“Zero Days” documentary by Alex Gibney

Chris and Mark discuss the Alex Gibney documentary “Zero Days”. It’s a fascinating conversation about cyber warfare and overall ethics.
https://www.amazon.com/Zero-Days-Colonel-Gary-Brown/dp/B01I2EJOW0
Intro Music: “Blue Scorpion” Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com) Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/
Dive Horn: https://freesound.org/s/104882
Trombone Wah-Wah-Wah-Waaaaah: https://freesound.org/s/175409
Outro Music: “Neolith” Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com) Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/

Transcript:

(0:05) Broadcasting live from the Treehouse in Phoenix, Arizona. (0:08) It’s Knocked Conscious. (0:09) With Mark Poles and… (0:11) Chris Woodsey-Peralta.(0:13) From the home offices in Gilbert, Arizona. (0:18) Back on you. (0:19) Back on me.I love when you say, get off me, man. (0:22) Get off me. (0:23) Mike, dude, I’m not on you.(0:24) I know, but I feel like violated. (0:27) I’ll hug you later and buy dinner. I’ll cuddle.(0:30) I’m not like, it’s not like I’m, you know, (0:32) gonna bang you and then leave. (0:34) I don’t need the camera. (0:35) What are we talking about? (0:36) To mount me.(0:37) I mount the camera. It doesn’t mount me. (0:40) Depends where it’s mounted, bro.(0:42) Where it’s mounted, bro. (0:43) Oh, shit. (0:45) How are you, sir? (0:46) I’m good.(0:46) How are you? (0:47) Welcome. (0:48) Happy rainy Sunday. (0:50) January 24th.(0:51) Hard rain here. (0:53) Yeah. (0:53) It hit hard here.(0:54) I don’t know how bad it was in the G-Town. (0:55) And the G-Town, also Tambien. (0:56) The Treehouse got soaked, my friends.(0:59) That’s what I’m talking about. (1:00) That’s rare. (1:01) Yes.(1:02) It’s weird that it rains in Phoenix. (1:04) But a beautiful day. (1:05) We have the windows slightly open.(1:07) A little crisp, fresh air coming in. (1:09) That’s lovely. (1:10) Is it a little cold? (1:11) A little chill? (1:11) No, it’s great, bro.(1:12) But nice. (1:12) No, it’s not bad. (1:13) I guess my blood thinned because… (1:15) Oh, yeah, we’re bitches, dude.(1:17) I used to be… (1:17) We’re little bitches. (1:18) I remember playing soccer in the snow with shorts, you know, stuff like that. (1:23) That was us.(1:25) But please… (1:26) Hey, may I say it again? (1:27) Get off me, bro. (1:29) We’re referring to the camera being on checkmark for too long. (1:33) So, Knocked Conscious.(1:35) We have a documentary I stumbled on which… (1:39) Upon which I stumbled… (1:40) Upon which? (1:40) On the Amazon Prime, and it’s free. (1:44) Yeah. (1:44) What’s it called, sir? (1:45) Zero Days.(1:47) And what’s it about, sir? (1:49) It is about the cyber attack in 2010 on a Iranian nuclear facility. (1:59) Is that… (2:00) Did I… (2:01) Did I summarize that correctly? (2:02) That sounds very correct. (2:03) And if you were George W., it would have been nuclear.(2:05) Nuclear. (2:06) The strategery of the Iran… (2:09) Mission accomplished. (2:11) Chinese.(2:13) We’ve gone through all that. (2:15) Oh, that’s some funny shit. (2:16) That is… (2:16) I just love nu… (2:17) Nu… (2:19) Nuclear… (2:19) Nuclear versus nuclear.(2:22) It’s like Realtor. (2:23) Do you say Realtor or do you say Realtor? (2:26) Realtor. (2:26) Okay.(2:27) I say Realtor. (2:28) Is there a wrong way to say it? (2:29) Yes. (2:30) It’s spelled… (2:31) It’s spelled Realtor.(2:33) Oh, there’s no A. (2:34) It’s Realtor. (2:35) Yeah, correct. (2:35) Okay.(2:36) But everyone says Realtor. (2:37) Is this episode about how to pronounce shit? (2:40) Xerox. (2:41) Xerox.(2:42) Kleenex. (2:42) I don’t know. (2:43) Realtor.(2:45) Yeah, Realtor. (2:46) Realtor. (2:47) Realtor.(2:48) Realtor. (2:49) Most people say, like, my Realtor. (2:51) I sold my house.(2:51) Call my Realtor up. (2:52) That’s how people in Philly say it. (2:54) Yeah, over there they do.(2:56) So I stumbled across a documentary by Alex Gibney. (3:01) Who’s that? (3:02) Alex Gibney, I find very amazing because he has a shit ton of documentaries he’s done, (3:08) including Going Clear, which is big. (3:11) And that’s the Scientology one? (3:14) The Scientology one.(3:14) Okay. (3:15) Uh, so an Enron one, the one, the HBO one about the Theranos with the woman, with the (3:23) thing, Elizabeth. (3:23) With the blood? (3:25) Elizabeth something.(3:25) I need to watch that one. (3:25) I haven’t seen it. (3:26) It’s creepy.(3:27) Every time I see her, when I watch that documentary, it was like, it puts a lotion on its skin. (3:33) The way she talks. (3:34) Oh.(3:35) She has kind of a man voice. (3:37) She does? (3:38) Does she want to tear people’s skin off and use it as a lamp? (3:43) Allegedly, she wanted to make a valuation of $9 billion, a worthless company. (3:49) So, you know.(3:52) I might watch that later. (3:53) You know what? (3:54) It’s a very interesting one. (3:55) I’m on, I’m on a weird documentary kick, but like some of these are very interesting.(3:59) So what we found about this, this was about just cyber attacks in general, how this came (4:04) to be. (4:04) This specific one was about Iran, correct? (4:07) Yes, sir. (4:08) And do you want to elaborate a little bit more about the particulars in this? (4:14) What, what, I don’t, you want to.(4:17) The story, the timeline of how, how we want to start. (4:20) Are you asking me a question? (4:21) I did not take one. (4:22) I have, I have two, I have two points.(4:26) Points. (4:26) So my notes are very thin today and they are more towards the end. (4:33) Towards the end of the, of the two hour documentarian.(4:36) So this is going to be nice and short then. (4:38) 17 minutes. (4:39) Excellent.(4:40) Zero days, 17 minutes. (4:43) How many pages of notes did you take? (4:45) I took no notes because I overtake notes. (4:48) So no, I did not take notes because this is your idea.(4:52) So this is awesome. (4:53) Realtor. (4:55) Basically what happened? (4:56) Basically what happened with that? (4:59) It’s so crazy.(5:00) The timeline, because in 1981, Israel helped an Iran work together to bomb Iraq, Iraq’s (5:11) nuclear facility. (5:13) And that was during the Iran Iraq war, correct? (5:18) Yes. (5:19) But then it was afterward.(5:20) Didn’t we help Iraq defeat Iran in Iran Contra, which was shortly after that, correct? (5:27) 86, right? (5:28) So I’m thinking like, right. (5:29) So like it, we, how many times did we shuffle sides? (5:33) When you say we, you mean the United States of America government. (5:35) Yeah.(5:36) Not necessarily the people, but the government’s activities with those (5:39) middle Eastern countries. (5:41) Yeah. (5:41) How many times did we flip floppy flop flip? (5:43) Well, they wear flip flops in the desert because I know, because I live in the desert (5:46) and I wear flip flop, flop flips.(5:48) Tevas. (5:49) Just like Jesus. (5:50) No, I wear Obi Jobies.(5:51) Tevas like, jeez, Birkenstocks. (5:53) Birkenstocks. (5:54) Is it, were they Jesus sandals? (5:56) Jesus what? (5:57) Jesus cruisers.(5:58) I thought they were just Jesus sandals. (6:00) I don’t know. (6:00) There’s a term.(6:01) I don’t know what it is. (6:02) Hazy swear? (6:03) Yes, he is. (6:04) Does he swear? (6:05) Hazy swear? (6:06) He does not swear.(6:07) No, that’s against the fourth commandment, bro. (6:08) Oh, that should not. (6:09) Thou shall not take my name in vain, bro.(6:12) What? (6:13) Jeez. (6:13) Can’t say fuck. (6:14) Say fucking Jesus, babe.(6:16) Fucking Jesus. (6:18) Anyway, we, we find this interesting flip flop in a way because like they, they start with (6:25) 2010 and our 2000, like six or seven, eight with the beginning with Bush and putting (6:30) together Bush W sorry, the Chinese. (6:35) And then we go back to 1981.(6:40) So Israel was with Iran. (6:42) Now they’re against Iran because allegedly what happens is Belarus, is that the country (6:49) in which the virus was initially founded? (6:51) That’s the country in which it was discovered. (6:53) And the virus we’re talking about is Stuxnet, correct? (6:56) And we’re not talking about a virus in the sense of medical virus.(7:01) We’re talking about a malware virus that’s made via a computer and sent via the internet (7:10) to infect someone else’s machine to do something bad. (7:13) Yes. (7:13) So it’s a computer term virus.(7:15) No, it’s not like COVID at all. (7:17) It’s a computer virus. (7:18) Computer software program to affect systems or things or have some kind of action.(7:25) To give outside entity control to either monitor or take action. (7:30) And then it doesn’t necessarily mean harmful. (7:32) It means it could just grab information and then use it against you, et cetera.(7:38) Yes. (7:38) Like classified information. (7:40) Cyber security, bro.(7:42) Excellent. (7:43) This virus then is discovered in Belarus, but, uh, Symantec, right? (7:48) I think. (7:49) No, Symantec is the one that they took it.(7:51) They took it. (7:52) They, uh, the gentleman in Belarus that discovered it. (7:54) That was a really nice guy in the gray suit, right? (7:57) No, that wasn’t him.(7:58) He was the guy on the video call. (8:00) That’s that spoken part English, part Russian. (8:03) Okay.(8:03) That, um, that was the guy who discovered it. (8:05) Oh, yes. (8:06) Then he put a, uh, no warning out or he put a note out on the internet.(8:10) Uh, on a cyber security page says, Hey, I found this. (8:15) Please check it out. (8:17) It’s incredibly disturbing.(8:18) And then there were multiple comments underneath that. (8:21) Like, wow, we need to look at this. (8:22) Wow.(8:22) That’s amazing discovery, et cetera. (8:24) Then the two Symantec guys got involved. (8:26) And that’s Eric Chen.(8:28) And the other guy was less, he was English, British. (8:32) Yeah. (8:32) They were interesting guys.(8:34) Smart as shit, dude. (8:36) Oh yeah. (8:36) They just, the way they, the way the deductive reasoning of how they came to discover what it (8:41) was.(8:41) So they find this virus and they’re like, WTF is this? (8:46) I think they actually said hashtag WTF. (8:50) I think they tweeted it out. (8:51) They go, Hey, we just got this virus y’all.(8:53) WTF. (8:54) What the frack? (8:55) One of the interesting things I found early in the documentary was. (8:59) The complexity of this thing that was written, this code that they found.(9:03) Yes. (9:03) And they said most are decoded in a day or two or something like that or the entire virus. (9:10) Yes.(9:10) This they’re a month in and they’re just starting to figure out it’s quote unquote payload or (9:16) and it’s target it’s objective. (9:19) Yeah. (9:19) What is it designed to do? (9:21) Where is it designed to go? (9:23) And there’s multiple levels within that.(9:26) Which was crazy. (9:26) And it’s a month in. (9:27) Yeah.(9:27) So do you, did you understand the zero days conversation? (9:32) I absolutely did. (9:32) Okay. (9:33) Can you share it? (9:33) Because I’m, I’ll be honest.(9:35) I watched it twice and I’m still a little confused what zero days means. (9:39) Zero days means that there is no warning that that malware will infect the computer and it (9:48) will sit there and you won’t even know it’s there. (9:51) And then it’s designed to execute when a certain threshold or parameters met.(9:57) And the people that own that system have no warning. (10:00) Hence, no warning, zero days. (10:02) You’ve got no countdown clock.(10:04) Like this software is going to go take a shit in two days. (10:07) No, there’s, there’s zero warning. (10:09) Right.(10:10) Okay. (10:10) So a lot of them are like ransomware. (10:12) Yes.(10:13) Give us money in the next 10 hours or else. (10:16) Right. (10:17) Correct.(10:17) Where you’re talking about this zero days thing is just an immediate (10:21) launching of the code or launching of the application. (10:24) Or executing the program itself. (10:27) Without.(10:27) It could sit there. (10:28) Right. (10:29) It can still sit there and be dormant.(10:30) For infinity. (10:32) Right. (10:32) As long as the system is powered on.(10:33) But it gives no warning. (10:34) It’s not for a purpose of warning. (10:37) Correct.(10:37) Like a, like a ransomware or some other ones that just want to fuck with you. (10:40) Yes. (10:41) Okay.(10:42) That makes sense. (10:43) And they said that this particular code had four zero days programs in it. (10:50) Yes.(10:50) Correct. (10:51) And the total that year was how many? (10:54) Was four. (10:55) 12.(10:55) Right. (10:56) Okay. (10:56) Yeah, yeah, yeah.(10:56) Right. (10:57) 12 total, including those four, I believe. (11:00) So they’re pretty rare.(11:00) And there was not one since. (11:02) I believe that’s right. (11:04) So a release in, you know, the documentary, I mean, maybe.(11:06) Which was released in 2016. (11:08) Yeah. (11:08) Something like that.(11:11) But holy mackinolly. (11:13) That’s just so interesting to me. (11:18) Um, perhaps I’m jumping ahead.(11:21) But what I found most interesting was the layers of the code that they kept explaining (11:27) over a two hour period and how the code is supposed to sit there for 13 days and do nothing. (11:36) Then it’s the second part is, okay, it’s going to execute section B, (11:41) which means it’s going to try to infect a certain device. (11:45) Then section C, the third zero day, it’s supposed to do something else (11:49) to trick the systems that it’s messing with to think everything’s fine.(11:54) The complexity of the code I thought was, and I’m not a coder, so I don’t, (11:59) I understand the basic theories and concept. (12:01) But I thought it was genius at how deep each section went that I found that mind boggling. (12:10) What was interesting was the actual virus wasn’t large in size, (12:15) but the file was so huge because it had to run on its own.(12:21) Right. (12:22) It had to be autonomous. (12:23) It had to be able to spread on its own.(12:24) Remember they, it was going to be air gap. (12:26) So yes, they knew they just had to get it on the system and then it was going to enact itself. (12:30) So even though the file was like four times or something larger than any other file or some, (12:35) they said some number that it was not, and it didn’t have many bugs either.(12:41) That was the other thing. (12:42) It was a very clean program. (12:44) There was no, what the, what the two guys from Semantic said was that (12:48) most malware files, most attacks like that, usually there’s little clues.(12:55) Or have errors. (12:56) Yeah. (12:56) Errors are little clues, little pieces of bread to find a trail, right? (13:02) So that a hacker will not do something correctly, not on purpose, (13:07) but yet that’s how Symantec and antivirus companies (13:11) will find out the purpose of that, of that code.(13:14) And there was no mistakes at all. (13:16) Yeah. (13:16) They found that really interesting.(13:17) So it was, but like, so this thing is huge. (13:21) So it had to run on its own, but then they later find out (13:25) the one that got their attention was version 1.1. (13:29) Yes. (13:30) And then they started going backwards.(13:32) Yes. (13:32) Because they’re like, well, if there’s a version 1.1. (13:35) Yeah. (13:37) Maybe they were pretty, maybe they were previous.(13:39) So they started looking for this code backwards, right? (13:42) Yes. (13:42) And they find previous versions, 0.65, or I think 0.5 was the lowest that we saw. (13:48) Or at least they showed us whatever, even if that’s true or not, it doesn’t matter.(13:51) Right. (13:52) Regardless, there were previous versions. (13:53) They confirmed that.(13:54) Yes. (13:55) And maybe they didn’t give the exact version because they don’t want to like, (13:59) you know, dox it either. (14:00) Because that can be dangerous.(14:01) Yes. (14:01) No doxing. (14:02) Who knows? (14:02) Yeah.(14:03) No doc. (14:03) No doxing. (14:05) Doxons? (14:06) Okay.(14:06) Yes. (14:07) Doxing? (14:07) Not okay. (14:08) D-bone.(14:09) D-bone. (14:13) Um, anyway, the point of that was, I don’t remember now. (14:18) Poop.(14:19) What were we talking about? (14:20) I don’t, I don’t know. (14:21) Damn it. (14:22) Would you like me to move on? (14:23) Or are we going to sing the Jeopardy song? (14:26) Damn it.(14:27) So I think, I think let’s make it clear. (14:30) I’m going to, I’m going to reveal a, uh, what do you call it? (14:35) Spoiler. (14:35) Spoiler alert.(14:37) That the, what was determined after months of research and trying to figure this all out was that (14:46) the, should I go down this road or not? (14:49) Say, I don’t even know what road you’re going down because it’s such an open conversation, man. (14:53) Fucking A. (14:54) This is what it’s about. (14:55) We love talking.(14:55) That, uh, the people that wrote the code and deployed it, put it on several laptops of (15:04) companies external to the Iran nuclear facility where those technicians would take their laptops (15:10) or USB sticks and then go to the facility to do work. (15:14) That’s how they infected the nuclear facility. (15:18) Then it was infected, part two, it was infected on a PLC, which is a little tiny computer (15:25) that connects to motors and engines and tells them when to turn on, when to turn off, how (15:31) quickly to run and a bunch of other things along that line.(15:36) So what the point of the virus was to infect a little tiny machine that controls big machines. (15:44) Is that all accurate what I said? (15:46) Yeah. (15:46) Okay.(15:48) The whole gist. (15:49) I just wanted to make that clear because it’s, I think that’s incredibly important that the (15:53) people that designed the virus, they weren’t attacking, uh, you know, an Apple desktop. (15:59) Yeah.(15:59) And we’ll talk about that next because I want to talk about the balloon experiment. (16:02) Yes. (16:03) They were purposely trying to infect a certain piece of hardware.(16:06) Correct. (16:06) Which I found fascinating. (16:08) Yeah.(16:08) Well, that was the thing about this. (16:10) They, they were so specific in its attack. (16:12) Yes.(16:12) That’s what they found. (16:13) They found the Siemens and then some other guy, they had an email. (16:16) Some guy jumped into volunteer.(16:17) He goes, oh, there’s model numbers attached to everything. (16:19) And then they saw the model numbers. (16:21) Oh, those are these model numbers.(16:22) The Siemens 9,500, the Siemens 7,500. (16:25) And for those that don’t know, Siemens is S I E M E N S is a manufacturing company. (16:30) They make all kinds of hardware.(16:32) I think they’re German. (16:33) I believe. (16:33) Sure.(16:34) I mean, I know that they even make phone systems, so they do all kinds. (16:37) Very high tech. (16:38) Yeah.(16:39) I mean, they do all kinds of hardware and machinery. (16:41) Global. (16:42) Production.(16:42) Yeah. (16:43) So the PLC was a primary logic controller. (16:45) I don’t remember.(16:46) I think that sounds right. (16:48) Primary logic controller. (16:49) Sure.(16:49) Basically computer talks to it to give it commands or it has a command built into it (16:55) to execute a mechanical piece to your point, a pump, a filter. (17:00) Any kind of motorized device. (17:02) Motorized device, anything.(17:03) Well, in this case, what they did was they found this, that model number and they found, (17:09) they hooked up that model number to like a little air pump and they programmed it. (17:14) Hooked up the PLC to the air pump. (17:17) A Siemens model.(17:18) I think it was a 9500H the way they talked about it. (17:21) They hooked it up. (17:22) They gave it a command to blow up for five seconds.(17:24) The balloon will blow up for five seconds and stop. (17:26) And then it was inflated. (17:28) Which that was what it was designed to do.(17:30) Yes. (17:30) That’s what it was programmed to do, designed to do. (17:32) And that was in the programming.(17:35) Yes. (17:36) Fixed. (17:37) Hardened.(17:38) So then they executed the virus in, it infected the PLC. (17:43) And the PLC, then they turned it on to run its five second blow command. (17:48) Yes.(17:48) And then what happened, bro? (17:50) It blew up way more than five seconds and then it blew up. (17:54) The balloon popped. (17:56) It just kept going.(17:57) Because the PLC had a, was tricked to ignore the original command and blow up the balloon (18:04) and run crazy and not stop. (18:07) Yeah, it just basically continuously ran. (18:08) Yes.(18:09) Till the, till the balloon exploded. (18:10) I thought that was extreme, extremely simple, interesting experiment. (18:16) Yeah, absolutely.(18:17) To show how devastating that could be. (18:19) I mean, just not even talking about the ethics or anything of it, but just something like (18:24) that existing. (18:25) Yeah.(18:26) And at a water filtration plant that we need every day or electric. (18:31) Any type of infrastructure. (18:33) Yeah.(18:33) Any utility, traffic lights. (18:35) I bet you, you could beer Google and see where PLCs used. (18:40) Because I mean, you’re talking, are they using cell phone towers? (18:43) Are they used in, you know, I don’t know, but like you said, water filtration.(18:47) So it looked like they were a lot of the PLCs or a lot of the infected areas were places (18:52) that had like facilities that had pumps and motors and things like that. (18:56) Yeah. (18:56) So radio cell towers, I think more digital electric with electric current and whatnot.(19:01) Okay. (19:01) But it could have motors. (19:03) I mean, it definitely has a server or something attached to it.(19:06) Some kind of control. (19:08) I think a PLC is just more of like a simple end unit that connects to the final product. (19:13) That’s absolutely correct.(19:14) So it seems like it’s kind of like its own piece needs to, it can run autonomously if (19:18) it has to, but can get updated or whatever. (19:21) Yeah. (19:21) So it’s pretty interesting in technology and it’s amazing.(19:24) Yes. (19:25) But imagine that affecting any, to your point, any of the infrastructure. (19:30) Around the world.(19:31) Yeah. (19:31) Around the world. (19:32) I mean the, may I go like way down the rabbit hole where my brain went on this? (19:38) No.(19:38) Oh man. (19:39) Oh poop. (19:40) Yes.(19:40) Go. (19:41) How long, how long has that been? (19:43) Bro, why is it on me man? (19:44) Because you’re going to talk. (19:46) Damn it.(19:46) What were you going to say? (19:48) I was going to say that. (19:48) Can I go down the rabbit hole? (19:49) Go. (19:49) Yes.(19:50) The rabbit hole is that. (19:51) Yeah. (19:55) Autonomous vehicles are a reality.(19:57) They’re coming. (19:58) It’s, it’s going to happen at some point. (20:00) If we don’t destroy ourselves, it’s going to come 30 years.(20:03) Maybe you talk about self-driving cars and self-driving trucks. (20:06) And I think there’s going to be a point where you’re going to have to have maybe human lanes (20:11) and autonomous lanes for a while and split them up because the interaction between the (20:15) two, because humans are less rational and computers are extremely rational. (20:21) True.(20:21) That would be very interesting in how they communicate, right? (20:24) Like, I don’t know, a computer doesn’t intend road rage. (20:27) It may cut off by accident. (20:28) It doesn’t intend to.(20:31) But it may make that decision, right? (20:33) Where that’s the best course of action of all the choices it’s given. (20:36) For example, it does that. (20:38) The lesser of all evils.(20:39) Right. (20:40) But the person that cut off could be human and be like, right. (20:43) Yeah.(20:43) Well, at some point. (20:44) My grandfather. (20:44) Let’s go down the road.(20:45) Every, all cars are autonomous. (20:48) All of them. (20:49) Oh yeah.(20:49) We’ve had this conversation. (20:50) You’ll have a special, you’ll have a special circumstance where you could have an antique (20:54) car, like a classic car or something that, you know, you could write, have a certificate. (20:58) A 68 Camaro.(20:59) Yeah. (21:00) Yeah. (21:00) You can add that as a special thing.(21:01) Or a 2016 Subaru. (21:02) Exactly. (21:05) A classic.(21:06) The 2016 Subaru Impreza. (21:08) Instant classic. (21:10) Monifique.(21:12) Magnifique. (21:13) Magnifique. (21:13) Oh shit.(21:14) Magnifique. (21:15) The Subaru Impreza. (21:17) 2016.(21:18) What a good year. (21:18) I know. (21:19) What an excellent year that was.(21:20) I know. (21:21) Nice bouquet. (21:22) So here’s a PLC, whatever just infects that system.(21:28) Speeds everybody up to 90 miles an hour and then instantaneously turns 90 degrees left. (21:33) Boom. (21:34) Or, you know, each lane into each other, basically through some logic system.(21:39) That would be not a great time in my opinion. (21:45) It’d be really. (21:46) That would be murder, death, kill.(21:48) Yeah, murder, death, kill. (21:49) That would not be good. (21:50) Right.(21:50) Especially if they’re all in the same network, of course, in some way. (21:52) But at some point, maybe you could just sit dormant and infect everything. (21:55) And then when it affects a certain percentage of the vehicles, that’s when they do it.(21:59) Because that’ll still have carnage for the remaining. (22:01) Yeah, even if you’re, if 52 percent, if half the cars. (22:06) Motherfucker.(22:07) 52 percent. (22:08) 52 percent, bro. (22:10) What if 53 percent? (22:13) 52.6 percent.(22:14) Okay. (22:14) I was just checking how specific. (22:16) You would still have road issues of total craziness.(22:20) So that was one I always just jumped to. (22:23) Because I feel like autonomous at some point seems like it’ll be more of a reality than (22:28) science fiction. (22:29) Oh, yeah.(22:29) Would you agree? (22:30) Oh, absolutely. (22:30) Because it is ultimately safer if we’re all autonomous and they all kind of run at the same (22:35) speed, distance from each other and whatever. (22:37) And they make all the commands with each other because they’re all logic systems.(22:40) Oh, like if they’re all intertwined, networked together. (22:43) And I think that’s the ultimate goal to be for safety’s sake, that would make a lot of sense. (22:49) Now, for privacy’s sake, that’s a whole other conversation.(22:51) But for safety, we’re just talking about the functionality of it. (22:54) Yeah, I understand. (22:55) A whole different conversation.(22:56) Not going down that route. (22:57) Yeah. (22:57) But I was just thinking about that.(22:58) What are your thoughts about the cause for concern about something like that? (23:03) Well, I think you’re regarding the AI portion or regarding the privacy portion or regarding (23:09) the virus portion. (23:10) The virus infecting cars. (23:12) Yeah, well, obviously.(23:13) To have them smash into each other. (23:15) Because they made a very good point on the documentary that you’re always going to have (23:22) software updates. (23:23) You’re always going to have firmware changes.(23:25) You’re going to have upgrades. (23:28) And I mean, that’s a big part of my job and it’s a necessary evil. (23:32) We get it.(23:33) There’s always new vulnerabilities and we always have to address those because that’s (23:37) the right thing to do. (23:38) So if those systems can be kept up to date and you try to eliminate the possibility of (23:52) everyone going to 90 and making a left. (23:54) If you try to eliminate the possibility of that malware being executed or even being (23:59) loaded because those vehicles, are they going to get their software via Wi-Fi? (24:05) Are they going to get their software via, okay, every night when they come into their (24:08) whatever, they’re going to get plugged into power and they’re going to get plugged into (24:11) the internet, right? (24:12) I mean, or some sort of network.(24:15) I’m kind of a futurist and I’m going to guess that at some point we’re going, I’m (24:20) just talking about at its most. (24:22) Advanced. (24:23) Advanced stages of autonomy.(24:25) They’re going to talk to each other, share their own speed, directional data to each (24:31) other, like. (24:32) We’re already doing that with Waze, right? (24:34) Like Bluetooth, like within our proximity, but automatically to each other while they’re (24:38) driving next to each other. (24:39) They’re going to have GPS to look down the freeway.(24:41) You’re going 62. (24:42) Yeah, I need to do something. (24:44) Right, whatever.(24:45) I just feel like there’s going to be a lot, a high end of bandwidth communication between (24:50) vehicles operating in the same area. (24:53) Yeah, and that’s Wi-Fi. (24:55) For the autonomous sake and for the safety sake and all that.(24:57) I feel like that’s how you’d spread it. (24:59) It just uses need to get into one and then it just goes into all the other ones as they (25:03) talk to each other. (25:05) I understand your point.(25:06) A whole pack of them get infected, 30, 40. (25:08) Yeah. (25:09) Boom.(25:10) Or if, because I know it’s a concern if you don’t keep your software up to date, you’re (25:15) more vulnerable. (25:16) Like the Tesla has updates. (25:17) I’m sure they do because, I mean, just look at your iPhone or your Samsung.(25:20) There’s new apps updated daily and there’s new iOS updated quarterly, something to that (25:27) effect. (25:27) And what’s great is you could have an antivirus update on the software and in that software (25:32) is a virus that’s not detected by the antivirus. (25:35) That’s entirely possible.(25:36) And that’s basically probably how that would be carried over. (25:39) I mean, Hey, we’re updating the antivirus software and that piggybacks because it hasn’t (25:45) detected that yet. (25:46) Cause the only antivirus software only knows what it knows.(25:49) Well, yeah, it’s good for certain people developing, right? (25:51) And it looks for certain triggers or certain marks, right? (25:54) Yeah. (25:55) In addition to stuff it knows about. (25:57) Well, it doesn’t always know everything.(25:58) And it didn’t know about this thing until they knew about it, until they dissect it. (26:02) Yes. (26:02) But this thing is so interesting in how it worked.(26:04) Yes. (26:05) So in this case, it affected the Siemens 9500H, 7500H machines or whatever. (26:11) The PLCs.(26:11) Those are connected. (26:13) Yes. (26:13) To centrifuges.(26:18) Correct, sir. (26:18) Correct. (26:19) Yes.(26:19) And that was to centrifuge out uranium, correct? (26:24) Or to enrich uranium? (26:25) Correct. (26:26) To refine and enrich uranium. (26:28) Correct.(26:28) And I kept seeing them play with that stuff. (26:30) I always heard that term yellow cake uranium. (26:33) That’s refined, right? (26:35) Yeah.(26:36) Well, they were scooping that stuff in the plastic bin. (26:38) Yeah. (26:38) Look, that’s what I guess that must have been.(26:40) I assume so, yes. (26:42) So anyway. (26:43) I mean, don’t get me wrong.(26:44) I got a little confused with how they make the U-36 versus… (26:51) They didn’t get enough into it for me. (26:53) I love the geeky stuff. (26:55) I really want to get in nuts and bolts on how they did it.(26:58) Not, obviously, so I can make one in my basement. (27:01) But… (27:02) You don’t have a basement. (27:04) Oh, yeah.(27:04) That’s true, too. (27:05) We’re in Arizona. (27:06) Barely.(27:06) Yeah. (27:07) Step one, get a basement. (27:09) Step two, take over the world.(27:09) How to build a nuclear weapon. (27:11) Get a basement. (27:12) Oh, shit.(27:13) I can’t do it. (27:14) Damn it. (27:14) I’m out.(27:15) I’m out. (27:15) I’m already out. (27:16) Step one.(27:16) I can’t even get to step one. (27:18) How’s your Lego project going? (27:19) Amazing. (27:20) How far are we on the Millennium Falcon? (27:23) I’m on 25 hours plus.(27:25) I’m on step 825 of 1315. (27:30) Is there an estimated time that they’ve given you what it would normally take the human being? (27:34) Like, hey, some people at this pace would take, like, there’s a clock in their corner? (27:39) I did not beer-google that at all. (27:41) I just did it my own way.(27:41) I’m just saying if it was on the instructions. (27:43) No. (27:43) Oh, no, I didn’t.(27:43) Someone at the stopwatch is like, hey, 18 hours in, you’re probably in this range. (27:47) No, I didn’t. (27:48) I didn’t see that, and I didn’t look for that.(27:51) Yeah. (27:51) I just… (27:52) You’re following the steps. (27:52) I went to page one, and it said, take out this pack.(27:55) Beautiful. (27:56) And then I cut the pack, and then I started piecing everything together. (27:59) Did it say get a basement to start? (28:01) It did not, because this is not a nuclear Lego.(28:03) It’s not a nuclear Lego. (28:05) Okay, not a nuclear Falcon. (28:06) It has a hyperdrive.(28:08) So I have two very important things speaking of this. (28:10) Yes. (28:12) One, speaking of Lego, the NSA person, and let’s be clear, the person was an actor.(28:19) It was a woman who was an actor, and they said it was many people whose… (28:24) Yeah. (28:24) Many people’s statements, correct? (28:25) Yeah. (28:25) So one of the people in the NSA, full of shit, man.(28:29) Why do you say that? (28:31) Bro, did you not pay attention? (28:33) No, I did not. (28:36) So in this documentary, the woman talks about… (28:39) The paid actor. (28:41) The paid actor woman.(28:42) Speaking on behalf of the statements of the NSA. (28:45) About these nerd holes that are in her, quote unquote, her cubicles. (28:49) Stay with her.(28:50) Her offices. (28:51) Yeah. (28:51) Because we don’t… (28:52) Because it’s multiple people, so it’s her in this case.(28:54) Yeah. (28:54) But her is they. (28:56) Their offices.(28:57) One had a yellow cape, hooded cape. (28:59) Yeah. (29:00) And did what? (29:01) He built the Death Star.(29:02) Yeah, but out of how many? (29:04) Out of Legos. (29:05) The motherfucker said Legos. (29:08) That is right.(29:10) I paid clear attention to this, sir. (29:12) I was hoping you’d catch it, but she even says, right? (29:17) She says, oh, he even made all these out of gray Legos. (29:21) He made the Death Star out of all these gray Legos.(29:23) And I’m like, instant debunked. (29:26) The entire story is bunk, my friend. (29:28) Bunk.(29:29) Well, if you look at that, because I saw, you know, I heard her say, (29:33) and then I saw the Death Star. (29:34) That’s not… (29:36) That’s just what you can buy out of the package. (29:37) I know, but that was just a documentary.(29:38) It’s not like he made it from… (29:40) Right. (29:40) We don’t know. (29:42) You’re correct.(29:43) We ultimately don’t know. (29:43) But they showed the Death Star… (29:45) Correct. (29:45) …on someone’s cubicle.(29:46) In the dramatization… (29:48) In the dramatization. (29:49) …of the documentary, it was the first Death Star that was open (29:52) with the characters. (29:53) Yeah, that’s… (29:54) Not the one that was closed.(29:55) Isn’t there a bigger one that’s closed later or something? (29:56) I don’t think there’s a closed one. (29:57) Okay. (29:58) Because that one, I would be interested.(29:59) I don’t like the open one. (30:00) Yeah, I don’t like the open one either because it looks junky. (30:02) It’s not to scale.(30:04) It’s dumb looking. (30:05) Yeah, it’s not to scale. (30:06) I mean, I do like the trash compactor and, you know, there’s some cool stuff.(30:11) But yeah, just like that. (30:13) Anyway, it’s a dramatization. (30:15) I believe they used that, the one that you’re talking about, like the kit.(30:19) But the way this person talked about it, it could have been the kit. (30:21) But we don’t know. (30:23) But this person’s just like, gray Legos.(30:25) And I’m like… (30:27) Bunk. (30:27) Lady, you are bunked. (30:30) It is Lego.(30:31) Okay, that is point one. (30:33) I’m gonna go further because I think point… (30:36) I like throwing levity throughout. (30:38) So let’s pause on that.(30:39) Let’s get back to some heaviness about this. (30:41) What was the second bunking? (30:42) That’s what I’ll talk about later. (30:44) I thought you were gonna go one, two.(30:46) So they’re gonna go through and they interview a gentleman who used to be (30:50) the International Atomic Energy Association or whatever association. (30:55) The global organization that monitors every single nuclear facility. (31:01) Yes.(31:01) Russia, US, UK, all that shit. (31:04) Yes. (31:04) So that’s Olly Heinonen and his haircut was glorious.(31:09) He’d very much like a haircut like this and the Boris Johnson guy. (31:13) Do you remember his haircut? (31:14) Because he had like the Finnish accent. (31:17) You know what I’m talking about? (31:18) The guy with the really… (31:20) The older guy, grayish hair, really moppy hair.(31:23) How did I forget that? (31:24) Oh my gosh, bro. (31:25) I didn’t even drink when I was watching it. (31:27) Are you sure? (31:28) Yeah, no.(31:29) I was like, I gotta stay sober to watch this shit. (31:30) Olly Heinonen, my friend. (31:31) Heinonen, bless you.(31:32) The guy with the really bad haircut. (31:34) Anyway, he talked about how he had visited the facility a couple of times. (31:37) Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.(31:38) Okay, okay, now I got it. (31:39) Like when they initially opened the Iranian radiation nuclear facility, (31:44) they initially said it was going to be a irrigation, desert irrigation system. (31:48) Okay, yeah, we buy that.(31:51) And then anyway, so they talk about him and what’s the… (31:55) I’ll go to the levity right now. (31:56) What did that make you think of? (31:58) Did it make you think of anything when that guy started talking? (32:05) No, maybe a little The Sweetest Chef. (32:07) Okay.(32:07) Oh, that’s very good. (32:09) It made me go right to fucking Team America, where he’s like, (32:13) Why are you busting my balls, Hans Blix? (32:15) Oh, shit. (32:16) Because Hans Blix was actually in the IAE whatever.(32:21) Oh, I didn’t know that. (32:24) IAEA, the International Atomic Energy Agency. (32:29) Okay.(32:30) IAEA. (32:31) Why are you busting my balls, Hans Blix? (32:33) Remember because they fed them to the goldfish, which were the sharks? (32:36) Yes. (32:36) Or the catfish.(32:37) They were catfish, weren’t they? (32:38) I think they tore them apart. (32:39) I got you. (32:40) Why are you busting my balls, Hans Blix? (32:42) This is unacceptable.(32:44) We can’t have this. (32:46) Oh, come on, Hans. (32:49) Can’t we be friends? (32:50) That was fucking hilarious because it was North Korea and the nuclear thing.(32:55) But the second I saw this old guy, I’m like, Hans Blix. (32:59) I don’t know why. (33:00) So that was funny.(33:01) So Lego and Hans Blix. (33:03) Those are my two funny parts. (33:04) I guess they weren’t that funny.(33:06) If I laugh at myself hard enough, like I do at my other jokes, will it be funny? (33:10) Yes. (33:12) I’ll have to remember that. (33:15) Um, next on here, what do we have? (33:19) They find the earlier versions we were talking about.(33:22) Yes. (33:23) The earlier versions were a lot more subtle. (33:26) Yes.(33:26) I have a question for you. (33:28) The way, did they imply that the 1.1, the other versions had already started working (33:36) and then 1.1 worked too, like it was too strong or it, none of it worked until this 1.1 version (33:46) was launched? (33:46) I don’t know. (33:47) I didn’t understand that part about what the difference was in the versions previous to (33:51) 1.1. (33:52) I didn’t, I didn’t understand the purpose of the previous versions.(33:56) Well, this is what it was. (33:57) The, the previous versions seem to be more subtle. (33:59) So like you had to hit enter or something or double click to like spread it, for example.(34:05) Manual intervention. (34:06) Right. (34:07) But when they were firing the Iranian scientists, was it one of the earlier softer versions (34:12) where they just had no fucking clue what was going on? (34:15) No.(34:15) Shit was blowing up. (34:16) No, that’s, that was 1.1 because, okay, let’s back up a second. (34:21) There were two, I think there was, there was there two centrifuges that blew up, right? (34:26) Was multiple times.(34:28) There were whole sections removed at one point. (34:30) So they don’t know how many were blown up. (34:31) Okay.(34:32) It was a very- (34:33) Two incidences then? (34:34) The Natanz incident is the one that the woman, the NSA person talked to. (34:40) Natanz is the, is the nuclear facility site that we’re talking about. (34:43) And that’s the one that they hit.(34:44) Yeah. (34:45) Now I don’t know, but it happened multiple times. (34:50) Okay.(34:50) They got, okay. (34:51) To your point, let’s stay on target. (34:53) I am.(34:54) Good job. (34:55) The two Iranian scientists that got fired, got fired because they could not determine (35:02) why the centrifuges were blowing up. (35:04) Correct.(35:04) My question is, was that one of the earlier versions of Stuxnet? (35:09) Because the, the later version, they realized it. (35:13) What exposed them is that computers started crashing. (35:15) Remember she started saying things started breaking and that’s how it was exposed.(35:20) That’s how it got sent to the other guy. (35:21) No, things started breaking. (35:22) Bro.(35:23) Dude, because the Israelis changed the code. (35:26) Right. (35:27) To the version 1. (35:28) That’s the version 1.1. (35:29) Okay.(35:30) 1.1 is not, I don’t think is the American version is my point. (35:33) I don’t know. (35:33) Cause I think that’s what they’re implying.(35:35) I think they’re implying that 1.1 is the, is the aggressive Israeli version. (35:42) Okay. (35:42) So my question is that, okay, so was it an NSA one that was initially working well and (35:48) they couldn’t figure out what the fuck was going on or was it until this aggressive version that (35:53) was done by allegedly the Israelis? (35:58) Was that the one that actually ultimately made it work? (36:02) I don’t know.(36:02) Well, we know that the one that was edited by the Israelis or so everybody that, that (36:09) was interviewed, stated. (36:11) Allegedly for sure. (36:12) They advised that the Israeli edited version, Suxnet is the name of the virus for everybody.(36:19) So to explain that. (36:21) And we’ll put that in the notes. (36:22) Sure.(36:22) Stuxnet. (36:24) The Israeli version was too aggressive in the fact that it got out from, it wasn’t just (36:30) PLCs, it was other systems and those systems were shutting down. (36:34) That’s what raised the red flag.(36:36) Correct. (36:36) And it was as aggressive. (36:38) So I’m wondering, but was that the one that caused the Iranian incidents that they couldn’t (36:44) discover and kept firing people? (36:46) Or was it a more subtle version? (36:48) That’s, I, that’s really the question.(36:50) I don’t know. (36:50) The question is this, was it working the whole time? (36:54) And then Israel’s like, it’s not, I want it to be more. (36:57) Yes.(36:57) I understand. (36:58) And they got greedy. (36:59) I don’t know.(36:59) For example, the greed took over and they wanted more damage, right? (37:02) Yes. (37:02) And that’s what caused this. (37:04) And that’s how they got it to the five and one, where I think.(37:07) What five and one? (37:08) The, where they went, where they downloaded in the four, uh, contractors that took it (37:13) to Natanz. (37:15) That’s how it originally got infected, right? (37:17) Correct. (37:17) And that, but that’s version 1.1. (37:19) I’m, I’m one, remember they had inside people too that were spies.(37:23) We don’t, we don’t know that, but we would guess that. (37:26) There were implications of that by the NSA person. (37:28) Right.(37:28) She wasn’t going to name names or docs anyone, but there were implications that she said (37:33) air gap was never an issue. (37:35) You know what I mean? (37:36) Yes. (37:37) The version 1.1 is the one that the first five places that were infected were those (37:41) here at Natanz.(37:42) And then those other four places. (37:43) Yes. (37:44) However.(37:44) Which were the, where the contractors worked that were originally infected. (37:48) Yeah. (37:48) I’m wondering if, if, and this is something they can’t talk about because of the classified (37:52) nature of it, right? (37:54) If one of the earlier softer versions.(37:56) Yeah. (37:56) We don’t know for that. (37:57) I understand your question.(37:58) Got in. (37:59) Yeah. (37:59) And was working and shit, you know? (38:01) So that done, they discover it.(38:04) Now it’s out and it can. (38:06) Around the world. (38:07) Right.(38:07) The other thing is now Iran has a cyber security team or cyber hack team, or what would you (38:15) want to call it? (38:15) Iranian. (38:16) Cyber army. (38:17) Cyber.(38:18) Yeah. (38:18) I knew it was army, but I didn’t know what the middle one was. (38:20) Iranian cyber army.(38:21) Right. (38:22) We have an anti-cyber Israel has a cyber unit, all these places now. (38:27) We have the U S cyber command, which is in the same building as the NSA.(38:31) Yeah. (38:31) And that’s what I found really interesting. (38:34) The NSA doesn’t have the authority, but they have the ability.(38:37) Correct. (38:37) Cyber command has the ability, but not the authority or has the authority. (38:41) They work in the same building.(38:42) And they, they, they share an office. (38:44) It’s just that. (38:46) Well, then that’s convenient.(38:48) So I think we’re jumping all over the place. (38:50) So let’s go back for a second here. (38:52) So the two.(38:54) Geniuses at Symantec, which is an antivirus software company, analyze the, analyze this (39:00) virus and crap. (39:05) What was my fricking train of thought? (39:09) Poop. (39:09) There’s poop everywhere.(39:10) They analyze it and they found things. (39:13) They analyze. (39:13) Yes.(39:13) Okay. (39:14) Thank you. (39:14) They analyzed it to the point where it, we mentioned how good the virus was and there (39:20) was no mistakes.(39:21) There was no breadcrumbs. (39:22) There was no hints as to what did this. (39:24) And over many months, they determined that the, the fact that it was so perfect and no (39:33) one had taken responsibility for the infection of the Iranian nuclear plant and, or any of (39:41) the other computers, devices, et cetera, around the world.(39:45) They believe that a nation state quote unquote was to blame for the development of this malware (39:53) and the deployment of it, which led them to believe that it was the U S government in (40:01) conjunction with the Israeli government, right? (40:04) The nation state. (40:05) So there were, the person stated there were three reasons or three people who are interested (40:12) in hacking. (40:14) One was for some kind of profit.(40:17) Second one was someone who had an agenda like a, you know, a political act like an (40:22) activist. (40:23) Yes. (40:23) And then the third one was a nation state who’s trying to do something like that.(40:27) And in this case, it started, all signs were pointing toward the ancient state because (40:30) the cleanliness, the effectiveness of how complex it was and where, and where it infected. (40:37) Let’s not kid ourselves. (40:38) Iran nuclear facility.(40:40) That’s trying to make enriched uranium so that it’s possible that Iran could have a (40:46) nuclear weapon or nuclear weapons. (40:48) And it targets the PLCs that that thing uses and those centrifuges that they also tested. (40:54) Yes.(40:54) All those things. (40:55) Right. (40:55) So that was an interesting thing too, right? (40:57) How they got the centrifuges to do what they did.(40:59) Yes. (41:00) So this is, it affected the PLCs. (41:03) PLCs affected these centrifuges, sped them up, slowed them down.(41:06) Yes. (41:06) Changed these things, these parameters. (41:09) They tested them.(41:10) I don’t know. (41:11) How did they get these once they tested like George W. (41:14) Bush is standing by the shipment of centrifuges. (41:18) Yeah.(41:19) I forgot how they got them, but anyway, they got them and they use them, test them. (41:22) And that’s how they came up with this, this software to do this thing to damage the centrifuges. (41:27) So there was, there was Iranian news footage of their nuclear facility, like pictures (41:36) of the centrifuges and you could determine the model of it.(41:39) Right. (41:39) Right. (41:39) So there you go.(41:40) There’s your, you don’t even need, you don’t need a CIA guy to walk into the facility and (41:46) realize what it is. (41:47) No, no. (41:47) It wasn’t that.(41:47) It was how we got them to test, like what those were about the way the NSA was person (41:55) was talking. (41:56) And she’s like, yeah, we got some shipment of those exact models from some country. (42:02) And it’s like, why did we need them? (42:04) You know, in a weird way, like why would we order them in? (42:06) Cause it seems odd because it was an Iranian company.(42:10) I think it was like, why would I have no idea what you’re talking about? (42:12) Okay. (42:13) Well, I’ll move forward. (42:15) Cause well, you want us some lasses here, sir? (42:18) Uh, I’m concerned.(42:20) Oh, okay. (42:21) Thank you. (42:21) I’m not concerned.(42:22) I love you, man. (42:24) Um, so we’re continuing. (42:28) They find this code.(42:29) It affects these specific things. (42:32) Now we go forward. (42:36) It’s discovered cause the, cause this thing is so aggressive.(42:40) These cement, it comes across shutting down other systems besides PLCs. (42:44) Yeah. (42:44) It’s fucking up.(42:45) It’s, it’s outside the box. (42:47) Yes. (42:48) And now it’s alerted a counter cyber company, but they’re pointing the finger at the United (42:56) States.(42:56) Yes. (42:57) The NSA person clearly stated in their accounts that it was them. (43:02) Yes.(43:03) Right. (43:03) That Stuxnet was them. (43:05) The name of the virus.(43:06) And that Israel changed it. (43:08) I’m not saying that that’s true or not. (43:09) That’s what that person said.(43:10) That’s what the documentary state. (43:12) Yes. (43:12) It stated that Stuxnet was created by the national security agency.(43:19) NSA? (43:20) US cyber command. (43:21) NSA. (43:21) NSA.(43:22) Created it, which is national security agency, I think. (43:24) Yes, correct. (43:25) Yeah.(43:25) Yeah. (43:25) You’re right. (43:26) And then, and then gave it to 8200, which is Israel and Mossad, which are the Israel.(43:32) That’s the cyber command of Israel. (43:35) 8200 something. (43:36) Yes.(43:36) And then this claim is that they made this aggressive version that got discovered. (43:43) Correct. (43:43) And if it wasn’t for, in a weird way, it’s almost like it wasn’t for their aggressiveness.(43:48) Maybe we wouldn’t have even gotten discovered. (43:49) Correct. (43:50) However, they did imply that Obama was like, it’ll get found at some point, which of course (43:55) it will.(43:56) Everything always does. (43:58) Yeah. (43:58) That’s the point.(43:59) Everything always does. (43:59) What’s interesting, it did go into two presidents. (44:02) Yeah.(44:02) Bush Jr. (44:03) Touched on the Trump barely. (44:05) Nah, didn’t get there. (44:06) We, yeah, well the, I think this was released when, during the election year.(44:11) I think it was released that year. (44:12) But I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s still. (44:14) I mean, it showed Reagan with the signing the nuclear armistice and stuff, but generally (44:18) it was just, it was Bush Jr. (44:21) And Obama, Obama’s administration.(44:24) Yeah, it was the, the virus was developed in, during W’s terms and then executed during (44:33) Obama’s term. (44:35) And then I found the thing I shared it with you because it’s, it is just, I’ll just gloss (44:40) over it, but the thing on Obama’s website about protecting whistleblowers that need (44:47) to be protected, blah, blah, blah. (44:48) And then they get discovered Snowden leaks about them.(44:52) Right. (44:52) Yeah. (44:52) And all of a sudden they, that will not be tolerated.(44:57) Leaks, you know, just calling it a leak doesn’t mean it’s not whistleblowing. (45:01) Well, and they also tried to prosecute a four star Marine Corps general. (45:06) And I was like that, I mean.(45:08) Yeah, it’s a way to, way to. (45:10) Uh, okay. (45:11) I think that’s weird, but okay.(45:12) Yeah. (45:13) Those kinds of things concern me. (45:15) Like they were trying to pin it on him.(45:16) Like he was this, he was a scapegoat. (45:18) Yeah. (45:18) Well, they said he was the one who leaked it to the other, to the David Sanger guy.(45:21) The news reporter. (45:24) Okay. (45:24) Because they said he was the leak.(45:26) Yeah. (45:26) That David Sanger was really interesting. (45:28) He was.(45:28) I, yeah, absolutely. (45:30) Who he reminded me of? (45:31) Uh, the Swedish chef. (45:32) He reminded me of, no, that was Ollie Heinen.(45:35) And that was. (45:37) Hans Briggs. (45:38) Um, no, uh, he reminded me of Steve Forbes a little bit.(45:41) Okay. (45:42) The reporter. (45:42) Yeah.(45:43) A little, had a little Forbesian in him. (45:44) I can see that. (45:45) Yeah.(45:45) Just a little, kind of like, you know. (45:46) Yeah. (45:47) Traditional white dude.(45:48) Based to white guy. (45:49) Yeah. (45:49) But he was incredibly intelligent.Yes, and he had contacts all over the world (45:54) And it was like a investigative journalism. That was very very impressive (45:58) Yeah (45:58) and that’s what’s great about these documentaries that give me seems to put together they have a lot of (46:03) They seem to have a lot of teeth and a lot of credibility to them (46:06) Yeah, so it adds obviously it adds to the story of like is it are these things happening? Is this true? (46:12) so the concern now is we attacked well, the the allegation is that we in Israel attacked a (46:19) another a foreign entity (46:22) About you know and sabotage them. Is that an act of war? (46:29) Yes (46:30) Mark is that an act of war? It’s an act of aggression (46:39) War well if it hurts anyone if it blows up a (46:44) nuclear (46:46) Such a fine line, right? I mean if you’re just infecting someone’s iPhone, that’s one thing (46:50) But if you’re infecting the nuclear production of a country (46:55) That could kill if that plant blew up (46:59) That that would be super bad.That’s not I that’s really really bad. So I think I think it is an act of war (47:06) Because the consequences could have been (47:10) Historic and well, they’re gonna be that’s the concern right because well if it did blow up, you know, I’m saying well (47:15) I’m saying it’s the reason it’s historic is because the finger pointing still at us (47:19) Even though we haven’t acknowledged the u.s. Has not acknowledged. No one has a single act.No one has no one has however (47:25) The allegations are very strong pointing in the NSA person said they did it it’s pointing in our direction and Israel’s direction (47:32) Correct. That’s the those are the allegations globally (47:36) That’s what they think regardless of what the truth is Iran believes regardless of what the truth is (47:41) Yeah, and they always will believe it’s us against them kind of thing. Yes.Yes (47:45) They create the counterterrorism that’s cyber now, they’re gonna attack that’s the cyber army and there are two that yeah (47:51) they’re raining a cyber army, they shut down a bank and they Wells Fargo Bank of America and (47:56) The third one. Yeah, another one wasn’t chase. It was no it wasn’t a really really big one like Bank of America (48:01) I was both in Wells, but anyway, and then it also did some power plant or something or shut down a power grid.I (48:09) Think there were two attacks. Yes (48:12) regardless (48:13) We we’ve now declared war on a sovereign nation from a cyber (48:19) Perspective not right with weapons of traditional means, right? (48:23) Because there’s no laws really in place about correct whether that is an act of aggression when the Air Force started (48:28) What was airspace you had to say? Well, we didn’t over our country. That’s our right (48:34) But there was that was a new term as a new term because when you flew overhead, you’re like, well, I’m not on your ground (48:39) I’m not in your land.Yeah, it’s not yours. That’s not yours. Yeah, so they had to define these things correct parameters (48:45) So I find that really interesting.Like what direction do we go there? So two questions active war? (48:54) Are so yes or no, dude (48:57) It is an act of war. It can’t it it damaged something and could have potential or something if someone was there (49:03) We don’t know. We don’t know how (49:05) damaging the effects were (49:08) Correct, so we don’t know if someone was killed or if those scientists were killed for their (49:14) Disobedient for blowing it up in the first place and it wasn’t their fault.Correct, right? (49:18) They’ve assessed how many people were assassinated. They talked about several. Yes handful of people like somebody but standing behind (49:24) The guy looking at the computer.Yeah behind the Prime Minister of Iran. Yes. It just seems weird (49:30) I mean and I get it.That’s kind of their mo (49:33) It’s like a gang kind of thing gang mentality gangsta eat true, but (49:38) Yeah, if any harm was done anything, but it did already have personal or property damage. So yeah, but what okay, hang on (49:45) so what if this (49:46) malware infected a (49:49) Shoe production facility. Is that an act of war? Well, I think it’s an act of war because it infected a (49:57) nuclear (49:58) production (50:00) Line that’s (50:01) Does it get more danger? I mean chemical and biological warfare (50:05) Nuclear does it get any more dangerous than that? Right that that’s my point of why I think it’s an act of war, right? (50:12) Because it’s nuclear right your active war if it programmed all the smartphones to have far noise ringtones (50:18) See so that I support that right like that would be that would be amazing like hey from the USA Iran (50:28) You (50:28) Want to be fun you hear something funny when echo Lima was in the Air Force you want to hear something when echo Lima was in (50:34) the Air Force (50:35) he was the phone guy in Panama the country and (50:39) He programmed about the Van Halen talk not Panama City, Florida.Oh, but Panama (50:45) He programmed all the phones ringtone to be Panama from Van Halen (50:50) That’s beautiful. I love that shit. I love that one right to that too.That’s (50:54) Yeah, so yeah, if you if the United States government and Israel (50:59) Approved all the Iranian smartphones to have dogs barking jingle bells (51:04) Yes, you know constantly when someone calls or attacks (51:09) Okay (51:10) It’s not an act of war, but it is like you violated their system regardless of what the actual like outcome (51:16) It’s still a crime right, but is it’s not an act of war if you change the ringtone, right? (51:22) That’s let’s not be stupid. But the implication is if you can do that, you can do more nefarious things. So correct is the just the (51:30) Acknowledgement of the ability to do something like that even that simple (51:35) Already dangerous enough to say why I can do a lot more.I’m just being very kind to you (51:40) Yes, that like an act of some sort in its own way. Do you see what I’m saying? (51:45) I absolutely do and I agree (51:46) It’s it is the it’s showing the infected that there that there might a nation-state or a hacker has the ability to do (51:54) Something of that nature. Yeah, I absolutely think so.They’re peacocking. Yeah, but it still is dangerous (52:01) So is that an act of war if it’s still dangerous because it is really ultimately dangerous though (52:05) Well, I think it has something to do with the outcome in what systems were targeted (52:12) Like I said, if it’s a shoe if they’re making sketchers (52:16) It’s a really dude. I (52:18) Don’t think that’s that big of a deal, right? I I agree with that 100% the other point of that too is (52:30) Words words words (52:32) Other other words.Oh, I had it too. Do we have brain farts tonight? Oh, I know. Why are we brain farting so much? (52:39) I don’t know.I’m I’m over in gas and you’re I’m breaking. Yeah, I got brain gas. I got brain gas, but (52:45) Well, the other side of this is the nuclear side (52:49) now (52:49) What are your thoughts about the nuclear side? Do we as a sovereign nation? (52:57) that promote freedom and (53:00) Rights and individual rights and states rights and all these other things, right? We were the beacon of freedom, right? (53:08) Yeah (53:09) How can we dictate what another sovereign nation wants to do? (53:14) I don’t think we should (53:16) right (53:18) So in the nuclear sense, yeah, this has nothing to do with cyber security or right? (53:23) This is a more general to get into an ethical question about I understand because I I knew this would expand to this (53:28) Just one after I watched it because I want I’m really interested in your thoughts on just the general idea of these things (53:34) Once again, we’re not taking aside.We’re asking these questions because this interests me is like you what are your thoughts on? (53:43) Our (53:46) Dictating the sovereign nation dictate a sovereign nation of its own (53:51) What gives us the right to call them evil? Yeah. I yeah (53:57) Look yes the atrocities they did but remember (54:00) Iraq was our ally when when right until hundreds of thousands of his own people. Yeah, and you know, like let’s not kid ourselves (54:06) We’ve supported some horrible people.Yeah, and you know what? I don’t think it’s easy. I don’t think our jobs easy either (54:11) like we make mistakes we we have to of course and generally when we make a mistake, yeah, and the size of America is when (54:17) We make a mistake (54:19) But let’s put the shoe in the other foot. Yeah, let’s say (54:23) America wanted to develop some new technology that possibly could be detrimental.Let’s say (54:31) Lithuania says no America. You can’t do that. That’s not a (54:36) like if (54:39) Somebody acted towards us the way we’ve acted towards other people (54:43) What how would the United States reaction be? Yeah, that’s I don’t think we ever think about that, right? (54:49) And if and if they did to us what we did to them (54:53) We call it and we would absolutely call an act of war and there would be retaliation (54:58) Just like I ran retaliated on Bank of America and Wells Fargo.It’d be the same (55:03) So I don’t and that’s why they went into the private sector. I think they were smart. Oh, yeah a hack (55:07) To not hack the government.I mean, I think let’s be honest. I think that was a very smart move (55:12) Yeah, absolutely because you you don’t need to hack the government to do real damage in some ways not at all (55:17) You can you could like the power facilities right now power is semi-government (55:24) But sometimes like banking stuff. Yeah, you know, which is the private sector.Yeah, of course private sector (55:30) Yeah, you can do some pretty nasty things without actually attacking a government entity (55:34) Well, I mean the one gentleman said what happens if you shut down the Internet if that’s even possible (55:41) Yeah, or it’s possible. Let’s say you shut down (55:45) 5% of the Internet would that have a repercussion where it would just snowball and other (55:51) Parts of the Internet would go down as well. And that would be okay.Now we’re at 48% where it’s down (55:55) The gentleman’s point was that would affect (55:59) Everything your ability to use an ATM your ability to get gas your ability to use your Wi-Fi speaker at home to play music (56:07) Because there’s no connection to the Internet, right? (56:09) So the effect of that and how dependent upon the Internet the Western world is is borderline scary (56:17) Yeah communication in general. Oh, yeah phone text. Well, yeah.Oh, yeah. Yeah, of course, and it’s all wireless now (56:24) Yes, even though the switches might be computerized even on hardwires, but we don’t really have hard lines really (56:29) We don’t really run them anymore. They’re not connected or they’re not activated (56:33) Right, I mean for the most part.Yeah, I mean, yeah (56:36) You don’t have our all of our computers are connected to all of our computers are connected to a wireless router or a cable (56:42) Wireless cable modem or something to that effect, right? Yeah, exactly. So this is the other thing then so the nuclear part aside (56:51) Well (56:55) We obviously have nuclear capability we’re the first ones to actually use I think first and only yeah, there’s been only two bombs, bro and (57:03) But multiple countries have tested. Yes six countries.I think I believe that’s correct. If I may let’s run it down u.s (57:10) UK UK Russia (57:12) Germany Germany France Israel (57:15) Pakistan (57:16) Possibly, I don’t know Israel has it. I wonder if they make it though.I don’t think they have nuclear (57:21) Do they make nuclear stuff? I don’t think they have space (57:25) Anyway, but like only a handful like maybe less than ten I think countries have nuclear capability (57:31) Yeah, it’s I think it’s six. How are they governing these other bodies? It’s like I have it like it’s my ball. Yeah (57:39) and (57:40) But but it’s a fine line like a what gives them the right this these are the two sides of the argument, right? (57:46) What gives them the fucking right to tell this country what they can and cannot do? (57:51) What gives them the right to think to deem them judge them evil or whatever? Uh, yeah (57:55) Well, that’s the United Nations, right? (57:58) Right saying you can’t you can or you can’t do whatever and then secondly (58:02) How do we still protect ourselves from evil people who could do nefarious things with bad things and still dance the line of freedom? (58:09) Like it’s a fucking really challenging line.Yeah all the time (58:15) I mean, it’s so nuanced. Do you think that okay. This is my thought (58:20) Let me know if I’m full of shit (58:22) So let’s say I no one steps in and I ran does develop nuclear weapons five years ago (58:30) whatever do you think I (58:34) Ran would use them against Israel or another country because if they did (58:40) They’re assuring their own destruction because you know (58:45) Us or Israel or somebody else is gonna nuke them that and (58:50) That country would be removed from the face of the earth, right? Why would you be dumb enough to use a nuclear weapon? (58:59) Mutually assured destruction.Yeah, you think I ran would use them if they were allowed to have them (59:07) Depending on the person who has their finger on the their version of the football (59:11) This in the sandbox let go of my toy. Yeah. Yeah (59:16) There are some (59:18) Megalomaniacs if I can’t have it no one can (59:22) Is that that thing where some people just want to watch the world burn like I don’t know if they want to watch it (59:28) But some I’m I know there are some that enjoy watching it burn.That’s its own segment (59:33) I’m talking about some people who just are like if I can’t have it (59:35) No one can I’m destroying it because I because I’m unable to I guess my question is that (59:41) that the prime minister of (59:43) Iran who was (59:46) saying that you know, we found the virus and (59:49) These attack on the on our country by the United States and Israel and now we and then a couple years later (59:55) There was the nuclear agreement with Iran were there. They will not develop nuclear weapons (1:00:00) And when there are so many so that gentleman don’t even agree with that one either. Did I read into that one the prime minister? (1:00:06) He’s in charge, right? (1:00:07) The of Iran of Iran and his and their Iranian nuclear (1:00:13) Facility development of nuclear power nuclear weapons.Yeah, would that guy have the brainpower to realize if I use this shit? (1:00:23) My country and is gone. I’m my family’s gone. I’m gonna die.This is where it gets interesting (1:00:30) So that’s the other question of it (1:00:32) What gives these six countries the rights to tell them I don’t think but the other question United Nations to answer your question, right? (1:00:39) no, but (1:00:40) But the truth is you and I are like that’s not fair (1:00:43) You’re not just it doesn’t seem fair, even though we think they’re not great people either (1:00:47) But aren’t we don’t live with not great people and we have to because we’re all in the United States (1:00:52) I think we’re just not we’re just as not great as everybody else. We’re all human. Yes.Yeah, so (1:00:58) That’s the first part but secondly is like when you when they talk about nuclear weapons we first gave it to the Shah for example (1:01:03) Yeah. Hey, what? Thanks to Lyndon Johnson. Hey, thanks Nixon for making it fucking stronger.Hey, thanks both both sides of the fucking aisle for doing (1:01:10) Correct. Thank you (1:01:12) Everybody for fucking that one up. Yes, let’s not kid ourselves.Yes, cuz Oh Pakistan Iran should build something together (1:01:18) What a fucking great idea. Yeah, okay to bomb Iraq. Yeah, and then bombing Iraq in 81 (1:01:24) Remember they gave the initial facility in 67 was like the first.Yeah way (1:01:29) Way long ago under Johnson. Yes, correct. We started.Yes, I’m correct and then Nixon took that and carried it. Yes. Thanks (1:01:39) But we get to that (1:01:41) how is a nuclear weapon a (1:01:45) Defensive measure of your country.It’s not it’s an offensive weapon, right? (1:01:51) But it’s a it’s a mutually assured destruction portion. Oh, yeah, that’s my belief. Yes (1:01:56) Okay, so it doesn’t it doesn’t sound defensive is just because my stick is as big as your stick (1:02:02) It doesn’t sound that doesn’t sound offensive defensive sounds like I will protect my homeland from (1:02:09) Invasions, I will protect my air from from being flown over.I will threats, etc. Yeah, but not (1:02:18) Initiating a nuclear strike explosion. Yes strike (1:02:24) How is that’s not defensive it’s it’s not a defensive act you I don’t how do you justify a defensive act in that case (1:02:31) Can you enlighten me cuz no, there’s no way.Well, there’s that’s not it (1:02:34) That’s not using a nuclear weapon is offensive. Obviously, right? (1:02:38) Having them is is it neither if they’re never used is it neither offensive or defensive? Is that is that your question? (1:02:46) Well, the thing is the the claim from Iran was how how can Germany have it and or how can you in the UK? (1:02:53) Have it and you say it’s for unity defense, but we can’t use it for defending our country or defense for us (1:02:59) It’s like it’s not a defense. I never saw nuclear weapons as a defensive measure.I agree (1:03:05) It’s an every weapons. Oh, I I feel like that one is about as offensive and (1:03:12) Offensive it’s offensive (1:03:15) It’s about offensive is about it offensive and offensive as one yes, right (1:03:22) So, what are your thoughts about that portion of it? (1:03:24) Like should should anyone have like obviously I think you and I would agree that no one should have nuclear weapons (1:03:29) No, of course, we can have nuclear power. Why do we need a new power when right? (1:03:34) Well nuclear power is pretty clean for what it does (1:03:37) It’s still incredibly dangerous, right but compared to coal like the new why your stuff is much better (1:03:43) But God why I have nuclear when we can have solar and wind (1:03:46) Well, yeah, but solar wind requires batteries to store which is other drilling other (1:03:53) Right see this is the thing we talk about all these clean energies (1:03:56) The only real truly clean one would ultimately be the fusion where we create a mini star and they’re working on that (1:04:03) Great that sounds awesome.I just watched another amazing documentary called. Let there be light. Oh (1:04:08) my fucking god, there’s like four companies trying to create a mini star in on the earth a (1:04:15) Contained star that sounds terrifying.Yeah, isn’t it one liter? (1:04:19) They claim that one liter of seawater if they can get this thing hot enough to run itself like to the temperature that it (1:04:27) Fuses itself and didn’t just generates and just needs the fuel like the hydrogen (1:04:31) One liter of seawater is equivalent to 350 liters of petroleum fuel Wow. That is fucking amazing (1:04:38) Yeah, I was gonna share that one with you. Maybe we talk about that someday.But anyway (1:04:43) digression aside (1:04:44) tangent (1:04:48) That’s a file cabinet bro, I’m so sorry it’s beautiful I did not mean it wasn’t thunder from outside (1:04:53) Do it again. It’s like hey, tell me if it’s thundering (1:04:57) Oh my gosh, it’s scary. I’m scared sir.Yeah, I’m scared (1:05:01) So final thoughts on like the defense or so. It’s not it doesn’t see defense (1:05:05) Is it more because of the mad thing the mutually assured destruction, right? (1:05:09) That’s my belief. Yes (1:05:11) What I also found interesting (1:05:13) It involved W (1:05:15) Right.We talked about involving George W. Yeah, right and (1:05:20) how (1:05:21) He never mentioned (1:05:23) Anything with Iran and nuclear we didn’t know we didn’t really hear about it till really till Obama really (1:05:28) Correct, and the reason was because he had floundered so much on the WMD in Iraq, correct (1:05:36) How interesting that is because to me he’s a lame-duck president (1:05:42) It’s 2007 2008 (1:05:45) Why not? (1:05:47) What what what what what a great audience what more could have hurt? (1:05:52) What could it hurt to divulge it at that time? (1:05:56) And I don’t think it would have hurt. I think it would have hurt his ego. I think he (1:06:02) Because he everybody knew he was wrong (1:06:05) Everyone knew he was not this the smartest freaking guy.So now he has an actual credible (1:06:10) It’s like you’ve been crying wolf for seven years and now you’re gonna cry wolf again, but this time it’s real (1:06:15) No one’s gonna believe you. It’s all parable. They’re very wolf.I mean, yeah, he did it again, right? (1:06:20) Yeah, but this time it’s real so didn’t want it (1:06:23) Well, he also didn’t want it to be wrong and or the pundits to say it’s wrong. Remember like (1:06:28) There was a leaning (1:06:29) Media agenda to an extent. Absolutely, and he didn’t help (1:06:34) No, it’s mission accomplished for example, like and he didn’t help with correct (1:06:38) You know his you know, some of his misspeak some of his stuff was a little blundery.Of course. I (1:06:46) Can’t imagine how I’d react when someone whispered that a plane has been flown to a fucking tower (1:06:52) But the look on of loss on his face like he looked (1:06:59) Like I have no fucking clue what to do (1:07:02) Well, what anybody but he didn’t look angry. I didn’t know.I don’t know what the look felt (1:07:06) I don’t know what he like. I didn’t he didn’t see angry and you know, he looked it was like (1:07:11) It’s blank. It almost seemed blank ish (1:07:13) Okay, that’s all I’m saying.I’m not look whatever it happened. You know, I mean, I don’t know how I’d react (1:07:18) But like I said, but he was pretty much criticized for some of his like (1:07:22) Bumbleness. Oh, yeah, absolutely (1:07:25) Deputy dog ish kind.Yeah, I don’t know what the hell. Yeah, what’s like? What’s a good character in character? (1:07:31) But I like deputy dog that’s that’s pretty good, but yeah, I just (1:07:35) Once again, I just found how it once again went president to president (1:07:40) Bush to Obama, right, but that’s from this the cyber security (1:07:44) Perspective and then and then to do aggressive or offensive maneuvers versus just using it (1:07:50) Yeah, keep people out, but to your point about why didn’t (1:07:54) Bush W say something in 2007 about these Iranian nuclear (1:08:00) Development was he scared it would tarnish his record. Yeah, you know, I mean, yeah if he did (1:08:07) He did or didn’t call it out.Is it a no-win situation for him as the lame-duck president? (1:08:12) Do you not trust the information? (1:08:14) I mean they were talking that’s possible to write time I doing a virus to destroy these centrifuges that were making really I I felt (1:08:20) Like they had the correct data. Well, yeah (1:08:22) Data, I mean they did show that quote-unquote evidence (1:08:25) They did show that Obama was looking at the blueprints of the power plant and all the centrifuges (1:08:30) So, you know someone said that (1:08:33) Right, but I’m even under W though (1:08:36) It seemed like they’d all known because he launched the cyber security (1:08:40) I felt like he was the first one who launched the attack on them and to begin with and that’s why I feel like is (1:08:45) One of the earlier versions of that Stuxnet or something or at least started working on Stuxnet or yes (1:08:50) Yes, some Pete several people came to President George W and (1:08:55) advise them of this idea instead of bombing the nuclear facility in Iran or (1:09:02) Having Israel do it and then us mopping up and pulling us into a war (1:09:06) Hey, we have an idea about a cyber attack on the plant (1:09:10) What do you think and he gave them the green light? (1:09:13) but the documentary (1:09:16) Advised that Obama’s the one who executed it (1:09:19) Actually put it into production put it into whatever you want to work. Yeah, it’s so interesting though (1:09:25) And what did you that secretary of state guy the mic? (1:09:28) Well, I forget his last name the ball guy with the glasses drinking the diet coke.Yes (1:09:31) Yeah, that dude’s that that dudes probably seen a lot of shit semi-diabolical, but it’s also like love is candor (1:09:37) Gotta be honest anything. It’s not classified. He was happy (1:09:41) He was the director of the NSA and the CIA was that correct and the Secretary of State at some point? (1:09:45) I think I didn’t see that part wasn’t that’s who he was next when he was with two titles (1:09:50) Yeah, it was director of CIA and director of NSA correct.So think about all the (1:09:56) Information that that guy’s seen and forgotten, you know, I mean like and to be like, yeah, that’s not important. Somebody just went to war (1:10:02) Yeah, that’s do we don’t care about that country move on. You know, I mean like think about the number (1:10:07) Right, yeah, maybe in a week and until right.Yeah, Somalia who? (1:10:12) Whatever. I don’t know just Bosnia-Herzegovina what you know and like things like that (1:10:17) But yeah, it’s really interesting though, isn’t it? (1:10:20) How candor how much candor he had I really like what I liked about (1:10:25) What made me kind of admire George Bush Dudd’s jr. Cuz I don’t know him. I don’t know him from anybody (1:10:30) We only know about him.Oh, yeah. She’s a great guy great guy (1:10:35) Chinese he’s Astros (1:10:37) Texas Rangers, hey (1:10:40) What I admire is like he always wanted more options than bombing or the bomb (1:10:45) Yeah, that was a cool statement. Absolutely (1:10:48) That is an you have to admire I out of the box thinking of that because you would argue that some presidents (1:10:57) It’s only those two options.Yeah, the more military aggressive (1:11:01) There’s some pretty but there’s some pretty basic ones out. Yeah (1:11:05) I’m gonna be the right I’ll hit you with the bigger stick (1:11:08) Yeah, you know and look it was kind of was it Roosevelt speaks awfully carry a big stick. That’s correct.The first one (1:11:15) Yeah, TR. Yes, right (1:11:17) It’s a great statement, right? Cuz it’s like it’s not about puffing out your chest. It’s about back.Yeah, but absolutely talk shit (1:11:23) And I I don’t know just feel like one thing like one of my favorite guys coach Lee Corso on college game day (1:11:31) says is (1:11:32) when you lose (1:11:35) Say nothing when you win say less (1:11:38) And I love that because your actions should speak for themselves. I like that too. Yeah (1:11:43) Yeah, like you didn’t need to hang a banner reading mission accomplished on a carrier in (1:11:48) 2003 when there was no mission and there was after that there’s 3,000 more troops died for no reason (1:11:54) I’m just saying when there was no mission and there wasn’t accomplished.Yeah. Yeah (1:11:59) Regardless but obviously (1:12:01) once again (1:12:02) Hard decisions to make of course sending all of you Trump the drone on that general guy from Iran, right? (1:12:09) It’s obviously after this documentary. Yeah, that was last year, right? (1:12:13) Yeah, I think February last year.It’s coming up 2020. I think it was okay early 2020 or late 29 (1:12:19) I think it was 2020. Okay, but that general (1:12:23) I (1:12:24) Forget his name.Yeah general Iranian general. Yes, who else died in that strike of other people? (1:12:30) Yeah, how many how many not just innocent but people who aren’t targets regardless correct guilt or innocence, correct? (1:12:37) and completely obviously unacknowledged and (1:12:40) Completely unlike it’s not like we’re declaring anything on that. How is that not an act of war? (1:12:46) I don’t know.Like is that an act of war? Are we at war? I (1:12:52) Drone drop a bomb on somebody. Isn’t that an act of war? (1:12:55) Don’t they have the right to retaliate did it happen in Iran or were they in Iraq or something? (1:13:01) Were they in another country? We got away with it. Like no (1:13:03) I’m just saying all these things are very interesting to me about those ethics of it.It’s not or lack right without taking a side (1:13:10) I’m very curious as to is nuclear is having nuclear capability defensive because everyone talks about the defense of our country or (1:13:18) What’s the right of us to say they can’t have it because we think you’re gonna use it for nefarious purposes because we think (1:13:23) That but we were on your side (1:13:26) 40 years ago in 81 (1:13:29) And 67 and wave right up until well up (1:13:32) Well, basically up until we took Iraq like help Iraq and then we hated both of them. Yeah (1:13:38) That’s kind of what happened, right? (1:13:39) Did we go to go higher on higher on and it went higher rock higher rock and we said fuck both of you (1:13:44) It’s kind of kind of old dad’s a very good summary of the last 50 years, sir, you’re welcome (1:13:51) But now and it’s this isn’t it I’m really talking in a very non like emotional like angry negative way (1:13:56) I’m curious. What are these answers right? Or what are these questions? (1:14:01) Mm-hmm.So do you have other points that you wanted to share? You said you had a couple three? Okay, sure (1:14:06) You’re a man. I have three first is the fact that (1:14:10) The Department of Homeland Security had no idea about this (1:14:18) virus (1:14:20) Possibly created by the US and Israeli governments (1:14:23) It was brought to the Homeland Security’s attention that they interviewed the director of Homeland Security (1:14:28) Sean McNaughton at the time and he was never told by anyone to (1:14:34) stop investigating this and they investigated it so much that (1:14:39) There was a Senate hearing about it and the whole time the NSA and the Cyber Command and multiple presidents (1:14:46) Said nothing and I’m sitting there thinking to myself, okay (1:14:51) Well number one think of all the money the American government (1:14:56) Wasted in that Senate trial Senate hearing about a virus that (1:15:02) Possibly the own its own country created. What kind of shit is that? Yeah, the left arm doesn’t know what the right arm (1:15:08) Why can’t you just pick up a phone and go? Hey, man, I’m up on the 19th floor.I know you’re on the 16th floor (1:15:15) This is the fucking deal. Don’t have a Senate hearing (1:15:19) What the fuck what what you’re saying is why didn’t (1:15:23) If I may I’m gonna ask if this is what you’re saying. Sure.Are you saying this? (1:15:28) why didn’t the NSA pull the NCC is part of the the cyber security people of the (1:15:34) Homeland Security, why didn’t you talk to each other and go? Hey, hey, this is the fucking deal. I think I’m looking at (1:15:42) It’s us (1:15:43) But we it’s classified. So just just shut it.Just move along change the subject and let it go (1:15:51) Right, but no we had to drag this out on fucking C-SPAN, but isn’t that kind of cool that it’s exposed? (1:15:56) Oh, absolutely. See so that’s semantic would have exposed it either (1:16:00) So even if the department even if the Department of Homeland Security on the news that a government entity exposing it would even if the (1:16:07) Department of Homeland Security director was not interviewed the story still holds water (1:16:12) From everybody else they talked to right? I (1:16:15) Don’t think that they that guy wasn’t that whole section didn’t need to happen because somebody didn’t pick up the fucking phone (1:16:22) Well, no, I found it very interesting is oh, yeah thing is well once again, it is a covert operation. They can’t tell them (1:16:29) Well, they can’t the NSA the DHS doesn’t have authority or the clearance to be told well (1:16:36) All I gotta do is doing all you gotta do is hey, don’t do that (1:16:40) I know but have his boss go don’t do that.That’s it (1:16:45) I’m wondering though if they can’t even do that because that alone already makes it, you know (1:16:51) Obviously, it’s something right? (1:16:54) Yeah, yeah (1:16:54) I’m just saying like I wonder if that if doing that mate starts is already it too much (1:17:00) To say don’t do it is already being culpable to the things they’ve done. Does that make sense? (1:17:06) Yes to maybe internally obviously I understand. I’m just wondering what the legal ease of that but yeah, you’re I agree with you like hey (1:17:14) But it was really interesting the way he talked about and exposed how it worked and how like it affect them (1:17:19) But then they asked him (1:17:22) They said (1:17:24) Somebody asked me if I thought it was us and it didn’t even cross my mind (1:17:29) Do you remember that? Yes did not even cross my mind to think that we were the ones that made it.I (1:17:36) Found that interesting too. Yeah (1:17:37) So I find that cool kind of in kind of cool in a way that they looked at the problem without an agenda (1:17:44) In a way like yeah, I would have been semi agenda driven like hey, was this us right? (1:17:49) Right would already (1:17:50) Twist it without just looking at the number or the data a preconceived notion, right? (1:17:55) I found that very objective and I found that very refreshing in a weird way, even though I found it naive (1:17:59) I found it refreshing. I just found it focused.I found it stupid. My second point was that (1:18:07) Yeah, my second point was that (1:18:09) the (1:18:10) Iranian gentleman that they interviewed I (1:18:13) Don’t know his title, but his point regarding (1:18:17) Hey, if you’re a young Iranian the American Iranian Council guy (1:18:23) Executive director very handsome yet. Well spoken amazing short.Nice beard. Yeah, great hair. Yeah great hair beautiful (1:18:31) Lovely gentlemen all his skin.He spoke with this had a semi British. I just well-spoken well-educated. You could tell he was very well-spoken (1:18:38) Yes his point about I demand crush.Yeah (1:18:41) If you’re a young person in Iran (1:18:46) Regardless of your gender and you are made aware that the US and or Israel (1:18:54) Launched a cyber weapon on your nuclear production facility (1:18:59) Then then your country creates a cyber army of its own (1:19:04) Don’t use his point was (1:19:07) that attack against Iran (1:19:09) Could galvanize the country and bring them even closer together that they have an (1:19:16) America and Israel truly are more evil than we already thought they were so you’ve got all these people (1:19:23) Enlisting into the cyber army to learn about (1:19:26) the internet and cybersecurity and malware and all the shit and I thought his point was (1:19:33) Holy shit. He’s totally right. We just we just it’s like a (1:19:37) The US and video exactly you stole my line.Absolutely, right? (1:19:41) It’s a recruitment video for their stupid cyber army, which is a terrible term (1:19:45) But yeah that I I love it’s like capital I lowercase r period CA (1:19:50) Why not? Just the ICA? (1:19:52) What’s the ICA is it is it stepping on some other agencies probably? (1:19:57) Okay, the ICA. I just thought his point was well Wow (1:20:01) Well when he said galvanized it was funny when he talked about the initial (1:20:04) Galvanizing in the country with the nuclear part to begin with yeah the nuclear part (1:20:08) But then he was saying like you’re destroying the nuclear reactors, yeah, what are you gonna do you’re gonna sign up it’s easy (1:20:13) It doesn’t you’re not losing your life typing in fucking letters into a cure. You’re probably not gonna (1:20:18) Job, you’re fucking it’ll give you a skill.It makes it probably it speaks to your intelligence level to begin with (1:20:27) so like (1:20:28) That’s a great fucking opportunity that any (1:20:31) Young person want hey carry a rifle or click a fucking mouth from the comfort of your home, right? (1:20:39) Like which one do you think you’re gonna join? Yeah, you know March in the sand (1:20:44) or whatever heat or (1:20:47) fucking ceiling fans (1:20:49) ceiling and air conditioners (1:20:51) little iced tea (1:20:53) Evaporative coolers all that shit. Yeah, just in case my last point. I will save towards the end (1:21:00) Do you have anything else to add on this amazing document? Where are we at then? (1:21:05) It was just interesting.They implicated us or zero. I (1:21:08) Look, if if if that’s who did it, I think that was incorrect. I think it was an act of war (1:21:13) That’s really fucked up because what I did find interesting about the one secretary state the arms are the CIA NSA guy (1:21:20) Yeah, yeah, I stand with Bush in the pictures and yeah the guy the ball guy with the coke in the yeah (1:21:25) It was good.I can’t talk about it. Ha ha ha I don’t know but if I did I can’t talk about (1:21:30) He he ha ha. Oh, yeah, he I liked him.I did. I liked his candor and (1:21:36) He just what did he say at the end there about (1:21:42) It needed to be stopped or slowed down or or whatever (1:21:45) What was the other part that I I had a good part? (1:21:49) Man today’s brain. It is frickin brain fart Sunday (1:21:53) Not not son not like Sunday (1:21:56) Ice-cream Sunday brain fart brain fart Sunday brain fart Sunday (1:22:02) He oh man.Oh poop part. Darn it. Well, hopefully we get back to what were we talking about before I (1:22:08) Have one last point good.Just close it out. My last point is that (1:22:13) Towards the end of the documentary one of the people they were interviewing (1:22:18) said is (1:22:19) This the kind of world that we want to live in I was like wow (1:22:24) Because regarding specifically the cyber attack and then the retaliation of (1:22:30) I ran against the banks and the whole malware and development of the sucks net virus (1:22:36) Is that the kind of world that we want to live in where countries are attacking other countries networks? (1:22:46) That’s not the kind of world that I want to live in right and that was my point about the Mike guy Mike (1:22:50) I said (1:22:51) when the United States (1:22:53) initiated this act (1:22:55) They basically set a precedence, oh, yeah, they made it now everyone’s gonna look and say oh, that’s okay then and (1:23:03) And that is a very (1:23:05) True kind of statement, you know, I mean, yeah like (1:23:08) Yeah. Oh, well, I guess we can do it then too, correct? (1:23:11) So now it’s the now it’s out of the box now.It’s the new new cyber is a nuclear norm, right? Yes, and (1:23:17) Once again, you’re you’re paying you don’t have to pay them much. You don’t pay fucking you don’t pay your army much (1:23:25) you could pay them half the amount you pay or (1:23:29) Whatever. Yeah.Hey (1:23:31) How’d you like to fly the drone rather than be the guy getting shot? Well, it’d be cool to fly one (1:23:35) Don’t get me wrong. So like how would you be? (1:23:37) I’d rather fly a drone then then be a grunt on the fucking ground. Yeah, of course with a boot on the ground (1:23:42) Yeah, like (1:23:43) I’m gonna choose.Yeah the joystick, you know, I would (1:23:48) Yeah, I agree is the joystick whoa, yo (1:23:53) Yeah, but it was like we set that precedence now it is gonna happen where it’s okay because us did it first China (1:23:59) We know China. We know China and Russia are gonna do it. We know we’ve done it.We of course (1:24:05) It’s and it’s look (1:24:08) Mike my biggest concern is that would it’ll it’ll hurt the civilian population of a country (1:24:13) Yeah, and I don’t want that civilian population of the country to be us ours (1:24:19) No, don’t innocent people don’t deserve I don’t want it to be anybody correct. I definitely don’t want it to be me (1:24:26) Well, I’m just saying I know that I get it. I’m trying to be like honest about my my fear of this (1:24:31) Yeah, I don’t want it to be me (1:24:33) Shit, I don’t want to be anybody but obviously both you or anybody nor anyone none.None of us nuns (1:24:41) Both of everyone both of all of them (1:24:43) Everybody (1:24:45) But it was really interesting how this thing was made how it (1:24:50) Was so systemic, you know, yeah (1:24:53) And then the question is was it was a previous version working and there was no we don’t have any answer on that (1:24:58) But is a curious question for me. Yeah, I know it eventually get caught up (1:25:02) But maybe by some point they would have gotten to some peace and would have been water under the bridge a long time (1:25:06) You know, I mean right in discovering it. Yeah, not a re (1:25:10) Initiation is like guys we knew this was happening.Anyway, you’re right (1:25:14) You guys were trying to get us to stop the whole time, you know, I know I know yeah, you know (1:25:19) I mean like maybe it might have been to that point by the time they figured out (1:25:22) however, the aggressiveness seemed to be pretty nasty and the problem with the aggressiveness is it wasn’t confined to (1:25:30) Just the Natanz facility right now, right? It’s everywhere. Yeah, so it’s a little something about but then I’m sorry (1:25:36) Yeah, and then now there’s hackers. I mean (1:25:39) It’s easy.It’s probably easy to get easier to get recruited for that than then another type of fighting. So cool. Very true (1:25:46) It was very interesting documentary.Yeah, I wasn’t (1:25:49) Blaming or pointing fingers. It seemed to be very (1:25:53) W did this Obama did this? (1:25:56) You know Nixon did that Johnson did that? (1:26:00) The Israelis did this the NSA did that there was a lot of factual, right? (1:26:05) It wasn’t like some of it was just people stating (1:26:09) And we hope that they were telling the truth, yeah (1:26:13) It’s you know when they when they interview an NSA person. We hope they’re telling the truth, you know (1:26:19) but we don’t know a (1:26:23) Greed yeah, and on that note that was a fun one.Yeah. Thank you for sharing and watching that with me (1:26:27) No, do you have any final thoughts on that? Just the usual final thought (1:26:31) Be excellent to each other party on