Danny Wu, creator of Michael Jackson Square One Documentary

Chris and Mark have a conversation with Danny Wu, producer/director of Square One on Amazon Prime Video. Danny shares with us some stories about Square One that few have heard until now. We also discuss other projects on his plate.
Square One on Amazon Prime USA:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/video/detail/B0887TPJ6Q/
Square One on Amazon Germany / Austria:
https://www.amazon.de/gp/video/detail/B087L14SXS/
Square One on Amazon Prime UK:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/video/detail/B0887T4PDJ/
Square One on Amazon Prime (all other countries):
https://www.primevideo.com/detail/0PQIRTK4KZKXJ9HIADDJVDE6FF/
Intro Music: “Blue Scorpion” Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com) Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/
Outro Music: “Neolith” Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com) Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/

Transcript:

(0:19) Hi everybody and welcome to another edition of Knocked Conscious. Hello. Welcome Christopher.How are you sir? Hello good, sir (0:26) How are you doing? I’m doing great (0:28) Today we have Danny Wu. He’s the producer and director of square one documentary on Amazon Prime Video. Hey, Danny.Are you over there? (0:36) Yes, I am. Thank you for having me. Thank you for coming on.So (0:40) We’d love for you to share a little bit about your how you got to (0:46) Have this be a project of yours, but then we’d love to hear more about you (0:49) So, please feel free to take care of that first part and then we can we can get to knowing you better (0:55) Sounds good excited to be on your show mark and Chris (0:59) Thanks (1:02) So tell us a little bit about how you got to have this subject matter be your first documentary that you wanted to produce (1:09) Well, I always wanted to you know be a filmmaker right growing up that was that was one of my dreams and I (1:17) Also had a dream of being a basketball player, but after some devastating knee injuries, that wasn’t really a possibility anymore (1:26) so filmmaking was kind of really my goal for quite some time now and (1:34) Just I never thought it would come this early right (1:38) I always thought I would go up the ladder, you know, go to film school. We’re gonna PA and stuff like that (1:46) but when this opportunity came, you know when I (1:51) Had the opportunity to interview Josephine Zoni (1:55) I knew right there and then that I had to I had to turn this from a simple interview into a documentary (2:03) Okay, that’s a very interesting way to get started in that how long the whole thing take you (2:08) from start to finish (2:11) Well, I think if you do you mean the idea or from the first interview probably from the idea would be a great start (2:19) But then curious how the whole you know (2:21) When you actually hit the first interview to when you actually completed the project as well (2:26) So I don’t think many people know this but I did have a YouTube channel back in the day (2:32) I didn’t make a couple of Michael Jackson videos on there (2:36) right and (2:39) From that I started researching more about the cases, you know, I wanted to interview more people (2:45) for my YouTube channel and (2:48) There was this rumor back then (2:50) That there was this girl who was friends (2:53) With the first accuser and she was actually a witness for the 2005 case (2:59) She has never spoken a story before (3:03) So kind of became my goal to kind of find this to find this witness, right? (3:08) And yeah, somehow somehow I got a name (3:11) And don’t really exactly recall how I got it (3:14) But it was on this blog and there was a comment and it led to the witness report (3:20) This blog was from like 2008 or something. So I had to dig really deep for that and the name was Josephine Zoni (3:29) So I looked up Josephine Zoni, you know, I’m searching up all these things about her online (3:34) Seeing what she does now and she’s a publicist in New York (3:38) Pretty well-known publicist on top of that (3:41) All this time.I didn’t even look to her up on social media. So (3:47) The moment that I did look her up on Twitter (3:51) Was one of the most surprising moments because she was actually following me. Oh, no kidding (3:57) Following you.Yeah, you have a lot of followers. So it’s hard to know everybody who’s following you (4:01) Well back back then I had like 500. So that’s still like eight times what we (4:07) Got you guys gonna get there you guys gonna get there.We’re gonna get there. You guys have the voice down, you know (4:13) Guys, have you guys have the million dollar million follower voice? (4:16) Well, you know and I’ve got a face for radio. So I’m (4:20) So (4:22) Anyway, I I see that she’s um, she’s actually defending Michael Jackson on her Twitter page (4:29) It’s kind of surprising to me, you know (4:32) So I sent her a Twitter DM.I (4:35) Think this was this was probably in the middle of March 2019 like towards the towards the end of March 2019 (4:43) I shoot I shoot her a DM and I tell her that hey, you know, I’ve done some Michael Jackson videos (4:50) Around that time. I had recently just like you guys I interviewed Taj Jackson (4:55) on my YouTube channel (4:57) So I told her that I interviewed Taj. I was wondering I heard some rumors about you (5:02) would you be interested in doing a interview in that style like either through Skype or I (5:09) Can come to New York and we can film an interview or something like that (5:13) And she replied that she actually replied like right away (5:18) That’s crazy (5:19) She replied it’s like it’s almost synchronicity, right? (5:22) Exactly.I was I when I saw that notification pop up it was just it was I was out of the world (5:29) That’s a I like called my dad up. I remember I was like, what should I do? Like should I go through with this? (5:36) it’s a big moment, you know and (5:38) You know, it’s a huge moment that that you must be like bursting right because it’s like your first get right, right exactly exactly (5:45) Because this is like a this is like breaking something new, you know, because before this no one even heard her story (5:51) Do you think that was your biggest? (5:55) Guest or witness or whatever word you want to do for square one. I mean even bigger than Taj (6:00) 100% (6:01) Okay, okay (6:03) No, nothing against Taj obviously, but no (6:08) Needed you needed her that was like your trump card, right exactly because (6:14) Right, we we get Josephine zone.I’ll get to there. Why? (6:19) Oh, yeah, we send her around but obviously the Taj the Taj challenges that I mean, you’ve got a direct familial contact, right? (6:25) I mean exactly some cases they don’t they don’t even acknowledge alibis for direct relatives in some exactly (6:30) Exactly. Well with Taj, you know, it gained a lot of popularity because Taj was always sharing the documentary later on and (6:38) you know for him to have that trust to me was also huge and (6:42) Of the documentary probably wouldn’t be as big as it is without Taj.I (6:47) Really appreciated his openness when he came on with us as well. Oh, yeah, absolutely. He and Jess were phenomenal phenomenal phenomenal (6:55) and (6:56) so (6:58) Josephine’s only she (7:01) Messages me back.She says that (7:03) She is interested in she has seen my youtube videos. She enjoyed them a lot (7:10) She said that she would be interested in an interview, but it’s not a good time for her (7:16) So that kind of I knew that I had a chance right (7:20) It’s like what’s that? So you’re saying there’s a chance. It’s a Jim Carrey.Yeah. Yeah, exactly (7:25) one of our favorite movies by the way, so dumb and dumber so (7:29) So (7:31) Throughout the next two months. I kept you know, just going back at her.Hey, do you think you can do this? (7:37) do you think you can do this and (7:39) You caught a scent man. You’re on it and I didn’t want to be too pushy, you know, right? (7:45) It’s really hard you do you do dance that line because we’re very, you know (7:48) We’re very interested in getting a bunch of different people (7:51) But you know, we want to give them the courtesy and respect that that we’re not just hounding them, right? Exactly. Exactly (7:58) It’s a it’s a fine line.So you kind of kind of have to (8:02) be friends with them, but then you don’t want to make it seem like it’s opportunistic and (8:07) because I genuinely did like her as a person as well because she has (8:12) done so many of the things that I wish to (8:14) Accomplish with my career and she was giving me a lot of good advice like even back then (8:21) But (8:22) Because she had a she was in some one of her lead one of her clients (8:27) Her bigger clients were in some of some legal legal battles, so she didn’t think it was a good time to go public (8:34) But once that when that once that case stalled (8:38) She agreed to do the interview with me. So (8:43) packed my bags flew to New York and (8:46) I (8:47) Brought a friend with me to record the first interview and that first interview isn’t what you guys see now (8:53) That first interview was like a face-to-face me and her we’re both on on screen (8:59) Okay, the camera would be on her and then it would be me asking a question and it would be on her again (9:04) Okay, got it. And so when I was doing it (9:08) I really like sitting in that seat and looking in her eyes and hearing her like say those words and tell the stories (9:15) It had such a has a such a great impact on me (9:19) just feeling her say it to me and that so when I watched a video back of (9:26) Me asking her the questions and then she’s speaking to me through in the video (9:31) It didn’t feel as powerful as she’s speaking to me directly (9:36) Right.So that’s when I had the idea that I had to had to had to get rid of myself for that part (9:44) And it would I really thought her (9:46) Her though. I found her eyes to be very expressive when she spoke. She she’s very eloquent and well spoken (9:54) Yes, I came across very strongly.I agree a hundred percent agree with that (9:59) so (10:00) you know I had to make up my mind again to go back to New York and (10:06) shoot the interview again, but this time it would just be her on camera and (10:12) From that point on I had the idea that (10:16) You know if if Michael Jackson fans they watched that interview that would mean a lot, you know, because they had the (10:25) context of the case (10:27) but for people who (10:29) Who don’t know the other side, you know who don’t know the allegations about Michael Jackson. No, this doesn’t really mean much right? (10:36) It’s just someone telling her story (10:38) It’s an excellent point so from from that perspective (10:42) I knew that I had an opportunity here to to make a documentary to see let’s just let’s just see who else we can get (10:49) Right to make this thing happen. So we got the Josephine interview done.I (10:57) Think around in in June (10:59) End of June beginning of July of 2019. I think end of June this was um (11:07) When the wrap I went to New York after the Raptors won the NBA (11:12) Championship so that’s around the end of June. Yeah, so end of June would be when we got our first scenes for the documentary (11:19) Okay (11:21) and from there (11:23) You know, I mrs. Taj and mrs. Jenny whining’s (11:28) Geraldine Hughes I emailed I told her that I have a documentary opportunity would you like to (11:34) Jump on it and of course because I had gotten the (11:39) Josephine interview done already, you know, I had I had something to to go off of you know, I had interviewed one of (11:46) the first accusers (11:48) Acquaintance so right because you had a foundation at that point exactly so to build on top of so to build off of that (11:55) so, um, I get all these interviews done and (12:01) I’m putting all this together and (12:04) Originally, I was gonna be the one to narrate it narrate it and (12:09) It just it didn’t feel right, you know (12:12) So in the final I said why not Charles Thompson? (12:17) Everyone knows that he is so knowledgeable about this case (12:22) Very knowledgeable.I watched a lot of his he followed we follow each other now on Twitter. That’s awesome (12:28) Thank you, yeah, he paid a very nice compliment to the last interview or the conversation we had he told me about that too (12:34) He he’s like Danny you should listen to their interviews. It was really really great.So well, thank you. That’s very kind of you (12:41) I mean, we just want to have a conversation. We’re just trying to get to know you.Yeah, exactly. So (12:47) Charles I shoot Charles (12:50) But before even before the Charles (12:53) for that entire summer like (12:56) Morning and night like we were just I was working on that documentary to kind of (13:01) Put together like a structure that kind of worked (13:05) and (13:06) Well, that’s one of the compliments about it. Is that it’s one of the most (13:11) organized (13:13) You know quote-unquote defenses, right? (13:17) It’s just it’s been paid a lot of that acclaim.I think very organized in that respect (13:22) Mm-hmm. I think one of my friend was mentioning to me this other day. I wouldn’t consider like a hundred percent valid but (13:31) It’s because I also came from I didn’t come from a documentary filmmaking (13:36) Background, you know I came from I want to make movies.I want to make it easy to understand for people (13:42) you know after after making this and (13:45) You go on you go online and you read all these. Um (13:49) You read all these books or these articles about documentary filmmaking (13:53) There’s so many the rules you have to follow. Oh your story has to be perfectly chronological (14:01) It’s really intimidating.Well, whereas when I was going in I didn’t know any of these rules (14:07) I was just trying to make the (14:09) documentary (14:10) How I saw would be fitting so we kind of jump around with the timeline a lot, you know (14:16) Yeah, but but if it’s but it flowed in the way you felt the story flowed exactly exactly I think before (14:24) Before this documentary kind of went mainstream. There were a couple fans that were even, you know messaging me to say that hey like you have (14:32) Chronological problems with your documentary you should really fix that which I just I did not agree with so I kind of stuck to my guns (14:39) and (14:40) Now it’s really paying dividends because it’s one of our strengths (14:43) Yeah, well kudos to that because I mean you are the filmmaker it’s your vision at the time as well (14:49) You know, you can obviously accept people’s (14:51) Constructive feedback, but it’s also at the end of the day. It’s yours (14:55) Yeah, which we have gotten a lot a lot of great constructive feedback, you know, absolutely (15:01) I mean the I’ll be honest the the community as a whole has been very supportive to us (15:05) We’ve probably about 13 or 1400 downloads already (15:09) Just the episode (15:11) So and that’s YouTube views combined with podcast downloads, but we have on both obviously, so that’s incredible (15:17) That’s it’s unbelievable like and the support and then people, you know, correcting us like there are a couple things that I’ll be honest (15:23) I just didn’t know (15:24) Everything, you know what? I mean? I like Michael Jackson, but I’m not you know (15:29) Number one super fan.I’m just not because I don’t know. I just don’t know him that well, you know (15:35) I was I was a I was a pretty big fan when I was around grade seven (15:41) Okay, the year that that was a year that Michael Jackson passed away, right? And I would say my fandom like kind of just (15:49) stalled over the years and (15:52) I wasn’t like listening to Michael Jackson songs every day and stuff (15:55) But you know, it was he was still someone that I studied a lot when I was younger (15:59) So, you know, I felt kind of qualified to talk about it (16:03) When the cases came out so some yeah, yeah continue. Oh good.I (16:10) Lost my train of thought already (16:12) I was just curious about just generally. So how did how does one get funding for for a project like this? (16:20) Well, is this something is personally funded or oh, it’s personally funded. It’s personally funded (16:25) Well, I was I was um, I was making YouTube videos before this, right? (16:29) So right and feel free to share your channel information everything.Do you still have your channel up? Oh, yeah (16:36) It’s it’s just Danny Wu. It’s just my name. Okay, cuz I did see one it had about five or six videos on it (16:41) Yeah, that’s that’s probably my channel.That’s the one. Okay (16:46) So I was already making YouTube videos and you know had a had a Sony (16:52) Sony 80d (16:53) Which isn’t you know, the greatest camera, but it gets the job done (16:57) But when it comes to filmmaking documentary filmmaking that would be (17:02) Compared to the top films that would be severely severely (17:08) Not up to par with the cameras that they use for sure (17:12) But but we saved a lot, you know on camera on equipment, you know, I’m I’m the only person like doing all this (17:21) So the only the only price really was the the air costs travel cost, okay (17:27) And the premiere cost that that kind of hurt the bank a little bit (17:32) I’m hoping I’m hoping that you’re recouping some of that with oh (17:37) You know (17:37) So you mentioned filmmaking in general? (17:41) I’m assuming from from what you just shared earlier that documentaries aren’t necessarily your genre (17:47) What what kind of films are you looking to make in the future? (17:50) Well, I’m I’m trying to focus on documentary filmmaking right now because okay (17:54) I’m like, I feel like they’re a couple they’re a couple more stories. I wanted so I just meant that when I was starting out (18:00) I never saw documentary filmmaking as a as a road (18:05) I would go down, you know, you know, we don’t always choose what we get into.Isn’t that funny how that works out? (18:11) Yeah, exactly exactly (18:12) But I mean it definitely seems like a calling of yours the way this one turned out just the quality and the way and the carefulness (18:19) That you took in making it (18:21) yeah, and (18:22) You guys saw some of the setups (18:26) I think with the with the Geraldine Hughes interview (18:30) we didn’t actually have left my tripod in the uber and (18:38) What did you set it up on so my friend Liam and I we were we were in skid row in LA (18:45) because that’s where she was volunteering and (18:47) We had a camp we had one camera and a backpack and (18:53) We get we get into where she was working and we’re just trying to find random objects to you know be able to (18:59) Make something that hold the camera up (19:03) So we’re finding toilet paper like stacking chairs up on top of each other. That’s that’s really how we did it (19:10) That’s amazing. So it’s like teeter-tottering as you’re trying to film (19:14) Yeah, you know just you’re trying to you’re trying to find solutions right because the uber uber driver wasn’t (19:22) Wasn’t answering her calls.You know, he didn’t want to come back to the area. I (19:26) Don’t know. I don’t even know where that is.But I know the term I know the skid row (19:30) I don’t know if I want to be there (19:38) Stealing my question mark (19:40) completely completely fair and (19:42) You know, even when we were leaving the uber drivers wouldn’t pick us up in the area (19:46) They would like ask us to walk out. Are you kidding Wow? Yeah (19:51) Maybe maybe she could have given you a ride out or something (19:55) Sure, she was still um, she was still volunteering after we left Wow, that’s amazing (20:02) So how safe did you feel? I mean, did you feel okay going in there? (20:06) Uh, you know (20:08) We did we did feel safe (20:09) You know, it was a as a relatively close walk to where she was volunteering and once we got there, you know (20:16) She she was just very warm to us (20:20) Everyone there seemed to love her and we were just more focused on (20:25) Getting the interview done. And if you the audio, I mean even though she was wearing a lavalier mic (20:33) Um, the music was blasting was blasting in the other room and (20:40) at one point during the interview (20:44) Someone came in to the room where we were doing our interview and just turned to turn the tap on (20:50) Turn a tap on it and he left like for the water like turn the water on full and just walked out.Yeah (20:55) Yeah, the washroom was right behind us. Oh my god (20:59) Yeah, and well even in the even in the documentary if you listen really carefully you could hear like (21:06) Toilets being flushed and the tap being turned on (21:10) If you listen really taking showers, you know, there’s no showers there (21:16) No, she should have a square one outtake I like it like a blooper reel or something (21:23) But um (21:25) We were we were running severely behind schedule that day because we shot that the same day (21:31) I arrived in LA and the second day was when I shot the Taj interview (21:40) Yeah, he wasn’t that happy with that one. He’s like I didn’t like how I was dressing that (21:44) I just thought it was another interview.I thought that was pretty telling. I thought that’s kind of funny (21:48) Yeah, because you try to hit him cold, right? (21:51) Like yeah, absolutely (21:52) Prepared for something like that not for something like this because you want the real response (21:57) You want to see his reaction, you know on-screen if he’s all prepared for it, you know, that might not look as authentic (22:07) With all the interviews you did Denny how often did (22:10) you (22:11) Stick to the scripted questions you had and how often did you go off? (22:17) the cuff where an answer that (22:21) Was given was not what you expected so it went down a different path (22:26) I think it’s dependent on the person you’re interviewing. Of course, right? (22:32) for example, if you’re interviewing someone who (22:36) Loves to tell stories as storyteller themselves (22:40) You kind of you kind of just give them that creative liberty to just go off on their story and you just kind of (22:45) Add little bits to it, right and you mean Josh (22:50) Taj Jenny, you know people like that (22:55) You know with Gerald with Geraldine’s interview it was it was so loud (22:59) It was so loud in that room that me and Liam we could barely hear what she was saying (23:04) So, you know, I had to just stick to the script and ask the questions because I didn’t really know what she was saying (23:11) But when I when I came back I had to I listened to it back and we heard her we heard her story that way (23:19) Okay (23:21) So to answer your question, I would say it’s um, it’s dependent (23:25) on who you’re interviewing, you know, if they’ve been telling their stories for a long time, they (23:30) had a (23:31) pre (23:33) Have an answer drawn up already obviously stick to the script (23:36) But if they’re more spontaneous more conversate like more conversation type (23:41) You got to go off go off of them.So you’re okay with the fact that hey if I don’t get half of my answers (23:47) That’s okay, because the interview could still be really good (23:51) Because of the flow of it Oh (23:53) 100% (23:55) 100% because you know a lot of a lot of this, you know when you make a film like this (24:00) You realize like how many of these like crazy moments are just divine accidents, you know (24:07) If this didn’t happen that didn’t happen (24:10) There would be no square one so you start being more appreciative of (24:18) People’s (24:19) People’s answers, especially you got a (24:23) Especially for Charles, we probably use like 1 4th of his interview material if that (24:30) So there’s a lot of a lot of nuggets in there that you got to kind of just go in and dig out (24:36) Wow, yeah, I’m really excited to actually have an opportunity to have a conversation with him as well (24:42) Yeah, and and what’s interesting to us is like once again Chris and I don’t come from the MJ fam (24:47) we just don’t but I (24:51) Met Jess on Twitter through synchronicity, right and (24:55) this happened changed my mind and just got us introduced to yourself and to Taj and (25:01) But I like the justice of us (25:03) I thought that that one thing that that one sex ring that Charles uncovered was is amazing as well (25:09) I just find him fascinating as well as yourself like (25:12) You’re just fascinating individuals to me. I just love (25:16) Going inside your head and hearing, you know your thoughts and how you got to where you got and all your processes (25:25) So what’s next on the docket for Danny next on a docket well (25:34) Well Nick right now, you know square one is currently it’s still kind of hot on Amazon Prime right now I think in Canada (25:42) we just hit number one and documentaries overall and (25:46) We’re all congratulations (25:48) Also top 20 in movies overall, which that that’s just unbelievable to me Wow (25:53) Congratulations, that is congratulations. I live in Canada, right? So I kind of kind of proud about that (25:58) We were number 102 in Venezuela as of this morning or something.I (26:05) Think they have a total of six downloads and somehow we ranked on there (26:09) It was it was the funniest thing stupidest thing which were ranked. It’s a (26:14) Podcast country. Yeah, that’s what I hear.You know, those six downloads really get us get us on the map (26:20) But hopefully this helps a little bit with that. No, absolutely (26:23) No, this has been great. And like I said, we’re not doing it for that.We’re really so interested in the story (26:31) Yeah, exactly. You don’t go into things like this being like, oh, I want to have the number one documentary on Amazon Prime (26:37) You know that that’s the goal like no, that’s that that comes with it (26:41) You know, the passion has to be absolutely from the heart. Did you guys watch it on Amazon Prime? (26:47) Absolutely.Yes, I watched it three times (26:50) Wow (26:50) Wow, thank you for that (26:52) No (26:52) well (26:53) I mean, you know Jess is so passionate about it when she when we got introduced there on Twitter and I (26:59) I wanted to be as informed as I could because you know (27:02) I wanted to make sure that I it’s like watching a movie, you know, I wanted to almost memorize the parts (27:07) Yeah, exactly (27:11) So, yeah Amazon Prime has just been insane I think in the short term what’s gonna happen next is um, I (27:20) Think on the one one year anniversary of square one, you know the original square one. That was a YouTube release (27:27) Right. We’re we’re actually talking about it because I think someone on Twitter talked about it with you.Is it October 5th? (27:34) October 5th or you know, maybe even a little bit earlier. It’s a (27:39) October 2nd, I was thinking okay second or fifth we could do the one-year anniversary, you know just because last year (27:46) We released square one October 5th (27:49) Congratulations. That’s really awesome.And that was the original cut right? We kind of use YouTube as our film festival (27:58) Yeah, because we didn’t know I had trust me. I had no idea how any of this worked (28:03) You know, I had no idea about film festivals stuff like that (28:06) I think after after square one premiered in LA (28:10) Taj’s producer came to me and she was talking about how I should really look into getting this premiered at other (28:17) Festivals other big festivals and they would be interested in having me and I just had no idea what that meant (28:25) Like at the time I’m so embarrassed now, but I had no idea what that meant (28:31) Because I had already announced on YouTube that I’m gonna be releasing the documentary the following week (28:36) So I don’t have time to go release it in other festivals, right? Because I’ll be going back on my word (28:45) So when it finally were released on YouTube (28:49) it had (28:50) Around a hundred K views on the first day. I want to say around 100 K 150 K (28:56) How the heck did it get so how did it go viral so quick and then as (29:01) As fast as they go viral though.It’s just it slowed down just as fast (29:06) Sure. Well, yeah, right (29:09) exactly, so (29:11) From from one heck of a spike though. Sorry Danny.I mean, that’s a huge spike (29:16) Just like from this from the second day to to now (29:21) I think the total views of our of our YouTube YouTube raw cut is around (29:28) 500,000 now so (29:30) Relatively slow compared to compared to the first day momentum, right? (29:34) But also if it was only on YouTube, I’m sure those guys would be Scott would be the numbers that you’d have (29:39) I mean, I mean, I mean exactly that’s why (29:43) you know in January we did a we did a premiere in Amsterdam and (29:48) There was this there was this lady she came up to me (29:50) She came up to me and she was um, she held her index finger and thumb together almost like a pinch (29:58) She was gesturing that to me. She said hey Danny. I just have a question, you know, I (30:03) I’ve been checking the YouTube views every day.Why is it so little? (30:10) I don’t know Karen. I’m trying, you know, I’m (30:13) Yeah (30:15) We have a podcast that we’re just starting we don’t watch that every two seconds (30:19) I’m not clicking refresh to see if we got one extra download, you know every three seconds (30:25) But you know learning so what I did basically was I looked up other top in the indie documentaries (30:34) On Amazon Prime and I kind of kind of looked at their roads, you know, what streaming services did they go on? (30:40) Did they sign their rights over to a distribution company stuff like that and from there (30:48) I decided to put it on Amazon Prime and now it’s on to be TV as well. Oh, it’s on to be as well (30:55) Yeah, it’s on to be as well.Yeah, it is a free one with ads, right? Yes (30:59) Okay, it’s on to be and I think it’s actually made it to the most popular page already (31:06) So that’s kind of wild (31:09) Also to be has ads in the middle of the (31:13) movie (31:15) Yeah, yeah, they have like broken out (31:17) Okay, so that’s free. So that’s why the overall length is longer because they have ads I would guess. Yeah, it makes sense (31:25) Okay.Now now I can sleep easy at night. Thank you guys (31:30) Guarding um Amazon Prime Danny (31:33) Um, I have no idea and that’s why I’m gonna ask you (31:36) I’m a big fan of how things work behind the scenes and logistics. Can you tell me or how? (31:45) In two minutes three minutes or 20, whatever (31:47) how do you how’d you get on Amazon Prime you had to go through distribution company and then they did the work or (31:53) How does I’m curious on how that all happens? (31:59) Yeah, I’ll tell you exactly how it happened (32:02) So to get on Amazon Prime there are two ways (32:06) If you distribute it by yourself (32:08) You can get on US UK and Germany if they accept your arm if they accept your film (32:16) Which is getting hard to apply you have to apply and that’s a manually approve your video (32:21) Make sure everything is correct and they’re trying to cut down on low quality content now, right? So it’s getting increasingly increasingly harder (32:29) Okay (32:30) Another way is to go through a distribution company (32:34) but oftentimes (32:36) Distribution companies they want to they want the rights to your documentary (32:41) but then they would (32:42) They would be able to get it on Amazon Prime to be stuff like that much much quicker (32:49) So what I ended up doing was um, first we reached out to a couple distribution companies and (32:57) They said that (32:58) They would have they would be happy to put it on Amazon Prime, but they would need the complete rights documentary (33:05) Which I just didn’t didn’t feel comfortable giving up, you know, you hear horror stories about that all the time (33:11) Of course giving up the rights to their project (33:14) but what we did was (33:17) originally, we just (33:19) We submitted it.We we first we did a we did a 2.0 cut, right? (33:25) We took all the advice we got on YouTube kind of I had Jess send me a lot of stuff and I kind of just (33:33) Went over it, you know, Jess was sending me like hundreds and hundreds of documents like every day things I can approve things I can do better (33:42) New evidence, yeah, she is (33:46) Crazy awesome, and I mean awesome more than crazy. She is just a hound dog. Holy mackerel.She is flooding our (33:53) DMS with you would know like PDI was loving it (33:57) I mean she sent us the Google Drive and this and that it was awesome a hundred percent a hundred percent. So sorry (34:02) So I have to like I have to dig through these things like every day right and just find (34:08) And I hate to say it but like 90% of it is useless, you know, I’m not gonna that’s it’s not gonna work on documentary (34:14) There’s all that’s just truth though. I mean that’s like all data, right? (34:17) That’s all and I tell her to send me those things to you know, because it’s all object (34:21) It’s all subjective, but there’s always like one or two things that I’m like, okay.I need I need to incorporate this somehow (34:28) which is which is annoying part because like if she sends like a hundred things every day and (34:34) None of them work. I can just tell her to stop sending me sending me stuff (34:38) But now like every time it was like one or two that turns out to be like good (34:42) You know, you have to tell her to keep doing it. Yeah.I mean you just can’t stop. Unfortunately, it’s one of those like (34:48) You know prices to pay, you know (34:50) But it was fantastic though, and you know and she was awesome she managed to find some crazy crazy stuff (34:59) so we incorporated some of that into square one 2.0 and (35:04) Submitted it just at the subtitles by herself (35:09) We submitted it into Amazon Prime (35:14) US UK and (35:16) What just it was um, she organized a bunch of Michael Jackson fans who wanted to do the subtitles (35:24) for other countries, right so (35:26) All those people who have contributed to subtitles desserts. There’s so so much credit so so much credit and they’ve all gone (35:34) Shout out on a credit on IMDb for their for their hard work (35:39) But basically they translated (35:42) all the English characters to (35:46) the language where they’re from so we were able to submit it to (35:51) at first to US UK and Germany and (35:56) It took it took so so long (35:59) Like months for it to finally be accepted (36:03) into Germany and (36:07) You know in the beginning I never I never really like expected it to take off or anything like that, right (36:13) because when you read (36:15) When you read read it, for example for some indie indie filmmakers and they talk about their experiences with Amazon Prime (36:24) It’s more like oh you just you do it for you do it for the clout you do it for the credit (36:29) Yeah, it’s exposure at least (36:31) You do it so you can say in the future (36:35) that you got a documentary on Amazon Prime, you know stuff like that and (36:39) And (36:40) You know, it was it was just steadily steadily increasing (36:44) And all of a sudden US and UK when they accepted it (36:48) You know a month in two months in you can just see the documentary climbing climbing the rankings (36:56) Like every day was climbing one or two spots and I can I can see the numbers every day, right? (37:02) I can see the mint streams is increasing by a lot as well (37:05) Yeah, and I (37:07) Remember I set a goal.I looked I looked up at the documentaries and there’s a documentary called one child nation (37:13) And I kind of just was like, okay if we could get square one to that level right there like behind it (37:19) That would be pretty cool. And then like four days later (37:23) I woke up and square one was like two to two spots ahead and I was that was just I think that was just so so (37:30) so surreal and I think in the first month I (37:33) Mean the first two months we had already (37:38) Broken the amount of views that YouTube had amount of minutes streamed I should say (37:43) So now we have done the YouTube ministry many many times over (37:48) Where YouTube YouTube because YouTube the documentary on YouTube? (37:54) To put it lightly like it was it was kind of a flop right for a project this big (38:01) Wrong for well in your eyes in your (38:04) Because you have personal goals that you’d like to have (38:07) Reach and everything. I mean, I mean, for example, if you get 100k views on the first day (38:13) You’re gonna you’re gonna kind of expect it to keep going at some pace like that, right? Yes something, right? (38:19) for the next next few months you get like (38:22) 50k (38:24) It’s a it’s a very big slowdown (38:26) Yes, but it kind of seems to be extremes doesn’t it on in social media world (38:31) Yeah, whereas I’m on Amazon Prime, you know, it’s a there’s less there’s less document (38:36) There’s less some videos to compete with and for example, no one really goes on to YouTube (38:43) To watch a documentary they go on YouTube to watch something quick, you know something light (38:49) You don’t you don’t go on YouTube saying I’m gonna sit down and watch an hour and a half of a documentary (38:55) You know, not many people do that.Whereas if you (38:59) Whereas for Amazon Prime, for example, you’re probably already (39:03) Opening Amazon Prime you’re browsing with the mindset that I’m gonna sit down here. I’m gonna watch something completely through (39:11) at a longer length (39:13) So I think that’s the reason that the Amazon Prime document the documentary on Amazon Prime (39:20) Has done so much better to where in July actually reached the number one spot (39:26) which is still still still shocking to me and (39:31) You know the numbers the numbers reflect that so (39:36) Incredible yeah, it’s awesome (39:39) And I did find I did find square one on to be because I happen to have to be and it’s an it does show (39:44) 93 minutes so there is a four minute (39:47) Difference it must be come I’m assuming it’s commercials (39:51) yeah, kind of (39:52) Kind of not at ease about that, but I’m hoping are you a little concerned? I (39:57) I’ve skimmed it. I’m skimmed it (39:59) It seemed fine, but I didn’t know where the extra three minutes came from sure (40:03) That’s probably what it is because I think they come in like 15 second bursts or whatever every X amount of minutes (40:09) Yeah, I’m also trying to get it on the mailed on demand before (40:14) before October (40:15) Before our October rally (40:19) Very awesome.Do you have some kind of rally planned or scheduled? (40:23) Yeah, that was um, that’s what you guys saw on Twitter for the one years going. Okay. Yeah (40:29) Yeah, what happened last year was that? (40:31) We were they were trying to trend it to go worldwide right to make the hashtag or number were to rank worldwide and (40:40) What happened was that they planned a rally an hour before the documentary dropped (40:46) so an hour before the documentary dropped lots and lots of hashtags like (40:51) It was trending a couple countries, but then as a documentary like rolled out (40:57) No one was tweeting anymore because they’re all watching the documentary (41:01) So and then I try to catch yeah kind of victim of your own creation there.Yeah, and then afterwards, you know, they tweet again (41:07) So when we look at it afterwards numbers are pretty high I think we were at like 50k tweets (41:14) Or something like that. We were like higher than um, most of ones that were work that were ranking top of the hash tag (41:21) WWE like they always think they’re always ranking number one. Yeah (41:26) But because I think it’s because of the time that we didn’t we weren’t able to rank worldwide (41:38) That’s pretty awesome, I mean, it’s just crazy that you’re number one in Canada your home country congratulations (41:43) yeah, because it was crazy because I was getting I was getting DMS from (41:49) People that haven’t seen in years about how they just watched me on Amazon Prime (41:55) That’s pretty funny because um, someone messaged me (41:58) Congratulating me and telling me how much they liked it.And I was I was out eating right now. I was out eating when he sent that (42:06) Um, and it turns out like he he was in the same restaurant (42:12) Shut up. Yeah, I think I didn’t go say hi though.I was gonna be too awkward. Why not? (42:18) You want to shout to this person right now? We can we can clarify it. So the person feels love (42:24) Okay, that person in the restaurant that tweeted Daniel.It wasn’t it wasn’t a restaurant. I was a food court. It’s food (42:30) Okay, the food court that Danny got the tweet (42:33) You don’t want people to know I eat at a food court, okay, come on, okay, that’s okay, man (42:39) Hey, I get an orange Julius every once in a while (42:42) Hot dog on a stick.Oh that stuff boardwalk fries. We’re (42:46) I love just chilling, you know (42:49) Yeah, how that you know what the mall a food courts a great place of people watch, right? (42:57) Documentary filmmaker I would think that you that’s like (43:00) That’s your next documentary the food court Chris and I sit in places all day and just watch people just do their stuff (43:09) It’s not true at all (43:19) We have the solitude gene in us we we do like to kind of break off on our own (43:25) White time (43:26) Yeah, I need that a lot of a lot of thinking for square one was done inside a mall or driving (43:34) Yeah, I can imagine with that. So do you get much sleep? (43:39) During during the documentary.I just in general. It sounds like your mind’s going a mile a minute like ours does (43:45) it was um (43:47) during during the the documentary filmmaking process the editing process it was it was pretty tough because (43:55) My parents were actually over for the summer (43:59) and they had brought um, my cousin as well my younger cousin and (44:05) Because they they would trap they would come over from China and we would do a US road trip usually every year (44:12) But because of the square one stuff, you know, it’s kind of kind of tough to road trip and edit (44:19) Right. Oh, it doesn’t doesn’t really work.Yeah, it’s kind of hard. You have to have better equipment (44:25) Exactly mobile like that. So so so what ended up happening was a lot of times I would spend the morning with them and (44:35) then in the afternoon that would be (44:38) afternoon to about like (44:41) Five I would want to say five at night (44:45) Five into the morning I should say that’s when I would be editing (44:48) And then take a quick nap and then hang out with them again and then you know, that’s that was a cycle (44:54) Wow, that must have been rough for how many months was that? (44:58) That was about like two months two months or so and then college all-nighters every night (45:03) Two months, but this is this is fun though, right? Cuz this is like sure (45:08) Exactly.So this is very different from uh, I was also was I graduated but then I was also in school for like half the (45:18) For the first term of summer (45:20) So I think that was right during the Josephine Zoni interview. Yes. That’s also another part when I was doing the Josephine Zoni (45:28) Interview I was um, I was in school (45:31) And I had so many midterms do so I would interview Josie and I would go home and I have to write it a freaking essay (45:41) Yeah for my class so you were on the plane to New York studying yeah, oh well (45:46) Before the year before the interview, you know, I kind of (45:50) You know, there wasn’t much to prep for for the interview because I already knew what to expect (45:58) but I (45:59) Had a few essays due and I had a big final exam the day that I got back.So (46:07) Yeah, I had to balance I almost forgot about it it seems like a lot of pressure (46:12) Yeah, I mean it was it was my final term, you know, and (46:17) It was my final two final few assignments. So from that perspective. It was kind of fun to finally finish it (46:26) Yeah, how’d you end up doing? I (46:30) Think on the on the paper.I got like I got an 80% which is um, which is all right (46:36) That’s a that’s a B. We’ll take it. Yeah (46:40) And in Canada, that’s an a actually that’s an a we’ll take that too (46:45) Canadians are so friendly. I went to the wrong country.It’s a it’s an a-minus in Canada if you’re 80% in a boat Wow (46:52) Yeah, we were in the wrong country. Is that because of the exchange rate? (47:01) For the (47:02) What college was that if you don’t mind us asking what your credentials are what university did you go? (47:07) UBC it’s in British Columbia British Columbia. Yeah, we were one of the final schools to shut down for kovat (47:13) So for a while, we were actually the number one ranked school in the world (47:18) Wow, cuz you were open.Yeah (47:22) That’s pretty cool, I’ll take it look if every other podcast shut down just for one day (47:27) And we could just have one download and then we go UBC is the big university in my in my city (47:34) Yeah in Vancouver in Vancouver, yes, yeah, yeah British Columbia is gorgeous up there I wish I (47:41) Actually visited I just see pictures it is I’ve been maybe Danny’s gonna invite us (47:45) But I’m gonna put them on the spot on here anything guys already invited man. Oh, thanks, man (47:49) Well, you’re welcome to Phoenix anytime you want. It’s only a hundred and sixteen degrees.We can we can throw that’s a lot in centigrade (47:56) Like 44 it’s high centigrade’s for sure. You know, you guys are from Phoenix. Yes.Yeah, we’re in Phoenix (48:03) my (48:05) My high school alumni Steve Nash (48:09) Sons. Yes, he did. Yeah, he many years.Yes (48:16) I’m sure he has he’s talented any Blake’s soccer as well and so (48:21) skating’s very very (48:23) Very very talented. He seems like a really nice guys. He can did he contribute a lot to your school after he left? (48:31) No, what a weird what a weird tangent that took he did come to like two of my (48:38) One of my games though.He told me good game afterwards. Very cool (48:41) It was were you like looking up to him because he was an alumnus alumnus at the time and you wanted to be a basketball (48:46) player (48:47) Yes, that’s one of the reasons that I went to the school that I went to. I went to a boarding school in Victoria (48:53) So I was living by myself since grade eight (48:57) Really really tough, you know people always like to glamorize how fun boarding school was but it was not in the beginning for me (49:04) People say boarding school is fun (49:06) Yeah, I that I don’t know what that I don’t that (49:11) Like in TV shows and TV shows people it seems like a cool club to be in in TV shows (49:16) But it I don’t think it’s that’s advertise the uniforms.Absolutely not. Yeah (49:22) vloggings (49:25) Those are the worst my friend (49:29) The game that Steve Nash went to (49:31) That was also the first game that my mom has came to see me play (49:37) Since like six years prior. So it was like a pretty pretty big day for me (49:42) And I think I won and I won the first team all-star at that tournament (49:47) Which was like the first person from my school to win it since Nash at that tournament.So (49:53) Pretty fun. It’s amazing. Yeah, I don’t think it’s an awesome story.I don’t think he knew that part though, but (49:59) He does now (50:00) I feel like a mini documentary just about that little story about how you (50:04) Wanted to do that with basketball and how your connection with Nash (50:07) oh, that’s that’s one of the future projects that I want to get into you know, because um (50:14) My coach my coach has such a such an insane history his career in general, you know, he coached Steve Nash (50:23) He was actually also accused of some stuff by students (50:28) That he was now he was quitted from (50:31) How the gym is gym is named after him (50:36) But I did I did pitch a documentary idea out it’s a few grants about basketball (50:43) Between about like three friends like me and my two other friends (50:47) Our basketball careers, but I guess they didn’t they want to go in another direction so (50:54) Yeah, but maybe at some future point you’ve got you know, you’ve got to pass (50:57) You’ve got your documentary passion and basketball has always been there for you (51:01) Exactly. Exactly. I’m sure I don’t really I don’t really need that grant anyway to be honest because I could just filming myself (51:08) This just in Danny Wu.He’s balling people (51:13) Something you’re gonna keep pursuing that basketball movie (51:18) It’s a documentary (51:21) but I (51:22) Have to I have to finish (51:23) Well go into back to your friggin point from maybe an hour ago. We do that a lot (51:28) yeah, we were gonna title this tangents, but (51:32) We felt the other name was better (51:34) Go back to your point like an hour ago. I do have a few other projects lined up (51:41) But after after all that this is definitely something something that I will look into (51:48) And what are the other projects you have lined up (51:51) well (51:52) as you guys know I was um, I was in China for for quarantine because I (51:58) Went back to China for Chinese New Year (52:00) To spend with my family and I kind of just got stuck there (52:05) Because of Colbert.Yeah, we watched we watched your video (52:09) Supposed to be a we were supposed to (52:12) Continue touring like there’s we were thinking of going on going to other countries for the square one tour (52:20) But this was kind of like a blessing in disguise because you know that kind of sat me down (52:25) Gave me time to reflect on what I needed to do to move this project forward, you know (52:31) Yeah, I mean February would have been six months in exactly (52:34) So that’s probably a perfect time to really reflect and kind of see where you’re at and where you want to be (52:39) Because we say that the documentary was released in 2019, but it really it really was released in 2020 (52:46) because that’s when when (52:48) Hit Amazon Prime. That’s when like people who were in Michael Jackson’s fans began watching it, right? (52:56) Like a hundred K fans. That’s cool.All hundred K probably love Michael Jackson, right? (53:01) Right, right (53:02) And I mean, let’s not you know (53:04) Let’s be honest if you have an affinity towards someone you’re going to be more defensive or supportive of them (53:09) Exactly a hundred percent a hundred percent. So and that was never that was never my goal of the documentary (53:15) my goal was always to appeal to (53:18) neutrals, you know people like (53:21) Chris and Mark (53:23) so (53:25) And kudos to you for that because it did not appear like (53:30) Any kind of fan (53:32) I’ve seen some of some of the supporter pages before or (53:36) Some of the works of supporters and it just and you even see the tweets, right? It’s just like (53:42) It was presented very well (53:44) I have to give kudos to the (53:47) Michael Jackson fans for that because they’ve done so much of the groundwork, right? (53:50) They’ve done so much of the groundwork that I could just go in and kind of take from their resources (53:57) Because it’s almost like a library (53:59) So, yeah, it’s an amazingly supportive community amazingly amazing supportive community and that’s the other thing, you know (54:06) I did a I did an interview recently (54:09) with with Newsy (54:11) with Newsy and (54:14) You know, he was he was um (54:17) He was kind of just um getting have you guys seen that interview? Yes, I have. How’d you feel about it? (54:24) I thought he was kind of a jerk face (54:28) That is that not accurate or was that this is the kind one (54:35) Have you seen a mark I can’t say that I have what what where was it that I’ve seen it and you haven’t I (54:42) What is wrong with the I look right now? (54:44) I was on your page Danny and I watched the videos that you had on there.I didn’t see that interview (54:49) This was on Twitter. This was on Twitter. Oh, I didn’t and I’m not even I’m so sorry either.Look, I’m I’m in (54:55) Marcus I (54:56) Okay, this just in I should never do a documentary because I’m not thorough enough, but good thing. I’m the verdict (55:02) I’m gonna take I’m gonna take Chris’s word for it and say that he was a jerk face, but can we talk about it? (55:08) Yes, Danny confirm or deny that he and I will watch it right after this. I know I’m not gonna I’m not gonna confer (55:14) Okay, but I like Chris talk shit.You just listen (55:19) Tell us about Newsy. I’ll give you some context to the stories. Oh, please (55:23) Yes, because I do think it came from a good place in the beginning (55:27) So I get a I get a message from their producer (55:32) That he has watched square one and (55:35) From the vibe that I got he really enjoyed it.He really liked it. You know, he’s telling me how (55:41) It’s very happy that he understood why it’s number one on Amazon Prime (55:45) He said if I needed any more publicity, you know free to talk about it on his show (55:50) Talk about any way like live record it whatever (55:55) So, you know I talked talk it over with some of my team and they they feel that’s a it’s a good idea as well (56:03) So we set it up and (56:07) I’d the day before right? He told me that the anchor the anchor is gonna watch the documentary tonight and (56:16) He’s gonna be interviewing me (56:19) So (56:21) Then you realize that it’s kind of like out of the producers hands right because um, this is someone else that’s (56:28) Watching the documentary. It’s not the guy who DM me that (56:32) right (56:34) But but still though, um, I asked him, you know, well, what kind of questions should I be expecting and he was just gonna be (56:41) Oh, you know talk about talk about how you got your documentary onto Amazon Prime (56:46) Talk about how you got sourcing, you know, what do you think really is going on stuff like that? (56:51) Just sounds good on paper, right? Yeah, it’s the stuff that we actually ask and actually care about you mean? Yeah, exactly (56:57) Exactly so (57:01) So so I get on right I get on the interview (57:05) And I’m talking I’m talking to that guy and you know in the back of my mind (57:10) I always kind of I was expecting it right? I wasn’t I (57:13) Wasn’t hoping for it to happen, but you know, you always kind of expect the worst and (57:19) It’s good at least to have like a preparation for it or just in case yeah (57:25) So so he’s talking to me.He’s like, yeah, I’ve seen your senior senior documentary, you know (57:30) It’s great. And I’m also I’ve also seen the other one, you know (57:33) So many of the things in your documentary like I’ve never seen seen anywhere before it is very very kind to me (57:41) and (57:41) As the interview started, you know, one of the questions he literally asked me was um, he’s telling me how (57:47) he’s telling me how um (57:50) he was expecting screw one to have like (57:53) 90% of on tomatoes and it even blew that away (57:56) He had 98 just like even like all the stuff praising the documentary, right? (58:02) Right, and we even went into that and with Taj and Jess like all those scores (58:07) and then (58:08) You know midway through the interview (58:12) You can kind of just feel the tie ships (58:16) How who are you Danny? What questions started started coming in? (58:22) Do you know the first with the first question that kind of I really don’t call but what happened was, um (58:27) he asked a question that was like (58:31) that was kind of spinning spinning what I was saying, right because (58:35) He would take little parts of the documentary take it out of context and then (58:41) Interrogate me about it as if that was my entire point of the documentary (58:45) You know, for example, he would talk about the Evan Chandler phone call about how (58:52) Hey, wouldn’t you want a nasty attorney as well? Yep. I remember that (58:56) It’s like okay, but what about everything else? He has said everything else.He has done you’re taking one line that he has said (59:03) You know (59:06) But when I kind of felt you wouldn’t want a nasty father (59:10) Like sorry, it was like I don’t care. It’s irrelevant. What what Jordan wants? (59:15) Oh, yeah, I would want a nasty criminal attorney, you know, right? (59:19) but anyway, so so he kind of caught me a little bit off-guard I (59:23) I was like, hey, I’m gonna give me 10 seconds (59:27) So I kind of took 10 seconds to kind of just prepare myself for the onslaught that’s gonna come (59:33) Understand that this wasn’t gonna be like one of those interviews.That’s uh, they talk about the documentary (59:39) You know, they’re gonna be doing this to get a headline and agenda-driven and clickbaity and all that (59:45) Yeah, and so so the next next three to three four minutes of the interview was basically just just all that all that (59:54) and (59:55) You know, he ended it with saying that he looked forward to seeing a lot of my future projects (1:00:01) But when it got on air all the things that he praised about square one (1:00:06) Talking about or even talking about how he’s excited to see my future projects (1:00:12) It’s all cut out. Only thing that’s left is the accusations the interrogation (1:00:18) That’s awful. I mean, that’s just (1:00:21) It’s it’s that distortion of truth, right? (1:00:25) and then you know (1:00:27) The next day I think a lot of fans were calling him out calling the producer out for um (1:00:34) For not showing the part where I talk about how I got it on Amazon Prime (1:00:40) Right, that’s the whole reason the guy called you allegedly yeah, and (1:00:46) So so he releases another video of me talking about filmmaking tips right filmmaking tips and (1:00:53) You know, that was cool, but I now realized that the interviewer completely completely misunderstood what I was talking about (1:01:01) I mean not like he really cared but (1:01:03) so so he asked me for advice about filmmaking documentary filmmaking and (1:01:09) I talked about how you got to just be fearless (1:01:13) You know all the rules (1:01:15) documentary filmmaking may seem (1:01:18) filmmaking in general may seem (1:01:21) Very very hard.It’s very gatekept (1:01:25) It’s a very gatekept (1:01:27) Industry, you know, you don’t have a lot of capital. It’s very hard to make it and (1:01:33) so I just (1:01:34) Basically said that you gotta gotta just do your own thing (1:01:38) Make up your own rules about filmmaking (1:01:41) But from the from the storytelling perspective, you know stuff like that (1:01:45) But the interviewer he could kind of just completely completely misunderstood that and he thought I meant (1:01:52) By saying he thought I meant that as in crossing ethical boundaries, right like making up a story (1:02:00) Oh, he thought I meant like oh using using videos like whatever way you want (1:02:08) It’s like obviously not what I’m talking about I’m talking about you can use what I said for right like a edit was (1:02:15) manipulation either right like (1:02:18) What I say for for any any sort any kind of filmmaking in general, you know (1:02:24) Obviously the ethical guidelines, you know permissions and stuff like that (1:02:27) You gotta you gotta get that taken care of you can’t even do that. Like you shouldn’t be in filmmaking, right? (1:02:33) Yeah, that’s unfortunate (1:02:35) See mark jerk face jerk face and I Danny (1:02:38) I thought you handled yourself very well when he you when he said well the guy hired the worst attorney possible (1:02:44) The crew whatever the term the adjective was and you addressed he said yes (1:02:49) Regarding this I would do that.However, da da da da and I thought you handled yourself very well when he became accusatory (1:02:55) So I compliment you on that (1:02:58) Thank you for that and I can’t wait to compliment you after I watch it after this (1:03:07) So Danny is there anything else you wanted to share with us any other stories or (1:03:14) You guys were asking about following projects and somehow absolutely (1:03:19) Anyway, so for my (1:03:22) my following projects what I’ve been thinking of doing it was (1:03:26) Have one big project a year (1:03:28) while also having smaller projects on my youtube channel, you know, so (1:03:34) the COVID type videos on YouTube (1:03:37) Would be that type of video, you know (1:03:40) Working on another one of those right now more investigative type (1:03:44) that would be for YouTube and (1:03:47) for (1:03:48) The mainstream more mainstream one. I’ll also produce one (1:03:53) every year go hoping to (1:03:56) produce one (1:03:57) right now and (1:04:00) That would be the one that I would take to the film festivals and go the mainstream route (1:04:06) Seems like you’re hitting it from both sides. It’s a really good way to diversify (1:04:10) Yes.Yes, you know because it’s so unpredictable, right? (1:04:16) Well, I mean, let’s be honest (1:04:17) I’d you know (1:04:17) We’re trying to be find the truth and we’re finding that certain aspects of the mainstream media have been withholding or you know (1:04:24) Pushing or pulling agendas how they see fit and it’s not the only way to do business anymore (1:04:31) There are workarounds so we have to take advantage of that exactly but for my for my next project though. I would love it to (1:04:38) To premiere at some festivals and be competitive during the awards (1:04:43) Because (1:04:45) you know, that’s one of the biggest criticism of square one, which is very valid was um, (1:04:51) there’s a lot of the from a lot of like the technical aspects, right, but the thing is it’s (1:04:56) Why I was doing square one a lot of the things I truly truly didn’t understand about filmmaking (1:05:03) Because I was I had two roles to go down (1:05:07) Because I could either learn about filmmaking (1:05:11) Right take my time learn everything about filmmaking then go film it (1:05:15) That’s gonna take a lot of time, you know, right? (1:05:18) That’s like a long way to go or you can kind of learn them. Yeah, that’s a (1:05:22) or or I could just make it to how I know would fit and (1:05:28) then start (1:05:30) Learning it on the way doing it both the same time and I chose I chose doing at the same time (1:05:34) Yeah, it’s almost like a trade when you’re doing it, you know as you learn right exactly (1:05:39) Yes, so you can prepare all you want but there’s always gonna be challenges that come up (1:05:44) It’s great to get started right away and get those get those feet wet and start charging.I mean, yeah, and (1:05:50) You know when you look at a lot of the guidelines and stuff like that (1:05:54) You know, it’s not even recommended to start a documentary until you have like proper funding have a proper budget (1:06:00) You know of how how you do things and I think there’s I just I just had um, I was just so clueless (1:06:06) You know, I had the audacity to be like idiot to just go out and just film it. However, I want (1:06:14) Do it all by myself. So it seemed to work out.Okay, and you probably learned a crap ton of things, right? (1:06:20) Oh hundred percent hundred percent learn learn so much from this process and just just filmmaking in general (1:06:25) You know, I always loved love love love movies (1:06:28) You know, my dad is a huge huge cinephile (1:06:32) So growing up I watched so many tons of great movies with him, you know silent films black-and-white films (1:06:39) Classic Hollywood, you know (1:06:42) French new wave stuff like that and (1:06:45) It’s always um, I think that that helped me a lot as well from a storytelling perspective (1:06:52) Absolutely because that was a lot more into the story back then right they didn’t have the visuals like they do now (1:06:58) Exactly. Exactly. What are the couple topics that you’re hoping to focus on in your next couple projects? (1:07:06) from a YouTube (1:07:08) YouTube one it’s uh (1:07:09) it’s gonna be about uh, I don’t give it away, but it’s gonna be a similar similar case of the MJ one, but it’s (1:07:19) It’s it’s not gonna be someone that well known to the mainstream audience (1:07:23) I don’t think except to stay tuned for that.So more of an investigation style. Okay (1:07:31) And for the one that I’m taking to the festival, that’s where I’m because I’ve been living in China for the past half a year (1:07:41) I’ve shot a I’ve shot a documentary in China (1:07:46) It’s not it’s not it’s not gonna be government related it’s gonna be a character study (1:07:51) It’s gonna be a character study and that sounds cool (1:07:54) Yeah, because there’s a lot of the times these things are so you can’t make a documentary about something in another country (1:08:02) Especially like China without it being politicized, you know, right you completely missed the point of how like day-to-day citizens live (1:08:10) But so we got half that done now (1:08:14) The other half is gonna be shot in the u.s (1:08:18) But many I can’t really travel to the u.s. Right now, so it’s gonna I’m gonna have to wait a little bit (1:08:25) So speaking of China in your in your YouTube documentary regarding kovat or corona virus what everyone to call it (1:08:33) When did you finally leave China? (1:08:37) When did I leave when my visa when my visa expired so that’s when you finally (1:08:43) Were able to leave the country. Yeah, I mean I would have stayed longer (1:08:48) Okay, because the situation there right now is a lot better than it is here in Vancouver, right (1:08:54) because like let me tell you how insane it was we had a (1:08:58) we like I I had a face I had my face mask on outside and I I (1:09:04) Kind of just like took it off to like kind of cough and this guy beside me was like did you hear what happened in? (1:09:09) This other city that was beside us and what happened was like someone got quarantined like that.That’s how it was (1:09:16) Like if you if you had at our peak in our city (1:09:19) We had around 20 cases and they were acting like it was like the end of the world man. It was insane (1:09:26) Wow, that was January February (1:09:30) Yes, every March. Okay, like for example right now (1:09:34) I hear that there’s a case in a mall and the mall don’t even close.So it’s like it’s very puzzling to me (1:09:39) Probably in the food court (1:09:43) I (1:09:43) Got a little fever a couple days and he’s got some explaining to do (1:09:48) Got a little fever a couple days ago and I had to go do a kovat test (1:09:51) Holy mackerel everything. Okay. Yeah.Yeah. I got the results today. Oh good another congratulations (1:10:00) Yeah, so (1:10:01) How is it? What are the conditions like up there? I mean, we don’t I don’t know anything about the conditions up there (1:10:06) I know that Arizona Florida and Texas had huge spikes because we decided to all get together again (1:10:13) It’s a big party (1:10:15) Canada I think I (1:10:19) Really don’t I really don’t even know I just I see cases like I just follow the Instagram page (1:10:24) that tells you where they have new cases and (1:10:28) It’s just it’s just puzzling to me that the malls will stay open when there’s a case inside the mall (1:10:32) It does seem odd.Well, Arizona yesterday had negative two cases negative two deaths. How do you have negative two cases? (1:10:39) I’m just letting you know, sir. I’m not good at math.That’s much crap. I think they over counted the day before it’s weird (1:10:45) We had like zero but we had over counted by two the day before so they gave us negative (1:10:50) So we’re improving greatly (1:10:53) Recovery in the world. We’re having resurrections apparently (1:10:57) Zombies (1:10:58) So yeah, but so is it like a whole mask up thing real quick? (1:11:01) I I don’t mind going back to like the other conversation (1:11:05) I was just curious what it’s like are they pretty strict about masks in Canada? Not really (1:11:10) I mean indoors yes, but outdoors barely anyone’s wearing them.Yeah, that’s pretty much here (1:11:16) But in the in the mall are all the stores open in the mall (1:11:19) Except the store that the person like got infected in which I don’t know how that works (1:11:25) You got to leave a mall. You got to go into it, you know (1:11:27) Yeah, wouldn’t you follow the video camera to see every store that? (1:11:31) China what would happen is that they would track this guy down and they would track every guy (1:11:37) This guy was near and then quarantine all of them (1:11:39) Like all days, for example, they had 12 cases in Beijing or four (1:11:44) It was like 12 cases or something like that and it was the internet went crazy. It was like, yeah, we’re we’re idiots (1:11:50) Like we’re gonna we’re screwing this up again (1:11:52) We’re the embarrassment of the world and they quarantine over 24,000 people.I think over that (1:11:59) Beijing has 20 million people right? Mm-hmm, and they had 12 cases (1:12:04) this was like during the recovery though, like during the right all of a sudden we had 12 and (1:12:10) and (1:12:10) You know the entire the entire country man (1:12:13) Was just they were just like that. We’re done. We’re gonna be Italy.This is gonna be worse (1:12:19) We’re gonna be worse than Wuhan like we’re screwing this up for everyone (1:12:22) It was just hilarious to see it but heck they’re really efficient. It seems like yeah because of the freaking (1:12:29) You know when it comes to stuff like this they they can like they can like hang their head up high (1:12:34) Yeah, but also it’s like (1:12:39) Because obviously everyone has heard about the whores of like how they have security cameras everywhere and stuff like that (1:12:44) But it’s like my my friend over there (1:12:47) He lost his dog and they were able to like trace his dog back to him to see where he ran (1:12:52) So that’s kind of like but it’s the same way with CCTV (1:12:56) I mean isn’t aren’t there other countries that are just as just the same London’s really good (1:13:02) I heard so how do you I can’t I can’t see that that’s (1:13:07) there’s other countries that are (1:13:10) Democratic or whatever word you want to use that have just as many cameras as China. Mm-hmm (1:13:15) I mean, oh, or maybe I’m totally full of crap.Yeah, I mean there’s a I think there’s a there’s also like the (1:13:23) Social Security score stuff like that, but I’m told by people there that it’s like no one’s really using it because it’s just it’s too (1:13:32) Many people to track, you know, so it’s more of a more of a thing. They say on the surface even (1:13:38) So even even with the censorship what happens is like they’re like they’re crazy ready sensor everything but what happens is um (1:13:45) There’s usually like a there’s usually like a few hour PR period (1:13:50) Where where they can’t censor everything because the flood of comments just come in (1:13:55) So you would I would go to sleep at night and everyone is like criticizing them and I wake up in the morning (1:14:01) Everything is gone. Oh my gosh (1:14:04) So they just like bombarded all at the same time and then they start deleting the manual as they (1:14:11) Go back and delete the comments.Basically the CCP they (1:14:17) That’s not the CCP, I don’t know the acronym can’t think of it this moment, but um the government can we just call him the state (1:14:24) Hey, just um, they they they censor everything that (1:14:27) That um that talks against them, you know, they hate criticism (1:14:31) Even even when I released a YouTube video, you know, I was kind of I was scared man (1:14:36) Like her I’ve heard horror stories of people people like going missing for stuff like this, you know posting something anti (1:14:43) like not exactly like saying they did a great job, you know, and I (1:14:49) found out because I (1:14:50) Know a lot of people there in these type of things that if you do it if you tell if you like (1:14:56) Talk bad about them outside of China like it’s usually fine (1:15:00) But if you do it like in a Chinese network, like then you’re toast (1:15:04) Yeah, I can imagine (1:15:06) That would almost be like treasonous. I would think yeah, I’m not gonna get to to (1:15:11) Too much into this though, because I don’t know. I’m happy to step away from that.Yeah, I’m just curious (1:15:20) I’m just curious because it’s an environment that I know very little about and I’m that’s my how my brain works that if there’s something (1:15:27) Anything that I don’t know about I ask questions about because I liked to know stuff about stuff that I don’t know about (1:15:33) Yeah, we Chris and I have no other agenda other than our innate curiosity about things (1:15:40) Yeah, yeah, I separate the Chinese culture from the Chinese government (1:15:45) Absolutely. I love how you mentioned that on yes and that YouTube videos and then that’s so true (1:15:51) It’s like the people are kind warm gentle people that has nothing to do with the state that’s running things (1:15:57) I know people people sometimes just they can’t they can’t seem to (1:16:01) Like find a difference, you know (1:16:04) It seems obvious. There’s a huge difference.It’s kind of sad, but it is very sad (1:16:10) Because I guess there’s also like a pretty freaking big like vocal (1:16:15) nationalistic like (1:16:17) Chinese (1:16:19) Group but it’s like what do you expect them to do but it’s literally like (1:16:24) You can’t just like you can’t be like a license to be racist towards them, you know, right? Yeah, right (1:16:31) It’s it’s an it’s unfortunate. I mean, but that’s the that’s the thing (1:16:35) That’s divide-and-conquer by other like information news sources (1:16:38) They kind of want us going at each other so they can do their own stuff behind this (1:16:43) like I live in a pretty (1:16:45) Asian there’s a lot of Asians in Vancouver (1:16:48) But even at the mall (1:16:50) like when I first got out of self-isolation, I went to the mall and (1:16:55) There was this there’s this older white gentleman who was just going off at this like Asian guy (1:17:02) Like old guy and the old I didn’t know what they were saying (1:17:06) But the old guy was just repeating like hey, it’s 2020. Stop saying that to me.It’s 2020 man. It’s 2020 (1:17:11) It was just heartbreaking to watch (1:17:14) Wow (1:17:14) And you know, even even a I think a couple of weeks ago (1:17:18) So I was walking I was walking to get a popcorn (1:17:23) And someone pushed me from behind and said learn to walk straight (1:17:29) and I’m like like I just said fuck out of here and (1:17:33) The guy comes back to me all up in my face and he’s just like (1:17:38) Hating me like following like he started he started following me for like a few steps (1:17:43) Vancouver. Yeah, this is in Richmond.I had it on video. It was on my Instagram story Wow, and (1:17:53) Social media, I’m sorry tangent tangent (1:17:57) Social media I suck at you guys gotta get into that if you I’m trying I’m trying my hardest man (1:18:02) I’m burned out after like a month (1:18:05) Mm-hmm, and I just started so I apologize for my (1:18:10) Novice amateurs Danny my dogs will follow you on Instagram right after this (1:18:15) Thank you so much Anita (1:18:17) Need them Instagram followers, you know, we will vote we will do both. Can you tell us the Instagram? Is it at Danny Wu? (1:18:24) Dy woo dy w you that’s my nickname y w you got it (1:18:30) Then get nicknamed dy woo and my actual name has less syllables nice (1:18:36) That’s ironic.Isn’t that funny? So how’d you get the nickname? No, I’m just kidding. I obviously know how you get the nickname (1:18:42) There’s a Danny you woo. That’s my um, it’s my phone name (1:18:46) Very nice, and that’s your inst.That’s your Twitter. I think right at Danny Danny. Will you it’s like yeah (1:18:54) Nice.Excellent. All right. See we got you.I followed you on that one. I just don’t know (1:18:58) I don’t I like I said, I’ve got a face for podcasting. So I don’t take many pictures.You’re not an Instagrammer (1:19:05) I am NOT a grammar of the in just take pictures of your food, bro (1:19:08) Maybe I’ll do that. See tell me you’re welcome. Thank you.I want some stuff (1:19:14) Yes, I haven’t seen what you guys look like but um, you definitely have a voice thank you (1:19:22) That’s why there’s a dog only is (1:19:26) We tried really hard actually we found I think to your point you were talking about sound like quality, right? (1:19:32) When we started this we want this to have some kind of purpose to it (1:19:36) And we felt we invested a good amount of money into the studio equipment just to make the quality sound (1:19:43) You know acceptable, you know, we want it to sound good and professionally done. We actually care about the topics that we talked about (1:19:50) Mm-hmm. I think yeah, you’re my quality is just it’s incredible (1:19:55) Thank you.Sure SM 7b (1:19:58) And by the way, I don’t know if did you did you hear that? This is the microphone (1:20:01) This is the the following microphone. The predecessor microphone was the one Michael Jackson used to record a thriller Wow (1:20:09) Yeah, the sure I said I did. I did think I heard it you guys mentioned on the last podcast I did (1:20:15) Yes, correct (1:20:16) So these are actually the 7b is the following of the SM 7 which is the one Michael Jackson used to record thriller (1:20:23) The album not just the song.I mean my wow, I’m still I’m still like shocked about it. But you know, I (1:20:30) Knew it but it wasn’t it wasn’t fake. I’m stressing.Yeah, we’re just full of crap over here too. That’s cool. We’re good (1:20:38) That’s all my questions Marcus.So is there anything else you want to share with us Danny? (1:20:42) Tell us a little bit more obviously we want to make sure that you get the (1:20:46) Proper recognition for all the hard work you put into this and and once again be clear (1:20:51) We’re we always want to offer someone to express themselves. We’re not here to take a side or anything (1:20:56) We’re gonna release this exactly how we recorded it. So, you know, we just wanted to honor that, you know (1:21:02) Give you that honor as well.So if there’s anything else you want to share and give us all your (1:21:07) Ways to get a hold of you so we can add to your following just please please go ahead and state them now (1:21:12) Well, we’ll put them on the website as well (1:21:14) It is just like search Danny will usually I’ll come up and just follow me there (1:21:20) perfect (1:21:21) Except Instagram is dy who? (1:21:24) Do you I woo? Yeah, and that was instant. We know we’re gonna we’re gonna both follow you look for Roxy underscore and underscore Anders (1:21:32) That’s it the two dogs. There’s gonna be that’s gonna be Chris’s two dogs (1:21:36) I haven’t I haven’t done a podcast in a long long time.Well, thank you so much for your time (1:21:42) I mean, this was great for us because we we wanted to get to know you also (1:21:45) We didn’t we didn’t just want to make this a square one centric type thing (1:21:49) But we want to hear your stories and you know get to know you so if you’re in Phoenix, let us know we’re here (1:21:55) We’d love to we’d love maybe we can break bread sometime. I have good good friend Edwin that lives in lives in Phoenix (1:22:01) He’s also um a big big youtuber that I (1:22:04) Met at one of the premieres (1:22:07) Excellent. Yeah, we could love to get in touch with me.We could do collaborate on something. Yeah. Yeah, it sounds good, man (1:22:12) Danny, thank you so much for for being with us.Once again. This has been a Knocked Conscious episode Christopher. Would you like to say? (1:22:20) Cello or anti-ghost.Thank you, Danny. Really appreciate your time. Thank you so much.Thank you (1:22:24) Once again, we were here with Danny Wu the producer and director of square one documentary Danny. Thank you so much again (1:22:32) We’re gonna be out of here. Please check us out and Knocked Conscious.Thanks so much