Jason & Mark welcome @iam4iamWe (X) for a conversation about Intellectual Property (I.P.) and the week’s events.
Meet iam4iam—husband, father, grandfather, and the only child who
somehow ended up with brothers (don’t ask, it’s a long story about how I
grew-up quickly).
Once a Mormon missionary preaching in Japan, now an agnostic-theist who’s
still waiting for the divine to RSVP.
He is an Agorist with a capital ‘A,’ wielding the Non-Aggression Principle like
a samurai sword and dreaming of a world where voluntarism isn’t just a
buzzword.
He has climbed corporate ladders at a three-letter giant. He has told CEO’s
their companies were worth more as scrap metal than going concerns. Sadly,
he was the guy that decided should a company continue or be shutdown,
knowing real people would lose their jobs.
A retired entrepreneur, iam4iam says he has a stain on his soul from a brief
lobbying gig—spoiler: the State’s corruption is deeper than a politician’s
pockets. He has since divorced himself from the system and pledged
allegiance to liberty.
His KOLBE score calls him a Quick Start who somehow is also a Researcher.
Meyers-Briggs says he is an ENTP (or ENTJ on a good day), a quick-witted
visionary who’s been called ‘evergreen young’ and can’t resist shiny new
tech like Blockchain.
He has counseled Crypto projects, fixed broken businesses, and now tinker
with DAOs in his ‘retirement.’
As a political and Geo-political junky, he enjoys real dialogue. This is
especially true when they are conversations that include physics to theology,
or Geo-politics with a sprinkle of economics. Good conversations about
conspiracies and even the supernatural catches his attention.
He says, good conversations usually start with the wild, the weird, and the
‘why not?’
Oh, and if he is not talking about REAL Economic and Political Solutions, then
it’s because he is attending to his other duties as the First in the World,
elected Emperor of a DAO.
We suspect they will put on his tombstone someday, “Buried here is the
bona fide, unanimously elected, first in the World, Emperor of a DAO, and
the Emperor of the DENDAO or Den.Social.Show less
Transcript:
(0:00) Coming on a little. (0:31) Welcome, welcome, welcome everyone. (0:33) I don’t know.(0:34) Did you guys hear the theme? (0:36) Oh yeah. (0:39) First of all, welcome to another episode. (0:42) This is a special episode of If By Whiskey.(0:45) This one is If By Intellectual Property. (0:48) We’ve got Jason down here. (0:50) Now, you just saw that intro, everybody.(0:52) Jason has been working on that intro (0:55) and he’s been tweaking a little bits here and there. (0:57) I think we’re almost in. (0:58) Are we locked in? (1:00) I think we’re locked in.(1:01) Almost there. (1:01) Almost there. (1:02) I feel like there’s going to be a few more tweaks, but it’s 99%.(1:06) Feel like it’s there. (1:07) And we got an outro to put to task you with too. (1:10) So, okay.(1:11) Now, today we have a special guest because we don’t have many. (1:14) We haven’t had an If By Whiskey guest yet. (1:16) So this is our first If By Whiskey guest.(1:18) This gentleman right here. (1:19) This gentleman, crypto king and queen. (1:22) I am, for I am, we on X. (1:27) Welcome, I am.(1:28) Thank you. (1:29) Thank you, gentlemen. (1:32) I’m glad and honored to be here.(1:34) And this whole conversation about IP is going to be interesting (1:37) because it’s been rolling around in my head for months (1:41) and wondering how that would all play out in an agorist world. (1:47) And I’ve kind of come to a conclusion. (1:50) I hope I can articulate it tonight on my viewpoints and how I got there.(1:54) But it’s going to be good. (1:56) It’s going to be good. (1:57) But again, my deep gratitude for and honor to be here tonight.(2:03) And be your first on the whiskey. (2:06) Wow. (2:07) And I wish I had whiskey in this cup, but I don’t.(2:11) I need to add some. (2:13) So Jason, how are you doing, man? (2:15) How’s it going down there? (2:17) I’m doing well. (2:18) It’s been a very busy week for me.(2:20) And so I’m sorry I just came in a few minutes before the before we started here. (2:25) Didn’t get much of a chance to catch up, but maybe that’ll be good. (2:29) It’ll be a surprise.(2:30) We’ll get to meet Will here and and have a good time. (2:36) Exactly. (2:36) And this is a great thing.(2:37) So my first thoughts is we’ll just get a little bit to know who you are, William. (2:42) And then we’re going to jump into then I have to do it because (2:47) Joe Rogan just allowed Douglas Murray and Dave Smith to talk to each other. (2:52) And we’ve all got words.(2:54) We all got thoughts about it. (2:55) So, William, welcome. (2:58) Tell us a little bit about this crypto stuff.(3:00) I’ve heard of this stuff. (3:01) I’m a physical guy. (3:03) I like brass and lead and silver and gold.(3:07) Those are my four precious metals. (3:09) Oh, yeah. (3:09) I’ve heard of these ones and zeros.(3:11) I like the gold and the silver to a little bit more partial to silver. (3:15) I even like copper and brass, of course, and lead. (3:23) Well, let me say this, that the whole idea or concept of number go up has kind of captured (3:29) the concepts of blockchain and blockchain is I’m just going to keep it simple is basically (3:37) a database that was essentially created by who we don’t know, Satoshi Nakamoto, who created (3:44) Bitcoin that sits in a on a blockchain database.(3:48) And what makes it special is that this blockchain, once a block is written or created, it can’t (3:56) be altered or changed or destroyed. (3:59) And in the next one is created, and it just works one block on top of another block on (4:03) top of another block. (4:05) So unlike, let’s say, a centralized database, someone could go in there and alter things (4:10) or change things, you know, go in there and (4:12) Yeah, he can change the number of days that he took off, right? (4:16) He can change grades, right? (4:18) He went in the school system.(4:22) And so really, when you think of blockchain, it’s just a different database that has a (4:28) different context, a different way of use, different use case. (4:32) And one of them is to eliminate third parties. (4:35) And that’s the big point, too.(4:38) So one, you can’t change the data. (4:40) So think if your history was recorded on a blockchain, and then your country is conquered, (4:46) that data, you know, how they always say that the conqueror, you know, destroys the old (4:51) data that rewrites the history, right? (4:53) Well, blockchain would be able to be plugged in, and then you would have that history would (4:58) be protected. (4:59) So forget the whole idea of Bitcoin and that kind of thing and chasing, you know, to make (5:05) money or a quick buck.(5:07) That’s one aspect of it. (5:09) But in my viewpoint is it’s much broader and bigger use case. (5:15) And rewriting history is kind of the Norm Macdonald joke, right? (5:18) It’s like, yeah, look at this history book.(5:20) Like, hey, we want all these things. (5:22) Ah, look, that’s kind of funny. (5:23) We knew what we were doing.(5:24) Yeah. (5:25) So that’s really, I guess, a little bit of it in a nutshell. (5:29) So it spurred this massive industry, which a lot of people focused on the idea that it’s (5:37) decentralized, meaning that the miners or how you write to these blocks is spread out (5:44) around the world.(5:45) So it’s borderless. (5:47) There are no borders. (5:49) So then the question is, well, then who, which, you know, legal jurisdiction does it fall (5:54) under? (5:54) Well, it really doesn’t because it’s borderless.(5:58) And just because one group or one country tries to block access to it doesn’t mean that (6:05) people still couldn’t access it. (6:08) And it also means that how can you legislate it? (6:14) For example, oh, sorry, go ahead, Jason. (6:16) I think if you ask the U.S. (6:17) government, they will tell you very clearly who is in charge of it.(6:21) That’s true. (6:22) That’s true. (6:23) Or which blockchain? (6:24) But then there’s all kinds of blockchains.(6:26) But it was to prevent the idea of double spending. (6:30) And but the real thing that I like is it eliminates a third party in between you and another (6:38) person. (6:39) So if we were to meet on the street and I handed you cash, right, more than likely, people (6:44) aren’t going to know where I received the cash or who it’s going to.(6:49) Well, blockchain or crypto, as it’s all like, you know, you know, is the idea behind that. (6:57) In other words, there is no third party. (6:59) Right now, if your money is spent digitally, you know, debit card or whatever, it’s going (7:04) through third parties between that transaction.(7:08) And so the idea was that now we can have sound money and we can do this in a manner that (7:14) does not require a third party, i.e. (7:17) the government and sound money being, you know, maybe a limited amount, kind of like (7:22) gold or silver or but it is all digital. (7:27) And so there are the gold bugs that certainly don’t like it. (7:31) There are gold bugs that are warming up to it or silver bugs, whatever.(7:34) And there are those that will switch between the two. (7:38) And there’s different types. (7:39) There’s a kind that would be cheap to interact with or spend.(7:44) And then there’s the kind that are more like Bitcoin now is called digital gold because (7:50) it has a limited quantity and you’re more, more, more likely to hold it rather than use (7:57) it on a spending case. (7:59) But blockchain, that’s that’s the spending side of it. (8:02) The other side, like I was explaining, like history, where so many there’s countless use (8:06) cases for blockchain technology that can solve real world problems because the other part (8:12) of it is might want to be transparent.(8:15) So let’s say it was your I don’t know, your local government or school board, and they (8:20) want all the expenditures were on a blockchain. (8:23) Remember, it couldn’t be altered or changed, but they would be transparent for everyone (8:27) to see. (8:28) And that’s that makes it a beautiful fit to fix, you know, corruption, you know, because (8:35) we always talk about what government needs to be more transparent.(8:38) Well, there you go. (8:39) Blockchain can can help with that. (8:41) Blockchain voting.(8:43) Again, you can’t alter or change a vote. (8:46) You couldn’t delete a vote. (8:47) And everyone would be able to see all of the votes.(8:51) And you wouldn’t know whose vote was whose. (8:54) Imagine if it was like a serial number. (8:56) So Mark, you had a serial number.(8:57) Jason had one. (8:58) I had one. (8:59) We would be able to look up and see our security number.(9:03) Like if we had a number that secured our social like, well, yeah, yeah, something like that. (9:07) Sure. (9:07) Then you would be able to see everyone’s votes and you’d be able to quickly you would know (9:11) instantly who voted or how many votes were for which proposal or bond measure or for (9:18) which candidate or which party or whatever.(9:21) And you would be able to see it instantaneously while the polls were open and after the polls (9:25) were closed. (9:26) And again, the vote couldn’t be altered, changed or deleted. (9:31) So that is another brilliant use case for blockchain technology.(9:36) And that’s why I like it from an agro perspective, because I believe in counter economics and I (9:44) believe in solving some of our problems with the use of blockchain. (9:48) So I’m trying to keep it simple here, not get too technical and deep. (9:52) And that’s the that’s the general overview and concepts of what it’s attracted to me.(10:00) I’m old. (10:02) I’m 61 years old, and I’ve always gravitated towards new technology and and always looked (10:11) for technology to be a solution. (10:14) And I was an executive level management with big companies and traveled around the U.S. (10:20) and some different countries as well.(10:23) And I was always that kind of early adapter to things within certain budgets. (10:29) But I also had the TV behind me. (10:32) This one cost me like four grand.(10:34) So I’m a very familiar early adopter guy. (10:37) Yeah, there you go. (10:38) There you go.(10:38) Yeah, I bought it like 20 years ago, but it was like four grand. (10:42) Yeah, right, right. (10:44) Would have been better to get into Bitcoin early instead of no kidding.(10:47) I’m like, I can’t afford a three hundred dollar Bitcoin. (10:50) Let me go buy a thirty six hundred dollar Samsung television. (10:53) That’s that sounds like my money.(10:56) So that’s a good idea. (10:59) I’m very disappointed. (11:00) I didn’t pay attention to it earlier.(11:02) I had heard of it back when it was like a hundred dollars. (11:04) And I was just like, oh, that’s dumb. (11:06) But I like I hadn’t ever been into the political side where I realized that why the decentralization (11:11) was such a good thing and all that.(11:13) So, man, I really wish I had got in earlier. (11:17) I can tell you my story, how I heard about it. (11:20) So I was trying to save a company.(11:22) That’s what I would often do. (11:24) I would get brought in to help save a company and evaluate it, take a look at the financials (11:31) and and say, is it worth saving or not? (11:33) And go back to the owners and and report it’s worth saving or no, you’re better off selling (11:39) it and save your your ass because you’re going to even lose more, which is an ugly position (11:44) to be because you’re deciding by numbers and not by feelings. (11:49) But it is what it is.(11:51) The company is going to fail anyway. (11:54) So, you know, but there were times that I was asked to go in and help try to preserve (12:00) and protect the jobs and and salvage the company, make changes operationally or personnel wise. (12:08) And so anyway, here we had this room, the server room, and we had servers that were (12:14) now sitting idle and not doing anything.(12:17) And one of my managers came to me and says, boss, boss, boss, you know what we should (12:20) do? (12:20) We should go mine Bitcoin. (12:22) I go mine Bitcoin. (12:23) What is Bitcoin? (12:25) He goes, well, here, I’ll walk over to my desk and walk over there and we’re looking (12:30) at he pulled it up like something on Reddit or something.(12:33) He’s explained to me, I goes, wow, this is great. (12:36) This is cool. (12:37) But I had so many irons in the fire.(12:39) I says, well, let’s come back to this. (12:41) You know, weeks had gone by, but I was attracted to it. (12:44) So I had watched it go from like thirty dollars over a hundred.(12:48) And we had this equipment just sitting there, probably could have been mining it. (12:53) And then by the time I got around to looking at it, mining at Mt. (12:56) Gox had happened.(12:57) And I had already talked to everybody, says this is going to be how money is. (13:00) This is real money. (13:01) This is going to become real money.(13:03) And it was like, nah, nah, William, that’s a joke. (13:06) But anyway, so I didn’t get until, you know, right around 350 bucks much later. (13:14) And, you know, it’s the woulda shoulda coulda kind of thing since I had watched it break (13:19) a hundred and come back down to 30 and go back up.(13:22) And, you know, I could have been that early. (13:25) So I was in at three and I remember not. (13:28) I remember seeing it and going, I should get, you know, I just didn’t have that extra to (13:32) get in, but never had never had it right when you need it.(13:34) And then when it went up, I couldn’t afford it when it went up. (13:36) And then when it went up, I couldn’t. (13:38) Sure.(13:38) You just got to dive in. (13:39) It’s funny because we’ve got a Freedom Fest coming up. (13:43) I think it’s June 11th to the 14th or 15th.(13:46) All right. (13:47) Valerie Durham shared a story where she went to a Freedom Fest years ago. (13:51) She she’s the CEO, I think, of Freedom Fest, if I remember exactly her title.(13:56) But basically, she and Mark Skousen and Haley and everybody and somebody paid 12 (14:01) Bitcoin for a Dr. Pepper. (14:04) And you just go, someone spent one point two million dollars on a Dr. Pepper. (14:08) Right.(14:09) Good. (14:10) It’s pretty crazy. (14:12) There’s countless stories like that.(14:13) But again, like I said, I think the bigger picture is gotten lost in chasing the dollars (14:18) or the quick, the quick return. (14:21) You know, money go up scenario. (14:23) Shitcoin, right? (14:24) But beans and all that.(14:26) And maybe it’s on purpose, you know, to kind of divert our attention to how Blockchain could (14:32) solve some real world problems and actually eliminate most of government. (14:37) And I think that’s, you know, maybe I can see. (14:41) I can see shitcoin being both the Wall Street, like like pirate people who just do the pump (14:46) and dumps.(14:47) I could also see it as a government sign up. (14:49) So that’s like, no, we got to put regulations in. (14:52) We got to.(14:53) I mean, you don’t think SBF was not donating tens of millions of dollars to both sides, (15:00) both parties. (15:01) It was him donating the one side and his vice president donating the Republicans. (15:05) They were doing that to get their words in the regulations.(15:09) Right. (15:09) Like this is exactly why. (15:11) Because they’re trying to centralize.(15:12) They’re trying to corral the cats. (15:14) They’re trying to wrangle the cats. (15:15) Right.(15:16) Yeah, SBF is. (15:18) And let me let me matter of fact, we mentioned this today in the World Blockchain Roundtable (15:23) podcast. (15:25) SBF is not Blockchain.(15:27) SBF did not represent the capabilities and technology of Blockchain because he was managing (15:33) a centralized exchange, meaning he was in control of all the money. (15:38) And that’s exactly the opposite of what Satoshi had envisioned or what Blockchain can do. (15:44) It’s supposed to be decentralized.(15:45) So you don’t have that third party in control. (15:50) Just like, say, a YouTube or or, you know, meta or wherever is that it’s a central party (15:57) that’s controlling, you know, a political narrative. (16:00) And they’re shadow banning some and some they’re censoring and blocking or canceling others (16:07) there.(16:08) They want you to look over here. (16:09) So they kind of heard the people that way and make that trending because it’s a political (16:14) decision or a narrative that they believe in. (16:17) It’s a central group.(16:19) SBF is the same way. (16:20) It was centrally controlling money and it was actually a money laundering scheme through (16:28) Ukraine back to the U.S. and mostly to the Democratic Party. (16:32) There were Republicans as well.(16:34) Same bird, you know, two different. (16:37) Take off that tinfoil hat right now, William. (16:39) You get that foil off.(16:41) You get we don’t we don’t talk conspiracies on this show. (16:46) We’re talking about that’s all we do. (16:49) Go to your go to your corner, sir.(16:51) You have a time out. (16:52) All right. (16:53) Wait, wait, wait.(16:53) Time out. (16:54) Time out. (16:54) OK.(16:55) All right. (16:55) All right. (16:55) You’re onto me.(16:56) I’m a fan. (16:57) I’m a fan. (16:58) You get the appropriate experts to weigh in on this.(17:01) Do we need to have some fact checkers pulled in here? (17:03) Yes, yes. (17:04) We’re going to be fact checkers, everybody. (17:06) So welcome, everybody.(17:08) We’ve got a bunch of people on. (17:09) We’ve got an if by whiskey. (17:11) Today, we’re going to talk if by intellectual property.(17:14) So we’re getting, you know, William, we just talked crypto. (17:17) We talked blockchain. (17:17) Now that’s all decentralized.(17:19) Well, guess what? (17:20) Ideas are decentralized, too. (17:23) Everybody gets them somehow. (17:25) However, we get them there.(17:26) We get them right. (17:27) All throughout the day. (17:28) Sometimes people get the same idea at the same time.(17:30) It’s pretty crazy. (17:32) Sometimes people call each other at the same time. (17:34) Sometimes people writing a letter to each other the same time.(17:37) Mark Twain called it mental tele tele telegraphy. (17:42) I think he called it like someone like writes a letter to someone on May 4th. (17:46) And two weeks later, they get a letter from someone, that person they wrote on May 4th, (17:50) like crazy stuff like that.(17:52) Like, it’s crazy. (17:53) OK, so these ideas are all decentralized. (17:56) So if you’re living in 2025, you might recognize emailing past each other.(18:01) You got to send an email exactly the same time. (18:04) And then you’re like, oh, I didn’t see your email. (18:05) And then it keeps going back and forth.(18:07) Yeah, we’re all weirdly connected in this weird way. (18:11) But libertarians have physical property, believe in physical property rights. (18:16) OK, and but we hate regulations.(18:18) We hate permits. (18:19) We hate taxes. (18:21) We hate decentralization.(18:22) It’s like our stuff. (18:23) So coming out of blockchain, we talk decentralized. (18:27) We, Jason and I, Jason had Matthew Sands on.(18:31) And Jason, do you want to share a little bit about your conversation with him? (18:35) Because, man, I watched that just yesterday, just to refresh. (18:37) And it was awesome. (18:39) Yeah, I’m not sure if a lot of people know who he is, but he’s a British guy.(18:43) He has this thing he calls the Nations of Sanity Project. (18:47) And basically, he’s trying to advocate for people to commit on a one by one basis, (18:53) a voluntary basis to the non-aggression principle. (18:56) And basically, he also kind of has shifted that into a little bit more about (19:01) self-ownership, to be more specific.(19:04) But basically, the agreement says that you own yourself and no one else is responsible for you. (19:12) We don’t have we have law in the way that if you violate the non-aggression principle, (19:17) you aggress against somebody, their property, their physical property or themselves, (19:22) their persons, that would be considered a crime. (19:26) And it gets really complicated, I guess, in an agorist or anarchist system, (19:31) how that would be dealt with.(19:33) But what we got into was intellectual property. (19:37) So intellectual property, he said, is not really property. (19:43) He said it’s kind of a mistake to think of it as property.(19:47) So you have ideas, right? (19:48) And somebody could copy your idea, but that is not really stealing from you. (19:53) And so I think that’s kind of the basis of where you got thrown a little bit (19:58) and you started thinking about it and you’re like, wait a second. (20:00) And you tried to poke holes and maybe you did.(20:03) Maybe there’s some good ones that we can talk about. (20:05) But it’s a very, very interesting. (20:07) I don’t even know if I’m 100 percent there.(20:10) I’m maybe 90 percent. (20:11) But there’s a lot of interesting stuff to talk about. (20:15) I don’t I’m not there.(20:16) I don’t I have opinions. (20:18) I just don’t have an opinion right now, if that makes sense. (20:22) Right.(20:23) But I will say watching Matthew just talk about like copying your car, though, (20:27) like the first the first one that came to me was like, well, what if someone just put (20:31) out the copy of someone’s book who was selling it and that would hurt them? (20:34) And it’s like the first top one. (20:37) Maybe that’s the easiest to debunk. (20:39) Should we start with maybe like someone writes a book because he talked about like no one’s (20:43) stealing your car.(20:44) Well, it’s like like taking a copy of your car. (20:46) Well, a copy of a book would be like a copy of a car. (20:49) I’m wondering if that book is a harder one.(20:52) Yeah, a car. (20:53) The car is an easy example. (20:55) I’ll take the quick.(20:58) Yeah, totally. (21:01) OK, there’s this site. (21:02) Well, let me go back again.(21:05) We’re talking like if it was if the information is distributed in such a manner, it’s decentralized (21:09) and anyone can access it for essentially for free. (21:14) That’s just like open software where then anyone can build on that software. (21:20) So the idea that a lot of people like the concept of open software is because developers (21:27) often use other people’s code as a fit or fix as they’re building.(21:33) And if all this different code becomes intellectual property or information you get out of a book, (21:41) the same kind of thing. (21:42) Well, wait a minute now. (21:43) Now you plagiarize me or you copyright me.(21:45) You didn’t cite me or this kind of thing. (21:47) So the concept or the idea that if the book is open for everybody to read, then everybody (21:55) can share either the joy of the fiction or the excitement of the plot or or maybe the (22:02) technical knowledge and advanced society. (22:06) And when you go back to the early history, I think what like 1710 was the idea of intellectual (22:13) property kind of started rearing its head legally.(22:15) And it was became like kind of the king’s property in England. (22:19) Well, in crypto world and open source technology, this is where I kind of how I changed because (22:28) I was like, no, we got to protect patents. (22:30) We got to protect trademarks and everything else under that same sun, because, well, people (22:36) have invested a lot of money.(22:37) They got to make their money back. (22:38) Otherwise, we’re going to stifle innovation. (22:41) And I had to rethink it when I started thinking about how open software works.(22:45) So open software is just like an open book. (22:48) And imagine if there wasn’t a paywall to all these scientific papers. (22:52) Same kind of thing as a book, right? (22:54) These scientific papers might be without a paywall.(22:57) Then just about anybody can read them and gather that information, and maybe they’ll (23:03) understand it. (23:03) I wouldn’t understand most of them. (23:06) And come up with another idea or theory.(23:09) And I think it will catapult and grow it much faster. (23:13) And that’s what I’ve seen with blockchain or open source technology. (23:17) The World Wide Web is that.(23:19) The World Wide Web is just that, you know. (23:22) Jason, you have a thought on that? (23:23) And then I’ll kind of reel back a little bit, because I think I got a little ahead of myself (23:26) on that one. (23:26) That’s a big question to tackle.(23:28) Yeah, the book is actually a harder one. (23:30) The car one’s pretty easy, because if you copy, you know, print out a car that’s exactly (23:34) the same as someone else’s car, you have not hurt them at all. (23:37) That’s pretty simple, I think.(23:39) But if you, you know, take some- (23:41) But some manufacturer of the car company might beg to differ, because they’re the one who (23:45) actually sold the car for profit in the first place, right? (23:48) In a weird way. (23:48) And I guess we talked about that. (23:50) So, all right, let’s reel back.(23:52) Let’s reel back real simply, right? (23:54) Intellectual property, what is it? (23:55) Now, it is this weird coined phrase we talk about. (23:59) Are there more than the four kinds that I’ve come across? (24:02) Patents, copyrights, trademarks, and trade secrets? (24:06) Yeah, I think that’s it. (24:07) I think that’s it, yeah.(24:08) So, does anybody want to share, like, you want to take copyrights or trademark or something, (24:13) Jason, share what one of those might mean? (24:16) Well, just to add on to what Will said, William said, on the book thing, relating to open (24:22) software, like, if you’re writing a book, a lot of people do it just to get an idea (24:27) out there. (24:28) And if that’s your goal, then if people copy it and share it, that’s great. (24:31) You’ve spread your idea.(24:32) If people are doing it to make money, that’s kind of a different story. (24:36) That’s where it gets a little more difficult, because you say, okay, I’m going to deal with (24:40) this book. (24:40) I’m nobody, so I have no reach.(24:42) I have no way to get this out there. (24:45) No publisher wants to work with me, because I’m no one. (24:48) But I’ll put it out on the internet.(24:49) And then some bigger author comes along, steals it, maybe makes a few tweaks or something, (24:55) and puts it out under their own name. (24:56) Like, you’d be pretty pissed off, right? (25:00) Yeah, that was my way. (25:01) If that was my sole source of income, or I was going down that road to make income as (25:07) an author, of course, in this current paradigm and way of thinking, yes.(25:12) Yeah, and that’s the thing. (25:13) We’re going to expand our paradigm shift. (25:15) We have to shift our paradigm thought to wrap around it, because if this is the case, we’re (25:20) all correct here.(25:21) It’s ours. (25:22) We made it. (25:22) And we put the labor in, right? (25:24) Like, we’re going to ask about a natural right.(25:26) But basically, we’ve always thought, if it requires labor, it’s not a natural right. (25:32) And if someone’s job is writer, and not a hobby, we’re talking hobby, that’s labor. (25:38) That’s not free time, you know, twiddling your thumbs, right? (25:44) Yeah, I mean, you could say, like, okay, I’m going to put this book out there.(25:48) I just hope people get it. (25:50) Maybe I’ll make a buck. (25:51) I’ll, you know, I’ll put my name in it and stuff.(25:53) So if people see it, they’ll know my name. (25:55) And then I can use that. (25:56) Like, if you really think about the publishing industry, there’s a very, very small percentage (26:01) of people that actually make money publishing books, like real big money, you know, you (26:07) might make a few hundred, a few thousand, whatever, but you’re not going to become a (26:11) millionaire writing a book most of the time, like 99.99% of the time.(26:15) So if you think of it that way, like, hey, I just wrote this book, and I want it out (26:18) there because it’s going to lead to me being able to market my other things. (26:22) And it’s going to paint me as an expert in this field, then you’d probably want people (26:27) to copy it and share it as much as they can. (26:30) Again, taking it and putting your name on someone else’s work is a different story.(26:35) And that’s immoral, I think. (26:37) But that’s where it gets a little bit tricky for me on the intellectual property. (26:45) And once again, like, our podcast is the message, like, we’re doing this podcasting (26:49) thing.(26:49) We’re hoping at some point we’re going to monetize this. (26:52) It would be great. (26:53) It’d be great.(26:53) But regardless, we’re still sitting here on a Thursday night because we’re talking (26:57) about these really important issues because we actually care just in general for ourselves. (27:01) We just have a curiosity. (27:02) This is just who we are.(27:04) Now, if this becomes something bigger, then it’s something to talk about. (27:06) But until then, I can be like, yeah, anybody can take my idea because it’s, you know, I’m (27:11) just trying to get an idea. (27:12) When you eclipse a certain level, I feel like you’d be like, well, now it is my idea.(27:17) It’s got some weight behind it. (27:19) So maybe it’s got more. (27:20) And does that mean that we value people differently then? (27:24) Or you know what I mean? (27:24) Because it’s almost like, well, I got seniority, you know what I mean? (27:27) Because we don’t believe in unions in that way, right? (27:29) I’ve got seniority.(27:30) So I must be above you in the scale because I’ve been there longer, you know? (27:34) Well, technology is jumping so far forward so quickly. (27:37) It’s always ahead of government, legislature, whatever. (27:40) Like right now, AI has been going out there and sucking down any information they can (27:47) get a hold of, even from sites where it might be illegal.(27:51) So, you know, such as like a site like, I’m drawing a blank. (27:56) I’m horrible with names. (27:59) LibGen is a place where books are at and you can download these free books.(28:05) And it’s kind of an unknown site. (28:07) But, you know, AI has downloaded, you know, countless books. (28:12) They didn’t go out and buy all these books from these authors.(28:15) And so there’s authors out there that are turning around and like, hey, they want to (28:19) sue Zuckerberg, you know, say, hey, your AI downloaded my book. (28:23) I verified this. (28:24) And now I want to sue you for theft of my intellectual property, my book, I’m an author.(28:31) Fiction or nonfiction, whatever. (28:33) And so that, you know, they’re saying, well, it comes under the IP law and they’re saying, (28:41) well, time out. (28:42) This information was already out there in the, I’ll say ether, you know, out there on (28:47) the web.(28:48) It was already free to download somewhere else. (28:51) And maybe you need to go after the person who posted it on the site, but it’s already (28:57) been propagated. (28:58) And it’s now in all various different AIs.(29:01) So you can almost look up any book and get a summary of any book. (29:04) And how would the AI know the summary? (29:06) Well, it downloaded the information from by reading the book, you know, someone gave it (29:11) to him. (29:12) And so did they violate those copyright laws? (29:17) The point being, it’s already out now.(29:21) I don’t know how you put that genie back in the bottle. (29:26) Yeah, you got to look at enforcement, right? (29:27) The simple cost of enforcement is just so astronomical. (29:31) When you are dealing with the internet age, you can’t go into everyone’s house and get (29:36) their hard drive and say, you can’t have this illegal copy.(29:39) It’s just, it’s impossible. (29:41) Even if you want to. (29:42) Keyword enforcement.(29:43) That’s kind of where I, you know, now enforcement takes us down the road towards government, (29:49) which is going to lead to tyranny and lawfare. (29:52) But by having intellectual, I mean, by having intellectual property laws, you probably have (29:58) a department that would handle that, which would be some sort of centralization. (30:03) I mean, right.(30:03) I mean, it wouldn’t kind of all just net logically become that out of its necessity of being (30:10) what it, what its job is. (30:12) Or is the information going, being spread out and, and put out there for everyone to (30:19) look at and read to inspire new ideas without a paywall or licensing fees and this kind (30:26) of thing. (30:26) Isn’t that going to expedite progress and expedite new innovation, maybe new cures for (30:32) the new disease at a cheaper price? (30:36) What, you know, look at, look at, look at pharmaceuticals, the new drug, and everything’s (30:41) advertised on just about every between every show is the new drug and may cause, you know, (30:47) leakage or something.(30:50) Yes, that’s what I was looking at. (30:52) That’s what I’m missing on my checklist, my side effect checklist. (30:55) That’s the one I’m missing is anal leakage.(30:57) I guess, I guess that’s kind of where you got to think of. (31:01) All right, well, wait a minute. (31:02) How fast could this new drug be rolled out if they had access to all the scientific papers (31:08) and this information, wouldn’t that be better for society? (31:12) And if the information is gathered cheaper and quicker, then maybe the cost of the, the (31:19) new drug is, is much faster.(31:22) Yeah. (31:22) So the big argument for IP law is that it does incentivize people to create, right? (31:30) I don’t know if this is true. (31:31) I think there’s a little bit to it.(31:33) It’s not completely baseless, right? (31:35) If you, if you want to invent something because you think you can get rich from it, that’s (31:41) an incentive, right? (31:42) And so, but if there’s no IP law and somebody can just come in and copy your idea and market (31:47) it on their own without any penalty, then maybe that does stifle innovation. (31:52) I don’t know. (31:52) What do you think? (31:55) I can talk a little bit to that.(31:57) I’m hearing both sides of that, right? (31:59) I hear that IP laws stifle innovation and I hear that IP, no, no IP laws stifle innovation (32:05) because people copy. (32:06) But I mean, the truth, I guess the broader point for me is with IP laws in place, I make (32:13) something and I’m protected for X amount of time, right? (32:17) So no one, I’ve got no competition for whatever length that thing is that I can, that I’m (32:23) protected. (32:23) What, where’s my incentive to improve it? (32:26) If I’m the only one who makes it and I’ve cornered the market on the thing because no (32:31) one else can make it.(32:32) So that would be the question, the question I would ask, I guess, throw back to you gentlemen. (32:38) That’s a great point. (32:40) It is.(32:42) Patent trolls is what we’re creating. (32:46) We’re creating patent trolls to go out and buy up these patents or ridiculous patents (32:52) and then legislate or enforce it with these, you know, obscene amounts in a lawsuit. (33:00) For example, the one I had sent you that it’s, it goes back 11, 12 years.(33:09) It’s in the state of Texas, Eastern Texas, where this gentleman had created a software (33:17) that was an app and he got sued because the app could be downloaded on the play store (33:22) because someone had created this ambiguous broad stroke patent that downloading software (33:31) was a patent. (33:32) And so because he put his software on the play store, they sued him because his customers (33:39) were downloading it on the play store. (33:42) And I watched that it was, what it was, was it was a search feature.(33:46) Just the idea of search in the web made the, that idea was patented. (33:54) So this guy sued like tons of companies and this guy got caught up in it. (33:59) He made, he was making an app for aviation software and aviation software app.(34:03) And they’re suing him because in order to be on the app store, they need to verify the (34:08) information. (34:08) So they have to use a search function. (34:10) The search function is just the idea that this group came up with Omnicon or whatever (34:15) all they do is create ideas and then lock them down and then sue them for their ideas.(34:21) How is that productive? (34:23) Where is that anywhere productive? (34:25) You’ve removed something from the app and you’re, you’re blocking someone else’s idea (34:30) out. (34:30) How is that product? (34:31) And you haven’t made anything. (34:32) You haven’t made anything to compete against it.(34:34) It’s like, it’s crazy. (34:35) Yeah. (34:36) And then they’re using the strong arm of, of the justice system in this case being corrupt (34:42) in East Texas to wield the sword and strike down the, the inventor.(34:51) Otherwise they have to pay some kind of extortion money. (34:54) So the system’s broken, but see, we haven’t experienced a life really without this, this, (35:03) these IP laws. (35:04) We haven’t really walked through the concept and, you know, and did all, you know, listed (35:10) all the pros and cons.(35:12) And, and a lot of people haven’t done research papers. (35:15) What, you know, prove, prove to either side, is it, is it going to stimulate, you know, (35:21) innovation or is it going to slow innovation or what types of innovation is going to speed (35:26) up and which one’s going to be slow? (35:28) But I’m going to argue that AI already has a lot of this information. (35:32) And if you hold a patent, AI is just going to steamroll right over it.(35:36) Yeah, and Jason, I’d love to get some thoughts, but what I’m thinking is maybe we should go (35:41) into each of the four main types and get individual feelings. (35:45) Cause I do think some of them become a little more personal than others. (35:48) And, and maybe we, we do have different ideas on that, but I’d love to, for you to finish (35:53) up on that one point.(35:54) Cause you’re the one that posed this question initially about stifling innovation as a, (35:58) as a whole. (36:00) Yeah. (36:00) I just want to say that I think software, what you mentioned earlier is a great example (36:04) of this, how people take existing software, open source stuff and build on it and make (36:09) it better and kind of, you know, group, group think their way into something that really (36:15) works.(36:17) I guess if I, you know, if I’m trying to poke a hole in that, I would think, well, if you (36:22) don’t make money off of it, you know, you don’t have the budget to pay people to make (36:26) it really, really professional or something like that. (36:29) But people seem to just want to do it, you know, just because they like it or they think (36:33) that ultimately it’s better for the world or better for them, even if they have this (36:38) great software product and operating system, whatever it is to be able to use. (36:44) You know, you also have to think about, you can’t think, didn’t Einstein work? (36:50) He did.(36:50) He did work as a patent clerk. (36:51) That gave it, that’s like my job. (36:53) So I can do this.(36:54) It’s like, so I can get the brainpower to do everything else. (36:57) I have a job like a patent clerk job. (36:59) Yeah.(37:00) You have to think about these, these laws because intellectual property laws are different (37:05) in each country. (37:06) And now that we have such global trade, oops, tariffs. (37:12) That’s a bigger problem because of the ideological shifts we’re having now too.(37:16) We’re having ideological shifts between the EU and the United States. (37:19) We’re having ideological shifts between Canada and the United States. (37:23) We’re, it’s like, what is going on, right? (37:25) We’re having a literal topsy-turvy world happening with these border issues and blockchain (37:30) crosses those borders.(37:32) And we’re trying, IP does too. (37:33) Look what they’re doing to Elon with Starlink in one state and whatever, to your point, (37:38) to try to use a VPN to go outside. (37:40) They can fine you up to, you know, a million dollars, arrest you in Brazil.(37:43) I mean, the, the way the central places are just tightening their fists, you know, it’s (37:48) crazy. (37:49) You really got to look at China. (37:51) It’s, that’s the problem.(37:52) It’s China. (37:53) Okay. (37:54) Oh no, it’s Canada.(37:55) They don’t believe in God anymore. (37:59) Canada’s making the frogs gay. (38:02) Yeah, there we go.(38:05) Yeah, man. (38:06) Well, China’s an interesting case because for so long they didn’t have basically any (38:10) IP law, which is kind of interesting because they’re, you know, they were very communist (38:16) coming out of the 20th century. (38:19) So, and now they’ve become more prosperous, but they’ve started to incorporate more and (38:26) more intellectual property law into their system.(38:29) So it’s a very interesting contrast. (38:33) I don’t know if you guys have any thoughts on that. (38:35) Well, you can’t sue them.(38:37) You can’t sue China for nothing. (38:38) So, you know, they’re going to steal your technology. (38:42) It’s inevitable.(38:43) And, you know, so while those patent laws and may work real well within our border or (38:52) within the United States in protecting your patent, it’s going to leak out to the world. (38:58) And then it’s going to come back into the US via, you know, numerous companies, you (39:03) know, and so you, what, you sue the importer and then you find out the importer is just (39:09) someone else who’s bought and sold it while it was on, you know, on the ocean, you know, (39:14) and then it was maybe bought and sold several times. (39:17) And then it’s, there’s, you know, shell company after shell company.(39:21) So who do you sell? (39:22) Who do you sue? (39:23) And the next thing you know, you’re not, you found yourself back in China and trying to (39:28) sue or collect money from someone in China. (39:30) Impossible. (39:32) So even internally, though, in China, like they’ve become more prosperous because, well, (39:38) they’ve privatized industry more and more, but along with that has come intellectual (39:43) property.(39:43) And I don’t know if that correlation has anything to do with the cause. (39:48) I have a question about that, Jason, because I may, I may just misunderstand China. (39:51) My understanding is, Hey, China, we’re going to give you the best life we can as an (39:57) authoritarian power.(39:59) But for that, we do the planning for all the years ahead and we own this other stuff and (40:04) they’re like, okay, we’re prosperous. (40:06) I thought they didn’t have the IP laws. (40:07) I thought that they had to give their stuff to China all the time, don’t they? (40:13) Yes.(40:14) Basically, everything is kind of indirectly state owned. (40:18) It used to be 100% communist. (40:20) So they are, they’re flirting with it, but I think they’re only flirting with it to make (40:23) it work with the capitalism to keep, you know what I mean? (40:26) To keep the finances working with their system.(40:28) Right. (40:28) So like it’s almost like when Rome, when Rome switched to a monotheistic ideology, it was (40:35) almost to save the empire because people had started believing like God, like God, (40:39) right. (40:40) Jesus said like a single entity from polytheism.(40:43) And he’s like, this whole thing is going to crumble if I don’t switch or something, you (40:45) know, it’s kind of like a, it’s pragmatic, it’s pragmatic to do so. (40:48) Right. (40:49) But I look at this, there’s a company called BYD and they have been making waves.(40:55) You can look them up. (40:56) You do a web search. (40:58) It’s an electric car company.(40:59) And I remember, I remember when there were so many regulations here and Elon’s like, (41:05) I’m going to China and China is going to help me build this electric infrastructure. (41:09) And I’m sitting there going, that’s not going to be good for you in the end, to be honest. (41:14) Right.(41:15) They literally build this whole infrastructure, the bad, what they need, how they need it. (41:19) And now look at this company, BYD, they are releasing cars that are $12,000 that can auto (41:25) drive. (41:26) I mean, no, I mean, it’s not the most amazing thing, but they have a $60,000 vehicle comparatively (41:31) that is $200,000 here, you know? (41:34) So it’s interesting how in our, it’s almost like, I don’t blame Elon, you know, you have (41:41) to do what you have to do.(41:42) But like in his desire to make his dream come true, he gave all his ideas, basically knowing (41:49) to this country that he knows is going to do something with it. (41:54) And they have. (41:56) Yeah, Elon is interesting too, because he also released the Tesla patent, the electric (42:00) car patents.(42:01) He said, if, you know, if somebody else wants to take this and prove on it, go ahead, we’re (42:06) not going to take legal action. (42:08) So that’s also interesting. (42:10) Right.(42:12) And if you look like those BYD cars are absolutely ridiculous. (42:15) I watched some people doing reviews on them and it’s unbelievable. (42:19) And we can’t get them here, obviously, because there’s a ban.(42:22) Right. (42:23) Yeah. (42:24) Yeah, there you go.(42:25) There you go. (42:26) We’re protecting our industry, not what’s best or cheaper for the citizens as a whole. (42:34) Yes, yeah.(42:36) That’s again, kind of goes to my point where I like culture, I like borders. (42:41) I’m not a non-border person, but we have to wake up to the world that we live in. (42:47) And AI, blockchain, et cetera, is growing and it’s borderless or decentralization is (42:54) borderless.(42:54) And the powers that our technology, we can still have be liberty minded and other people (43:00) can be tyrannical minded. (43:01) What does that really have to do with this technology? (43:04) And I think what it really is, is the people with power want someone to be control of everyone (43:11) somewhere so that they have a, you know, a central enemy or they have a what you can’t (43:16) really kill an idea. (43:18) You can kill it.(43:18) Like you can make the head person, the idea, right. (43:21) And go after that person, make them the enemy like Saddam or Gaddafi, right. (43:26) So it’s a very interesting way how we play these geopolitics too and why we feel those (43:30) needs for control.(43:32) You know, it’s interesting in this whole IP, you know, as I’ve been going through the (43:36) process in my own head and maybe I’m unable to articulate it in a way that, but the area (43:44) that I was having the hardest time to was trademarks. (43:52) And they could think of like, I don’t know, bear aspirin. (43:57) And, you know, you go, you got a headache, you trust bear aspirin because it works the (44:02) best for you rather than Tylenol or whatever.(44:05) And I don’t know, you got a headache and you’re at the store and someone sells you, I want (44:10) bear aspirin because that’s what works best for me. (44:13) And you go to the store and well, it looks like bear aspirin. (44:15) It looks like their label, but it really isn’t, you know, it’s a knockoff.(44:20) And so this is where the trade, you know, the trademark comes into play. (44:25) Well, wait a minute, it’s got all the same colors. (44:28) How did I know it wasn’t a knockoff? (44:30) You know, I thought it was the real deal.(44:31) I still got this headache. (44:33) And so this is where I was struggling. (44:36) And so then I kind of, I guess how my brain works, I go, all right, well, what’s the solution? (44:41) How do I plug in, say, blockchain to solve this? (44:44) Well, it’s, it’s, it’s, we have it.(44:46) We, it’s, it’s ranking. (44:48) Well, I’m not, don’t buy from this guy because he’s selling you knockoff aspirin and it’s (44:52) not going to fix your headache or whatever the case might be. (44:55) And so I was thinking in those terms, you know, you post to a blockchain, nobody can (45:01) alter or change it.(45:02) They can verify that I was the person at that location that bought the, the, this, you know, (45:10) knockoff, you know, sugar pill that wasn’t really aspirin. (45:14) But does that really solve the issue with trademarks? (45:18) Well, I like that. (45:19) If you scan, what if I had a barcode on it and you scan the product and it gave you the (45:24) blockchain of that product and, and, and there’s a, you know, there would be a third party (45:30) that would probably represent Bayer or the companies and say, you know, what’s, what’s (45:35) one of those fact checker things that they put on Twitter, right.(45:37) Like a, you know, addendum note that it, this is where this group took it and moved it, (45:44) you know, and then the branched off or something in that way. (45:46) And, and yeah, community notes. (45:48) Boy, I know that well, but yeah, that weird.(45:51) Yeah, that’s, you’re right. (45:52) You’re absolutely right. (45:53) The scan would, might show up and it would pop up on your phone and say, well, Bayer (45:59) aspirin tells me that it’s in, you know, in I don’t know, you know, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.(46:05) It’s not sitting here in Costa Mesa. (46:08) Yeah. (46:08) You know what I mean? (46:09) Wait a minute.(46:10) Now that’s a knockoff. (46:11) It’s not the real deal. (46:12) So I remember that.(46:13) I remember knockoff. (46:15) If I remember correctly, do I remember knockoff like a toxic toothpaste from China that was (46:21) a fake Colgate? (46:22) Was it Colgate? (46:23) It was one that started with a crest or Colgate, I thought. (46:25) And it was something where it was a Chinese and it had like littered, like totally like, (46:32) I think even a great grocery stores had bought it.(46:35) Thinking it was Colgate or something like that. (46:37) So, you know, it does happen. (46:39) There is fraud out there.(46:40) So let’s, let’s talk about trademarks. (46:42) Trademarks are a great one. (46:42) I saw one about fashion today, the Louis Vuitton, that little four cross thing, but with Moo (46:48) Moo or something, and you think it’s, you see the pattern from far away, like an impressionist (46:52) painting, right? (46:53) But it doesn’t have the exact words LV on it.(46:55) Right? (46:56) So, so trademarks are what brands, logos, slogans, right? (47:02) The Nike swoosh would be a logo or brand, right? (47:06) Slogan would be, let’s get ready to rumble. (47:08) That might be a copyright, but it might. (47:10) Oh, let’s do it.(47:12) Yeah. (47:13) Yeah, exactly. (47:15) Right.(47:16) Yeah. (47:16) Which one? (47:16) Which one was it? (47:18) IBW. (47:19) Oh, yeah.(47:19) There you go. (47:19) IBW. (47:20) Perfect.(47:21) Right up there. (47:22) Yeah. (47:23) Yeah.(47:23) Don’t steal our stuff. (47:24) Steal Jason’s stuff, guys. (47:26) And by the way, before we continue, we’ve got more than 30 people on.(47:29) Thank you so much for joining us. (47:31) We’ve got I am for I am over here. (47:33) Jason, my good buddy over here or that way.(47:37) And we’re talking about intellectual property. (47:39) William is our first guest on If Buy Whiskey. (47:42) And it’s been a delight.(47:43) So thank you so much for joining us. (47:45) And so these things, it’s an indefinite thing if it’s mandated. (47:49) Right? (47:50) So Jason, what are your thoughts on the trademark as a whole? (47:53) So the high end brand stuff never bothered me.(47:56) Like people, if you want to make a knockoff Gucci thing or whatever brands, (48:00) I don’t even know what they are. (48:03) Please go ahead, because they’re making these purses and stuff for like $10. (48:08) And they sell them for thousands.(48:09) It’s just ridiculous. (48:10) So that stuff never bothered me. (48:13) But the thing we talk about, like the Bayer, the aspirin or the Tylenol, whatever.(48:18) That’s a really interesting one. (48:20) And because you want to know that you’re getting the right product. (48:23) Right? (48:24) I wonder, let’s say it wasn’t like a bad product or anything.(48:29) But someone figured out the factory where they manufacture Bayer aspirin. (48:33) And you go to that factory and say, I know these ingredients cost a lot less (48:37) than they’re charging for them. (48:39) I want you to make the exact same product under a different label.(48:43) And we’re going to sell it for half as much. (48:45) Would that be a problem? (48:47) No, because it’s a free market. (48:49) And I believe in free markets, in my humble opinion.(48:54) I’m just a guy here on the internet. (48:56) But I don’t think it’s a problem. (48:58) Because ultimately, it’s going to happen.(49:01) Law of economics always wins. (49:03) And people are going to gravitate and move to the cheaper price or the quality that they want. (49:09) It’s a choice that you’re making at the point of sale.(49:13) And if someone can produce the same product for less, they’re going to grow in market share. (49:21) But that’s not going to last forever for them. (49:24) Because there’s always going to be someone who’s going to out-innovate them.(49:32) I guess what I’ve just described is a great example. (49:37) Is if we can use other technology, we don’t need IP laws. (49:42) Because the law of economics is going to win.(49:46) The people make products to sell, not just to make money, but to solve real-world problems (49:56) for the betterment of humanity. (49:58) And what are they doing? (50:00) They’re creating a solution. (50:03) Solutions are the ones that grow big.(50:07) And if you can create a solution by undercutting a competitor, who needs the IP for it? (50:13) We all win. (50:15) Yeah, that’s ruthless. (50:17) That’s a good point.(50:19) And JC, you want to read that one? (50:21) Because I got a thought about that. (50:23) Yeah, Justin says, if they can copy the label, they can copy the bar scan or QR code. (50:28) Absolutely.(50:29) So they could make a fake website or a fake blockchain site, server site, right? (50:34) That they have their QR code direct to that, right? (50:38) It’s not going to be everywhere. (50:40) You could have a centralized bank, like a centralized sign at your location that says, (50:47) these are all your products, like in a book. (50:49) And I know that sounds a little old school, but sometimes a little old school doesn’t (50:54) hurt to mix in here.(50:55) But it could be a centralized database at the location that sells a product, not on (51:00) the bottle, for example. (51:01) If you’re really attached to a product or a brand and you want that one specifically, (51:05) the blockchain is a great solution because they can also, you know, when you look up (51:10) that blockchain code, that can also show you like where they’ve sent the product. (51:14) And is this real? (51:15) Is it actually at the store? (51:16) So the blockchain is a great solution to a lot of the potential problems that are introduced (51:22) by lack of IP law.(51:24) So, yeah, it’s a great point, though. (51:27) I think it’s a kind of good way to protect us in a transparency way. (51:31) And that’s, I think, why it kind of worked to have you on, William, for this conversation, (51:35) because there’s a lot of multifaceted to that.(51:39) Jason, you want to address that one from Justin as well? (51:43) Since they already do that, Walgreens doesn’t really make their own brand of ibuprofen or (51:47) toilet paper. (51:48) They have those same manufacturers print their label on it. (51:50) Yeah.(51:51) Yeah, I was thinking of that too while I said it, like the, you know, copying a formula (51:55) and manufacturing this. (51:56) Yeah, there’s always these not, what do you call it, no name brands where you can get (52:01) the same thing, but it’s just a different label. (52:04) Just like generic.(52:05) But those aren’t stolen. (52:08) They made an agreement to do that. (52:09) Right.(52:10) So once again, this is a voluntary agreement to do this service. (52:14) Well, your patent only lasts so long, right? (52:16) So you can’t sue after so many years. (52:19) Right.(52:21) And that’s the thing, though. (52:22) So basically they’ve got the knockoffs, but they do make that agreement. (52:25) Now, what you were saying before, Jason, it made me think right away.(52:28) Trade secrets is the other part of that, right? (52:30) When you’re talking about trying to make the identical Bayer aspirin, trade secrets include (52:36) the Kentucky fried chicken, right? (52:38) The secret recipe, even that McDonald’s thing. (52:42) Remember the bricks thing I told you about? (52:44) I think that’s a trade secret. (52:45) The one when we talked about it last Monday about the McDonald’s, the way they make their (52:50) carbonation mixture or whatever.(52:51) So these are things that are those legal or is it is it legal to copy those? (52:58) Or is it that if you put it out, that’s everybody’s now because you put it out. (53:05) So regardless, you put anything out there, you put it out. (53:10) You know what I mean? (53:10) What are your thoughts on that in general, that broader sense than even a risk like I (53:15) own it sense like I should get paid or compensated? (53:19) You’re certainly within your rights to try to protect your trade secrets, you know, but (53:25) that’s kind of your responsibility, I think, in a in an anarchist, agorist world.(53:31) Would you agree with that? (53:32) Yeah. (53:34) Nintendo used to have armed guards or they probably still do. (53:38) But I remember buddies that used to go up to I think it was up in Seattle because it (53:42) was their home thing.(53:42) The amount of security to get into Nintendo, because remember the game war, the game wars (53:50) back then, it was so lucrative. (53:52) Like, anyway, I apologize. (53:54) I just it just made me think about private.(53:56) Mark, like you mentioned here in the private chat about like Coca-Cola’s recipe and the (54:02) KFC recipe, you know, those are, you know, I remember I remember KFC doing commercials (54:10) on their secret recipe locked in this vault, you know, and it was stronger than the Fort (54:16) Knox or something. (54:18) But now, by the way, it probably is. (54:20) There’s probably no golden Fort Knox.(54:22) Just you know, it really comes down to today’s technology. (54:30) You can take something and analyze all the ingredients, you know, the spectrometer and (54:35) determine how much salt, how much paprika, how much this is the recipe. (54:41) And then you can quickly, easily replicate it.(54:44) Maybe there’s a little bit of trade secret. (54:46) Well, you got to mix this one first and that one because there’s a chemical reaction or (54:50) something like that. (54:51) But eventually you’ll figure it out.(54:53) So but I made my trademark product. (54:56) I trademarked the thing that that that does that. (54:59) And I don’t want you to use it, William.(55:00) So I don’t I won’t let you use it because I made the product that can tell you what’s (55:04) in the stuff. (55:05) OK, well, I’m just going to invest in a company that’s offshore and that’s I guess the point (55:13) is, even though a company tries to lock down the secret, they could have a a falling out (55:19) with a middle level manager. (55:21) I’ve seen it before who, you know, steals your customers and steals your your processes (55:27) that you only you knew and you operated under.(55:31) And it worked well for you. (55:32) And next thing you know, this this former employee that you had a scuffle with or, you (55:38) know, gave him a bad evaluation review, left your company, took a couple of customers and (55:44) your processes with it. (55:46) And now they’re your biggest competitor.(55:47) I’ve seen that over and over, which and that’s not that I like it, but it’s hard to contain (55:54) that information. (55:56) And is your job to make something and then rest on your laurels for the rest of your (56:02) life? Or is your job to continuously contribute to society in a positive manner? (56:08) Like, and I’m not saying good or bad or different. (56:10) There’s just a meta question there, too, right? (56:12) Like when these people are like, yeah, I’ve got 130 year patent because my grandfather (56:16) built something still alive at 90 and I get another 50 years past that or whatever, you (56:21) know, you’re like, what, you know? (56:24) Yeah.One thing I do want to mention here, we haven’t talked about the morality of the (56:28) ethics of this. (56:29) And there is certainly a component there, you know, do no harm principle, which you (56:35) started with the opening, Jason, about, you know, do no harm. (56:40) Are we harming somebody by, you know, the free market? (56:44) Is the free market harming you by, you know, someone else is stealing your stuff, shall (56:50) we say, because we’re saying theft and steal as if it’s property.(56:55) I don’t want people to think that just because I’m, I’m, I think now that the IP laws (57:04) are a little bit more old and outdated, maybe even archaic. (57:09) And especially when you look at their, you know, their origin, then at today’s fast (57:16) paced technology with AI, blockchain, etc. (57:18) There’s other solutions that might, you know, help society in a much faster pace.(57:26) And so I want people to think, I don’t want people to think that I’m some person that’s (57:31) out there is going to be stealing intellectual property and this kind of thing. (57:35) I’m just going to tell you, it’s just going to get out no matter what you do or how much (57:39) you try to protect it. (57:43) I don’t think I’d be the one to want to steal it.(57:46) But I guarantee if I saw two very identical products and one was half the price of the (57:51) other, I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t know in the back of my head, it’s probably something, (57:56) but I wouldn’t question it. (58:00) Right, right. (58:01) An interesting example would be like music, because it drives me nuts that I can’t just (58:07) clip a little piece of a song and use it in my podcast or something without going through (58:12) all these legal hurdles and getting permission.(58:14) And even if the artist wants to give you permission, they’re like, well, I have this (58:17) deal with the record company and they’re going to make me pay $10,000 to use it for five (58:23) seconds. (58:23) And just like really like if I’m using this and not like in a bad way, you know, if I’m (58:30) using your music, it’s sharing it out there. (58:32) It’s getting people interested in it.(58:33) So that kind of copyright type stuff really, really bugs me. (58:39) I wish that people would just drop it. (58:42) That’s such an American thing.(58:44) I definitely would talk music next. (58:46) Could you share Justin’s comment down there, Jason? (58:49) We’ll talk about that last piece because music is such a huge one for me in a very (58:54) unique way, for sure. (58:56) Yeah, Justin says, so if things can just be made public information anyway, then creators (59:01) and innovators should just abandon hoping to profit or provide for themselves and their (59:05) families.(59:06) That’s a very common sentiment you’ll hear from pro IP people. (59:12) It’s not crazy. (59:14) It’s not unfounded.(59:15) But what do you guys think? (59:18) Someone else is going to make the music. (59:20) Someone else is going to make the creation, the innovation. (59:24) I mean, let’s look at graffiti.(59:26) People put up graffiti maybe for the fame or the graffiti of the art or the mural on the (59:31) side of the building, not necessarily for the payment that they’re going to receive because (59:35) they painted some graffiti on a rail car that’s traveling around the country. (59:42) So they hope that someday they’ll see it again and say, wow, that’s my work. (59:47) And that gives them that satisfaction, that joy.(59:51) So not everything is for money. (59:55) This is that paradigm shift, kind of an altruistic reason for creation. (1:00:03) And it goes back to what you said, Mark.(1:00:06) It’s labor. (1:00:07) It’s labor property. (1:00:12) And there’s a meta thing here, too.(1:00:15) Once again, drive. (1:00:16) What drives that individual? (1:00:18) Ben Franklin did not have patents. (1:00:21) The reason he didn’t is because he liked to screw everybody.(1:00:24) He was popular. (1:00:25) He loved being this awesome dude and lived in this weird lifestyle. (1:00:32) You know what I mean? (1:00:33) It wasn’t the money.(1:00:34) He was in the upper echelons already. (1:00:38) He wanted the notoriety and the fame, like the Jonas Salk. (1:00:42) What was the motivation? (1:00:44) I mean, maybe it was just an actual altruistic motive.(1:00:47) But it’s not always money, to your point. (1:00:51) Sometimes it’s fame and other notoriety or just being acknowledged. (1:00:55) Stroke in the ego.(1:00:57) Elon Musk, by the way, I would call the modern-day Franklin. (1:01:02) I think there’s a lot of parallels there. (1:01:04) We just got IP’d.(1:01:06) We just got IP’d by William, apparently. (1:01:09) Uh-oh. (1:01:10) Zach.(1:01:14) Oh, wow. (1:01:15) Here comes Justin with some good stuff. (1:01:16) Good, good, William.(1:01:17) Bring it on. (1:01:18) Nice. (1:01:19) Milton Friedman.(1:01:20) Oh, yeah. (1:01:26) That’s a great example. (1:01:29) Tell me where you find these angels who are going to organize society for us.(1:01:36) Oh, good old Milton. (1:01:37) That’s funny. (1:01:38) Why can’t we organize it ourselves and then come together? (1:01:43) Clean your room, Justin.(1:01:47) Clean your room. (1:01:48) Don’t believe in God. (1:01:50) God’s great.(1:01:52) The motivation thing is an interesting aspect. (1:01:55) I don’t want to just gloss over it because I think (1:01:58) you can probably make the case that in the long run, (1:02:02) humanity as a whole, or society, or your country, or even your local community (1:02:05) would be better off without the IP stuff. (1:02:09) But people are not going to be able to think that long-term in many cases, (1:02:14) and they’re going to want that big payday.(1:02:17) I want to patent this for 10 years, and I’m only going to manufacture it, (1:02:21) and I’m going to make all the money for it, (1:02:23) and that’s motivating me to make this thing. (1:02:25) So how do we get past that? (1:02:30) That’s a good point. (1:02:31) Stroke of the ego.(1:02:33) Gosh, we’re really at the crossroads, and some say we’re not. (1:02:38) I’m sorry, folks. (1:02:40) I don’t mean to keep pounding the whole AI thing, (1:02:42) but we’re coming up against robots taking jobs and AI taking jobs, (1:02:49) and new jobs will be created from this technology without a doubt.(1:02:53) I don’t know if the new jobs are going to increase in quantity (1:02:59) fast enough for the jobs that are being lost. (1:03:04) IP is one of those things that maybe it’ll work, (1:03:11) but I don’t think these AI companies are going to, (1:03:15) or even other cross borders, (1:03:18) if the IP, if the AI servers are, I don’t know, (1:03:23) on a ship and floating somewhere in the Pacific Ocean (1:03:27) is what is called the domicile location, (1:03:30) then how are you going to sue it? (1:03:31) How are you going to go after them if they’ve already stolen your IP? (1:03:36) And I think that’s what we’re up against or in the very near future. (1:03:40) So I hate to use the idea of universal basic income.(1:03:46) Yeesh, that’s a whole nother show topic. (1:03:48) Yeah, that’s where my head went. (1:03:51) Who knows if that’s in the cards here in our near future? (1:03:54) I don’t know.(1:03:55) Yeah, but once again, we are administering that to someone to dole that out. (1:04:04) Are we really going to trust the people (1:04:06) who constantly are doing what they’re doing to do that on top? (1:04:10) Like, let’s fail upward, gentlemen. (1:04:12) Let’s give more and more of our, (1:04:14) and it’s not, I’m not saying I have the answer correct, (1:04:16) but I don’t know if that’s just the solution to continue going down anymore.(1:04:21) You know what I mean? (1:04:21) It’s, we almost, we almost should become communal. (1:04:25) Really, you have our neighborhoods, you know, start with our house (1:04:27) and then work with our neighbors to on each side across the street (1:04:31) and work on our communal. (1:04:33) And I know that sounds basic, but ground up, (1:04:36) I mean, it’s the closest and the thing that affects us the most is direct contact.(1:04:42) Agreed, Mark. (1:04:45) But Zach makes a great point really quick as well. (1:04:48) If you don’t mind reading that, go ahead, William, go ahead and read that.(1:04:51) Okay. (1:04:51) Humans are so stuck on this fallacy of hyper individualism (1:04:55) that it leads to collectivist decay. (1:05:01) I gotta say, Zach, that might be the smartest thing you’ve ever said, buddy.(1:05:03) Congratulations. (1:05:06) I mean, he’s all the other stuff he says on comments. (1:05:09) He’s reading.(1:05:10) He’s reading and now he’s being able to interpret what he’s read. (1:05:15) Can someone explain that? (1:05:17) Because I think I know how that means, (1:05:19) but can either of you two gentlemen kind of dissect what that means (1:05:21) and how he’s explaining that to people? (1:05:24) Because it’s almost an oxymoron, right? (1:05:27) It’s like a backwards thought. (1:05:30) William, you want to take it? (1:05:33) I think he’s thinking that people are attacking individualism (1:05:37) when they should be looking at, (1:05:39) or the collective sound like the board is starting to fail.(1:05:46) It’s starting to decay, but society is decaying. (1:05:49) And the idea that individualism is a fallacy (1:05:53) is what those are saying that are relying on the collective. (1:06:00) Saying individualism isn’t going to fix it when in fact it is.(1:06:03) That’s how I’m reading it or understanding. (1:06:06) In reference to like the idea where I want to patent this, (1:06:09) I want it for myself. (1:06:10) I want the big payday.(1:06:12) That’s the hyper individualist. (1:06:15) That is actually extracting from society (1:06:18) because you’re not allowing growth to happen. (1:06:20) So that’s what I take from it.(1:06:23) Yeah, that’s exactly what I think is like, (1:06:25) we’re so individualist that this is mine, this is mine. (1:06:28) We need an overlord to tell everyone that this is mine. (1:06:33) So by all the saying, we want this to be ours, (1:06:37) let’s collectively get together to have someone administer (1:06:42) the authority of who’s that is, right? (1:06:45) And let me add, this is not vindicating communists, by the way.(1:06:48) This is saying that those people that are like, (1:06:55) oh, corporations, blah, blah, blah. (1:06:57) No, it’s the corporations that lobby government (1:07:00) to create laws in their favor so that they can monopolize things. (1:07:03) Corporate cronyism.(1:07:04) That’s not what we want either, ladies and gentlemen. (1:07:06) This isn’t the pure capitalism. (1:07:08) Everybody keeps going, oh, well, I guess your capitalism sucks now.(1:07:11) It’s like, this isn’t what you want it to be. (1:07:14) It’s not even close to what you think it is. (1:07:16) All right.(1:07:17) So we got to circle back before we go to the next meta point that I have (1:07:21) because I’ve got this weird one that’s up here. (1:07:24) But let’s go to music. (1:07:27) I remember the Beastie Boys.(1:07:30) Licensed to Ill followed by Paul’s Boutique. (1:07:32) I think Paul’s Boutique was probably one of the greatest albums of all time. (1:07:39) And it’s underrated, but it samples tons of musicians that got zero credit, (1:07:46) zero payback for all the music that they used in the influence of those music.(1:07:51) And I will 100% die on this hill without those things. (1:07:55) Now, they put it together. (1:07:56) That’s its own thing.(1:07:57) But without those initial pieces, those foundational pieces, (1:08:00) Paul’s Boutique isn’t Paul’s Boutique. (1:08:02) You know what I mean? (1:08:04) And I’m curious how you guys feel about that part of music. (1:08:08) Because to your point, it’s like, hey, I’m a hobbyist.(1:08:11) What did Matthew say? (1:08:12) He’s like, oh, if anybody listens to my music, yeah, great, Matthew. (1:08:15) No one gives a shit about your music. (1:08:17) And I don’t mean that in a bad way.(1:08:18) I just mean, no one gives a shit about our podcast either. (1:08:21) We’re still making it, right? (1:08:23) So at some point, we feel pride that it’s ours. (1:08:26) But at some point, if it did get to that level, wouldn’t it matter? (1:08:33) Well, if somebody wanted to dress up like us (1:08:35) and put our same logos and everything on the podcast, it still wouldn’t be us.(1:08:40) But honestly, for one, I think that’s hilarious. (1:08:43) Go ahead, please. (1:08:45) I’d be flattered if you did that.(1:08:48) What does an impression of Jason impersonating Trump sound like? (1:08:53) Well, it’s already awful. (1:08:54) So it’s got to be much worse. (1:08:58) I think Jason’s the real Donald Trump.(1:09:03) Yeah, so if I do a Trump impression, I’m clearly not Donald Trump, you know? (1:09:10) So when it does come to music, what are your thoughts in that way? (1:09:13) Obviously, we love that people admire our music and share it. (1:09:17) I mean, that’s part of it. (1:09:19) But we do see that these musicians with streaming the way they’re trying to hose (1:09:23) the system and trying to manipulate the numbers, that whole industry’s kind of got an issue.(1:09:29) That’s one of the complexes, right? (1:09:31) The entertainment industry. (1:09:34) Wow. (1:09:38) Any additional thoughts on music, Jason? (1:09:40) Where did I start with this? (1:09:44) Yeah, like I said, it drives me crazy that I can’t just use a clip of somebody’s music (1:09:47) and do that.(1:09:48) But if I were to just take a whole song and say, hey, this is mine, and put it out and (1:09:53) try to sell it, I think that would be wrong. (1:09:57) Do you think? (1:09:57) OK, so let’s ask this. (1:09:58) We want to do an intro music, right? (1:10:00) Now, Roman Garcia, Roaming Bandits, shout out Roman.(1:10:05) He wrote the song that we use and you have you have his permission. (1:10:10) We even credit him at the bottom, which is awesome. (1:10:13) But yeah, how how long would you accept your music to go to be clipped? (1:10:20) Like, say I want to do an intro.(1:10:22) Would you have 30 seconds, seven seconds, 10 seconds? (1:10:24) Would you do it or would you say just use the whole thing now? (1:10:28) Or would you say you can use any part of it as long as it doesn’t total X amount of (1:10:32) time? (1:10:33) Like curious how you would how you would be with people about. (1:10:36) Here’s one thing where I would take issue. (1:10:38) You could use the whole thing.(1:10:39) But if if it was somebody like, you know, a rabid communist or somebody who’s advocating (1:10:46) for war or something that I fundamentally disagree with and they used my stuff in service (1:10:53) of their their goals, I would have a problem with it. (1:10:56) But what then what can I do about it? (1:10:58) That’s that’s kind of where it comes to comes to a head. (1:11:03) You know, I don’t like enforcing it is a whole different thing.(1:11:08) And maybe in a society where we’re where we’re culturally shifted to this, maybe we would (1:11:14) not 100 percent. (1:11:16) That’s impossible. (1:11:17) There’s variants everywhere.(1:11:18) But maybe we would as a majority be like, oh, I use your music. (1:11:22) I’m offering you something or at least crediting because I know this is how it is and make (1:11:27) it part of your culture. (1:11:28) Right.(1:11:28) Like courtesy and respect should be like holding a door. (1:11:31) But even then, you know, if I’m an artist, I’m saying, OK, everyone now a bunch more (1:11:35) people are hearing my song and they’re going to want to come, maybe come see a show, come (1:11:40) to come to a concert and I can go tour around because of that exposure that I have. (1:11:44) So maybe it’s for a good thing because people will want to track down.(1:11:48) Why do people go to concerts? (1:11:50) You know, they don’t they don’t want to hear some knockoff person singing a song. (1:11:53) I guess you do have cover bands and stuff, but I used to be in one row. (1:11:57) I know exactly what they’re not making nearly as much headway as the actual artist that (1:12:03) did the original stuff.(1:12:04) Right. (1:12:07) Well, in the you know, when you gave the example of all the different music that was (1:12:12) compiled and put into one one song, you know, that was almost identical to the idea of the (1:12:19) developer, the programmer who’s taking code from different places to create a new work (1:12:24) of art or new code, a new software, whatever it’s being used for utility. (1:12:29) Could you argue that one’s functional and one’s create like one’s functional versus (1:12:35) creative is and I don’t want to go on coding because coding is a is an art, but it’s (1:12:42) more a utility than like what a song supposed to evoke.(1:12:47) The coding doesn’t evoke this. (1:12:51) It makes sense. (1:12:53) The the evoke is the is the utility.(1:12:56) Just there you go. (1:12:58) So it’s almost the same, but but different. (1:13:00) I agree.(1:13:01) You never know. (1:13:01) You got it. (1:13:02) You’re right about.(1:13:04) Oh, what? (1:13:05) You pulled me out. (1:13:07) Oh, my bad. (1:13:08) My bad.(1:13:09) Good. (1:13:09) I don’t like my idea because I stole. (1:13:12) Yeah, your intellectual property, isn’t it? (1:13:14) Oh, well, quite in word.(1:13:18) No, you know, I know it’s it’s certainly an American thing or a Western thought of of (1:13:25) the whole music. (1:13:26) I think music is shared more openly on different applications outside of the U.S. (1:13:33) and the copyright laws here in the U.S. are strictly enforced via the hand of, say, YouTube (1:13:39) that you folks are have struggled with or are, you know, and, you know, the way we’re (1:13:47) struggling on YouTube, we’re calling out the Zionist agenda, COVID, everything they got (1:13:52) wrong for the last 30 years. (1:13:54) Is that wait, we’re on trouble.(1:13:55) Are you talking about copyright stuff? (1:13:57) I know. (1:13:58) I know. (1:13:58) I’m just saying newsflash.(1:14:02) Everybody’s in trouble on YouTube. (1:14:04) Even though I have expressed permission from Roman to use his songs, it still flags as (1:14:10) a copyright thing on my YouTube channel. (1:14:12) Right.(1:14:13) How does it? (1:14:14) That’s that’s interesting. (1:14:15) I am. (1:14:17) How can I put this? (1:14:20) OK, so I’m I’m involved in a software that is a social media site.(1:14:28) It’s dindot social. (1:14:29) And where I’ve been, it has a DAO, a decentralized autonomous organization, which then voted (1:14:35) in a leadership position and then voted for the name or the title of emperor, then voted (1:14:41) me as the emperor. (1:14:43) So technically, gentlemen, you probably should refer to me as emperor.(1:14:47) So that’s where that comes from. (1:14:49) And then you took over the show, according to Zach. (1:14:52) So we’re in trouble.(1:14:53) The point I’m trying to make here is that. (1:14:57) We took we had somebody that was on dindot social who was a musician and create a song (1:15:06) which we bought it from them and it was made into what it’s called an NFT, a non fungible (1:15:13) token. (1:15:14) So we have proof of ownership of that music.(1:15:17) And because we want to do that, want to display the technology blockchain, but also because (1:15:23) we’re we’re worldwide, we we’re the software is distributed worldwide. (1:15:28) Right. (1:15:29) So people are logging in from all over the world.(1:15:31) And when that music plays, it’s going to play worldwide. (1:15:34) So we didn’t want we want to protect us from copyright that way within the US. (1:15:39) But we have to think outside of just our boundary here.(1:15:43) People use different applications and are tying into different music. (1:15:47) And unfortunately, musicians around the world aren’t being properly (1:15:53) paid for the use of their their music in other countries where it’s much more enforced here (1:16:00) in the US on platforms like, say, YouTube or or I’m sure Rumble as well. (1:16:07) So we are in the process of building a a utility function that’s going to allow for video (1:16:16) streaming for those people who’ve been canceled or censored around the world.(1:16:21) And the concept of music, how do we handle intellectual property with music? (1:16:28) And there’s kind of a divide, a cut amongst the founders of this idea and bringing in (1:16:33) new investors. (1:16:34) Do we just do it and not compensate them? (1:16:39) Or do we find who the real artist is and pay directly to the artist where sometimes the (1:16:46) artist has already sold the music to Sony or to whomever? (1:16:51) And the artist is getting those sticky. (1:16:53) That gets so sticky because I know because I spoke with Brendan Brown, a witness, and (1:16:59) they don’t have Teenage Dirtbag, the original recording.(1:17:02) The master tapes got lost while they were fighting to get their stuff back. (1:17:07) All their stuff got lost by Sony and they literally they wrote an album called Suck (1:17:14) Phony just literally because of that. (1:17:17) Countless stories like that.(1:17:19) Wow, that’s that’s interesting. (1:17:20) Yeah. (1:17:21) So the idea that the idea came from one of the people in the founding founders here in (1:17:27) this concept was let’s go back and find who the artist is originally and pay directly (1:17:32) to that estate or that individual and screw them because we’re talking about borderless, (1:17:41) decentralized platform.(1:17:43) But we want to make sure that the individual for the music is properly compensated. (1:17:49) And you’re stuck to an IP address. (1:17:51) Now, we don’t know how it’s going to play out.(1:17:53) What’s that? (1:17:54) And you’re stuck to an IP address in another country that they’re going to try to block (1:17:58) you from being from accessing your app, right? (1:18:01) You know what I mean? (1:18:01) I’m just saying that’s how governments are going to work. (1:18:04) Or bitcoins will be used. (1:18:06) And yeah, so there’ll be different ways to access it.(1:18:09) So that’s what I’m involved in right now. (1:18:13) And so this was something that we had talked about not too far. (1:18:17) And then someone just spoke up and said, well, why don’t we just pay the artist directly? (1:18:23) You know, I once again, it is a great idea, but it doesn’t solve the problem because of (1:18:28) those other laws that that gets win to the company that has the team like, whoa, that, (1:18:33) you know, you don’t get to do that.(1:18:35) Trust me, I know the Don Kings in the world. (1:18:37) I’ve seen them. (1:18:38) I’ve come across.(1:18:40) But there is no company. (1:18:43) There is no right organization. (1:18:45) There is no central control.(1:18:47) It’s completely decentralized. (1:18:49) So who are they going to sue? (1:18:52) That’s beautiful. (1:18:52) And yeah, and that’s a beautiful thing.(1:18:56) So any last thoughts on music before I switch on Zach’s point? (1:19:00) Or yeah, think about podcasts. (1:19:02) I mean, almost every podcast is just put out there for free. (1:19:05) You know, I can go listen to any podcast I want all the time.(1:19:09) And some people will feel strongly enough that they like it. (1:19:12) They pay for it. (1:19:13) People have Patreon or Locals.(1:19:15) Drop the MassPod.locals.com by the way. (1:19:18) MassPod.locals.com (1:19:19) Go subscribe. (1:19:21) But, you know, people, if you’re doing a good enough job, people will recognize it.(1:19:26) And, you know, maybe it’s not as much as if you charge, but it’s just, you know, that (1:19:33) the incentive to want to reward an artist for content that you like (1:19:37) does not disappear without these laws. (1:19:40) So there is something to be said for that. (1:19:44) Very nice.(1:19:46) So I’ve got a meta question coming off of Zach’s point. (1:19:49) It doesn’t matter. (1:19:50) AI is taking over music.(1:19:53) Have you guys heard some of these things? (1:19:55) Yeah. Oh, yeah. (1:19:56) Pop.(1:19:56) I mean, we’re talking pop hits that would be number one hits (1:20:00) because they just analyze the structure of a song. (1:20:03) And they’re all the same, everybody. (1:20:06) Even, what is it? (1:20:08) Dave Grohl talks about it.(1:20:09) It’s like you start with a chorus. (1:20:11) It’s like chorus, verse, chorus, chorus, verse, chorus, verse, verse, bridge, chorus. (1:20:16) You know, he’s got it down.(1:20:18) Dude looks like a lady. (1:20:19) He’s loving an elevator. (1:20:20) He used Aerosmith as a good example.(1:20:22) Dude looks like a lady. (1:20:23) Starts with a chorus. (1:20:25) Loving an elevator.(1:20:25) Starts with a chorus. (1:20:26) Then he goes through the format. (1:20:28) So we’ve seen music do it.(1:20:29) Now, humans have a rhythm, right? (1:20:32) Certain frequencies resonate with us. (1:20:35) Certain chords hit us. (1:20:37) We get weird feelings.(1:20:38) If we get ominous music, our hair stands up. (1:20:40) Or if we hear happy music, right? (1:20:42) So we know what triggers us in that way. (1:20:45) But my question is about creativity.(1:20:49) Let’s shift the paradigm. (1:20:50) I’m going to try to shift the paradigm for you, if I will, William. (1:20:53) I’ve had experiences.(1:20:54) I think you guys, I’ve shared both of that where I’ve had a bad car accident (1:20:58) and something happened and I’ve had stuff happen. (1:21:00) What if none of those ideas are ours anyway? (1:21:06) They’re there. (1:21:07) They’re just there.(1:21:08) They’re all, every single idea is in this, to your point, like ether. (1:21:12) It’s a frequency or a whatever that, it’s like the law of attraction. (1:21:18) People do not come to you during the law of attraction.(1:21:22) You align with the people. (1:21:26) Like people, they reverse it. (1:21:28) You know what I’m saying? (1:21:29) Like the law of attraction is not to bring you, bring people to you.(1:21:32) It’s that you align with the way your flow of your current life is going. (1:21:37) You know what I mean? (1:21:38) It’s like aligning with the current, right? (1:21:41) So from a meta point, what if these ideas are just there that we are privileged (1:21:47) and honored as Homo sapiens to tap into every once in a while? (1:21:52) What do you guys think about that? (1:21:54) That’s what ideas are. (1:21:55) That’s what inspiration is.(1:21:57) So what you’re saying is ideas were already written. (1:22:00) We’re just rewriting them. (1:22:03) Yeah, in that way, or they’re all there already.(1:22:07) Out in the ether, right? (1:22:09) Yeah, like not an Akashic record. (1:22:11) I don’t want to get too woo, but I mean, you know, there is that weird thing where (1:22:15) how does this person wake up in the middle of the night from a dream (1:22:19) and have this muse run through them, you know, for example? (1:22:26) Yeah, and then should you own that idea? (1:22:28) Should you have ownership of it? (1:22:31) Yeah, and with that, as we are human beings, and once again, (1:22:34) I’m not socialist and all this stuff, guys. (1:22:36) I’m all about property rights and everything.(1:22:38) But if we’re talking about this as a human greatness (1:22:41) or making for prosperity for everyone, (1:22:45) we’re just privileged to the people that get those ideas are privileged to have them (1:22:49) and they should just freely share them anyway. (1:22:52) Now you’re touching on that moral and ethical point (1:22:55) that I was talking about a little bit earlier. (1:22:57) It’s a very strong word.(1:22:59) Yeah, right. (1:22:59) But I’m also trying to shift our mindset of how what we do see is moral. (1:23:03) Because if it’s not your idea, if you’re just the one able to access it, (1:23:08) it was never yours to begin with.(1:23:10) It’s the world’s to get. (1:23:12) And I’m not one of those guys. (1:23:14) I’m just pushing, putting another point out there.(1:23:17) No, I think it’s a legitimate point. (1:23:20) Because I remember in college, taking a creative writing class (1:23:26) and having to write poetry and going back after the fact (1:23:29) and said, where did that come from? (1:23:32) Wow. (1:23:34) Not trying to stroke my own ego or whatever.(1:23:36) I was like, I was amazed the next day. (1:23:38) I’m rereading this. (1:23:39) I’m going, where in the world I get this? (1:23:41) And we hear about artists all the time say, (1:23:43) I just came to me in a song and it popped into my head.(1:23:48) It came from somewhere. (1:23:50) And we’ve heard this countless times. (1:23:52) And I’m sure we’ve all experienced that, that creative genius, that creative moment.(1:23:57) So it seems to point to that it’s out there. (1:24:05) And which would then go to the next point. (1:24:09) If I’m stealing somebody’s intellectual property to profit myself (1:24:14) and steal from them and not pay them, as the law is so written today (1:24:21) or currently in our country, well, maybe after the fact, (1:24:27) let’s call it judgment time or day.(1:24:29) We’re not going to get down that. (1:24:31) But in some way, will we be judged on those actions? (1:24:37) And I don’t know, forced to relive it. (1:24:41) That’s a great point.(1:24:42) I mean, it could get into the spiritual. (1:24:44) Really spiritual in this case is God. (1:24:46) You know, God will judge your actions here anyway.(1:24:49) So you have to live a moral life anyway, right? (1:24:51) Right. Yeah. (1:24:52) What are your thoughts on that, Jason? (1:24:53) I mean, I threw something really super crazy out there.(1:24:56) I mean, for sure. (1:24:58) Yeah, I think to answer that, you have to get into like, what is consciousness? (1:25:02) And that’s a whole rabbit hole we could get into. (1:25:05) But I do think, and this is just my opinion, but I think that (1:25:11) morally, as a human, to be a good person, whether you believe in God or not, (1:25:16) whether you believe in a judgment day or not, morally, (1:25:20) it is your responsibility to make the world better.(1:25:24) And I think that, you know, if that means sharing your ideas, (1:25:29) which almost always it does, do it. (1:25:32) I think do it and you’re going to make it better for you. (1:25:35) Just the mere fact of making the world better for other people (1:25:39) makes the world better for you.(1:25:40) That’s really what I believe. (1:25:42) And even if making the world better is just you staying out of the world’s way (1:25:47) and not making it worse, not actively making it worse. (1:25:51) Like, hey, I’m just going to stay in the corner.(1:25:53) I’m still going to be a quiet neighbor. (1:25:55) I’m still going to be courteous and respectful and all that, (1:25:58) but just not be maybe even engaged or something. (1:26:00) So we can allow that too, as well.(1:26:02) As long as they’re still within that range, right? (1:26:06) Yeah, I don’t know if that sounds like hippy dippy or something, (1:26:08) but I really think that kind of comes from the Jordan Peterson stuff (1:26:13) we were talking about the other day, (1:26:14) where it’s like, you know, you have a responsibility, (1:26:18) you have a duty as a human, as a man to do that, (1:26:22) to take care of yourself, take care of other people, (1:26:24) your family in particular. (1:26:26) But then if you can, if you are able to help the world in some way, (1:26:30) you need to do it. (1:26:31) And if you shrink from that responsibility, (1:26:34) that does not make you a good person, to say the least.(1:26:38) And I would agree. (1:26:40) And it’s like, it makes me think about that too, (1:26:42) is like, as a man, say you’re trying to provide for your family, (1:26:45) though you write this book. (1:26:47) Maybe, can we protect the person for a year or two? (1:26:49) I mean, can we just put time limits on it? (1:26:52) Are those some solutions to think about? (1:26:54) That it’s not 100 years, but like, hey, let this guy sell his, (1:26:59) you know, that run, you know, promoted as much.(1:27:01) After a year, we’re pretty much open. (1:27:03) That’s open source or something. (1:27:05) Well, wow.(1:27:06) I’m going to get really deep here is the value of money is, (1:27:10) money is just a placeholder for the energy that was spent (1:27:14) and the reward for the energy spent. (1:27:17) So, you know, I think humanity needs to take another look at money. (1:27:24) And certainly money doesn’t need to be minted (1:27:27) from the hands of a centralized government.(1:27:31) We’ve already created sound money that just we’re not using it yet. (1:27:35) And I’m pointing again to a blockchain-based type money system (1:27:40) without third parties, without a centralized system (1:27:45) that can be fairly distributed and be honest and pure in that respect. (1:27:50) So we really got to go back to the individual writing the book (1:27:55) and the author to feed his family.(1:27:58) We want the best for the family and for humanity and for the individual. (1:28:03) We have to keep in mind, though, writing that book, that creative, (1:28:09) shall we, let’s say the nonfiction books are probably going to be taken over by AI, (1:28:14) where the creative voice that comes out from the page (1:28:19) is probably still something that AI is not going to be able to create. (1:28:23) Because AI still has that initial base level program that says, (1:28:28) well, borrow a little bit here from Shakespeare (1:28:30) and borrow a little bit here from Thoreau and Edgar Allen Poe (1:28:35) and mix this together.(1:28:38) So it’s creative from a new thought from the ether, shall we say. (1:28:44) You also think that humans do that, though, (1:28:46) because there’s definitely at least some extent where humans are like, (1:28:49) oh, I like this. (1:28:50) I like that.(1:28:50) Hemingway, Shakespeare, I’m going to pull from that and make it my own. (1:28:55) I mean, is that the part where it’s only humans are doing it right now, (1:28:59) where they say, I’m going to make it my own? (1:29:00) There you go. (1:29:02) There’s my next argument for IP.(1:29:05) Every author now owes money to the past author (1:29:09) for their intellectual property that they put forward. (1:29:12) OK, when the Babylon Bee was very early. (1:29:15) I don’t know.(1:29:16) It wasn’t Babylon Bee. (1:29:16) When The Onion was in its prime. (1:29:19) You guys remember The Onion? (1:29:21) Oh, my God.(1:29:22) They had one where it’s Bill Gates, copyrights, ones and zeros. (1:29:27) And I thought that was the funniest freaking thing. (1:29:30) Literally had to pay for everyone.(1:29:32) It’s zero. (1:29:32) It’s binary code. (1:29:33) I mean, come on.(1:29:34) It’s just like was the funniest headline I’ve ever seen. (1:29:38) It was just so good. (1:29:40) I remember when The Drudge Report was good, too.(1:29:43) Back in the day when I was a hardcore conservative Republican and pro-Iraq war. (1:29:50) Oh, boy, was I so wrong. (1:29:53) We’ve all been.(1:29:53) I apologize. (1:29:54) All right. (1:29:55) Do we have any final thoughts on IP? (1:29:57) Because let’s go into that.(1:29:58) If we’re going to do that, William, we’re going to do it. (1:29:59) If we have 15 minutes left to just slam on Douglas Murray right now, I’m happy to do it. (1:30:04) It’s not even a slam.(1:30:06) I really admire his mind. (1:30:08) I don’t understand how he can think what he thinks. (1:30:11) I don’t understand how he thinks that imperialism is the way to go.(1:30:16) He’s a self-proclaimed interventionist. (1:30:18) Anyway, IP, gentlemen, let’s put a bow on it. (1:30:22) Any final thoughts on the intellectual property? (1:30:25) Yeah, for me, I just to tag on to what William said.(1:30:28) We’re all kind of building off of what everybody has done in the past. (1:30:33) And whether or not you’re even conscious of it, that’s true. (1:30:37) Because what other people? (1:30:39) You know, the people that you look at pulled from other people.(1:30:42) And those people pulled from other people. (1:30:44) You know, they took ideas, they expanded on them, they built them out. (1:30:48) And there’s no escaping that.(1:30:50) Like, as a human society, we are social animals. (1:30:53) There’s no getting away from that. (1:30:55) And to enforce down to the level of this is my idea.(1:30:59) You stole it from me. (1:31:00) But I think the costs far outweigh the benefits. (1:31:05) Okay, 100%.(1:31:06) Yeah, and I do think that everything created as a whole benefits humanity. (1:31:13) And makes generally everyone more prosperous. (1:31:17) It’s kind of like more information to come up with the best outcome.(1:31:22) Everything brought out, every idea, every song. (1:31:25) And you can disagree with the feeling of a song. (1:31:27) But why would you want it to not exist? (1:31:29) I want Bjork to exist regardless of how shrieky she sounds.(1:31:34) Yeah, I love this Bjork song. (1:31:36) But I want to just tweak it a little bit and add my own way. (1:31:40) And you make a better song.(1:31:42) Great. (1:31:43) I just stole it, man. (1:31:46) All right.(1:31:47) So I like this shout out to Justin Holmes. (1:31:51) He’s got a lot of thought-provoking statements here. (1:31:54) Justin’s a really good guy, William.(1:31:56) Would you like to read that, William? (1:31:57) I’d like to address that. (1:31:59) I think that agorism is to libertarians what utopia is to liberals. (1:32:05) Both rely on the belief that humanity will move beyond their own selfish interests.(1:32:11) And because of that, neither are attainable. (1:32:14) All right. (1:32:15) Well, the first thought is no, not even close.(1:32:22) Libertarians absolutely know how trash humans are. (1:32:25) That’s the whole point. (1:32:26) The problem with liberals is they want to use an outside third party to tell you how to live your (1:32:32) life.(1:32:32) They want to control your behavior. (1:32:34) That is not what libertarians believe. (1:32:36) Now, libertarians may think that people should be and can control their lives.(1:32:41) And sometimes they can’t. (1:32:42) But part of that libertarian part is if you can’t, that’s on you. (1:32:45) And you just aren’t part of the tribe.(1:32:47) That’s just kind of part of how agorism voluntarism works. (1:32:50) So that’s my first thoughts. (1:32:51) I’d love for you guys to chime in on that.(1:32:55) Yeah. (1:32:56) So, okay. (1:32:59) Libertarians maybe do not understand.(1:33:03) How do I want to say this? (1:33:05) Agorists slash anarchists. (1:33:07) I kind of put them in the same category. (1:33:11) We do definitely understand that humanity will always have selfish interests.(1:33:18) That is always the case. (1:33:20) What we understand is that when you put those humans with selfish interests in power over (1:33:28) other people, they will always abuse it. (1:33:30) Always.(1:33:31) Every time. (1:33:33) If you don’t have a… (1:33:35) So the argument against this is that if you don’t have any control, people will judge you (1:33:40) go wild and start killing each other or stealing from each other and all this. (1:33:45) But there are always ways to organize yourselves.(1:33:51) Sorry, my dogs are barking. (1:33:53) There are always ways to organize yourselves. (1:33:56) Involuntary ways that allow for some kind of collective action.(1:34:03) I don’t even know if that’s the right word. (1:34:05) Rules not rulers. (1:34:07) That’s all we’re saying.(1:34:08) Yeah. (1:34:09) Rules not rulers, right? (1:34:10) It’s kind of what we’re saying, but it’s a great point, Justin. (1:34:14) Yes.(1:34:14) Great point. (1:34:16) And once again, these are the challenges. (1:34:18) These are the questions people ask.(1:34:19) But we have been grown up in this mindset of there needs to be somebody to do it. (1:34:24) There needs to be somebody to enforce something over all of us. (1:34:27) And then the first question we just go is why? (1:34:31) I mean, and then that literally breaks it all up.(1:34:33) I mean, once you start doing that, you have to really hurt and put yourself through a lot (1:34:36) of pain, but it’s worth it. (1:34:38) And the why’s turn into what ifs, and then the what ifs turn into sound solutions. (1:34:44) Yeah.(1:34:44) I mean, it’s funny, William. (1:34:46) You speak about it too. (1:34:47) And Jason, I don’t know if you were a neoconnish like William and I were, but I had a t-shirt (1:34:52) that read, Hey Sedan, this scuds for you.(1:34:54) I was all up in that. (1:34:55) I enlisted at 17. (1:34:57) I failed the physical, but I went through the whole thing, wanted to serve this country.(1:35:02) I look back and thank goodness I didn’t in that way because of where I would have been. (1:35:05) But oh my gosh, I look back at that and go, why would I, why did I cheer that on so much? (1:35:12) And why did I believe the lies? (1:35:13) And once you pick at that, it just all unravels, right? (1:35:17) Yeah. (1:35:18) There’s a good saying that’s like without government people, there’s a chance people (1:35:24) will steal and be bad to each other.(1:35:27) But with government, it’s a guarantee. (1:35:29) So I mean, it’s always a trade off, right? (1:35:32) There’s never, there’s never a utopia. (1:35:33) It’s never perfect.(1:35:35) There will always be people that try to take advantage of other people. (1:35:39) But you have to look at the trade-offs with government, especially with the massive government (1:35:45) that is the United States government. (1:35:47) It’s guaranteed that bad things will happen.(1:35:50) It’s guaranteed that they will steal from you. (1:35:51) It’s guaranteed that they will start wars with other countries without asking any of (1:35:56) us what we think. (1:35:59) And so you have to look at that and figure out which one might be a little bit better.(1:36:05) So that’s, that’s all right. (1:36:07) And Justin’s got this question, but we got to table this stuff for another day because (1:36:12) the answer is private, but that’s a whole, yeah, it goes down a rabbit hole, but we (1:36:17) can get into that as a whole other thing. (1:36:18) But let me put it this way.(1:36:20) Would you rather be direct payer of the person who enforces your laws? (1:36:24) Or would you rather pay some third party person who pays somebody who enforces those laws (1:36:28) for you? (1:36:29) I’d like to argue that I like to be in direct control of that person’s paycheck. (1:36:32) There will always be rule breakers. (1:36:35) No, not everyone will suddenly start caring about the common good or the greater good.(1:36:39) They won’t. (1:36:40) But in living out your own interests, you need to collaborate with other people. (1:36:46) If you want to build something bigger, you need others to help you.(1:36:50) That doesn’t mean you need to force them. (1:36:52) You know, if it’s mutually beneficial, you’re building something bigger. (1:36:58) And that’s the thing is I think we can go into the tribe number, the Dunbar number.(1:37:01) And I really think that we can go Dunbar times X because I think it is scalable with the (1:37:07) technology we have. (1:37:08) I just don’t think it’s scalable to million. (1:37:10) I don’t know the number, but I think it’s scalable outside of like 150, if that makes (1:37:16) sense.(1:37:17) And Justin, I want to say these are not crazy questions. (1:37:19) These are very legitimate, very understandable things that we all went through. (1:37:23) And it takes some research, some thinking to get there.(1:37:28) And maybe it’s something we could talk about. (1:37:30) But I don’t want to life experiences, too. (1:37:33) Yeah, I don’t want to say that these are bad questions.(1:37:36) These are very valid questions that I was still on us. (1:37:40) They still want us because I still ask myself these things. (1:37:43) It’s like, yeah, maybe it does make more sense to have X. (1:37:46) And maybe, yeah, in this one case.(1:37:48) But you’re like, you can’t. (1:37:49) You have to almost be absolutist about it. (1:37:51) Yeah, you almost have to be absolutist because it the crack allows for the more.(1:37:57) And that’s to your point, Jason. (1:37:59) It always grows. (1:38:00) The entropy always grows, I think.(1:38:03) Going back to your initial point about Joe Rogan, Dave Smith having the debate with Murray. (1:38:11) What’s his name? (1:38:12) Yeah, this Douglas Murray. (1:38:15) You do not know who Douglas Murray is.(1:38:17) You know, no, no, clearly don’t understand. (1:38:21) No, you don’t understand. (1:38:22) You have not been there.(1:38:23) You don’t even know. (1:38:25) Well done. (1:38:27) Well done.(1:38:29) It’s typical. (1:38:32) Wow. (1:38:35) I’ve just felt like everything he was saying was right out of the liberal playbook and (1:38:40) wasn’t original.(1:38:42) And what kept circling, circling back to when he was challenged, he was in altering what (1:38:50) he believed he had already said or changing. (1:38:52) And it was just a big circle jerk. (1:38:55) I felt like there was one comment that was left.(1:38:58) He says, let me give you my first 40 minute take on the on the podcast. (1:39:02) And he repeats everything Murray says. (1:39:05) And it was it was ridiculous.(1:39:08) I just I felt like I was trying to be little be belittled by some British aristocrat who (1:39:18) really didn’t have a good feel or understanding of the topic. (1:39:25) That’s how I was. (1:39:26) I was having a hard time listening to it.(1:39:32) And I’m a big fan of Dave Smith. (1:39:33) I was having a hard time listening to the podcast. (1:39:37) Yeah.(1:39:38) And I’ve been a fan of Douglas Murray, too. (1:39:39) I’ve got his books back here. (1:39:43) Yeah.(1:39:43) What is it? (1:39:45) What? (1:39:47) Oh, yeah, I’ve got a crowd up here. (1:39:49) And it’s a crowd. (1:39:50) That’s the one I thought that Douglas Murray with Gene.(1:39:54) Yeah, absolutely. (1:39:55) So it’s very weird to see. (1:39:57) And I like 1% of me kind of gets his point.(1:40:01) Like, we want to have people that are experts about things. (1:40:06) We want people to know what they’re talking about. (1:40:09) We don’t want just random people coming in.(1:40:12) You know, like, if we pulled Mark off the street and had him talk about what war policy (1:40:18) we should have in the United States, like, no, you don’t want that. (1:40:21) But then you also got to think about, like, why do we even have a war policy? (1:40:26) This is crazy. (1:40:27) Yeah, go to the root.(1:40:29) Yeah. (1:40:31) Well said. (1:40:32) Yeah, I tend to listen to podcasts at 2x or if I can get two and a half or 3x.(1:40:39) I got one and a half hours to get through that piece of shit conversation. (1:40:44) And I’m really sorry. (1:40:46) Thank you so much for giving you guys both made it about 40.(1:40:49) And you guys both told me, like, I’m out. (1:40:51) I’m tapping out. (1:40:52) I’m like, I’m pushing.(1:40:53) I’m pushing. (1:40:54) It’s not any different, but I’m pushing. (1:40:56) I mean, and I don’t want to clip it.(1:40:58) It’s literally this is knee jerk reaction. (1:41:00) It just happened or just dropped today. (1:41:02) But literally, Dave Smith has a conversation with Douglas Murray.(1:41:05) The first thing Douglas Murray attacks Dave Smith about is Darryl Cooper. (1:41:12) What is he? (1:41:14) Where does he have any need to go at? (1:41:17) And then and I’m sorry, Jason, you and I talked about the woke right, the woke left and how (1:41:21) the woke right has done this. (1:41:23) He’s like, you can’t platform these people.(1:41:26) You can’t give them any time on your podcast. (1:41:29) And then Dave would go, wait, to say, I can’t say that. (1:41:32) He goes, well, no, you can’t not say it.(1:41:34) No, I didn’t say you can’t say it because the other side is, no, we just need to shut (1:41:38) it the fuck down. (1:41:39) And I’m like, what is this exact mirror thing that we just went through with the left? (1:41:46) It’s the exact same shit. (1:41:49) And I’m over it.(1:41:51) I’m just like, I thought we had solutions. (1:41:53) I thought we were allowed to say retarded again. (1:41:57) When Murray, when Murray, Dave Smith makes a point and then Murray turns to Joe Rogan, (1:42:04) discounting his point.(1:42:06) You don’t see this as the problem. (1:42:08) You’re having like a comedian on the show on your podcast. (1:42:13) Are you a comedian or are you a world historian? (1:42:16) Yeah, he’s like triangulating.(1:42:18) I mean, he uses every tactic to belittle and to act like, to act like you can’t have an (1:42:26) opinion because you haven’t physically stepped there. (1:42:29) I understand that someone who was in that ambulance, the one where 15 people got shot (1:42:36) to death. (1:42:36) Yeah, that’s an experience maybe you don’t want to go through.(1:42:39) Maybe you don’t want to go there because you’re already a fucking target for even talking about (1:42:45) Hamas or Israel and, and Mossad in America. (1:42:49) You’re already targeted by talking about him here. (1:42:52) Maybe you don’t want to go there.(1:42:53) I kind of don’t, I don’t, I kind of understand why Dave doesn’t want to step foot there. (1:42:57) None of us want to step foot in a place where our own government could bomb us within or, (1:43:02) or our biggest ally could shoot us just cause for, to, to, to, uh, what is it? (1:43:08) To range their, their rifle. (1:43:10) You know what I mean? (1:43:11) Like it’s silly.(1:43:12) Yeah. (1:43:13) Yeah. (1:43:14) Plus if you go there, they’re going to show you what they want you to see, right? (1:43:18) If you’re collaborating with Israeli government, they’re going to show you exactly what they (1:43:23) want so that you will perpetuate their narrative.(1:43:27) Right. (1:43:32) I don’t know where he thought Dave sold out, but the good news is Dave is going to apologize (1:43:37) when the United States invades Iran. (1:43:40) Cause I, I, I do want to share this.(1:43:44) Dave Smith, Clint, uh, Liberty Lockpod, right? (1:43:49) Clint Russell. (1:43:51) And Scott Horton. (1:43:52) And I can’t say single handedly, but whatever the menage a trois of them, they compelled (1:43:57) me to vote no to this year for the first time in my entire adult, in my entire life, since (1:44:03) 18, I voted Bush.(1:44:05) And then whatever the 90, the doll and then McCain and Romney and Trump, Trump. (1:44:10) And I voted no to this year. (1:44:12) They compelled me to change my mind as I was deprogramming for all that time.(1:44:16) And the last month they’re like, well, we can’t have Kamala. (1:44:21) So we have to vote Trump. (1:44:22) Now that is a very logical, very logical concept.(1:44:26) And that’s what everybody told me. (1:44:28) As I was saying, I have to dig my heels. (1:44:31) I have made my decision that I am not, I voted Trump twice and I just cannot, because I do (1:44:37) not see what he’s telling you.(1:44:39) I don’t understand what you think he’s, I just, it just didn’t feel right. (1:44:43) So watching that happen, I’m, I’m not disappointed. (1:44:47) Like everyone should make their choice.(1:44:49) And yeah, Kamala winning would not be, would, would definitely not be an, any better outcome (1:44:55) by any means. (1:44:56) This is a net better outcome net, not worse outcome. (1:44:59) I’ll say that.(1:45:00) But watching, watching them just do this thing and just become, you know, the woke left becoming (1:45:07) the woke right. (1:45:07) And all this stuff, it’s like, what is happening to us? (1:45:10) What, what’s going on? (1:45:12) Talk me off the ledge. (1:45:15) Idiocracy.(1:45:16) That’s why I’m helping you off the ledge, but jump. (1:45:21) Yeah. (1:45:22) Yeah.(1:45:22) That’s one area where I definitely disagree with Dave and, and Clint is voting for Trump (1:45:27) was not, was not it, man. (1:45:30) It’s just, and he’s proven it. (1:45:32) I think that he, he freed Ross.(1:45:35) Great. (1:45:36) That’s awesome. (1:45:37) I can’t A plus for that, but everything else has been bad.(1:45:42) To his general credit, he’s given people things that he said he would for their support. (1:45:48) The problem with that is someone with the last name of Adelson happened to give the (1:45:53) biggest support, which means Gaza becomes B front property or something. (1:46:00) I don’t know.(1:46:00) It’s like, are we kidding? (1:46:01) Are we kidding ourselves here? (1:46:03) And that’s why politics sucks and democracy sucks and government sucks. (1:46:09) It’s just, it can be bought so easily. (1:46:11) Like it’s, it’s, it’s not surprising that it can be bought, but it’s surprising how (1:46:16) cheap it is.(1:46:18) I guess I like to torture myself because I’m a geopolitical, I don’t, I just love that (1:46:24) stuff. (1:46:25) And, and it’s torture because especially as an, you know, as an agorist, I just look (1:46:30) at it and I’m about to keep watching. (1:46:33) If you don’t expect anything good to come out of it, then yeah, it’s kind of fun to (1:46:36) follow the drama, right? (1:46:38) Right.(1:46:39) The concept or the idea behind is just, you know, sit back and have a nice whiskey and (1:46:46) enjoy watching the collapse happen. (1:46:48) But I’m having a hard time finding that enjoyment. (1:46:51) Actually, it gets you to play enjoyment.(1:46:54) You mean mushroom clouds in the distance, slowly approaching, then I’m all for it. (1:46:59) But if I, right. (1:47:01) Yeah.(1:47:01) And I happen to live in a city in Texas where I’m sure we would be a target. (1:47:08) And I’m thinking, wow, I didn’t really think this one of those first strike cities (1:47:12) there, William. (1:47:13) I wouldn’t, didn’t really think this one through, did I? (1:47:18) I watched the postman, Tom, Tom Petty, uh, caresses the, uh, Hoover dam and, uh, in (1:47:24) one of those zip lines.(1:47:25) So it’s pretty cool. (1:47:27) Well, any, anything else we have? (1:47:29) First of all, we’ve had more than 50 people today. (1:47:32) Join us on a Thursday night.(1:47:34) We are absolutely nobody. (1:47:36) First of all, Jason’s completely nobody. (1:47:38) I mean, I would never, I didn’t even know his name until like a couple of days.(1:47:41) Anyone who’s nobody. (1:47:43) Most of all, it’s me. (1:47:45) Well, what does that tell you? (1:47:47) If I have the emperor status and I can’t even, you know, I can just get you over 50.(1:47:52) That doesn’t say much. (1:47:54) No, you own it. (1:47:55) You own them all.(1:47:56) You, you have the intellectual property. (1:47:59) So that’s, that’s pretty good. (1:48:01) That’s, that’s really good.(1:48:02) And, and thank you so much, Justin, Zach, AWOL, Aaron, everybody who chimed in all the (1:48:08) questions, no, there are zero bad questions. (1:48:11) They’re all phenomenal and they are hard to break through and they might not be right, (1:48:17) but I’m, I’ve, I think we’ve proven that many of the other solutions have proven wrong for (1:48:21) sure. (1:48:22) So maybe we should try something else anyway, but before we call it a night, we’ve been (1:48:26) so blessed to have our first guest.(1:48:28) I am for, I am we that’s I am the number four. (1:48:34) I am W E on X. (1:48:36) Is that correct? (1:48:37) Yes. (1:48:38) Or it’s 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1. (1:48:41) Well, I know there’s a copyright and we can’t afford that.(1:48:44) We can’t afford to put that. (1:48:45) I got it from Bill Gates. (1:48:48) Tell us, tell us all your stuff.(1:48:49) How can we get ahold of you? (1:48:50) Tell us all your great stuff before we call it a night. (1:48:52) Thank you. (1:48:53) First of all, thanks.(1:48:54) You guys got a great chat. (1:48:55) Great questions popped up. (1:48:57) Appreciate that.(1:48:58) And thank you again for inviting me here. (1:49:00) I really enjoyed it. (1:49:01) Great conversation.(1:49:02) And I long for these conversations with like-minded individuals. (1:49:07) I don’t have them in my personal life so much. (1:49:10) So I appreciate you both for having me on again.(1:49:13) Much gratitude. (1:49:15) A best place to follow me probably is on X. (1:49:19) I’m not a big social media guy, even though I’ve now invested pretty heavily in this (1:49:24) other social media app while dim.social. (1:49:26) So we’re getting it going and then hopefully adding video. (1:49:30) But like I said, that’s a decentralized application.(1:49:35) Dim.social all it takes is an email. (1:49:36) Make up an email. (1:49:37) You can even post over there anonymously.(1:49:40) Just getting it rolled out. (1:49:43) And so I’m retired. (1:49:46) So I’m not even supposed to be taking on additional projects, but I do anyway.(1:49:51) That keeps you young, trust me. (1:49:52) That’s what I’m happy. (1:49:54) Yeah.(1:49:55) And it doesn’t mean you’re in a spot, William. (1:49:58) You’re in another spot on the League of Friends. (1:50:00) We got a bunch.(1:50:01) We got five people usually coming together. (1:50:03) Okay, great. (1:50:04) I’ve watched that.(1:50:05) It’s been good. (1:50:07) And so anyway, you catch me there. (1:50:09) A lot of times I’ll do a podcast on Monday nights.(1:50:11) I don’t know. (1:50:12) It’s a post opposite your show with Litecoin Lisa. (1:50:15) We talk about all kinds of fun things like I have the right to rob your, steal your stuff.(1:50:20) It’s a take on, we all love it. (1:50:29) Sorry. (1:50:30) But anyway, follow me on X is best way to get it.(1:50:34) And I’m on the World Blockchain Roundtable. (1:50:37) It’s kind of a panel of experts on blockchain. (1:50:40) And that’s every Thursday morning, 10 a.m. Central.(1:50:44) Awesome. (1:50:44) It’s on the Legacy Write channel, yes? (1:50:47) Yeah, yeah. (1:50:48) Yeah, Legacy Write.(1:50:49) It’s with Legacy Write, Andrew, and all these great guys, Zach and Andrew. (1:50:53) Zach and Andrew, part of the four of us with Jason and myself as a friend. (1:50:57) We got our fifth.(1:50:58) There’s Sean. (1:50:58) He’ll be there. (1:50:59) Jason, please.(1:51:01) I mentioned on that stream, I will be starting MaskCoin. (1:51:04) So please, everybody go buy my token. (1:51:08) And I just copied that.(1:51:09) I’m making MaskCoin. (1:51:10) I will never have any coin. (1:51:12) I just made MaskCoin Square that’s half the cost of yours.(1:51:16) So I just took your ideas. (1:51:18) Yeah, but it sucks. (1:51:20) So you got to take that into account.(1:51:21) You drop the mask, I’ll pick it up. (1:51:23) How about that? (1:51:24) All right. (1:51:25) Hey, follow me at DropTheMaskPod on X. (1:51:27) And go to my locals, DropTheMaskPod.locals.com. (1:51:31) I am still working on a new kind of format for the show.(1:51:34) So stay tuned. (1:51:37) I can’t say when it’s coming. (1:51:39) I wanted to do it tomorrow.(1:51:40) I don’t know if that’s going to happen. (1:51:41) We’ll see. (1:51:43) But look at me.(1:51:44) Look at me right now. (1:51:46) You can do this, bro. (1:51:47) I saw some stuff.(1:51:49) I’m excited for you, man. (1:51:52) I’m hoping in some way I can Bogart on it in some way and steal your IP. (1:51:56) But no.(1:51:57) But seriously, it looks like such a great concept. (1:51:59) I don’t even know exactly all of it. (1:52:01) But I just have an idea just the way your mind works of what it’s going to be (1:52:04) and how awesome it’s going to be.(1:52:07) Just do it. (1:52:08) Don’t. (1:52:08) Don’t.(1:52:08) You’re overthinking. (1:52:09) I know you’re overthinking, all right. (1:52:10) I am definitely overthinking.(1:52:12) But that’s my MO. (1:52:14) I know it is. (1:52:15) But this is our job.(1:52:16) We’re in this together, man. (1:52:17) You can do this. (1:52:19) I’m here to encourage you.(1:52:21) And trust me, the great thing is when that first one sucks, the next one won’t suck as bad. (1:52:27) Absolutely. (1:52:27) And the first one won’t even suck.(1:52:29) So it’s even better. (1:52:29) It’s like that’s the beautiful part about it. (1:52:31) But so anyway.(1:52:33) Mark. (1:52:36) Will. (1:52:36) I am.(1:52:37) I am for I am WE on X. (1:52:40) We’ve got at drop the mask pod on X and on rumble. (1:52:46) It’s drop the mask dot locals dot com. (1:52:49) Drop the mask pod dot local dot com dot com.(1:52:52) Give me three bucks and nothing. (1:52:54) Follow him. (1:52:55) He’s he’s dropped the mask.(1:52:57) Just type drop the mask in the top of the rumble search. (1:52:59) That’s so awesome. (1:53:01) Thank you everyone for joining us again.(1:53:04) Another if by whiskey. (1:53:06) This was if by intellectual property with our special guest, William. (1:53:09) Now Monday, I still have no idea what we’re doing.(1:53:13) So it’s going to if by question mark. (1:53:16) It’s my question. (1:53:17) Yeah, we’ll think about it.(1:53:19) The good news is Jason and I work really well. (1:53:22) And we’ll brainstorm something and have something for you. (1:53:24) The bad news is it still will be Jason and I. (1:53:27) I have had no time this week, but I will over the weekend.(1:53:30) Now we’ll get some over the way. (1:53:32) We’ll get something together. (1:53:33) So we’re still brainstorming.(1:53:34) But thank you again, William. (1:53:36) Thank you so much for joining us, Sir. (1:53:37) Jason, as always.(1:53:39) This has been awesome, man. (1:53:41) Great collaboration. (1:53:42) We we do know that don’t don’t steal it.(1:53:44) But if by whiskey dot com is available. (1:53:47) So someone wants to buy it and sell it to us for $52,000. (1:53:52) Yeah, just don’t go daddy right now.(1:53:53) So anyway, or you can just buy it and gift it to us. (1:53:56) That’s a better way to do it. (1:53:57) So thank you so much, everyone.(1:53:59) Another if by whiskey. (1:54:00) Take care, everybody. (1:54:01) We got the awesome outro.(1:54:02) Do not turn this off. (1:54:04) This is Jason Roman’s music. (1:54:06) It’s awesome.(1:54:07) And we stole it from Roman. (1:54:09) So take that. (1:54:11) Here we go, everybody.