07:33) You know what I mean? (1:07:33) It was like economic and other things.(1:07:36) So anyway, he set up all he set up a (1:07:40) colony in Liberia and other places and to deport freed slaves (1:07:44) because he wanted to be white country. (1:07:45) And he’s and he said many times in debates and throughout his life, like, (1:07:50) you know, we can’t live together. (1:07:52) We’re too different.(1:07:52) Yeah, the other has to be we need to be separate. (1:07:56) So it was definitely not like a racial saying. (1:07:58) But anyway, so.(1:08:01) But I kind of to a degree, like, so all these people, (1:08:04) we starting to see the calls for reparations, like people, (1:08:07) like we want a 10 trillion dollar reparations bill. (1:08:10) And every like descendant of a slave or black person (1:08:12) needs to get like a billion dollars in reparations. (1:08:14) Everyone owes us.(1:08:16) So basically, my thing is, like, if you’re like a race hustler, (1:08:19) like Al Sharpton or even Max Kendi or all these people (1:08:24) are calling for reparations, like. (1:08:27) We should like you can you can support you. (1:08:30) How about that? (1:08:30) Like, we’re so racist.(1:08:31) If you like, we’re the most racist people on Earth, make me have all this. (1:08:34) We’ll give you as much money and land as you want to go live in Liberia (1:08:37) or something. You know what I mean? (1:08:38) So it’s like if you’re going to be one of those like race grifter hustlers, (1:08:43) I’d be fine with, like, setting up like a colony for those people.(1:08:46) Like, yeah, you want reparations fund. (1:08:47) There’s a million dollars and 100 acres in in some random place. (1:08:52) And you can go live there and happily ever after.Good riddance. (1:08:55) So that’s in one way, like, you know, not not, you know, (1:08:58) I’m not saying just to support everyone, but but yeah, he he he wasn’t a. (1:09:04) Wasn’t like a racial saint or anything like he. (1:09:07) If he thought slaves were inferior (1:09:09) and he said that many, many times is on the record.(1:09:15) And that’s the interesting thing. (1:09:16) When we when we talk about speech, that’s what’s really great. (1:09:18) Like you talk about nationalists.(1:09:20) It’s like if you bury their ability to express it that way, (1:09:25) it will get suppressed and will come up in very worse ways later. (1:09:29) It will bubble up like that’s honestly how I feel. (1:09:32) I think people’s ability to express themselves is like a pressure valve (1:09:36) that allows a lot of that to subside without getting to physical violence.(1:09:43) Yeah. And if you’re and if you’re so 100 percent convinced that you’re right (1:09:45) and the other person’s 100 percent factually wrong. (1:09:48) And, you know, I would think you would be more than happy (1:09:50) to have a discussion and to prove that versus, (1:09:54) you know, it’s you can’t say anything at all.(1:09:56) That’s not allowed. (1:09:57) That that thought is not allowed to have that thought in your head. (1:10:00) So that goes literally everything like you should.(1:10:03) Every historical narrative should be questioned and thoroughly scrutinized. (1:10:06) I’m not saying just say whatever just to be an edgelord or whatever. (1:10:11) But it’s like if you have legit, if there’s legitimate, you know, (1:10:14) you can make an honest case for it.(1:10:16) It doesn’t matter what it is. (1:10:17) I don’t care what were to Churchill, Hitler, the Holocaust. (1:10:20) Like I’m not saying you’re just trying to piss everybody off, (1:10:23) but it’s like there’s legitimate questions to be asked and they should be asked.(1:10:27) And maybe I’m wrong. (1:10:28) So if I’m 100 percent wrong (1:10:31) and what I believe is propagandized is propaganda, (1:10:34) then please show me how that’s the case. (1:10:36) But they don’t do that.(1:10:38) It’s shut it down. (1:10:39) You’re a terrible person. (1:10:40) Anti-Semite, neoconfederate, whatever name they want throughout.(1:10:43) It’s like, you know, (1:10:45) and then it’s interesting. (1:10:47) And then they’ll and then they’ll accuse you of revisionist history. (1:10:50) And you’re like, no, you’re just shaming it.(1:10:53) You’re coloring it in. (1:10:54) You’re you’re adding context, texture. (1:10:57) You’re adding things that just were hidden to complete the story.(1:11:02) Like, you know, it’s it’s nice to know that people are fallible, isn’t it? (1:11:07) A little bit than these people being perfect because they’re not. (1:11:10) No one’s perfect. (1:11:12) No, no one is.(1:11:12) And, you know, like I don’t know everything, but it’s just like, yeah, (1:11:18) there’s just certain things that are like just because. (1:11:26) You know, I don’t know, there’s a different (1:11:29) dissident or like revisionist, but it’s not even like revisionism, (1:11:32) it’s just like you’re leaving out facts, like it’s just like you’re omitting (1:11:37) certain very relevant and important parts of the story. (1:11:42) So let’s talk about those.(1:11:43) Let’s talk about those things you like you’re not discussing. (1:11:48) And why can’t we do that? (1:11:50) So just like these pejoratives, like revisionist and this and whatever. (1:11:54) Nia, they call you like, they’ll say (1:11:58) like a pseudo historian or something.(1:12:01) But it’s like, OK, so just but just show me like what’s factually incorrect. (1:12:04) Like he like literally Lincoln did all these things. (1:12:08) Like so like you either believe in rights or you don’t, (1:12:11) like it’s either applies at all times or they only apply (1:12:13) when the president of the government says they apply.(1:12:15) So that’s the case. And we have privileges. (1:12:17) So I don’t know, it just let’s just I just try to be consistent.(1:12:21) I mean, I know you try to be consistent. (1:12:22) And that’s just the thing with like libertarians and stuff. (1:12:26) Small L libertarian, I guess.(1:12:29) They’re just the most consistent like pro-life. (1:12:33) It’s OK. Yeah, abortion is wrong.(1:12:35) Yes. Also, dropping bombs on kids is wrong. (1:12:39) Like that’s wrong, too.You know what I mean? (1:12:42) You can be pro-life across the board. (1:12:45) Yeah, like either. (1:12:46) Like what does that even what does pro-life even mean then? (1:12:49) Because you’re not pro-life, you’re just anti-abortion.(1:12:51) OK, so it’s a political issue. (1:12:52) You’re not consistently you tell me. (1:12:54) And that’s the thing with like the growing up in.(1:12:58) The Christian Zionism and stuff, it’s just like, OK, so we’re all taught (1:13:02) you’re you’re teaching me that we’re all made in the image of God, et cetera. (1:13:04) And I believe that. (1:13:06) But for some reason.(1:13:08) These people over here in the Middle East are all like these kids (1:13:11) are all savages, descendants of demons, they all need to die. (1:13:14) So it’s I mean, it’s a weird is that where does this? (1:13:19) Are they not there? (1:13:20) Are they are they not made in the image of you know what I mean? (1:13:22) So, right. Yeah, that kind of stuff.(1:13:24) And then and then I do find (1:13:28) I find that I find this self the self-acknowledged chosen people (1:13:34) very similar to the master race. (1:13:36) Like, I’m sorry, I’m sorry. (1:13:38) It just I understand the chosen was to struggle or whatever.(1:13:41) But like the way it’s used now is in a very elitist better than. (1:13:47) Yeah. And that’s a whole nother thing about like (1:13:50) Christian Zionism and how that all came about and all that kind of thing.(1:13:54) And and it took me over 20 years (1:13:59) before I really like this, is there some that part of it? (1:14:01) Because I used to when I was even 2016, I was like, yeah, we should support Israel. (1:14:05) That’s where we’re good Christians and stuff. (1:14:07) And now I’m a little bit older and I read, you know, studied more.(1:14:10) And it’s like, yeah, the Bible really doesn’t say like we’re supposed to be (1:14:13) supporting, you know, supporting Israel means we have to send them all our money (1:14:17) and a bunch of bombs to go and we have to fight wars for them. (1:14:20) Like what? How does that make sense? (1:14:22) That’s kind of funny. Yeah.(1:14:23) I mean, Christianity, Jesus was kind of socialist. (1:14:28) I mean, he was a turn the other cheek. (1:14:30) Gentle grace offer like very odd.(1:14:33) Like that. It’s Christian is very conservative. (1:14:37) Yet Jesus.(1:14:38) I mean, in the time wouldn’t have been a conservative mind in that. (1:14:42) It would have very radical. (1:14:43) I would have thought in that way, that generosity and that kindness and that.(1:14:48) Yeah, I mean, it’s definitely the best example in it. (1:14:50) But it’s just yeah, I don’t know. (1:14:55) I mean, I don’t know.(1:14:57) It’s a lot of it doesn’t make sense to me. (1:15:00) And I’m just like, honestly, it’s like if if I if someone would just answer. (1:15:05) You know.(1:15:07) Answer a question or provide some (1:15:08) just back up your argument versus just name calling, it’d be like then (1:15:12) maybe you might get somewhere. (1:15:14) Maybe I’m missing something, you know what I mean? (1:15:15) But when you when you if someone disagrees and you and with you (1:15:19) and instead of like, OK, we have a disagreement, OK, what do we agree on? (1:15:22) OK, we both agree the X, Y and Z. (1:15:24) And then you can kind of go from there on your discussion. (1:15:26) But if it’s like, oh, you disagree with me, you’re that you’re this evil person.(1:15:31) And it’s like, well, we’re. (1:15:33) Like, you don’t really want to know the truth. (1:15:35) You’re just people.(1:15:36) Again, it’s just the more tribalism and stuff and (1:15:41) and there’s a couple of like right now, open borders, intellectual property. (1:15:45) I’m having a couple ones where I’m going, what am I missing? (1:15:48) Because I’m not feeling the same way people I look toward (1:15:52) feel about it or something. (1:15:54) And it’s not like they’re wrong.(1:15:55) I’m going, what I’m wondering, where am I at least using a North Star (1:15:59) some sort to start right and then adjust from there? (1:16:04) Yeah, I don’t know. (1:16:05) It’s but at the end of the day, I got something in my eye. (1:16:09) I don’t know what it is at the end of the day.(1:16:12) I mean, this is still the best time in history to be alive. (1:16:14) I mean, it’s just not a dull moment. (1:16:18) And I mean, it’s just a lot easier to.(1:16:21) It’s just a lot easier to find out things that are true, like. (1:16:24) Fifty years ago, what I’ve been able to come across, (1:16:27) I like all this quote unquote revisionist stuff about Lincoln or any other historical (1:16:31) like, where would I even find that? (1:16:33) You know what I mean? (1:16:34) Like you will say the Internet did open up just a plethora of information, (1:16:38) more to sift through, but it’s more out there, too. (1:16:42) Yeah.Right. (1:16:43) And if you have a discerning eye and just don’t get sucked in everything, (1:16:46) I think you can sift through it. (1:16:48) Yeah.If you’re just honestly trying to find out what happened (1:16:51) and be objective and honest and just find truth. (1:16:57) Then, yeah, I mean, if some people have agendas (1:16:59) and they’re going to kind of cherry pick stuff, so I try to be careful, (1:17:02) like not to just like cherry pick one or two things, (1:17:03) but just trying to find a theme across the board, like it’s not like link. (1:17:07) Like you can do that with any president.(1:17:08) You can find one isolated thing. (1:17:09) It’s like, oh, look, you did this. (1:17:11) But like with someone like Lincoln or whatever, Reagan, any other Bush, (1:17:15) you can just find just a trend repeated.(1:17:19) OK, you know, you shut down over 100 newspapers (1:17:21) and you jailed like 10,000 people for like dissent, (1:17:25) like just clear speech violations. (1:17:27) Yeah, that’s not like a one off like, OK, you saw whatever one bad policy (1:17:31) or one bad executive order, right? (1:17:33) Maybe you can be a little forgiving in that case. (1:17:40) So I don’t know, I’m still trying to learn more, more and more.(1:17:43) And I know it’s true because, you know, I’ve learned stuff every day. (1:17:48) I don’t know everything. (1:17:49) That’s the question from Jason.(1:17:51) How do we know it’s true about old age? (1:17:53) So Jason came in from Connecticut. (1:17:55) He’s chiming in. Thanks for joining us, Jason.(1:17:57) Thank you, everyone, for joining us today. (1:17:59) We’ve got Joel Infinite Zeal at underscore Infinite Zeal (1:18:03) state of zeal with us today. (1:18:05) He’s talking about Lincoln.(1:18:06) We’re just talking about general stuff, just shooting, shooting the stuff, (1:18:10) shooting the crap. (1:18:11) Yeah. So how do we know it’s true and not true? (1:18:14) I don’t know, man.(1:18:15) It’s kind of I know it’s like, oh, I mean, but that’s where the best historians (1:18:19) like I was talking about. (1:18:23) With David Irving, it’s like he just he’s using primary sources, (1:18:26) so if you start reading about Lincoln, like even Tom Vilento’s book, (1:18:29) Lincoln Unmasked, that’s this is a good primer. (1:18:32) This is probably this was, I think, the first book on Lincoln I read.(1:18:36) And then, you know, of course, he has all his references and stuff. (1:18:39) You can go down the rabbit hole and get to all the primary sources. (1:18:42) So you’re just reading, you know, like, for example, (1:18:45) he asked, how do you know what about Lincoln is true? (1:18:47) It’s like, OK, well, we’re taught Lincoln was like basically like hated slavery.(1:18:51) He just thought everyone was equal. (1:18:53) And, you know, this one freedom and liberty for all mankind. Right.(1:18:56) OK, then. So it’s like, OK, I I’m reading some of his speeches, (1:19:00) you know, and I’m reading some of the things that he he did. (1:19:03) I’m like, that’s not lining up with what I’m taught about him.(1:19:07) Right. I mean, I’m taught like Lincoln. (1:19:08) He didn’t really want to have to start to start the war.(1:19:11) He had to then slavery. (1:19:12) You know, it was it was it was not it was a nightmare. (1:19:15) You know, and it had to be done (1:19:17) because we couldn’t have got rid of slavery any other way.(1:19:20) OK, well, number one, like everywhere else in the world, (1:19:22) got rid of slavery without a war. (1:19:24) Number two, Lincoln gave them a constitutional guarantee (1:19:26) that they would he would never take away their slaves. (1:19:29) Three, he said a whole bunch of like stuff (1:19:31) that would be considered white supremacist today.(1:19:33) So it’s like you’re telling me this about him. (1:19:35) And here’s his own words. (1:19:37) Here’s what the newspaper said about him.(1:19:39) Here’s what people in his own regime said about him. (1:19:42) And it contradicts your narrative. (1:19:45) And it’s just not like I’m making it sound like some coup, whatever.(1:19:47) It’s just like, OK, this is actual letter. (1:19:49) I can write this is actual speech from him. (1:19:51) Right.It’s like it’s like Dillard. (1:19:53) I was like the Horton for Abe Lincoln, (1:19:56) because like Scott Horton’s book provoked literally. (1:19:59) He’s not making claims here.(1:20:01) He’s saying these are the quotes of the four star generals (1:20:04) and the leaders and the world do or like he’s you know what I mean? (1:20:08) He’s not making stretches here. (1:20:10) He’s literally quoting the people that are making the decision. (1:20:13) Yeah, like they’re hanging.(1:20:14) He’s hanging. (1:20:14) They’re being hanged with their own words and actions. (1:20:18) So the only way to know is if anyone’s like starts calling you names (1:20:21) anytime you bring up like a factual something factual that kind of (1:20:25) goes against the narrative.(1:20:27) If you’re called the name or they don’t talk to you, whatever. (1:20:31) It’s like if someone I mean, again, like if I’m if we’re all wrong, (1:20:36) if Tom DiLorenzo is wrong and there’s an I have another book, (1:20:39) it’s called actually, let me just go get it. (1:20:42) Yeah, absolutely.(1:20:43) So so that was the one that Joel had recommended to me (1:20:47) was Lincoln Unmasked, Tom DiLorenzo. (1:20:50) I’ve not got it yet, but I think it’s five bucks, five bucks on Google. (1:20:53) Yeah, it wasn’t about slavery.(1:20:55) Yeah. Exposing the great lie of this of the Civil War, (1:20:58) although I say war between the states (1:21:00) or war of northern aggression or war to prevent southern independence. (1:21:04) It was not a civil war, but this is another good primer.(1:21:07) And again, you just go there (1:21:08) and there’s all these references to letters and documents (1:21:10) and you can just go look up the primary sources and stuff. (1:21:12) And and why I mean, why are these all lies? (1:21:16) That’s what I want to know. (1:21:17) Like, why is he lying? (1:21:18) You know, why is Tom DiLorenzo lying? (1:21:21) You don’t tell me he’s a neoconfederate revisionist.(1:21:24) What in the book exactly is a lie? (1:21:26) And please show me how it’s lie (1:21:29) with other facts and evidence. (1:21:30) But that doesn’t happen. (1:21:31) You know what I mean? (1:21:32) So it’s like all this quote unquote revisionism never gets really refuted.(1:21:36) Or proven wrong. (1:21:37) It just gets it just again with the names and all that kind of pejoratives. (1:21:42) So to me, that’s just a good signal to that.(1:21:45) Yeah, actually, you know what? (1:21:46) Maybe this is this is true. (1:21:49) Yeah. So outside of DiLorenzo, is there another author (1:21:52) as well that that wrote a couple of things? (1:21:56) I’m trying to think of someone that wrote a few.(1:21:59) I can’t think of anybody off the top of my head. (1:22:01) It’s like obviously DiLorenzo seems to be a specialist in this portion of it. (1:22:05) But once again, we we do like that, that the idea of multiple sources (1:22:09) or multiple people kind of sharing those things, not obviously (1:22:12) we trust Scott Horton’s work and he he’s kind of a solo guy out there.(1:22:18) Well, that’s the great thing about books is they have their (1:22:20) their references and everything. (1:22:22) So I just go through and I highlight them and I go back later (1:22:24) and I have a list. (1:22:25) OK, I read, you know, Tom DiLorenzo’s book and here’s all his references and such.(1:22:30) And OK, and let me go look at we’ll go order some of these. (1:22:36) And like, like, like when I say like the emancipation proclamation, (1:22:40) you know, like free nobody. (1:22:42) OK, right.We’re kind of taught school emancipation proclamation. (1:22:45) Although that narrative seems to be changing a little bit. (1:22:47) People are more acknowledging it didn’t free anybody.(1:22:49) But that’s kind of like the (1:22:51) schoolboy, like the school classroom version of it. (1:22:55) It’s like, OK, he his own his own secretary of state’s mocking him (1:22:59) because it’s a joke. (1:23:02) Lincoln, there was the.(1:23:05) What was that conference called? (1:23:07) Something Hampton, the Hampton Roads Conference, where Lincoln (1:23:10) and some of this cabinet met with some of the Confederate leaders (1:23:15) to kind of have us try to talk about a peace plan. (1:23:18) Yeah, I don’t remember it, the name of it, unfortunately. (1:23:21) And yes, the Hampton Roads Conference, I think.(1:23:23) And but anyway. (1:23:25) The governor of Georgia was I forget his name. (1:23:28) He was there and he wrote all about it.(1:23:30) It’s well documented. (1:23:31) And he has his firsthand account because he was there (1:23:33) and he talks about how William Seward and Lincoln kind of told him like, (1:23:38) yeah, actually only so many hundred thousand slaves (1:23:42) came under effect of the Emancipation Proclamation. (1:23:45) There was like five million or whatever.(1:23:47) So it ended up being like three or four percent. (1:23:49) So it’s like 97 percent were still like not affected by the Emancipation (1:23:53) Proclamation. So it’s like, OK, so there’s a guy in his own words (1:23:56) at a meeting with Abraham Lincoln and William Seward saying, (1:23:59) you know, Lincoln and Seward are acknowledging, (1:24:01) you know, only like three percent of the slaves.(1:24:05) Actually, there’s any effect on them being freed (1:24:08) because he’s tried to incite like slave riots and stuff. (1:24:11) So like it’s just stuff like that. (1:24:12) It’s just I mean, people’s own words back then.(1:24:16) Like in for one more example, it’s like the kind of shift (1:24:19) that World War Two is like the. (1:24:21) Yeah, it’s like the folklore. (1:24:23) The further the time goes, the the myth can grow.Right. (1:24:26) Yeah, it’s like the like the bombing of like Nagasaki Hiroshima. (1:24:29) It’s like we had to do that because if we didn’t do that, (1:24:32) a million more Americans would have died.(1:24:34) Number one, there’s no way of knowing that. (1:24:35) Number two, that’s just a justification. (1:24:37) So that’s the mainstream kind of like Matt Walsh kind of explain it (1:24:41) like conservative or neocon kind of we had to do it.(1:24:45) But it’s OK. But like if I could Ben Shapiro for a second, (1:24:49) we have to go kill everyone. (1:24:50) We can’t everyone must die.(1:24:51) Everyone absolutely must die, even though I’m a little guy (1:24:54) who can’t do a goddamn thing by myself. (1:24:55) Everyone must die. (1:24:57) Everyone must just go to hell and die.(1:24:59) Just like that. (1:25:00) That’s a pretty good impression. That’s about right.(1:25:02) So it’s like so that’s and then (1:25:06) but, you know, people like Dwight Eisenhower (1:25:09) and other like animals and high ranking people in the military (1:25:12) back then were like, we didn’t need to do that (1:25:14) because the Japanese were going to surrender anyway. (1:25:16) So it’s like, who am I going to believe? (1:25:17) I mean, Eisenhower was. (1:25:19) It seems like we were on the press.(1:25:21) He was there. (1:25:22) He said we didn’t need to do a lot of other high ranking people there. (1:25:25) Who are privy to the discussions with Japanese about surrender.(1:25:28) They said they were going to surrender anyway. (1:25:29) We didn’t need to do it. (1:25:30) But it’s like, no, I’m not going to believe them.(1:25:32) I’m going to believe this. (1:25:33) This commentator over here who says a million more Americans (1:25:35) would have died if we didn’t nuke, you know, women and children. (1:25:39) Like, OK.And you’ve got and you’ve still got an active war. (1:25:43) You’ve got a brand new I hate to say it this way. (1:25:46) I hate to be glib, but you’ve got a brand new toy (1:25:48) that you get to test out on actual real people.(1:25:52) Like, that sounds absolutely atrocious, (1:25:55) but that’s not different from how they thought about it. (1:25:59) You know, let’s see what it’ll do. (1:26:01) The only kind, I guess, explanation I can wrap my head around (1:26:04) to a degree is I’ve heard people say, well, (1:26:07) we had to like it was to keep the Soviet Union in check.(1:26:12) So they knew what we had. (1:26:13) Like, we’re really the superpower in the world, not you. (1:26:16) Blah, blah, blah.(1:26:17) OK, like I can like that makes sense, you know, and that’s your argument. (1:26:21) And like, that’s kind of like consistent. (1:26:22) I still think it’s so wrong.(1:26:23) But that’s like the rationale. (1:26:25) Like, I had an argument is like, what if he did this? (1:26:28) What do they like? (1:26:29) Arbitrary. (1:26:29) They call the empire like a million more Americans would have died.Right. (1:26:33) What if they just say, call the emperor, go, hey, look out over your ocean. (1:26:38) Just look out there and then drop one like offshore (1:26:41) and have just the just the mushroom cloud alone.(1:26:44) Yeah. Should have been terrifying. (1:26:46) You know, that’s that’s that’s probably a better idea.(1:26:49) But anyway, just a thought. (1:26:51) Anyway, what do I know? (1:26:52) We’ve gotten free fish for a while. (1:26:54) We’re just a couple of retards.What the hell do we know? (1:26:55) Yeah. What do we know, man? (1:26:57) So, yeah. So thank you again for joining us, man.(1:27:01) Has been excellent, excellent co-host, special co-host, (1:27:04) special guest on a very special if by whiskey. (1:27:08) Do you have any any other things you want to talk about (1:27:10) before we call it an evening, my friend? (1:27:12) No, I really appreciate you thinking of me, inviting me on here. (1:27:15) And I look forward, like you mentioned, when Jason’s back, (1:27:19) we can do it again for sure.(1:27:21) And we might have to do it on the Constitution, because, Jason, (1:27:23) I know we’re going to we’re trying. (1:27:25) It’s like I never don’t say that because now I’m going to go on another rant (1:27:28) like the constant, like constantly get me started. (1:27:31) Let’s not do it.(1:27:33) We were going to talk about the Constitution at all. (1:27:35) Ixnay on the onstitution. (1:27:37) K. Exactly.(1:27:39) So but I appreciate you having me out here. (1:27:42) Keep up the great work again. (1:27:43) Once you get your side up and everything on it.(1:27:45) Listen, I’m not a programmer. (1:27:47) I can help. (1:27:48) I can, like I said, whatever you got, I’ll buy your what’s on your site.(1:27:52) And I just want to be encouraging to you guys, because, again, it takes a (1:27:55) like it takes a lot of commitment and time, dedication (1:28:00) to do it consistently. (1:28:02) And I really appreciate that. (1:28:03) And I see that and just keep up the good work.(1:28:06) Well, thank you very much. (1:28:07) And once again, I just want to thank everyone for joining us today, (1:28:11) because this was kind of an impromptu. (1:28:14) We weren’t sure because we knew Jason wasn’t going to be here today.(1:28:16) But Joel, thank you so much for sharing your Monday night with us. (1:28:20) Thank you, everybody in the chat. (1:28:21) It was a super, super active chat.(1:28:26) And Jason will probably end on this one. (1:28:28) But do you the Constitution to talk about the Constitution? (1:28:31) That’s that’s always a good one. (1:28:33) Thanks a lot.(1:28:33) But this is also a good one. (1:28:35) Once again, in the wake of James Lindsay, he will not let it go. (1:28:40) He called Dave Smith now an asset.(1:28:43) Some. Oh, it’s like, dude, come on. All right.(1:28:46) It’s been crazy. (1:28:47) This has been such a crazy couple of weeks. (1:28:49) Well, well, Joel, thank you so much.(1:28:51) Once again, any final words before we call it an evening? (1:28:54) No, I really appreciate you. (1:28:56) Yeah. Underscoring financial on X. (1:28:58) Let’s have a good time.And. (1:29:01) Yeah. All right.(1:29:02) Well, thank you again, everyone. (1:29:04) Thank you for joining us. (1:29:06) If you could, please do us a small favor.(1:29:08) Jason, I do this weekly every Monday. (1:29:11) Please jump on rumble dot com slash if by whiskey. (1:29:15) Please follow us.(1:29:17) Then you’ll know we’re going to have shows are going to be Mondays. (1:29:19) We’ve got a really special one towards the end of April. (1:29:22) It’s a well-known author and actually a publicist (1:29:25) of some very well-known musicians back in the day.(1:29:28) Someone I’ve had the pleasure of speaking with a handful of times. (1:29:31) He’s been on Rogan. (1:29:33) Actually, pretty cool stuff.(1:29:34) Don’t want to drop it till we’ve got the confirmation, (1:29:36) but we’ve kind of got the date set. (1:29:37) We’re looking forward to that. (1:29:39) Joel, thank you again for your support.(1:29:42) Once again, never been a B.A.N. (1:29:45) Coffee dot com. Just look on there. (1:29:48) The best thing you do, guys, if you just want to put on type type (1:29:50) in the guest form list like Joel did, just type in your name and email address.(1:29:53) We’d love to hear from you. (1:29:55) Thank you so much again, Joel. (1:29:57) Thank you again for joining us, everyone.(1:30:00) Thank you for joining us, sir. (1:30:02) Have yourself a good evening as well. Thanks.Bye. (1:30:05) Thanks so much, everybody. Take care.(1:30:07) I’ve got my iron and my six.