Transcript of our conversation with Anthony S. Picco (Part 1) 6/7/2020

(0:19) Hello and welcome to Knocked Conscious. This is Mark Puls. I'm here with Mr. Peralta, Christopher, (0:25) and I have a gentleman named Anthony Picco.

Anthony S. Pico has been a professional astrologer for (0:30) 34 plus years and has been a professional Capricorn all his life. Although knowledgeable (0:36) about all branches of astrology, he primarily focuses on natal or birth chart astrology, (0:41) helping people to help themselves. Find him at cosmictuesdays.wordpress.com. (0:48) Welcome, Anthony.

How are you doing today? Pretty good. Can't complain. How's life where (0:53) you guys are? Hot.

Dry. Good. Good for the most part.

We hit like 111 last week, (1:00) so we know how that works. Much hotter than here. So Anthony, I have only been on this journey for (1:07) a handful of years, and you've been doing this for 34 plus years.

And you were the first person (1:14) with whom I interviewed regarding my spiritual journey. So this is so great for me. I'm so (1:19) excited that you're on today because I get to have you on.

It's fun and it always comes full (1:25) cycle. I learned a lot from you. The thing about running shows like this is we talk about things (1:31) we know, and then we talk to people we don't know anything about.

And I've learned a lot from you (1:35) too. So one hand washes the other, as they say. Absolutely.

It's certainly reciprocal. (1:42) So what we decided to do today, if you'd love to tell us a little bit about your background, (1:46) how you got into astrology, and all that. And then afterwards, we have Chris here with his (1:52) birth information, and you're going to do a reading for him, right? (1:56) Oh, yes.

Yes, I am. I got into astrology. Well, I thought it was absolute garbage.

(2:05) I had been studying stuff beforehand. I took Silva Mind Control, which is actually a very (2:11) interesting course to enlighten people with, where it teaches you a lot of mystical stuff (2:16) without attaching anything mystical to it. Silva Mind Control talks about programming your brain (2:21) and your thought patterns without evoking spirits, or God, or Jesus, or whoever you might want to (2:28) evoke, or any Hindu gods, or whatever.

And it sort of programmed me to a certain degree. I managed (2:36) to get past some of my prejudices. And I also studied a bit with the Alan Watts Zen stuff, (2:41) and trying to understand the concepts of reality, like what is real, what isn't real.

But astrology (2:47) just seemed like a bag of garbage to me. It's like, oh, how do those planets affect you? And (2:51) this is all nonsense and blah. And plus, it didn't help that the mother of one of my friends was so (2:56) totally into astrology, and she just annoyed the living bejesus out of me.

So I was already (3:00) prejudiced against it. So in 1982, I had a girlfriend who went and had her chart read. (3:10) And she came back, and she said, you know, it was really, really accurate.

It might be worth (3:15) just checking out. And it was such a non-aggressive way of encouraging me in. I figured, okay.

And it (3:23) happened to be around that time, I had noticed a lot of the people I knew and liked had birthdays (3:29) around the same two times of the year. So I thought, well, I didn't deliberately do that. (3:34) What day was that? Well, in my case, I had a lot of Tauruses in my life.

I'm a Capricorn. (3:40) And I also had a lot of very early Libras, late Virgos in my life. And so we're talking May, (3:48) and we're talking a lot of late September, around the 23rd, roughly.

(3:53) My birthday is the 30th, so we're close. September, yeah. (3:58) And Chris is September 14.

So we'll all get along fine today. (4:04) So I was a little curious, and I went and had my chart read. And I should preface this by saying (4:11) that as a Capricorn, Capricorns are prone to a certain amount of paranoia, because we like to (4:18) project a certain image.

So if anybody really knows us genuinely, it kind of freaks us out a (4:23) little bit. I was so freaked out by the end of my astrology reading. I wanted to know how long (4:30) she'd been tapping my phone, how she got her hands on my diaries, and which one of my friends she'd (4:35) been talking to.

It's funny how that happens, isn't it? Yeah, it was so damn accurate. (4:40) So what happened is I have enough Scorpio in my chart that I just have to get to the bottom of (4:45) things. And of course, the paranoid Capricorn's like, how did you find out all my secrets? (4:51) So I just started grabbing book after book, after book, after book, and just reading them.

And some (4:55) of them were garbage, and some of them weren't. And I just started processing a tremendous amount (5:00) of information. And of course, the next thing you do when you're doing that is you start grabbing (5:04) your friends going, hey, come here, let me do your chart.

I know that feel. I remember when (5:09) I first had that little woke me, let's see what we can do. Let's meditate.

Let's see what we can (5:13) do. I get it. So what happened was I was playing with it.

And actually, a friend of mine, (5:20) the third chart I did was also knocked out by it. And so he started studying astrology too, (5:25) we studied together. And he actually caught up with me and passed me a long time ago.

(5:31) So I was a little struggling with it, because on one level, I thought I had to memorize like (5:36) 100,000 different little things. And it was a little mind boggling. But I was lucky enough (5:41) to stumble across a book that called The Inner Sky by Stephen Forrest.

If anyone is listening, (5:48) and is a serious astrology beginner, that is a wonderful starting point, because that book (5:53) strips everything down to its core meanings. And then at the end of the book, builds it all back (5:59) up again into a chart. So I kind of what I kind of realized at some point from this book is that (6:06) astrology is sort of a language, and you make sentences with it.

So if you understand the basic (6:12) grammar, you can you can speak any language. Now what I mean by that is that the components (6:19) of astrology, the moon, the sun, the planets, the signs, the houses, and the aspects, (6:26) in a nutshell, philosophically, the planets will indicate energy that needs to be expressed, (6:33) okay, a particular kind of it. So the Mars is how we take action and how we're aggressive.

Mercury (6:40) is how we think and process information. Saturn is how we behave and control ourselves. (6:47) Jupiter is how we expand and grow.

Venus indicates, of course, logically, love and affection and (6:52) friendships, and a different kind of communication than Mercury. Mercury is like mind communications. (6:58) Venus is kind of like schmoozing and connecting.

The moon is your subconscious and your emotional (7:02) side. So these, and this is again, this is extremely simplified. So we have all these (7:07) energies that want to be expressed.

The sign the planet is in shows you the way that the style and (7:12) energy which that thing is going to get expressed. So if you're Mars, the planet of action is in Aries, (7:18) which is a very forward sign. You're the kind of person that's going to do something right now.

(7:22) You understand right now we have to do it. You're going to be kind of impulsive and very impatient. (7:26) But if your Mars is in Capricorn, you're going to take action by planning ahead, (7:30) deciding what's the most efficient way to do it, and then kind of getting something done with it.

(7:36) If your Mars is in Aquarius, like somebody on the show, but I won't mention names, (7:42) because we had a spoiler alert. (7:46) Mars in Aquarius is often because Aquarius is kind of an offbeat original sign. People with (7:50) Mars in Aquarius are always trying to do things their own way.

They'll come up with new ways to (7:54) do things and often have problems with authorities because authorities tend not to want you to do it (7:59) new way. Stop it. Stop it.

And look, in general in life, not even astrology, never ask permission (8:07) because people always say no. Yeah, ask for forgiveness. Come on.

That's exactly it. Just (8:11) do it, then ask for forgiveness. That's right.

At least you got a chance to do it. See, I should (8:15) have been in the Marine Corps. So the planet is the energy.

The sign is how you express it. (8:23) The house, where the planet falls, shows that area in life where you will bring that to bear (8:29) the strongest. Okay.

So if you're Mars, that Mars, that aggressive quality is in your career, (8:35) you might be very direct and forceful in your career. If it's in your first house of personality, (8:41) you might be an incredibly forward person. And then we would color it in with, well, (8:44) is that forward person with Mars in the first house? Is it in Aquarius? Is it in Aries? What (8:50) sign is it in to say what kind of a forward person you're going to be? And of course, we tie (8:54) in the other planets too.

And finally, what aspects are, let's see how simply I can put this. (9:02) The astrology wheel is 360 degrees. If you divide it into quarters, you have 90 degree angles.

This (9:09) is basic math. If two planets are at 90 degrees to each other, they're considered to be squaring (9:16) each other. And that means that those two planets will have trouble getting along.

(9:21) Okay. So it might be one example, as long as we're sticking with Mars so much and Mars is (9:27) about aggression and anger and assertiveness. If Mars is squaring the moon, which is about (9:32) your emotional expression, usually that person has quite a temper because their first response (9:38) to emotions is to get angry.

Okay. Okay. Now, if it's, if it forms a harmonious angle, which is (9:45) when you cut the circle into thirds, 120 degrees, then the Mars and the moon will flow well (9:51) together.

They might be very good at expressing the anger in their emotions without necessarily (9:55) having temper tantrums. Interesting. So that's what I mean about how really astrology is a, (10:01) when you strip it down, like the inner sky describes, it's really a way of putting the (10:06) sentence together.

Well, we have Mars in Cancer in the third house, squaring Neptune. What does (10:11) that mean? And you get, that's kind of a set. If I said that to another astrology, they'd go, (10:16) oh, he must.

And they'd give me comments right away because they would learn the language. (10:20) So that's just kind of like, you mentioned like a recipe and then it's how you put the (10:25) ingredients together. Right.

It's kind of like you add the dry to the wet. You don't add the wet (10:29) to the dry kind of thing. Right.

It's only a teaspoon, not a cup of that. Okay. Right.

And (10:34) it's measurements and all that kind of stuff. So that's kind of a very basic way how to read a (10:40) chart. Uh, of course there's a lot more nuances, but I'm just trying to give you an idea of how (10:44) we actually go about putting it together for those of us.

So what happens by the time I finished the (10:49) inner sky, I realized if I just memorized about a hundred things and knew how to stick them together (10:54) into sentences, so to speak, then I didn't have to memorize 10,000 things, you know, I could figure (11:00) it out. Um, so that's kind of, you understood the relationship between them all. Bingo.

Bingo. Yes, (11:05) absolutely. And, uh, you know, I started grabbing people's charts and I told people, you know, um, (11:11) I'm a beginner, you know, I'm going to get the basic stuff.

I might miss the nuances. (11:16) And, uh, I got a lesson very early on, uh, that, that really taught me to trust astrology. (11:23) I had a friend of mine, I'd known him for about five years and I thought I knew him, (11:26) you know, I hung out with him for five years.

We hung out pretty regularly. We talked a lot. (11:30) And, uh, when I was working on his chart before I met him to talk about it, um, there was all this (11:37) kind of negative stuff that I was like, oh, he's not like that.

He's, I wrote it down, but I figured (11:42) I won't bother bringing that up. So I sat with him and I told him all the good stuff. And I said, (11:48) so that's your reading.

And he was like, is that it? Nothing else? You sure there's nothing else? (11:53) I said, okay, well, you know, it's all this negative stuff. And I told it to him and he (12:00) opened up to me and told me all the things that he never told me in five years. His mother was (12:07) mentally ill.

She disrupted the family. His brother died when he was eight. It was a horror in the (12:12) family.

He had a terrible childhood and that's awful. And, and I'm just sitting there going like, (12:17) uh, uh, and that's when I looked at it and I said, don't, don't trust yourself. Trust astrology (12:24) because I would have dismissed all of that because I, I thought I knew my friend.

(12:29) Right. Cause you, you, you spent time when you broke bread with them and (12:32) we talked about deep stuff sometimes, you know, um, as a result, we became even better friends, (12:40) but that's where it taught me. Like, don't, I don't mean to sound cynical, but don't think, (12:45) you know, people, a lot of stuff goes on behind closed doors that none of us knows.

(12:50) And astrology is a way to get to that. Um, and in the hands of a decent human being, (12:57) it's a wonderful gift. I mean, over the years, uh, knowing astrology has not been as important (13:02) to me as helping people deal with what's in their chart, you know, and helping them understand that, (13:09) uh, sometimes if you shift your perspective a little bit, you know, like that person that (13:14) automatically goes to aggression, you know, this moon square Mars that I mentioned, (13:18) uh, which is not in anybody's chart on the show, um, is, uh, you might want to turn to them and (13:23) say, you know what, when somebody says something that pisses you off, count to 10, just take a (13:28) breath, just hold on and see if you want to have this fight.

You know, that's a great point. Um, (13:33) so what, what ideally I do is I show people where you have these strengths and you can use them to (13:38) help offset the challenges and learn to grow with your challenges as opposed to, you know, misfiring (13:44) because that's everything in astrology has a dark and light side. Um, you know, (13:49) I think everything in life, right.

I mean, let's be honest. I mean, (13:52) the whole universe is based on balance. Everything has to equal zero.

Ultimately. (13:56) That's right. You're a Libra anyway.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

It all has to be bad. (14:07) But even so, you know, every planet, every planet and everything has a, uh, a positive (14:13) manifestation in a, in a less than ideal. I don't want to say bad because that's judgmental.

(14:18) It's a judgment and yeah, it's put, it's, we don't need to put a negative spin on anything, (14:21) right? Things are just are right. They are. But you may find, you know, one thing, (14:26) it was funny.

I, I, for a short while I dated this girl and she was one of those women, (14:31) actually a woman who, uh, always has to do what her boyfriend was doing. So she decided to become (14:35) an astrologer. And, um, I don't know if she was necessarily suited to be an astrologer, (14:40) but I didn't mind teaching her.

Well, she decided to do our boss at the play. I was working with (14:46) her and he was about our age. It's not like he was this, like, I'm the boss.

And you know, (14:49) he's a kind of a peer group. So I said, you go do his chart and, uh, and I'll step in afterwards (14:56) to clean up just in case. Cause you know, it's a first reading, you know? Yeah.

There, I mean, (15:02) there could be one misunderstanding could really take you probably in a branch off like an offshoot (15:07) that you don't want to go. Right. Well, she apparently specialized in misunderstandings.

(15:13) I went in there, the boss, uh, looked like a ghost. I'm like, what's the matter? And he goes, (15:20) I have no reason to live. I'm like, what the hell are you talking about? And he brought up one (15:26) example.

Um, he mentioned in his chart and I'll explain it very quickly. He has a Venus squaring (15:33) Neptune. Venus is how we relate to people.

Uh, Neptune can be very deeply spiritual and idealistic (15:39) and it can also on the other side be a little delusional. Um, because sometimes if you get (15:43) too idealistic, you're not seeing what's actually in front of you. Okay.

So you can get the vibe, (15:48) you get the vibe in that. And if it's squaring or has a challenging relationship with Venus, (15:53) the planet of one-to-one relationships, you can sometimes have issues with friends because you (15:59) didn't perceive them clearly. Okay.

Okay. So she had told him, you can't trust your friends. (16:07) It's like, well, that's not particularly useful.

Okay. That's a little, uh, that's a little X (16:13) biology. Yeah.

And can't trust anyone. And what I came in and I, I again, having spent time doing (16:19) this and learning the nuances of it, I said, well, here's the problem. I said, you idealize people (16:23) and you think everybody's wonderful, but, but not everybody is right now.

Everybody is wonderful (16:29) when you get down to the core of their soul, but not all of us are manifesting our best. (16:34) No, certainly not. Yeah.

So I said, in a case, in his case, I said, be a little careful with your (16:38) friends. Some of them are going to be losers and it doesn't mean you can't be friends with them, (16:42) but don't necessarily trust them the way you trust the ones that are got it together. (16:47) So that was a different way of putting it.

And then ironically, now I have it in my chart too. (16:52) And, uh, sometimes as an astrologer, I'll every couple of years, I'll change, I'll exchange readings (16:56) with another astrologer. Cause it's nice to get a different viewpoint about your own chart.

(17:01) You know, the, I can't see itself as they say. And, uh, recently this woman looked at my Neptune (17:06) square Venus and said that, uh, I love the way she put this. You don't do your homework before (17:12) you fall in love.

And I just had a laugh because it was a perfect way to describe Neptune and Venus. (17:18) You just rush in idealistically without ever really double checking. And then of course you (17:23) get burned because that is really interesting.

So, so part of the art of a, of an astrologer, (17:29) not necessarily astrology, but the astrologer, him or herself is the way that you explain to (17:34) people what's going on in a way that they can comprehend it and do something with it. (17:39) Just telling somebody you can't trust your friends. It's like, well, fine, shoot me.

(17:42) You know, what are you going to do with it? Yeah. There's no, it doesn't, it's, (17:46) it's not a how it's a, you know, just making statements like that without any kind of (17:50) resolution kind of leaves you listless. You're kind of floating in the wind or, you know, (17:54) hanging out there in the wind.

So, so along the way I've learned, I've learned more about people. (17:58) I mean, astrology understood pretty well, but I've discovered that, um, sometimes you learn when (18:03) you're doing a reading, people will do something and you'll look at it and go, that makes perfect (18:06) sense. I wouldn't have translated it that way, but given the parameters of what we're looking at, (18:12) it makes perfect sense.

And then I learned something. I mean, I'm still, every astrologer (18:16) still learns from almost every reading because there's little nuances. People are not that, (18:21) people are fairly complex.

I mean, the basics are there. We all, you know, when I first look at a (18:26) chart, uh, I'll kind of strip it down to like career relationships, family finances, and health. (18:34) Those are the five things we all care about.

Really? Yeah, absolutely. You can pull that out (18:40) of a chart, but, uh, there are still all these subtle nuances in how we go about dealing with (18:45) the things we deny, the things we're afraid of, the things we're comfortable with. Um, (18:50) so it's a constant learning process and sometimes it's hysterically funny.

Uh, (18:55) I did this husband and a wife together, which is always risky. (19:00) That sounds like a recipe for divorce. I don't even know.

(19:02) Uh, well, it hasn't been yet, but, uh, this, this one particular guy was very argumentative. It was (19:09) in his chart and, uh, and they're doing the chart at the same time. And I'm trying to explain to him (19:15) that he's argumentative and essentially it became a Monty Python routine.

You're very argumentative. (19:19) No, I'm not. No, it's here in your chart.

I'm not that way. And I tried, I kept trying to come up (19:24) with different nuances. And after about three or four minutes, his wife just touched his arm and (19:27) said, dear, you're argumentative.

Stop arguing with, thank God she was there. I could have been (19:34) there for hours. Uh, it sounds like it would have been right.

You know, so that's funny. (19:39) There's things that you can laugh at as the way they, you know, the, the way she cut the brick (19:42) sometimes hit, you know, when, and you realize, well, of course that's what he's going to say, (19:47) you know, I'm an idiot trying to convince him and he's going to be argumentative. (19:51) So, uh, it's been a fat, look, the 34 years have been a fascinating lesson in humanity.

(19:56) I can only imagine. And the funny thing is, although Capricorns, (20:00) uh, can be a bit judgmental, uh, and this is, this is usually when my wife goes a bit from the (20:05) next room. Um, one of the things astrology did for me was it actually made me less judgmental (20:12) because I stopped thinking why that's an idiot.

And instead of thinking, (20:15) I wonder what's going on in their chart. What are they dealing with that? I'm not right. So (20:21) sometimes it's like somebody that never shuts up.

Well, it's in their chart. They don't, (20:25) they don't know how to shut up. They maybe need to learn how, or somebody is always making bad (20:28) decisions.

You realize it's in their chart, you know? So it doesn't mean it can't be remedied (20:33) and can't be, uh, alleviated or, or ameliorated in a way that makes them function better as a (20:38) duct tape. Uh, and that too, uh, nobody's too Virgo in this, in this show. Anyway, (20:48) I was called super Virgo recently.

Uh, well, you got a few planets in Virgo. It's true. Yeah.

Um, (20:54) we'll get into your chart. You'll be sorry. Anyway.

Oh, I already am. We haven't even started (20:59) yet. He's already breathing heavy and sweating on the video.

Wait till you see this, Anthony. He's (21:04) just like panting and just sweating right now. I'm just waiting.

Um, so, so that's what I see (21:10) astrology as it's, it's really, uh, at least the way I use it, the natal chart readings, (21:14) it's a good way to identify somebody skills where they're strong and confident with it, (21:18) where you can tell them they can trust themselves, you know, and then where you can tell them where, (21:22) you know, you want to be a little careful. You might not be a hundred percent on target here. (21:26) And there's some things you have to learn.

And sometimes it's sort of funny. I did a chart once (21:30) for this woman and I said, oh, you're really good with bookkeeping and numbers. And she was like, (21:34) I hate bookkeeping.

And I said, I didn't say you liked it. I said, you were good at it. (21:38) And she said, that's right.

Every time she tried to quit, they'd give her a raise and wanted to (21:42) stay. So just because you're good at something doesn't even mean you would necessarily like it. (21:46) You know? Correct.

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, our skills, there's so many things. I mean, (21:50) nurture is part of it.

Like if I learned to be a mechanic, but I wanted to be a pilot, (21:56) I may have been picking up a wrench for 30 years. So I'm a mechanic regardless of what I desire. (22:00) I might have a hobby as a pilot, but my profession would be in the mechanic.

(22:05) Yeah. And that's part of how, you know, there's always various things you can manifest in a (22:09) chart, you know, and, uh, you know, for example, in my chart, um, there's a lot of things that (22:13) indicate I'm great with graphic arts. I'm not, I'm not always the most logical thinker.

I tend (22:19) to be more intuitive and, uh, in a bit of a fog, you know, which worked well as an art director (22:24) on magazines. Um, but then what happened is when I got a significant transit, which maybe we'll (22:30) talk about later, Saturn returns. Uh, I became an astrologer and I realized it also satisfied (22:34) the same things, kind of this intuitive, creative side that wasn't necessarily linear and logical.

(22:41) You know, there's no, there's no logic to art directing. You take the pictures, (22:44) you move them around. And at some point it looks right to you, but it feels right.

Right? Yeah. (22:49) What the hell does look right. I feel right.

I mean, I can't put A plus B equals C. (22:54) Yeah. That's why art's very subjective, right? Let's be honest. I mean, (22:57) you could look at the same painting in two different moods and love it in one mood and, (23:02) and absolutely despise it in another.

And it's the same, it's the same art. It's just how you (23:06) approach it. Or even for that matter, a person, a trained artist is going to see a completely (23:10) different than a person that doesn't know anything about art.

Yes, that's yep. Absolutely. (23:15) So a lot of astrologers to me is understanding how that person perceives the world.

(23:20) And, uh, sometimes telling them that they're right to perceive it the way they do. And sometimes, (23:23) well, you know, you're being a little idealistic here, a little overly, uh, overly delusional to (23:30) yourself about what certain things are. Um, but it comes in really handy and it does help.

You can (23:36) sometimes help focus people. I've, you know, look as an astrologer, nine times out of 10, people (23:41) come to me in a state of crisis because it's like things are so screwed up in my life. I got to talk (23:45) to somebody and they end up coming to an astrologer.

And usually it's even before they get to me when (23:50) I'm working on their chart the day before, it's like, Oh, I know why they're coming to me (23:54) because it's there in their chart, you know? Uh, you've heard a doctor when you have the heart (24:00) problem, not right. Why you're the whole time getting the maintenance scheduled, right? (24:04) And I do have people come and just check in. It's like, it's been a year.

What's going on (24:08) on my chart and I'll give them ideas. But, uh, and that's something too about the so-called (24:13) predicting the future, which is where we get a lot of, um, pains in our asses from people that (24:19) challenge astrology. Uh, I don't predict the future, but I do make forecasts and I look at (24:26) it this way.

Uh, the weatherman can tell you it's going to rain tomorrow and it does, but you have (24:31) to decide, are you going to go out and have a picnic anyway and get wet? Are you going to get (24:34) a tent and have a picnic under a tent? Are you going to get an umbrella? Are you going to stay (24:38) home and change your plans? That's where free will comes in. Right. It's like preparation of (24:43) how you handle the thing that's coming.

Like I can, I can look at a person's chart and maybe they're (24:48) getting some, you know, just as example, heavy Saturn transits. And I might say, you know, (24:52) this is really a year of, of self-examination and rating yourself and getting rid of the crap in your (24:58) life you don't need. It's not a fun period, but it's about cleaning house and, and stripping (25:04) yourself down and getting, being responsible.

And so whatever you do with the next year, (25:09) you might want to work with those themes. It might not be a great time to start a new business. (25:13) It might not be a great time to take a fun trip to Disneyland because you're, you're really not (25:17) going to be in that head, you know, but I also might turn to somebody and say, this is a great (25:22) time for the different transit to start a new business, try something new next year.

You should (25:26) embrace everything new, you know? So that's the kind of forecasting I'm not going to, sometimes (25:32) I have clients that go like, well, what exactly should I do? It's like, that is up to you. I, (25:36) I'll always sidestep that because I have a few clients that'll be like, so what should I do? (25:42) It's like, I don't know. I'm not you, you know, I can tell you, well, you might want to check out (25:47) this or this or this, but I'm not going to say it's, it's a, a is a guaranteed thing.

You know, (25:52) there's gotta be freedom in what you do. Yeah. Nothing's locked in stone, but there are (25:57) tendencies, you know? Yes, for sure.

You know, the, the, the joke I make about free will, (26:02) it's like free will, we always think free will, we can do whatever we want. And on one level, (26:06) that's very true. But on another level, there's, there's certain physical circumstances (26:12) that you can't easily get past.

And if you have, if you have, you have zero pitch control, (26:19) you can't be a singer. You just can't. I mean, you're, you're, you're limited, right? (26:24) I'm tone deaf and I, and I try to sing and my wife tells me to please stop.

(26:28) Well, that wasn't it. That wasn't at you. And just so you know, I want to be clear.

I'm not (26:33) attacking you, sir. I'm sure you sing beautifully. No, the cats don't even like it.

But no, but I, (26:41) it's true. And, and, you know, the, the, the parable I always use is if you're, if you end (26:45) up being only five foot, two inches tall, it's very unlikely you're going to be a world-class (26:50) professional basketball player. However, we all know, and we all know cases in our lives where (26:57) somebody just puts their head down and hammers against adversity.

And maybe if you really bust (27:03) your hump, you might be the very first world-class professional five foot two basketball player. (27:08) It's possible, but it's not easy. So that's certainly not, well, some things flow more (27:13) smoothly than others.

And, uh, he centers on, I'm talking to clients and you have no idea how (27:20) many people have issues of control, um, control issues. No, I imagine that. And I always try to (27:27) say like, you know, people always think control is like pinning something down and holding it (27:32) still and making it behave a certain way.

And the problem with that idea of control is whatever (27:36) you're pinning down is always trying to escape. Okay. And eventually it gets away from you.

And I (27:42) always use the, the analogy of a surfer. Um, they paddle out into the ocean and they wait for the (27:49) wave to come. And when the wave comes, they stand up in the board and they flow with it.

(27:54) So control to me, the ideal healthiest form of control is when you read the energy of what's (28:00) going on around you and flow with it. It makes sense. Or as Teddy Roosevelt once put it, do (28:06) whatever you can with whatever you have, wherever you are, that's control.

If you're trying, that (28:13) makes sense. The more you try to impose your belief system on top of something that really doesn't (28:17) want your stinking belief system imposed on it, the easier it'll be for you to roll with what's (28:23) there. It doesn't mean you have to deny who you are because you're still going to be being you (28:27) when you're reading the energy of the room and deciding what to do, but it's less, it's less (28:32) control and it's more, um, tuning into what's going on, you know? Yeah.

And I found that as (28:39) I've started this spiritual journey, right. I mean, when I, I remember when I came to you, (28:43) I'm, I come from a German background. We're all material, not materialistic, but we're material.

(28:48) My parents, my parents were both born in Germany in the forties. So my dad was 40, (28:52) my mom 44 during wartime, they had nothing. So having something meant a lot to them.

(28:59) So my dad's a hoarder and you know, my mom's whoever she is. But when this spirituality (29:04) piece came into my life, I had zero idea how to, I fought it because I was so used to (29:10) things you had to touch. It had to be tangible, right? Like touch, see, feel.

Uh, and this thing (29:17) is so not that it's so counterintuitive to that philosophy that I was very confused for a number (29:23) of years. And yeah, it's true. I understand that.

And, and what, one of the things I learned that (29:29) was so important to me, cause you know, I'm a Virgo is an earth sign. I know you're not a Virgo, (29:33) but a Capricorn me, I'm an earth sign and I have an earth moon. So I'm very practical (29:38) and it took me a long time to get past that myself and accept this stuff, except, you know, (29:43) I'm always results oriented.

So I'm like, well, I do the chart and it works. I don't even know (29:48) exactly how it works. Um, but I have 34 years of it working, so I'm not going to question people (29:54) go like, how can you believe that? It's like, well, you don't even know how it works.

Like, (29:58) but I know if I press this button, it works. Then, then why do I need to know necessarily? (30:03) I mean, yeah, it'd be nice so that I didn't have to fight with people all the time going, (30:06) it's just a bag of crap, you know? No, it's not, but okay. I know you believe that.

(30:10) Okay. Right. Yeah.

And that's hard too. I'm a Howe and wire Chris. Chris is a Howe and wire as (30:15) well, I think.

And that's why kind of, we started a lot of this is we're trying to delve into how (30:19) and why things work and everything. And, um, I know we have a couple of questions after you do (30:24) his reading, but please feel free to, uh, share more of your story and then we'll get into the (30:28) reading. And then, and then I know we have a couple, a couple of pieces after that.

(30:32) Well, well, you know, the thing for me, the spiritual lesson in general, not just astrology (30:38) is, uh, I'm a huge fan of the Seth material, which is a series of books channeled by Jane Roberts. (30:43) And, uh, basically in a nutshell, although it goes on for like volumes, uh, the entity Seth (30:51) says that we create our own reality all the time on every level. Uh, nothing is accidental, (30:58) but it doesn't mean where the human us is creating it all the time.

You know, there's a larger sense (31:03) of ourselves. You know, if we think of reincarnation, there's like the main, you know, (31:08) there's the main soul of Mark or the main soul of me. Uh, but there's all these branches that (31:13) reincarnate.

And so sometimes we come into this world deliberately to, to learn certain lessons. (31:18) So we create reality all the time. And, uh, one of the points Seth has made is that the physical (31:25) world is created from the dream world.

Like we have to imagine and dream things before we can (31:32) create them. So in a sense, the entire material world is a spiritual creation. And, uh, I know a (31:40) lot of, you know, a lot of times you get into deep Zen stuff and they go, all of life is an illusion.

(31:45) And, and at first our first response is no, this means something. And, uh, I always say, well, (31:51) yes, it's an illusion, but it's an illusion we all chose to create. And it's a very important illusion.

(31:57) That's why we created it. And I'm very fond of the illusion called Anthony Pico. I've been (32:02) working on this all my life, you know? So like, like actors in a play while the play is on, (32:09) you're taking it seriously because that then, then it has meaning.

And so it doesn't mean our lives (32:15) are meaningless, that all life is an illusion. Um, it does suggest that sometimes when we're (32:20) taking it insanely seriously, take a deep breath, brother, you know, uh, as, as the cartoon Pogo (32:28) once joked, uh, the car to come to Pogo, don't take life too seriously. It's not permanent.

(32:33) Okay. You know, um, and Seth even says, just to mention Seth one more time, I'm not going to (32:39) delve deep into it. Uh, anything done deadly seriously will not work.

Seth is always pointing (32:45) out as we have to have a sense of playfulness that everything we're doing, even when it's serious, (32:50) there should be a sense of play and inventiveness about what we're doing, you know? Yeah. That's a (32:55) good attitude to take. And, and believe me, I, I've struggled with that one a lot and I've gotten (33:01) better at it, but you know, I'm 66.

If this isn't something I discovered at 22, you know, uh, as I (33:07) had to run into a lot of brick walls at 90 miles an hour before it got through my head, you know? (33:12) I'm still running into those. I think, I think we all, even at my age, you know, there's, oh, (33:16) there's another, I didn't see that one. So, uh, no, it's all a process to me when we finish our (33:23) lessons, then we probably just leave.

It's like, I'll come back next time for another lesson. (33:27) I figured as long as we're still here, we're not done yet. Um, but, uh, so that's really what I, (33:34) I get a lot out of this and, and it's been tough for me cause I've had to accept the fact that I (33:38) don't know how it works.

But when I had that first reading, it was so dead on target. Um, and it (33:44) turned out she wasn't tapping my phone. So, uh, you're, oh, she wasn't Google yet or Facebook or (33:50) anywhere.

This is pre-internet baby. That's how old I am. I'm just checking if Alexa's listening (33:54) because we've, we've got a couple of questions about that.

I'm sure Alexa's listening. She's, (33:58) we know, we're going to talk about on another podcast, but we know, we know Alexa's listening. (34:06) But you know what's interesting.

You should ask her what she thinks of Jeff Bezos. Anyway, (34:11) I think she's prejudiced anyway. Uh, so that's really what I get into, you know, (34:17) when I'm doing chart reading, it's like, well, where are your strengths? Uh, where are your (34:20) problems? And usually because they're coming to me at a particular time, uh, I'll talk to them (34:25) about this particular period of time, you know, well right now, why are you feeling angsty is (34:30) because it's really time for you to like transform and grow.

And you know, growing's tough. You've (34:35) got to let go of some of the past and you're afraid of letting go of it, you know, which most (34:38) of us are. So those are the kinds of counseling you just, you'll give the, here's your chart.

(34:43) This is who you are kind of, and how you manifest it. And then here's, here's what's hammering at (34:48) you right now and why you're feeling a bit crazy or feeling a bit, and then you try to explain to (34:52) them, try to find a way to roll with this energy that is in tune with who you are and is cooperating (34:59) with what the planet is asking you to do. Now, sometimes you get a client, they come in and (35:03) everything they're doing is completely in alignment with everything going on in the chart.

(35:07) And it's, that's sort of a fun, a fun one. Cause you just pat them on the back and say, (35:10) you go ahead and do some more of that. You know? Yeah.

It sounds interesting. I don't think, (35:15) I think I'd be fighting everyone. Well, it could be, or maybe that's what you're supposed to be (35:18) doing.

You know, I don't think everybody has to have a chart reading. Of course, financially, (35:27) I'd like them to, but let's be honest, I am making money in this, but I hope so. If, (35:35) if somebody's kind of living in alignment with the universe, they don't need any of these systems.

(35:41) You don't need numerology. You don't need your palm read or a tarot card reading or astrology. (35:45) If you're kind of already in tune.

And there's not a lot of us that are (35:49) completely in tune a hundred percent of the time, but I have met people that clearly (35:53) you're a little more evolved than me. And you, things seem to flow a little easier for you (35:57) because they've been listening to whatever it is we need to listen to, you know? (36:02) I've always seen this as having the same destination and we're all either on a (36:08) direction to get there, but we're either on a different mile marker or a different road, (36:13) but we're all kind of getting there. As long as we're working towards that goal, we're good.

(36:17) And some of us are flying a jet and some of us are crawling on our hands and knees. (36:21) Yes. Some of us in reverse, by the way.

(36:23) Yeah. And some of us back up every now and then and wonder why everything is fading away. Like, (36:29) why is it going farther away? Yeah.

And, and that's, that's a key point. It is, it is a journey. (36:35) And that's, look, if I do a chart for somebody at 22, it's going to be a bit different than when I (36:39) do a chart at 66.

More often than not, when they're in their early twenties, they're kind of (36:44) like, yeah, yeah, that is me. Oh, wow. Yeah, I do do that.

By the time you get to their fifties or (36:51) sixties, it's like, yeah, I've done that. Yes, I've made that mistake. (36:56) Yeah.

Yeah. It's so nonchalantly, right? It's not like, oh my gosh. You're like, (37:00) yeah, I've done that 32 times.

(37:01) Yeah. It's not quite, cause you've had like 40 years of running that stupid brick wall, (37:05) you know? And you know where all the lumps are. It's like, yeah, I got this lump in 1947 when I, (37:10) you know, whatever it might be.

(37:12) Comparing battle scars, right? (37:14) Yeah, pretty much. And in terms of, of transits to planets, there's, there's two sets of transits. (37:22) There are transits we all get at the same time in our lives.

And then there are transits that (37:27) are unique to us. Now, what I mean by that is and I'll just use Saturn as an example, (37:33) but all the planets have the same concept. Every planet takes a certain amount of time (37:36) to go around the solar system.

Now, Saturn takes about 29 years. And when you're 29 years old, (37:43) your Saturn returns to where it was when you were born. Okay.

And we call that the Saturn return. (37:51) Now everybody gets that at 29. So, and really what, in a nutshell, without getting deep into (37:57) it, a Saturn return is really when you become a grownup.

Um, you know, Saturn represents authority (38:02) and structure. And for the first 30 years of your life, you get all your structure from your (38:06) parents, your teachers, the school, the judge, if you go that way, uh, the police, the ministers. (38:12) And then of course, your first, first decade in your twenties, your bosses and your work (38:17) environment.

And you're defining yourself by these things. You get to be around 29, Saturn (38:21) returns and you become your own authority. You're now a grownup.

And now it's, you're in charge more (38:27) than any, you're always in charge, but more than ever before. It's almost like astrology says, (38:31) puts their arm in your shoulder and says, brother, you're on your own now, you know? (38:36) So these may not be the same, but this made me think right away. There's that weird 27 suicide (38:44) age.

Is that, is that tied into that 29 year Saturn? Um, cause it's right, right before you (38:49) kind of hit adulthood. I mean, so many people, I'm just curious. I mean, if it's not, we can (38:54) certainly move forward.

There's a, there's a slight combination to it. Um, you're actually (38:59) asking about things and I'm not complaining that are very progressive in astrology. So it would (39:05) take a little more to explain, but before we get our Saturn return, there was kind of an emotional (39:09) self-confrontation at 27 or roughly.

If your entire life you've been maybe depressive and (39:18) going in the wrong direction and everything, 27 might be incredibly hard on you. Okay. And you (39:25) may decide, I would like to say erroneously because I'm not a fan of suicide.

Um, uh, (39:32) this is it. I can't take it anymore. The reason I'm not a fan of suicide is, um, and I'm not being (39:38) judgmental about this, but no, it's, it's a sad result of some things is what it is.

It's (39:43) unfortunate. Plus we all create the universe together. So you're kind of like opting out of (39:48) cooperating with the rest of the world.

You're almost saying like, I don't want to, I don't (39:52) want to play this game anymore. All of us together. And, and we lose something as a result, (39:57) you know, that particular spark is gone now, you know, to me, they're not contributing anymore, (40:02) right.

Energetically or in any way to growth of everyone. And I'm not saying this is the 27, (40:07) 28 thing, but this parts of me that still wishes Frank Zappa was around because I'm sure you have (40:12) something very interesting to say about what's going on now. Uh, I'd love to wish John Lennon (40:16) was still around.

I'm sure he'd have something very interesting to say about what's going on (40:20) now. So there's that sense of a certain amount of loss of that input from the person, you know, (40:24) and maybe that's selfish in my part, you go ahead and live in misery. I want you to stick around, (40:29) but again, they're not, I don't think they're necessarily processing it all the way through.

(40:33) And that's why they hit that brick wall and decide, you know, I think I can, I'm going to (40:38) leave now. And sometimes, sometimes it's quotes and accidental suicide, like Hendricks, uh, (40:43) his own vomit, but, but I don't think things, I'm not a big fan of accidents. So I think (40:49) it's Joplin, right? I mean, you've got Amy Winehouse drinking yourself to death, (40:53) so many, so many unfortunate, and it tends to be in the artist side.

Would that happens to (40:57) have the more energy, in my opinion, you know, than the logic, because it's the emotion and the (41:01) feel. Although they're also the people that are going to be in the papers. If Joe, the accountant (41:04) does it, it's not going to get on the front page at times.

So that's, that's, again, this is part (41:11) of that skewed perspective. It's like, you're trying to keep track of like, am I getting the (41:15) information? And I'm not, I'm not saying there's fake news, but I'm saying, (41:18) if somebody keeps going over here, over here, over here, you're going to look over there. (41:22) That's a podcast.

We, we actually talked about that. Like the, the main, Chris, (41:28) do you want to chime in on that? How many sources, how many, how many new sources do (41:31) we actually have in our world that we actually get information from? (41:34) There's five corporations that own all of the newspapers, media outlets, and I don't know. (41:42) And that's only changed in the past 30 or 40 years.

When I was a kid, when I was a kid, (41:47) you weren't even allowed to own a newspaper in the same town. You had a radio station, (41:51) you know, um, yeah, those laws were broken up in the eighties by the Reagan. And yeah, (42:00) deregulation, the deregulation.

If you had a newspaper in Chicago, you weren't supposed to (42:04) own a radio station because you were monopolized. You wanted to, we actually wanted different (42:10) opinions back then. Right now they want us to all goose step together in formation.

Okay. (42:15) That was a political anyway. Well, manipulate us.

No, that's not political. That's, that's, (42:19) that's a consciousness. Yeah.

That's a legit con that has nothing to do with left or right. (42:23) That is not political. That is how we are controlled.

Right. So we can, we can talk (42:26) about that all day. The word goose stepping does have some baggage attached to it a little bit, (42:31) however it's accurate.

Yeah. So, um, you know, so again, it's all about perspective and how you, (42:39) you, you look at things now very quickly before I look at Chris's chart, I do want to point out (42:44) there's other branches to astrology. Um, there's a branch called mundane astrology, and these are (42:50) the people that look at the world events with astrology because if everything has a beginning, (42:56) everything has a birth chart.

So corporations have an astrology chart. Countries have an (43:02) astrology chart. A wedding has an astrology chart or a marriage has an astrology chart.

(43:07) When you start a job, the moment you start that job has an astrology chart. The Catholic (43:12) diocese has an astrology chart. I'd love to delve into that one.

Cause you, you obviously (43:15) probably watched that podcast that we did. I definitely looked through some of it. Um, (43:19) everything has a start.

And you know, the thing is to think about the Catholic church is that (43:24) how many times did they have renegade Popes and stuff? I mean, how many times has the Catholic (43:28) church begun? Um, so that's part of it too. Like Italy, I think has had 27 governments since world (43:34) war two. So you'd actually put together a new chart every time they recreate Italy.

(43:39) 27. I'm just making funny that we talked about 20, (43:44) it could have been 943. I mean, they're an excitable bunch of people.

Um, very emotional (43:50) from what I hear collapsing and rebuilding every time you turn around. Um, so, but, (43:56) but as a result, you know, um, most astrologers are not surprised by 2020. (44:03) Okay.

Um, one of the things that every astrologer was talking, mundane astrologer was talking about (44:07) was, um, 2020 was going to be economic chaos, not just up and down, but people were talking (44:13) about, there was going to be economic chaos. There were a few here and there that talked (44:17) about a plague, but they weren't the majority. So I don't want to make it sound like, you know, (44:21) we are wizards that know everything.

There was clearly a lot of people talking about by March, (44:28) incidentally, they would start being economic chaos. Um, now it could have been a stock market (44:33) collapse. The astrology didn't necessarily know what would cause that, but there were (44:37) indications in the sky without blathering on for 20 more minutes that, um, we were going to have (44:43) to redefine what wealth was and, and, and there was going to be a certain amount of disruption (44:47) in the concept of what wealthy is, which certainly the minute we started quarantining, uh, as we have (44:53) witnessed, the entire world has gone a little berserk financially a little bit.

Yes. I mean, (44:59) when does oil, when does oil fall below $0? I mean, like that is just it, that was, we should (45:06) have just ended the world right there. It just doesn't make sense.

Let me pay you to fill your (45:10) gas tank. And, uh, but again, a lot of these things are artificially propped up anyway, (45:15) but again, I don't want to get, I want to stay with astrology right now. Um, so we knew there (45:20) was going to be chaos and actually just as a, and I'm not a mundane astrologer, but I do talk to (45:24) them.

Um, we're going to still, the, the, the rollercoaster is not over yet. I'm not saying (45:28) more of, I'm not predicting what is going to happen, but there's general indications that (45:33) until about December, there's going to be quite a bit of rollercoastering all over the place. (45:39) And it's an election year.

Yay. Not to get political, but Hey, yeah, exactly. (45:43) Stop saying not to get political.

Well, we're not both of you. Both of you get one demerit. Okay.

(45:50) Chris hates us, by the way, Anthony, I mean, he likes you, I think, but he, I don't think (45:54) he cares for me very late. I hate him already. I saw his chart anyway.

No, that's right. Everybody (45:59) hates me. Anthony doesn't like bald guys.

I knew it. Uh, I, Hey, I'm, I'm working my way towards (46:05) that. So I'll be joining them.

Um, but, uh, no, there's, there's certainly things going on, but, (46:11) but I, it looks like things will be changing a bit by December-ish. It doesn't mean it's just (46:16) going to be easy because clearly everything that's happened this year will have echoing effects for (46:22) years, you know, decades probably. And on one level, I mean, I don't mean to sound like a (46:29) morbid here, but there's something that I'm kind of excited about this because one of the things (46:34) that this crisis is doing is it's showing all the cracks in our system.

Yes. And, uh, (46:39) I look at it like this, like tarot, the death card isn't the death isn't death. It's a rebirth, (46:43) right? It's the B it could be the beginning of some new philosophy or some new direction that we (46:48) go as a human race, right? Exactly.

For the betterment of all, hopefully. Uh, right. Absolutely.

(46:56) So I don't know if we're going to do that, but maybe that there's a potential for that. (47:01) And I do want to mention one other thing briefly, America's birth chart. Uh, I'd like to point out (47:05) that America is a cancer.

And I mean, that is a sign. Let's not get, let's not get political here. (47:10) Um, two demerits.

That's not ironic at all. That America's sign is cancer. (47:16) Is the moon child.

And, um, well, what's interesting is that cancer is a sign, um, (47:24) stereotype says mother, but really it's a nurturing sign. Cancer is about your home. (47:29) And, uh, it is a certain amount of tradition and sentimentality about it.

And cancer demands a (47:34) certain amount of loyalty. I think we had a cancerian print president W say, either you're (47:40) with us or you're against us. You can't be more cancerian than that.

Oh, and cancer is about (47:45) making your home. Sure. Give us your poor.

You're tired. You're hungry. Our entire country has been (47:50) founded and come here and make your home.

If you're not happy where you are. So what? Well, (47:57) you know what? The same thing was happening in the 18 fifties. They didn't want to have the (48:00) Chinese and they didn't want to have the Italians.

They didn't want to have the Irish. (48:02) They kept coming anyway. And now the new wave, the new wave is the ones that are always at the (48:07) bottom of the rung, you know, their way up and they turn around and step in the ones behind them.

(48:12) For some reason, how many second generation Americans don't want immigrants in your life? (48:18) You're one, you're one family removed from not being here yourself, sir. Or ma'am not to get (48:23) political. Yeah.

That's not political, man. Come on. You get a demerit, sir.

Oh, one demerit to (48:29) Christopher. And look, we've all seen those memes of people going, oh, you don't like immigrants, (48:34) huh? And it's a picture of a native American, you know, which I don't even have to mention briefly (48:40) that we inspired Hitler. He thought what we do with the native Americans was so impressive (48:45) that he decided to incorporate it into his plans.

So we inspired. Thank you, America. Yeah.

God (48:51) bless us. But America, we, we, we raped this country. Let's not the land itself and the (48:56) people like we know this.

I don't think any of us believe, believe otherwise. So, you know, (49:01) white people tend to be a little overbearing. Um, are we talking about astrology still? Yes.

(49:08) So, uh, what is this about again? Yeah, it's, this is the lost right now. (49:14) Cancer, sir. Oh, America is a cancer.

And yes, uh, uh, mundane astrology is about the politics (49:21) in the world too. And, uh, um, every country has a chart. And the thing about America is that, uh, (49:27) and this is a very long-term thing.

Pluto takes 250 years to go all the way around the solar system (49:34) and return. Well, guess how old America is. 250 years, 240 blah, blah, blah.

Yeah. We're (49:41) basically getting our Pluto return. Pluto is about rebirth.

But Pluto's not a planet, Anthony, (49:46) come on. You should know this by now. No, I'm just kidding.

Well, you know what? Your mother said (49:50) Pluto was big enough. Anyway, always be a planet to me, sir. I'm of that.

I'm of the same. I would (49:56) like to point out by the way, uh, some of the erroneous information, Pluto was voted not to be (50:01) a planet on the last day of a conference of astronomers. When basically 80% of the people (50:07) left in the 20 people hanging out at the end said, let's make Pluto not a planet.

So it's not even (50:12) agreed with on top of it. Um, there is astronomers. This is astrology.

Pluto is a planet. (50:17) Okay. We call the moon a planet too.

And the sun a planet too. It's just the way we use the (50:22) terminology. I was just kidding.

We agree. Pluto is a planet. I agree.

Thank you. As a matter of (50:29) fact, I'm going to remove a demerit from either of you because we all agree that Pluto is a planet. (50:34) Thank God I'm back to zero.

You're a zero. We're negative one apparently or one demerit. (50:40) So a Pluto return.

Pluto is about rebirth. It's about transformation. It's about death and (50:45) rebirth like the tarot card.

And, um, at its deepest level, Pluto can be like the, uh, the (50:52) Phoenix rising out of its own ashes. So actually right now, America is in the process of being (50:58) reborn. And I think what's going on around us is labor pains.

Okay. Uh, and we're going to see (51:04) what America is going to be reborn as over the next year or two. So 2026 is official, right? 250.

(51:10) I'm trying to do the math. Yeah. I mean, we're right there.

We're on the cusp. Yeah. Yeah.

We're, (51:17) we're in the, in the ballpark. It's, it's beginning to have a certain amount of effect and (51:20) astrologers argue because some people say July 4th, 1776, the birth of America. Some people argue (51:26) for different dates.

Look, one thing I will tell you about astrologers, ask five astrologers a (51:31) question and you'll get at least 10 answers. Okay. We are constantly quibbling with each (51:36) other about your bipolar.

Apparently some of us are. Yeah. Uh, I'm not, I'm not, but my other self (51:44) is, um, but, uh, so other branches of astrology, um, there's something called, well, there's (51:51) medical astrology, which focuses primarily on medical issues in the chart and a good medical (51:56) astrology usually has a pretty good medical knowledge in general.

So they're not anti (52:00) science, but they look at the spiritual and astrological reasons of what's going on. (52:05) And, uh, I do know one of my medical astrologer friends actually works with a few doctors. (52:10) When they're stopped, they'll go like, what's going on in this patient's chart.

Of course, (52:14) doctors don't like to talk about that, but sometimes they do do that. Uh, there's another (52:18) branch of astrology called or area astrology, which is spelled with an H or area. Um, that's (52:24) probably the freakiest part of astrology.

It's basically fortune telling like tarot card readings, (52:29) uh, an or area astrologer, what you do is you go up to them and go, (52:33) well, I get the job. I just, uh, I just had an interview with, and what the or area astrology (52:38) will do, we'll set up a chart for the moment. The question is asked and then read the chart (52:43) based on what, what is applying the moment the question is asked.

And, uh, I've found again, (52:50) it, it works pretty well. Although of course, you know, I have, you have to be specialized to (52:56) or area is a slightly different system than natal. Um, they have slightly different rules (53:01) because it's not the same as natal.

You're actually, you know, one planet will represent (53:04) the person asking the question. One represents the astrologer. One, one represents the problem, (53:09) you know, so it's a little different handle differently.

So those are all different branches (53:14) of astrology. And, uh, something I want to mention, which, um, I'm sure you're going to (53:19) ask me about, uh, there are two schools of astrology. There is tropical astrology, (53:25) which is what's in most of the Western newspapers.

And there's something called (53:30) Sidereal astrology, sometimes referred to in India as Vedic V E D I C astrology. (53:36) And I only know Vedic from Star Trek. I remember hearing Vedic in like, uh, (53:40) Bajorans or something.

I think, I think you're talking about the Klingons. You're very confused (53:45) here. Um, now this is where people, um, when astrology was first codified like 5,000 some (53:58) odd goddamn years ago, uh, the constellations were in the same place as the dates.

Okay. (54:05) So when we talked about the beginning of Aries in 3000 BC, the constellation Aries was at the (54:16) beginning of spring and all the constellations lined up with the dates in astrology. Um, (54:23) however, there's something called the procession of the equinoxes.

Uh, it's the wobble of the earth, (54:29) the earth wobbles, and over the years, the stars have actually moved. Okay. (54:35) Right.

And I was going to ask that. So thank you for bringing this up. (54:38) That's okay.

Cause this is something that a lot of people use to point and say, Oh, astrology sucks. (54:42) Um, now we also, by the way, use the wobble of the earth to measure off the ages of astrology. (54:48) Cause it takes about 24,000 years for the earth to completely wobble.

(54:53) Yeah. 72 years per degree, I believe. (54:56) Roughly.

So what, and each of the ages of astrology lasts around 2000 years. So when, (55:03) you know, we heard from the sixties of this is the dawning of the age of Aquarius. Well, (55:08) roughly yes.

Aquarius age of Aquarius started sometime in the last a hundred years or so. (55:13) So we're at the beginning of the age of Aquarius. Uh, we just finished the age of Pisces for 2000 (55:18) years, which started curiously enough around the time of the rise of the Christ story.

(55:23) And I've heard that the fish is due to that. The analogy of the fish is due to the (55:29) the house of Pisces. And Pisces in general is really, it's the empathetic sign that includes (55:34) everybody.

And then you have a, uh, a religious figure that comes up and said, God loves everyone. (55:40) I love you all. I'll take care of you.

It's very Pisces kind of a thing. Um, (55:44) we're switching to Aquarius now because it's a little different. So, but anyway, (55:48) going all the way back to this, to two schools of astrology.

So, um, (55:54) tropical astrology has sticked with the dates and the seasons. Um, so even though when the (56:02) beginning of spring comes, it's actually in the sky, this, the constellation of Pisces is there, (56:08) um, tropical astrology ties the signs to the seasons. So Aries starts spring, (56:14) Cancer starts summer, Libra starts fall, and Capricorn starts winter.

Um, and there can be, (56:21) and I can go on for a half an hour on this and I won't, um, but there, you can actually tie (56:26) in the qualities of the seasons with the symbolism of each sign. Okay. Uh, Vedic astrology continues (56:33) to follow or sidereal, it actually means star-based.

Sidereal astrology follows the stars. (56:39) And, uh, so if I was a Capricorn now, if I went to an Indian astrology, they would consider me a, (56:45) a Sagittarius. Um, and they would read the chart a little differently.

Although curiously enough, (56:50) I've had sidereal readings and I've had tropical readings and they define the same person. (56:55) So however the techniques are that the Vedic astrologers are using them, they're still (57:00) working. And Vedic astrology is so traditional.

They don't include anything after Saturn. (57:05) They say if it's been discovered after that, we don't care. Now, a tropical astrology and, (57:11) and I believe that we discover, and this is a philosophical thing.

We discover the newer (57:16) planets as we, uh, as we evolve as society and culture. So Uranus, the planet of freedom and (57:24) individual rights turns up when the beginning of the American revolution, the French revolution, (57:28) when suddenly people didn't want to have Kings anymore, they wanted to rule themselves (57:31) and human rights mattered. And that's when her straw, that's when Uranus turned up (57:35) and you can tie Neptune and Pluto and other stuff, the same thing.

Again, I, (57:39) I don't want to turn this into a textbook on astrology, but I just want to give you (57:41) the ideas and the concept. Absolutely. Yeah.

Thank you for that. So, uh, so there (57:46) were all these different branches. I specialize in individual personal astrology.