Transcript of my conversation with Dr. Joel F. Wade 6/30/2024

(0:00) Hey everybody and welcome to another episode of Knocked Conscious today the pleasure of speaking with Dr. Joel F (0:06) Wade, he's the author of Mastering happiness and he will be at Freedom Fest next week (0:11) Log on to freedomfest.com put in the code CONSCIOUS5050 for $50 off the current package come to Vegas (0:17) Join us. It was a really great conversation. Here it is. I hope you enjoy it (0:22) Hey everybody and welcome to another episode of Knocked Conscious today. I have the pleasure of speaking with Dr. (0:29) Joel F. Wade. He is the author of (0:33) Oh, hold on mastering that's it. I'm masked because I haven't mastered yet. That's why I don't know it. He's the author of Mastering Happiness (0:43) Thank you, Dr (0:44) So Joel Wade is going to be at Freedom Fest (0:47) Now if you log on to freedom fest comm and you put in the code conscious 50 you get $50 off (0:53) It's in a week guys, July 10th through the 13th in Vegas. Come on. It's Caesars (0:58) It's gonna be Harrah’s. It's gonna be so much fun. We're gonna have a great time (1:01) I'm actually looking forward to meeting the good doctor at Freedom Fest. Dr. Wade. Welcome, Joel. Welcome to knocked conscious (1:09) Thank you so much for joining us. Tell us about your (1:12) Freedom Fest (1:14) Experience and and what you're going to be doing with their with them (1:18) I've been speaking at Freedom Fest for probably I think a dozen years or so now and I just said a great group of people (1:25) and I (1:28) It's a (1:30) Curious group of people and so (1:33) Curiosity is is really kind of an essential ingredient that I think you and I share (1:40) and (1:41) and so I'm going to be talking about I'm a marriage and family therapist and a life coach and I've written some books and and (1:49) my (1:50) What I'm going to be talking about Freedom Fest is how to be more yourself (1:56) Which is a which is kind of a big topic because you have to figure out, you know, what is this up? (2:01) well, you know, what do I mean by that and and (2:05) and then how to (2:07) How do we? (2:10) Be just how do we become disconnected from ourselves in different ways and how do we? (2:16) lose ourselves in some ways and how do we regain our sense of self and our sense of (2:21) direction and integrity and (2:24) When I say integrity, I don't mean it in in a moral sense (2:28) I mean it in a sense of integration like like we're we're congruent within ourselves and (2:36) Symbiotic relationship in a way or (2:40) You know, yeah so that so that there's not parts of me going one way and parts of me fighting that and (2:47) it's easy to get into into internal struggles and (2:50) And (2:53) And there's all kinds of sort of pop psychology (2:58) Language about that process like you have a gremlin or yourself (3:03) Sabotaging or things like that when really a inner demon comes shadow and this yeah (3:09) But really it comes down to there's there's there's parts for ourselves (3:13) We might have a really young part of ourselves that got a belief that say, you know (3:20) money is the root of all evil and (3:23) Then meanwhile, I'm trying to make a living and part of me is going.No, no, no. No, that's evil (3:27) I don't want to be evil. And and so it's it's not something, you know (3:32) Some dark force.It's just a part of me. That's that got a rotten belief in there and fighting and (3:40) so (3:41) The less we fight ourselves and the more we can have sort of a deep acceptance of all of who we are (3:48) The easier the process of integration can be and kind of (3:53) regaining these parts of ourselves that can be just sort of lost or (3:59) You know (4:01) peeled off here and there (4:04) And so that there's a whole there's a lot of work that goes into that over a lifetime because we're complicated critters (4:13) Yeah, I didn't start seeking therapy until 40. So (4:17) I know that midlife thing where you hit that wall.It didn't feel right kind of thing and (4:23) yeah, I it was a lot and I'm it's a continuous thing and it's funny because I did watch your your piece about that money being (4:31) the root of all evil and I (4:34) I'm kind of dancing that real fine line at this moment because I'm looking to monetize the podcast for example (4:40) but I don't want to get corrupted by the (4:43) Misinformation and the you know, the deep fakes and all the other stuff (4:47) I don't want to be beholden to the people who could possibly fund it, right? (4:51) Right. Oh, it's almost like I don't so that that inability to step forward doesn't allow you to grow to the way you want (4:58) You know what? I mean, and it really is (4:59) Yeah, and and the the more we're in touch with you know different (5:06) Different thoughts or beliefs or or values that we have and can bring them to consciousness (5:14) The more awareness we can have of how we're interacting with the world. So it's (5:21) It's kind of like in a more extreme way when when when people have had a traumatic experience (5:27) Maybe they've been attacked and then they're hyper vigilant for for another attack (5:32) Yet it sort of paradoxically makes us less able to respond (5:38) because (5:39) if everything is a threat then you don't have that fine-tuning sense of oh (5:46) This is different than than the normal.I (5:50) better look out (5:52) And so make is different than your friend jumping from behind the bush, right? (5:56) Exactly, right, you know, right (5:59) so so (6:00) And and it's not a matter of you know, there's something (6:06) Broken or necessarily there's something bad that happened to us. I think even if we've had the most wonderful (6:14) Childhood with wonderful people. We still have this incredible complexity (6:21) in us (6:22) to master to figure out and understand and and and master so (6:28) And there is a genetic variance to that let us let us not get ourselves (6:32) I mean we we have you know (6:34) It's nature versus nurture (6:35) But we do clearly see genetic patterns and genetic for example (6:40) Like if you had first cousins getting together and having a child there's a possible genetic mutation there (6:44) so we have genetic pieces that play into the overall picture of (6:49) that help (6:51) You know, we we tend to think about okay (6:55) Maybe I have a tendency toward depression or anxiety or obsessive compulsive or any any number of different (7:03) you know symptoms (7:05) As an individual those are hard (7:08) but if you think in terms of our ancestors for almost all of human history, we're in small bands of hunter-gatherers and (7:18) Nature wanted us wanted those bands to survive (7:22) So you needed for that to happen (7:25) It's really good to have somebody that's bold and wants to go take down that mastodon (7:31) But you also want somebody that's a little anxious and saying, you know, don't go pet those saber-toothed tiger kittens, you know (7:39) Let's not go there.So there's a whole range of awareness and and (7:45) different styles of being that would serve a group (7:49) But not necessarily each individual ideally right and that's a great point that you make there because in in a civilization for example (7:58) We talk about chaos and and structure right or that, you know (8:02) That whole like Jordan Peterson kind of you know (8:04) Order and chaos kind of piece the order is what keeps the society glued together (8:08) And the chaos is what allows us to take those little fringe steps (8:12) to explore these possibility of other other (8:19) Opportunities, for example. Yeah, and if we don't have that foundation we lose that (8:23) We become a theory and we have nothing that we're grounded (8:27) We're finding that in today's society in a way to some extent right and then but if we're too grounded (8:32) We can't grow for that next event that we're not prepared to be malleable enough or adaptive enough for (8:40) Exactly, and and there's a lot to adapt to (8:44) Things are changing quickly and and technology is not helping actually we're not we're so behind biologically (8:52) From technology in my opinion. Yeah, but but that is part of (8:57) Ourselves to master because we we've created that and so it's part of our challenge and you know (9:05) when the telephone first came out it probably was was (9:10) Wonderful and horrible lots of ways talk about demons coming through (9:14) Yeah (9:15) Same with television or cars or you know (9:19) the airplanes (9:21) everything that we (9:22) That we enjoy has a you know potential downside and it's our challenge (9:29) to master those to (9:32) To figure out how do we negotiate this for for example? (9:36) We don't look at everything like a tool right like everything should be a tool (9:40) Yeah, not good or bad (9:42) For example, you you spoke about your your money right an emotional tied to money (9:45) and I was a poker player for I was like a degenerate poker player for a handful of years and (9:51) Literally, I live in Phoenix, but I was comped every month to play a weekend of poker up in Vegas (9:57) So I would drive up literally I drive up every weekend or you know (10:01) One week in a month for like five years straight and I play for 30 40 hours out of a you know (10:07) 52 hours, you know there or something, right? Yeah, and I (10:13) I'm a more conservative poker player (10:15) so I like to try to read people whatever but when it comes down to that pressure and (10:20) My emotions are tied to those chips on the table (10:22) It's much harder to make that level-headed conscious decision of is this correct? (10:28) Is this incorrect you start hoarding and holding and you actually lose more by holding? (10:34) Absolutely.Yeah, and and when you use the chips as a tool just to get your means as a means to an ends (10:41) It's easier I guess in a way because you remove that emotional side of it (10:46) you know, you give yourself a little distance between yourself and your emotions and (10:52) That's that's when we can be conscious of something because there's all kinds of biases in in thinking that (11:00) For almost everything served us. Well, you know, we have a we have a bias toward the status quo (11:07) We like what's familiar with most things. That's great, but not everything, you know, sometimes (11:14) There's a my right (11:16) The most acceptable yet or most advanced yet acceptable, right? (11:21) There was a Maya principle where like we only accept that Overton window and we need to shift those things, right? (11:26) So when I think there was a new steam engine that had come out that was so radical (11:31) From its original that it wasn't it didn't harken to the old.It didn't connect enough to the old and it wasn't (11:38) accepted in the way that it would have been had it had a little bit of the (11:42) Original pieces like that history kind of tied to in a way and and that you know (11:48) You look at that in a specific example and you go. Oh, you know, that's that's so dumb or that's you know, why did we? (11:56) Do that? That's a flaw but for 90% of everything we do is (12:03) Really helpful because we can't think about every little thing (12:07) Most of what we what we do in life is fairly autumn automated, you know, it's yeah (12:14) we're creatures of habit and it's a good thing because (12:19) There's a lot to deal with every day (12:22) Yeah, we talked about this and how many actual processes that it's actually doing about your environment (12:28) And really the only thing you're looking for is anything outside of that blueprint that you put in that you assume is going to be (12:36) There and that's only the attention we have brains brain for if we had be conscious about every piece (12:41) I mean our breathing is autonomous, right? We can't force ourselves not to breathe for example (12:45) Yeah, a lot of a lot of what our consciousness is about is reflecting on what just happened and making sense of it (12:54) And and it works really well. I mean, it's (13:01) But there are times when we it's important to bring consciousness special consciousness to (13:06) Okay, I'm gonna be playing poker here.I know (13:09) the tendency is to want to (13:13) You know here here's where I get in trouble and then you can bring consciousness to that give yourself some emotional distance (13:20) And the odds are better in your favor then (13:24) Yeah, but (13:25) I don't I I see most of the things that we struggle with as human beings as not (13:31) You know, oh, here's a flaw or i'm broken or there's something wrong with me or some dark force (13:38) It's something that I don't understand yet (13:41) and or it's it's it's a it's a (13:45) Belief that I haven't identified yet that's affecting me and those are the scariest ones (13:50) I mean those are the scariest ones because I (13:53) We many times go back to the people who were victims of right (13:57) We we or we stay in abusive relationships or things like that because it's comfortable to your point is (14:01) It is almost the scariness of the unknown that is greater (14:05) Because of those weird potentials that aren't there they they haven't even materialized and here we are freaking out about what might be right (14:13) Yeah. Well, yeah, the unknown is a is a scary place and we we try to avoid it and (14:18) You know some of us are more drawn to novelty and looking for that (14:24) And some of us are less and that's a temperament thing that we come into the world with (14:29) but (14:30) when it's really unknown, it is a scary thing because (14:36) part of what happens is (14:39) What when we're going into something that that's not familiar that's unknown (14:44) There's kind of an empty place where our certainty used to be (14:48) And it's that emptiness that scares us and gets us running back to the familiar (14:54) With even though the familiar might be an awful place (14:58) so if you can (15:00) Trust that emptiness for a time and just stay with it. Trust that something else will will flow in (15:08) uh, i've (15:09) That's something i've experienced myself (15:12) Often and i've experienced it with my clients.I've seen my clients (15:17) Experience that often over the i've been (15:21) Working doing this work for 40 plus years now (15:25) and (15:26) If you can hang in there with that empty place (15:29) It always fills in with something more. There's a there's resources that we don't know about that will come in (15:35) And that we can find and strengthen us that we don't know that we can find (15:41) Yeah, and and aversion therapy is not the answer right (15:44) It's you have to face though. That's really when you face those fears or those those fears of the unknown (15:49) You have to face them you have you have to you cannot run and hide because eventually (15:55) Those fears will come to the point where there is nowhere left to hide and you are wholly unprepared to face anything at that point (16:02) Yeah, well you have to face them (16:05) but (16:06) We can only face them to the degree we can it's like (16:09) Oh, absolutely, but it but but there is a the requirement to the point that we can we do yeah, right.Yeah. Yeah (16:17) and and frankly, you know (16:20) if I think of (16:22) everything in life that i'm most proud of and most (16:25) uh grateful for (16:28) At one point or another I was, you know, maybe terrified (16:33) Or or at least relationships (16:36) Asking asking out the first time right? Yep, I can imagine that absolutely (16:42) yeah, and and uh (16:44) But going into a situation that that's that's new that you haven't you don't haven't mastered yet (16:51) uh (16:52) any number of things, um (16:55) And i'm sure you I mean (16:58) From how you responded you understand that right? (17:02) and i'm sure the (17:04) the (17:05) listeners, you know anybody listening (17:07) If you reflect you you'll find that things you're proud of you were once really scared of that's part of why you're proud of (17:15) Because it took we're standing here. I don't do this in front of a cat.This is not what I am (17:20) I'm i'm this is my means so I could have conversations like this (17:24) Yeah, yeah, you know, it's almost like a backwards thing (17:26) It's like this is the only way to do it is to do a podcast if I could do it anonymously and I could meet (17:32) Brilliant people on the street just and just have conversations over coffee. I do that all day, but it's just not the way right? (17:40) Yeah, you know (17:42) Yeah, so with that comes these other things that i'm willing to take on these other responsibilities, right? (17:46) Like exactly i'm doing a website and all this other stuff (17:49) Those are the sacrifices that we make for the for the whole of that opportunity to get what we want (17:56) Exactly. Everything's a trade-off (17:58) Yeah, oh it's thomas soul to the greatest it's there are no there are no uh, uh solutions just trade-offs, right? Yeah.Yep (18:07) Yeah, so so you you have this happiness and I actually come from happiness in a very different way (18:13) I probably come from the trauma (18:15) I I hate I don't want to say victim side. That's a ridiculous thing (18:18) I I don't that's not a thing and I mean obviously it is people are victims of things but i'm not sure i'm not personally (18:25) I just (18:26) But I can say that I came from the trauma side so for example I (18:31) On me i'm very hard on myself because of my upbringing of having two german parents (18:36) Who are the most amazing people in the world? (18:39) And I can't live up to them because they are just so amazing because they literally are just I mean my mother (18:45) Was born in 44 in germany and my dad was born in 1940 in germany. So you can only imagine what that was like (18:51) so (18:52) My mom escaped from east germany in 53.I mean it's it's a story so like when I when you know, it's like i'm i'm almost (19:01) uh, like anchoring my legacy or their legacy to me because they came all the way over here and met here and like (19:07) I just want to be able to (19:10) You know for make a purpose or meaning for them coming here. You know what I mean for them escaping their tyranny for example. Yeah (19:18) Yeah, and that's a that's a heavy obligation (19:22) Yeah, and how do I how do I manage something like that? You know, that's like that's that's where that mass the mastering comes in (19:27) I guess right (19:29) Yeah, and and also (19:32) I think um (19:35) Having the perspective, I think most parents what they wanted that (19:43) The bottom line is for their kids to be happy and successful (19:48) Oh, absolutely, and my parents once again, I want to be clear I absolutely love them without them (19:54) Yeah, i'm not doing anything with my life.I can guarantee you that (19:58) Yeah, but but we can also have as kids growing up. We can have all kinds of (20:06) Imaginations within our own self of what we're supposed to be doing or what's (20:10) What we think is expected of us (20:14) That really are (20:15) And and yeah (20:17) and it's something that we created ourselves from you know, we get impressions we we (20:25) misunderstand things we and and (20:27) From a child's eye view it can seem this way when from an adult if you were in that situation you go. Oh (20:34) Well, they were just you know that had nothing to do with me that whatever I took in (20:40) um (20:41) 100 (20:42) Yeah (20:43) Yeah, how many how many how much time do how many times do you think kids internalize now? (20:48) It's good because they forget.I mean, it's like shiny metal object, but they internalize these little moments in time (20:54) Yeah, you know what I mean? And then they let them go pretty quickly (20:56) But yeah as adults we kind of hold on to a little longer I think (21:01) well, you know (21:04) We we tend to remember we think of our memories as sort of a video camera of life (21:11) But we tend to remember (21:13) the meaning that we make of events (21:18) So if I if something happens and I I don't know get hurt when i'm growing up (21:24) I I can interpret that as oh no, I better be very careful the rest of my life (21:30) Or I can interpret that as wow. That was a great adventure (21:35) Let's do it again (21:37) But yeah, but but now I know to be cautious in this particular place (21:41) we can (21:42) we can (21:43) We create so much meaning within ourselves with our experience (21:48) and uh, there there's (21:51) Marty Seligman, who's one of my my favorite. Uh (21:55) psychologists who (21:57) uh, he he began the positive psychology (22:01) feel (22:02) that about 25 years ago and uh (22:05) Oh, so is that is that what it's called the positive psychology feel is that kind of the the true the name of it? (22:11) Yeah, yeah, and that's part of what where I come from with with my okay.Yeah, that's why mastering happiness is (22:19) And right and we'll delve into that for sure. Okay. Yeah.So yeah, so tell me more about tell them I do to know the name (22:25) I've i've heard the name before. Oh, yeah, he's he's he's fantastic (22:32) Very essential reading for anybody interested in cognitive psychology or or (22:37) or happiness (22:38) His book authentic happiness (22:42) uh (22:43) but (22:44) part of what he talks about in in one of his books is how (22:49) What happens in our childhood? (22:52) is not (22:53) I mean if there's if there's trauma or abuse or neglect (22:59) To a certain degree, of course that affects us (23:03) That has a deep effect (23:05) but (23:06) It (23:07) Um, our experiences growing up are not as important to our happiness as an adult as we think they are (23:16) Much more important is the meaning we make of things (23:20) It was beginning around around 20 (23:23) And how would the choices we begin to make then now granted (23:29) Those choices are colored by our past experience (23:32) And we can see it through the lens of our past experience (23:36) but (23:37) It's still very much in our hands what we what we do with it and then the directions we take (23:45) But if you're but if your lens is so myopic (23:48) I mean that that's where I think I think that's where the challenge comes in because I think I come from the other side of (23:53) The psychology it's not to counter your I think I think they are hand in glove. I don't think they're (23:58) I think don't I don't think one discounts the other in a way, right? (24:01) Yeah, I see that the the myopic perception (24:06) Creates those outcomes, right if you get the wrong information or the wrong filter if you're using the wrong calculation (24:12) You're going to come out the wrong answer, right? (24:14) So that does then in turn as a child could help form those perceptions, I guess and those are the things (24:20) And I think those are the things I think we're subconsciously unaware of (24:25) And the reason I call my podcast knocked conscious is because in at 40 it was an event that I had that (24:33) it was like knocked me conscious and (24:35) Many times i'll go into a moment (24:38) It's like a count to three before I respond (24:40) Count to five before I act or count to ten before I do anything because I have to take away that emotional side (24:48) Yeah, that'll because my instinct is to be emotional about things (24:52) Uh, okay (24:54) is that (24:56) Is that something that that you talk about is that something that i'm curious what that was (25:03) Uh, what what the event was? (25:05) Yeah.Yeah. Oh (25:07) Yeah, so at I I do talk about it and I don't want to i'll share with you (25:12) Certainly when we meet probably as well, but um, I started working with an nlp therapist at 40 (25:19) And I just set my you know (25:21) How people have like rock bottom like people go to aa when they have an automobile accident or a motorcycle crash and they almost die (25:26) My rock bottom was like I don't know if I want to be here that much anymore (25:30) Like literally it was like kind of like that first. I gotta I gotta take care of it right away (25:34) so I met a guy and (25:37) What it was was he he did a he did a meditation or hypnosis not a hypnosis.It was like a meditation (25:43) A guided meditation on the beach and I saw pictures and whatever (25:46) And no lie, this is what happened. I can only tell you what I experienced (25:51) I saw the shooting in of uh clementa pinkney in south carolina (25:56) And it was the first (25:58) meditation I ever did (26:00) And I saw exactly what like a video of him doing exactly what I saw and like a pop a flash (26:08) and I came out of the meditation with like (26:11) emotionally moved (26:12) And I said I saw this and he looked at me he said it either happened somewhere else another dimension (26:17) where it's going to happen here and I was like (26:20) What are you talking about? Because it was 2015. I thought it was obama because it was a black man in a suit behind a podium (26:28) it's a real weird thing, but (26:31) Yeah, so I was literally knocked conscious (26:33) so since then i've had (26:36) myriad very paranormal experiences that (26:39) I have both the I came from intellectual side.So i'm trying to debunk my own experiences to be honest. Oh, yeah (26:45) Yeah, and i'm trying to understand why I experience what I do (26:49) and (26:49) it's interesting you come from the happiness side because like from my side of happiness, I always look to happiness as contrast because it's like (26:57) Don't know what happiness is until you experience kind of the opposite, right? (27:02) So when people say i'm looking to be perfect, I want a perfect life (27:06) Yeah, this is impossible people because (27:10) the only way you can experience what perfect perfect is to experience the (27:14) Up the complete opposite of that because you can only contrast it to that (27:18) And if I don't think anyone could make it through the opposite of perfect to get to perfect, you know what I mean? (27:24) You can only get through struggle to get to greatness right in in a way (27:28) Right. Yeah, and the more you struggle usually the greatness is the higher right the risk reward kind of piece that we talk about (27:34) And and that's how i've always seen it and that's why i've always seen the declaration it's a more perfect union (27:40) It's not the perfect union.It's a it's the strive to make it better every step (27:46) Yeah, yeah perfect perfection is not (27:50) That's not the the idea (27:53) There's we're too (27:55) Every one of us is so unique (27:58) And every one of us you talked about myopia (28:02) We have so many blind spots (28:06) And and that's not a fault (28:08) That's not something broken. It's a feature. It's a feature not a bug, right? (28:13) yeah, it's it's it's (28:15) how we (28:16) we get a little slice of (28:19) Perception of of what is going on and then we have our experience (28:25) To interpret that through and the stories and the beliefs that we've established (28:30) To interpret that through and and it takes a lifetime and 64 (28:38) And (28:40) Anybody listening that's been around for a while, you know that you're a different person than you were 10 years ago (28:47) And and 20 years ago you're you're (28:50) you're (28:52) If you've been in life at all, you've had to learn some tough lessons and some fun lessons and some (28:59) You know challenging lessons.It can't rain every day (29:02) There is going to be some rain (29:05) Yeah, absolutely. And and but that's (29:08) We learned the most from failure. That's I mean, there's there's research even in in (29:14) around businesses that work groups (29:17) uh (29:18) The successes we hardly learn from (29:23) Failure is what we learn from (29:26) Unfortunately because (29:27) I don't like failure.You like failure. I don't I don't think anyone likes failure (29:33) but (29:34) failure is is how we (29:37) Are are brought to awareness of our blind spots (29:41) Yeah, or what we need to improve what we need to work on (29:45) And I mean look at that thomas said the thomas edison quote I found, you know, I didn't find 10 000 wrong ways (29:51) I found 10 000 (29:52) Different ways to not make it I guess, you know, it's like exactly look at it from that side from that perspective of it (29:57) Yeah, so if you take it as feedback instead of uh, like a moral (30:03) judgment of your character (30:05) Now there's a big difference between doing something deliberately to hurt another person (30:11) And making a mistake (30:12) Or or trying and failing at somebody at something (30:17) um, so (30:19) There there are you know (30:22) Well, if I may use an example because i'm going to call him out as chris cuomo is a great example (30:27) If if he had a little humility (30:29) A little a little bit of great a little bit of anything coming out of what he has learned (30:36) This genius that all of a sudden is telling me how to live my life when i've known for a handful of years now (30:42) Yeah, if he had a little bit of humility, I could offer him grace (30:45) But he's been given myriad chances to offer that humility without doing so (30:51) He's actually kind of scoffed at it for example, so he doesn't get that grace (30:55) But most people don't intend to hurt others (30:58) And when they if we realize that i'm so yes, I did do it (31:02) I didn't intend it and with if someone's able to come come to someone with that open hand and that gesture (31:09) I'm hoping that someone would be able to offer the grace in return (31:13) to accept them (31:15) for their apology (31:16) And that's mostly how we operate (31:19) Really with uh, I mean we can hold grudges and we can (31:24) Right. Yeah, and that happens.No, no doubt. No doubt (31:28) Yeah (31:28) Yeah, so it's um (31:36) Yeah, i've forgotten our where (31:39) Let's go to happiness (31:41) What what how how would you I mean? (31:44) I I guess would do you have a definition of happiness in your book or a general concept of happiness? (31:50) How how would you see? Yeah? (31:52) so so (31:53) I like how aristotle talked about it and and uh, he used the the term eudaimonia (32:01) Which you know back then there the the idea was there's a demon (32:05) it's almost like in the cartoons a little devil and a little angel on your shoulder and and (32:11) so eudaimonia is about (32:14) basically (32:15) uh (32:18) Success at living well (32:21) So so it's what are what are the what are the habits? (32:25) What are the the ways the the styles of living? (32:29) That are successful that that bring you (32:33) good relationships (32:37) Where you're effective at work where you're (32:41) And there's some there's some big satisfactions that charles murray talked about the the great satisfactions (32:47) There's a handful of them, you know (32:49) Having something you're good at (32:52) Yeah, you got status money fame power anything. It gives you those types of things (32:56) well (32:57) it's it's (32:58) Having something that you're good at having a having a skill that you can do (33:04) That that's a deep sense that you'd be proud of that.You can say this is mine (33:08) I display this for all to see and to well also that that you're you're useful (33:14) To the people in your life, absolutely. Yeah, it's a tribal thing (33:17) It's an evolutionary tribal piece that you had to be able to be productive within the plan and somehow in some way (33:24) And relationships like the marriage and and uh, parenting and friendships and (33:33) having (33:34) being good to the people in your life being uh (33:38) someone (33:38) That mattering in your community having something that you offer to your community (33:46) Those are (33:47) kind of the deep satisfactions of life and it's all about (33:50) uh, it's not about having everything go your way or being perfect or or (33:57) Having a bunch of stuff that you want (34:00) Getting stuff that you want though. That's nice.It's not about uh having (34:05) Really enjoyable times all the time though. That's nice, too. I like having enjoyable (34:11) I mean once again contrast you how how can you possibly appreciate all good? (34:15) If there's nothing against which you can compare it (34:19) Exactly.It just would be a lot of flat line of hat like but here's happy here's sad (34:24) And there'd just be a flat line across the middle. There's no well and frankly, that's the problem with these little gizmos (34:31) is um (34:33) For kids particularly (34:36) is you (34:36) On on social media, you'll you'll see all these perfect lives (34:43) All these people that are so happy. They're the best moments that they're posting (34:49) And then you compare your own life and gosh, I had kind of an okay day today (34:54) You know, I went to work.Is it roosevelt that said a comparison is a thief of joy. Is that I think it was roosevelt (35:01) uh (35:01) A lot of people out it's it's it absolutely is if you want to be miserable compare yourself to other people (35:11) And what's funny it to the point is those lives aren't even real (35:15) It's one thing if people were actually excelling these children are putting debt on credit cards to rent like (35:21) Something that looks like an airplane for an hour so they can take pictures in it and uh, (35:26) Hopefully get some status to maybe get to the next level and it's a very interesting (35:31) way of how it's changed how quickly that's (35:34) An evolution or i'm sorry technology certainly exacerbated or sped up that process for sure. Yeah (35:41) and hopefully, you know, i'm hopeful that that will get a handle on it and and (35:47) you know that (35:49) people that are younger than me that are more in the soup with that will find ways of (35:54) Of not being so sucked into it (35:57) um (35:58) but (36:00) That kind of comparison is a miserable experience (36:04) miserable miserable experience (36:07) And so really when I when I talk about happiness, it's about (36:11) It's about (36:13) uh being happy (36:15) with (36:16) How you're living? (36:18) Being happy about yourself (36:21) um (36:21) Rather than just having a happy time (36:25) When kind of doing doing the things (36:27) The right things like it's kind of like if you have the correct (36:32) uh behaviors (36:34) The happiness should be an emergent property from those behaviors (36:38) Exactly.Exactly. It's it's a it's kind of a reward for for living the way that that you value (36:46) And (36:47) We talk about that delayed reward system, right? We we have to plant a seed to grow the crop (36:51) It's can't we can't just eat the food. That's not just there right the two marshmallow problem, right? (36:56) I'll give you two later or one now (36:58) You know kind of exactly (37:00) Yeah (37:01) and actually, um (37:04) Yeah, so that (37:09) If you want to be miserable you compare yourself to other people (37:13) But also if you try and just have happy times all the time (37:17) That's another recipe for misery because because then you chase you're just going you're chasing you (37:23) You're going for the emotion (37:26) of of joy and (37:29) um (37:31) There's no you're not building anything better.Yeah, I can say I resemble that in a way I had a lot of hobbies (37:38) You know, i'll be 50 this year and it's one of those things where i've always had a hobby (37:43) But many times it's fleeting because i've gotten very excited about it (37:48) and then (37:49) It's burned out (37:51) Yeah, because my emotion changes so quick, you know something like that or or just my taste right? (37:57) So it's I just I get so hard into something and then i'm out (38:00) and like for example (38:01) I just upgraded for all the equipment for this just for freedom fest for example, and it's like three thousand dollars (38:07) But I want the conversation. I am all in you know, I like i've found it (38:12) I think you know what I mean? You have to find it that one thing for you. Well, that's that's the (38:18) um (38:19) You want to find something that's meaningful (38:22) Yeah (38:23) And and that's that's what we that you can build and grow (38:29) From and then that satisfaction is something (38:32) That allows you to put the energy into it (38:35) I mean, that's what what work's all about right you you get to I think of work as play for adults (38:42) because (38:43) You get to build these skills, you know, if you're (38:47) If you're fortunate if you if you're not just having to work to to not starve (38:53) Yeah, not not always that fortunate, but if we are that fortunate (38:56) At least we have the opportunity to do so, you know (39:00) I have a full-time job too and i'm sitting here on a sunday with you (39:02) And i'm you know, i'm putting an extra hour hours in for that too (39:06) You know, we have to we have we have to be very honest about ourselves with that as well with the input (39:11) Anyway, please even (39:13) but but with with (39:15) Whatever we do for work.We're practicing something (39:19) over time and getting better and better and better if we're if we bring consciousness and and (39:24) and (39:25) The desire to grow in what we're doing (39:28) and then the the act the (39:31) doing the work is joy is enjoyable in itself because (39:36) We're doing what we're good at there's a reward to that (39:39) Yeah, well, it's funny we're talking about passion or about i'm, sorry (39:44) No, go ahead. You've been doing this (39:46) So i've been doing this (39:49) Since I was 20 (39:52) And I have never enjoyed (39:54) the work I do as much as I do now because (39:58) It's it's I think you appreciate it also over the years you come to appreciate it (40:03) Yeah (40:05) Yeah (40:05) It's (40:07) It's something that I've practiced for a long time and absolutely grown in it (40:14) and (40:16) So that that's one of the things that can bring a lot of joy a lot of happiness to a person (40:22) and and relationships (40:24) If your relationships are good (40:27) So these are things that you build and and that's that kind of growth and and (40:34) Consciousness (40:35) Then we get to feel happy about about our (40:39) Right. I love that and and to the point is like that we talk about a passion (40:42) Passion is not just what you want to do in the fleeting moment (40:46) Passion is actually means struggle.It's what you're willing to (40:50) Walk over broken glass and crawl through the mud and under the dirt to get the meaning out of that thing that you're trying to get (40:58) Yeah, it's we have to look at it from such a different if we look at it from that different perspective (41:02) we're able to do that and a lot of us look at it from I just want to be happy happy easy easy and it's (41:06) Like it's not microwave. You gotta put the time in it's a bake. It's not a microwave, you know, yeah (41:11) well, yeah, and and another something that i've come across a lot over the years is (41:17) like a (41:19) Person who's younger searching for what they want to do in life (41:23) uh (41:24) They feel like it has to be a calling it has to be (41:28) The right like there's one right thing and this has to be it before I get started (41:35) When the truth is most people that feel that their work is a calling (41:39) They don't find it till they're (41:42) In their 30s or so and they've tried many other things (41:46) and (41:47) because (41:48) What happens is you have to dive in deep enough? (41:52) To get the skills well enough that you can enjoy (41:57) The process of it (41:59) And then it becomes a calling (42:01) So it's I mean some people find something and there's an epiphany and that's wonderful.It's like love at first sight, which is (42:09) That's fantastic. I'll be honest. I'm very envious not gonna lie a little envious of that (42:14) I was a little envious of people who found that right away because i've still struggled with finding that you know (42:20) Yeah, yeah, but most people don't (42:22) And so (42:24) I'm not i'm comparing myself to that person who does it when I shouldn't I should only compare to what I can do (42:29) You know yesterday (42:31) well, I mean (42:34) You feel what you feel so you can feel it and go yeah (42:37) Okay.Oh, yeah, but not not dwell on it (42:41) It's the well for sure. Yeah (42:43) I mean being taught once again being conscious of that feeling is allowed you to put it aside and move forward (42:49) Yeah (42:50) Yeah, just actually the the nature of our our emotions (42:55) um, we think of our emotions about as (42:59) Reactions to the past something that happened, you know, oh, they said this rude thing and i'm angry or (43:06) you know (43:08) They had i'm having such a great time. I had such a great time doing this thing or that (43:14) But really it's the emotions or feedback telling you okay (43:19) I want to handle that differently in the future (43:23) I (43:24) That person was rude to me and I didn't stop them (43:28) I need to do something different in the future or that was a great time.How can I do more of that? (43:34) How can I have more of that? (43:36) and so (43:37) Whatever the emotion is whether it's it's negative or positive (43:43) Is is generally something to learn from? (43:47) Yeah, absolutely (43:49) Yeah, I mean how many times you've flown off the handle and like you feel immediate shame (43:54) And you're like, why did I why did I react that way? (43:57) Yeah, when you couldn't just handle something much differently (44:01) Yeah, so one of my books is uh, mastering emotions moods and reactions (44:08) And one of the things I found is that it (44:12) With the example you just gave (44:14) right there (44:16) There's a difference between emotions and reactions (44:20) so emotions and and this isn't uh (44:24) There's not a solid line between them. They're they (44:27) Over they overlap but it's a venn diagram, right? Everything's venn diagram. It's nuanced for sure, right? (44:33) but (44:34) But emotions are are more about what I described where they give us feedback (44:40) Reactions are fight or flight (44:43) Hmm and when we blow up at somebody (44:47) That's not we're not coming from an emotion.We're coming from a reaction of fight (44:53) and and what that is is it's the (44:56) That gives us the energy to fight (44:59) Off a predator and have hope of survival (45:03) So it's like a level of anxiety or anxiousness (45:06) All all of that energy (45:10) uh is (45:11) It elite athletes tap into that energy to get about 25 percent more strength (45:19) with lifting (45:21) So when when we blow up at somebody (45:24) it's (45:25) it's always (45:27) over the top (45:28) because (45:29) They're not a predator (45:31) you know probably (45:33) Well, you're asserting your dominance in that situation. I would assume would be you're trying to be your most dominant side (45:40) Well, but you're not trying to do anything (45:43) When we're right, I mean, it's not a conscious. It's yeah, it's it's absolutely not conscious.It's it's not (45:51) It's a reaction that that's that (45:53) uh (45:54) kicks in in about a tenth of a second (45:57) And then we're blowing up or we're terrified and want to run away (46:02) and so (46:04) And when we're in that place (46:06) We're not able to distinguish changes in facial expression or vocal tone (46:11) So when we're in a reaction, we're not able to actually (46:15) We're interacting with people as things not as human beings (46:20) And so that's why when you blow up at somebody you feel awful afterwards (46:27) because (46:28) you've you've just (46:30) Disconnected you've broken the the relationship (46:34) And and then it makes sense you yeah, so so distinguishing between emotions and reactions (46:42) I found is (46:44) really helpful, especially (46:47) To distinguish, you know blowing up or or getting really scared of a situation (46:53) Because then there's things you can do you can you can pay attention to when you go into a reaction (47:00) And either avoid those situations or be (47:04) be (47:05) Ready to leave those situations if you start going into a reaction (47:10) You can you can begin to get some mastery over it so that you're not at the mercy of it (47:15) and that's when i've worked with people that have have (47:19) Anxiety or anger issues. It's always (47:23) It's always about getting some mastery around going into those reactions (47:28) And yeah, it's it's (47:30) um (47:32) very important distinction (47:34) because (47:34) It seems like you even come at it from a even more of a positive side than the stoic mindset (47:40) But you do probably incorporate a little stoicism into your you know, there are things out of our control (47:46) There are things we can't control things like yeah (47:49) Yeah (47:51) Absolutely, if you can distinguish what you can control from what you can't control that that's a great (47:57) tool right there because (48:00) By definition you can't control it. And so (48:05) Accepting that can give you a lot of peace of mind (48:09) There's a lot most of the things like working in the political (48:12) Space right like working in this political kind of freedom fest has a little bit of a small l libertarian mindset to it (48:18) I'm trying to oppose some of these things and there are these elected and appointed people (48:23) I have zero control over what they do (48:25) But here I am worrying about every decision that is made and what they're going to say and what the people in the robes are (48:31) going to do (48:32) and then what the guys in the suits are going to say in response to the people in the robes and what the guy (48:35) you know (48:37) yep, and (48:39) the people involved in in the (48:42) politics and media (48:44) Do everything they can to make it the most important thing on our minds (48:49) And and yet it's what we have the least control over in our lives (48:55) Yeah (48:56) Yeah, and it's funny.It's like and that's kind of the point right? It's like local out family out couple, you know individual self (49:03) Yeah, you know make your bed get control of yourself (49:05) Have your relationship have your relationships (49:09) And out from there. That's always the best way to live, right? (49:12) Yeah, yeah put put your effort where you where you do have influence and control and and (49:19) Influence is really what we have in our relationships. It's not control so much like (49:26) What (49:28) I did ask often over the years.Well, how can I make my husband or my wife? (49:34) Be more like this or more like that and I always have to answer. Well (49:39) You can't (49:41) No, you can't make (49:43) But what you can do is is we influence each other all the time (49:48) But to the degree that our relationships are good (49:51) To the degree that that I care about what a given person (49:57) feels and thinks and (50:00) Experiences with me (50:01) I'm going to be more influenced (50:03) And and have more influence on them (50:06) Yeah (50:07) Well, it's kind of the be the change you want to see in the world, right? (50:10) Like you walk up to a door and you see people behind you you can hold the door for them (50:15) And they can react however they want but if they don't thank you (50:19) You should still hold the door next time (50:22) Because that's courtesy, right? (50:23) So you take that experience of not being thanked by this group of people who you let in (50:28) And you take that to the next time and then you don't open the door (50:30) It's like now you're doing yourself a disservice because you've now (50:33) Changed who you are (50:35) For you know what I mean? You're not your authentic self in that way (50:39) Yeah (50:40) And yeah, you want to find what what matters to you and and live from that place (50:47) Yeah, and and it's kind of like living for others right living for others that there is no key to happiness there (50:54) No (50:55) Nor is living completely for yourself (50:59) Right, right. There is the meaning our sense of self isn't (51:03) We we think of our sense of self as a thing like i'm joel i've always been joel i'll always be joel (51:10) You're mark.You've always been mark you always (51:13) but (51:14) Our sense of self is much more of a process than a thing (51:18) It's it's changes and and and it's also not just (51:24) My sense of self isn't just me (51:27) Every relationship I have (51:29) I wouldn't be who I am right now if I didn't have my relationship with my wife (51:36) I'm, i'm different than I would have been for that relationship (51:40) and (51:42) Same with my kids and and friendships every relationship that you enter into (51:48) Affects you and becomes part of your sense of self. And if you just if you reflect on it a little bit (51:55) I mean you can think of (51:56) Uh, if you think (51:59) If you think of somebody that you're grateful for (52:05) if (52:06) There's an effect that you feel immediately (52:09) there's (52:10) You probably feel good. You probably feel a little happier.You probably feel a little warm and fuzzy (52:17) It's the warm and fuzzy feeling. I am very (52:19) Yeah, that's that's an example of of that's part of you (52:25) That's because they're not in this room right now (52:28) That's something that you've internalized that that i've internalized (52:32) And and that becomes part of our sense of self. So every relationship is is like an emergent (52:38) process that comes from that's created with two people (52:43) and so (52:44) uh (52:45) there it's a different thing than just (52:49) Me and the other person there's one plus one equals two.It's it's (52:55) Uh, it's much more complicated and beautiful than that (53:00) for sure and then and then if you incorporate friendships with that circle and then this other circle and then you have to (53:06) your (53:07) Relationship has to integrate with your friend's circle and then you have these other pieces and you have community and then you have (53:13) Civilization then you got the city and then you go out and as you scale out it becomes much harder to stay that connected (53:19) To that core piece that we all share (53:22) In a way, you know, so it makes it hard to even communicate in between people in a way when when we don't (53:27) Can only communicate you can only really have relationships (53:32) With a certain number of folks somewhere around 150 folks (53:37) Yeah, it's in that number, right? (53:40) What's up? (53:41) Is that the dumb bar number I think? (53:43) Yeah, yeah (53:45) Yeah, it's more in that ballpark (53:47) you know, it's (53:50) It's not that you can't know, you know have a bunch of names or a bunch of a bunch of (53:55) facebook friends or (53:57) You can have thousands and thousands (54:00) you can have (54:01) You know hundreds of thousands millions of fans or something. There's it's not that you don't have any (54:08) content (54:09) But in terms of actually having a relationship and having an impact on on one another (54:16) um (54:17) You know, there's there's a limit to what we can do. Yeah (54:21) for sure (54:22) so (54:23) 20 you started this.Let's let's go back. You you found your passion at right away. So you are (54:31) Contrary to what most people are who haven't found it at 30 or whatever (54:35) Do you mind sharing a little bit of your story how it clicked for you or how you did? (54:40) Well, I I had been reading nathaniel brandon's books (54:45) And uh really enjoying them and (54:49) uh, and then I found out I was going to school at uc santa barbara and (54:54) uh, I found out he (54:56) No, santa is santa barbara.Oh, is that the artichokes which it's all right (55:05) So so i've been i've been uh reading his books and I found that he and his wife deborah's were doing a workshop in los (55:13) angeles, so (55:15) I went down there and (55:17) um (55:19) I just loved how they were together. They had a relationship that I (55:24) I thought oh man, that's (55:27) That's a love relationship right there (55:29) And they're like feel it right you like radiate it between themselves. Yeah, and I just I love what they were doing and (55:38) There was one exercise that he had us do (55:43) Where he said now imagine there's some poison gas that just came into the room and you have six months to live (55:51) Everything will be the same as it is now (55:54) But you know till the very end, but you have six months to live and then he had us write down for 20 minutes (55:59) What we would do (56:01) You know what we would do for those six months (56:05) And then then so we wrote these things down (56:08) And then we came back and he said okay (56:11) Let me ask you one question (56:13) How do you know you have six months? (56:18) Because I mean, of course, how do you know you don't have six months now, right? (56:22) Yeah (56:23) or (56:24) Maybe you have a week.Maybe you have (56:29) Yeah, so, um that got me thinking what do I want to do and and it was right in front of me (56:35) and and then (56:36) So (56:37) so I talked with him and and (56:40) uh did some work some personal work with him and then he invited me to to uh, (56:47) uh sit down sit in on his groups and I could ask him questions so he (56:51) He became my he was my original mentor. He he and debors because they both did groups and did and (56:59) uh, just (56:59) And they were wonderful friends and mentors till they just passed away recently (57:04) Nathaniel passed away some years back and debors just a few months ago (57:09) Oh, sorry. Sorry for the hear that (57:11) Yeah, well, they they're (57:14) They they had you know, good long lives and and uh, (57:17) uh, they um (57:20) Had a big effect on them and in hindsight, you know (57:25) Seligman's authentic happiness and his (57:28) creation of positive psychology (57:31) Came along much later (57:33) But when I found when I read seligman's book and go oh this speaks to me (57:39) It was resonating with what I experienced with them (57:42) When I was 20 (57:45) And so that's that's what got me so you kind of paralleled your lives in a way you kind of saw yourself in that (57:51) Yeah, yeah (57:52) And so then I think because we do see that in others, right? (57:56) It's almost like it's how these hero stories evolve, right? We hear like the disney stories (58:01) They they exist because (58:04) It's like signpost to way to live or how to overcome an obstacle how to overcome a challenge, right? (58:10) These hero stories are all throughout and this is ways to live (58:13) To get to that I would think to your version of happiness the way you would (58:18) Oh, yeah.Yeah, and in fact, that's I mean part of part of why I love what I do is (58:25) I I get to see the heroic in people that (58:29) Probably most people don't get to see (58:32) because (58:34) We we see, you know in the world we see, you know (58:37) external heroism, you know running to a building burning (58:42) building burning building to rescue somebody or (58:47) You know some some great feat of courage (58:51) but (58:52) We all have things that we have to be courageous about and maybe it's uh (58:58) overcoming an addiction or (59:00) or managing anxiety enough to take action or (59:05) Getting out of bed for some people that is not a joke. I mean, there are some people that are a lot (59:10) Absolutely, and once again the the worst thing that happened to you is the worst thing that happened to you (59:16) So it's all relative. I mean once again, you can't compare one's trauma and experiences to yours (59:23) They are they're no one has lived even the same experience (59:27) You know in any way (59:28) No, we're we're all unique and and we have similarities.We have common. I mean there we have things in common (59:36) but our individual (59:39) Experience our individual sense of self is is completely unique (59:44) and I get to see (59:46) people (59:48) people come to me because (59:50) they want to expand and they want to (59:53) Uh, uh find the courage to move more into their life in a certain way or other (1:00:00) and (1:00:01) encourage by the way (1:00:03) It can seem like sort of a mysterious thing. Well, that person's very courageous.Oh that person's not very courageous (1:00:11) but it really comes down to (1:00:13) Managing anxiety and deciding to act (1:00:16) That's what courage is (1:00:18) Yeah, it's in the face of right it has nothing to do with you're not courageous you're still go (1:00:24) I mean courage is just defined as acting in the face of that danger or that (1:00:29) You know that unknown for you, right? (1:00:33) It's only a definition of that word, right? (1:00:36) yeah, and look at it like people not being courageous or something just because (1:00:40) well, and that (1:00:41) That comes back to (1:00:43) Our our sense of self isn't a thing (1:00:46) And we're not and that that goes for for (1:00:51) Things like courage or benevolence as well as things like, you know symptoms, you know (1:00:59) I'm depressed or i'm anxious or I have this or I have that (1:01:04) These symptoms that people struggle with are part of a process (1:01:09) They're they're not they're not things that are that we're (1:01:13) um (1:01:14) That we're given that we're stuck with (1:01:17) They're part of the process and and we each have our own process to deal with (1:01:23) But if you think of it as a thing, then it's static and it's stuck and you're you're stuck with it (1:01:30) but (1:01:31) If you understand that our sense of self is a process then there's movement (1:01:36) and um (1:01:38) Yeah, there's a fluidity. I mean once again as we get older (1:01:42) The reason experience is such a thing is because we are given more information over time. It changes the equation (1:01:48) It always changes with more information comes a different outcome different data set comes with different different outcomes (1:01:55) It's just how that's how it all works (1:01:58) And as we experience more we have that depth and the breadth to face more things (1:02:03) And to do that, it's just we have to be open to those experiences when we get to face them (1:02:07) To actually act in that way (1:02:09) Yeah (1:02:12) So so let's let's recap.Uh, you're going to be at freedom fest. Once again, july 10th through the 13th (1:02:18) What do you know what day you're you're uh presenting? Uh on the 10th on on wednesday. I'm actually the first wednesday.Okay first (1:02:27) Uh 12 45 I think it is (1:02:30) So i'm coming in on tuesday evening. So I hope I should be there first thing for that (1:02:35) uh for that (1:02:36) Then I think I have a book signing on (1:02:39) Then I think I have a book signing on thursday (1:02:41) Oh, excellent. Okay.I'll definitely be around that's going to be a full day for us as well (1:02:45) Are you sticking around for the entire event? Oh, yeah. Yeah (1:02:49) Excellent. Yeah, so would you share share a little bit experiences about uh freedom fest? (1:02:53) How would you mind sharing a little bit because you said you've been there now 12 times? (1:02:57) Yeah, well I have I have some friends that that go there (1:03:02) you know commonly so for me it's a chance to to see some good friends that (1:03:09) We get to hang out a little bit (1:03:10) Which is delightful and but there's always some interesting folks.They're speaking. Stephen pinker is going to be there this time (1:03:18) I know i'm excited brent. Uh, brett weinstein is now on on the schedule (1:03:22) Okay (1:03:23) yeah, and and and so there's (1:03:26) um (1:03:26) That's always interesting and get to meet folks and and it's a good group of people (1:03:33) Excellent.Yeah (1:03:34) So once again, do you mind recapping the the lecture that you're gonna that you're going to be discussing on wednesday? (1:03:40) So so i'm i'm going to be talking about how how to be more yourself (1:03:45) and uh (1:03:46) it's actually probably going to be a little more like a workshop than than just a lecture i'm going to (1:03:52) Have I have things for people to try and to experiment with (1:03:58) Well, i'm going to be talking about some of the things we're talking about here (1:04:02) um (1:04:03) But i'm also going to have people try some things out that so you can have an experience of it yourself and then (1:04:10) you can (1:04:12) Having a direct experience of something is much more useful I find than just the concepts (1:04:21) For sure, yeah (1:04:22) And let's talk on wednesday because I might be able to record their experiences if they want to share something how how they felt (1:04:26) Afterward or something so you and I can certainly get together if you want to talk about that. Sure. Great (1:04:32) Yeah, that's beautiful.Well, thank you so much for your time (1:04:35) Is there anything else you'd like to share and before we go, please share your you know (1:04:40) Your social media and all your ways to contact you and your websites (1:04:43) Yeah, so my website is dr. Joel wade.com. I try to make it easy (1:04:49) Um, so it's dr. J-o-e-l-w-a-d-e dot com (1:04:54) And then I also have a blog.That's my mastering happiness dot com (1:04:59) and um (1:05:01) I send one out every week and and it's uh, (1:05:04) And I have three books that i'll have at freedom fest (1:05:09) Uh mastering happiness is my first one and the virtue of happiness (1:05:13) And then my latest one is mastering. It's a workbook (1:05:17) The mastering emotions moods and reactions workbook. So that has a lot of exercises and things to do with it (1:05:25) As well as understanding of how these things are separate we tend to glom them all together into (1:05:31) I'm having a mood or that's like an emotion or that's like (1:05:35) There if you can separate them out, then you can do more things with it (1:05:39) so (1:05:41) Well, that's what's interesting about the self-help like realm is you you get books and you know (1:05:45) You read them and they sound great, but there's no practical application (1:05:48) So to see that you have kind of a workbook to that that's a nice (1:05:52) Way (1:05:53) To make it a practical application not in a vacuum where anything in a vacuum just seems it's so perfect, right? (1:05:59) Like to your point is like oh, yeah, it's great in a vacuum.Then you bring it out to real life (1:06:03) Yeah, it changed the whole thing gets flipped on its side (1:06:06) No, I I like practical things that people can use and and apply to their real lives not to their not to an imagined life (1:06:14) or some idea of perfection (1:06:17) but to to our real lives things that I use things that that are that are (1:06:22) that i've found helpful with folks, so (1:06:24) That's great. And that's probably why you're at freedom fest for all these years because it sounds like (1:06:29) There's such a neat group of people i'm so excited to meet everyone there and i'm very excited to meet you (1:06:34) I'm, looking forward to meeting you on wednesday (1:06:36) Likewise mark (1:06:38) Thank you so much for joining me. Dr. Joel wade (1:06:41) Mastering happiness see now I got it out like that because i'm i'm now feeling the mastery i'm feeling it (1:06:46) So yeah, thank you again for joining me on not conscious (1:06:49) We'll have a great day stay online because we'll talk a little bit after but thank you so much (1:06:53) I'm, so grateful for your time (1:06:55) Thank you mark.I appreciate it every time i'll see you in a couple days or probably in a week or so. Take care (1:07:00) All right (1:07:06) Good night, sweetheart. Well, it's time to go (1:07:13) Good night, sweetheart.Well, it's time to go (1:07:17) Oh, I hate to leave you but I really must say (1:07:24) Good night, sweetheart. Good night. Bye.