Mark welcomes Jason Fry for a chat. We talk knives, mental health, and national divorce.
Jason’s book: https://www.national-divorce.com/
Transcript:
(0:03) Hey, everybody, welcome to another Knocked Conscious Mark here. Welcome. I’ve got Jason.No this way. He’s this way. This is (0:11) Very good.How you doing? Jason fries joining us. He’s one of our friends that we have on the show (0:18) One of one of Jason’s things that he’s a famous for being on forge and fire. He was a finalist (0:23) So I’m sure we’ll talk about that Jason (0:25) I’ve never spoken with you, but all of my other friends that we’ve talked with we got a whole group of people (0:29) We got Zach.You’ve got Sean Collins. We’ve got Jason from drop the mask all those guys. We’re doing a panel tomorrow (0:36) So we’re gonna do that tomorrow at I think 5 p.m. Arizona time 7 p.m. Eastern.You’re in Central. You’re in Texas (0:42) Is that correct? I am indeed. Correct.Well, welcome to Knocked Conscious. Tell us a little about yourselves. Who are you and (0:49) Yeah, so my name is Jason Fry I am a lifelong Texan I (0:55) work in mental health (0:57) And that really looks a lot like writing papers and they do eventually make people’s lives better, right? (1:04) So it’s not not hopeless, but it’s writing papers.And so I have a couple of interesting hobbies to keep me from going crazy (1:11) So I I do a couple of big things one is I make knives (1:17) So I’ve been making knives for 16 years. You mentioned my 15 minutes of fame there (1:22) I was on forged and fire back in 2018. I was runner-up on that episode (1:27) If I turn my camera (1:29) Very nice right there (1:32) Right there.Is that it that I made? That’s it. That’s it. It’s called a key long G (1:38) It’s a Chinese halberd spear thing (1:42) Mine took up the world’s tiniest little bend and so I lost fair and square (1:47) You recall that one actually? (1:49) It was me.It’s spicy. Mike, you know my curly so (1:53) That was a fun experience where we’re all still friends we communicate some still see each other it shows and stuff (2:00) So it’s quite an adventure (2:03) So you still make knives, right? I still do I still do I’ve been doing that. Let’s say about 16 years and (2:09) I wanted to have written a book (2:12) That’s different to wanting to write one night.I choose those words. I wanted to have written a book (2:18) Well, maybe I’ll do it like my day job and I’ll just edit a bunch of other people’s stuff and take some credit kind of (2:24) so I (2:26) 17 authors and we collectively wrote 26 chapters. I think I had six of them (2:31) And I published my first book on knife making back in (2:36) 2019 think and cool parlayed that one quickly into a second knife making book (2:44) Which led to the commissioning of a third knife making book (2:47) So I’ve got Wow three knife making books in print.Yeah, I do a little bit right the trilogy (2:53) Yeah, they’re not connected except that I wrote them all (2:57) Nice, that’s cool. Got the three knife making books and I write for blade magazine a little bit (3:03) So, yeah, I’m on the board of the National Knife Makers Guild (3:07) So, I mean, I guess all of that makes me a real knife maker (3:11) I don’t know. I still all of that is true and I still make stuff in my backyard.So I balance it out, right? (3:19) I’m a knife user, but I don’t have any quality knives. So it’s right. I’m a good knife user, right? (3:25) Right.So that’s really cool. So mental health. Tell me is it a day job? (3:30) Is it something you can talk about because mental health is something I talk about on my show very often (3:34) So let me share about the part.What can you share about it? Yeah (3:38) Again, so I work for the state of Texas (3:42) We have 13 inpatient facilities for people with developmental disabilities. Okay now everybody knows or everybody should know (3:50) I’m gonna tell you that just because you have a developmental disability what they used to call retardation (3:55) They don’t call it that anymore, right? But just because you have a developmental disability doesn’t mean you have to live in an institution, right? (4:02) No, but I know very many people who are (4:05) Functioning exactly exactly (4:07) But if you have too much contact with the cops or too much contact with the doctors (4:14) Right, so either your medical needs are too complex or your behavioral needs are too complex (4:20) then a place like ours is is the it’s a solution because we have 24-hour (4:25) medical care and (4:27) Enough people around its facilities to support some pretty challenging behaviors without having to resort to law enforcement involvement (4:34) so (4:35) there are and there are a (4:37) Portion of population. I mean, I don’t whatever that person (4:40) And it’s small, but there’s just a very right (4:44) It’s just a variance in the scale of humanity is that we have extremes on both ends of that and sure (4:49) This is just a portion of the civilization with which we deal right and say it’s important.Yeah, it’s important (4:55) I would say for the ones that we serve a (4:59) Significant portion of those come from pretty challenging backgrounds, right? (5:04) So the the nice folks that we know that are fully functional in town (5:08) Chances are odds odds are that they had good parents and good upbringing and good (5:14) OTPT speech schools, you know all the services to get them to that functional point (5:19) but you can imagine what it would be like if you didn’t have that right if (5:23) if your parents were were absent or on drugs or in jail or (5:28) Dysfunctional themselves in some way, right? So that was a lot of genetic function to that (5:35) You had two people who were like born, you know, someone born and then adopted at the earliest age and completely nurtured but it’s like a (5:44) 56% chance of still being more hereditary than even (5:50) Which is kind of interesting thing the answer but but I do believe that that it is nature and nurture both and for these folks (5:58) That end up at the kind of places I work. It’s challenges on both ends of that spectrum, right for sure (6:05) It’s making your point like with autism (6:08) Yeah, yeah (6:09) like with autism (6:10) We find that people who have got early detection that can they can manage it much better because they can socialize the child the way (6:17) Someone on the spectrum would need to be socialized and things like that (6:21) And if you don’t realize that or you know, sometimes parents don’t you know (6:25) You don’t want to hear that because it’s like a real hurtful truth, unfortunately, right? (6:29) well, and we’re we’re working from the paradigm of people who (6:34) Will do anything for the betterment of their kids, but there’s people that aren’t like that (6:40) Yeah, and not everybody has a family to look to or to help a lot of the homeless problem is a lot of it (6:46) You know indigent people that were tossed out or something. I don’t have another so yeah (6:51) So our folks end up end up a lot of times (6:54) In in law enforcement in jail or in a mental hospital one or the other but their disability makes them not (7:01) Appropriate for that environment for the long term, right? (7:04) They may they may get their trip, but but that’s not the long-term answer (7:08) And so for those most challenging people they end up living with us.My day job is is behavior, right? (7:15) So I try to help them not hurt themselves try to help them not hurt other people (7:20) And do do the plans for what to do when things go wrong and the plans for how to keep things from going wrong (7:26) So that’s that’s my day job. I’m a (7:29) Certified behavior analyst for those that care what the nerdling language is (7:34) So does that so does that work and if I may I’m because I’m just I’m just asking if you know (7:38) There’s some of these questions like if they don’t go through these programs with you (7:42) They would then have some kind of actual like legal time. They would serve in (7:46) Sometimes (7:48) It would almost be they’d have to choose one or the other in a way and you have to find (7:53) We have a we have a percentage that are that way that are what we’d call a forensic commitment.So their choice is (7:59) Jail or the state state support living center (8:03) But most of the time honestly, there’s not a ton of choice by the time people get to us (8:08) they’re they’re committed by the court some some choose some Jews, but I (8:14) Would say the largest percentage of our admissions anyway, or not that way (8:18) But yeah, I’ve been doing that and how did you get in also 16 years? (8:23) Wow, so (8:25) Held you to that. Oh, it’s a complicated life. Same as everybody.So I love to hear it if you (8:32) I came out of (8:35) high school and went to college to go to be an engineer and (8:39) I made it about a semester and a half and I decided I didn’t want to do that (8:43) So I switched over to ministry to church work (8:47) Church Christ guy by my background (8:50) and then I went off and I (8:53) Realized even as a 21 year old, I was like man, there’s not really any old guys doing this (8:59) So maybe I ought to get a little bit more education while I’m here (9:02) Right, so I got this 36 hour master’s in psychology just kind of as a backup plan (9:08) Just in case. Oh, yeah, like a minor or something. Yeah.Well, no, I mean it was a master’s (9:13) Wow (9:15) Would do that, okay (9:17) yeah, I did a grad degree and then I went off and did church work for six years full-time and then one day I (9:24) Found myself with two small children and no job (9:28) as sometimes happens in church work and (9:31) it was a difficult time lots of (9:35) traumatic changes there (9:38) Went back to grad school again worked on another master’s in ministry (9:43) Which served as really good therapy to get over wanting to do ministry for my economic (9:48) sustainment (9:50) so I (9:52) Got out of out of full-time church work (9:54) I was working at a sporting goods store in the meantime while I was at grad school made manager there (9:59) So I had a viable career path (10:02) But I had worked I had worked six days a week in December all December and at the end of the month (10:08) I still hadn’t gone Christmas shopping and we had won won a raffle for a babysitter (10:13) Okay, so I had this free babysitter that we used to go Christmas shopping after I had sold people crap (10:19) They didn’t need for the last 20 some odd days in a row (10:22) And I was I was fussing about that to my babysitter (10:26) It was a very competent kind woman from church. She runs a (10:30) Big big thing in in the Abilene there and she said well, don’t you have a master’s degree? I said nope (10:37) and she’s like (10:39) They’re hiring over there and I said what if they do over there and that’s how it went (10:44) Well, I met the minimum qualifications. I applied (10:48) they were (10:49) They were in the process of hiring a whole bunch of people which means they get pretty far down into the applicant pool (10:55) So they picked me (10:57) So, yeah, here we are (10:59) Somewhere along the way they decided that we needed more education.So they provided that I took advantage of that fully (11:06) Absolutely. So that’s that’s how I am (11:09) Where I am now (11:10) a lot of years later (11:12) Worked my way up (11:13) Facilities and now I work for for the central office. So very cool (11:17) So you you work with the church of churches different time.Do you do that at all? (11:22) Are you a pastor in any capacity any not a not officially not officially? (11:26) I have not been you still have the same share the same faith that you did or did your faith change as your (11:31) Name same basic denomination (11:34) I still I still serve at the church some in terms of singing so churches of Christ are distinctive about mostly a cappella music (11:41) So I I’ve been a singer since I was a young man in high school choir (11:46) So I’ve done that forever. I mean (11:49) I have I have a (11:53) Hill in preached some I have taught Bible class plenty of times (11:57) since since I got out of it as a day job, but (12:01) I do not serve in any full-time capacity. I serve in a completely (12:06) voluntary capacity one fun (12:09) That I can still help you but I can do it when I want it’s great (12:13) I know the second I make any one on this podcast.I’m gonna be like, oh now it’s work (12:18) Yeah, for real, you know, I mean I’m doing all this like passion work for free (12:22) But I know the second the first penny comes in it’s gonna seem like a drug. Oh gotta do it or else (12:27) Yeah, yeah, it’s gonna change everything and it’s such a shame (12:31) So after all of that (12:35) Somewhere along the way back in about (12:37) 2012 I came across this idea. You can see my flag in the back that maybe Texas would be better off as an independent country (12:47) Right, so I I was anti a little bit everything but I came across this idea (12:52) Well, maybe we could do better on our own and I I bought it like I got it.It made sense to me (12:59) Click so yeah, here’s something now like it and it’s interesting because once again, we’re talking about variants of the human species (13:06) Mm-hmm. You heard you hear a message and for you. It’s just rings (13:14) Yeah, yeah (13:15) Yeah, share that share that experience and how like well, how did you first hear it? (13:19) And how did it kind of just resonate like how did it even come to that fruition? (13:24) So the the simplest answer (13:27) Again, I don’t want to dive off into this too far.Was that the the Federal Department of Justice got involved in my day job (13:33) Okay (13:33) Now we earned that it’s a long complicated process. I can’t talk about of course (13:39) But what it came down to was this (13:42) The government of the most powerful country in the world was busting Jason Frye on what he wrote in one individual’s paperwork (13:50) right, that was so far out of (13:54) Balance with how I think government should work (13:56) Again, we earned that we needed we needed some scrutiny that when we did fine our services improved (14:01) but the the macro level of (14:03) You know the most powerful country in the world that can’t control its borders (14:07) It keeps blowing up other people on the other side of the world by golly. They got fries papers under control (14:12) right (14:14) Over you know, it’s like of all the things in the world the government can take care of this is not one and (14:19) Again more services improved.I mean, you know, I’m not trying to talk about that process (14:29) Institution and especially a state institution there needs to be transparency there needs to be this accountability. Yeah, sure (14:35) Sure, we’re talking about that. But on a side note just the amount of paperwork (14:40) Bureaucracy levels that you have to go through to get something done to get something changed to improve something and let’s be honest (14:47) It you really do find it creates the problems that it says it’s trying to solve and then it that (14:54) Allegedly justifies them to put more resources into that like it worked the first time (15:00) Well, I didn’t maintain the scrutiny forever instead of making these reasonable goals you can achieve right? It’s always good money after bad, too (15:07) They just keep pumping money.It’s not like it’s not the right amount of energy right the right amount (15:11) So so again without getting too much into the details of the job stuff (15:16) Philosophically, that was a tipping point for me (15:19) by by (15:21) 2017 I was starting to write for the Texas Nationalist Movement a little bit (15:26) You know writing (15:28) pro, Texas Independence (15:31) News basically the format is pretty simple something happened (15:35) If we were independent, it would be awesome or it would be better or it might be worse or I mean (15:40) It’s just you bounce you bounce the news through that lens of how would an independent, Texas address this and I wrote a hundred (15:47) 120 articles for them over over a few years (15:52) All behind a pseudonym, okay, because I work for state government. Yeah (15:58) Franklin had a pseudonym (16:00) The whole anonymity is a real thing now (16:02) I’m not the thing is like I use my full name, which is funny because mm-hmm on the anonymity thing is I had that real early (16:09) And I it was before I had even thought anything and I’m like, I already have a digital footprint (16:14) I can’t be not like I can’t be anonymous or I’m just gonna find it (16:17) So I’m just gonna go all in with who I am and just so that’s kind of (16:20) Where I got to eventually, right? So after advocating from the shadows for a long time (16:27) There was another another tipping point in my advocacy. So back in (16:34) January of last year (16:36) there was a a (16:39) Conflict or an interesting turn of events down at Shelby Park and Eagle Pass, Texas.Do you know that story? (16:45) I’m familiar with the Eagle Pass, but yeah, so here’s the basics. It was right at the height of some of the border chaos (16:52) And there was this where they were bulldozing the razor wire and things like that or sort of weather (16:57) There was a piece of that same same ongoing conflict. There was an issue with buoys (17:01) There was an issue with Texas putting out (17:03) It’s making it (17:08) So Shelby Park was a public park along the river nice place to have a park, right so (17:14) That park was under usual.It’s operational control of the feds, which means yeah, y’all come on over. Here’s some cookies (17:20) right, I mean it was like they were letting everybody and their cousin from through that public park and (17:28) It’s a it wasn’t private land (17:29) So there’s no individual that could close the gate or build the fence, right? (17:33) It was public sort of so the state of Texas did a little bit of legal research (17:37) I’m not sure on the details of it, but they figured out that the feds didn’t have a (17:43) Right to be in the park. They had no jurisdiction in the park (17:47) I mean on that piece of property and so the state of Texas the state Texas State Guard (17:53) One night put up fences and locked the feds out.So they closed the park down (17:58) As a park which conveniently wink-wink closed down that major border crossing site (18:06) So, so what you know exactly so what you ended up with was (18:10) Texas State Guard lined up on one side of the fence and border patrol lined up on the other side of the fence (18:16) Right a little probably grumpy all law enforcement. Everybody’s strapping, right? So I (18:22) Fully believe nobody nobody intended to escalate that and it didn’t escalate which is awesome (18:28) But we’ve all also seen (18:30) Tombstone or the gangster movies where everybody’s sitting there yelling you put yours down (18:35) No, you put yours down and the one little scared kid in the back (18:38) twitches and everybody’s dead, right (18:42) true I (18:43) Saw that as a possibility (18:46) In that scenario not because anybody there wanted to escalate but because some stupid fool in the bushes (18:52) Could do something that might start a civil war by accident (18:58) Right, so and it really is (19:00) I mean, what was what wasn’t it? (19:02) The one with the I mean with the revolution wasn’t it? (19:04) They ate British soldiers somebody whoever fired first somebody just had an itchy trigger for a little a little. Yeah a little bit (19:10) Right.I mean the Boston Massacre. I mean there was a lot of stuff leading up to yeah (19:14) But yeah, same same kind of scenario, right and I don’t want that (19:22) There might be a couple of nihilists (19:27) So I have I have two sons (19:30) 19 and 20 that serve in the US military (19:34) Okay, so my worst-case scenario the thing I prepared them for was God forbid there come a day (19:40) When your boss tells you to come hunt down me, right? (19:45) Explicitly nonviolent all the time, but conceptually you get the idea (19:48) Right is my worst case my worst fear for my children is that they would be called to fight against (19:54) Their their homeland their family (19:57) And so I sure as hell I’m not gonna let that happen by accident because some guy in the bushes pops off (20:04) Right, so that that that showy part thing was a major tipping point for me (20:08) And I thought well somebody’s got to get ahead of this, but we cannot leave this to chance (20:15) Fortunately, you know sometimes those those long shot chances most of the time those long shot chances don’t occur. Cool (20:21) I’m happy for that (20:23) But I started writing in February like right after that (20:28) And I had the book in (20:31) Editing and layout and stuff by July and we printed for the last week of August (20:38) Hustled it out as far as things go (20:41) Tried hard to (20:44) You know do good source work at 60 or 70 citations (20:48) Used a bunch of other people’s material, you know as references as a responsible scholar (20:53) But there are already scholarly books in this this (20:58) Rhetorical space, right? So Ryan McMaken has a good book on on how smaller countries are better and secession is probably nice (21:07) What’s the name Frank Buckley FH Buckley had a book from the left perspective actually about how you know (21:14) We don’t necessarily have to put up with a Trump style government.We could break away and (21:20) Do it our way, right? That was in 2022, right? So that there’s there’s already stuff in that that space (21:27) Yeah, are you familiar with Stephen Villay of Club 75 Alliance by any chance? Don’t know that one (21:33) So they’re they’re a New Hampshire. So they’re part of the Free State piece where they’re looking to secede as well (21:39) Yes, I know. I know that story.I know some of those people. I just didn’t know that one particular guy (21:45) So do you have a group you have a specific group together? (21:49) Can you share like an org or org or anything that you had kind of so let me back up one notch. So yeah (21:56) There are already (21:59) Secession groups in (22:01) At least a half a dozen states.You mentioned, New Hampshire. I’m from Texas (22:06) I know of California and the Idaho thing and Louisiana and Florida just off the top of my head, right? (22:14) and so (22:16) when (22:16) Two years ago roughly Marjorie Taylor Greene out of Georgia (22:20) Threw out the idea of a national divorce on Twitter and everything exploded. Everybody went nuts, right? (22:27) But those of us who have been diligently working on a peaceful transition for years already (22:32) We’re kind of irritated.Honestly, that’s not a freaking plan. That’s just a slogan (22:36) You don’t even know what you’re talking about, right? Right. That actually just stokes a rhetoric (22:40) Yeah, it just it just amps the rhetoric up without actually putting anything concrete forward (22:47) So that’s the angle that I took.I wrote the book called (22:51) National divorce a plan for peace. Now. Let me give you the fastest summary in the world.I (22:57) took the rhetoric of what if we split and (23:00) Merge that with the strategy of the existing groups who have been working on clean strategy, right? (23:06) So the way to a national divorce is through in my mind legislative action or the existing legal processes (23:13) So that you can result in a peaceful outcome (23:16) Of course, I you know 250 pages. It’s a little more complex than that. But again, I intentionally wrote to (23:22) to bridge the gap in the rhetoric and to not repeat the scholarly level stuff, but put it in metaphors in ways that (23:31) Regular folks like me can understand (23:34) So that’s the thing (23:35) The way, you know mastery of a subjects if you can teach it to like like you can teach it to a 5th 5th grader (23:40) Right, so if you can explain it down to a to a simple way with metaphors (23:45) Analogies and things like that that really does connect with people.So so (23:51) What is the general thought of it? Is it just Texas to secede as a whole as a whole entity or is that so? (23:59) Let me get a couple of angles on that one. Yeah, so I came from a Texas background like Texas is my home (24:05) I’m not going anywhere probably (24:07) You know, Texas independence is my ultimate goal (24:11) To a large degree. I support New Hampshire and California and other places gaining their independence (24:17) So far as it improves Texas chances at independence, right? (24:20) I want them to have what they want, but I want to be left alone.That’s my big picture for me (24:27) You know, I’m not interested super much, you know, why would you (24:30) Why would you leave one master and then sign back up with another right? (24:34) Like I’m not interested in some coalition or Confederacy or Confederation or European Union style, whatever (24:41) We already sort of halfway have that we don’t need any of that anymore. You don’t leave that to go join another one, right? (24:48) But no, Texas independence as a full autonomous country is my personal goal (24:52) But again, the book is is broader than that, you know, I (24:59) Predicted unsuccessfully that the machine would not let Trump win. That’s what I believe (25:10) Yeah, I I think I think it was just so outlandish Lee lopsided in this one (25:15) Yeah, that it just could not be (25:19) Juiced at the polls (25:21) Obviously, he skated a couple (25:24) Weird attempt.Yeah, the margin of the popular vote was beyond the margin of the influence. Okay, cool little states, right? (25:31) Yeah, but what I figured was that half of everybody was gonna be pissed regardless, right? (25:36) Regardless of who won half of everybody’s gonna be grumpy still have still have (25:42) Fortunately for my book sales, it’s not my half (25:44) Like I can speak the language of the right I know those people right they are my people I understand (25:50) But the left are the ones now that are grumpy and I don’t understand them very well (25:55) So if I may just if I may really quickly, I’ve got a gentleman Justin Holmes. He’s on he’s on through Facebook (26:01) He’s a friend of mine.We’ve got Jason Frey on from Forge and Fire and obviously from (26:07) Texas Independence (26:08) So the question is if I recall correctly (26:11) Texas passed a bill in the last year or two approving looking into what it would take for them to secede (26:17) Is there some kind of piece where they’re like was like a research committee or something? (26:22) I can tell you about that. The answer is that’s not exactly how it went. There was no such committee ever formed but (26:29) Two sessions ago.We did have a Texas Independence referendum bill filed and last session. We also had a bill filed (26:36) Okay, so we have had legislation filed twice now and we are we are two weeks away from the this this next (26:45) Legislative session we fully expect that it’ll be filed again (26:49) Many good ideas take multiple passes before they get traction, right? I would love to see him. Yeah, I mean (26:57) Yeah, yeah, I would love to see it take off but the reality is we are already in the process (27:03) We filed a couple of times we’ve got ten or eleven legislators who have signed a pledge to help us in this deal (27:10) So we’re working it man.We’re working it. It’s gonna happen. It’s just a matter of whether it’s sooner or later (27:16) So well, that’s what’s funny about it, too (27:18) Cuz you’re talking about it taking off and it’s like I’ve been doing this podcast for four years (27:21) Like I’m there’s zero there’s zero traction, but then it will it’ll clap (27:24) It’ll either click or it won’t but when it does if it does and when it does it just exponential (27:30) Yeah, and it seems like a meteoric rise out of nowhere (27:34) But all that planning that you did in the back end of it (27:38) So I had one so go ahead go ahead and continue because I have a couple questions about on the back end (27:42) Yeah, so so let me talk about that that act a little bit.That’s important (27:47) so what what the Texas proposal is and I actually put the (27:50) text of the entire bill in the book because I want people to be able to see and read what I’m talking about like this is (27:57) I pulled it straight off of the Texas government website. Like this is what was filed. This is not propaganda.This is what happened, right? (28:04) so what the bill asks for is (28:08) It specifies a committee to make a plan to leave within I think it’s three years and not be five (28:16) so the way that works is we have a (28:20) Election on a regular election day. We don’t call some special made-up thing (28:24) We slide it into the regular November election cycle on purpose (28:29) we put a question should Texas reassert its independence as a (28:35) Can’t remember should Texas reassert its status as an independent nation, that’s what it is. That’s the wording, right? (28:42) If that passes then the legislature is obligated to form a committee of specific people (28:49) To go upstairs and say hey guys, we’re ready to leave now.Here are 37 things. We need to negotiate (28:55) Right. So by law, they’re authorized to go make a plan on how to get us out of these different entanglements (29:03) and (29:03) Then set a exit strategy.So what it absolutely is not is (29:09) 1861 so (29:11) Let’s let’s call a special thing a convention and let’s vote and then F you are out on Tuesday, right? (29:17) It’s it’s explicitly not (29:20) It’s a right a legislative process much more like brexit than like anything that the United States has ever seen before (29:28) Well, what’s different though brexit is at least a country looking to join other countries (29:34) We’re talking about something part of a country looking to so we were we were talking about (29:38) Yeah, brexit would be an end of an independent nation leaving a lot of nations, right? (29:43) I mean (29:46) Right, but it’s not about you leaving it’s about America letting you go (29:53) So I mean talking about we’re talking about absorbing Canada the Panama Canal and Greenland all of a sudden out of the blue blue (30:00) And here we are talking about secession of New Hampshire and Texas and we think that’s gonna happen (30:06) And once again, this isn’t yeah the goal (30:09) The goal is absolutely admirable and I love the way and the legislative steps (30:13) Do you foresee pitfalls where the country just won’t allow this? (30:18) Absolutely. So so let’s talk about the divorce metaphor. Why did I pick that that answers this question? (30:24) You know all of us (30:26) I’ve been married 27 years.I picked my wife. She picked me (30:31) We stood up in front of our people and said I like that one right and until forever, right? (30:36) We made that choice in that commitment. There was no such day when we chose that about the United States government (30:42) Okay, I mean that may trick us into saying a pledge in elementary school (30:47) But but there was no day when we chose (30:49) Right.We did not choose to marry the government. So number one number two (30:55) All of us have seen divorce, right? (30:57) So whether it’s us or our parents or our friends or it’s common enough every single individual United States (31:03) Knows what divorce is and what looks like a few things are relevant there (31:09) number one divorce seldom happens immediately, right it happens as (31:16) Separation over time and finally the divorce is a formalization of that separation (31:22) Okay, so I would say that if you know if this were a marriage, which it’s not but if it were (31:27) You know, we’re already sleeping in separate beds and running separate bank accounts (31:32) The division should have been from day one. Anyway, we (31:35) Different banking beds, but the division the division is already there whether you call it red or blue or left or right or rural (31:43) Whatever you call it.The divisions already there, right? The fighting is already there doesn’t escalate it to stupidity (31:49) But the tension is all right there already. We’re already separated (31:53) And so when I propose divorce, I say why don’t we formalize the separation? I don’t say it’s better to separate (32:00) I don’t say we should separate that somehow that’s more (32:04) You know beneficial or good or it’s no I’d say we’re separated. We’re already separate (32:09) Let’s so let’s call a spade a spade and figure out a peaceful way out of it (32:14) Another point there, you know (32:17) For most people that whole process entirely sucks (32:23) Like I have met I have some friends that have been through divorces that were terrible (32:29) I’ve been through the scene some that it wasn’t (32:32) Super terrible, but it wasn’t fun and they wouldn’t do it again (32:35) Right, and then sometimes they spiral out of control into a mess other times (32:40) They kind of rebound and find another family and try again, right? (32:43) I mean, we’ve all seen all those different outcomes all of that’s on the table (32:46) I think like there’s there’s varieties of spice of life (32:49) So if there were I don’t think there will be but if there were 50 independent nations all of a sudden, right? (32:55) If each state became its own thing (32:57) Some of them would form coalitions and confederations.Some of them would be independent (33:02) Some of them would crash and burn some of them would do very well (33:05) I mean that same variability of individuals, I think will apply to new countries (33:10) the coming out of this deal (33:12) So I don’t pretend to say that if we would just do this, it will be sunshine and roses for everybody (33:18) Yeah, I don’t think it’s that simple (33:20) No, and that’s the thing it’s any transition and and really when we talk national divorce my concern is that is not (33:28) Where we are and not where we’re gonna go or we’re gonna be what happens in transition to that (33:34) Where death happens, that’s where famine happens. That’s where war that’s where conflict and (33:39) As a pilot I always learned is like it’s better it’s we’re an emergency situation (33:45) Okay, if you’re an emergency situation as a pilot and you still have power (33:49) It’s better to land under power and pick your spot where you want to yes, then do lose your engine completely and have (33:55) That’s a very good analogy. We still are under some power here (33:59) So can we at least exactly our spot and we’re not doing that.We’re just I love that analogy. I’m gonna steal that probably (34:08) Really click you’re the first person actually said it click because I’ve been using that one a little bit (34:12) So here’s the other thing about that, right? (34:17) We all understand (34:19) Divorce is nasty and terrible sometimes results in better outcomes is the obvious solution to some of these problems (34:26) Right, but there is a stated clear expectation that you cannot kill that guy (34:32) Yeah, I cannot kill her in this process, right? Violence is still against the rules. Yeah, not aggression.Yeah, we still have an enemy (34:38) No, no, not even that but I mean, yes, I fully believe that but I mean (34:43) There is a (34:45) Divorce doesn’t allow you to suddenly beat up the other person or guess right correct (34:50) That’s why I love this metaphor because that’s what we’re talking about. We’re talking about how can we unpack this thing? (34:56) How can we land this plane? (34:58) Before it gets to that and there’s a clear expectation that it doesn’t have to escalate. It doesn’t have to be (35:05) 1861 a point I like to make sometimes so that whole error was a mess (35:09) I mean nobody nobody pretends otherwise (35:11) But there was a 10-year period called bleeding, Kansas (35:14) Where the abolitionists and the pro-slavery people were fighting each other in the streets and stuff, right? (35:19) Like it was and that was a very good many people argue (35:22) Oh, yeah, sure.And once again, we’ve seen conflicts in very small pockets (35:27) We just haven’t seen the so real spark of that power cake and we can still put it out (35:33) We still we really can but let me (35:35) You know (35:37) So, so how many people died in bleeding Kansas I (35:42) Didn’t know I don’t know but I’ll tell you the number they it’s not a firm number of about 250 (35:47) Okay, so in 10 years of terrible conflict a couple of hundred people killed each other (35:52) Okay, and then the government decided to solve that problem and killed 600,000 more people to solve that problem (36:01) Well, that’s a funny thing I don’t know if you know about this where we’re doing the book report (36:05) Oh, we’re doing Scott Horton’s book provoke right now. And it’s like what we’re finding is so there’s a deal in place (36:13) We back the guy who is (36:16) Actually making out better in the deal by saying hold out because we can support you to get a better deal (36:21) We spend five years and kill hundreds of thousand people spend trillions about what billions of dollars (36:27) Hundreds of billions and then we end up with almost exactly the same exact deal down to the letter (36:33) Yeah, we could have had without all that loss, you know, exactly. Yeah exactly and I think that’s (36:39) That’s how this will go if the government can keep them keep their stupid grubby hands out of it (36:45) It will not be awesome, but it will be better than if they tried to fix the problem, right? (36:51) And that’s a concern immigration wise.I mean you’ve got obviously I’m a Texas border state (36:55) You’re a border state and here’s we’re talking about the military coming in (36:58) You do not want the military in our urban city in our urban cities. You do not want this (37:03) You do not want to give a military that kind of power and the DOJ just wrote off a thing where they they gave (37:10) This is so funny (37:12) Trump is this (37:14) Hitlerian Nazi (37:16) Fascist dictator he’s about to win the presidency in November in September the DOJ (37:22) Allows for use of lethal force to support law enforcement local law enforcement now, I have the documentation so it’s in the DOJ (37:30) It’s like okay, if you knew Trump was gonna be a Hitler guy (37:33) Why would you allow that authorization two months before he could get elected? Why would you so it’s clearly not like (37:45) All got the same level that they want to control our January the 8th so on the January 6th thing (37:52) You don’t want to get into that too far, but I told my teenage men teenage boys at the time (37:57) I said two things I have to say about that number one. You do not ever freakin forcibly take a government building (38:04) Number two if you do you better freakin win and they better be stacking bodies (38:08) This whole thing was a farce on everybody in the whole thing fumbled it, right? (38:13) The idiot shouldn’t have gone into the Capitol the law enforcement shouldn’t let him in the whole thing was a screwed-up mess (38:18) And I think that’s probably why the DOJ did that they wanted to be prepared for future shenanigans (38:24) Yeah, absolutely because they met lectern guy.I met like (38:30) Best and I took a picture with him. I yeah, yeah, but like look (38:36) He he had to pay for what he did and he did what he walked in he did that (38:40) Okay, sure. Yeah, but some of the people that were persecuted absolutely ridiculous (38:44) But also anyone who incite any violence or didn’t any property damage those are those are aggressions on property and people (38:52) It’s it’s just not acceptable (38:55) Violation of a sacred space right? There are some places you just don’t bust into and that was one (39:02) You know it so any and I’m even for them being able to be on the on the (39:07) But they call that trespassing but I’m actually a for that I think that’s okay as long as they don’t do anything, right? (39:14) Yeah, but anyway again, I don’t I don’t want to dive off into that too far (39:17) Except for to say that that’s not how you do a coup or a revolution or that’s not how you do frickin anything (39:23) That was a disaster from everybody’s perspective (39:26) including (39:27) About to bring their guns with them, right? (39:31) Afterwards, so let’s let’s put little old ladies in jail because they went in the Capitol building (39:36) stupid (39:39) Let’s pick a (39:40) Group leaders that we don’t like and arrest them who weren’t even in town, but they were relaxed, you know (39:47) Yeah, and I don’t know him he might be a dirtbag (39:54) No, look this has nothing this has nothing to do with it because it’s like I do I’ve okay (39:59) I met I I had the absolute privilege of meeting Lynn Lynn over Rob Ross’s mom (40:06) During during Freedom Fest in Las Vegas.I got to give her a big hug (40:09) I didn’t want to bother for a selfie cuz come on (40:11) That’s just for that’s the same off like I’m it wasn’t about that (40:15) It’s about her and just that she was there to share her son’s story. I don’t know (40:19) I just know that he has a right to be free that he there’s nothing he did that (40:25) I know of that I can see he did that that I find a plural whether I find him (40:30) Regardless of what I think of him as a person. Yeah, exactly example (40:35) Which again speaks to the dysfunction, right? It speaks to the fact that this relationship is out of whack (40:43) And I wouldn’t even put blame.So I I in the book I talk about (40:48) Talk about tribalism as the answer not as the problem, right? So (40:54) That began and had a famous book. I guess 12 years ago 14 years ago said tribalism was the problem with America, right? (41:03) I (41:03) Don’t know if I want to take that guy on intellectually, but I think he’s wrong (41:07) I think the problem with with it is actually coercion (41:12) And it is both the left and the right that are nasty (41:15) Sons of guns when it comes to the use of political power to have it their way. Let me give you a few examples (41:23) We’ll just use the recent ones (41:26) Everybody must be allowed in every bathroom says the government.I think that’s single-handedly lost the election (41:34) Yeah, I think parents parents when it came to their children. It just was a lot (41:39) It was an unspoken line where they’re in their head and they’re sitting there looking at the names and they’re going (41:45) Do I want my daughter to get beat up by a boy? (41:48) Yeah, like no kidding (41:49) Like I’m just sorry like do I want this then and I really think because it seems to be that suburban votes always that swing (41:57) Oh, it’s all we can go one way or another and I really think that trans was almost single-handedly (42:03) The economy was one probably so really there was just over again (42:07) I pick on that issue because this cycle the left has really pushed that Obama started it, right? (42:13) But but they have used the levers of power to force their opinion on a social issue (42:19) Okay, that’s the left but the right is equally guilty, right? So we have gone from (42:26) Adult member explicit lyrics with that. It wasn’t too.I know Timber Gore pushed it, but remember it was James Baker’s wife (42:33) Mmm, that actually it’s spearheaded tipper and talked him into it with the Billy Graham (42:39) Those censorship. Yeah, that’s a good two wings of the same bird everybody. Well, let’s not kid ourselves.These people want control (42:46) It’s just how they control us. So the example I was gonna use was was abortion (42:50) So we kick it back to the states cool. It should have been a state issue to begin with (42:55) Involved at all (42:57) Obviously shouldn’t be you and your spouse deciding or you you know, but okay, whatever (43:04) Well, it’s rhetoric that they that they made abortion illegal.It’s not illegal. It’s brought to the state’s attention now (43:11) I I personally do not think a state has a right to (43:15) For it’s one of its citizens if they want to go outside of the state to do something illegal in their state (43:20) Then they can’t go outside of that and when I see that overreach immediate as a just a just an absolute snapback (43:27) I go guys stop stop, right? (43:30) Right, that’s the right doing the exact same thing. It is (43:36) we’re using the (43:39) Legal levers to screw over the rest of the world because of their opinion.Oh, yeah to control their behavior that way (43:45) So the problem is not is not that one tribe or the other (43:49) Believes or allows or doesn’t it’s that both of those bastards use coercion to have it their way (43:57) To force it their way on the other person. That’s why the relationships dysfunctional. So to me (44:03) Yeah, good (44:05) Man your argument about the about the size.So tribalism is the answer and when let’s go back to a simple concept called Dunbar’s number (44:14) Okay, so Dunbar’s number is the number of people that you can recognize with your faith that you know directly (44:20) It’s like 10 to 20 people (44:21) Then there’s an outside a circle of that is 60 to 80 people that you know (44:25) And you know their name and at least you know where they live or whatever then you’ve got an outside circle (44:29) But it’s bigger than about 150 200 right now (44:33) I now I do think we do with technology at the level it is now and we don’t need to go any further (44:40) I don’t want to push that AI stuff because it is dangerous (44:43) But at this level we can use technology to make that Dunbar number (44:48) 1,500 versus 150 maybe 10x it and you know, that’s a pretty decent society of 1,500 people and having (44:56) Hundreds of these societies around the country (44:59) We can find homogenous ones, right (45:04) I mean we can find people that we agree with that are way over there through technology. Cool, right? (45:10) That way and use that right and it allows for that peaceful (45:13) Exchange without having to worry about the extra beating for your eyes sorcerer (45:18) So my position is is that that is the way humanity has been (45:21) Forever. It is only in the last few hundred years that we’ve had whole freaking continents under one democracy, right? (45:32) What’s actually true is that that a 50 state conglomerate that covers a whole continent is (45:38) Is unnatural.It’s not not the way (45:42) Humanity has survived up until this point, you know (45:45) right, so (45:48) We got to we’ve got two cities. We got New York City and Omaha, Nebraska (45:53) Okay, they have different needs (45:56) 100% should have no influence on each other (45:59) There should be no federal rule that one has any influence on any now one can adopt a rule (46:06) They’re like, okay. It’s a good idea.Let’s do that. Okay, but not like okay (46:10) Everybody has to do this because it’s ridiculous to have there, you know, so talk about a couple of benefits to that (46:16) I talked about bleeding Kansas and a couple of hundred people dying and that’s not awesome. That’s bad, right and (46:22) When you have small groups of like-minded people, there’s inevitably conflict with neighboring groups always (46:29) Right, but my position is that me and 150 my friends if we want some cookies from the 150 people next door (46:38) Most people that will destroy is 300 people, right? (46:41) It takes the way I phrase it is it takes world powers to have a world war (46:45) Right and in the nation of New Hampshire is not gonna freakin attack China (46:50) Right, right that smallness.Actually, it doesn’t it doesn’t prevent violence at all (46:56) But it keeps the total number of people killed down (47:00) Individuals don’t kill people (47:01) In a way, right, yeah, they become they do become breakouts in a weird way, but once again (47:08) Violence is also a human nature (47:11) It’s not like you can (47:15) Right, yeah exactly so and and to your point we need to defang the government, right it’s it’s (47:21) So when you got a sitting president that says well if you want to take us on you don’t need AR 15 (47:26) Do you need f-15s and maybe some nukes? (47:29) That that’s foolish (47:31) That is the same as in this divorce scenario. That is the same as me saying (47:36) You know, if you try to leave I’m gonna freaking kill you you can’t do that. You can’t threaten that (47:40) It’s not right and you sure as heck can’t do it, right? (47:43) But we’ve got the leader of the government is doing that so again a sign of the dysfunction (47:50) yeah, but then I argue that we’ve I mean I look at some of the stuff we’ve done and and it’s (47:55) Become more and more evident that we do some pretty pretty pretty bad stuff.It’s not always a good (48:01) I mean look like oh, this is what the point was. You were talking about the wars and everything (48:05) It’s like it’s funny. The Fed was created in 1913.Mm-hmm. The first great war was (48:11) 1914 what a shock (48:14) Yeah, what a coincidence that oh just when they got the absolute funding to fund a global war (48:21) They just when I decided they could print the next day (48:25) Yeah, yeah (48:26) And we talk about like the creature Jekyll Island, you know, for example is a book and all these other things it’s like (48:31) You know that the we have to be very careful about those powers that really run those things because they do pull those levers (48:38) You know, absolutely. I would love a peaceful transition away.I would go together (48:44) You know, I always just worry, you know, I think if it doesn’t go peacefully (48:49) It will not be because of the levers the people who are trying to escape (48:54) It will be the government choosing. Oh, yeah (48:58) Absolutely over self-determination, which incidentally is the same thing. They did last time you can put their foot on your yeah (49:04) That’s the same thing that happened in 1861, you know, Abe Lincoln was not willing to let (49:10) people have what they had voted for (49:13) He thought well, no, we need to kill a few hundred thousand people to solve this problem (49:18) The problem was already solved without the violence, right? (49:21) And again, whatever you think on those issues, I think slavery was wrong, I think the South (49:32) Right clean it’s not ever as clean although we got infinite zeal for example, right you probably spoken with him before (49:38) Joel Ellen would I mean he he’s like Abraham Lincoln’s his least favorite his most hated president (49:44) Yeah, he’s like look what he did the tyranny (49:46) He imposed to hold the country together and like we look at it like oh, yeah (49:52) He was holding America and keeping it together, but I don’t know a percept you can look at (49:59) He was forcing it together (50:03) Looks like this (50:05) When when you the first thing you Google on can my state succeed is no because of Civil War, right? (50:11) Let me explain that argument in terms of divorce (50:13) It’s called I almost killed you last time you tried to leave and if you try to leave again (50:17) I’m really gonna freaking kill you this time.I’ll make I’ll make sure what the heck kind of relationship is that right? (50:22) Who wants to be in that relationship? But that’s the argument. That’s the argument (50:26) Is that no, we kept the Union together by force and that’s somehow better. No.No, it’s worse (50:32) It’s a sign that the whole thing is a mess to begin with right? So again those of us that that advocate for (50:38) self-determination peaceful separation (50:41) You know, our fear is not the extreme right or the extreme left at the local level. It’s that (50:48) That they will not let us get away (50:51) Honestly, it really is. Let’s talk.Can we talk about Greenland? Just because yes, it’s related one question before (50:58) Justin’s been very engaging and let’s go. First. Yes.Thank you for joining live because like this is fun live because we’ve had (51:06) a number of (51:07) Yeah, it’s really fun and people get to type in so Justin Justin, okay, so I’ll give a little background (51:14) I was a grade a new up neocon (51:16) So once again, I told you I enlisted in the military, but I failed the last guy blah blah blah (51:21) I was all about I had a hasted on this goods for you t-shirt (51:24) I was all about like, you know total Iraq Libya (51:28) I remember the f-111 when I was in middle school or whatever in 86 or whatever when they bombed Libya and all that (51:34) Okay all that now it took a while, but it cracked very similar to like kind of a Tucker (51:39) It was like what and then just once it cracks you see all the lie (51:44) And then it’s just like opens and you can’t not see it. You know what I mean? (51:47) You just overlay the blueprint go. Oh, I see the truth, you know, so I (51:53) Justin is a very good guy.I admire the man respect man. I think he’s a little bit where I more where I was (51:59) So this is kind of from this perspective and I totally understand his perspective (52:03) So he says we live in a world run by massive mega power states (52:07) How would a conglomeration of tribalistic states live safely on the world stage when surrounded? (52:15) geopolitically by these superpowers (52:18) Yeah, again, I argue that it’s a superpower set of the problem themselves, you know, if it comes down to (52:25) You know me and my city (52:27) 100 (52:28) 200,000 me and my 200,000 person city. We can’t stand up against the power of the state of Texas (52:35) you know the the (52:38) the temptation of (52:41) externals to gang up (52:44) Has always been it’s always been read the Old Testament (52:47) You know these seven kings from these seven cities went and attacked those seven kings from those seven cities and everybody died (52:54) I mean that’s humanity.That’s the way it is (52:56) You truly sure destruction in a you know, very weird broader sense. Yeah. Yeah, so (53:04) To say that we could we could do better because I believe that we could do better for our families and our neighbors (53:12) by leaving those other guys alone again the whole I mean, honestly that the Achilles heel of the argument of (53:19) this book is that it depends on a (53:22) commitment to non-aggression (53:24) Everybody who’s willing to leave is willing to do that (53:28) But the rest of them, I don’t know.I don’t trust those guys, right? (53:34) And for every other country in the United States I’d argue (53:38) that there are a hundred hundred ninety countries around the world so it’s not like we have two or three countries that are (53:45) swept up by other countries (53:47) So there are gonna be defensive type packs (53:50) There are many states that are larger than many (53:53) To that extent and then in the as a last point is we’re talking (54:01) I lost my train of thought but basically like I totally understand that point (54:04) But oh, my question is the energy that the US loses because they take the energy in other countries (54:11) They’re like I’m gonna let Texas walk away with their energy and that’s always the one that I was concerned about because you know (54:17) Yeah, yeah petrodollars now what the what everything’s married to so the (54:24) The economic answer the right the rightest the moral answer is (54:29) That nothing changes because free trade is always the way it should be right (54:35) Even though Texas energy is critical. It’s still sold and bought and connected (54:41) Doesn’t have to change doesn’t have to change. What’s interesting is (54:44) And I (54:48) Would choose to give it to my neighbor or sell it to my neighbor to keep that to keep that relationship strong (54:53) I wouldn’t want to even undercut them to make a profit to go halfway around the world because I’d want that (55:00) you know, it’s a (55:03) Technology and I need resources, right? It’s all it is is a trade of resources (55:09) It’s the same as if I had too many carrots and my neighbor had too many apples and we wanted to trade those exactly (55:13) Yep (55:15) On a humongous scale.So so sure Texas has in particular has a lot of a lot of oil (55:22) Lot of oil and gas number one. We don’t get to exploit that because the feds keep jacking with us, but number two (55:29) That that’s still a resource. That’s tradable (55:33) and so again, we could trade that for corn or for cows or for (55:37) Crap on the stock exchange.I don’t know we trade for what we want. Yeah, whatever (55:40) What about tiny countries though, let’s talk about that so Texas is (55:46) Roughly the 10th largest economy in the world by itself (55:49) 9th or 10th depending on you know circumstances Cal growing for (55:54) Growing. Yeah, so and so so (55:57) When you say that Texas in particular would never survive as an independent nation (56:04) What you’re really saying is (56:07) Somebody out of the top 10 cannot do as well as somebody out of the bottom 250, right? (56:15) And to steel man Jason’s or Justin’s argument if I may I think what he was kind of saying is like not just Texas (56:22) But he’s saying if all 50 states is needed (56:24) we’re talking about what’s Rhode Island who’s Rhode Island gonna protect itself from like and I’m and I think that kind of what it’s only (56:30) Why he would be literally on an island (56:39) Who’s (56:39) Going to to take over (56:42) Nebraska, it’s right square in the middle of a continent surrounded by a couple of oceans, right? The risks are low (56:48) Redbone, but let’s talk about let’s talk about that (56:50) So the United States spends about three point seven percent or three point eight percent of GDP on defense (56:56) And that covers about forty percent of all the defense spending in the world.Okay? (57:01) The international average is about two percent of GDP (57:05) So let’s follow the logic here. The numbers are not important. The logic is critical (57:10) So if an independent state like New Hampshire or or Rhode Island or Texas? (57:17) Spent the international average on defense in proportion to its GDP (57:22) right two percent (57:24) Then it would be as defended as the international average (57:28) What is the international average number of countries that experience hostile takeovers (57:34) Right, not very many not very many (57:37) Right, and that’s part of and I don’t want to say non-interventionist here.Okay, but I do really want to decouple (57:43) I want to have great relationships with these countries (57:45) But look we have other than our northern and southern borders, which we can secure. Let’s not get ourselves (57:51) We we just have to have the will to do it and we can do it and immigration is vital (57:56) I’m a first-generation American immigration is vital (57:59) Absolutely, but it has to be done in a logical sense that benefits our nation (58:05) right and (58:07) But we have we are we are just so far apart from Europe and Russia. It’s like they’re not coming here (58:14) They’re not coming over the pond.They’re not doing it (58:18) If they did we would see it coming (58:22) Yeah (58:24) For China to take over, Texas, they’re not gonna sneak up on you guys (58:30) It would be it would be it would be a (58:33) Defensible position the world is separated by (58:37) distance for good reasons (58:40) Yeah, so so (58:42) Excellent. Well, I’d love to share anything else (58:44) You want to share any stories about your kids in the military or anything any fun story? (58:49) So one one’s in the ones at the Air Force Academy and ones in the Marines toting freight around in a big airplane (58:56) One thing I would like to say that I haven’t said is where can you find this book? I keep talking about (59:02) So that book is (59:04) National divorce a plan for peace (59:06) It is available at national-divorce.com (59:10) So national-divorce.com it is also available on Amazon if you think Jeff Bezos needs another yacht (59:17) I would rather you bought it from me, but you can get it from Amazon if you want. They’ll ship it faster (59:23) My copies my copies come autographed which makes them worth exactly the same (59:28) Get the autograph (59:31) So again, I mean Lincoln all that.No, I wanted you to tell me all that stuff (59:35) So I’m glad you got that in there. And yeah, and you do you have a knife making? (59:40) That one is fry custom knives calm (59:43) Fry custom knives now, I am I am Jason fry Jason K fry on X. That’s where all my politics is. I am (59:51) fried custom knives on everything else, which is you know, Instagram and YouTube and (59:58) You know, so I try to keep keep them separated a little bit (1:00:01) I don’t try to sell my politics to my knife customers or my knives to my political customers, right? (1:00:06) Well, Michael Jordan said Republicans buy Nikes to her they buy shoes too (1:00:12) That’s right.If you show up with green money or a cow for trade or something or precious metals (1:00:18) Yes, I trade as much as I can trade (1:00:21) What wrecked what record of that? I don’t see a record of that anyway (1:00:26) It works out well (1:00:29) So yeah, I mean I’m not (1:00:31) I’m happy to (1:00:32) I’ve had the chance to talk with you. This one’s been a little more freewheeling than some of the ones I’ve done (1:00:37) Yeah, my brain every answer. Yeah, every answer that you have makes me ask 82 other questions, and it’s really bad (1:00:48) It’s different and I can tell you that a lot of people are like (1:00:51) it’s just a different experience than most because a lot of people have like I just (1:00:56) Had that so is there anything else you want to talk about any is there anything you didn’t want to share about any (1:01:01) Feeling anything that came up that that needs to be addressed.We had an interesting weird Trudeau leaving, Canada (1:01:16) So there there has been some chatter that perhaps the United States would would buy (1:01:22) Greenland somehow or another whatever the heck that looks like (1:01:27) I’m (1:01:27) Interested in that. I think that’s awesome. Not for the reason you think I think it is, you know the idea that some other place (1:01:35) Could have a vote of its citizens and decide to join or not join (1:01:40) Man, that’s my neighborhood.That’s where I live. That’s what I want to see in the world, right? (1:01:45) I think it’s the wrong direction. I think turning us into a super continental (1:01:50) Conglomerate of no, that’s that’s the opposite of what’s what’s good for the universe (1:01:54) but (1:01:56) Putting it through a process of you know, do we want to join them? Let’s vote on it and see (1:02:01) Oh, we decided not to what are the benefits? What are the costs? (1:02:05) That’s where we need to be.I hope that people will see maybe it is to green (1:02:08) It probably is honestly to Greenland’s advantage to join the United States. Just like I think it’s probably to (1:02:15) Texas’s advantage to leave the United States (1:02:17) It’s probably to Puerto Rico’s advantage to quit trying to join the United States and start taking care of their own business (1:02:24) It’s probably to Hawaii’s advantage to stay connected to the huge conglomerate that’s on the other side of the world (1:02:30) So for defense, I mean every place every place has the right to look at their situation and say am I in or am I out? (1:02:37) That’s why I like Greenland. I (1:02:40) Don’t like the like the conversation that that this is arisen (1:02:44) About about a nation’s choice to come, you know to join or not, right? (1:02:49) Mark and choose right? Yeah.Well, they already did that, right? (1:02:54) Right, so it’s just about becoming you but like the rhetoric that I’m seeing though is now he’s talking (1:03:00) we’ll use the military and it’s like really that’s really like what did that need to be and (1:03:05) Once again, I know it’s Trump, but it’s not him that that worries me (1:03:10) There’s about three or four names right behind him and I have the names. I’ve shared them on other podcasts (1:03:16) People that are the MAGA people who just believe everything he says and they’re the ones who are like, yes, we’re not asking Greenland (1:03:24) You’re part of us. It’s like you’re coming with me.No. Yes. No your point.I love your (1:03:29) I could see that like if if you if you go through the process if Greenland says yes, we want to be (1:03:35) yeah, United States now and (1:03:38) Somebody else says no you can’t (1:03:40) See us using the military to enforce their will to enforce the will I mean American should vote (1:03:45) However, that’s a freaking slippery slope, right? (1:03:48) Cuz didn’t half of Ukraine vote to join Russia in 2014 and they still haven’t in there now. There’s a war (1:03:56) Yeah, that’s a whole other it is but it’s it’s bad for the big neighbor to get involved in the local conflict (1:04:02) Oh, absolutely. Who’s right? (1:04:05) again (1:04:06) have fun with Scott Horton, but (1:04:08) But if we intervene on behalf of Greenland that that’s a bad precedent (1:04:15) Right, but if they want to join us and somebody else gets right (1:04:19) Shouldn’t we vote though to as Americans like we should actually (1:04:23) Because it’s kind of in my opinion.I don’t think that just like an elected official. This is outside of the purview (1:04:30) What the government should do it’s something the people I think should decide on almost like is it like a National Park kind of thing? (1:04:36) I don’t know. Did we did we did we do that on Alaska or the Louisiana purchase? (1:04:42) I don’t know.I’d really I’m interested in checking the historical precedent (1:04:45) I would guess I would guess not and I would guess the people were also much less like in tune with it (1:04:52) Much more. I mean watch where we were on much we’re leaving each other alone. The government wasn’t in our business (1:04:56) So what did we care? Yeah, I didn’t care about that.That would be an interesting thought experiment (1:05:01) I’m not proposing this that we put it put it to a popular vote. What would that look like? (1:05:07) What if we put it to a popular vote? (1:05:08) Texas says we want to leave and their response is okay (1:05:11) If the other states let you and they put it and ask the people now what that I mean (1:05:17) That really would have to be a man and it’s like Texas breaks away in a man and three quarters (1:05:22) I’m just saying I’m saying three-quarter the state vote and say if three-quarter the states do it (1:05:26) Yeah, that sounds like a great that is a that is a potential process (1:05:30) You know Lee the thing (1:05:32) the thing is that (1:05:34) Ben Franklin didn’t send King George a carrier pigeon and said hey, you know (1:05:39) We’re kind of feeling like we might want to leave right? Is that okay with you? (1:05:43) say part of self-determination is (1:05:45) Bye, we’re gone. Your rules no longer apply (1:05:48) So so if New Hampshire or Texas or South Dakota or California says we would like to leave I think that’s it (1:05:55) That’s it.The other state shouldn’t have to vote on whether they allow it or not (1:05:59) It’s not a mutual question. I support the good lateral succession (1:06:02) just like if it was a marriage and (1:06:05) If I’m abusing my wife or she’s abusing me and one of us takes off and disappears (1:06:10) That’s it. They’re gone (1:06:12) There may be some legal unpacking to do maybe some stuff to sort out still (1:06:20) Paperwork, I know some people didn’t sign the paperwork (1:06:26) I guess is my point is still (1:06:30) Well, here’s a funny one.I was on a date with a woman and I met her for coffee and she (1:06:35) divulged that her ex-husband was in jail and I’m like (1:06:40) Okay, and she’s like, oh he’s in jail for murder and I’m like, okay, and then she’s like, oh by the way (1:06:45) I’m not technically divorced from him. He were he’s assigned the paperwork. I’m like have a great night (1:06:51) It’s nice (1:06:53) Just to your point is the consent thing.So justin’s got another great question. Yeah (1:06:58) Once again, this is this is why I love because and I know you got an answer (1:07:02) So so he’s asking what you would think about that how the taxes should look like in an independent state like a Texas (1:07:08) Mmm, that’s a fun one (1:07:11) Number one would be that the United States (1:07:16) spends unsustainably right now (1:07:18) So to do it the way the United States does it right now would be a big fat mistake, right? (1:07:25) You know, we overspend on military. We overspend on social programs.We underspend on taking care of infrastructure (1:07:32) We underspend on taking care of the border (1:07:35) The United States priorities on spending are screwed up to the max already (1:07:40) So each state then becomes obligated to decide how they want to spend (1:07:46) Their their budget now I say I say that there are no federal dollars that did not originate with (1:07:54) Individuals or states, right? There is no federal money. It’s your money. It’s my money.They take it from us (1:07:59) They drop it in a pool. They drain out half of it and give it to the back and then they print (1:08:05) They pretend like they’re helping us by giving us a portion of our money back (1:08:10) So so that to say, you know a Texas (1:08:13) You know would would have to decide would get to decide that’s the point the freedom, right? (1:08:18) They would get to decide how much do we want to ask from our citizens? (1:08:22) And what do we want to spend it on? So, California bless their hearts, right? (1:08:26) they they may want to continue to tax very high and they may want to do universal health care and (1:08:33) Actually fund some fire departments or something, right? (1:08:36) They may want to do that (1:08:38) They may say I would rather be just like Denmark and they they may tax it 60% or something and provide tons of services (1:08:44) New Hampshire or Rhode Island might say well, there’s only 11 of us so we can’t do that. So what if we (1:08:51) You know, what if we just tax and maintain roads and minimal court systems, right? I mean each place gets to decide that’s the point (1:08:58) You know (1:09:02) Are we talking volunteeristic or volunteerism and like (1:09:07) It’s (1:09:09) Right (1:09:12) Yeah, if we if we go to this tribal concept, well if we don’t be centralized enough where the central (1:09:19) Conglomerate doesn’t have that much power then.Absolutely. Absolutely (1:09:26) Yeah, it’s the crony capitalism right we’re talking about my roads, right we (1:09:30) Like (1:09:32) There was a national transportation interstate system and the government took it over and hijacked it and pay okay fine great (1:09:41) but all the other roads all the other infrastructure for (1:09:46) Customers to get from you know from companies of customers. They know they needed customers to buy this (1:09:52) Mm-hmm.That was before that was in implemented. So (1:09:55) And then obviously they scaled it out but like it I I will say it’s it’s not even like how will taxes work (1:10:04) It’s it’s funny and I (1:10:05) Justin I love Justin, but it’s like why are we already justifying taxes? (1:10:11) Doing here so I can tell you (1:10:13) What it is is why are we justifying being fiscally responsible as a smaller community of people now now that we have our now that (1:10:21) We’re directly involved with the put with the paycheck and our checkbook because every single decision you make is gonna cost you (1:10:29) Directly, you don’t see it in the government structure the way it is now like here’s a great number (1:10:35) We had coded right? You got $1,200 from from the government. Okay, that was 5% of that bill (1:10:42) So think about this.Oh, yeah, there’s 20. There’s 20 parts, right? (1:10:46) 1 5th 5% is 1 20th. So we as Americans spent (1:10:51) $24,000 to get 1,200 back.Yep, and we’re going where’s the 22-8? Where’s that? (1:10:59) Right. So here those numbers (1:11:02) I bought a compact car. Yeah, nothing, you know, no reason so same same (1:11:09) I uh, Joe Biden bought my last car sort of I mean right and then we’re even printed more on top of it (1:11:13) The taxes aren’t even enough well, and then they’re wondering why there’s inflation when they throw a bunch of extra money in but (1:11:23) So my answer to Justin’s original question besides it depends on a lot of things is that I can tolerate (1:11:30) Consumption taxes more, you know (1:11:32) If I drive on the road (1:11:33) I should probably pay for part of that road and whether I do it through the gas or tolls or what? (1:11:39) It should be consumption based if I choose to do it (1:11:42) I should choose I should get to pay I would say honestly the same thing goes with fire departments (1:11:46) Maybe we don’t all have to sign up a contract to be part of the fire department (1:11:50) But that’s a local issue, right if I want fire I should pay for fire (1:11:54) Maybe if I choose not to pay for fire, I should be excluded (1:11:58) Maybe maybe it’s a an opt-out scenario not often where everybody in this in this lines pays (1:12:04) You know 1% on their property taxes so that we can have fire and if you say if you know (1:12:08) I don’t want to do that.Cool. Your house just burns down, right? (1:12:12) You can make that choice, right? (1:12:14) That’s kind of kind of where I land (1:12:17) Taxes are an inevitability like with the government structure in some way. You’re not you’re not living some utopian thing (1:12:23) You’re looking at a realistic practical approach to this to this.Can we provide the minimal amount of services with the minimum amount of coercion? (1:12:34) We need some services, but they need to be as (1:12:39) Non coercive as possible. They can’t just take your house if you fail to pay your taxes, for example, and I did misspeak for Justin (1:12:46) He says he thinks taxation is theft (1:12:48) Some revenue would have to come from the state used to use taxes as a default for revenue (1:12:52) And I think we just covered that same thing is like let’s not live in a utopian world where this whole thing (1:12:56) Yeah, we know we know that there are some things what we’re finding though (1:13:00) Is this ability to have a printing press with the Fed for example is? (1:13:05) Absolutely drowning us we were talking about the dollar being only three percent of its original value (1:13:13) What is going on here? The bubble has to break unfortunately, and it’s not that we want it (1:13:19) But we foresee it and for seeing it is where we can change (1:13:23) So let’s more of us foresee this pivot a little bit. Let’s let’s break us up a little bit.Let’s you know, let’s let you go (1:13:30) Yeah, come back then you will always loved us and if you go away it was never meant to be yeah (1:13:36) We see that we see that in relationships all the time if you find a spouse, it’s okay if you don’t it’s okay (1:13:43) Maybe you get back together. It’s okay. Maybe you stay single forever.It’s okay, right? (1:13:47) Like all these options are on the table, but I love let’s let’s circle back and kind of close out with your your analogy (1:13:54) about the airplane you said (1:13:56) that when you are in (1:13:58) Crisis and in danger (1:14:01) Your obligation is to land the plane while the engine is running (1:14:05) Because then you get to choose a safe place to land if you wait until the engine dies in this crisis (1:14:12) You don’t get to choose and you don’t have control. So I love that (1:14:16) I’m gonna steal it because that’s what I that’s what I mean about national divorce (1:14:20) You know if you choose to separate while you still have the choice (1:14:24) It’s so much better of an outcome so much more likelihood of a peaceful outcome so much more likelihood of a (1:14:31) Constructive outcome it will suck to go through but it will you just have a better result (1:14:37) I think so. That’s that’s why I advocate for this (1:14:40) well (1:14:41) I hope that becomes a quote for me because you know (1:14:43) I’d love to love to be one of those people that no one ever heard of that has one (1:14:46) Quote that has one famous quote one with a name next to it and like who’s this? (1:14:51) Yeah, he doesn’t have a wiki page what’s wrong with him in crisis (1:14:54) Land the plane before the engine goes out.Yeah. Yeah always better always better land under power and choose your spot (1:15:00) So one last thing but before we call it a day. I want you to share all your stuff again (1:15:05) Once again, I am so grateful for your time Jason (1:15:08) I know you have a family and you have a bunch of stuff you get called away to millions like 18 times (1:15:14) We totally understand what I’m just grateful that you found the time to share (1:15:18) Justin he grew up to to he grew up from 2 to 10 years old in Midland, Odessa, Texas (1:15:25) Many are other family members (1:15:28) Said many other family members have always said that if Texas Texas decease they’d go back (1:15:35) Yeah.Yeah, so and and Jason from drop the mattress says hi friends (1:15:42) It’s a buddy so (1:15:44) Very cool. Oh once again, thank you again for your time Jason (1:15:48) Please share everything that you share about your information how we can get a hold of you your book your knives everything (1:15:55) If what I said doesn’t strike you as totally crazy and you think man, that’s an interesting guy (1:15:59) Here’s where you can find me. So for knives it is fry custom knives comm (1:16:04) For the website and fry custom knives on Instagram and YouTube.Okay for politics (1:16:10) It is Jason K fry on Twitter X (1:16:15) and (1:16:15) National dash divorce calm for the book content. So that dash is really important national dash divorce calm (1:16:23) Yeah, and if you just give me everything I’ll put everything in the show. No.Yeah, you bet (1:16:27) Oh, I’ll email it to you back in a second (1:16:30) Awesome. Well, thank you again for everybody who came and showed up. We had about 20 people today (1:16:35) Also, we couldn’t see him, but I’m glad you came (1:16:38) There you go, that’s what we else we can never see anybody (1:16:41) I know it was Gracie.We had Jason Jason I were on and right before we jumped off. We got to 101 (1:16:49) Digits like you know for us, it’s like the (1:16:55) What I’m do is I’ll put everything up and share and if you have anything else we’re just grateful (1:17:00) Welcome to the Knocked Conscious family. Yeah, and it sounds like you have good ideas you you I’ll connect you with my podcast (1:17:06) I did with the New Hampshire guys.I might collaborate and get some other ideas on policy that yeah, you know, yeah (1:17:13) not directly because (1:17:15) Talk to a few of those guys Carla and Lou and some of those. Yeah. Okay, but yeah, definitely (1:17:21) Yeah, any anybody that’s that hears this later and says I’d like to talk to that guy some more.This is my (1:17:28) Crap fit 20th 30th 25th podcast. I mean, I’m I can do this anytime (1:17:33) just with the equal (1:17:36) Equally terrible quality, right? (1:17:39) You know what it’s all about the heart so and Jason does say read national divorce a plan for peace it is fire (1:17:48) Thank you so much Jason for joining (1:17:51) Thank you for Jason for joining in the chat at the end and Justin for all the questions (1:17:56) I hope we asked answered them all. I know Justin will probably be on tomorrow because we got a panel tomorrow at 7 p.m (1:18:02) Eastern 5 p.m. Arizona time.Thank you again for joining and I’m gonna click stop here and we’ll talk offline sir. Thank you again (1:18:09) Thank you. Take care