Transcript of our conversation with Danny Wu 9/9/2020

(0:19) Hi everybody and welcome to another edition of Knocked Conscious. Hello. Welcome Christopher.How are you sir? Hello good, sir (0:26) How are you doing? I'm doing great (0:28) Today we have Danny Wu. He's the producer and director of square one documentary on Amazon Prime Video. Hey, Danny.Are you over there? (0:36) Yes, I am. Thank you for having me. Thank you for coming on.So (0:40) We'd love for you to share a little bit about your how you got to (0:46) Have this be a project of yours, but then we'd love to hear more about you (0:49) So, please feel free to take care of that first part and then we can we can get to knowing you better (0:55) Sounds good excited to be on your show mark and Chris (0:59) Thanks (1:02) So tell us a little bit about how you got to have this subject matter be your first documentary that you wanted to produce (1:09) Well, I always wanted to you know be a filmmaker right growing up that was that was one of my dreams and I (1:17) Also had a dream of being a basketball player, but after some devastating knee injuries, that wasn't really a possibility anymore (1:26) so filmmaking was kind of really my goal for quite some time now and (1:34) Just I never thought it would come this early right (1:38) I always thought I would go up the ladder, you know, go to film school. We're gonna PA and stuff like that (1:46) but when this opportunity came, you know when I (1:51) Had the opportunity to interview Josephine Zoni (1:55) I knew right there and then that I had to I had to turn this from a simple interview into a documentary (2:03) Okay, that's a very interesting way to get started in that how long the whole thing take you (2:08) from start to finish (2:11) Well, I think if you do you mean the idea or from the first interview probably from the idea would be a great start (2:19) But then curious how the whole you know (2:21) When you actually hit the first interview to when you actually completed the project as well (2:26) So I don't think many people know this but I did have a YouTube channel back in the day (2:32) I didn't make a couple of Michael Jackson videos on there (2:36) right and (2:39) From that I started researching more about the cases, you know, I wanted to interview more people (2:45) for my YouTube channel and (2:48) There was this rumor back then (2:50) That there was this girl who was friends (2:53) With the first accuser and she was actually a witness for the 2005 case (2:59) She has never spoken a story before (3:03) So kind of became my goal to kind of find this to find this witness, right? (3:08) And yeah, somehow somehow I got a name (3:11) And don't really exactly recall how I got it (3:14) But it was on this blog and there was a comment and it led to the witness report (3:20) This blog was from like 2008 or something. So I had to dig really deep for that and the name was Josephine Zoni (3:29) So I looked up Josephine Zoni, you know, I'm searching up all these things about her online (3:34) Seeing what she does now and she's a publicist in New York (3:38) Pretty well-known publicist on top of that (3:41) All this time.I didn't even look to her up on social media. So (3:47) The moment that I did look her up on Twitter (3:51) Was one of the most surprising moments because she was actually following me. Oh, no kidding (3:57) Following you.Yeah, you have a lot of followers. So it's hard to know everybody who's following you (4:01) Well back back then I had like 500. So that's still like eight times what we (4:07) Got you guys gonna get there you guys gonna get there.We're gonna get there. You guys have the voice down, you know (4:13) Guys, have you guys have the million dollar million follower voice? (4:16) Well, you know and I've got a face for radio. So I'm (4:20) So (4:22) Anyway, I I see that she's um, she's actually defending Michael Jackson on her Twitter page (4:29) It's kind of surprising to me, you know (4:32) So I sent her a Twitter DM.I (4:35) Think this was this was probably in the middle of March 2019 like towards the towards the end of March 2019 (4:43) I shoot I shoot her a DM and I tell her that hey, you know, I've done some Michael Jackson videos (4:50) Around that time. I had recently just like you guys I interviewed Taj Jackson (4:55) on my YouTube channel (4:57) So I told her that I interviewed Taj. I was wondering I heard some rumors about you (5:02) would you be interested in doing a interview in that style like either through Skype or I (5:09) Can come to New York and we can film an interview or something like that (5:13) And she replied that she actually replied like right away (5:18) That's crazy (5:19) She replied it's like it's almost synchronicity, right? (5:22) Exactly.I was I when I saw that notification pop up it was just it was I was out of the world (5:29) That's a I like called my dad up. I remember I was like, what should I do? Like should I go through with this? (5:36) it's a big moment, you know and (5:38) You know, it's a huge moment that that you must be like bursting right because it's like your first get right, right exactly exactly (5:45) Because this is like a this is like breaking something new, you know, because before this no one even heard her story (5:51) Do you think that was your biggest? (5:55) Guest or witness or whatever word you want to do for square one. I mean even bigger than Taj (6:00) 100% (6:01) Okay, okay (6:03) No, nothing against Taj obviously, but no (6:08) Needed you needed her that was like your trump card, right exactly because (6:14) Right, we we get Josephine zone.I'll get to there. Why? (6:19) Oh, yeah, we send her around but obviously the Taj the Taj challenges that I mean, you've got a direct familial contact, right? (6:25) I mean exactly some cases they don't they don't even acknowledge alibis for direct relatives in some exactly (6:30) Exactly. Well with Taj, you know, it gained a lot of popularity because Taj was always sharing the documentary later on and (6:38) you know for him to have that trust to me was also huge and (6:42) Of the documentary probably wouldn't be as big as it is without Taj.I (6:47) Really appreciated his openness when he came on with us as well. Oh, yeah, absolutely. He and Jess were phenomenal phenomenal phenomenal (6:55) and (6:56) so (6:58) Josephine's only she (7:01) Messages me back.She says that (7:03) She is interested in she has seen my youtube videos. She enjoyed them a lot (7:10) She said that she would be interested in an interview, but it's not a good time for her (7:16) So that kind of I knew that I had a chance right (7:20) It's like what's that? So you're saying there's a chance. It's a Jim Carrey.Yeah. Yeah, exactly (7:25) one of our favorite movies by the way, so dumb and dumber so (7:29) So (7:31) Throughout the next two months. I kept you know, just going back at her.Hey, do you think you can do this? (7:37) do you think you can do this and (7:39) You caught a scent man. You're on it and I didn't want to be too pushy, you know, right? (7:45) It's really hard you do you do dance that line because we're very, you know (7:48) We're very interested in getting a bunch of different people (7:51) But you know, we want to give them the courtesy and respect that that we're not just hounding them, right? Exactly. Exactly (7:58) It's a it's a fine line.So you kind of kind of have to (8:02) be friends with them, but then you don't want to make it seem like it's opportunistic and (8:07) because I genuinely did like her as a person as well because she has (8:12) done so many of the things that I wish to (8:14) Accomplish with my career and she was giving me a lot of good advice like even back then (8:21) But (8:22) Because she had a she was in some one of her lead one of her clients (8:27) Her bigger clients were in some of some legal legal battles, so she didn't think it was a good time to go public (8:34) But once that when that once that case stalled (8:38) She agreed to do the interview with me. So (8:43) packed my bags flew to New York and (8:46) I (8:47) Brought a friend with me to record the first interview and that first interview isn't what you guys see now (8:53) That first interview was like a face-to-face me and her we're both on on screen (8:59) Okay, the camera would be on her and then it would be me asking a question and it would be on her again (9:04) Okay, got it. And so when I was doing it (9:08) I really like sitting in that seat and looking in her eyes and hearing her like say those words and tell the stories (9:15) It had such a has a such a great impact on me (9:19) just feeling her say it to me and that so when I watched a video back of (9:26) Me asking her the questions and then she's speaking to me through in the video (9:31) It didn't feel as powerful as she's speaking to me directly (9:36) Right.So that's when I had the idea that I had to had to had to get rid of myself for that part (9:44) And it would I really thought her (9:46) Her though. I found her eyes to be very expressive when she spoke. She she's very eloquent and well spoken (9:54) Yes, I came across very strongly.I agree a hundred percent agree with that (9:59) so (10:00) you know I had to make up my mind again to go back to New York and (10:06) shoot the interview again, but this time it would just be her on camera and (10:12) From that point on I had the idea that (10:16) You know if if Michael Jackson fans they watched that interview that would mean a lot, you know, because they had the (10:25) context of the case (10:27) but for people who (10:29) Who don't know the other side, you know who don't know the allegations about Michael Jackson. No, this doesn't really mean much right? (10:36) It's just someone telling her story (10:38) It's an excellent point so from from that perspective (10:42) I knew that I had an opportunity here to to make a documentary to see let's just let's just see who else we can get (10:49) Right to make this thing happen. So we got the Josephine interview done.I (10:57) Think around in in June (10:59) End of June beginning of July of 2019. I think end of June this was um (11:07) When the wrap I went to New York after the Raptors won the NBA (11:12) Championship so that's around the end of June. Yeah, so end of June would be when we got our first scenes for the documentary (11:19) Okay (11:21) and from there (11:23) You know, I mrs. Taj and mrs. Jenny whining's (11:28) Geraldine Hughes I emailed I told her that I have a documentary opportunity would you like to (11:34) Jump on it and of course because I had gotten the (11:39) Josephine interview done already, you know, I had I had something to to go off of you know, I had interviewed one of (11:46) the first accusers (11:48) Acquaintance so right because you had a foundation at that point exactly so to build on top of so to build off of that (11:55) so, um, I get all these interviews done and (12:01) I'm putting all this together and (12:04) Originally, I was gonna be the one to narrate it narrate it and (12:09) It just it didn't feel right, you know (12:12) So in the final I said why not Charles Thompson? (12:17) Everyone knows that he is so knowledgeable about this case (12:22) Very knowledgeable.I watched a lot of his he followed we follow each other now on Twitter. That's awesome (12:28) Thank you, yeah, he paid a very nice compliment to the last interview or the conversation we had he told me about that too (12:34) He he's like Danny you should listen to their interviews. It was really really great.So well, thank you. That's very kind of you (12:41) I mean, we just want to have a conversation. We're just trying to get to know you.Yeah, exactly. So (12:47) Charles I shoot Charles (12:50) But before even before the Charles (12:53) for that entire summer like (12:56) Morning and night like we were just I was working on that documentary to kind of (13:01) Put together like a structure that kind of worked (13:05) and (13:06) Well, that's one of the compliments about it. Is that it's one of the most (13:11) organized (13:13) You know quote-unquote defenses, right? (13:17) It's just it's been paid a lot of that acclaim.I think very organized in that respect (13:22) Mm-hmm. I think one of my friend was mentioning to me this other day. I wouldn't consider like a hundred percent valid but (13:31) It's because I also came from I didn't come from a documentary filmmaking (13:36) Background, you know I came from I want to make movies.I want to make it easy to understand for people (13:42) you know after after making this and (13:45) You go on you go online and you read all these. Um (13:49) You read all these books or these articles about documentary filmmaking (13:53) There's so many the rules you have to follow. Oh your story has to be perfectly chronological (14:01) It's really intimidating.Well, whereas when I was going in I didn't know any of these rules (14:07) I was just trying to make the (14:09) documentary (14:10) How I saw would be fitting so we kind of jump around with the timeline a lot, you know (14:16) Yeah, but but if it's but it flowed in the way you felt the story flowed exactly exactly I think before (14:24) Before this documentary kind of went mainstream. There were a couple fans that were even, you know messaging me to say that hey like you have (14:32) Chronological problems with your documentary you should really fix that which I just I did not agree with so I kind of stuck to my guns (14:39) and (14:40) Now it's really paying dividends because it's one of our strengths (14:43) Yeah, well kudos to that because I mean you are the filmmaker it's your vision at the time as well (14:49) You know, you can obviously accept people's (14:51) Constructive feedback, but it's also at the end of the day. It's yours (14:55) Yeah, which we have gotten a lot a lot of great constructive feedback, you know, absolutely (15:01) I mean the I'll be honest the the community as a whole has been very supportive to us (15:05) We've probably about 13 or 1400 downloads already (15:09) Just the episode (15:11) So and that's YouTube views combined with podcast downloads, but we have on both obviously, so that's incredible (15:17) That's it's unbelievable like and the support and then people, you know, correcting us like there are a couple things that I'll be honest (15:23) I just didn't know (15:24) Everything, you know what? I mean? I like Michael Jackson, but I'm not you know (15:29) Number one super fan.I'm just not because I don't know. I just don't know him that well, you know (15:35) I was I was a I was a pretty big fan when I was around grade seven (15:41) Okay, the year that that was a year that Michael Jackson passed away, right? And I would say my fandom like kind of just (15:49) stalled over the years and (15:52) I wasn't like listening to Michael Jackson songs every day and stuff (15:55) But you know, it was he was still someone that I studied a lot when I was younger (15:59) So, you know, I felt kind of qualified to talk about it (16:03) When the cases came out so some yeah, yeah continue. Oh good.I (16:10) Lost my train of thought already (16:12) I was just curious about just generally. So how did how does one get funding for for a project like this? (16:20) Well, is this something is personally funded or oh, it's personally funded. It's personally funded (16:25) Well, I was I was um, I was making YouTube videos before this, right? (16:29) So right and feel free to share your channel information everything.Do you still have your channel up? Oh, yeah (16:36) It's it's just Danny Wu. It's just my name. Okay, cuz I did see one it had about five or six videos on it (16:41) Yeah, that's that's probably my channel.That's the one. Okay (16:46) So I was already making YouTube videos and you know had a had a Sony (16:52) Sony 80d (16:53) Which isn't you know, the greatest camera, but it gets the job done (16:57) But when it comes to filmmaking documentary filmmaking that would be (17:02) Compared to the top films that would be severely severely (17:08) Not up to par with the cameras that they use for sure (17:12) But but we saved a lot, you know on camera on equipment, you know, I'm I'm the only person like doing all this (17:21) So the only the only price really was the the air costs travel cost, okay (17:27) And the premiere cost that that kind of hurt the bank a little bit (17:32) I'm hoping I'm hoping that you're recouping some of that with oh (17:37) You know (17:37) So you mentioned filmmaking in general? (17:41) I'm assuming from from what you just shared earlier that documentaries aren't necessarily your genre (17:47) What what kind of films are you looking to make in the future? (17:50) Well, I'm I'm trying to focus on documentary filmmaking right now because okay (17:54) I'm like, I feel like they're a couple they're a couple more stories. I wanted so I just meant that when I was starting out (18:00) I never saw documentary filmmaking as a as a road (18:05) I would go down, you know, you know, we don't always choose what we get into.Isn't that funny how that works out? (18:11) Yeah, exactly exactly (18:12) But I mean it definitely seems like a calling of yours the way this one turned out just the quality and the way and the carefulness (18:19) That you took in making it (18:21) yeah, and (18:22) You guys saw some of the setups (18:26) I think with the with the Geraldine Hughes interview (18:30) we didn't actually have left my tripod in the uber and (18:38) What did you set it up on so my friend Liam and I we were we were in skid row in LA (18:45) because that's where she was volunteering and (18:47) We had a camp we had one camera and a backpack and (18:53) We get we get into where she was working and we're just trying to find random objects to you know be able to (18:59) Make something that hold the camera up (19:03) So we're finding toilet paper like stacking chairs up on top of each other. That's that's really how we did it (19:10) That's amazing. So it's like teeter-tottering as you're trying to film (19:14) Yeah, you know just you're trying to you're trying to find solutions right because the uber uber driver wasn't (19:22) Wasn't answering her calls.You know, he didn't want to come back to the area. I (19:26) Don't know. I don't even know where that is.But I know the term I know the skid row (19:30) I don't know if I want to be there (19:38) Stealing my question mark (19:40) completely completely fair and (19:42) You know, even when we were leaving the uber drivers wouldn't pick us up in the area (19:46) They would like ask us to walk out. Are you kidding Wow? Yeah (19:51) Maybe maybe she could have given you a ride out or something (19:55) Sure, she was still um, she was still volunteering after we left Wow, that's amazing (20:02) So how safe did you feel? I mean, did you feel okay going in there? (20:06) Uh, you know (20:08) We did we did feel safe (20:09) You know, it was a as a relatively close walk to where she was volunteering and once we got there, you know (20:16) She she was just very warm to us (20:20) Everyone there seemed to love her and we were just more focused on (20:25) Getting the interview done. And if you the audio, I mean even though she was wearing a lavalier mic (20:33) Um, the music was blasting was blasting in the other room and (20:40) at one point during the interview (20:44) Someone came in to the room where we were doing our interview and just turned to turn the tap on (20:50) Turn a tap on it and he left like for the water like turn the water on full and just walked out.Yeah (20:55) Yeah, the washroom was right behind us. Oh my god (20:59) Yeah, and well even in the even in the documentary if you listen really carefully you could hear like (21:06) Toilets being flushed and the tap being turned on (21:10) If you listen really taking showers, you know, there's no showers there (21:16) No, she should have a square one outtake I like it like a blooper reel or something (21:23) But um (21:25) We were we were running severely behind schedule that day because we shot that the same day (21:31) I arrived in LA and the second day was when I shot the Taj interview (21:40) Yeah, he wasn't that happy with that one. He's like I didn't like how I was dressing that (21:44) I just thought it was another interview.I thought that was pretty telling. I thought that's kind of funny (21:48) Yeah, because you try to hit him cold, right? (21:51) Like yeah, absolutely (21:52) Prepared for something like that not for something like this because you want the real response (21:57) You want to see his reaction, you know on-screen if he's all prepared for it, you know, that might not look as authentic (22:07) With all the interviews you did Denny how often did (22:10) you (22:11) Stick to the scripted questions you had and how often did you go off? (22:17) the cuff where an answer that (22:21) Was given was not what you expected so it went down a different path (22:26) I think it's dependent on the person you're interviewing. Of course, right? (22:32) for example, if you're interviewing someone who (22:36) Loves to tell stories as storyteller themselves (22:40) You kind of you kind of just give them that creative liberty to just go off on their story and you just kind of (22:45) Add little bits to it, right and you mean Josh (22:50) Taj Jenny, you know people like that (22:55) You know with Gerald with Geraldine's interview it was it was so loud (22:59) It was so loud in that room that me and Liam we could barely hear what she was saying (23:04) So, you know, I had to just stick to the script and ask the questions because I didn't really know what she was saying (23:11) But when I when I came back I had to I listened to it back and we heard her we heard her story that way (23:19) Okay (23:21) So to answer your question, I would say it's um, it's dependent (23:25) on who you're interviewing, you know, if they've been telling their stories for a long time, they (23:30) had a (23:31) pre (23:33) Have an answer drawn up already obviously stick to the script (23:36) But if they're more spontaneous more conversate like more conversation type (23:41) You got to go off go off of them.So you're okay with the fact that hey if I don't get half of my answers (23:47) That's okay, because the interview could still be really good (23:51) Because of the flow of it Oh (23:53) 100% (23:55) 100% because you know a lot of a lot of this, you know when you make a film like this (24:00) You realize like how many of these like crazy moments are just divine accidents, you know (24:07) If this didn't happen that didn't happen (24:10) There would be no square one so you start being more appreciative of (24:18) People's (24:19) People's answers, especially you got a (24:23) Especially for Charles, we probably use like 1 4th of his interview material if that (24:30) So there's a lot of a lot of nuggets in there that you got to kind of just go in and dig out (24:36) Wow, yeah, I'm really excited to actually have an opportunity to have a conversation with him as well (24:42) Yeah, and and what's interesting to us is like once again Chris and I don't come from the MJ fam (24:47) we just don't but I (24:51) Met Jess on Twitter through synchronicity, right and (24:55) this happened changed my mind and just got us introduced to yourself and to Taj and (25:01) But I like the justice of us (25:03) I thought that that one thing that that one sex ring that Charles uncovered was is amazing as well (25:09) I just find him fascinating as well as yourself like (25:12) You're just fascinating individuals to me. I just love (25:16) Going inside your head and hearing, you know your thoughts and how you got to where you got and all your processes (25:25) So what's next on the docket for Danny next on a docket well (25:34) Well Nick right now, you know square one is currently it's still kind of hot on Amazon Prime right now I think in Canada (25:42) we just hit number one and documentaries overall and (25:46) We're all congratulations (25:48) Also top 20 in movies overall, which that that's just unbelievable to me Wow (25:53) Congratulations, that is congratulations. I live in Canada, right? So I kind of kind of proud about that (25:58) We were number 102 in Venezuela as of this morning or something.I (26:05) Think they have a total of six downloads and somehow we ranked on there (26:09) It was it was the funniest thing stupidest thing which were ranked. It's a (26:14) Podcast country. Yeah, that's what I hear.You know, those six downloads really get us get us on the map (26:20) But hopefully this helps a little bit with that. No, absolutely (26:23) No, this has been great. And like I said, we're not doing it for that.We're really so interested in the story (26:31) Yeah, exactly. You don't go into things like this being like, oh, I want to have the number one documentary on Amazon Prime (26:37) You know that that's the goal like no, that's that that comes with it (26:41) You know, the passion has to be absolutely from the heart. Did you guys watch it on Amazon Prime? (26:47) Absolutely.Yes, I watched it three times (26:50) Wow (26:50) Wow, thank you for that (26:52) No (26:52) well (26:53) I mean, you know Jess is so passionate about it when she when we got introduced there on Twitter and I (26:59) I wanted to be as informed as I could because you know (27:02) I wanted to make sure that I it's like watching a movie, you know, I wanted to almost memorize the parts (27:07) Yeah, exactly (27:11) So, yeah Amazon Prime has just been insane I think in the short term what's gonna happen next is um, I (27:20) Think on the one one year anniversary of square one, you know the original square one. That was a YouTube release (27:27) Right. We're we're actually talking about it because I think someone on Twitter talked about it with you.Is it October 5th? (27:34) October 5th or you know, maybe even a little bit earlier. It's a (27:39) October 2nd, I was thinking okay second or fifth we could do the one-year anniversary, you know just because last year (27:46) We released square one October 5th (27:49) Congratulations. That's really awesome.And that was the original cut right? We kind of use YouTube as our film festival (27:58) Yeah, because we didn't know I had trust me. I had no idea how any of this worked (28:03) You know, I had no idea about film festivals stuff like that (28:06) I think after after square one premiered in LA (28:10) Taj's producer came to me and she was talking about how I should really look into getting this premiered at other (28:17) Festivals other big festivals and they would be interested in having me and I just had no idea what that meant (28:25) Like at the time I'm so embarrassed now, but I had no idea what that meant (28:31) Because I had already announced on YouTube that I'm gonna be releasing the documentary the following week (28:36) So I don't have time to go release it in other festivals, right? Because I'll be going back on my word (28:45) So when it finally were released on YouTube (28:49) it had (28:50) Around a hundred K views on the first day. I want to say around 100 K 150 K (28:56) How the heck did it get so how did it go viral so quick and then as (29:01) As fast as they go viral though.It's just it slowed down just as fast (29:06) Sure. Well, yeah, right (29:09) exactly, so (29:11) From from one heck of a spike though. Sorry Danny.I mean, that's a huge spike (29:16) Just like from this from the second day to to now (29:21) I think the total views of our of our YouTube YouTube raw cut is around (29:28) 500,000 now so (29:30) Relatively slow compared to compared to the first day momentum, right? (29:34) But also if it was only on YouTube, I'm sure those guys would be Scott would be the numbers that you'd have (29:39) I mean, I mean, I mean exactly that's why (29:43) you know in January we did a we did a premiere in Amsterdam and (29:48) There was this there was this lady she came up to me (29:50) She came up to me and she was um, she held her index finger and thumb together almost like a pinch (29:58) She was gesturing that to me. She said hey Danny. I just have a question, you know, I (30:03) I've been checking the YouTube views every day.Why is it so little? (30:10) I don't know Karen. I'm trying, you know, I'm (30:13) Yeah (30:15) We have a podcast that we're just starting we don't watch that every two seconds (30:19) I'm not clicking refresh to see if we got one extra download, you know every three seconds (30:25) But you know learning so what I did basically was I looked up other top in the indie documentaries (30:34) On Amazon Prime and I kind of kind of looked at their roads, you know, what streaming services did they go on? (30:40) Did they sign their rights over to a distribution company stuff like that and from there (30:48) I decided to put it on Amazon Prime and now it's on to be TV as well. Oh, it's on to be as well (30:55) Yeah, it's on to be as well.Yeah, it is a free one with ads, right? Yes (30:59) Okay, it's on to be and I think it's actually made it to the most popular page already (31:06) So that's kind of wild (31:09) Also to be has ads in the middle of the (31:13) movie (31:15) Yeah, yeah, they have like broken out (31:17) Okay, so that's free. So that's why the overall length is longer because they have ads I would guess. Yeah, it makes sense (31:25) Okay.Now now I can sleep easy at night. Thank you guys (31:30) Guarding um Amazon Prime Danny (31:33) Um, I have no idea and that's why I'm gonna ask you (31:36) I'm a big fan of how things work behind the scenes and logistics. Can you tell me or how? (31:45) In two minutes three minutes or 20, whatever (31:47) how do you how'd you get on Amazon Prime you had to go through distribution company and then they did the work or (31:53) How does I'm curious on how that all happens? (31:59) Yeah, I'll tell you exactly how it happened (32:02) So to get on Amazon Prime there are two ways (32:06) If you distribute it by yourself (32:08) You can get on US UK and Germany if they accept your arm if they accept your film (32:16) Which is getting hard to apply you have to apply and that's a manually approve your video (32:21) Make sure everything is correct and they're trying to cut down on low quality content now, right? So it's getting increasingly increasingly harder (32:29) Okay (32:30) Another way is to go through a distribution company (32:34) but oftentimes (32:36) Distribution companies they want to they want the rights to your documentary (32:41) but then they would (32:42) They would be able to get it on Amazon Prime to be stuff like that much much quicker (32:49) So what I ended up doing was um, first we reached out to a couple distribution companies and (32:57) They said that (32:58) They would have they would be happy to put it on Amazon Prime, but they would need the complete rights documentary (33:05) Which I just didn't didn't feel comfortable giving up, you know, you hear horror stories about that all the time (33:11) Of course giving up the rights to their project (33:14) but what we did was (33:17) originally, we just (33:19) We submitted it.We we first we did a we did a 2.0 cut, right? (33:25) We took all the advice we got on YouTube kind of I had Jess send me a lot of stuff and I kind of just (33:33) Went over it, you know, Jess was sending me like hundreds and hundreds of documents like every day things I can approve things I can do better (33:42) New evidence, yeah, she is (33:46) Crazy awesome, and I mean awesome more than crazy. She is just a hound dog. Holy mackerel.She is flooding our (33:53) DMS with you would know like PDI was loving it (33:57) I mean she sent us the Google Drive and this and that it was awesome a hundred percent a hundred percent. So sorry (34:02) So I have to like I have to dig through these things like every day right and just find (34:08) And I hate to say it but like 90% of it is useless, you know, I'm not gonna that's it's not gonna work on documentary (34:14) There's all that's just truth though. I mean that's like all data, right? (34:17) That's all and I tell her to send me those things to you know, because it's all object (34:21) It's all subjective, but there's always like one or two things that I'm like, okay.I need I need to incorporate this somehow (34:28) which is which is annoying part because like if she sends like a hundred things every day and (34:34) None of them work. I can just tell her to stop sending me sending me stuff (34:38) But now like every time it was like one or two that turns out to be like good (34:42) You know, you have to tell her to keep doing it. Yeah.I mean you just can't stop. Unfortunately, it's one of those like (34:48) You know prices to pay, you know (34:50) But it was fantastic though, and you know and she was awesome she managed to find some crazy crazy stuff (34:59) so we incorporated some of that into square one 2.0 and (35:04) Submitted it just at the subtitles by herself (35:09) We submitted it into Amazon Prime (35:14) US UK and (35:16) What just it was um, she organized a bunch of Michael Jackson fans who wanted to do the subtitles (35:24) for other countries, right so (35:26) All those people who have contributed to subtitles desserts. There's so so much credit so so much credit and they've all gone (35:34) Shout out on a credit on IMDb for their for their hard work (35:39) But basically they translated (35:42) all the English characters to (35:46) the language where they're from so we were able to submit it to (35:51) at first to US UK and Germany and (35:56) It took it took so so long (35:59) Like months for it to finally be accepted (36:03) into Germany and (36:07) You know in the beginning I never I never really like expected it to take off or anything like that, right (36:13) because when you read (36:15) When you read read it, for example for some indie indie filmmakers and they talk about their experiences with Amazon Prime (36:24) It's more like oh you just you do it for you do it for the clout you do it for the credit (36:29) Yeah, it's exposure at least (36:31) You do it so you can say in the future (36:35) that you got a documentary on Amazon Prime, you know stuff like that and (36:39) And (36:40) You know, it was it was just steadily steadily increasing (36:44) And all of a sudden US and UK when they accepted it (36:48) You know a month in two months in you can just see the documentary climbing climbing the rankings (36:56) Like every day was climbing one or two spots and I can I can see the numbers every day, right? (37:02) I can see the mint streams is increasing by a lot as well (37:05) Yeah, and I (37:07) Remember I set a goal.I looked I looked up at the documentaries and there's a documentary called one child nation (37:13) And I kind of just was like, okay if we could get square one to that level right there like behind it (37:19) That would be pretty cool. And then like four days later (37:23) I woke up and square one was like two to two spots ahead and I was that was just I think that was just so so (37:30) so surreal and I think in the first month I (37:33) Mean the first two months we had already (37:38) Broken the amount of views that YouTube had amount of minutes streamed I should say (37:43) So now we have done the YouTube ministry many many times over (37:48) Where YouTube YouTube because YouTube the documentary on YouTube? (37:54) To put it lightly like it was it was kind of a flop right for a project this big (38:01) Wrong for well in your eyes in your (38:04) Because you have personal goals that you'd like to have (38:07) Reach and everything. I mean, I mean, for example, if you get 100k views on the first day (38:13) You're gonna you're gonna kind of expect it to keep going at some pace like that, right? Yes something, right? (38:19) for the next next few months you get like (38:22) 50k (38:24) It's a it's a very big slowdown (38:26) Yes, but it kind of seems to be extremes doesn't it on in social media world (38:31) Yeah, whereas I'm on Amazon Prime, you know, it's a there's less there's less document (38:36) There's less some videos to compete with and for example, no one really goes on to YouTube (38:43) To watch a documentary they go on YouTube to watch something quick, you know something light (38:49) You don't you don't go on YouTube saying I'm gonna sit down and watch an hour and a half of a documentary (38:55) You know, not many people do that.Whereas if you (38:59) Whereas for Amazon Prime, for example, you're probably already (39:03) Opening Amazon Prime you're browsing with the mindset that I'm gonna sit down here. I'm gonna watch something completely through (39:11) at a longer length (39:13) So I think that's the reason that the Amazon Prime document the documentary on Amazon Prime (39:20) Has done so much better to where in July actually reached the number one spot (39:26) which is still still still shocking to me and (39:31) You know the numbers the numbers reflect that so (39:36) Incredible yeah, it's awesome (39:39) And I did find I did find square one on to be because I happen to have to be and it's an it does show (39:44) 93 minutes so there is a four minute (39:47) Difference it must be come I'm assuming it's commercials (39:51) yeah, kind of (39:52) Kind of not at ease about that, but I'm hoping are you a little concerned? I (39:57) I've skimmed it. I'm skimmed it (39:59) It seemed fine, but I didn't know where the extra three minutes came from sure (40:03) That's probably what it is because I think they come in like 15 second bursts or whatever every X amount of minutes (40:09) Yeah, I'm also trying to get it on the mailed on demand before (40:14) before October (40:15) Before our October rally (40:19) Very awesome.Do you have some kind of rally planned or scheduled? (40:23) Yeah, that was um, that's what you guys saw on Twitter for the one years going. Okay. Yeah (40:29) Yeah, what happened last year was that? (40:31) We were they were trying to trend it to go worldwide right to make the hashtag or number were to rank worldwide and (40:40) What happened was that they planned a rally an hour before the documentary dropped (40:46) so an hour before the documentary dropped lots and lots of hashtags like (40:51) It was trending a couple countries, but then as a documentary like rolled out (40:57) No one was tweeting anymore because they're all watching the documentary (41:01) So and then I try to catch yeah kind of victim of your own creation there.Yeah, and then afterwards, you know, they tweet again (41:07) So when we look at it afterwards numbers are pretty high I think we were at like 50k tweets (41:14) Or something like that. We were like higher than um, most of ones that were work that were ranking top of the hash tag (41:21) WWE like they always think they're always ranking number one. Yeah (41:26) But because I think it's because of the time that we didn't we weren't able to rank worldwide (41:38) That's pretty awesome, I mean, it's just crazy that you're number one in Canada your home country congratulations (41:43) yeah, because it was crazy because I was getting I was getting DMS from (41:49) People that haven't seen in years about how they just watched me on Amazon Prime (41:55) That's pretty funny because um, someone messaged me (41:58) Congratulating me and telling me how much they liked it.And I was I was out eating right now. I was out eating when he sent that (42:06) Um, and it turns out like he he was in the same restaurant (42:12) Shut up. Yeah, I think I didn't go say hi though.I was gonna be too awkward. Why not? (42:18) You want to shout to this person right now? We can we can clarify it. So the person feels love (42:24) Okay, that person in the restaurant that tweeted Daniel.It wasn't it wasn't a restaurant. I was a food court. It's food (42:30) Okay, the food court that Danny got the tweet (42:33) You don't want people to know I eat at a food court, okay, come on, okay, that's okay, man (42:39) Hey, I get an orange Julius every once in a while (42:42) Hot dog on a stick.Oh that stuff boardwalk fries. We're (42:46) I love just chilling, you know (42:49) Yeah, how that you know what the mall a food courts a great place of people watch, right? (42:57) Documentary filmmaker I would think that you that's like (43:00) That's your next documentary the food court Chris and I sit in places all day and just watch people just do their stuff (43:09) It's not true at all (43:19) We have the solitude gene in us we we do like to kind of break off on our own (43:25) White time (43:26) Yeah, I need that a lot of a lot of thinking for square one was done inside a mall or driving (43:34) Yeah, I can imagine with that. So do you get much sleep? (43:39) During during the documentary.I just in general. It sounds like your mind's going a mile a minute like ours does (43:45) it was um (43:47) during during the the documentary filmmaking process the editing process it was it was pretty tough because (43:55) My parents were actually over for the summer (43:59) and they had brought um, my cousin as well my younger cousin and (44:05) Because they they would trap they would come over from China and we would do a US road trip usually every year (44:12) But because of the square one stuff, you know, it's kind of kind of tough to road trip and edit (44:19) Right. Oh, it doesn't doesn't really work.Yeah, it's kind of hard. You have to have better equipment (44:25) Exactly mobile like that. So so so what ended up happening was a lot of times I would spend the morning with them and (44:35) then in the afternoon that would be (44:38) afternoon to about like (44:41) Five I would want to say five at night (44:45) Five into the morning I should say that's when I would be editing (44:48) And then take a quick nap and then hang out with them again and then you know, that's that was a cycle (44:54) Wow, that must have been rough for how many months was that? (44:58) That was about like two months two months or so and then college all-nighters every night (45:03) Two months, but this is this is fun though, right? Cuz this is like sure (45:08) Exactly.So this is very different from uh, I was also was I graduated but then I was also in school for like half the (45:18) For the first term of summer (45:20) So I think that was right during the Josephine Zoni interview. Yes. That's also another part when I was doing the Josephine Zoni (45:28) Interview I was um, I was in school (45:31) And I had so many midterms do so I would interview Josie and I would go home and I have to write it a freaking essay (45:41) Yeah for my class so you were on the plane to New York studying yeah, oh well (45:46) Before the year before the interview, you know, I kind of (45:50) You know, there wasn't much to prep for for the interview because I already knew what to expect (45:58) but I (45:59) Had a few essays due and I had a big final exam the day that I got back.So (46:07) Yeah, I had to balance I almost forgot about it it seems like a lot of pressure (46:12) Yeah, I mean it was it was my final term, you know, and (46:17) It was my final two final few assignments. So from that perspective. It was kind of fun to finally finish it (46:26) Yeah, how'd you end up doing? I (46:30) Think on the on the paper.I got like I got an 80% which is um, which is all right (46:36) That's a that's a B. We'll take it. Yeah (46:40) And in Canada, that's an a actually that's an a we'll take that too (46:45) Canadians are so friendly. I went to the wrong country.It's a it's an a-minus in Canada if you're 80% in a boat Wow (46:52) Yeah, we were in the wrong country. Is that because of the exchange rate? (47:01) For the (47:02) What college was that if you don't mind us asking what your credentials are what university did you go? (47:07) UBC it's in British Columbia British Columbia. Yeah, we were one of the final schools to shut down for kovat (47:13) So for a while, we were actually the number one ranked school in the world (47:18) Wow, cuz you were open.Yeah (47:22) That's pretty cool, I'll take it look if every other podcast shut down just for one day (47:27) And we could just have one download and then we go UBC is the big university in my in my city (47:34) Yeah in Vancouver in Vancouver, yes, yeah, yeah British Columbia is gorgeous up there I wish I (47:41) Actually visited I just see pictures it is I've been maybe Danny's gonna invite us (47:45) But I'm gonna put them on the spot on here anything guys already invited man. Oh, thanks, man (47:49) Well, you're welcome to Phoenix anytime you want. It's only a hundred and sixteen degrees.We can we can throw that's a lot in centigrade (47:56) Like 44 it's high centigrade's for sure. You know, you guys are from Phoenix. Yes.Yeah, we're in Phoenix (48:03) my (48:05) My high school alumni Steve Nash (48:09) Sons. Yes, he did. Yeah, he many years.Yes (48:16) I'm sure he has he's talented any Blake's soccer as well and so (48:21) skating's very very (48:23) Very very talented. He seems like a really nice guys. He can did he contribute a lot to your school after he left? (48:31) No, what a weird what a weird tangent that took he did come to like two of my (48:38) One of my games though.He told me good game afterwards. Very cool (48:41) It was were you like looking up to him because he was an alumnus alumnus at the time and you wanted to be a basketball (48:46) player (48:47) Yes, that's one of the reasons that I went to the school that I went to. I went to a boarding school in Victoria (48:53) So I was living by myself since grade eight (48:57) Really really tough, you know people always like to glamorize how fun boarding school was but it was not in the beginning for me (49:04) People say boarding school is fun (49:06) Yeah, I that I don't know what that I don't that (49:11) Like in TV shows and TV shows people it seems like a cool club to be in in TV shows (49:16) But it I don't think it's that's advertise the uniforms.Absolutely not. Yeah (49:22) vloggings (49:25) Those are the worst my friend (49:29) The game that Steve Nash went to (49:31) That was also the first game that my mom has came to see me play (49:37) Since like six years prior. So it was like a pretty pretty big day for me (49:42) And I think I won and I won the first team all-star at that tournament (49:47) Which was like the first person from my school to win it since Nash at that tournament.So (49:53) Pretty fun. It's amazing. Yeah, I don't think it's an awesome story.I don't think he knew that part though, but (49:59) He does now (50:00) I feel like a mini documentary just about that little story about how you (50:04) Wanted to do that with basketball and how your connection with Nash (50:07) oh, that's that's one of the future projects that I want to get into you know, because um (50:14) My coach my coach has such a such an insane history his career in general, you know, he coached Steve Nash (50:23) He was actually also accused of some stuff by students (50:28) That he was now he was quitted from (50:31) How the gym is gym is named after him (50:36) But I did I did pitch a documentary idea out it's a few grants about basketball (50:43) Between about like three friends like me and my two other friends (50:47) Our basketball careers, but I guess they didn't they want to go in another direction so (50:54) Yeah, but maybe at some future point you've got you know, you've got to pass (50:57) You've got your documentary passion and basketball has always been there for you (51:01) Exactly. Exactly. I'm sure I don't really I don't really need that grant anyway to be honest because I could just filming myself (51:08) This just in Danny Wu.He's balling people (51:13) Something you're gonna keep pursuing that basketball movie (51:18) It's a documentary (51:21) but I (51:22) Have to I have to finish (51:23) Well go into back to your friggin point from maybe an hour ago. We do that a lot (51:28) yeah, we were gonna title this tangents, but (51:32) We felt the other name was better (51:34) Go back to your point like an hour ago. I do have a few other projects lined up (51:41) But after after all that this is definitely something something that I will look into (51:48) And what are the other projects you have lined up (51:51) well (51:52) as you guys know I was um, I was in China for for quarantine because I (51:58) Went back to China for Chinese New Year (52:00) To spend with my family and I kind of just got stuck there (52:05) Because of Colbert.Yeah, we watched we watched your video (52:09) Supposed to be a we were supposed to (52:12) Continue touring like there's we were thinking of going on going to other countries for the square one tour (52:20) But this was kind of like a blessing in disguise because you know that kind of sat me down (52:25) Gave me time to reflect on what I needed to do to move this project forward, you know (52:31) Yeah, I mean February would have been six months in exactly (52:34) So that's probably a perfect time to really reflect and kind of see where you're at and where you want to be (52:39) Because we say that the documentary was released in 2019, but it really it really was released in 2020 (52:46) because that's when when (52:48) Hit Amazon Prime. That's when like people who were in Michael Jackson's fans began watching it, right? (52:56) Like a hundred K fans. That's cool.All hundred K probably love Michael Jackson, right? (53:01) Right, right (53:02) And I mean, let's not you know (53:04) Let's be honest if you have an affinity towards someone you're going to be more defensive or supportive of them (53:09) Exactly a hundred percent a hundred percent. So and that was never that was never my goal of the documentary (53:15) my goal was always to appeal to (53:18) neutrals, you know people like (53:21) Chris and Mark (53:23) so (53:25) And kudos to you for that because it did not appear like (53:30) Any kind of fan (53:32) I've seen some of some of the supporter pages before or (53:36) Some of the works of supporters and it just and you even see the tweets, right? It's just like (53:42) It was presented very well (53:44) I have to give kudos to the (53:47) Michael Jackson fans for that because they've done so much of the groundwork, right? (53:50) They've done so much of the groundwork that I could just go in and kind of take from their resources (53:57) Because it's almost like a library (53:59) So, yeah, it's an amazingly supportive community amazingly amazing supportive community and that's the other thing, you know (54:06) I did a I did an interview recently (54:09) with with Newsy (54:11) with Newsy and (54:14) You know, he was he was um (54:17) He was kind of just um getting have you guys seen that interview? Yes, I have. How'd you feel about it? (54:24) I thought he was kind of a jerk face (54:28) That is that not accurate or was that this is the kind one (54:35) Have you seen a mark I can't say that I have what what where was it that I've seen it and you haven't I (54:42) What is wrong with the I look right now? (54:44) I was on your page Danny and I watched the videos that you had on there.I didn't see that interview (54:49) This was on Twitter. This was on Twitter. Oh, I didn't and I'm not even I'm so sorry either.Look, I'm I'm in (54:55) Marcus I (54:56) Okay, this just in I should never do a documentary because I'm not thorough enough, but good thing. I'm the verdict (55:02) I'm gonna take I'm gonna take Chris's word for it and say that he was a jerk face, but can we talk about it? (55:08) Yes, Danny confirm or deny that he and I will watch it right after this. I know I'm not gonna I'm not gonna confer (55:14) Okay, but I like Chris talk shit.You just listen (55:19) Tell us about Newsy. I'll give you some context to the stories. Oh, please (55:23) Yes, because I do think it came from a good place in the beginning (55:27) So I get a I get a message from their producer (55:32) That he has watched square one and (55:35) From the vibe that I got he really enjoyed it.He really liked it. You know, he's telling me how (55:41) It's very happy that he understood why it's number one on Amazon Prime (55:45) He said if I needed any more publicity, you know free to talk about it on his show (55:50) Talk about any way like live record it whatever (55:55) So, you know I talked talk it over with some of my team and they they feel that's a it's a good idea as well (56:03) So we set it up and (56:07) I'd the day before right? He told me that the anchor the anchor is gonna watch the documentary tonight and (56:16) He's gonna be interviewing me (56:19) So (56:21) Then you realize that it's kind of like out of the producers hands right because um, this is someone else that's (56:28) Watching the documentary. It's not the guy who DM me that (56:32) right (56:34) But but still though, um, I asked him, you know, well, what kind of questions should I be expecting and he was just gonna be (56:41) Oh, you know talk about talk about how you got your documentary onto Amazon Prime (56:46) Talk about how you got sourcing, you know, what do you think really is going on stuff like that? (56:51) Just sounds good on paper, right? Yeah, it's the stuff that we actually ask and actually care about you mean? Yeah, exactly (56:57) Exactly so (57:01) So so I get on right I get on the interview (57:05) And I'm talking I'm talking to that guy and you know in the back of my mind (57:10) I always kind of I was expecting it right? I wasn't I (57:13) Wasn't hoping for it to happen, but you know, you always kind of expect the worst and (57:19) It's good at least to have like a preparation for it or just in case yeah (57:25) So so he's talking to me.He's like, yeah, I've seen your senior senior documentary, you know (57:30) It's great. And I'm also I've also seen the other one, you know (57:33) So many of the things in your documentary like I've never seen seen anywhere before it is very very kind to me (57:41) and (57:41) As the interview started, you know, one of the questions he literally asked me was um, he's telling me how (57:47) he's telling me how um (57:50) he was expecting screw one to have like (57:53) 90% of on tomatoes and it even blew that away (57:56) He had 98 just like even like all the stuff praising the documentary, right? (58:02) Right, and we even went into that and with Taj and Jess like all those scores (58:07) and then (58:08) You know midway through the interview (58:12) You can kind of just feel the tie ships (58:16) How who are you Danny? What questions started started coming in? (58:22) Do you know the first with the first question that kind of I really don't call but what happened was, um (58:27) he asked a question that was like (58:31) that was kind of spinning spinning what I was saying, right because (58:35) He would take little parts of the documentary take it out of context and then (58:41) Interrogate me about it as if that was my entire point of the documentary (58:45) You know, for example, he would talk about the Evan Chandler phone call about how (58:52) Hey, wouldn't you want a nasty attorney as well? Yep. I remember that (58:56) It's like okay, but what about everything else? He has said everything else.He has done you're taking one line that he has said (59:03) You know (59:06) But when I kind of felt you wouldn't want a nasty father (59:10) Like sorry, it was like I don't care. It's irrelevant. What what Jordan wants? (59:15) Oh, yeah, I would want a nasty criminal attorney, you know, right? (59:19) but anyway, so so he kind of caught me a little bit off-guard I (59:23) I was like, hey, I'm gonna give me 10 seconds (59:27) So I kind of took 10 seconds to kind of just prepare myself for the onslaught that's gonna come (59:33) Understand that this wasn't gonna be like one of those interviews.That's uh, they talk about the documentary (59:39) You know, they're gonna be doing this to get a headline and agenda-driven and clickbaity and all that (59:45) Yeah, and so so the next next three to three four minutes of the interview was basically just just all that all that (59:54) and (59:55) You know, he ended it with saying that he looked forward to seeing a lot of my future projects (1:00:01) But when it got on air all the things that he praised about square one (1:00:06) Talking about or even talking about how he's excited to see my future projects (1:00:12) It's all cut out. Only thing that's left is the accusations the interrogation (1:00:18) That's awful. I mean, that's just (1:00:21) It's it's that distortion of truth, right? (1:00:25) and then you know (1:00:27) The next day I think a lot of fans were calling him out calling the producer out for um (1:00:34) For not showing the part where I talk about how I got it on Amazon Prime (1:00:40) Right, that's the whole reason the guy called you allegedly yeah, and (1:00:46) So so he releases another video of me talking about filmmaking tips right filmmaking tips and (1:00:53) You know, that was cool, but I now realized that the interviewer completely completely misunderstood what I was talking about (1:01:01) I mean not like he really cared but (1:01:03) so so he asked me for advice about filmmaking documentary filmmaking and (1:01:09) I talked about how you got to just be fearless (1:01:13) You know all the rules (1:01:15) documentary filmmaking may seem (1:01:18) filmmaking in general may seem (1:01:21) Very very hard.It's very gatekept (1:01:25) It's a very gatekept (1:01:27) Industry, you know, you don't have a lot of capital. It's very hard to make it and (1:01:33) so I just (1:01:34) Basically said that you gotta gotta just do your own thing (1:01:38) Make up your own rules about filmmaking (1:01:41) But from the from the storytelling perspective, you know stuff like that (1:01:45) But the interviewer he could kind of just completely completely misunderstood that and he thought I meant (1:01:52) By saying he thought I meant that as in crossing ethical boundaries, right like making up a story (1:02:00) Oh, he thought I meant like oh using using videos like whatever way you want (1:02:08) It's like obviously not what I'm talking about I'm talking about you can use what I said for right like a edit was (1:02:15) manipulation either right like (1:02:18) What I say for for any any sort any kind of filmmaking in general, you know (1:02:24) Obviously the ethical guidelines, you know permissions and stuff like that (1:02:27) You gotta you gotta get that taken care of you can't even do that. Like you shouldn't be in filmmaking, right? (1:02:33) Yeah, that's unfortunate (1:02:35) See mark jerk face jerk face and I Danny (1:02:38) I thought you handled yourself very well when he you when he said well the guy hired the worst attorney possible (1:02:44) The crew whatever the term the adjective was and you addressed he said yes (1:02:49) Regarding this I would do that.However, da da da da and I thought you handled yourself very well when he became accusatory (1:02:55) So I compliment you on that (1:02:58) Thank you for that and I can't wait to compliment you after I watch it after this (1:03:07) So Danny is there anything else you wanted to share with us any other stories or (1:03:14) You guys were asking about following projects and somehow absolutely (1:03:19) Anyway, so for my (1:03:22) my following projects what I've been thinking of doing it was (1:03:26) Have one big project a year (1:03:28) while also having smaller projects on my youtube channel, you know, so (1:03:34) the COVID type videos on YouTube (1:03:37) Would be that type of video, you know (1:03:40) Working on another one of those right now more investigative type (1:03:44) that would be for YouTube and (1:03:47) for (1:03:48) The mainstream more mainstream one. I'll also produce one (1:03:53) every year go hoping to (1:03:56) produce one (1:03:57) right now and (1:04:00) That would be the one that I would take to the film festivals and go the mainstream route (1:04:06) Seems like you're hitting it from both sides. It's a really good way to diversify (1:04:10) Yes.Yes, you know because it's so unpredictable, right? (1:04:16) Well, I mean, let's be honest (1:04:17) I'd you know (1:04:17) We're trying to be find the truth and we're finding that certain aspects of the mainstream media have been withholding or you know (1:04:24) Pushing or pulling agendas how they see fit and it's not the only way to do business anymore (1:04:31) There are workarounds so we have to take advantage of that exactly but for my for my next project though. I would love it to (1:04:38) To premiere at some festivals and be competitive during the awards (1:04:43) Because (1:04:45) you know, that's one of the biggest criticism of square one, which is very valid was um, (1:04:51) there's a lot of the from a lot of like the technical aspects, right, but the thing is it's (1:04:56) Why I was doing square one a lot of the things I truly truly didn't understand about filmmaking (1:05:03) Because I was I had two roles to go down (1:05:07) Because I could either learn about filmmaking (1:05:11) Right take my time learn everything about filmmaking then go film it (1:05:15) That's gonna take a lot of time, you know, right? (1:05:18) That's like a long way to go or you can kind of learn them. Yeah, that's a (1:05:22) or or I could just make it to how I know would fit and (1:05:28) then start (1:05:30) Learning it on the way doing it both the same time and I chose I chose doing at the same time (1:05:34) Yeah, it's almost like a trade when you're doing it, you know as you learn right exactly (1:05:39) Yes, so you can prepare all you want but there's always gonna be challenges that come up (1:05:44) It's great to get started right away and get those get those feet wet and start charging.I mean, yeah, and (1:05:50) You know when you look at a lot of the guidelines and stuff like that (1:05:54) You know, it's not even recommended to start a documentary until you have like proper funding have a proper budget (1:06:00) You know of how how you do things and I think there's I just I just had um, I was just so clueless (1:06:06) You know, I had the audacity to be like idiot to just go out and just film it. However, I want (1:06:14) Do it all by myself. So it seemed to work out.Okay, and you probably learned a crap ton of things, right? (1:06:20) Oh hundred percent hundred percent learn learn so much from this process and just just filmmaking in general (1:06:25) You know, I always loved love love love movies (1:06:28) You know, my dad is a huge huge cinephile (1:06:32) So growing up I watched so many tons of great movies with him, you know silent films black-and-white films (1:06:39) Classic Hollywood, you know (1:06:42) French new wave stuff like that and (1:06:45) It's always um, I think that that helped me a lot as well from a storytelling perspective (1:06:52) Absolutely because that was a lot more into the story back then right they didn't have the visuals like they do now (1:06:58) Exactly. Exactly. What are the couple topics that you're hoping to focus on in your next couple projects? (1:07:06) from a YouTube (1:07:08) YouTube one it's uh (1:07:09) it's gonna be about uh, I don't give it away, but it's gonna be a similar similar case of the MJ one, but it's (1:07:19) It's it's not gonna be someone that well known to the mainstream audience (1:07:23) I don't think except to stay tuned for that.So more of an investigation style. Okay (1:07:31) And for the one that I'm taking to the festival, that's where I'm because I've been living in China for the past half a year (1:07:41) I've shot a I've shot a documentary in China (1:07:46) It's not it's not it's not gonna be government related it's gonna be a character study (1:07:51) It's gonna be a character study and that sounds cool (1:07:54) Yeah, because there's a lot of the times these things are so you can't make a documentary about something in another country (1:08:02) Especially like China without it being politicized, you know, right you completely missed the point of how like day-to-day citizens live (1:08:10) But so we got half that done now (1:08:14) The other half is gonna be shot in the u.s (1:08:18) But many I can't really travel to the u.s. Right now, so it's gonna I'm gonna have to wait a little bit (1:08:25) So speaking of China in your in your YouTube documentary regarding kovat or corona virus what everyone to call it (1:08:33) When did you finally leave China? (1:08:37) When did I leave when my visa when my visa expired so that's when you finally (1:08:43) Were able to leave the country. Yeah, I mean I would have stayed longer (1:08:48) Okay, because the situation there right now is a lot better than it is here in Vancouver, right (1:08:54) because like let me tell you how insane it was we had a (1:08:58) we like I I had a face I had my face mask on outside and I I (1:09:04) Kind of just like took it off to like kind of cough and this guy beside me was like did you hear what happened in? (1:09:09) This other city that was beside us and what happened was like someone got quarantined like that.That's how it was (1:09:16) Like if you if you had at our peak in our city (1:09:19) We had around 20 cases and they were acting like it was like the end of the world man. It was insane (1:09:26) Wow, that was January February (1:09:30) Yes, every March. Okay, like for example right now (1:09:34) I hear that there's a case in a mall and the mall don't even close.So it's like it's very puzzling to me (1:09:39) Probably in the food court (1:09:43) I (1:09:43) Got a little fever a couple days and he's got some explaining to do (1:09:48) Got a little fever a couple days ago and I had to go do a kovat test (1:09:51) Holy mackerel everything. Okay. Yeah.Yeah. I got the results today. Oh good another congratulations (1:10:00) Yeah, so (1:10:01) How is it? What are the conditions like up there? I mean, we don't I don't know anything about the conditions up there (1:10:06) I know that Arizona Florida and Texas had huge spikes because we decided to all get together again (1:10:13) It's a big party (1:10:15) Canada I think I (1:10:19) Really don't I really don't even know I just I see cases like I just follow the Instagram page (1:10:24) that tells you where they have new cases and (1:10:28) It's just it's just puzzling to me that the malls will stay open when there's a case inside the mall (1:10:32) It does seem odd.Well, Arizona yesterday had negative two cases negative two deaths. How do you have negative two cases? (1:10:39) I'm just letting you know, sir. I'm not good at math.That's much crap. I think they over counted the day before it's weird (1:10:45) We had like zero but we had over counted by two the day before so they gave us negative (1:10:50) So we're improving greatly (1:10:53) Recovery in the world. We're having resurrections apparently (1:10:57) Zombies (1:10:58) So yeah, but so is it like a whole mask up thing real quick? (1:11:01) I I don't mind going back to like the other conversation (1:11:05) I was just curious what it's like are they pretty strict about masks in Canada? Not really (1:11:10) I mean indoors yes, but outdoors barely anyone's wearing them.Yeah, that's pretty much here (1:11:16) But in the in the mall are all the stores open in the mall (1:11:19) Except the store that the person like got infected in which I don't know how that works (1:11:25) You got to leave a mall. You got to go into it, you know (1:11:27) Yeah, wouldn't you follow the video camera to see every store that? (1:11:31) China what would happen is that they would track this guy down and they would track every guy (1:11:37) This guy was near and then quarantine all of them (1:11:39) Like all days, for example, they had 12 cases in Beijing or four (1:11:44) It was like 12 cases or something like that and it was the internet went crazy. It was like, yeah, we're we're idiots (1:11:50) Like we're gonna we're screwing this up again (1:11:52) We're the embarrassment of the world and they quarantine over 24,000 people.I think over that (1:11:59) Beijing has 20 million people right? Mm-hmm, and they had 12 cases (1:12:04) this was like during the recovery though, like during the right all of a sudden we had 12 and (1:12:10) and (1:12:10) You know the entire the entire country man (1:12:13) Was just they were just like that. We're done. We're gonna be Italy.This is gonna be worse (1:12:19) We're gonna be worse than Wuhan like we're screwing this up for everyone (1:12:22) It was just hilarious to see it but heck they're really efficient. It seems like yeah because of the freaking (1:12:29) You know when it comes to stuff like this they they can like they can like hang their head up high (1:12:34) Yeah, but also it's like (1:12:39) Because obviously everyone has heard about the whores of like how they have security cameras everywhere and stuff like that (1:12:44) But it's like my my friend over there (1:12:47) He lost his dog and they were able to like trace his dog back to him to see where he ran (1:12:52) So that's kind of like but it's the same way with CCTV (1:12:56) I mean isn't aren't there other countries that are just as just the same London's really good (1:13:02) I heard so how do you I can't I can't see that that's (1:13:07) there's other countries that are (1:13:10) Democratic or whatever word you want to use that have just as many cameras as China. Mm-hmm (1:13:15) I mean, oh, or maybe I'm totally full of crap.Yeah, I mean there's a I think there's a there's also like the (1:13:23) Social Security score stuff like that, but I'm told by people there that it's like no one's really using it because it's just it's too (1:13:32) Many people to track, you know, so it's more of a more of a thing. They say on the surface even (1:13:38) So even even with the censorship what happens is like they're like they're crazy ready sensor everything but what happens is um (1:13:45) There's usually like a there's usually like a few hour PR period (1:13:50) Where where they can't censor everything because the flood of comments just come in (1:13:55) So you would I would go to sleep at night and everyone is like criticizing them and I wake up in the morning (1:14:01) Everything is gone. Oh my gosh (1:14:04) So they just like bombarded all at the same time and then they start deleting the manual as they (1:14:11) Go back and delete the comments.Basically the CCP they (1:14:17) That's not the CCP, I don't know the acronym can't think of it this moment, but um the government can we just call him the state (1:14:24) Hey, just um, they they they censor everything that (1:14:27) That um that talks against them, you know, they hate criticism (1:14:31) Even even when I released a YouTube video, you know, I was kind of I was scared man (1:14:36) Like her I've heard horror stories of people people like going missing for stuff like this, you know posting something anti (1:14:43) like not exactly like saying they did a great job, you know, and I (1:14:49) found out because I (1:14:50) Know a lot of people there in these type of things that if you do it if you tell if you like (1:14:56) Talk bad about them outside of China like it's usually fine (1:15:00) But if you do it like in a Chinese network, like then you're toast (1:15:04) Yeah, I can imagine (1:15:06) That would almost be like treasonous. I would think yeah, I'm not gonna get to to (1:15:11) Too much into this though, because I don't know. I'm happy to step away from that.Yeah, I'm just curious (1:15:20) I'm just curious because it's an environment that I know very little about and I'm that's my how my brain works that if there's something (1:15:27) Anything that I don't know about I ask questions about because I liked to know stuff about stuff that I don't know about (1:15:33) Yeah, we Chris and I have no other agenda other than our innate curiosity about things (1:15:40) Yeah, yeah, I separate the Chinese culture from the Chinese government (1:15:45) Absolutely. I love how you mentioned that on yes and that YouTube videos and then that's so true (1:15:51) It's like the people are kind warm gentle people that has nothing to do with the state that's running things (1:15:57) I know people people sometimes just they can't they can't seem to (1:16:01) Like find a difference, you know (1:16:04) It seems obvious. There's a huge difference.It's kind of sad, but it is very sad (1:16:10) Because I guess there's also like a pretty freaking big like vocal (1:16:15) nationalistic like (1:16:17) Chinese (1:16:19) Group but it's like what do you expect them to do but it's literally like (1:16:24) You can't just like you can't be like a license to be racist towards them, you know, right? Yeah, right (1:16:31) It's it's an it's unfortunate. I mean, but that's the that's the thing (1:16:35) That's divide-and-conquer by other like information news sources (1:16:38) They kind of want us going at each other so they can do their own stuff behind this (1:16:43) like I live in a pretty (1:16:45) Asian there's a lot of Asians in Vancouver (1:16:48) But even at the mall (1:16:50) like when I first got out of self-isolation, I went to the mall and (1:16:55) There was this there's this older white gentleman who was just going off at this like Asian guy (1:17:02) Like old guy and the old I didn't know what they were saying (1:17:06) But the old guy was just repeating like hey, it's 2020. Stop saying that to me.It's 2020 man. It's 2020 (1:17:11) It was just heartbreaking to watch (1:17:14) Wow (1:17:14) And you know, even even a I think a couple of weeks ago (1:17:18) So I was walking I was walking to get a popcorn (1:17:23) And someone pushed me from behind and said learn to walk straight (1:17:29) and I'm like like I just said fuck out of here and (1:17:33) The guy comes back to me all up in my face and he's just like (1:17:38) Hating me like following like he started he started following me for like a few steps (1:17:43) Vancouver. Yeah, this is in Richmond.I had it on video. It was on my Instagram story Wow, and (1:17:53) Social media, I'm sorry tangent tangent (1:17:57) Social media I suck at you guys gotta get into that if you I'm trying I'm trying my hardest man (1:18:02) I'm burned out after like a month (1:18:05) Mm-hmm, and I just started so I apologize for my (1:18:10) Novice amateurs Danny my dogs will follow you on Instagram right after this (1:18:15) Thank you so much Anita (1:18:17) Need them Instagram followers, you know, we will vote we will do both. Can you tell us the Instagram? Is it at Danny Wu? (1:18:24) Dy woo dy w you that's my nickname y w you got it (1:18:30) Then get nicknamed dy woo and my actual name has less syllables nice (1:18:36) That's ironic.Isn't that funny? So how'd you get the nickname? No, I'm just kidding. I obviously know how you get the nickname (1:18:42) There's a Danny you woo. That's my um, it's my phone name (1:18:46) Very nice, and that's your inst.That's your Twitter. I think right at Danny Danny. Will you it's like yeah (1:18:54) Nice.Excellent. All right. See we got you.I followed you on that one. I just don't know (1:18:58) I don't I like I said, I've got a face for podcasting. So I don't take many pictures.You're not an Instagrammer (1:19:05) I am NOT a grammar of the in just take pictures of your food, bro (1:19:08) Maybe I'll do that. See tell me you're welcome. Thank you.I want some stuff (1:19:14) Yes, I haven't seen what you guys look like but um, you definitely have a voice thank you (1:19:22) That's why there's a dog only is (1:19:26) We tried really hard actually we found I think to your point you were talking about sound like quality, right? (1:19:32) When we started this we want this to have some kind of purpose to it (1:19:36) And we felt we invested a good amount of money into the studio equipment just to make the quality sound (1:19:43) You know acceptable, you know, we want it to sound good and professionally done. We actually care about the topics that we talked about (1:19:50) Mm-hmm. I think yeah, you're my quality is just it's incredible (1:19:55) Thank you.Sure SM 7b (1:19:58) And by the way, I don't know if did you did you hear that? This is the microphone (1:20:01) This is the the following microphone. The predecessor microphone was the one Michael Jackson used to record a thriller Wow (1:20:09) Yeah, the sure I said I did. I did think I heard it you guys mentioned on the last podcast I did (1:20:15) Yes, correct (1:20:16) So these are actually the 7b is the following of the SM 7 which is the one Michael Jackson used to record thriller (1:20:23) The album not just the song.I mean my wow, I'm still I'm still like shocked about it. But you know, I (1:20:30) Knew it but it wasn't it wasn't fake. I'm stressing.Yeah, we're just full of crap over here too. That's cool. We're good (1:20:38) That's all my questions Marcus.So is there anything else you want to share with us Danny? (1:20:42) Tell us a little bit more obviously we want to make sure that you get the (1:20:46) Proper recognition for all the hard work you put into this and and once again be clear (1:20:51) We're we always want to offer someone to express themselves. We're not here to take a side or anything (1:20:56) We're gonna release this exactly how we recorded it. So, you know, we just wanted to honor that, you know (1:21:02) Give you that honor as well.So if there's anything else you want to share and give us all your (1:21:07) Ways to get a hold of you so we can add to your following just please please go ahead and state them now (1:21:12) Well, we'll put them on the website as well (1:21:14) It is just like search Danny will usually I'll come up and just follow me there (1:21:20) perfect (1:21:21) Except Instagram is dy who? (1:21:24) Do you I woo? Yeah, and that was instant. We know we're gonna we're gonna both follow you look for Roxy underscore and underscore Anders (1:21:32) That's it the two dogs. There's gonna be that's gonna be Chris's two dogs (1:21:36) I haven't I haven't done a podcast in a long long time.Well, thank you so much for your time (1:21:42) I mean, this was great for us because we we wanted to get to know you also (1:21:45) We didn't we didn't just want to make this a square one centric type thing (1:21:49) But we want to hear your stories and you know get to know you so if you're in Phoenix, let us know we're here (1:21:55) We'd love to we'd love maybe we can break bread sometime. I have good good friend Edwin that lives in lives in Phoenix (1:22:01) He's also um a big big youtuber that I (1:22:04) Met at one of the premieres (1:22:07) Excellent. Yeah, we could love to get in touch with me.We could do collaborate on something. Yeah. Yeah, it sounds good, man (1:22:12) Danny, thank you so much for for being with us.Once again. This has been a knocked conscious episode Christopher. Would you like to say? (1:22:20) Cello or anti-ghost.Thank you, Danny. Really appreciate your time. Thank you so much.Thank you (1:22:24) Once again, we were here with Danny Wu the producer and director of square one documentary Danny. Thank you so much again (1:22:32) We're gonna be out of here. Please check us out and knocked conscious.Thanks so much