Chris and Mark discuss the PBS documentary “The Eugenics Crusade” (link below). We also discuss “new eugenics” (CRISPR, etc.) and their ramifications.
https://www.pbs.org/video/the-eugenics-crusade-jtaetc/
Intro Music: “Blue Scorpion” Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com) Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/
Dive Horn: https://freesound.org/s/104882
Trombone Wah-Wah-Wah-Waaaaah: https://freesound.org/s/175409
Outro Music: “Neolith” Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com) Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/
Transcript:
(0:05) Broadcasting live from the Treehouse in Phoenix, Arizona. (0:08) It’s Knocked Conscious. (0:10) With Mark Poles and Chris Woodsey-Peralta.(0:13) From the home offices in Gilbert, Arizona. (0:20) Welcome, sir. (0:21) Sir, how are you? (0:23) Good, how are you doing? (0:24) I’m doing great.(0:27) Happy Christmas, Merry Boxing Day, all that good stuff. (0:30) Oh, yes. (0:31) Today is the 27th? (0:32) Of the Boxing Days.(0:33) It is the 27th of December. (0:35) December 27th, 2020. (0:37) Yes.(0:37) COVID going nasty. (0:38) Tears in the UK. (0:40) Tears and tears.(0:42) Tears 1, 2, 3, 4, and tears. (0:44) I was like, meh. (0:45) Wah.(0:45) Oh, those tears. (0:47) Tears. (0:47) Two tears.(0:48) And tears. (0:48) And allegedly, those numbers are ramping up, sir. (0:51) But.(0:51) Okay. (0:52) We’re between, obviously, Boxing Day. (0:55) We’re Twix the Hedges.(0:56) We are Twix the Hedges. (0:58) Twix Christmas and New Year’s. (1:00) This one is a Knocked Conscious.(1:01) Yes, it is. (1:02) So, this one’s serious. (1:04) Serial.(1:05) What’s it about, sir? (1:05) What’s the title of this one? (1:08) Eugenics. (1:08) And megenics. (1:09) All of our eugenics.(1:10) All the genics. (1:11) Yes. (1:11) It’s funny, it’s eugenics, but there’s an E at the front.(1:13) Yeah. (1:13) It’s like pa-Philadelphia. (1:14) It is, but it’s kind of like the European Union genics.(1:17) Yes. (1:18) The Eugenics. (1:20) Eugenics.(1:20) Which is interesting. (1:22) It totally is. (1:23) Okay.(1:23) This was a documentary that I came across on PBS like a year ago, and I found it really (1:28) interesting, and I had no idea about it. (1:32) And then I put it on the list of things that we might talk about, and then we both re-watched (1:37) it, and Psycho Checkmark took five pages of notes or something ridiculous like that, and (1:44) we’re going to discuss the pros and cons of eugenics and what it is and how it became (1:51) a global phenomenon, so to speak. (1:54) Rise and fall of.(1:55) And because it was even more like eugenics was interesting back then because they didn’t (1:58) have the technology we have now. (2:00) Now it’s even, eugenics is even a different conversation than it was then. (2:04) Well, it’s scarier now.(2:06) Yeah. (2:06) Because back then it was just sterilization, right? (2:08) So we’ll talk about all that, but it was basically- (2:10) In a way, yeah, but- (2:11) Basically, we think you’re good, don’t breed with that guy who’s bad, but you don’t know (2:15) what comes across. (2:16) Now with CRISPR and all that stuff, we’ll definitely get into that.(2:19) So I looked it up because I’m like halfway through the documentary, which is less than (2:22) two hours on PBS, it’s free. (2:25) Well, first of all, it’s called The American Experience is the name of the show on PBS, (2:31) and then Eugenics Crusade is the name of the episode. (2:34) Episode, season 30, I believe it’s episode 11.(2:37) That is correct, sir. (2:38) I think that’s what it was. (2:39) About halfway through, I thought, okay, what exactly does eugenics mean? (2:43) What’s the definition in English? (2:45) Because they did tell what’s the definition in Greek, I think, which we’ll get to that, (2:49) but are you okay if I read the definition in- (2:52) Absolutely.(2:52) In English? (2:54) That’s a great start. (2:55) The science of improving a human population by controlled breeding to increase the (3:03) occurrence of desirable heritable characteristics, developed largely by Francis Galton, (3:12) who we will talk about, as a method of improving the human race. (3:16) The science of improving a human population by controlled breeding.(3:20) Yep. (3:21) I think it’s expanded, though. (3:23) I really do believe that that’s expanded, because now it’s genetic manipulation in vitro and all that, (3:29) where they didn’t have that in the 30s.(3:33) What does in vitro have to do with eugenics? (3:36) Well, it’s about picking out … You can pick the egg that doesn’t have … (3:41) Remember our podcast about the first cousin marriages? (3:45) Yeah. (3:45) They can do a blood test ahead of time to see if things cross over. (3:50) In vitro, you can remove certain cancers in the embryonic stage (3:57) before you even do the implanting or the fertilization of the egg.(4:03) Okay. I forgot all about that part of that. Yeah.(4:07) With DNA splicing and everything like that now. (4:09) Right, right, right. (4:09) We talked about CRISPR with the Chinese twins.(4:12) Yes. (4:13) That’ll come up. I feel like eugenics is all of that.(4:17) What is CRISPR? (4:20) We’ll get into CRISPR later. (4:22) You can’t throw the goddamn term around. (4:25) Okay, bro.(4:26) CRISPR is a gene editing tool, splicing, used by biochemists and whatnot (4:31) to remove and add DNA to current strands of DNA. (4:38) I think I asked you this question a while ago. (4:42) Is that what that movie Gattaca’s about? (4:44) Yeah, we talked about Gattaca, (4:45) and I think we were going to talk about that later as well.(4:47) We were? Okay. (4:48) With that CRISPR thing, the whole thing. (4:50) We’ll get into exactly what all that is.(4:53) I can give you a quick simplified definition. (4:56) But basically, the thing is, is eugenics just … (4:59) It’s about birth, but now it’s beyond because we can do it outside the body. (5:04) Right? (5:05) I mean, we can do some things outside the body that weren’t just … (5:08) You can’t have kids or can’t have kids.(5:10) Right? (5:11) Because that’s how it started. (5:11) So are you talking about body modification? (5:14) Well, no, I was just talking about … (5:15) What are you talking about? (5:15) Like outside of the body? (5:17) Well, I’m saying because in vitro fertilization, you can take an egg … (5:20) Oh, okay. (5:21) … and manipulate it, and then put it into something.(5:23) It’s not just done randomly. (5:25) Because even though you have good stocks, per se, (5:29) and we’ll talk about how they got the good breeding and whatnot, (5:32) even with good breeding, you still have irregularities (5:34) because it’s not 100%, right? (5:36) It’s just a lower percentage of or a higher percentage of. (5:39) Yes.(5:40) But depending on what … (5:41) Yes, yes. (5:41) … intelligence, looks, all of those personality types and traits, right? (5:47) Yeah. (5:47) So anyway, CRISPR design tool.(5:50) It’s a gene knockout design tool. (5:52) Oh, that sounds great. (5:54) Yeah.(5:55) You can just … (5:55) You can … (5:57) It simplifies gRNA design. (6:00) Ooh. (6:01) You can design RNAs to guide gRNA.(6:05) What about like Wranglers and Levi’s and those? (6:09) Well, those are delicious, and they look great. (6:11) The 501s, the button fly. (6:13) Only the button fly.(6:15) So let’s … I apologize. (6:16) I’ve tangented already way too much. (6:19) Let’s get back to eugenics.(6:21) Okay. (6:21) Specifically what it was about. (6:22) Okay.(6:22) How did the documentary start? (6:24) Well, first of all, I like to set the timeline because I’m psycho. (6:28) So … (6:29) It starts with the end. (6:30) Well, okay.(6:32) Eugenics basically started in 1902 and ran through the 1930s, (6:38) through the Depression. (6:40) So everyone has an idea of the timeline of when it transpired (6:47) and when it became popular culture. (6:50) And I had no idea that it was even a thing, (6:53) even a thing in America, and a big thing in America.(6:56) But to your point, it started in … (7:00) The show started in 1934 in San Francisco, (7:03) where a … (7:06) What do you want to call her? (7:07) She was an elitist. (7:09) She was a well-to-do. (7:10) She was the great-granddaughter of the guy (7:13) who invented the first steam locomotive, the Tom Thumb.(7:16) So her name was Ann Cooper Hewitt. (7:19) Yes. (7:20) And she was a great-grandson of … (7:23) Is it Peter Hewitt or something like that? (7:24) And anyway, he … (7:26) Basically, they were well-to-do.(7:28) They were well-off. (7:29) And so she was … (7:31) She wasn’t like a movie star or … (7:33) But she was … (7:34) She was rich. (7:34) Right, but she was born into wealth.(7:37) Correct. (7:37) She was a young lady in her 30s, right? (7:40) Yes. (7:40) No kids, never married.(7:43) At this time, no. (7:44) At that point. (7:45) Correct.(7:47) And her mom … (7:49) She went into the hospital for an appendicitis, right? (7:52) Appendectomy. (7:53) She came out of the hospital (7:57) and later learned that she had been made sterile. (8:01) Yes, a section of her fallopian tubes were removed, allegedly.(8:04) And that was August 18th, 1934. (8:07) 1934, there you go. (8:08) To your point, yeah.(8:09) So in basically the middle of the Depression, in Frisco. (8:11) She was deemed … (8:13) Or she was called the sterilized heiress. (8:17) And then she sued her mother and the surgeons (8:21) for $500,000 in 1936, (8:24) which I read something equivalent to like $9 million today.(8:28) That’s a lot of money, dude. (8:29) But that might have been a 10-years-ago article, (8:30) so it might be even more than that. (8:32) Right, yeah.(8:32) But $500,000 in 1936? (8:34) That’s a lot, yeah. (8:35) Holy mackerel. (8:36) That is a crap ton.(8:38) And basically she sued her mother (8:39) and the two surgeons who were in the operation, (8:42) who performed the operation. (8:44) So why did her mother want her to be sterilized? (8:50) Well, that’s where it gets a little gray. (8:54) What were her mother’s motives? (8:56) Right.(8:57) She claims she did what she did for society’s sake. (9:01) She claimed that her daughter was what’s called feeble-minded, (9:04) which we probably call some kind of mental challenges nowadays. (9:08) Feeble-minded is a lower IQ or lower intelligence, I guess.(9:11) They didn’t really have IQ at the time, (9:13) so lower intelligence. (9:17) Yeah, so she claimed that her daughter was feeble-minded (9:21) and that what she did was for society’s sake, (9:23) so she couldn’t bring a lesser human into this world. (9:27) And it was legal, (9:28) because the state at the time had a law (9:32) allowing for sterilization for feeble-mindedness.(9:35) Which is terrifying. (9:38) Scary. (9:39) And we’ll get into how that all happened.(9:41) And once again, isn’t it always like (9:44) the initial idea of a better society is always a great start? (9:50) Yeah. (9:50) But then who deems what’s better? (9:53) Right. (9:53) And I mean, there’s so many questions that come up, (9:55) and these will come up as we talk about this.(9:56) And there was a lot of, (9:57) they interviewed a lot of doctors and historians and writers (10:01) and people that appeared smart. (10:04) And they said, yeah, it’s a great idea, (10:07) but the underbelly of it is fear and hate (10:11) and the fact that the elites were the ones (10:15) who were deciding what was acceptable. (10:19) So that’s a problem.(10:21) From my perception, that’s a problem. (10:24) And this is the controversy with this particular person. (10:28) It’ll come full circle.(10:29) Do we want to talk about it at the end, (10:30) or do we want to just bang out the whole story (10:33) and then talk about the middle part? (10:35) Yeah, let’s just finish. (10:35) I’m of the opinion that we just finish the story. (10:38) Yeah, so let’s finish this.(10:39) So basically, what happened was, (10:42) there was a thought, though, that in the gentleman’s will, (10:45) her father’s will, the mother’s husband, (10:51) without children, she does not get the fortune, (10:54) and Cooper Hewitt would not get the fortune of the family (10:58) if she did not have children. (10:59) Right. (11:00) So it would go to the mom.(11:01) It would then go to the mother. (11:02) So that was the mom’s motive. (11:04) So they’re not certain, right? (11:07) Because she, to that time, claimed that it was because (11:12) of her daughter’s feeble-mindedness (11:13) and that it was legal that you could sterilize (11:16) feeble-minded people at the time in 1934 when it happened.(11:21) However, it would make sense to me that if I knew the will (11:25) and I was greedy and I was a human just like everyone else, (11:28) I would probably do the same thing. (11:30) Like, it’s legal to say that she’s feeble-minded and all that. (11:34) So what did you find interesting about how they determined (11:37) her to be feeble-minded? (11:38) Do you remember that? (11:41) What I do recall was that the defense for the doctor (11:49) said that she would be a bad mom.(11:53) That’s it. (11:55) Right. (11:56) Did I miss something? (11:57) Well, remember they administered, like, an intelligence test? (11:59) Oh, yes.(12:00) Like, 20 minutes before they actually put her in the thing. (12:03) Yes. (12:03) So it just seemed like dumped on her.(12:05) Yes. (12:05) And she’s like, why are you asking me these questions? (12:07) Right. (12:07) They asked her very challenging questions like, (12:11) what river dumps into Lake blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, (12:13) in the middle of nowhere that no one’s ever heard of? (12:15) Or what’s the longest river in the United States? (12:16) While she’s in excruciating pain waiting to have her appendix removed.(12:20) Right. (12:21) So that’s pretty messed up. (12:23) Like, no one knows the answer to that question.(12:26) Not even the smartest dude on Jeopardy knows that shit. (12:29) So, yes. (12:30) Okay.(12:31) Now I do remember that. (12:32) Yes. (12:32) And I think that was the setup, right? (12:34) Oh.(12:34) That’s how they determined her feeble-mindedness, (12:37) was through this weird intelligence. (12:39) But go ahead. (12:40) She was fluent in three languages.(12:41) Yes. (12:42) So how can you be labeled as, (12:45) well, feeble-minded was one of several terms they used for lesser intelligence. (12:48) How can you be labeled as lesser intelligence (12:50) if you’ve mastered three languages? (12:53) Yeah.(12:53) That seems ridiculous. (12:55) It was pretty crazy. (12:57) So, anyway, that’s what that was all about, right? (13:02) So that’s the whole story about this one woman who was sterilized.(13:06) So the question is, was it really because of this feeble-mindedness that they claim? (13:11) To me, to your point, if I were to put money on it, (13:14) if I were to put a bet on it, (13:15) I would bet that she was doing it so that she could have the fortune of her husband. (13:22) Yeah, it’s sad, but I would agree that that is correct. (13:26) She used the law in her favor as a, you know, (13:31) not a loophole because it was clearly written.(13:34) No, not a loophole at all. (13:35) I mean, that is, and then the judge, after six days, (13:41) threw the case out of court because the law states that you can sterilize somebody. (13:47) Right.(13:49) That’s crazy. (13:50) Yeah, they’re just like, the law is the law. (13:53) And that wasn’t that long ago.(13:55) 1934 is less than 100 years ago. (13:58) That’s not, in the time span of humanity, (14:00) that’s not that long ago. (14:02) We have full vehicles that are on production assembly lines at that point.(14:08) Yeah. (14:08) We’ve got airplanes. (14:09) We’ve got airplanes.(14:10) Yes. (14:10) We’ve got basically every, yeah, we’ve modernized it more now. (14:15) We had reciprocal engines back then, (14:17) but back then we have everything, (14:19) almost now other than social media, internet possibly.(14:22) Well, we didn’t have computers, but we had phones. (14:23) Right, we didn’t have computers in the traditional sense, (14:26) but we had telephones. (14:28) Yeah.(14:28) We had telegraphs. (14:29) We had flight. (14:30) Yeah.(14:31) We had mass transit, or at least- (14:35) Trains, for sure. (14:36) Well, trains, but also cars as well, right? (14:38) Oh, right, right, right. (14:38) Steam engine, right? (14:39) Yeah, yeah, yeah.(14:39) Everything was big. (14:40) So we’re industrialized at that point. (14:41) Oh, very much so.(14:42) Yeah. (14:43) I mean, this is in the middle of the Depression. (14:44) Right, right at the Depression there.(14:46) So we’re, you know, and so eugenics was here about controlling human reproduction, right? (14:52) It was a scientific solution for social problems. (14:56) It was like a combination of hope on one side and fear and hate on the other. (14:59) You actually mentioned that earlier.(15:01) Yeah. (15:01) What are your thoughts on all that? (15:03) I think that’s absolutely correct, that the idea that, hey, the original idea was to, (15:10) if we, if the original gentleman’s idea, Francis Galton, is that correct? (15:16) Yes, Galton, I think is how they said it, but same thing, Galton, Galton. (15:19) Out of Long Island, New York, his original idea was, if we can have, somehow determine (15:27) the hereditary traits of people, and if those traits are bad, alcoholism, criminality, negative (15:37) things, and those people don’t procreate, but the people that are stronger and smarter, (15:43) they do procreate, we can create a better society.(15:48) Well, is that a good idea or not? (15:52) It doesn’t seem bad. (15:54) Right. (15:54) I don’t know.(15:56) That’s the thing, is the concept, better humans, like they said, better babies was one of the (16:01) big statements. (16:02) Yeah, right. (16:03) Making better babies, like, who doesn’t want better babies? (16:06) They said healthier.(16:07) Who doesn’t want a healthier society? (16:09) Yeah. (16:10) Right, and so those are the things. (16:12) We’ll get into the philosophies of that, and that’s where the contradictions come in, right? (16:16) Yes.(16:16) But one of the things I found early on that they talked about, it didn’t start with Nazi (16:20) Germany. (16:21) Whenever you hear eugenics, a lot of people tied it to Nazi Germany. (16:26) That was very interesting because Hitler had the Aryan Nation, right? (16:29) Right.(16:30) Remember the blonde hair, blue eyes? (16:30) But I never… (16:32) But you didn’t even know about it. (16:33) I mean, I obviously knew the Aryan race and Hitler’s obvious attempt to make a master race, (16:41) and you know that the term master race was coined by Hitler, right? (16:44) Right. (16:44) But I didn’t know that’s what eugenics was.(16:47) Right. (16:47) I had no idea. (16:48) I never heard the term eugenics until I watched that two-hour special, you know? (16:52) That’s so… (16:53) But you’re right.(16:54) If you had heard eugenics, many people did tie it to Nazi Germany. (16:58) Yeah, because it was a whole master race thing. (16:59) You didn’t think anything about the Americans doing anything of the sort.(17:02) No, not at all. (17:03) Nothing of the sort. (17:03) No.(17:04) Right? (17:05) But it wasn’t even a fringe idea in the 30s, the mid-30s. (17:08) It had already taken, to your point, 1902 is when it started. (17:11) 1910 is when it really took off.(17:13) Right. (17:13) With Davenport and those other guys, right? (17:16) So it was a utopian idea, making better people. (17:20) Like, that was the whole thing.(17:21) It was about having healthy children, stronger society, you know? (17:26) But the thing is, some pretty horrific things were done in that name, right? (17:30) In the name of eugenics. (17:31) It’s kind of… (17:32) It’s funny, because they talk about it later as it being like a religion, right? (17:36) Yeah, one guy felt like… (17:38) What’s his name? (17:39) The second-in-command guy thought he was like… (17:42) Laughlin guy? (17:42) Yes, correct. (17:43) He was like an evangelist.(17:46) Yeah. (17:46) And I was like, oh, that’s not good. (17:48) Yeah, he’s selling his idea.(17:50) Yeah, the idea should kind of sell itself. (17:53) So, to your point, fall 1902, Charles Benedict Davenport, he’s 36, Harvard, (17:57) meeting with Sir Francis Galton, and he was in his 80s at the time, in England, (18:02) I believe he went on a trip. (18:03) Oh, right, right, right.(18:04) And his motto, this Galton guy’s motto, whenever you can, count. (18:08) I think that’s pretty smart. (18:09) He was a numbers guy.(18:10) Yeah, and he was about stats, right? (18:13) It could all be written down and created at that point. (18:16) He created weather maps, fingerprinting for finding people. (18:22) That was pretty cool.(18:23) I thought that was an interesting thing about Francis Galton. (18:24) The dude started fingerprinting. (18:25) Yeah.(18:25) That’s crazy. (18:26) For criminality or to identify fingerprints, right? (18:30) And then also, he also had the parameters for the perfect cup of tea. (18:34) A spot of tea, was he? (18:38) He was related to? (18:44) Darwin.(18:44) Darwin, thank you. (18:45) Yes, he was the half-cousin of Charles Darwin. (18:49) So, it did seem like these families of, I mean, (18:56) Smart people? (18:56) They’re generally white people at this point.(18:58) They’re all in Europe, so it’s pretty much white people. (19:00) But the better offs, the higher to-dos all seem to be related in some weird way, right? (19:06) This Galton guy was able to have his university and be super smart, (19:09) and he happens to be the half-cousin of Darwin. (19:12) You know what I mean? (19:13) Once again, it kind of goes into family and how important family lineage was definitely at that point.(19:19) It’s still important nowadays, but really back then, it just kind of set you for life or didn’t in a weird way. (19:25) So, you’re saying that it gave those two guys the ability to do research and it set them up to? (19:33) Certainly afforded them better opportunities than some guy, you know, that’s a Thatcher. (19:39) Thatcher’s son.(19:40) William Thatcher? (19:41) Like a Thatcher’s son. (19:42) Like in Knott’s Tale. (19:45) So, created weather maps, and then Galton’s theory, right, was talent or intelligence seemed to run in certain families.(19:54) If we get people with high, quote-unquote, talent to mate with each other (19:57) and prevent people with low talent from mating each other, (20:00) in a few generations, we’d create a race of supermen. (20:06) And that was kind of the thought. (20:08) Was, okay, we get… (20:12) Just on its face, on that alone, what are your thoughts on that? (20:20) I’m a terrible person, dude.(20:23) I’m just going to spit it out. (20:27) Let’s say that actually happens, okay? (20:29) In the utopian idea of that, let’s say that actually does happen, (20:35) that in two to three generations that actually occurs, (20:38) no one is going to want to take the trash out. (20:41) No one’s going to want to pick strawberries, as my father threatened that I would do if I didn’t study.(20:48) And that’s, everyone’s going to be, oh, I’m smart, I don’t have to do that shit. (20:53) Well, uh, uh, um… (20:58) There’s always someone in the hind tit of the teat, or the back teat. (21:02) You know what I’m saying? (21:03) Yes, but if you create a race of super people, (21:08) you’re going to have everyone’s super people, (21:10) but the lower super people are the ones that are going to do those jobs? (21:14) And I understand that’s maybe a topic that we shouldn’t discuss.(21:19) No, it needs to be discussed. (21:22) For sure, so, to your point, yeah. (21:26) But even beyond that, on its face, though, (21:33) if just that concept of don’t have lessers breeding, (21:41) it doesn’t sound like a bad idea, (21:43) and I feel like a horrible human being for saying that I’d want to avoid that as much as possible.(21:49) Or at least breed maybe a lower talent with a higher talent. (21:52) Like, and even it out or something, you know what I mean? (21:55) Yeah. (21:56) But once again, you have to deem what talent is.(21:58) Okay, so let me ask. (21:59) What smarts is and what intelligence is and all that. (22:01) Yes.(22:02) So there was one lady who was shunned very much for her, (22:10) I’m skipping ahead, but the question I think is apropos. (22:14) She was a very large proponent of birth control, (22:19) and she was shunned for the majority of her public career (22:22) until she tied birth control to eugenics. (22:24) Then it gained popularity.(22:26) So one of her promotions was don’t have a child if you cannot financially handle it. (22:37) The financial burden of having a child or children. (22:40) Don’t have a kid if you can’t handle it financially.(22:43) Do you, what’s your take on that statement? (22:48) In a utopian world, I would love that all humans would recognize (22:54) whether they could afford financially and emotionally to have a child or two. (23:02) Of course, right. (23:03) I would love for people to do that.(23:06) The challenge is that in unfortunate circumstances (23:11) without proper early education or anything, (23:14) you have younger people having children that aren’t ready in the first place (23:18) but don’t know they’re not ready, for example. (23:21) But it’s already too late at that point, right? (23:23) You’re having the child now. (23:24) It’s already part of this society.(23:26) It sounds awful when I say it, but I feel like self-regulation is good. (23:30) We can’t force people to not, right? (23:34) In my opinion, though, if I were to have an opinion, (23:37) which this may end the podcast completely, (23:41) I feel that in this type of society, (23:45) childbirth would be a privilege, not a right. (23:49) Just like driving is a privilege and not a right.(23:52) And I think we should be licensed to be parents. (23:54) I know that sounds horrible. (23:56) Isn’t being a parent a privilege? (23:58) Isn’t that part of, like… (23:59) Right, but it’s not a right.(24:01) No. (24:01) We treat it like a right. (24:03) So my thought was to make it licensed.(24:06) Take a test. (24:08) Everyone has to do it. (24:10) This would be for betterment, in my opinion, (24:12) because we at least have all the same foundational start of parenting.(24:18) And then it goes astray by its own thing, (24:20) but at least we all start at the same point. (24:24) If we all had a guideline, right? (24:27) This is a really good way to raise your children. (24:30) Obviously, people would say what’s good and what’s not.(24:32) However, there’s a general good way. (24:34) Feed them when they’re hungry. (24:35) Clean them when they soil themselves.(24:37) You know, like the basic maintenance parts. (24:40) You know what I mean? (24:40) Child maintenance? (24:41) Don’t duct tape them and put them in a closet. (24:43) That’s probably a great idea.(24:44) That’s what the nuns did, dude. (24:46) But you understand what I’m saying? (24:48) Of course I do. (24:48) So what are your thoughts on my ridiculous comment? (24:51) So basically, to summarize, (24:56) Keanu Reeves summed it up very well (24:58) with his statement in the movie Parenthood.(25:01) You need to pass a test to get a driver’s license, (25:03) but any asshole can be a father. (25:06) Ta-da! (25:06) Oh, I didn’t even know he said that. (25:08) See, that’s exactly where I was.(25:09) That’s before he was Neo and before he was, you know, (25:11) super popular guy. (25:12) He said that to Steve Martin, I think. (25:15) I love Steve Martin, speaking of.(25:18) Yeah, so what are your thoughts on that? (25:21) Like, am I… (25:22) No, I agree with you. (25:24) Am I a fucking evil human being? (25:26) The issue is that you and I are not parents. (25:28) And the issue is that you and I, (25:31) I imagine, would be very, very good parents.(25:34) Not that you and I are looking to adopt a child together. (25:36) Because that would be weird. (25:40) Because we’re both responsible.(25:42) You know what I mean? (25:45) And we both think that… (25:48) Well, okay, I can’t speak for you. I’m sorry. (25:49) You can speak for me.(25:50) No, I cannot. (25:51) I’ll correct us. (25:52) I cannot.(25:55) I think I would be a really good parent. (25:57) I mean, obviously, it’s not going to happen. (25:58) I’m old and stuff.(25:59) But the point is, I agree with you that (26:04) we see neglect a lot. (26:07) And, you know, and that sucks. (26:10) And sometimes that neglect is not intentional.(26:12) A lot of the times, because of alcoholism or drug abuse (26:17) or a myriad of issues, right? (26:20) Some of the stronger kids come from neglect, though. (26:23) Well, of course. (26:24) Because they really learn to make their own mistakes.(26:26) Like, I, once again, my parents are great people. (26:31) But they were involved in everything. (26:34) And I could not make mistakes.(26:37) And I didn’t learn because I couldn’t make mistakes. (26:40) It wasn’t until I was on my own and really screwed up (26:42) and realized what debt was or what, you know, whatever was. (26:48) Because those types of, those are just personal things.(26:51) But overall, my parents took, like I said, on paper, (26:55) took great care of me. (26:58) Anyway, but you and I are also, I’m also self-aware to know (27:01) that I could break a child. (27:03) I’m emotionally not healthy.(27:06) Like, that’s the truth. (27:07) That’s not, you know. (27:08) Well, no one is 100% emotionally healthy.(27:10) I understand that. (27:11) And, obviously, every person is damaged in some way. (27:15) Therefore, every child is damaged.(27:16) But being aware of it. (27:18) Well, yeah. (27:18) We are, you and I, I think, are very self-aware of our shortcomings.(27:23) Whatever they may be. (27:24) Probably too much. (27:25) Right, probably too much.(27:26) And that’s definitely part of the reason for me not wanting children. (27:30) The whole thing is, I have a second year at 34, man. (27:33) That’s how it was.(27:34) It’s just, it made sense to me, for me. (27:37) I would not say that for anyone else. (27:39) However, I think it is really callous to have a child (27:45) and going completely blind, especially super young and not knowing.(27:50) You know? (27:50) That’s just my opinion. (27:51) Yeah, no, I agree. (27:53) But go ahead.(27:53) No, that’s all I have on that subject. (27:56) Let’s move along with eugenics. (27:58) All right, and we’ll talk about birth control again with this woman.(28:01) Yes. (28:01) She comes up. (28:03) So, you have the term eugenics.(28:06) What was the term that you got from the Latin? (28:09) Because that’s where we’re at now. (28:11) Latin, Greek, something like that. (28:12) It was a combination of two words.(28:15) Well and born. (28:18) Well-born eugenics. (28:20) Which I thought was interesting that they coined.(28:24) Or, was it Davenport or? (28:29) It might have been Galton. (28:30) I forget. (28:32) It might have been Davenport.(28:34) It doesn’t matter. (28:35) One of the two main guys. (28:37) Davenport or Galton.(28:38) One of the two, I believe. (28:38) Coined the phrase eugenics. (28:40) And then it became religious-like.(28:41) They were talking about it. (28:42) Well, in a way, yes. (28:44) And initially, Davenport opens up a thing.(28:46) He works with plants and animals and crossbreeds. (28:49) When you say open up a thing, what does that mean? (28:50) An institute of some sort. (28:52) On the North Shore of Long Island.(28:53) Yes. (28:54) He opens up a 10-acre establishment. (28:58) Sure.(28:59) What do you want to call it? (29:00) Compound. (29:00) Sure, yes. (29:02) Colt Compound.(29:02) No, come on, man. (29:03) It’s not like that. (29:04) It’s not like Waco.(29:05) They had birds and chickens and goats. (29:09) Did they have pterodactyls? (29:10) No pterodactyls. (29:11) It was a pterodactyl-free environment, sir.(29:15) There was one Chewbacca. (29:18) He tended to the goats. (29:20) He was a goat herder.(29:21) Scruffy Nerf Herder is what he was. (29:24) Of course it was. (29:26) So this is where Gregor Mendel comes in.(29:29) Gregor Mendel. (29:30) Yeah, he’s the guy who studied the heredity in peas. (29:33) Yes, yes.(29:34) And that’s where the whole thing was the Mendelian. (29:37) Remember when they started talking about Mendelian stuff? (29:40) It all tied back to him. (29:42) And he found certain characteristics in peas.(29:45) Yes. (29:46) But once again, a pea isn’t a human being. (29:49) It’s much more basic.(29:50) No, I’m pretty sure a pea is not a human being. (29:53) That’s what I’ve heard. (29:54) Now I’ve heard that human beings take them.(29:57) Peas? (29:58) Yeah. (29:58) And pea breaks. (29:59) Yes.(29:59) And we can be two peas in a pod. (30:01) We can. (30:02) And that’s it.(30:02) It’s like peas and carrots. (30:03) Like bubblegum. (30:07) But they weren’t, obviously this is very new, right? (30:11) They just realized all these new ways to study things.(30:16) So the assumptions would be, oh, a pea is a living thing. (30:19) So a human’s living, so it’s the same. (30:21) Or you wouldn’t think of the complexity in some cases, right? (30:24) So you’d think a lot simpler terms because it’s brand new.(30:27) These are brand new concepts that these people are. (30:29) So what was the law? (30:30) What did he learn from the peas? (30:34) It was about the law of heredity. (30:36) Okay.(30:38) But basically he was finding that he could cross or, you know, (30:43) pollinate or whatever, make peas have certain traits and characteristics (30:47) by combining them or something. (30:52) That’s my understanding of it. (30:54) What I remember was there was a drawing that, (30:58) there was the three-in-one rule that it was every, (31:05) shit, how do I explain it? (31:06) It was a ratio of three to one.(31:07) Right. (31:08) But I didn’t get very much in that because they didn’t talk, (31:13) they talked briefly about the three-in-one rule (31:15) and they had like a diagram up. (31:16) Yeah, but that three-in-one rule was, okay, if you have four peas, (31:21) three were the same, one wasn’t.(31:23) And that was true with every generation down, (31:25) so if they were breeding the peas, (31:29) that was true with every generation below that as well. (31:31) Then they found that to be true with chickens. (31:34) They found that to be true with other animals besides peas.(31:37) Is that correct? (31:38) That’s correct, yeah. (31:39) Okay, so that was the law of heredity. (31:41) Yeah, the law of heredity was, like you said, (31:44) it was a three-to-one ratio rule or whatever it was.(31:47) Something to that effect. (31:49) That that stuff could be passed down into like a ratio of three to one, right? (31:52) Yes. (31:52) So they had a three-quarter, you know, 75% chance basically.(31:55) Yes, correct. (31:56) Something like that. (31:57) Yes, thank you.(31:58) And they did, and then Davenport took it to other plants (32:03) and then added animals to your point with the chickens and all that. (32:05) Yeah. (32:05) Mendel only did the peas.(32:07) Yes, but they stole his idea from the peas, the three-in-one. (32:12) Correct, used that as a template for their studies. (32:15) Yes, correct.(32:16) And it really, yeah. (32:17) And they discovered that it was the same. (32:19) I mean, it was true with other things besides peas.(32:22) Yes. (32:22) And then they thought, you know, once again, (32:24) a natural step from breeding animals to breeding humans. (32:27) So then they were like, well, can we breed humans? (32:30) It’s like, well, no, because they take how long to develop, right? (32:32) 20, 30 years.(32:33) How long is recognized? (32:34) Right, it’s generations, right? (32:35) You can’t study a full, how many generations can you really study? (32:39) Three or four. (32:41) You need a much shorter kind of thing. (32:43) Yes.(32:43) But it did make sense, though, to go from thinking about the animals (32:47) to thinking about doing it with humans, right? (32:49) Agreed. (32:49) So this guy creates some family history questionnaires (32:52) and he traces the pedigrees and looks for desirable traits (32:55) in all of these questionnaires that he handed out, right? (32:58) And where did he send the questionnaires? (33:01) To a lot of well-born people, I thought. (33:03) I thought it was prisons.(33:05) Was that the prison one? (33:06) Yeah, pretty sure. (33:09) Yes, yes, yes, yes. (33:11) With prisons and also, like, they didn’t say insane asylums, (33:14) but that seems like what it was.(33:17) Yes, it was at the prison. (33:19) They were looking, well, they were looking for it everywhere, (33:21) not just on the high side. (33:22) No, of course.(33:22) They were looking for the bad people, too, (33:23) because that’s where the whole point of the next piece (33:27) that we’re going to talk about is about getting rid of the bad stuff. (33:30) Yes, undesirable traits. (33:32) Right, not adding good.(33:34) It’s just removing, to your point, alcoholism, the criminality, (33:38) and all these other negative societal issues, right? (33:42) Yes. (33:45) So they go, and a lot of these people were apprehensive (33:49) about the influx of immigrants, right? (33:50) Because this is a time when, was it, (33:57) these well-to-do people are leaving the front porch, (34:00) and the streets of New York are littered with just immigrants everywhere, (34:06) and they’re poor, and they’re dirty, and they’re, you know, (34:09) they’re lesser because they’re not. (34:11) Well, they’ve only been in America for a week, right? (34:13) Right, right.(34:14) And they probably don’t know English. (34:16) Yeah, absolutely. (34:17) Yeah, they’re trying to make a better life for themselves.(34:19) Because in the Northeast, Ellis Island is right there. (34:23) And they said 75,000 people a month were coming through Ellis Island. (34:26) That is a lot of people.(34:28) That’s a shit ton of people. (34:29) And think about those people. (34:30) Are they going to stay in New York? (34:31) Are they going to try to migrate to, (34:33) they’re going to go where the jobs are, right? (34:35) How do they feed their families? (34:37) That’s where the people are going to be.(34:38) That’s it. (34:39) That’s survival, right? (34:40) Right, that’s exactly what it was. (34:42) But this is the thing is, you know, (34:44) America was great because of these people that made America great.(34:47) Yes. (34:47) We talk about the guy that comes in later, (34:49) how he had relatives that signed the Declaration of Independence. (34:52) Yes.(34:53) And he came over on the fucking Mayflower, basically. (34:55) A pilgrim. (34:56) He was one of the Puritans, right, that came over.(34:58) Yes, exactly, correct. (34:59) So we’ll talk about that, of course. (35:01) But the immigrant thing was a big issue.(35:04) So they had this thing called the Progressive Movement. (35:06) Do you have any notes on the Progressive Movement and what that was about? (35:10) Was that Mr. Grant? (35:11) Or was that later on? (35:13) Henry Goddard was the guy in this one. (35:16) Okay, so they had a great belief in science, (35:19) but they also had a belief in the government solving social problems.(35:23) So it’s really interesting because initially, right, (35:27) the United States was founded on the lack of government, right? (35:30) Yes. (35:31) And here we are at this point, (35:32) and they’re saying the government should help solve social issues. (35:35) So they wanted to stamp out alcoholism, quote-unquote bad people.(35:39) And to your point, once again, you’re right, (35:41) Davenport studied all traits of humans, (35:43) once again, not just the high people, the highborn or whatever, (35:47) the educated, the smart, (35:49) but also the criminals and the alcoholics and the prisoners. (35:54) Drug addicts. (35:55) Yeah, and the mental institutions.(35:56) Of course, yeah. (35:58) So they started to zero in on low intelligence (36:02) and called that feeble-mindedness. (36:04) That’s where feeble-mindedness came up.(36:06) It just meant low intelligence. (36:08) That’s where the term was first established. (36:10) Is that correct? (36:11) That is correct.(36:12) So then this Henry Goddard guy comes in, right, 42 years old, (36:15) wanted to eliminate feeble-mindedness, (36:18) and he created some kind of intelligence test. (36:20) Do you want to take it from there? (36:23) Well, there was, no, that wasn’t, (36:25) I was thinking about the test they did in the military. (36:27) That wasn’t the same test, was it? (36:28) Not the same test.(36:29) This is the one where they had the three types of people. (36:31) Yeah, I knew that, but do you remember the test that they took? (36:34) He just created an intelligence test. (36:36) It was a very basic thing that he created.(36:38) Right, I do remember that they had three levels, (36:40) and it’s really sad because the levels that he created (36:44) are now terms that we use every single day (36:47) in a very derogatory way. (36:49) The levels were moron, idiot, and imbecile. (36:53) So I thought, that’s messed up.(36:56) And it was crazy because idiot was the bottom, (36:59) imbecile was the middle, and moron was actually the highest. (37:01) There were three types of moron. (37:03) Yeah, there were different levels of moron.(37:05) Right, so moron was just subhuman, (37:07) is basically the way they looked at it. (37:09) From an intelligence perspective. (37:10) Right, the term moron.(37:12) And it’s actually still a scientific term. (37:15) But we obviously have taken in the lexicon of… (37:18) Moron. (37:18) Yeah, you moron.(37:20) What’s the Goldbergs? (37:22) You moron. (37:23) And what are we supposed to do, you moron? (37:26) Like fucking Animal House. (37:27) Oh, yes.(37:29) So, idiot, imbecile, and moron were the three main types, right? (37:33) And he studied 35 patients. (37:35) He found a link between feeble-mindedness (37:39) due to defective ancestry. (37:41) That’s his words.(37:43) Defective ancestry. (37:44) Defective ancestry. (37:46) He found a link between feeble-mindedness and alcoholism, crime, etc.(37:50) So then he became a strong believer in eugenics. (37:53) And then we get into 1910. (37:55) Do you have any notes on that one? (37:57) If you have mine, you can use mine.(37:59) I’m just gonna steal your notes, bro. (38:00) Yeah, take them, bro. (38:03) Mr. Davenport was convinced (38:05) that certain human traits were passed down (38:08) in a predictable way.(38:11) And the American society can be improved dramatically (38:16) if reproduction was controlled. (38:21) Which I find disturbing. (38:24) But then again, I just said that it should be licensed.(38:27) So, is that a good type of control? (38:29) I mean, I’m different than people. (38:33) Please, everyone, don’t hate me forever. (38:35) I just feel this is a personal thing.(38:37) But I’m not on a crusade to do this, right? (38:40) I’ve chosen to deny of children myself. (38:42) So that’s just how I feel about it. (38:44) I’m allowed to have an opinion about it.(38:46) I don’t feel like I’m doing anything wrong by having an opinion. (38:49) Yeah, of course not. (38:50) But I mean, yeah.(38:52) But it’s controlled, right? (38:53) If it were licensed, it would be controlled in some way. (38:56) Who licenses it? (38:57) That’s my, not fear, that’s not the right word. (39:01) But how would the human race, (39:06) how would a government entity regulate that? (39:09) Oh, I’m sorry, it’s like a driver’s test.(39:11) Sorry, you couldn’t parallel park, you fail. (39:13) Oh, you only got 79%. (39:16) No kids for you.(39:17) You can retake it in a year if you study harder. (39:19) SAT, come on. (39:21) It’s a PAT, a parental advisory test.(39:23) That’s great. (39:24) Okay, you know what I mean? (39:25) Not a point after attempt, that’s different. (39:28) Totally different.(39:28) But wouldn’t it be great to have something (39:31) that everyone knew how to hold a baby the first time (39:35) or how to handle a baby (39:37) or how heavily responsible, (39:42) the responsibility of the baby, right? (39:44) I mean, look, I’ve heard a story of a woman (39:47) getting high at a party (39:48) and putting her baby on top of her fucking car. (39:51) Oh, shut up. (39:52) On the roof of the car, it was in Phoenix.(39:54) And she drives home and did a turn. (39:56) The baby was safe. (39:59) It was in the thing.(40:00) The car carrier. (40:01) The car carrier. (40:02) But holy shit, man.(40:05) Like, I understand people are still going to do that. (40:07) People are going to leave dogs in cars in Phoenix (40:10) in 120 degrees and not leave the motor running, (40:12) not leave a crack. (40:13) They’re going to leave children, (40:14) children are going to drown in pools, right? (40:16) Like, these things are still going to happen.(40:18) What were you saying about me drinking on this podcast today? (40:20) But can’t we minimize it? (40:21) Who? (40:23) Can’t we all just get along? (40:24) Can’t we just minimize those issues is my point, right? (40:27) I’m not saying that it’s going to eliminate them (40:29) because people are people. (40:31) We make mistakes. (40:31) We are fallible.(40:33) People are people. (40:34) Stuff and stuff, too. (40:35) Am I starting you to drink today? (40:36) Oh, yeah, dude.(40:37) Why? (40:37) I’ve already started drinking in my head, bro. (40:39) But it’s a good thing. (40:40) No, man.(40:40) It’s depressing. (40:41) Come on, man. (40:41) Control and regulation.(40:43) It’s beautiful. (40:43) Oh, yeah. (40:43) Control and regulation.(40:44) My favorite. (40:45) The one that you and I love. (40:47) Shit.(40:47) The one that, like, I’m talking about (40:49) putting a control system in place (40:50) and I hate fucking being told to do it. (40:52) You asshole. (40:52) I’m such a dick.(40:53) Hey, Mark. (40:54) You cannot burn the system down (40:56) until there’s another one in place, okay? (40:58) I’m trying to make a system to burn down later. (40:59) Oh, okay.(41:00) Duh. (41:01) Anyway. (41:02) So where are we at after that? (41:03) I don’t know, man.(41:04) I’m slitting my wrist. (41:05) That’s where I am. (41:06) So then they created a new institution, right? (41:09) Dedicated to eugenics.(41:10) Do you want to talk about the E.H. Harriman? (41:12) How that dude bled her money? (41:14) How he suckered her into that? (41:16) He suckered her. (41:17) Just kidding. (41:18) Yeah.(41:19) Mr. Davenport. (41:20) The main guy from Long Island. (41:24) Davenport was the main American figurehead.(41:30) He’s the American influence for sure. (41:32) He’s the main American figurehead (41:33) for all of eugenics. (41:36) He went to Mrs. Harriman in New York City.(41:41) Her husband passed away. (41:42) He was a railroad magnate or magistrate (41:46) or some shit like that (41:48) and left her with a boatload of money. (41:50) He was a magnate.(41:51) Sure. (41:52) Magnate or magnet. (41:53) The dude had a lot of cash, bro.(41:55) So he went and talked to her (42:00) and tried to get money from her (42:01) because he thought that she could be persuaded (42:04) that eugenics was a good thing (42:05) and he was successful in that (42:07) and she became a very good supporter (42:09) and she gave a ton of money to the eugenics cause (42:12) to help promote and publicize eugenics across the country. (42:18) Yes. (42:20) Yeah, Ms. E.H. Harriman.(42:22) So she had all the money. (42:23) It’s not an environment. (42:24) It’s genetics.(42:26) Eugenics would solve all the problems in society. (42:29) So she pledged money to him, right? (42:31) She pledged basically her loyalty or whatever (42:33) and a lot of financials. (42:35) But this is the question, right? (42:37) That was the next question.(42:38) Who decides what the correct feature should be? (42:43) What the correct what should be? (42:45) Features, right? (42:46) What does that mean? (42:46) Well, when we talk about eugenics, (42:47) who do we deem, (42:49) what features do we deem acceptable, desirable, (42:53) and what features do we deem not desirable (42:55) and who makes those decisions? (42:58) That’s the biggest problem with eugenics as a whole, right? (43:02) Is it whiteness? (43:04) Is it Asian? (43:06) Is it African American? (43:08) Is it person of color? (43:10) Is it indigenous? (43:11) Who’s the, what’s the right, you know, (43:14) genetic makeup to do, right? (43:16) How do we, (43:18) who chooses what are the features we’re looking for? (43:22) I don’t think there’s a right answer to that question. (43:25) Right, and that’s the biggest problem. (43:26) It’s like the same thing I just said about, (43:29) okay, well, who’s on the committee to allow (43:30) people to get licenses to have kids? (43:33) Who’s on the committee to write the test (43:34) that you have to take to have kids (43:36) in your little DMV department, (43:39) Department of Transportation? (43:40) Find me an unbiased test.(43:42) That’s the problem, (43:43) is that not only that, (43:45) but you can’t, (43:47) it’s kind of like on the Mars podcast. (43:49) Who’s going to be on your committee that, (43:51) you know what I mean? (43:52) Besides Keanu Reeves, (43:53) who’s going to be on the committee (43:55) that is going to be neutral (43:58) and peace and love (44:00) and what’s in the best interest of humanity? (44:03) I don’t know. (44:04) Everyone can be bought.(44:06) So at a certain point, (44:08) as I’ve said before, (44:10) what are you going to do? (44:12) Is there a right answer? (44:15) I don’t know if there is. (44:16) I don’t think there is. (44:17) That’s the biggest problem (44:18) with the whole eugenics, (44:19) is putting anyone in control (44:21) of a program like that, (44:23) they make a decision of what’s best.(44:25) Well, what they think is best. (44:27) Right. (44:28) And you can’t, (44:29) obviously you can’t make everybody happy (44:31) all the time, right? (44:32) So let’s say some dude or lady (44:34) makes a decision (44:35) and they think is in the best interest (44:38) of the human race.(44:39) Well, 26% of the people might go, (44:41) that’s bull crap. (44:42) This is horse shit. (44:43) You know, blah, blah, blah.(44:44) They might freak the fuck out, right? (44:45) You don’t know. (44:47) But they think, (44:47) they truly believe (44:49) that they’re doing the best thing (44:51) for the most amount of people. (44:54) But somebody may think (44:55) the exact opposite of that.(44:57) Yeah. (44:57) Yeah, I mean, (44:58) who’s to say that, (44:59) well, and we’ll get into the exact people (45:01) with the trait book (45:03) and all this other stuff. (45:05) The trait book? (45:05) Yeah.(45:06) Inferior, (45:07) I loved inferior germ plasm. (45:09) That was one of my favorites. (45:09) That was fucked up, dude.(45:10) Yeah. (45:11) So they go through all this stuff. (45:14) Now, this is the thing.(45:15) If you set aspirations (45:16) that blind you (45:17) to a certain set of consequences, (45:19) that’s really what this became (45:20) is like, (45:21) we’re looking to do this, (45:23) but the consequences are that, (45:24) but you’re like, (45:25) you’re so focused (45:26) on what you’re trying to accomplish, (45:28) the end goal, (45:29) that you’re not looking (45:30) at the negativity of it. (45:32) You’re not looking at the downside (45:33) of what it can do (45:34) to the other side of the coin. (45:36) And that’s where, (45:37) that’s where it gets dangerous (45:38) because no one can decide, right? (45:40) Yeah.(45:41) So October 1910, (45:43) they opened this institute, right? (45:45) The Eugenics Records Office (45:47) or Eugenics Record Office. (45:49) It housed hereditary information (45:51) on American families (45:52) to use it to guide (45:53) the reproductive choices (45:54) of the nation. (45:56) It basically began (45:58) institutionalizing eugenics.(46:00) So it started making it, (46:01) like giving it bigger teeth (46:02) because it’s now, (46:03) there’s an institution (46:04) of eugenics, right? (46:05) With the office. (46:06) And that’s where (46:09) Davenport used the money (46:10) from the lady, (46:13) Ms. E.M. Railroad Chick (46:15) from New York (46:15) to start the institute. (46:16) E.H. Harriman.(46:17) Sure, yeah, yeah, yeah. (46:18) The rich railroad chick. (46:19) E.F. Hutton.(46:20) Sure. (46:21) So they listened. (46:22) And then, (46:23) so Harry Laughlin (46:24) was the guy you mentioned earlier.(46:25) He ran the institute (46:26) and the trade book, right? (46:28) Data was used as gospel, (46:30) but nothing was checked. (46:31) What I found really interesting (46:32) was the one guy’s like, (46:33) yeah, they said this (46:35) and they just wrote it down. (46:36) And he’s like, oh, okay, (46:37) then that’s what it is.(46:38) There was no double checking, (46:39) no checks and balances. (46:41) Yeah, I found it very interesting (46:42) that they sent out surveyors (46:46) to ask people questions (46:49) all over the country. (46:51) And they would say, (46:53) oh, so tell me about your dad.(46:55) Oh, he was this or that. (46:56) Oh, but my uncle, (46:57) he sure was an alcoholic. (46:59) And he died 10 years ago.(47:00) So he would write down, (47:01) uncle was an alcoholic. (47:02) Right. (47:03) And then they would put (47:04) that information in the, (47:05) well, I called it a big database, (47:06) but it was basically a room (47:07) with paper and file cabinets.(47:09) So they put that information (47:10) in the database, (47:11) but they never verified it. (47:13) There was no checks and balances at all (47:16) that the uncle was an alcoholic. (47:18) So they automatically assumed (47:19) that that was a, (47:21) oh, the rest of the family (47:22) is predisposed to alcoholism (47:23) because the uncle was.(47:25) You know, I don’t know, (47:26) is that, how do you, (47:30) that’s messed up. (47:31) I agree. (47:32) And that was the point (47:33) is they just took that.(47:34) It’s like, oh, well, (47:35) then you’re bad. (47:36) Your uncle is bad. (47:37) So that’s your, (47:38) that’s your linear.(47:38) So you’re, (47:39) your state’s been sealed already. (47:41) Right. (47:41) Because your uncle (47:42) liked to have a cocktail.(47:43) Yeah. (47:44) I mean, (47:44) and what’s your definition? (47:46) You know, (47:46) everyone has his definition, (47:47) excuse me, (47:48) a different definition of that too. (47:50) Like, oh, he had one drink a day.(47:53) Oh, well, (47:53) somebody might think you are a drunk (47:56) or, oh, he drank once a week. (47:58) Somebody might think you’re a drunk. (47:59) I mean, there’s, (48:00) that’s a wide range of definitions.(48:05) I agree 100%. (48:07) So what, (48:08) what this database to your point was, (48:10) it was the inventory of the blood (48:11) of the community, right? (48:13) And here’s where that. (48:14) Not literally blood.(48:15) Right. (48:15) But, you know, (48:17) figurative blood. (48:18) Yes.(48:20) And that’s where the inferior germplasm came in. (48:23) The inferior germplasm. (48:26) Germplasm.(48:26) That’s such great. (48:27) But it was cold. (48:29) That sounds like a metal album.(48:32) That’s going to be awesome. (48:33) Bro. (48:35) How dare you? (48:37) What? (48:37) It does.(48:38) You started early. (48:39) It’s not even a song that already exists. (48:41) You’re already making stuff up for it.(48:43) Yeah. (48:44) I love you, man. (48:45) I don’t have a metal band or, (48:47) or a song, (48:48) but I have an album title.(48:50) Screw it. (48:50) I love it. (48:51) Yeah.(48:52) That could be inferior germplasm (48:53) could be a name of a band. (48:55) Yeah. (48:56) Cause like we make inferior germplasm.(48:59) Now opening for war. (49:02) Inferior germplasm. (49:04) Nice.(49:06) Sorry. (49:07) Sidetracked. (49:07) Sorry.(49:08) So what they did, (49:09) this was cold, (49:10) hard, (49:10) pure science, (49:11) right? (49:11) Like it did not look at anything other than just numbers. (49:14) Strains of bad behavior slash personality. (49:17) The eugenics record office recommended widespread education (49:20) and aggressive government intervention laws that prohibit (49:25) the defectives from entering the country, (49:29) prohibit them from marrying and prevent them from becoming parents by (49:33) segregating them in asylums throughout their reproductive years.(49:37) How can you call it cold, (49:40) hard, (49:40) pure science when the data is flawed? (49:44) When, (49:44) when it’s not, (49:45) there’s no validation of it at all. (49:48) The numbers were correct. (49:49) The context was always wrong though.(49:51) It’s, (49:51) it was out of, (49:52) it was the context that was really the right. (49:54) Cause what they were looking at was the numbers. (49:57) They basically said this equals that, (50:00) but that, (50:00) that wasn’t the case because the context was out.(50:02) Right. (50:02) They say one plus one equals two, (50:04) but one was really seven or something. (50:06) Exactly.(50:07) They never got, (50:07) they never got the base number information. (50:09) Correct. (50:10) Okay.(50:10) So yes, (50:11) you are correct. (50:12) I don’t find I, (50:13) I, (50:13) okay. (50:14) No trusting this stuff is absolutely detrimental and fucked up.(50:17) Right. (50:18) Right. (50:18) But the truth is they call, (50:20) that’s what they called it.(50:21) I’m not, (50:22) you know, (50:22) they just, (50:23) Okay. (50:23) I just disagree with that term. (50:24) Right.(50:25) Cold, (50:25) hard pure science. (50:26) Well, (50:26) if you remember, (50:27) like think about your baseball guy, (50:28) the statistic, (50:29) your statistics guy, (50:30) right? (50:30) That’s part of the base, (50:31) the lore of baseball. (50:32) Remember they’ve got like runs and, (50:35) you know, (50:35) walks and walks and strikeouts per innings pitch.(50:38) Yeah. (50:39) Yes. (50:40) Yes.(50:40) Yes. (50:40) Walks, (50:40) his pernings pit whip, (50:41) right? (50:42) Whips. (50:42) Right.(50:43) But it’s like, (50:44) you know, (50:45) the war is like wins over replacement, (50:46) right? (50:46) Stuff like that. (50:47) Yeah. (50:48) Um, (50:48) these are some really crazy numbers that they started doing, (50:51) but if you looked at the base numbers, (50:53) the guy, (50:54) you know, (50:54) his batting average was like the base number.(50:56) You’re like, (50:57) Oh, (50:57) he’s good. (50:57) Cause he bats, (50:58) blah, (50:58) blah, (50:58) blah. (50:59) You know, (50:59) or he’s bad cause he blasts ball, (51:00) blah, (51:00) blah.(51:00) But every time was a home run or he scored or something. (51:03) Yes. (51:03) It changes the context of that, (51:06) right? (51:06) Like a power hitter doesn’t hit as accurately as one that gets on, (51:11) you know, (51:11) singles and doubles.(51:12) of course. (51:13) Of course. (51:14) So that’s kind of the point, (51:16) right? (51:16) So you can look at a number from one side and it’s 100% true in the (51:21) context or the filter you’re looking at it, (51:23) but it’s definitely not true in the broader sense of the, (51:26) of the world.(51:28) I would agree, (51:29) sir. (51:30) Okay. (51:31) So after that, (51:33) what else, (51:34) what else did they recommend after doing the segregating them in (51:37) asylums and stuff? (51:38) Uh, (51:39) sterilization.(51:40) Sterilization. (51:42) Is that correct? (51:43) Yes, (51:43) sir. (51:45) Also recommended was a new procedure called sterilization.(51:51) And that’s what they came up with sterilization. (51:52) I never even knew that. (51:54) Like, (51:54) that’s kind of the term where it got coined in a weird way.(51:57) I wonder if it was with animals first or something, (51:59) but, (52:00) uh, (52:00) I, (52:01) yeah, (52:01) that’s a good question. (52:02) I wonder if it was with animals first. (52:03) I don’t know.(52:04) That’s interesting. (52:05) But anyway, (52:06) so they had sterilization. (52:09) So that Laughlin guy, (52:11) who I called the, (52:12) the, (52:13) yes, (52:14) he was the religious.(52:15) Tell us what he was like. (52:17) He, (52:17) he, (52:18) he was like the number two guy in America for eugenics. (52:21) And he, (52:22) it became like a religious movement to him.(52:26) So it, (52:27) it was weird. (52:28) And slowly over time, (52:31) as the movement began to change, (52:34) he didn’t falter. (52:36) The guy was just hardcore.(52:38) Uh, (52:39) Oh, (52:39) I give him credit for that, (52:40) but I think he’s a little nutty. (52:42) I don’t know. (52:42) Right.(52:43) Well, (52:43) he’s definitely believed in what he believed in. (52:45) Oh, (52:46) Oh yeah. (52:46) Yeah.(52:47) Um, (52:47) and he wanted to use sterilization as a eugenic tool, (52:49) basically. (52:50) Yes. (52:50) He’s like, (52:51) okay, (52:51) so let’s, (52:51) let’s get these things on the books.(52:53) Let’s get these laws built. (52:54) But how many, (52:55) did you remember the number of Americans that they thought needed to be (52:58) sterilized to save America? (53:01) Yes. (53:02) Would you care to share? (53:04) 15 million, (53:05) 15 million.(53:07) This is what? (53:08) 19, (53:08) 13, (53:09) 10, (53:09) 19, (53:10) 13. (53:10) 19, (53:11) So I did a beer Google, (53:12) sir. (53:13) What was the population of the United States in 1913? (53:18) Check Mark.(53:18) 80 million. (53:19) No, (53:19) sir. (53:20) Higher or lower? (53:21) Higher.(53:21) 120 million. (53:23) 97 million. (53:24) Okay.(53:24) So 100 million. (53:25) He wanted to 15% sterilize. (53:29) Yes.(53:30) Basically 15% more than 15%. (53:32) Yes. (53:32) It’s less than a hundred.(53:33) Correct. (53:34) Let’s just say 16.6%. (53:35) Wow. (53:36) He wanted to sterilize 16.6% of the population.(53:40) Wow. (53:40) That’s fucked up, (53:41) dude. (53:42) That’s one in seven.(53:43) I know that’s fucked up. (53:46) That’s right. (53:46) Like if you walk into circle K and there’s seven people in there, (53:50) one of them is getting sterilized.(53:52) One’s getting their tubes tied or they’re nuts. (53:53) That cut. (53:54) That’s fucked up, (53:56) man.(53:56) Fucked up. (53:57) I couldn’t believe that. (53:59) I, (53:59) you know, (53:59) and I had no idea the population of the U S at that time.(54:02) So I was like, (54:03) Oh, (54:03) 97 million. (54:04) Okay. (54:05) Whatever.(54:06) But I was like, (54:07) Oh shit. (54:08) 15%. (54:10) Damn.(54:10) That’s a lot of motherfuckers. (54:13) Yeah. (54:16) So, (54:17) um, (54:17) to your point, (54:18) it became religious, (54:18) right? (54:19) It was a movement, (54:19) but then there was this TH Morgan guy.(54:22) He was studying fruit, (54:23) fruit flies in, (54:25) uh, (54:25) in the fly room or something. (54:26) Fly guy, (54:27) fly boys, (54:28) fly boys were studying fruit flies within, (54:30) in the fly room, (54:31) in the fly room, (54:32) in a university. (54:33) Yeah.(54:33) And they were like using like bottom bottled glasses, (54:37) milk bottles from the cafeteria they stole or whatever. (54:39) Yes. (54:40) And the thing was fruit flies would, (54:42) would, (54:43) uh, (54:43) reproduce every 10 days.(54:44) So they could see very rapidly. (54:47) The genetics, (54:48) right? (54:49) Yes, (54:49) sir. (54:49) Um, (54:50) but this is where it was, (54:51) they discover is more complex than just these equal that, (54:55) right? (54:55) Even with the three to one ratio and all that.(54:57) Yes. (54:58) Yes. (54:58) The three to one ratio did not hold true.(55:01) It was bullcrap. (55:02) Cause he couldn’t figure out, (55:06) he was trying to figure out, (55:07) okay, (55:08) these flies have red eyes and I can’t figure out if the next (55:11) generation has red eyes or not. (55:12) These have short wings.(55:13) I can’t figure out. (55:14) If the next generation has short wings or not. (55:18) And they did this for six years.(55:20) Yeah. (55:20) They weren’t able to peg it down to exactly what was needed (55:23) or what they needed to do to get exactly the result they (55:26) wanted. (55:26) So if he says, (55:27) I can’t figure out what this fly is going to do, (55:30) how the hell are you going to figure out what this human’s (55:32) going to do? (55:33) So he was a, (55:34) he totally thought eugenics was bullcrap.(55:36) Damn Skippy. (55:37) Tell you what. (55:38) So he was actually on the board or something with the (55:41) eugenics record.(55:42) He was, (55:43) and he asked to be removed. (55:44) Yeah. (55:44) That is correct, (55:46) Okay.(55:46) And then what happened after that, (55:47) sir? (55:48) Uh, (55:51) that was the, (55:52) uh, (55:53) but eugenics, (55:54) I’m sorry. (55:54) They stormed forward. (55:55) Eugenics is like, (55:56) screw this guy.(55:57) We’re still moving forward. (55:58) They, (55:58) once again, (55:59) now, (55:59) now they’re a cult. (56:00) I mean, (56:01) that’s your word, (56:02) sir.(56:02) For all intents and purposes, (56:04) for lack of the better and purposes, (56:07) intense and, (56:08) and, (56:08) and, (56:08) and intensive purposes in TP, (56:11) in TP also, (56:11) all the teepees, (56:13) none of the tents in sleeping bags. (56:14) Yes. (56:15) Um, (56:15) are you not cabins? (56:16) Pitch a tent? (56:17) What? (56:18) Whoa, (56:18) bro.(56:19) I’ve had a, (56:20) I’ve had a pitch tent since you sat down, (56:23) sir. (56:23) Shut up. (56:25) Um, (56:26) but eugenics like, (56:27) fuck this.(56:27) We’re moving forward. (56:28) That’s exactly what they said. (56:29) So February 20th, (56:31) 1915, (56:33) 18 million people attended this thing called the Panama Pacific International Expo in San Francisco.(56:40) Over nine months. (56:40) Kind of reminds you like a world’s fair. (56:42) Exactly.(56:43) Like a world’s fair. (56:43) Yes, sir. (56:44) Yeah.(56:44) Tell me more about it, (56:45) man. (56:45) Uh, (56:45) they had a bunch of different exhibits there, (56:48) but it was basically an exhibit of science and technology to show how amazing America is. (56:56) And they had railroad stuff and telephones and all these newer technologies, (57:02) uh, (57:02) 1915.(57:03) So right before world war one, (57:05) I’m sorry, (57:06) no middle of world war one. (57:08) So the eugenics had a room there that everybody got to go see how you could better yourself and you could better society. (57:18) And so it was the way I, (57:20) my version is it was a sales tactic.(57:23) I don’t for eugenics, (57:25) right? (57:26) I don’t. (57:27) Do you agree with that? (57:28) To an extent, (57:29) except for it was a different guy who it was guy who now enters the picture. (57:33) It wasn’t made by Davenport.(57:35) They did have stuff, (57:36) but it was the race betterment exhibit that we’re talking about. (57:41) Yes. (57:41) It was actually made by John Harvey Kellogg, (57:44) wasn’t it? (57:44) I don’t think so.(57:46) Okay. (57:46) So I think Kellogg was after that because what I have is here. (57:50) I have it just as that as part of my notes, (57:52) a race betterment exhibit with John Harvey Kellogg.(57:54) He’s the inventor of cornflakes, (57:56) right? (57:56) Kellogg. (57:57) And yeah, (57:58) the Kellogg, (57:58) uh, (57:59) grain company. (58:00) What? (58:00) I don’t know what you call it.(58:01) Kellogg Corporation. (58:01) Yeah. (58:02) Kellogg, (58:02) Kellogg Inc.(58:03) Sure. (58:04) Uh, (58:04) believed in cleansing bowels and health, (58:06) right? (58:07) Yeah. (58:07) The guy, (58:08) Kellogg was obsessed with it.(58:09) Yeah. (58:09) He was obsessed with health and fitness and cleanliness. (58:13) Uh, (58:14) he was all, (58:14) you know, (58:15) talking about washing your hands.(58:16) So he thought that he invented cornflakes to help take care of your intestines and your (58:22) colon, (58:23) et cetera. (58:23) So, (58:24) um, (58:25) he, (58:25) he thought that, (58:27) that health and fitness ideas was directly tied to eugenics. (58:33) Or to genetics itself, (58:34) right? (58:34) Like, (58:34) so diet can influence the genetics of someone, (58:37) like their, (58:37) how they feel about things or their intelligence.(58:40) If they lived a clean life, (58:41) they’d be sharper, (58:42) right? (58:43) Right. (58:43) So he felt that environment had a lot to do, (58:48) you know, (58:48) influenced genetics or your growth or your, (58:52) you know, (58:52) development as much as, (58:53) of course, (58:54) as much as the genetics, (58:55) which is inside, (58:56) which is these things you can’t control, (58:57) right? (58:58) Right. (58:58) You can’t control what you are.(58:59) Your environment. (59:00) You can only control the environment. (59:02) Yes.(59:03) Right. (59:03) So, (59:03) um, (59:04) the attendance exceeded expectations, (59:06) right? (59:06) 18 million. (59:07) He equated human worth with the qualities they themselves had.(59:12) That’s where the problem was that Kellogg, (59:15) um, (59:16) I don’t think that’s, (59:17) well, (59:17) the, (59:18) the whole exhibit as a whole, (59:20) the whole idea of the eugenics during the fair or during this, (59:24) during the expo was the people that attended tended to be almost all white, (59:31) middle and upper middle class and Protestant. (59:33) That was like the running theme of all the people that attended the eugenics (59:38) portion of the expo. (59:40) Okay.(59:40) Right. (59:41) Right. (59:41) So they were saying like they equated human worth with the qualities that (59:44) they had themselves, (59:46) not others.(59:47) Right. (59:47) They’re like, (59:48) well, (59:48) look how good we’re doing. (59:50) Well, (59:50) we’re white and we’re this and we’re that.(59:52) So that’s what we’re, (59:53) that’s what we’ll use as a template. (59:54) Right. (59:55) Cause that’s what they saw as good.(59:56) So you’re saying that those people thought everyone should be like them. (1:00:02) That’s what, (1:00:03) yeah. (1:00:03) And that team, (1:00:04) that to me is like, (1:00:05) I mean, (1:00:06) you are a little tiny baby step away from master race.(1:00:09) I mean, (1:00:10) it’s right there. (1:00:10) And that’s, (1:00:11) that’s in America, (1:00:12) in San Francisco. (1:00:14) Yeah.(1:00:15) In 1915. (1:00:16) Yeah. (1:00:17) That’s well before the Nazi party.(1:00:19) Five years ago. (1:00:20) That’s well before the Nazi party. (1:00:21) Yeah.(1:00:21) That’s 18 years before that. (1:00:23) Yeah. (1:00:23) 105 years ago.(1:00:24) That’s not a very long time. (1:00:26) Right. (1:00:27) I mean, (1:00:27) it’s pretty freaking crazy.(1:00:29) Yeah. (1:00:29) So, (1:00:30) but, (1:00:31) but how else would you do it? (1:00:32) Right. (1:00:32) If you came up with an idea, (1:00:34) like this is the problem with ideas like this.(1:00:37) You come up with an idea and go, (1:00:39) I’m smart enough to detect that there’s a correlation between this base intelligence and who you’re married to and who it is that you’re dating or whatever. (1:00:48) Right. (1:00:49) That’s your filter.(1:00:51) Of course you’re going to go from your filter. (1:00:53) I mean, (1:00:53) I’m not. (1:00:54) Right.(1:00:54) Everybody has that filter. (1:00:56) A filter. (1:00:56) Right.(1:00:56) I’m not defending it. (1:00:58) No, (1:00:58) but that’s just reality. (1:00:59) Right.(1:01:00) I’m not promoting this. (1:01:02) I’m just clearly stating that if you came up with this theory of something, (1:01:07) it’s through your lens. (1:01:09) So you’re like, (1:01:09) well, (1:01:09) of course I came up with this idea that if we do this, (1:01:12) so I must be the people that we must be after because I was smart enough to come up with this idea in the first place.(1:01:18) I see what you’re saying. (1:01:18) In a weird way. (1:01:19) I make the rules.(1:01:21) It’s my ball. (1:01:22) It’s my ball. (1:01:23) So I make the rules.(1:01:24) Are we in the sandbox or what the hell is going on? (1:01:28) That’s what humanity is, (1:01:29) though, (1:01:29) isn’t it? (1:01:29) It’s one giant sandbox. (1:01:33) so anyway, (1:01:34) um, (1:01:34) I’m taking my fire truck and going home. (1:01:36) I do apologize if, (1:01:37) if the Kellogg thing was not connected to the race betterment thing, (1:01:40) but I, (1:01:41) I don’t know.(1:01:42) I mean, (1:01:42) I don’t, (1:01:43) I mean, (1:01:43) I just watched this morning, (1:01:44) so it’s no big deal. (1:01:45) I took five pages, (1:01:46) five pages, (1:01:47) bro. (1:01:47) So they were the defining movement for American eugenics moment.(1:01:51) I’m sorry. (1:01:52) The defining moment for the American eugenics movement was the amount of people that showed up to this. (1:01:58) Yeah, (1:01:58) that 1915 was huge.(1:01:59) Yeah. (1:02:00) Now, (1:02:00) it wasn’t 18 million that attended the, (1:02:02) the, (1:02:02) uh, (1:02:03) the specific eugenics thing was 18 million that attended the expo. (1:02:06) It was like still a huge number of people.(1:02:10) I didn’t get that exact number. (1:02:12) I don’t think they said it. (1:02:13) Okay.(1:02:14) So what happened after that? (1:02:15) Uh, (1:02:15) the cat, (1:02:16) did you want to talk about the Calicak family and all that stuff? (1:02:21) sure. (1:02:22) I’m trying to think who wrote the book, (1:02:25) the Calicak. (1:02:26) There’s a book called the Calicak K L L I K K the Calicak family, (1:02:33) right? (1:02:33) Uh, (1:02:34) who do you know? (1:02:35) Who do you remember? (1:02:35) I don’t remember who wrote the book cause it didn’t matter who wrote it cause it wasn’t one of the people that were real dogma.(1:02:40) It just, (1:02:40) somebody wrote this book. (1:02:42) Somebody wrote this book called the Calicak family, (1:02:44) which basically was a, (1:02:47) it’s the study of a family and the generations and how it gave examples of how negative traits are passed down generation generation or so you were led to believe. (1:03:03) And whether it was again, (1:03:05) criminology, (1:03:06) I’m sorry, (1:03:06) not criminology, (1:03:07) um, (1:03:07) being a criminal or being alcoholic or whatever that may be.(1:03:12) The, (1:03:13) it was painted in such a way that it was negative. (1:03:15) And Oh, (1:03:16) you got that from your dad. (1:03:18) Nothing to do with where, (1:03:19) how you were raised, (1:03:20) nothing to do with your environment.(1:03:21) You were, (1:03:22) you got it from your mom. (1:03:23) Sorry, (1:03:24) you got it from your uncle. (1:03:25) You got it from your grandfather, (1:03:26) whatever.(1:03:27) And then that was so popular. (1:03:29) That book sold so much. (1:03:31) It was ingrained in a popular culture where it was used in campaign speeches and it was used in Congress and it was used in everyday language to almost to a fault.(1:03:41) The Germans used it. (1:03:43) The Nazi Germans even referenced Calicak family in one of the propaganda films they were showing. (1:03:48) Holy crap.(1:03:49) I don’t remember that because he said, (1:03:50) Calicak family from Calicak. (1:03:52) Yeah. (1:03:53) And it was like, (1:03:54) you could see it.(1:03:54) It was really interesting. (1:03:55) So to your point, (1:03:57) huge, (1:03:58) huge thing. (1:03:59) Um, (1:04:00) it was a book about how one family is affected by quote unquote, (1:04:03) bad breeding.(1:04:04) It was only bad breeding. (1:04:06) Nothing else would mattered. (1:04:07) That was what it was.(1:04:08) And that, (1:04:09) that started, (1:04:09) you know, (1:04:10) once again, (1:04:11) there’s eugenics, (1:04:12) uh, (1:04:12) rear and it’s ugly head. (1:04:13) And then we get into world war one and that’s what I, (1:04:17) I found this. (1:04:18) I didn’t know any of this.(1:04:20) Well, (1:04:20) I didn’t even know what eugenics Matt dude. (1:04:22) Yeah. (1:04:23) I didn’t even know it was in the American mainstream.(1:04:26) Like, (1:04:27) you know, (1:04:27) you read history books and I was a good student cause I had to be. (1:04:31) So I didn’t even know, (1:04:33) I don’t remember studying this in school. (1:04:36) Once again, (1:04:36) I just remember master race and Hitler with the purity and all that.(1:04:41) And that’s the only thing I think about is pure race, (1:04:44) pure race. (1:04:44) That’s the only place I go back to. (1:04:45) I don’t go back to, (1:04:47) to your point, (1:04:48) to America, (1:04:49) pushing it to where Hitler, (1:04:52) and we’ll talk about it again, (1:04:53) but Hitler like references it in his, (1:04:55) in his biography.(1:04:56) Yeah. (1:04:56) Right. (1:04:57) Like, (1:04:57) and he uses it like he says we should do what the Americans are doing.(1:05:01) Can you believe that shit? (1:05:03) Yeah. (1:05:04) So to come back, (1:05:05) World War One, (1:05:06) the 3 million men were drafted. (1:05:08) And so we spiked our, (1:05:10) our military just exploded at that point.(1:05:12) So in 1917, (1:05:14) the US joined World War One, (1:05:16) which had been going on for two years and 3 million boys, (1:05:20) men were drafted. (1:05:21) They were all giving tests. (1:05:23) There was an alpha test, (1:05:23) beta test.(1:05:24) Alpha test was if you spoke English, (1:05:27) if you literate, (1:05:28) if you literate, (1:05:29) I’m sorry, (1:05:29) read and write literate. (1:05:30) I apologize. (1:05:31) A beta test was if you were illiterate, (1:05:34) or could not read and write English.(1:05:38) Is that correct? (1:05:39) That’s basically correct. (1:05:40) Okay. (1:05:40) So they did pictures and tried to.(1:05:43) Yeah, (1:05:43) it was like a dumpster fire of a test. (1:05:45) I mean, (1:05:45) it really did. (1:05:46) Go ahead.(1:05:47) So there was, (1:05:48) if you did not read or write English, (1:05:51) they made you draw pictures. (1:05:52) And there was a house with a chimney, (1:05:54) but the chimney did not go above the roof. (1:05:56) So an Italian American, (1:05:57) they made you, (1:05:59) okay, (1:05:59) complete what’s missing in this picture.(1:06:00) Instead of drawing the rest of the chimney, (1:06:02) he drew a crucifix. (1:06:04) Cause that’s what he thought went there. (1:06:06) Like, (1:06:06) that’s not right or wrong.(1:06:07) I mean, (1:06:07) it looked like a church because it kind of, (1:06:09) I mean, (1:06:10) I could see that or something. (1:06:11) I thought, (1:06:12) Oh, (1:06:12) you just continue the chimney. (1:06:13) But this was in 1917.(1:06:16) And this dude is new to America. (1:06:18) Obviously didn’t read and write English (1:06:19) because he was taking the beta test. (1:06:22) So the point of the story is half of the soldiers (1:06:27) that took these all, (1:06:28) well, (1:06:28) all the soldiers took the test.(1:06:29) 1.5 million soldiers were labeled to be morons. (1:06:34) Yeah. (1:06:34) Considered morons or below intelligence.(1:06:36) That’s terrible, (1:06:37) man. (1:06:37) Yeah. (1:06:38) But, (1:06:38) but the test was just once again, (1:06:40) the test is the issue.(1:06:41) I believe it showed, (1:06:42) it showed the biases that you go in with a test, (1:06:46) right? (1:06:46) Is to your point, (1:06:48) we’re expecting extend the chimney. (1:06:49) Cause that’s what we have in America. (1:06:51) Yeah.(1:06:51) But in your, (1:06:52) you don’t, (1:06:52) you’re not looking through the filter of an immigrant (1:06:54) from Italy. (1:06:55) Correct. (1:06:56) Do you recall on the alpha test? (1:06:57) There was one gentleman who rattled off one of the (1:07:01) multiple choice questions that was really tough.(1:07:04) Yes. (1:07:04) Do you, (1:07:04) what was the question? (1:07:05) You remember the question? (1:07:06) I don’t remember the question, (1:07:07) but I do recall like it was in my mind while the, (1:07:10) while the documentaries continue. (1:07:12) I thought it was interesting.(1:07:13) I was like, (1:07:13) it was a tough question. (1:07:14) I was like, (1:07:14) what the hell? (1:07:15) Just weirdly worded or something. (1:07:17) It wasn’t like which river goes to which lake in Africa (1:07:18) or anything like that from the before, (1:07:21) but it was like, (1:07:21) what the hell kind of question is this? (1:07:24) Yeah.(1:07:25) Excuse me. (1:07:25) So then they, (1:07:27) in 1919, (1:07:27) they created a national intelligence test. (1:07:31) Yes.(1:07:32) And by 1920 of those admitted to feeble minded institutes, (1:07:37) the vast majority were classified as morons. (1:07:40) So they, (1:07:41) they went once again, (1:07:42) they were using this three part or three type thing. (1:07:46) They have different classes of moron.(1:07:47) Obviously I think it was like class one, (1:07:48) two, (1:07:49) and three. (1:07:49) I think if I remember correctly, (1:07:50) and then it was imbecile and then idiot or whatever. (1:07:54) So by 1920, (1:07:57) the feeble minded institutes, (1:07:58) they had a vast majority were labeled, (1:08:00) were classified as morons.(1:08:02) It doesn’t mean they were, (1:08:03) just means they had this test. (1:08:04) That’s what they were classified as. (1:08:05) That’s what they were classified as.(1:08:07) And eugenics, (1:08:08) this is the thing too, (1:08:10) eugenics preserves the current hierarchies, (1:08:12) right? (1:08:13) We talk about systems, (1:08:14) the systems that are in place that got us here are the ones (1:08:18) that are going to use to continue. (1:08:20) So what it did was it just supported the strength of what (1:08:24) systems currently in place, (1:08:25) right? (1:08:25) It makes them even stronger in their foothold over change, (1:08:30) right? (1:08:31) We’ve noticed that we’re having some systemic issues in today’s (1:08:34) world or, (1:08:35) or it’s coming a lot to fruition in general. (1:08:38) And these systems are being addressed now, (1:08:40) right? (1:08:41) To an extent as they always should be.(1:08:44) Well, (1:08:44) we’re trying, (1:08:44) we’re trying. (1:08:45) Yeah. (1:08:46) And it’s hard.(1:08:47) It’s not easy, (1:08:47) but we’re definitely trying, (1:08:49) right? (1:08:49) But this is the thing. (1:08:50) Eugenics, (1:08:51) once again, (1:08:52) preserve the hierarchy, (1:08:53) but things were changing. (1:08:54) The world was getting away, (1:08:56) you know, (1:08:56) once again, (1:08:57) getting away from monarchies and getting away from control and (1:08:59) getting, (1:09:00) you know what I mean? (1:09:00) Like we got, (1:09:01) we were getting the point of really working on individual (1:09:04) freedoms.(1:09:04) I mean, (1:09:04) I know it’s still the third, (1:09:06) uh, (1:09:06) right now it’s the twenties. (1:09:07) Yeah. (1:09:08) But there’s a general shift for humanity to be individual and (1:09:12) free.(1:09:13) And women barely had the right to vote. (1:09:15) 20 was when he had folks didn’t have the right to vote for another (1:09:18) 40 years. (1:09:19) Black people could vote, (1:09:20) but they were still, (1:09:20) there’s still three fifths of a member.(1:09:23) They voted even prior to prohibition. (1:09:25) They could all black men could always vote, (1:09:27) but women didn’t vote. (1:09:29) They couldn’t vote till 64, (1:09:30) 1964.(1:09:31) That’s the civil rights movement. (1:09:33) Yeah. (1:09:33) But I don’t think that’s the voting thing.(1:09:34) Is it? (1:09:35) I have to look that up. (1:09:36) Do you mind if I sound like an idiot for a second? (1:09:39) I love when you, (1:09:41) uh, (1:09:41) when, (1:09:42) Oh my God. (1:09:44) I thought they were just three fifths of a man.(1:09:49) Remember African Americans got the right to vote. (1:09:52) Let’s see the 15th amendment, (1:09:54) which is before suffers. (1:09:56) Let’s see what year is that? (1:09:59) Oh, (1:09:59) um, (1:10:00) 15th amendment.(1:10:02) Isn’t that 65, (1:10:03) eight, (1:10:04) 1865. (1:10:05) That’s when they were freed. (1:10:06) That’s not when they can vote.(1:10:08) Hold on. (1:10:09) I mean, (1:10:10) bro, (1:10:11) 14th amendment. (1:10:13) Now you’re going to have to talk.(1:10:14) And while I try to read this as quickly as I can, (1:10:17) I don’t even want to be here. (1:10:18) I don’t like you, (1:10:19) bro, (1:10:20) bro. (1:10:20) I thought you liked me.(1:10:21) I mean, (1:10:22) sometimes. (1:10:23) So tell, (1:10:24) tell us more about the eugenics in the meantime, (1:10:26) but about the, (1:10:27) what do you feel about the high, (1:10:28) the whole hierarchy? (1:10:29) I think it’s bullshit. (1:10:30) Technically the hierarchies.(1:10:31) I obviously it’s bullshit, (1:10:33) dude, (1:10:33) but you’re absolutely right. (1:10:34) That it’s, (1:10:35) it’s another, (1:10:36) it’s, (1:10:37) it’s another infrastructure that, (1:10:40) Oh, (1:10:40) Hey, (1:10:41) we’re in power. (1:10:42) So let, (1:10:42) we need more information to stay in power.(1:10:45) I, (1:10:46) you know, (1:10:46) I, (1:10:47) I see your point. (1:10:48) It’s poopy. (1:10:49) Whatever.(1:10:50) It’s dumb. (1:10:51) It’s fucking dumb, (1:10:53) but it made sense, (1:10:54) right? (1:10:54) He’s like, (1:10:54) I, (1:10:55) I discovered eugenics, (1:10:56) so I should be the one using my history of my culture to promote it. (1:11:01) Cause I discovered it.(1:11:02) It’s almost, (1:11:03) once again, (1:11:04) it’s my ball, (1:11:04) my rules in a weird way back into the sandbox. (1:11:06) So after world war one, (1:11:08) what happened? (1:11:09) Check Mark. (1:11:10) Well, (1:11:10) I would like to say this, (1:11:11) the 14th amendment, (1:11:12) the constitution, (1:11:13) 1868, (1:11:14) granted African Americans, (1:11:15) the rights of citizenship.(1:11:16) However, (1:11:17) this did not always translate into the ability to vote. (1:11:21) Black voters were systematically turned away from state polling places, (1:11:25) but I think the right was given in 1868. (1:11:29) Okay.(1:11:30) I’m totally wrong. (1:11:30) I apologize. (1:11:31) I hope that I am not.(1:11:33) Now it said in 1964, (1:11:35) the 24th amendment, (1:11:36) taxes. (1:11:38) And then 65, (1:11:39) the voting rights act directed attorney general to enforce the right to vote (1:11:44) for African Americans. (1:11:45) So 65, (1:11:46) it was directed the, (1:11:48) the attorney general to enforce the right.(1:11:51) So the right was there, (1:11:52) but there was no liberties and no one really was pushing. (1:11:55) I got you. (1:11:56) So we’re both correct, (1:11:57) sir.(1:11:58) Uh, (1:11:58) thank you. (1:11:59) That is weird. (1:12:01) We’re usually, (1:12:02) we’re never both correct.(1:12:04) That is unusual. (1:12:05) Usually both of us are incorrect. (1:12:06) Usually both of us are fucking wrong.(1:12:08) That’s right. (1:12:08) So after world war one, (1:12:10) uh, (1:12:10) a lot more immigrants poured in, (1:12:12) right? (1:12:12) 70,000, (1:12:13) 75,000 a month. (1:12:14) Yeah.(1:12:14) Ellis Island. (1:12:15) You mentioned about that. (1:12:16) So this is what was so weird.(1:12:18) Davenport wrote in a letter, (1:12:20) can we build a wall high enough so as we can keep out the cheaper races, (1:12:29) can we build a wall high enough so as we can keep out the cheaper races? (1:12:34) And he doesn’t mean cheap. (1:12:35) He means when he uses the word cheaper, (1:12:38) that’s not, (1:12:38) he’s lesser. (1:12:40) Yeah.(1:12:40) It’s not the way we think of it. (1:12:41) Like, (1:12:41) oh, (1:12:41) I found it. (1:12:42) I found this blob tennis racket cheaper at Dick’s than I did at sports (1:12:47) authority or some shit.(1:12:48) He’s not using it in the word, (1:12:51) in the, (1:12:51) he’s using it at a quality. (1:12:52) He’s correct. (1:12:53) It’s not financial.(1:12:54) It’s, (1:12:55) it’s lesser intelligence or lesser worth. (1:12:58) Right? (1:12:58) That’s, (1:12:59) I mean, (1:12:59) that just shows how much better he thinks he is than everyone else. (1:13:05) Right.(1:13:05) And I didn’t really get that impression of him until he said that. (1:13:09) Until that. (1:13:10) Until that.(1:13:10) Because he, (1:13:11) I always thought he had the best of intentions. (1:13:14) And so I was like, (1:13:15) damn, (1:13:15) that’s fucked up, (1:13:16) He was really interested at first and it really took his mind, (1:13:20) right? (1:13:20) Like, (1:13:20) where can we take this? (1:13:22) I think his curiosity. (1:13:23) Yeah, (1:13:23) he got, (1:13:23) and then he got really into it and then it did get this cult.(1:13:27) It starts becoming this cultish religious thing because now he’s all in. (1:13:34) Yeah. (1:13:34) So everything is about like, (1:13:37) you just dig your heels more, (1:13:38) right? (1:13:39) Yeah.(1:13:41) It’s humanity. (1:13:42) We, (1:13:42) the pendulum, (1:13:43) the pendulum, (1:13:44) we always swing the pendulum too far, (1:13:46) the other direction. (1:13:47) And then when we correct, (1:13:48) we overcorrect the other way.(1:13:50) It’s just, (1:13:50) it’s just how we do it. (1:13:51) It’s look, (1:13:51) it’s part of humanity. (1:13:52) It’s not a bad thing.(1:13:53) It’s just how we process. (1:13:55) Right. (1:13:55) Well, (1:13:55) I don’t, (1:13:56) you know, (1:13:56) you’re right, (1:13:57) but I don’t think that analogy holds true for this.(1:13:59) I think it’s more about Davenport was the man. (1:14:02) Like this was his idea. (1:14:04) He was the main dude and he got caught up in his own movement.(1:14:09) Right. (1:14:09) And he couldn’t, (1:14:10) he couldn’t, (1:14:11) I’m saying the pendulum, (1:14:12) stop it. (1:14:12) Right.(1:14:12) The pendulum swung too far to the point where he’s actually saying, (1:14:15) can we build a wall? (1:14:16) Right. (1:14:17) High enough so we can keep out cheaper races. (1:14:19) Initially it was just about, (1:14:21) Hey, (1:14:21) what about eugenics? (1:14:22) Right.(1:14:22) And then it goes, (1:14:24) how do we keep out? (1:14:25) Yeah. (1:14:26) Right. (1:14:27) You know, (1:14:27) it, (1:14:28) it just got twisted, (1:14:29) right? (1:14:29) It’s kind of like Anakin Skywalker becoming Darth Vader, (1:14:32) but totally different.(1:14:35) But it’s like, (1:14:36) So to whom? (1:14:37) Okay. (1:14:37) So he wanted to maintain the quote unquote traditional American stock. (1:14:42) When we talk about stock, (1:14:42) it’s like animals, (1:14:44) right? (1:14:44) The American stock would have been all the founding father people and all those (1:14:48) people that built the country.(1:14:49) Yeah. (1:14:49) Not all these GD immigrants. (1:14:51) Right.(1:14:51) That is it. (1:14:52) Well, (1:14:52) I’m just saying that’s what he’s saying. (1:14:54) Well, (1:14:54) you can’t say that because he probably couldn’t use the Lord’s name in vain (1:14:57) back then.(1:14:58) Oh yeah. (1:14:58) You know, (1:14:58) the 10 commandments, (1:14:59) bro. (1:14:59) Yeah.(1:14:59) so (1:15:01) To whom do you remember to whom he wrote this because his friend was it grant it was Madison Grant, sir (1:15:06) So tell us about Madison Grant. He was all white guy (1:15:09) Yeah, this is that guy you check mark (1:15:13) bro, bro, he’s all white guy and (1:15:16) He I would say I described him as a traditionalist (1:15:20) he (1:15:22) his ancestors signed the Declaration of Independence (1:15:26) He a true very very traditional American man family money (1:15:31) You know worked on Wall Street in New York City (1:15:35) they trace his ancestors back to the (1:15:37) Pilgrims Quakers something like that puritan puritans. I was way.Okay, we keep that’s okay (1:15:43) What you get Pilgrim in the mind you can’t get it out. There’s no P word that we do. Whoa, you know, so (1:15:52) Mr. Grant wrote a book (1:15:55) The passing of the great race (1:15:58) Which the great race to him we call it the Nordic race (1:16:02) So he believed some fucked-up stuff (1:16:06) in my opinion the the the (1:16:10) Synopsis, it just tells you how kind of simple that the science was back then remember scientific method is still pretty new at this (1:16:17) point like obviously we had our Copernicus’s and our (1:16:20) Galileo guys and we had our we had our da Vinci’s and that’s the 1516 hundreds, right? (1:16:26) So you’re saying this at this point the world was no longer flat, right? (1:16:30) But remember Darwinism takes over right this whole eugenics thing.It’s science, but it’s science from (1:16:37) What they currently understand which it turns right? (1:16:40) There’s times when they find out it turns it on its ear like when bacteria was discovered or whatever (1:16:45) Oh, yeah, like they didn’t know about all this stuff yet, right or how this worked. They just had (1:16:50) Yeah, and they’re like, well we represent that idea. So we must be right, right? (1:16:55) And it so what was interesting about this is Madison Grant once again to your point founding father (1:17:00) He had fathers that that are ancestors assigned Declaration of Independence.He was one of the Puritan founders came to America (1:17:06) He was a conservationist. I thought that was interesting. Yeah, and he saved the Redwoods (1:17:11) Yeah, and and he and this is what he said he well or they made it sound like he felt this way (1:17:16) He realized he was spending all of his efforts towards saving flora and fauna, right while his own race was dying out (1:17:25) So like in a weird (1:17:27) Like dr.Evil kind of twisted or mr. Glass kind of way like in a dark twist in internal ways (1:17:33) Like I’m just preserving a race that currently exists and does really well (1:17:38) Like he I mean in a weird way, didn’t he just see himself as like an extinct race. It’s becoming extinct. Yes (1:17:46) So was he was he bad in that thought back to you sir, what give me some thoughts about that I (1:17:54) I’m coming at it from a weird angle.No, I would definitely think that he (1:17:59) from his perspective I (1:18:02) Don’t think it was just a race thing. It was his way of life was dying out like (1:18:08) to your point that you made earlier about you walk out of your building in New York and (1:18:13) There’s all these people and none of them speak English and they’re poor and a year ago it wasn’t like that (1:18:21) And what to put yourself in his shoes? He’s like what the fuck right? It’s 1920 (1:18:29) 150 years ago. My ancestor signed the Declaration of Independence to free this country and bloods been spilled and you people have no (1:18:38) Recognition of that is that what he’s thinking in his mind? (1:18:42) Right, you know how (1:18:46) Can you blame him for being? (1:18:48) The guy worked his ass, you know, he was not a young man (1:18:50) He was probably 70 75 the guy worked his ass off.Right so and coming at it from a conservationist perspective. I (1:18:59) Once again, you and I don’t defend atrocious acts again. Oh people.No, no (1:19:04) Okay, so the meat the ends do not justify the no, of course in (1:19:09) 99.9 99% of any of the cases we talked about right but in this case (1:19:13) Through his lens of I saved the Redwoods. I saved this extinct this this turtle on the brink of extinction (1:19:21) I saved this animal right or or oh (1:19:24) I saved this plant and then he’s looking around to your point and he’s like seeing his numbers dwindle in his immediate (1:19:30) Vision, right? Yes in his periphery. He goes outside and boom (1:19:36) It’s not the people that he grew up with associates with connects with whatever (1:19:41) He sees himself as this not better race.Just a race that’s going away, right? Because it’s (1:19:48) semi (1:19:49) Pers of perseverance or preservation, right? Yeah preservation. Yes. It’s not saying he’s better (1:19:55) He still wants to be what just wants to exist in a weird way (1:19:58) So it’s a weird twisted kind of way to look at the world though.It’s a weird way to be (1:20:05) To self-preserve, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so (1:20:10) So in in this case, oh some people did think they were better than others and (1:20:15) Because of the way the data was collected eugenics (1:20:19) Provided the data that supported the belief right? It was easy was not the other way around, right? (1:20:23) It was just easy to do, you know, they came up with the idea and then made the documentary (1:20:26) It’s like what like it’s like I don’t think Al Gore went into inconvenient truth (1:20:32) Asking the question if genuine global warming exists.I haven’t seen it. I’m assuming he went in (1:20:39) Thinking in his mind or believing one side of it and then found the data to support in his film the one side (1:20:47) Documentaries don’t seem to be like what they used to be where it’s just like really boring and just give us the information (1:20:52) They usually have an agenda now. It sucks.But that’s how it is, right? We all have agendas. So the data they collected (1:21:03) Stay on target, right? Well, that’s what I’m just saying the data they collected supported the belief in (1:21:09) Eugenics, right the whole all that that there’s some people are better than others. Yeah.No, yeah, they did it reverse. I get it (1:21:15) Yeah, and it’s fucking dumb (1:21:17) Yes, so (1:21:19) 75,000 a month, right? Yep. Can we build a wall American stock blah blah blah passing of the great race? (1:21:25) So did you have anything to add about the book? Did you? (1:21:28) Have a note later on about him and Hitler (1:21:32) I do.Okay, then I will wait. No, I will hold my point till later (1:21:36) Okay, and I I will earmark it for you to have it. So (1:21:43) He talks about this Nordic race that gets cool, right he kind of coins it (1:21:48) The Nordic race.Yeah, remember you said he had some fucked-up ideas about what did you what did you take from it? (1:21:55) My fuck that what did he believe or what do you think? His idea was that the Nordic race was newer (1:22:01) Than other races races of color and he thought that if his Nordic race quote-unquote as I use air quotes (1:22:10) if his Nordic race (1:22:12) mixed with older races races of color (1:22:16) They would be the genes would be predominant and would overpower his Nordic race genes (1:22:22) Yeah, what kind of bullshit ass crap is that shit? Well, that’s why I’m saying remember the science (1:22:28) This is where they saw and science was not there yet, right he goes (1:22:34) They’re the most evolved but not set yet (1:22:37) Like almost like a gel or like a gelatin or like a mold or what an idiot, right but like concrete (1:22:43) Well, it’s but if you think about (1:22:46) the mindset back then (1:22:49) Younger younger didn’t (1:22:51) Older was better like in a weird way (1:22:54) It made sense older you always respected your elders you always, you know, you always look to the age and experience were (1:23:02) The thing that got you through (1:23:04) Yeah (1:23:06) Through their lens in the 1800 or the early 1900s, whatever (1:23:11) It seemed like that would make sense in that way. I don’t know obviously you and I are like, what kind of bullshit is this? (1:23:16) it’s amazing because I I really I (1:23:20) Kind of admire him for his (1:23:23) Conservationism and saving the Redwoods and and (1:23:27) for he really seemed to treasure his family ancestry, I think that’s really cool and (1:23:34) Then on the other hand, he’s a fucking lunatic. It’s like wow.I really like you. Oh, you’re a dick. So it’s like this weird (1:23:42) Well, what just happened? (1:23:44) it shows you how the bad guy isn’t always the bad guy or or (1:23:49) You can almost see the not the goodness in them, but it’s not correct, but it’s not like they’re intentionally being bad (1:23:58) He in his eyes.He’s not being bad, right? Like I use that mr. Glass example (1:24:02) Yeah, right because basically the whole thing is he killed all these people right just looking for someone who’s not him (1:24:09) He didn’t look at the people as people he killed. Yeah, he didn’t look he didn’t want to kill people (1:24:13) Yeah, he that was just the way to find that one that was invincible and to justify the means but again (1:24:18) You and I don’t think that those means are okay, but mr. Glass did that’s totally right and that’s that’s kind of how this guy (1:24:24) is like I (1:24:25) Get kind of what you’re looking at. But do you see what the other problem is, right? (1:24:30) So it was that the most evolved the Nordic race, but not set (1:24:34) Not set yet, and they’d be overwhelmed by lesser races, right? So (1:24:39) He also saw that laws existed that prevented Negroes from marrying whites, but nothing about ink immigrant (1:24:45) That’s the word they used so (1:24:48) Yes, Negro, that’s not a word.Correct. That’s the word they used. That’s correct in I’m sorry (1:24:53) Yes, I because I don’t like I use that term.I’m just yeah, I’m just calling it out in there the laws (1:25:00) That existed it was about Negroes at the time bearing whites, but nothing about immigrants. So they wanted to limit in immigration as well (1:25:08) So tell us about tell us about what happened when they limited the immigration how what they did with Congress and stuff Congress (1:25:18) was (1:25:20) I’m gonna backtrack the huge the eugenics Institute placed a (1:25:28) Bunch of panels of information in the rooms where Congress meets (1:25:34) so (1:25:34) Congress the members of Congress and the and the what the hell’s it called (1:25:43) The Committee for immigration and reform and naturalization (1:25:48) Couldn’t help but be persuaded to look at that stuff and (1:25:53) Then that committee thought okay. We need to we do need to do something about immigration (1:25:56) They went before all of Congress and persuaded them.Yes, we need to do something about immigration (1:26:01) So they passed a law in 1924 and immigration was cut by 97% (1:26:09) Crazy call raisy. I’ve got May 26 (1:26:13) 1924 (1:26:15) The guy that Edward Bernays helped right present Coolidge, right? (1:26:20) It wasn’t wasn’t cool (1:26:21) It’s a boring motherfucker that they had to help by they they had a party and they said I believe that’s correct (1:26:25) He he I think he cracked a smile or something. Yes (1:26:29) During a party.Yeah, he signed in sign the restriction act (1:26:33) Right. Yes reduce immigration 97. How many years 40? I have 40 years that right? (1:26:38) Is that I don’t recall that sounds a little excessive.Yeah, but I think I (1:26:44) Took that down did not lift until 40 years later. So that would have been (1:26:47) 64 that makes sense. Sure (1:26:51) Really? No idea.My parent my parents were in that three person that 3% that still skated by but at World War two (1:26:57) Yeah different with you. Yeah, that may have been a political asylum, right? Oh, yeah (1:27:02) Yeah, so, um, I would think coming from East Germany or why not right or well then became Western whatever (1:27:09) Germany’s I still gotta get my mom’s in here (1:27:12) All right, so what else did it close the doors to that was the one thing yeah, that was very disturbing (1:27:16) This is where it reared its ugly head. So (1:27:20) 1924 is when this happened was when the a lot the law was enacted.That’s correct (1:27:24) but the the ramifications of that law obviously were great because (1:27:29) you know just a couple years later is when in 33 the Nazi Party came to power and (1:27:37) Jews and other (1:27:39) People that felt threatened by the Nazi Party were trying to leave (1:27:43) including Anne Frank’s family and they were denied entrance in the into the United States because of this law and (1:27:50) Then they died (1:27:52) That’s freaking terrible. Yeah, the diary of Anne Frank would not have it but think about that (1:27:59) imagine not having (1:28:01) The diary of Anne Frank, I would totally be okay with never having read that hold on my point (1:28:07) My point is we talked about causality and how interesting the universe works (1:28:12) right, like probably in another dimension my opinion is they didn’t have that law and (1:28:19) She came over and there’s no fucking diary. Yeah, but wasn’t the diary like a way for people to really (1:28:26) Create solidarity, you know, I mean to get the strength to continue or whatever was through her words (1:28:32) So like the benefit of that literature (1:28:37) To the world (1:28:39) For her single suffering.I’m not once again, not justifying it. I understand. I’m just looking at the big picture.I understand (1:28:47) It’s a weird. It’s a weird way to look at it though, right? Like imagine not having that (1:28:52) Because she came over and there isn’t anything (1:29:01) Next you can continue. I’m good, bro.Okay, so they close the doors Jews right in the 30s. Uh-huh (1:29:08) That was the worst and then I’ve got this is where the birth control lady comes in Margaret (1:29:13) I did mention her. All right, so talk tell us tell us more about her eyes (1:29:17) again, she was the (1:29:19) The biggest proponent of birth control (1:29:23) for obviously many many years (1:29:27) Well reproductive rights, I guess you could (1:29:30) You could call it, but she didn’t do very well her her thoughts on birth control and (1:29:39) Reproductive rights were falling on deaf ears.So (1:29:42) eventually, she (1:29:45) Figured out that eugenics was a way to reach people because it was popular (1:29:50) and (1:29:51) That again goes to my previous point about hey where she said are you? (1:29:58) Financially able to take care of a child are you and then she used a couple other phrases like are you? (1:30:04) God I wish I could remember what she said. Do you remember do you remember like are you smart enough to have a kid? (1:30:10) she didn’t say that but (1:30:12) Yeah, there was a movie that came out called. Are you fit to marry for? Okay.There you go. Yeah (1:30:17) Well, this is the thing though Margaret Sanger her reasons for birth control really weren’t about eugenics. They were about (1:30:25) Liberating women.Well, of course, but she just used eugenics right now when she figured out oh shit (1:30:30) I can use eugenics to get my point across right and let’s just say the culture of the 20s. Yes (1:30:36) was not (1:30:38) Women have choice. Correct was not women, you know, get back in the kitchen get pregnant.You’re knocked up again, correct (1:30:45) You yeah, do you clean the house? Right? Yeah, that’s that’s the culture of the time. Of course just to address (1:30:51) That’s a statement. Yeah, that’s a statement.That’s not a fact. Correct. That is not (1:30:55) Promoting it in any way.Yeah (1:30:57) But that was a culture at the time so in a week her initial I it seemed to me that her original reasoning was (1:31:05) For the liberation of women for that being ready or being able to take care of the child, right? (1:31:10) I make it when you can (1:31:13) Versus when you just get knocked up (1:31:16) Right, so yes, I used it to choice. Yes, absolutely the culture women didn’t have choice back then right (1:31:25) That’s where this eugenics becomes an issue because (1:31:28) She didn’t believe in eugenics in my opinion (1:31:31) It didn’t seem like she she didn’t want people sterilized (1:31:34) She didn’t want people not to have children because they want they just she just wanted you to be able to (1:31:39) Take care of the child for example, correct (1:31:41) Don’t have a kid if you can’t handle it, right and that was her main thing was just base (1:31:45) Simple but eugenics had moved such so far beyond that in their philosophy (1:31:50) Yeah to the point where they’re like, let’s make sure we control everything let’s not let anyone in let’s sterilize 15 million fucking people (1:31:58) Like so for her. I don’t think she realized how (1:32:04) You know, it’s smart for her to do it.Yes the backside of it (1:32:07) She yes, the reasoning for them was like really bad for that’s not how she’s viewed people. I don’t think I would agree (1:32:14) I don’t I again that I don’t think she had bad intentions at all (1:32:18) She I think she had good intentions, right? But again dragged in the negative the negative connotations (1:32:26) sterilization and blah blah blah blah of of (1:32:29) eugenics (1:32:31) They got that got tied to her and that’s unfortunate. Yeah, so then after that they have that movie are you fit to me? (1:32:38) So she used eugenics to sell the use of birth control.It’s basically what she did (1:32:42) Yeah, yeah, and that’s but I mean once again is my opinion that she was all about the you know (1:32:48) The freedom of the person to choose and that’s where the birth control made sense in her mind (1:32:55) So eugenics makes its way in a 1920s American culture and then do you remember the head thing? (1:33:00) The frickin alliteration the tongue twister the thing where they went all around the country (1:33:06) And they had those like competitions. Yeah fitter families. Yeah, do you want do you remember the whole the whole thing? (1:33:12) The whole thing is called (1:33:14) No fitter families for future firesides the fuck does that what the fuck does that mean Frank? (1:33:19) Oh, I think like fireside chats.I mean, is that what you’re trying to tie to fireside chats because of the president Roosevelt (1:33:24) I that’s what I think it was really weird, dude. It was (1:33:27) That that that fitter families that they had in four different states at like state fairs and stuff like that (1:33:33) It was like a family competition. Like is your family tall enough? Is your family smart enough? (1:33:39) This I’m like (1:33:41) Dude, it was like a family beauty contest cut it kind of that’s my term (1:33:47) Yeah, it was definitely some kind it was a contest of vanity in some way smarter prettier, whatever (1:33:53) Yeah more fit and then they all got they got a little trophy if you won and then and then you got to be in (1:33:59) the town parade (1:34:01) That’s weird, man, and they but (1:34:11) And (1:34:12) Then but people were lined up to do that stuff just to participate (1:34:16) That was that’s how popular eugenics was that’s what I found crazy and the word that got me was the next word (1:34:24) Okay (1:34:26) Prominent African Americans started accepting the idea of eugenics.Yes (1:34:32) EB Dubois Dubois (1:34:35) One of the founding father and one of the founders of the NAACP correct the National Association (1:34:42) The advancement of color the advancement of colored people. Yes, sir (1:34:47) He starts (1:34:49) Buying into this idea. Yes.I mean, this is a current organization. Yeah, it’s yeah, that’s right (1:34:55) I’m not saying it’s bad or good. I’m just saying like this is how powerful eugenics was at the time, right is the man (1:35:02) That was heady enough to found that organization was (1:35:08) Sold on it.Yeah, so it was beyond my it it had to really become belief II very faithy (1:35:16) versus (1:35:18) Just straight. I wouldn’t say faith makes sense. You know what I mean, but I would definitely say that it crossed (1:35:23) It obviously it crossed color lines because this gentleman (1:35:28) Incorporated it in into the black community, you know, and he (1:35:33) had the same exact beliefs as Davenport and as all these other guys and (1:35:38) He tried to make his community better in the way that he thought he could right and that’s it.That’s again (1:35:46) the idea seems really novel and (1:35:50) Brilliant like it sounds sound it sounds like a good idea (1:35:54) Yeah, but then it’s so nuanced right because you had the term better babies happier families, right? (1:36:01) Simple slogan, but it’s super it’s super nuanced. It’s it’s layers (1:36:05) What does better babies mean? (1:36:08) You’re eliminating (1:36:10) certain people from (1:36:12) Society because you don’t want them good eliminating them from having babies, right? (1:36:16) Which ultimately removes their entire lineage and all their history goes away, right? (1:36:21) And a lot of people some people have children for legacy and for lineage, right? (1:36:25) Like I didn’t have that need but I could see like my dad is the only person right? (1:36:32) That’s from his family. Yeah, so like having a boy to bring carry on the name.Yeah would be a (1:36:40) Is a novel idea to you know, some people have that right? My brother has a son, so I’m good (1:36:47) Yeah, I got you cuz I don’t have that I don’t you know, my dad’s not gonna well (1:36:52) He’s not with us anymore, but I don’t I’m not gonna have a son (1:36:55) So there’s no more product us. Oh (1:36:59) Oh sad panda. No, it’s gonna be okay, and I’m not gonna lose me a sleepover it (1:37:09) All right, so better babies happier families simple slogan, but very nuanced right? Yeah, and then (1:37:15) Do you want to talk about Carrie Buck? Not really.That’s just some sad shit, bro. All right (1:37:19) Well, tell us about her anyway, so miss Carrie Buck was 17 years old in the state of, Virginia (1:37:25) She was removed from school (1:37:28) in the fifth grade, even though she was doing very well, and she was (1:37:35) Moved around to clean different houses to give money to her family. She was (1:37:43) Raped (1:37:44) By someone in her neighborhood is that I don’t know by who yeah, and he was pregnant (1:37:50) She was taken to an asylum because she was deemed (1:37:55) Morally (1:37:57) Deficient deficient.Thank you. I couldn’t remember the turning I knew your head spinning, but you’re looking for but yes (1:38:02) So labeled morally deficient. Okay, you’re good morally deficient.So (1:38:07) Even though she because she was pregnant out of wedlock (1:38:11) She was labeled morally deficient, but she got pregnant by being raped semicolon, even though she was raped (1:38:20) That’s some fucked-up shit. So this was in (1:38:23) 1930 something and (1:38:26) They correlated (1:38:28) Mental and moral deficiency, so they felt if you were morally deficient like remember we talked about alcoholism (1:38:34) Yeah, right if you were morally deficient, you were also mentally deficient (1:38:38) so (1:38:39) She went to court to contest being sterilized because she gave birth to this child, right? Yes while she was pregnant (1:38:45) Well, she went to court to avoid being sterilized because they wanted to sterilize her at that moment, but didn’t they didn’t (1:38:52) Somebody want to use her as a test case for some new sterilization law or (1:38:57) Harry Laughlin like the appeal process or something like that. What was that about? (1:39:01) Well, Harry Laughlin the the main actor number two that we talked about number two guy.That’s the evangelistic type, dude (1:39:08) I think he’s like the Wozniak. He’s the doer. Yes, like that’s a (1:39:12) Davenport’s like the visionary right down ports a little jobs Ian.Yes, and he has the idea right? Yeah (1:39:19) Laughlin made the shit happen. Like he really carried out. He was the executive branch pretty much at that (1:39:25) Like, you know what? I mean? Yeah, that’s what he did (1:39:30) So he wanted sterilization laws, so there weren’t any laws in place for sterilization (1:39:34) but he’s like we need to do this because if we can (1:39:38) Sterilize X amount of people, you know, we have a better America we can save America.So (1:39:44) What what he wanted to do is have this court case get all the way to the Supreme Court (1:39:51) So Laughlin gets a lawyer to represent this Carrie Buck woman (1:39:56) young lady young lady Carrie Buck (1:40:01) Gets a (1:40:02) eugenics favorable attorney (1:40:05) So that she keeps losing and they keep appealing (1:40:10) So (1:40:11) He doesn’t help her in any way (1:40:13) He’s just trying to move the court case up through to the Supreme Court so they can set a precedence for sterilization (1:40:23) Right, that’s where we’re at. That’s some messed-up stuff, man (1:40:28) Isn’t that basically what happened that is very accurately what happened? (1:40:32) Okay, so it got up to the county then the state Supreme Court then the Supreme Court (1:40:36) So SCOTUS they upheld the sterilization law as constitutional (1:40:40) So now that gave them (1:40:43) pretty much (1:40:44) like free reign what did now how (1:40:48) the fuck is (1:40:51) Sterilization constitutional (1:40:55) wouldn’t that be a an a (1:40:59) Infringement on your personal right like your personal right to your happiness. Yes, right (1:41:05) Where is a mental where’s feeble-mindedness or mental deficiency or moral deficiency defined in the Constitution? (1:41:13) But it’s also it’s all about civil individual human in the alienable human, right? (1:41:17) But you’re also talking about this was a hundred years ago.What was the (1:41:22) What was the mental right the makeup like that was the makeup of SCOTUS? (1:41:27) What was the culture of the country? (1:41:29) Yeah, but the they talked about the head of the Supreme Court was an 86 year old (1:41:37) Oliver Wendell Holmes. Yes, so famous, right? So he was 86 years old at the time (1:41:43) He looked really good for a I was like damn, dude, you look great (1:41:47) But he was the most widely respected legal mind in the country at the time (1:41:51) What what did they say about him and and this case specifically? Do you recall? (1:41:56) He he just read the ruling and he wrote this whole thing and I didn’t take it down because it was just like (1:42:03) Overwhelming. Okay, but I know I don’t want to spoil everything about this document (1:42:07) It was very interesting.We’re talking about it pretty in-depth, but it’s worth watching too late now (1:42:12) Yeah, just saying we gotta watch people gotta watch (1:42:16) So, what were you saying? Yeah, he read the ruling. Yeah. Okay.I just thought it was (1:42:22) If in 1920 (1:42:24) 1930 whenever this happened, this would have been yeah, probably late 20s or early 30s. So you’re talking 90 years ago (1:42:30) The and obviously this the Supreme Court they showed these dudes (1:42:35) It was seven old white guys. They there was not one guy under under the age of 65.Oh, yeah (1:42:41) They were so those dudes were all born (1:42:44) Around the Civil War. I mean these got these were old dudes and I feel like that the conservative mindset in that case (1:42:51) If you know older is more conservative you would guess and it’s an older. It’s a younger country (1:42:56) So it’s probably still more conservative than just liberal (1:43:00) In this way right conservative thought like anyway (1:43:06) They’d be like that’s not constitutional to take away someone’s rights (1:43:09) Like I would just feel like that would be them.That’s the right call, isn’t it? (1:43:14) Well, what’s the defense for you’re talking about taking away their ability to have children now birth? (1:43:21) Isn’t a right protected (1:43:23) Children, isn’t it? (1:43:24) What they have to determine is was the state in the right to pass that law (1:43:35) So and there was 26 states at the time of the 48 that had a law like this (1:43:42) Not exactly the same but like this, right? Yeah, okay (1:43:45) So if you’re not I’m trying to be objective here this so the Supreme Court (1:43:50) has to determine (1:43:53) Is the law constitutional does the law not is it constitutional does it have a conflict? (1:44:01) With the Constitution you’re so smart. Yeah, I well (1:44:05) But you’re well, this is why this is why you’re genius because you put the light bulb on for me and light bulb (1:44:10) You did the the little the little chain this guy (1:44:13) Yeah, the chain thing and then we let it goes bounces around Alexa turn the lights on catches (1:44:18) Okay, like ties up into a knot then sometimes you have to undo that isn’t the worst the worst one that (1:44:23) so the light bulb is (1:44:26) Yes, the state had a sterilization law (1:44:29) Virginia was unconstitutional for the federal government to get involved probably because it’s not it’s in the Constitution and anything (1:44:37) Basically, it says anything not explicitly written in the Constitution. Yeah is up for the state to decide (1:44:43) Yeah, sterilization was not in the Constitution in any way right? Therefore.They couldn’t interfere (1:44:48) That’s probably the ruling that they made you and I definitely see that (1:44:53) Sterilization is an infringement on someone’s right human, right, but it’s whether the Constitution is a right (1:44:58) To get in the way of them. Is there a conflict with that law directly with the Constitution? (1:45:04) And I believe is what they have and we could look it up and you know (1:45:08) You can look up every single Supreme Court case ever and go. Oh, this is what you know (1:45:13) They have to be very specific like they’re they’re the fucking judge dude.Like that’s their job. They (1:45:20) They have to read it literally letter of the law right quote-unquote. Yes.Well, the thing is (1:45:27) Yes, there was a Supreme Court ruling recently about the election and it was thrown out not because there wasn’t evidence or not (1:45:34) They didn’t even look at it because the state one of the states sued and it wasn’t that state’s right to sue (1:45:41) For that another state. Yeah, that’s not even for that like the Supreme Court (1:45:46) I never even look at that was not it wasn’t right. It wasn’t within their rights (1:45:49) And this sounds like this is probably where it went (1:45:51) Thank you for giving that to me because I was totally locked into whether like your individual rights (1:45:57) It’s a right that wasn’t explicitly written in the yeah (1:46:01) Highly doubt that the Constitution ever thought about sterilization.No, probably not (1:46:05) I mean, I don’t think back then it it was called a gunshot wound or gangrene or some shit. Yes gangrene (1:46:11) 19th command, so I’ll remember who’s read this and then so right there (1:46:16) there were 6,000 sterilizations prior to the ruling and that was and (1:46:23) Then it rose to more than double in the six years follow across those 26 states (1:46:28) Yeah, which is just crazy and then and then it said then I have the next note is I have fall 1926 (1:46:33) So this may have been this may have been 25. Yeah, they are pretty good chronological on this (1:46:38) Yeah, they and I they started with the last thing in the first thing, but yeah, I agree (1:46:42) Anyway, so what would you get after that this molar guy the molar dude at the University of Texas at? (1:46:50) Austin was one of the flyboys (1:46:52) He moved from the previous University still doing fly shit (1:46:57) He couldn’t do she couldn’t figure anything out.He was still using the old (1:47:00) Methods with the milk cartons and all that shit. He finally decided that he would (1:47:07) Radiate the flies to see what would happen and (1:47:12) He discovered he could create mutations, which was something that had never been done before (1:47:17) Yeah, so basically he (1:47:19) He ran him under an x-ray or something. Yeah (1:47:22) I think I said that and then (1:47:25) So what basically what that idea that genes were malleable, so he’s like well (1:47:32) This isn’t a fixed thing (1:47:35) Right, it’s not that three-in-one law heredity is not fixed (1:47:39) Yeah, you can make changes and it kind of reminds me of the Kellogg idea right where your diet (1:47:45) Can affect your genes as well.It’s like a reverse way of thinking right because clean clean eating clean life (1:47:53) Clean mind. Yeah, right (1:47:55) Well heredity is not just as simple as the the pea plants of Mendel’s it was about some issues with less desirables are social (1:48:03) So they were saying that sometimes these other issues that come in social issues environmental cultural things can (1:48:12) change (1:48:12) Who you are? (1:48:15) So you’re saying that oh, yeah, they can right because it really is nature and nurture. Yeah, it’s this ultimate fight of nature and nurture (1:48:21) Eugenics is purely (1:48:24) Nature.Yes, sir. Take zero account (1:48:27) Into your starting place in society your your status your parents status your (1:48:35) all the education nothing, so (1:48:39) So what happened after that then sir? No great depression depression. So I give you all the good stuff (1:48:44) So tell you can take it if you want.No, please. You said you gave me all the good stuff (1:48:47) That’s that’s not good stuff. I know it’s (1:48:51) Did a Great Depression it was it became obvious that (1:48:56) Regardless of your situation if you are a doctor or a lawyer you could have been poor real quick (1:49:04) Because everyone lost their money, you know that there was 25% (1:49:08) Unemployment and it was craziness (1:49:10) so you could you could have been a farmer or you could have been a doctor and you could be in the same soup line as (1:49:17) Anybody else so it was obvious that (1:49:19) It wasn’t just a gene.It wasn’t just wasn’t just your (1:49:24) Yeah, yeah that was huge right and then they said it’s it’s society not the individual which is the real criminal and which (1:49:33) stands to be judged and (1:49:35) Eugenics was completely ignorant to social and society issues, which is true because it did not care about nurture or (1:49:42) Which is that side the you know environment? Yeah, absolutely true. So that’s (1:49:49) So they said eugenics might get oh, yes somebody wrote eugenics might yet to perfect the human race but only in the society (1:49:58) consciously organized for the common good (1:50:02) So is that like Star Trek? (1:50:03) Yeah, but the question is this sir. No stay keep it on you, bro.Keep it on you bastard (1:50:11) What what is the common good? (1:50:14) That is also (1:50:15) Didn’t I say that earlier like if if one person is is they’re trying to do the most good for the most people (1:50:23) 26% of the people are still gonna be pissed. So what’s common good, right? Yeah, he’s common good utilitarian (1:50:29) We’re that benefits most people we talk about see that’s what everyone tries to do is like hey (1:50:34) if I make this decision this is gonna help the most people or and and (1:50:39) Or piss off the least amount of people is that that’s that’s what you try to just what everyone (1:50:44) Everyone with the best of intentions is trying to do the most good (1:50:48) Right, but if if we were to look at that once again, I mean we we do talk about the conscious good (1:50:57) as (1:50:58) Yeah as (1:50:59) Half-white as white myself make up the majority of the percentage still of the population in the u.s. Right? So if if (1:51:07) Some thing probably would benefit say white people more (1:51:14) Because that’s a larger percentage. Yeah, then negates the 13% African-american.Yeah, and then (1:51:21) 16% around this is where it becomes very nuanced. Yes. Once again, I get it, dude (1:51:26) We we talk about this stuff because a lot is important and they go.Oh, well, the law is passed to favor white people (1:51:34) well (1:51:35) Because the majority of the people are white so you can you can judge the wording right to make it seem bad (1:51:42) right, but it can but yeah, but also (1:51:48) Sometimes other (1:51:49) Communities groups need different things and other groups like the needs of New York City (1:51:54) Oh, yeah, not the same as the needs of Lincoln, Nebraska. No shit, right? Like go big red, right? (1:51:59) No offense to Lincoln, Nebraska (1:52:01) Thank you for the three people that live there and the two that go big red go big red (1:52:08) Cornhuskers, baby (1:52:10) No, but you understand what I’m saying? (1:52:12) Like it but it could be detrimental to a percentage of society like you said cannot please everyone (1:52:18) It’s impossible. But this and that’s the problem that we always run into with social and and societal issues, right? (1:52:24) So what is consciously the common good? (1:52:27) That’s obviously subjective and back then I would guess the percentage of white people was higher in the 20s (1:52:34) Have to be right.Well, because we got influx and then poppy and then I would think so. Yeah (1:52:39) Yeah, so it probably is even more (1:52:42) detrimental to a to the (1:52:46) Minority community percentage wise I want to say I don’t know because no one’s minority, you know in that way to me (1:52:52) Like everyone’s equal, right? That’s (1:52:55) Where we want that equality, of course. Yeah, at least for the opportunity for sure (1:53:00) So it makes it it makes it tough it makes it tough (1:53:02) Tough situation what the common good is kind of thing, you know, just stuff we try to always think about I love I love the thought (1:53:08) experience we have (1:53:11) Okay, dude, okay the next point yes, it’s a good one I’m gonna give it to you, okay (1:53:19) July (1:53:21) 1933 (1:53:26) Oh, there you go Hitler comes to power (1:53:29) to do (1:53:31) He immediately enshrines eugenics in state policy (1:53:36) created a law that mandated (1:53:39) Mandated sterilization of citizens who had any one of nine (1:53:45) Presumably presumably presumably heritable conditions presumably like heritable (1:53:51) Heritable right or just heritable means it can be passed on.Okay. Yeah in or not. Yes (1:53:57) Yeah, you know on under around around (1:54:02) to over (1:54:06) All the conditions all nine of the conditions so and some were like alcoholism and some other shit (1:54:13) Yeah, so none of (1:54:15) They were questionable.I mean I didn’t list them and I wish they would right I saw six (1:54:21) I read something on the screen where they had it like on the news president in German (1:54:25) No, no, it said alcoholism and it said feeble my I think there were like there were nine anyway (1:54:30) They’re on there are six and I’m like, well, that’s not nine (1:54:33) So I didn’t take that as the direct ones that they were calling unless they broke them down into different categories of each one (1:54:39) But regardless it was nine (1:54:41) Presumably heritable conditions meaning that they could get them from their offspring or give that to their offspring, right? Yes (1:54:48) So it was based on a model law (1:54:52) written by (1:54:53) Bump-bump bombs her take it from here. Mr. Laughlin the Steve was an ASCII guy (1:54:59) It’s named Steve. What no, it’s Steve Jobs and oh, what was not as sad is (1:55:07) Steve Wazowski (1:55:11) Wozniak was yes (1:55:14) Sorry, bro, got me screwed up with Brian Bosworth.Oh, and then I started thinking about Bo Jackson what him running over him (1:55:21) And see how so the law the sterilization law that mr. Laughlin wrote (1:55:29) is (1:55:30) The Nazis basically copied it (1:55:33) not word-for-word obviously ones in German, but it’s not identical, but it’s very similar and (1:55:40) Laughlin was he felt honored that they did that and he had correspondence with Germans German scientists. Yes, which (1:55:49) Obviously was disturbing (1:55:51) But at the time they didn’t (1:55:53) The American they polled yet, right? They didn’t know where it was going, right, right? (1:56:00) They like oh, they’re trying to make it. They’re trying to make a better country cool, but (1:56:05) They also, you know, you have they’re having some problems (1:56:09) so (1:56:12) During (1:56:13) It (1:56:14) Was it Hitler’s imprisonment in World War one, is that correct? He read the passing of the great race, which was mr. Grant’s book (1:56:23) About the Nordic race.Yes, sir. Mr. Grant was the older white dude that his ancestors signed the Declaration of Independence and (1:56:33) Didn’t what was it? What point did I miss you wrote him a family? He wrote him a fest that that was it (1:56:38) so Hitler wrote Madison Grant an (1:56:42) American rich guy a fan letter (1:56:44) That’s crazy. I am reading his book (1:56:48) Hitler writes Mein Kampf and (1:56:51) basically, which is his autobiography and he states that which I believe you already stated that (1:56:59) the Germans should be (1:57:01) Doing what the Americans are doing in the vein of eugenics (1:57:06) Germans must emulate (1:57:09) What the Americans are doing (1:57:13) Hitler’s words and (1:57:16) We were the good guys (1:57:18) Just to say it’s kind of I would you say that’s Alanis Morissette Ian’s I? (1:57:24) Do need a knife right now a spork bro, that’s just crazy (1:57:31) the the Nazis sterilized (1:57:34) 400,000 of their own people (1:57:38) that’s that’s (1:57:43) I’ve it’s actually worse than that.Of course it is, but they said on the show no fewer than well (1:57:48) Let’s just well think about what no fewer than means it could be a million. Yeah, of course, but (1:57:53) I’m just saying I know dude that that no fewer than (1:57:58) Chink could be a big number. Yeah, and that’s just I mean like 400 isn’t enough for a thousand enough (1:58:08) 25 times the number that we had at that.Yeah, right (1:58:12) So they see Germans do everything better (1:58:18) Well (1:58:19) Better or we’re just more efficient. I would say more extreme. Yeah, you know, they don’t fuck around (1:58:26) We do not Deutschmark does not fuck around with these things.We’ll very we take our eugenics very seriously (1:58:33) We we are very serious about our eugenics (1:58:36) programs and how many (1:58:38) We shall sterilize no fewer than (1:58:42) 400,000 (1:58:44) It’s a lot of motherfucking people. I know (1:58:47) It’s ridiculous. I mean and like (1:58:56) No, I can’t say stuff like that, okay next yeah go you’re up.No, I just talked you did (1:59:03) Yeah, damn it. So not silly law. Yes.Tell us about it (1:59:07) It applied to everyone whether you were institutionalized or whether you you know (1:59:11) You were in jail or you were in an asylum or you were a dude working on the corner store selling oranges (1:59:17) That didn’t matter. That’s how you get 400,000 plus right? It’s like damn (1:59:22) that’s messed up and then I (1:59:26) Could you know I could see how it led right into (1:59:30) the hatred of Jews and just like it’s just (1:59:34) That bulldozer effect is almost how do you (1:59:39) It’s kind of like what we said before once it’s once it stops. You can’t once it starts.You can’t stop it (1:59:44) It becomes its own animal, you know in a way and maybe I’m not being articulate enough in what I’m trying to say (1:59:50) You’re doing very well. Oh, thank you so much (1:59:55) Sir, what are you looking up bro? I was actually looking up. Yes (2:00:01) The pop German population in (2:00:05) 1936 (2:00:07) 30 but I can’t find the exact population (2:00:12) But I’m just wondering what 400,000 is like (2:00:14) Obviously their population is less than ours was remember we had they want to do 15 million Americans (2:00:19) Yeah, and it was 97 million Americans.So percent 16 percent, right? (2:00:23) So they had less than obviously had less than 97 million Germans at the time (2:00:28) I think there’s only like 80 million now, so I’d have to look at what that population was (2:00:34) If that makes sense, yeah, I got you in 39 (2:00:37) It was 86 million, but that’s wrong because that was all included territories. They took a hole and I wouldn’t frail German (2:00:45) right (2:00:46) All parts of Africa and all that at that time like so obviously that’s not the correct number (2:00:53) But it looks like 1934. Oh (2:00:57) hmm (2:00:59) Sixty six million (2:01:00) for her night that so 66 million and maybe that maybe that was correct, but I mean (2:01:05) I’m just saying 400,000 people sterilized (2:01:08) Yikes, and like it didn’t matter like to your point whether you’re institutionalized or not or whether you you didn’t I don’t know (2:01:14) What kind of tests they had like how the like it was just those nine traits, right? And is that big? (2:01:20) Was it like oh, hey (2:01:23) John (2:01:24) Down at the corner store.Yeah, he’s trait number eight (2:01:26) Get John now like it wasn’t that simple. They just believe somebody. Oh, yeah, he’s feeble-minded (2:01:33) Because he forgets shit.What? (2:01:37) Like it is that what happened and then they used meth (2:01:41) to do blitzkrieg (2:01:43) Like hello. I’m sorry. So so this supposedly rooted out alcoholism (2:01:50) So we’re a lot a number of their soldiers sterilized they probably must have been well (2:01:55) They didn’t they didn’t care if the soldiers were sterilized.They just needed bodies. No. No, what I’m saying is like yes (2:02:00) I think they would have been sterilized.They would have probably had vasectomies or something at that (2:02:03) Yes, they had no dad no tubes, bro (2:02:05) like a lot of them just because like (2:02:07) They were fucking drug addicts at that point because they were using that pervacel shit to herself (2:02:12) Some it was some over-the-counter fucking meth that they were taking. Yes, it’s crazy (2:02:17) And you know, they’ve talked about Hitler and his pervacel some addictions. He was in a leakage and dry earlobes (2:02:24) Ashy skin, that’s the worst.It’s the worst (2:02:28) Yeah, so in my account he writes my comp so they sterilized for a thousand plus (2:02:34) and then it drew attention in America because (2:02:38) 27 of 48 states had laws about sterilizing the feeble-minded (2:02:42) so 27 of 48 states had laws (2:02:46) That the Germans were (2:02:47) Executing to perfection or to really damn near perfection, which in this case perfection is bad (2:02:54) Well, yeah, and we’re that just shows the United States is no is no better, you know (2:03:00) You know in the United States in the Western (2:03:04) Hemisphere and well in and in Western Europe (2:03:07) Germany’s painted as an evil evil Empire, right? (2:03:11) But the United States half the goddamn country it has the same law (2:03:16) There’s we’re no better than they are. That’s fucked up. Yeah, and not only that is a (2:03:23) law that was here (2:03:27) Was a blueprint for theirs.Yeah, and it was beyond just us doing it ourselves like (2:03:32) We they modeled there’s after us. That’s how much they respect how good we did it. How good the long good we did bad things (2:03:41) They just took the well we executed it better to your point, right they just perfected it (2:03:45) Yes, they made a better wheel or something.So (2:03:49) 1930s was a peak of eugenic sterilization money played a huge part in the 30s and then this movie tomorrow’s children in (2:03:57) 1934 wasn’t something about her parents being like alcoholics or whatever. It turns out she was adopted the whole time (2:04:02) so she wasn’t even a part of (2:04:05) Wasn’t even the part of she wasn’t even part of the family in the first place like genetically (2:04:09) Yeah, I didn’t remember that part. How did I miss that? I don’t know but that was so (2:04:14) That was the other part then they had the Americans were enthralled by the case of an Cooper Hewitt (2:04:19) Right once how the whole thing started and that’s how the whole thing started.Let’s refresh us on that sir (2:04:25) What’s on here and Cooper Hewitt was the socialite young 30-something girl that her mother sterilized without her authorization (2:04:34) and then she sued the to her mom and the two doctors and (2:04:37) The case in Frisco against the doctors was thrown out of court since there was a law on the books in California that (2:04:44) sterilization was legal and then by the end of the 30s more than 30,000 Americans were sterilized nationwide and (2:04:51) then this is where it really turned right because Nazi Germany took eugenics from sterilization to (2:04:58) extermination and (2:04:59) Then they showed all the Jews and the concentration camps and the stuff that just the bad bad bad stuff (2:05:05) It’s really tough to watch every time it’s like you know, all those images are just on (2:05:11) unbelievable (2:05:13) Though how that were capable of that, but we are the human race, but we are oh, yeah (2:05:18) And it’s crazy to even think that because it just anyway, it was a huge black eye for eugenics, right? (2:05:23) It was an embarrassment because basically they’re like not only (2:05:27) Do we you know, are we sterilizing the lessers from breeding? We’re gonna get rid of the ones that are the lessers (2:05:34) Well in their opinion, right? (2:05:37) Right, but I’m saying that’s getting rid of anyone is really scary at that point when you start eliminating people (2:05:45) Yeah, cuz you’re like who where do you stop? Who’s next right? (2:05:48) It reminds me of the French Revolution where everyone’s being convicted and like of whatever treason making shit (2:05:54) I think he right where they get best deal that whatever the guillotine there everyone got the guillotine (2:05:58) Everyone’s fucking getting killed like the guy who rescued the people and just became their leader then gets (2:06:04) Whatever for you know for monarchy ism or whatever off with his head right crazy shit. So local anyway (2:06:13) Then it was a black eye, right (2:06:14) so yeah, and then Holocaust was eugenics to the highest extreme and (2:06:19) Then by the end of the 70s American sterilization exceeded 60,000. I think the point of that is that in the (2:06:27) 1970s there were still (2:06:29) sterilization laws on the books in the United States of America (2:06:36) disco (2:06:37) bell-bottoms (2:06:38) Big cars and sterilization Jimmy Carter and sterilization that gas lines gas lines inflation, bro (2:06:45) And and and sterilization.Are you serious? (2:06:48) So these laws passed in the 20s stayed in the books for 50 years and in the 1970s people thought it was still (2:06:55) okay, I was alive and (2:06:59) People thought it was still okay (2:07:01) That’s that’s I I find that (2:07:05) Just not I find it shocking (2:07:08) Utterly completely shocking especially in America. That’s really I (2:07:15) mean and (2:07:16) I I (2:07:18) Don’t know how well intended they these ideas were. I feel like in the beginning the the intentions were really good (2:07:27) But yeah, the original idea (2:07:29) When you but when you and I do the look-ahead thing when you look down the road (2:07:34) Doesn’t inevitably come to this conclusion where that means you’re getting rid of some people (2:07:40) Like because you’re either breeding them out or you’re fucking eliminating.Yeah, like (2:07:45) That’s clearly seen right away in my opinion (2:07:51) Right. Yeah (2:07:53) So eugenics this was sterilization so they bred right and yes, the chances are higher (2:08:01) To pass on good genes or pass on dominant genes, correct and lower with lesser genes (2:08:07) so if you have pair of dominant genes, they carry on lesser gene generally that the what’s that called the (2:08:13) not the submissive gene the (2:08:15) Dominant and pass it pass. No (2:08:18) Shit, the other aggressive regressive.Sure (2:08:22) We’re not dominant regressive. I think it’s regressive regressive. You’re correct.Yeah the regressive gene (2:08:28) Then doesn’t right but to the fruit fly point. It’s not exact (2:08:33) Right, but now we are in this world of technology (2:08:37) Where we talk about Gattaca (2:08:40) We could talk about cool movie, bro. Tell us about Gattaca.What’s going on? I don’t it’s got Ethan (2:08:45) What’s his name in it? And that’s how I remember there’s a spaceship and the thermo thermon. That’s all I remember (2:08:50) I don’t remember (2:08:52) And they were trying to have a baby (2:08:54) But the baby is not genetically this or that and they had to like do fake blood tests and shit (2:08:59) I don’t I don’t remember it. That’s all I don’t remember shit dude.Okay, so I need to see it again (2:09:06) Yes, basically, it’s the future (2:09:08) you can (2:09:11) Make your children better through Jeanette like gene splicing and all this weird shit (2:09:15) But didn’t he not qualify for it or something, right? (2:09:17) He wanted well, he was going to be in the military. He wanted to be an astronaut, but he had a heart murmur (2:09:23) He so he wasn’t a hundred percent healthy and they found that early on his life. So he’s never allowed (2:09:27) Meanwhile his brother was like the fastest.Oh, whatever. So he’s genetically superior, but this heart murmur made him insufficient (2:09:35) But Jude Law was a guy who was genetically superior and he was like an athlete like a gold medal (2:09:41) Gymnast or some or whatever some sport, but he broke he got in a car accident or something and he couldn’t walk anymore (2:09:48) So he acted like the other guy. So he put him he was an imposter (2:09:52) So he so Ethan Hawke posed as Jude Law (2:09:56) So he used all his identification with his face and stuff (2:10:00) So he could live so he could become an astronaut and go out in outer space (2:10:04) Okay, and then they you know, there’s a whole twist and turn blah blah blah (2:10:07) So like he has to be very careful because they check for genetic material all the time genetic material (2:10:12) But like and I think they catched an eyelash or something (2:10:16) Dun-dun-dun (2:10:19) Now that you gave me a summary of the movie I’m not gonna watch it you should watch it it’s totally worth watching now (2:10:25) Okay, that’s all my notes sir.Yeah, that’s all we’re talking about. So the but this is where eugenics now we extend it (2:10:31) It’s no longer about (2:10:34) Sterilization to the point of this CRISPR stuff, right we can (2:10:39) actually modify (2:10:40) Genetic makeup and put it into a child. That’s disturbing.I (2:10:52) Know (2:10:55) No, that’s just no (2:10:58) We talked about it, right the Chinese twins (2:11:00) They took out a gene that was that’s linked to (2:11:04) Getting HIV (2:11:06) So they took genetic they genetically took that out of their genetic sequence. Whatever that whatever it was. Yeah, and (2:11:14) The side effect (2:11:16) Was increased memory and intelligence or something this that was a side effect (2:11:22) Right.That was a side effect (2:11:24) But the intention was to not get HIV because it can’t attach to that (2:11:30) Genome or whatever sequence genetic sequence, but the side effect was an increased intelligence and memory (2:11:37) And the guy did it and he made babies out of it like (2:11:43) That’s (2:11:43) like what (2:11:46) Where then, you know, then it really becomes financial, right if I can afford this (2:11:50) Enhancement if I can afford to get my blood filtered or my egg, you know harvested (2:11:56) Yeah (2:11:57) And and get this added and this removed and whatnot (2:12:00) It then even becomes more of a separation of class right class and social structure because people the haves can do it (2:12:07) So they’ll do it and they’ll get even (2:12:08) Better right? Yeah, I see your point and they have knots are stagnant. So what well that yeah, I see how you would say (2:12:19) It’s just (2:12:20) Genetics at a in a different way, you know, yeah, I (2:12:24) Get it right because it really it is about perfecting humanity or what? (2:12:29) Yeah, better people, right? Yeah, so, you know not being able to get HIV is a healthier, baby (2:12:35) Yeah, and the side effect of memory and intelligence is great (2:12:38) It’s actually a really positive side effect. However (2:12:43) What if no one else does that to their society, right? And then these people have 10% (2:12:51) Better cognitive ability 10% is a huge chunk.Oh hell. Yeah, dude (2:12:55) Like just just able to multitask or some weird added thing that they have (2:13:00) Right memories a good one because memories are very important for a lot of things and then you know, they’re better (2:13:07) So like well, hey, let’s do more of that because that was good but what are the really ramifications in that right once again (2:13:13) it’s gonna separate groups even more in an extreme way and (2:13:23) Quickly exponentially. Yeah, because it’s gonna happen.I think it’s gonna happen faster (2:13:27) Yeah, like eugenics took right a year. This is through this is through generation. They can do this in one egg (2:13:33) Make all the added and this will happen like in a year, right? (2:13:38) You mean like the baby the birth right exactly.So a year where? (2:13:42) Eugenics previously took 30 years, right? So or multiple generations. Yes, correct 80 100 years (2:13:48) Well, yeah, but you know what I mean like right but you had you know, you’re trying to keep breeding the way you want to (2:13:53) Breathe. Yeah, that’s some scary shit, dude.That’s really fucking weird. It’s crazy. Yeah (2:13:58) All right.Well, that was great (2:14:01) What does everybody think (2:14:03) Yeah, tell us watch the documentary on PBS. Very good. We’ll put the American experience (2:14:10) eugenics crusade (2:14:12) No idea about it.It was super interesting episode 11. It’s worth a watch and (2:14:17) We all try to be better right but at what point is it not out is the cost too much and then (2:14:23) beer Google (2:14:24) famous people and (2:14:27) Eugenics and see what names pop up next. That’s good.I like that’s a good book. That’s a good beer Google. That’s really scary (2:14:32) Okay, great.I’m not gonna say or oh, yeah, I forgot about that person. Yeah, that’s people, right? (2:14:37) I forgot yay. So just do that be like famous people who believe in eugenics nowadays eugenics supporters.Yes (2:14:45) Athletic supporters, but not not actually publicly (2:14:49) puggled publicly announced but behind the scenes right or (2:14:53) correlated to linked to just interesting (2:14:57) I’m gonna watch. Yeah, so that has been eugenics in me and you I am eugenics liver all of us (2:15:04) Thank you so much Tyler Durgan (2:15:07) Yes (2:15:09) I am Jack spleen right but any closing arguments or closing statements possibly the only one I have left is (2:15:18) The excellent to each other party on do