Lisa Ekman, author of ‘Deprogramming Democrats & unEducating the Elites: How I Escaped the Progressive Cult’

Mark welcomes Lisa Ekman, author of ‘Deprogramming Democrats & unEducating the Elites: How I Escaped the Progressive Cult’.
Lisa comes from the Left, I come from the Right, we met in the middle & had a pleasant 2 1/2 hour conversation.
Book on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Deprogramming-Democrats-unEducating-Elites-Progressive/dp/1662895313
Lisa’s X: @DeprogrammedDem
Outro: ”Goodnight, Sweetheart, Goodnight” – This score is in public domain and may be freely downloaded, printed, and performed. The sound file may be downloaded for personal use. For more information see https://lincolnlibraries.org/polley-music-library/

Transcript:

(0:00) Hey everybody. (0:00) And welcome to another episode of Knocked Conscious today. (0:04) I had the pleasure of speaking with Lisa Ekman.(0:07) She’s the author of deprogramming Democrats and uneducating the elites. (0:11) How I escaped the progressive cult. (0:13) I met her at freedom fest.(0:15) She had a booth there. (0:16) It was a great conversation. (0:17) Here it is.(0:18) I hope you enjoy it. (0:19) Sounds great. (0:20) Well, Lisa Ekman, welcome to Knocked Conscious.(0:23) Thank you. (0:24) It is a pleasure to be here. (0:27) Excellent.(0:28) Well, I’m going to, I’m going to just have a quick opening. (0:30) If I may. (0:31) So I had the honor and the privilege of having to do media (0:35) coverage for freedom fest.(0:36) So I was running around covering all lectures and panels. (0:39) And there was this whole exhibit hall with a bunch of booths. (0:41) Lisa was at booth.(0:43) I don’t remember the number, but I do remember it was an interesting book that (0:46) I walked by called deprogramming Democrats. (0:50) And I myself have, have been deprogramming myself from the neocon side, (0:58) not from the Democrat side. (1:00) So it was beautiful.(1:01) When we walked by, you handed me your card. (1:03) We’re talking. (1:04) Welcome.(1:05) Tell us a little bit about yourself and a little bit about how you got to freedom (1:09) fest, and then we’ll go from there. (1:12) Sure. (1:12) Well, thanks again, Mark, for having me on to talk to you today.(1:16) Uh, I was a democratic advocate and lobbyist in Washington, DC for 20 years. (1:22) Um, I arrived there at the tail end of the Clinton administration and I worked (1:26) for a Clinton appointee at a federal agency. (1:30) Um, I was recruited through something called the presidential management (1:35) internship program, which is designed to pull people with graduate level (1:39) education into federal service.(1:41) Um, and I, um, over the next 20 years, I worked for a federal agency. (1:47) I, um, worked for, um, three different senators, uh, in the United States (1:54) Senate on the health education, labor and pensions committee. (1:58) And just to give you a sense of the flavor, one of those was, um, Ted Kennedy.(2:02) Um, one of those was Tom Harkin and one was actually, um, Republican named (2:08) Jim Jeffords who switched parties to become an independent and gave control (2:12) to the Democrats way back in 2001. (2:16) So I, I (2:17) very quickly, you didn’t, you didn’t go for a ride with Ted around (2:20) any lake or anything, did you? (2:22) No, no. (2:22) I, I was very careful not to do that.(2:25) And actually in one picture that I took with him, you couldn’t see one of his (2:29) hands and my dad was like, Hey, where’s that hand? (2:31) And it was just in the small of my back. (2:34) It was fine. (2:35) He was, did you, did you meet Robert? (2:36) Did you meet Robert before or at Freedom Fest by any chance through (2:40) this connection with, with Ted? (2:42) No, I have not.(2:43) I have not met him. (2:44) I had, I, I, I saw him speak at Freedom Fest. (2:48) I also saw him, uh, speak at the Libertarian National Convention, which (2:52) I’ll tell you a little bit about.(2:54) We are talking about that. (2:56) And guess what? (2:56) I’ve got a podcast coming up that I think you are going to love. (3:00) We’re going to talk offline.(3:02) Excellent. (3:02) Excellent. (3:03) Yeah.(3:03) So, um, I also worked, uh, during those 20 years, I went to law school and (3:10) got my, uh, Juris doctorate from Georgetown, um, and also Georgetown. (3:16) Very impressive. (3:17) Well, thank you.(3:17) Yeah. (3:18) I mean, for what I was doing, it was the best place to go. (3:21) I had a fabulous experience there, but I did, uh, I, in retrospect, I looked (3:26) back and, uh, one of the things that I talk about in the book, uh, was very (3:30) evident at Georgetown that your professors are going to be 90% Democrats, (3:36) 90% liberals, and that’s what you’re going to be taught.(3:39) So, um, (3:40) Yeah, there’s going to be an ideology push just to lean. (3:43) There definitely is. (3:44) There is indoctrination within the schools.(3:46) Um, and that is, uh, I spent a lot of time, uh, thinking about that and (3:51) writing about that in the book as I became awake, um, to what’s going on. (3:56) Um, so I also worked for federal contractors and also for, um, nonprofits. (4:04) So I kind of have the view of the entire spectrum of different types of (4:09) organizations you can work for in Washington, DC.(4:12) Um, I did disability policy advocacy. (4:15) So I tried to make a federal policy more supportive of people, um, (4:21) with individuals with disabilities. (4:23) Um, and towards the end of my career, I was working as a lobbyist (4:27) for a nonprofit association.(4:29) I was, um, elected by my colleagues to be chairman, uh, chair of the board (4:35) of a coalition of over a hundred different national advocacy groups. (4:41) Um, and so I was really entrenched in democratic politics. (4:46) Uh, I like to say, I like the way I look at it.(4:50) I sort of made my way to the outside of the inner circles. (4:53) I was never in the inner circle, so I would be at meetings with the (4:57) speaker of the speaker Pelosi, for example, or fundraisers, but she (5:01) didn’t know my name unless her aid whispered in her ear who I was. (5:05) And she didn’t have my number on her cell phone, that kind of a thing.(5:09) And I think you would have had to been a certain level to do that too. (5:12) You have to give up a certain bit of yourself to get deeper in, right. (5:16) I would assume you do.(5:17) And there were certain things that I was not willing to do. (5:21) Um, and I think that’s a beautiful thing just that you put your, well, I mean, (5:26) just, we had to give ourselves a little credit. (5:28) We don’t even realize sometimes where we take our liberty (5:31) and say, for me, that’s enough.(5:34) Yeah. (5:34) Um, I think so. (5:36) And you could have probably gone further, right? (5:38) I’m just saying you could have probably excelled in this, but, but you have to (5:41) do certain things to do that.(5:43) I would notice. (5:44) Yeah, I think so. (5:46) And I think, you know, for example, if I had to, I would go have (5:51) coffee with someone that I needed to, but I didn’t go out of my way to try (5:55) to get a coffee with people, um, because I knew that that coffee might lead (6:00) to other situations or conversations that I didn’t want to have, I didn’t (6:05) want to have opportunities, right? (6:07) Opportunity, correct.(6:09) Opportunities that, you know, you know, I’m going to make you an offer. (6:12) You can’t refuse kind of. (6:14) Yeah.(6:14) I’ve got, you haven’t seen him, but I’ll show you a little bit. (6:17) Let me see if I can get them over wrong way, but basically (6:19) I’ve got Brando right there. (6:21) Yep.(6:21) There you go. (6:22) Right, right there. (6:23) He’s sitting there.(6:24) I’ve got Travolta over here. (6:25) You can’t even see him, but. (6:26) I mean, the government is the mafia now, so it’s very appropriate.(6:30) You know, that, that comes up in our conversation, but it’s funny. (6:34) I actually brought that up. (6:36) But I, my girlfriend has never watched the Sopranos and I’m like, what (6:41) better way to share libertarian viewpoints and what the government (6:45) is then through the Sopranos.(6:48) So we start watching it and I’m like, my love, tell me a little bit. (6:53) Okay. (6:54) So you’re familiar.(6:55) What’s the mob do? (6:56) And she’s like, well, well, they, they protect, they tell you they protect you. (7:00) But if, if you don’t pay them, they don’t protect you. (7:02) And I’m like, does that sound similar to something like taxes? (7:05) Like you, you have to pay them or else you’re in trouble if you don’t.(7:09) And for that money, you get certain protections from other things. (7:14) This is sound a little broader and watching like the individual things (7:18) that go, oh, this happened to be the SCOTUS hearing, and this was the, (7:22) you know, this, this is Tony beating up this guy. (7:24) Well, this is this specific event that happened in our government.(7:27) You know what I mean? (7:28) Yeah. (7:28) And you can make a lot of those parallels. (7:31) You definitely can.(7:32) And, you know, even down to the rackets that the mafia runs. (7:37) And we could talk a lot about the military industrial complex or the (7:40) pharmaceutical medical complex and, and those kinds of things, which you (7:45) really equate there in an interesting way. (7:48) Like the, the Trump thing that they were using in, in Georgia, for example, (7:52) the Rico they’re using Rico, the same Rico that it’s trying to P to shut down (7:56) the protesters for cop city that’s going on down there.(7:59) So it’s like, you know, it’s like the consistency, it’s like, be (8:02) careful of the powers given, not how they’re used. (8:06) Don’t give the powers away because of how they might use. (8:10) Right.(8:11) Yeah, for sure. (8:12) And we can talk more about that maybe a little bit later in terms of sort of what (8:18) is so hard for me to watch on the left these days in terms of we’ll take the (8:25) power for us and we’ll just assume that no one we ever don’t want to use it. (8:31) It’s going to get it.(8:32) But that’s, that’s a whole other, a whole other topic, which (8:35) maybe we can talk about later. (8:38) So, you know, I spent 20 years in Washington. (8:42) I was starting to sort of get a little bit, I don’t know, disillusioned.(8:50) You know, I really thought I could make a difference. (8:52) You know, I was a classical liberal, which I kind of forgot over my years in (8:56) Washington, but I really thought maybe I can make a difference in the government. (9:01) I can work from the inside to make it better.(9:04) And after, I think, I think when I first got there, things seemed to work better (9:12) and people on both sides talk to each other and actually tried to come up with (9:18) some solutions for, to make things better. (9:22) If you believe government can ever make things better, which is a separate (9:25) conversation, but they were at least able to have civil conversations. (9:29) And, and (9:31) honest actors, you had somewhat honest or more honest actors.(9:34) Like, let’s be honest. (9:35) The classic liberal still held a job, you know, held, held a nine to five. (9:39) Like most of the classic liberals worked hard.(9:43) They just had a, they just had, they had this little, slightly (9:47) more, whatever you want to call compassion in this different way. (9:50) Just like, Hey, not everybody had the chances I did. (9:53) So maybe we should all work together or something.(9:55) It’s, there’s some kind of ideology, but it’s certainly not what the left is now. (9:59) Just like the right. (10:00) Isn’t what the right is.(10:01) MAGA is not what the right is. (10:02) It doesn’t represent the right. (10:04) It’s its own cult.(10:04) You know what I mean? (10:05) And, and we have to balance these things. (10:07) Sure. (10:08) Yeah.(10:08) And I, I do. (10:09) I definitely think that’s true. (10:11) I like to say that I didn’t leave the democratic party.(10:13) It left me and, you know, I talked about (10:16) it seemed like it became extremely radical and it happened very incrementally. (10:24) So. (10:25) Positions on things slowly changed, you know, until all of a (10:29) sudden you’re way out here.(10:30) And if you don’t agree exactly with what we’re saying, then you (10:33) are a IST or an ISM or a phobic, you know, you are racist or transphobic. (10:41) And let us not forget in the 2000s, Hillary and Obama, I (10:45) believe both spoke against gay marriage. (10:48) For example, as one example, this is just one 15 mere years ago.(10:54) This same group that’s classically liberal, which is a different set. (10:58) Like we’re all different. (10:59) Like there shouldn’t even be labels, but generally, you know, this general (11:02) group of people had this certain ideology.(11:04) It just got completely hijacked. (11:07) It got hijacked and co-opted. (11:10) And, you know, it is exactly compassion that led this to happen.(11:18) And I, we can talk more about that, but I believe that it’s compassion (11:23) that is weaponized into fear and anger. (11:28) And then they lose sight of the compassion for the other people that (11:34) get affected because they’ve been programmed and indoctrinated to believe (11:38) that there’s a certain group of people that deserve their compassion. (11:41) Whereas others don’t.(11:43) And so, um, I used to, if I made two examples, very quickly, (11:46) I’m sure we’ll talk about them. (11:48) One would be COVID don’t kill your grandmother. (11:51) Take the jab, take the jab, take the jab.(11:54) The other one would be trans trans women in women athletes. (11:58) That’s like, that’s a fair thing. (12:00) It doesn’t take at all in a consideration, the effort and the work and the merit of (12:05) the actual biological woman in that case.(12:07) Those are two where I would think. (12:09) And those are two examples in the book that I use, you know, and with, with the (12:14) trans one, you know, I would even take it a step farther, um, because you could (12:18) say, or, um, going into the restroom, you know, with members of, yeah. (12:25) And jail, right.(12:27) Where people are saying like, there was one in California, for the example, (12:31) you’ve raped somebody and impregnated them. (12:34) And then at the trials, I, I am, I am trans. (12:37) With a full, you know, full beard.(12:38) And it’s like, wait, I mean, okay, great. (12:41) But what, come on, like what, where, where does that, where does the compassion (12:45) just become so blind that it hurts everyone else, you know what I mean? (12:51) Well, and, and I think, um, one of the things that may be also important to (12:56) think about, and I don’t call the members of the left liberals anymore. (13:00) They’re progressives.(13:01) They want us progressing towards communism. (13:03) You know, that’s what they want. (13:05) That’s progress.(13:06) Um, and part of, um, what, uh, they are attempting to do is eliminate objective (13:15) reality so that they can control your thoughts and your language and you, (13:20) the party’s always right. (13:22) And so you look to the party and why that works on a lot of progressives is that (13:27) they need external validation, Mark. (13:29) They need everybody else who is a progressive to think that they’re, (13:34) they’re good, they’re smart and they’re right.(13:37) So if they are told you’re supposed to only care about the trans kid and not (13:43) about the little girl who is afraid to go into the locker room with a little (13:47) boy who has a penis, you can’t stand up against that or else you’ll be (13:53) excommunicated, canceled. (13:55) Yeah. (13:56) You’re phobic.(13:57) Yeah. (13:58) And so that, you know, that is a big part of how they control, um, people is this (14:05) is the only way you’re allowed to think and speak. (14:07) And if not, then you are, you are, you’re bad.(14:12) And, um, most progressives need to be told they’re not bad, but they’re good. (14:18) Um, and, and something, most people need to be told that they’re okay, people. (14:23) I think we’re all been told that in some way, if we’re not X, Y, or Z that we’re, (14:28) we’re the ones who created the problems for X, Y, and Z. (14:33) And I don’t know, I don’t know how you can directly equate, (14:36) correlate those two pieces.(14:38) I totally understand that we have to intermingle and collaborate in some way, (14:41) but it seems like a very big jump to make. (14:45) Yeah, I think so. (14:46) And I don’t disagree that all humans want to belong and want to be accepted (14:51) and believe that they’re good.(14:54) Um, I think though, what I don’t think all people, I want to be clear. (14:58) I don’t think all humans are good at all. (15:01) No, yeah, no, they, I, I, I think most humans are good.(15:06) I don’t believe that they always act that way. (15:10) And that was the thing they generally want to get along more than anything. (15:13) We know we need to coexist, right? (15:14) I mean, Spike Cohen did the whole thing about respect is like, how many people (15:17) did we interact with on the way to Freedom Fest from our hometown, (15:22) from you, from where you were, you know, obviously in the East and me, (15:25) from where I’m at, it’s like, you still had to have these weird social contracts.(15:29) It’s someone wasn’t just going to like up and stab you out of nowhere, you know? (15:32) Um, that is very true. (15:35) You know, I think the difference is that, um, and there are a number of reasons (15:40) for this that we could talk about, Mark, but the difference is that, um, I think (15:45) that when, with the fear-based reality that most progressives live in, I don’t (15:51) think that a lot of people who are not progressive live in that same fear-based (15:56) reality and the fear creates motivations, um, that don’t exist in someone. (16:04) And the fear also, um, the identity of a progressive becomes so integral to who (16:12) they are, their self-image, their self-esteem in a way that other people, (16:17) their ideology, identity politics.(16:19) Right. (16:19) Exactly. (16:20) Exactly.(16:20) Yeah. (16:21) So, um, yeah. (16:23) So what’s interesting I find for you and I possibly is we had the fear of nuclear, (16:28) you probably slightly more than I, but you know, duck and cover and all that (16:32) stuff, we had the nuclear fear.(16:34) That was our, the cold war all the way through the eighties until (16:37) the clash right at like 1990. (16:39) Right. (16:40) Then this climate thing comes in, but somehow the climate thing has taken (16:45) a control to the point where like, we can’t even stop it, at least with the (16:50) nuclear one, we tried to disarm to an extent, right, we had some peace (16:54) treaties written to disarm, but the climate thing has taken this animal (16:59) and gotten into the skin of youth, of the youth to a point where I don’t (17:04) know how it’s festered so strongly.(17:07) Well, I think again, um, when, and we ignore the nuclear part right now, (17:13) while we’re escalating nuclear war, we’re actually ignoring that part. (17:16) Like I know that’s, it sounds weird, but it’s almost like to (17:18) become this weird kind of shift. (17:19) I’m curious your thoughts on that.(17:21) Yeah, I think, I think, and that’s a really good point. (17:25) I mean, we are potentially at the brink of nuclear conflict in a couple (17:30) of different theaters at the moment, um, or maybe even three, really, uh, (17:35) four, yeah, three, well, I don’t know. (17:39) Um, yeah, at least two.(17:41) And there’s, I know, I know the escalation from one. (17:44) I know one wants everyone gone. (17:46) I know that one, but then you’ve got the other one where we’re (17:48) kind of escalating and we’re pushing.(17:50) Where we are escalating. (17:51) And I, I think, you know, with how do I, how to explain it? (17:58) I think that for younger people, especially who didn’t live through (18:03) the cold war, I think that they’ve never really had, um, nuclear. (18:08) They don’t have the same kind of fear.(18:11) I’m not even sure what they’ve been taught to be honest. (18:14) Our schools are such a mess about Hiroshima and Nagasaki. (18:17) I’m not even sure what they know about what the effect (18:21) of a nuclear weapon would be.(18:23) You know, and, and again, for us, it was just drilled into us, you know, (18:28) well, I think what they’re, what they’re missing is a Nagasaki Hiroshima Dresden. (18:33) It’s like, yeah, that’s why the Geneva convention was written. (18:38) It’s not like that.(18:39) It’s not like that was done in spite of the, you know, the things that we did. (18:44) The, these were actions that led to corrections in war in some way. (18:50) Right.(18:51) And we, we don’t, we completely flip that up. (18:54) So I hate to keep getting off case, you know, (18:57) I love the flow of the conversation, but I love, I love for you to just, let’s (19:01) get back on track a little bit more to your thing and, and how you got, so you (19:06) got disillusioned and then what was the next piece? (19:10) Well, I think the next piece to kind of let you know is that, um, in, um, right (19:18) around 2000, the end of 2008, my dad got sick and, um, I had, uh, we spent, I (19:27) spent between then and 2016 dealing with health, the healthcare system for my (19:32) parents and in my mom, um, while my dad was very ill, became diagnosed with (19:38) stage four cancer and asked me to try to help save her, you know, and so I did a (19:45) lot of research and found out that what our federal regulatory agencies were doing (19:50) was not exactly what one might hope for if they were actually protecting us (19:56) and doing what would be needed to keep us healthy. (20:00) And I learned a lot of things about what one would want to do in (20:05) order to keep themselves well.(20:08) And that, um, kind of, uh, disillusioned me even more about our, um, our (20:17) healthcare system and our agencies, you know, but I had to just sort of push (20:21) that aside and go back to work after my mom died. (20:25) And then, um, if I may, on the health side, if I may, on the health side, I (20:31) have an ex-girlfriend that, uh, whose, whose father was diagnosed with stage (20:35) four, uh, metastasized, metastasized cancer. (20:38) They gave him six months to a year and a half.(20:41) And I was working with cannabis and, uh, hemp and CBD at the time. (20:45) And I had gotten them on. (20:46) I’m once again, I I’m not a doctor, I’m not anything, but I got them, got (20:50) them on Rick Simpson oil, got them on these very extreme, you know, high (20:54) doses of CBD and whatnot, and he just passed last month, I mean, nine and a (21:00) half years, he made it and they gave him a year and a half.(21:02) And I’m absolutely certain that a lot of the holistic things that we, that we did (21:07) that were off label or something, certainly, certainly helped in some way. (21:11) I can’t say that anything’s a miracle or anything, but it’s interesting. (21:15) Once again, to your point, you had the same, a similar, you know, an experience (21:18) with the healthcare system and everything you want to do to help.(21:21) I’m sure you’ve met some roadblocks along the way. (21:24) Um, I did. (21:25) I mean, my mom was given the, get your affairs in order.(21:29) You probably have months, not even six months to a year. (21:32) It was an extremely aggressive kind of, uh, uterine cancer that she was diagnosed (21:36) with and, um, we changed her diet. (21:39) We got her off all the toxic.(21:42) Everything except for, she stayed on some pharmaceutical medication, um, which I (21:47) think probably did not help, but that being said, she was cancer free for two (21:54) years with, I got her completely cancer free before she finished her first round (21:59) of chemo. (22:01) Um, and then a small growth appeared back at the original site and they put her (22:06) back on, uh, gave her another chemo treatment and it fried her kidneys and she (22:09) died like right away. (22:12) Yeah.(22:13) Thank you. (22:13) Yeah. (22:13) So, um, I mean, just to be frank about it, chemotherapy is poison.(22:20) Um, and they literally tries to kill cancer before it kills the patient. (22:23) It’s, it’s literally a race, a weird, it’s not even a race. (22:27) It’s like a marathon that you are very, it’s just not a fun one to run.(22:32) No. (22:33) Um, so, and the, the, and it destroys your immune system. (22:36) It, it’s like the exact opposite of what you want to be doing if you have some (22:40) sort of, you know, health issues.(22:42) So, so I went back, um, to DC and then, um, Donald Trump got elected president (22:51) and I was grieving my parents and I thought that the world was over, you know, (22:58) I thought that, you know, uh, he was going to undo all the progress that we’ve made. (23:05) He was going to destroy the environment. (23:07) He was going to do all these horrible things.(23:09) So I decided that I was going to get a weekly massage because I needed some (23:16) stress relief, you know, for what I knew was going to happen. (23:20) Well, I mean, you had, look, you also had a rough, I mean, you have a rough (23:23) thing with your family and then this on top of it, you were talking, your (23:26) family is your, your foundation. (23:28) And then you’ve gotten this ideological dissonance with the (23:32) person who just took is taking over.(23:35) Correct. (23:35) Yeah. (23:36) So it was, my whole world was, um, and so I, by the way, that probably told you (23:43) you were on the right path for whatever it was about to change, because it’s, it (23:47) is true for some reason, as you align yourself with the current of whatever it (23:53) is, those obstacles start mounting.(23:56) They start getting in the way and they, it’s not a test, but it’s (23:59) like you turn away or you don’t. (24:01) And if you, if you don’t turn away, trust me, the other side is going to (24:06) be net better than where you started. (24:09) But if you turn away, it’s probably going to be net, not as good.(24:14) Not as good. (24:15) Yeah. (24:15) I think, I think you’re probably right.(24:17) Yeah. (24:17) Yeah, definitely. (24:19) So, um, I, I did end up getting massages once a week for two years.(24:25) Um, and became really good friends with my massage therapist. (24:28) And, um, then once he, uh, quit giving massages to pursue, uh, uh, a different (24:37) business, uh, he and I started a relationship because we had become very (24:41) good friends. (24:42) Um, yeah, so, but he thought very differently than I did and he was (24:49) yeah, it is a thing.(24:52) Um, you know, uh, people ask me a lot when I’m talking to them about this, (24:56) did he red pill you? (24:58) And I said, no, he provided me an opportunity to open my mind myself. (25:05) Nobody was going to tell me anything because that’s the first thing I would (25:09) say, you can’t tell a member of a cult anything, because if you’re not an expert (25:14) in their mind, and we can talk about what that means in a little bit more detail (25:17) later, or you’re not an authority, then they aren’t going to listen to you at (25:22) all because they only listen to those folks. (25:25) And we talked about that.(25:26) For example, the democratic party hijacked again by, by elites. (25:30) And I think elite is in your title somewhere, correct? (25:33) It’s yeah, the title is D the full title of the book is deprogramming (25:37) Democrats and uneducating the elites. (25:40) How I escaped the progressive cult.(25:42) Um, so exactly to my point. (25:44) So these elites come in and they look at this, you know, PhD masters, blah, blah, (25:48) blah, Dr. (25:49) Jill, all this stuff, but they, they don’t understand the experience of (25:53) conservatism in any way. (25:55) It’s all in a vacuum.(25:57) It’s not practiced. (25:58) It’s just, it’s purely ideological. (26:02) And there’s almost no foundation on some of it.(26:05) Now, obviously the ideas are always good, but I saw some statistic about if you (26:11) are from the progressive left or whatever they call it now, the percentage of (26:16) people, of them that watch anything outside of say CNBC or MSNBC is, is very low. (26:22) Yet, if you go to the person who tends to be more conservative or more extreme (26:26) on that side, they tend to at least watch other shows, they might be yelling at (26:30) the screen the whole time, but they’ll put on CNN. (26:33) So I don’t know if you ever saw that statistic, but it was an (26:36) interesting one that I saw.(26:37) I curious, it sounds to echo exactly what you’re talking about. (26:40) Yeah, it does. (26:42) I mean, I, you would, most of the people that I knew and were in that, um, work (26:47) circles that I ran in watch CNN or MSNBC, a lot of MSNBC.(26:54) Um, and you know, they basically thought Fox news was all lies. (26:58) And, you know, I, I don’t even think Fox news is actually a (27:01) true independent, um, conservative. (27:05) It’s a controlled opposition for a corporate uniparty.(27:08) Trust me, it’s Rupert Murdoch. (27:09) And I can get into Rupert Murdoch all day. (27:11) Cause it’s not even a joke.(27:13) I’m not kidding. (27:14) One of, one of the, one of the biggest flip flip for me, once again, (27:18) all I want is more information. (27:20) I, I have been compelled to change my mind.(27:23) You’ve been deprogrammed. (27:24) I’ve been deprogrammed. (27:25) We talk about this stuff, Michael Jackson.(27:27) It was Michael Jackson. (27:29) That was one of the ones for me where I was on the side. (27:31) I watched the HBO stuff.(27:33) I watched all of the propaganda thrown about him and everything. (27:36) And I watched this other documentary and I spoke with Taj Jackson, Michael (27:39) Jack, Michael Jackson’s nephew for almost three hours and just rationally (27:44) watched this other documentary and watch jurors on the thing with Michael (27:48) Jackson and just debunk all of it. (27:50) And then overlay that story over top of the car, every story (27:54) and see where the lies are.(27:56) Cause now, for example, they started something, uh, NPR. (28:00) I, I put, I just asked her to listen to the radio in the morning and I go, (28:03) Hey, put on the NPR and my girlfriend’s in the, in the kitchen with me. (28:07) And they go, Oh, we’re going to do this.(28:08) Uh, the heritage foundation is really actively thing. (28:11) I go, let me guess. (28:12) I go, they’re going to say project 2025 and no quicker.(28:16) Could I say it then that came out? (28:19) Cause you knew it was propaganda. (28:20) You knew something was going, they’re going to tie it to some negative thing (28:24) and she doesn’t even recognize it. (28:26) And it’s not anyone’s fault.(28:27) Certainly not her fault or anyone. (28:29) They don’t know to look. (28:31) Once they know to look, they look and that’s that deep programming (28:34) that you kind of elude to.(28:36) Yeah. (28:36) Yeah. (28:37) And that, I think, you know, so.(28:40) Um, I, I think it took a lot for me to start questioning again. (28:46) And, and I think that is really where we are in the story is basically, I had (28:53) planned to retire, um, from that work in March of 2020, and that was (28:59) planned since October of 2019. (29:01) So if you think back to March of 2020, beginning of COVID right after the (29:06) initial quote unquote, 14 days to slow the spread, um, I was in Vegas (29:11) the day that MGM shut down.(29:13) It was crazy. (29:14) Oh, wow. (29:15) That, that must’ve been really crazy.(29:17) Um, I have a picture of the intersection in Vegas, right? (29:20) Where Giada’s is right. (29:21) We, we were the horseshoe and Caesars and all, and Caesars and (29:25) Bellagio complete, not a car, not a single car, so weird. (29:29) So weird.(29:30) Um, so, um, you know, I, I’m an avid reader and I’ve watched a lot of movies. (29:37) And so, you know, as soon as they started telling us they were (29:40) going to shut everything down. (29:43) I decided I didn’t want to be in Washington, DC.(29:45) That’s where I lived. (29:46) Um, and, uh, if they decided they had shut down international travel, if they (29:53) decided to shut down domestic travel, like you can’t leave your state, DC (29:58) is allow people down so easily. (30:00) So I, I said, let’s get out of here to my now boyfriend, who was my massage (30:06) therapist and who is now my fiance.(30:09) Um, but congratulations. (30:10) Thank you. (30:11) Yeah.(30:11) So we were going to go to an Airbnb because I said, let’s go out in the woods (30:16) so we can get outside because one of the best things you can do for yourself to (30:20) keep yourself healthy is get sun and fresh air and vitamin D and fresh air. (30:26) What a shock these, what it’s like opening a window is like the oldest (30:31) wife’s tale, best remedy you could ever do when you’re sick. (30:34) Yeah.(30:35) So, um, but because we didn’t know how long this was going to last and all of (30:41) that, um, and because I was kind of, we were thinking of getting one for (30:45) retirement to go travel anyway, we bought an RV and we went out to West Virginia (30:50) where his family’s, uh, a lot of his family was living, um, and went close (30:54) to his kids and his grandparents in case they needed something, we could (30:58) go help them during the pandemic. (31:02) Um, well, um, while we were out there, he and I were having very heated (31:07) discussions because he didn’t buy the pandemic from the beginning. (31:12) And I was living a life led by fear, hook, line and sinker, didn’t want to die.(31:19) They don’t want to kill anybody, especially not grandma, you know? (31:22) So, um, he and I were getting into a lot of heated discussions at the same time, (31:27) you know, everything they were recommending made no sense to me from a health (31:32) perspective, based on what I had learned when I did all the research from, you (31:37) know, for my mom and now including don’t go outside. (31:41) Right. (31:41) Um, (31:42) and, and, and also watching, for example, Anthony Fauci at the beginning talking (31:47) about how little masks are effective and doesn’t matter, and then all of a sudden (31:51) flipping and it’s like, it’s never, don’t, it’s like, you, you have to at (31:55) least show your work, you can’t just make a statement, show me, I don’t look, (32:00) I understand ideology and sometimes I don’t get it, but if you just show me how (32:04) you got there and at least, at least we can then have the conversation, but you (32:10) say X and then you say Y and it’s like, they are just complete opposites and it (32:15) does, it literally complete, completely creates some problems.(32:18) Yeah, a hundred percent. (32:20) And that’s an example in the book is masks, you know, another, and I have, you (32:24) know, some of his emails and his statements and he, he like, he basically (32:29) said that it would be more practicable or practical to have masking everybody (32:34) mask as a, and it’s like, well, that’s not science. (32:37) It was more to keep everybody in order and keep everybody in line and keep (32:40) everybody doing.(32:41) And yeah. (32:42) And then the six foot social distancing, you know, it, it really, it didn’t make (32:47) any sense to me and there’s no science to support it. (32:50) And it turned out to be completely made up.(32:52) He’s, he’s since admitted that. (32:53) But I also happen to know that one thing standing six feet apart does is keep (32:58) each other out of our energy fields. (33:00) So the energy that you emit that brings me happiness because you’re happy, I (33:06) can’t feel it.(33:07) The love that you, you know, the, all of the positive emotions. (33:12) So we’re isolated. (33:13) We’re out of each other.(33:15) There’s a social aspect to it. (33:17) Correct. (33:17) So, um, so that was going on, but that in, in and of itself was not enough to (33:24) break the dam.(33:25) It was the censorship. (33:27) It was the fact that I re somehow I remembered I’m a classical liberal and (33:33) they were violating every one of our first amendment rights. (33:37) Every one of them, our right to associate our right to assemble our right to speak (33:44) our right to practice our religion, um, free exercise of it.(33:49) Um, and even our right to a free media, you know, a free, uh, press were being (33:55) violated. (33:56) And on the other hand, you had all the people who were, you know, the science (34:01) deniers and these idiots, morons saying, research it yourself, go check yourself. (34:07) And, and that, (34:09) Oh, you mean read? (34:10) Don’t read.(34:11) Lisa, how dare you? (34:14) I know. (34:15) Just watch, just watch our Tik Tok videos on our YouTube. (34:19) Pay no mention to the man behind the mirror, the curtain or whatever.(34:24) So we were having a heated discussion one day. (34:27) Um, and two things happened. (34:32) I just, you know, I couldn’t believe that my, the government that I had worked for (34:37) and worked with and trusted would do this, right.(34:41) Would do this to the world. (34:43) And, um, he asked me this question, Mark. (34:47) He said, if they’ll poison our water, what won’t they do? (34:52) And now I already believe that they poison our water with fluoride and (34:56) chlorine and who the heck knows what else they put in it.(35:00) Yeah. (35:00) My understanding was from the fluoride thing, and I could be wrong, but my (35:04) understanding, and I don’t care if I being fact check, we’re having a conversation. (35:07) This isn’t, this isn’t a news hour.(35:09) Uh, the fluoride was some kind of leftover from, uh, the world war two, I (35:14) think, where it just couldn’t do anything. (35:15) So we just dumped it in the water to disperse it because it can’t be, it (35:19) can’t be converted or something into some other kind of chemicals or something. (35:23) Yeah.(35:23) It is, it is a, it is a waste product from some manufacturing. (35:29) I believe. (35:31) Ammunition possibly.(35:31) It might be, I forget. (35:32) I forget what it was once again. (35:35) I don’t want to, I don’t want to smear it more than it has to be.(35:37) It’s already bad enough, you know? (35:38) It is bad enough, but you know, I mean, there’s plenty of pure abuse. (35:44) And Jackson, Mississippi. (35:45) Yeah.(35:47) Where showing the fluoride damages young developing brains, especially, but, um, (35:54) and so I already believe they’re poison or water and they tell us it’s safe for (35:59) us and they do all sorts of scientific mumbo jumbo, which, you know, we could (36:04) talk about in order to try to convince us that it actually is. (36:07) But you like taking an extra, take an entire sip of water, you know, like (36:11) Flint where they’re like, aha, let’s take a whole sip. (36:14) Okay.(36:15) And we’re good. (36:15) Okay. (36:16) We’re going to leave now.(36:17) But let’s not talk about the fact that it’s also in every soda you drink. (36:21) It’s also in every, um, processed food product that has (36:25) plastics on top of it. (36:27) The containers that are holding everything now is we’re seeing these things happen.(36:32) Yeah, we are. (36:33) Right. (36:34) So, so in this heated debate, he asks this question and then, um, he says (36:42) something else and I don’t actually remember what he said after that, because (36:47) my brain sort of froze and then he said, if you don’t believe me, go research it (36:52) yourself, prove me wrong, please prove me wrong.(36:57) And I said, or probably yelled at the time, fine, I will. (37:03) And then I started actually asking questions and researching and I went (37:09) on down rabbit hole, so to speak after rabbit hole, um, and nothing (37:14) has ever been the same, nothing. (37:17) Um, but what I really did was allow myself and by the way, that break, that (37:22) break you had is literal, that is literal cognitive dissonance.(37:26) It is at that moment when you’re, you’re literal subconscious, your ego, your (37:31) whole world absolutely just snaps and you completely freeze. (37:40) You do not know what to do. (37:42) It’s worse than Biden on stage.(37:43) It’s literally that bad. (37:45) Yeah, it is. (37:46) It’s worse than that.(37:47) Um, and I mean, I mean, getting through that is such a beautiful thing, but oh (37:52) man, that is such an uncomfortable feeling when you’re, when you’re in that. (37:55) And it, it, the past three years have been extremely challenging, you know, (38:00) for now, very uncomfortable. (38:03) Um, and you know, for me, especially my, my life, not just my identity, (38:10) um, personally, but my entire identity was friends, relationships, (38:19) other things, family, all that.(38:21) Work family. (38:22) But I was, I was a public advocate for Democrats for all of this ideology. (38:30) That now was called into question for me.(38:34) And, um, I’m sure you got painted somewhat woke at some point, right. (38:38) With the, with the way they were doing that right before you had left. (38:41) You know, it had really, it had really just started before I retired.(38:47) I’m glad you didn’t have to go through that. (38:49) Cause I think that’s just the opposite badness. (38:51) It’s like, it doesn’t solve the problem.(38:54) Just coming up with a term, you know what I mean? (38:57) No. (38:57) Yeah, it didn’t. (38:58) And I, um, so I, uh, had retired by the time this happened.(39:04) So it wasn’t working, but, but you know, I think you hit the nail on the (39:08) head with cognitive dissonance mark. (39:10) And I think what one of the, one of the differences is, I think (39:15) progressives can handle a great deal of cognitive dissonance (39:19) compared to, um, free thinkers. (39:23) You know, they just really can.(39:25) And so that’s why you, you see them holding very seemingly (39:29) hypocritical views all the time. (39:32) And I think (39:33) there’s an openness. (39:34) I think Jordan Peterson’s very Jordan Peterson has this part locked down.(39:38) He’s not right about the current stuff. (39:40) He should leave the daily wire immediately. (39:43) But like I said, just like Andrew Yang has one thing, right.(39:47) And it’s about police officers getting purple belts in jujitsu. (39:50) Nothing more. (39:51) This is where Jordan Peterson has it, right? (39:54) He totally understands that chaos and structure, the chaos and order.(39:58) We need about an 80% chaos or order to keep that foundation going. (40:03) But without that 20% chaos, we can’t grow and adapt for when changes do come. (40:09) So we stay too structured.(40:11) We die. (40:12) We get too ethereal. (40:13) We died.(40:14) We were in the stage of this part of ethereal nature where we can just say (40:18) concepts that are true that are just to be because we believe they are. (40:22) So our mind can overcome what actual reality is. (40:24) And it’s like, you can’t conceptualize facts.(40:27) You can’t conceptualize. (40:29) You can’t make physics a concept. (40:30) It’s like a law.(40:31) It exists. (40:32) It’s a thing that is biology is a thing. (40:35) Yeah.(40:36) Biology is a thing. (40:37) Um, but if you are trying to get complete control. (40:43) And I don’t think it’s those open-minded people who are doing the control, right? (40:47) Once again, it’s the hijackers using compassion as a tool.(40:51) Correct. (40:51) To get to their means just like look, guns are a tool. (40:55) It’s how they are utilized.(40:57) If I’m hunting for two, for food, for my family, a gun certainly cannot be bad. (41:02) But if I’m here to inflict harm or tyranny on another, then guns are not good. (41:06) It is not the gun.(41:07) It is the, it is the method in which it is wielded and used just like compassion (41:11) in these laws and regulations and things like that. (41:14) Yeah. (41:15) So the dissonance, yeah, it allows for.(41:20) You know, it’s kind of like when you have a now sitting member of the Supreme (41:24) court, I’m unable to define a woman in her confirmation hearing (41:29) because she’s not a biologist. (41:31) You know, it’s, it’s like to that level of, of, of dissonance. (41:38) Um, and well, thank goodness.(41:41) Hold on. (41:41) Thank goodness for Chevron deference then, because we don’t need, we don’t (41:45) need someone in a white coat. (41:47) Who’s been ideologically.(41:48) Have you seen some of the, some of those hearings where they’re actually (41:52) able to somehow dance around a biological male being a female? (41:56) I mean, some of those are absolutely ridiculous. (41:59) It is the biggest tap dance I’ve ever seen. (42:01) Well, it is a choice.(42:04) It’s, it’s not about choice. (42:05) This is literally about facts, like just about that. (42:08) Yeah.(42:09) I mean, I always get back to, um, if you have a lie chromosome, you’re a (42:16) male, and if you don’t, you’re a female and nothing you do will change that. (42:22) And that permeates the majority of cells in your body. (42:26) So, um, but easy, easy.(42:29) Yeah, easy. (42:31) There’s, and you know, I, if you’re an adult, I support you doing (42:36) whatever you want to your body. (42:37) Go for it.(42:39) Love who you want, do whatever you want. (42:41) As long as it’s consenting adults and it’s legal, go ahead, do it. (42:45) I’m, I don’t care.(42:47) But, um, when you start messing with the kids, that’s where I have a problem. (42:53) And when you start to tell me what I can say or not say, um, (43:00) compelled speech, right? (43:01) It’s just as bad as it’s just as bad as banning or censoring. (43:05) Free speech is making someone’s speech a certain thing.(43:07) Yeah. (43:08) Because you’re really, it’s, it can be worse because you (43:12) are then compelling my thought. (43:13) In order to speak it, I have to think it.(43:17) And so you’re, you’re, and that is where you’re getting into 1984. (43:23) It is. (43:24) So it’s double speak.(43:25) It’s new speak. (43:26) It’s all of the speaks from, from 1984. (43:30) And, um, there’s a lot of 1984 theme in my book because, you know, we carry (43:36) our telescreens with us in our pockets.(43:39) Um, and I jokingly say that my old colleagues, we had our three (43:44) minute hate against Donald Trump. (43:46) You know, if you recall the book, I don’t know if, if you do, I will say (43:51) that, um, my, my, my fiance and I read, we read it, we had both read it in the (43:56) past, but we read it out loud to each other during the COVID lockdowns and it (44:02) was horrifying, but so accurate, you know, in terms of what it is that we (44:11) are really going through and the, and what I had came to the conclusion that (44:17) the cultural revolution towards communism that has been several, many, many (44:22) generations actually in the making here in the United States, you know, (44:27) when we talk about Yuri Bezmenov, for example, uh, I had an Aresh visa on. (44:31) Um, he is a CNN contributor.(44:34) I met him through Freedom Fest. (44:35) Okay. (44:36) He dragged me down.(44:37) I spoke, I, that was my, I think my last podcast or a couple of podcasts ago. (44:40) And, um, he talks about obviously China and all that parts, but he talks about, (44:45) you know, to your, to your point, what you were just talking about and how powerful (44:48) that is. (44:50) Um, yeah, I mean, it is, it’s about compelling, compelling how people think.(44:55) So when you compel, when you control how someone speaks and they’ve been doing (45:01) this since the seventies with political correctness, that’s how it started. (45:05) And again, it’s like the frog in the boil in the, in the cold water that (45:09) you slowly turn the temperature up. (45:11) It’s the incremental, um, okay.(45:14) So, you know, back then, you know, you don’t want to say this (45:18) word cause it’s not nice, you know, but the least that happened or the (45:21) worst that happens is what they tell you. (45:23) It’s not nice. (45:24) Now you can get canceled and you know, all of that.(45:28) And the language keeps getting more language and more language (45:33) is now politically incorrect. (45:34) Right. (45:35) So, and the point I was trying to make, I apologize.(45:37) I skipped, I get Bidenitis. (45:39) I get Bidenitis. (45:40) I swear.(45:41) I got a little Swiss cheese memory, but, uh, the point that Uri Besmanov, I think (45:45) in 1984 had that speech where he taught, he’s an ex KJB and he talks about how (45:50) they infiltrate the schools. (45:52) And I mean, if you can exactly blueprint the timeframe and the G and the, and (45:57) literally the generation exactly. (46:00) Overlay that it’s absolutely true.(46:02) What, what I was trying to get to is Naresh was talking about TikTok and how (46:06) much exacerbated it is because of its influence and that, for example, that (46:12) China’s taken the Besman off mold and has been able to really put that on a (46:18) steroid model because it’s captured our three second attention spans. (46:22) It’s, it’s pretty impressive in a very diabolical way, you know? (46:27) Oh yeah. (46:27) In a very diabolical way.(46:29) And you know, we can have, you know, I’m, I’m, I’m somewhat of a Luddite sometimes. (46:34) I, I, I probably, I don’t even know how we’re talking right now. (46:38) I’m not going to lie.(46:40) I’m no, I don’t either, but I also, I, well, I would never have been able to (46:47) wake up probably without technology because it provided me the opportunity, (46:51) you know, the library and yeah, to find information at the same time. (46:56) I had the encyclopedias at home. (46:58) That’s all you had.(46:58) They were fixed. (46:59) You got them once every, you know, five years or whatever. (47:02) Come on.(47:03) That’s what we had, you know, and the card catalog at the library, (47:07) you know, microfiche maybe. (47:09) I know. (47:10) Yeah, I, I, I was, I was a debater in high school and college and I spent a (47:15) lot of time in the microfiche and macrofiche rooms, you know, yes, indeed.(47:22) Um, and, and so, but at the same time, technology is also, I think, (47:29) um, ruining us in many ways, you know? (47:32) Uh, so, and what it’s, what it does actually, it’s, I, I see it like money. (47:37) This is, this is, or any, anything that we have too much of, or something where too (47:40) much of a good thing can get dangerous is something like, what is it? (47:44) Money, money would make me a better person. (47:46) Money doesn’t make you better.(47:47) Money enhances what you are as a core person. (47:51) If you aren’t a great person, that money’s just going to give you means to (47:56) be more like less of a great person. (47:59) I don’t know why that is, but it’s, it’s just who it’s, who you are, right? (48:04) It’s not what you are, you know? (48:06) So same thing with this, like same, it’s almost the same exact kind of thing.(48:10) It’s how it’s used, you know? (48:11) It’s how it’s used. (48:13) And sadly, you know, um, all you have to do is go out and go to dinner and look (48:22) around you and every, most families, the kids will be looking at a phone (48:28) or a tablet throughout dinner. (48:31) No one’s talking to each other.(48:33) Um, and it’s, it’s a babysitter now. (48:36) And what I worry about most with it is the kids, you know? (48:39) I think that a huge part of why we see the, the, the trans, um, situation, you (48:47) know, gender ideology spreading in the way it is, the first thing is in the (48:51) classrooms to get back to your point about the education, um, system. (48:56) Um, you know, we have school districts in the United States where seven-year-olds (49:01) are filling out, um, pronoun worksheets, you know, without ever asking to be doing (49:07) that.(49:08) And you know, I, I’ve seen, um, many. (49:11) Let’s jump in. (49:12) Let’s put up, let’s talk about it right now.(49:14) California bill AB 1955. (49:16) Oh yeah. (49:16) Yeah.(49:17) Gavin Newsom, Gavin Newsom just signed into law. (49:20) There’s a woman, I just saw her. (49:22) She’s suing.(49:23) She was a PE teacher. (49:24) She was not allowed to tell the parents. (49:26) And she’s asking, I have to lie to them.(49:30) And they say for the safety of the children, you have to lie (49:35) to the parents of the children and let the beautiful teachers in the state of (49:40) California, in the California board of education, protect and be your parent. (49:46) Um, what, when, why are we, why are we treating the state like our parent? (49:50) It is our child. (49:52) We should be spanking it at every possible, like, I don’t understand (49:57) how we have allowed this lag.(49:58) It’s like, because we don’t want the responsibility that’s associated (50:02) with it almost in a generation that we got coddled. (50:04) And it’s kind of the Thomas, Thomas, uh, the height, uh, Jonathan height, (50:08) a book coddling of the American mind and how we just got soft because it was a (50:13) little harder, but we’re just trying to make it better. (50:16) You know, it’s a cyclical it’s that cyclical kind of emotion.(50:19) Well, I think that there is part of part of that, but it is also, I think purposeful. (50:26) I mean, part of what the cultural revolution requires is (50:31) destruction of the nuclear family. (50:33) It requires, uh, the state to be the parent it requires.(50:39) And so this is brilliant in a cultural, in a diabolical cultural (50:43) revolution, effectuation, agenda driven and in a weird way in that (50:47) perfect cultural time to take advantage of the agenda in that way. (50:51) Correct. (50:51) Exactly.(50:52) It’s definitely in my, in my opinion, it is. (50:55) Um, I mean, Karl Marx argued, you know, that, um, the family is where I’m trying. (51:03) Let me make sure I get this right.(51:04) The patriarchy meets the means something, but basically that you have to break down (51:14) the nuclear family in order to, um, make everybody, you know, the word of the (51:21) equal, the same, exactly. (51:24) So the school, um, and, you know, doing this, keeping a transition from (51:30) the parents does that beautifully. (51:33) It creates, first of all, your parents are not safe state and the school is.(51:39) And, um, it so promotes secrecy. (51:42) It promotes deception. (51:44) It promotes, it promotes a rift between the parent and the teacher and, and (51:50) everyone else between the institutions itself to even make it more of a rift (51:54) and pry so that they can call the FBI and call them terrorists and get arrested.(51:58) You know, it’s unbelievable. (52:00) What’s going on. (52:01) And I think, you know, I will say that again, I think people are becoming more (52:08) informed because of the internet and the ability to get information.(52:13) But I think the changes that happened in our schools flew under the radar for (52:19) most people who did not have children, you know, who are actively going to school. (52:25) Yeah. (52:25) I mean, I, until I started writing this book, I had no idea what was really going (52:32) on, how, you know, basically kids are being taught that, you know, not about (52:38) the unique history of the United States.(52:41) It’s a unique place it has because of our constitution and the amendments that (52:46) guarantee our natural rights, you know, natural born God given, you know, creator (52:52) given rights but rather we’re, we’re, we should be ashamed to be a member of this, (53:01) you know, of this country. (53:02) The colonialist imperialism that stole all the land from the (53:06) native Americans, which is true, which isn’t, it’s, it’s not, it’s not a lie, (53:11) but to call it that it’s not what that was. (53:15) I mean, my understanding is I recall if we, we utilized some of the assertiveness (53:24) and aggressiveness of some of the native Americans initially and then turned, (53:28) right, I mean, some, you know, we use, we helped others to wipe out other tribes.(53:33) It’s, that was a savage time. (53:35) We were awful then. (53:37) That’s, we can both acknowledge that and say, we are not that anymore, nor should (53:42) we be, and then we see the Middle East and we go, we shouldn’t be that.(53:45) No. (53:46) And that’s to be fair. (53:47) I was going to say too, like that was the entire world then, you know, and (53:52) Absolutely.(53:52) And once again, we just have to take context changes the content. (53:56) This is absolute fact that we just have to deal with, unfortunately, you know? (54:00) Yeah. (54:01) So I don’t think we are, most people knew how the curriculum was changing.(54:05) I don’t think most people understood how the curriculum at colleges (54:10) that teach teachers changed. (54:13) You know, and I mean, when you literally have professors, for example, saying (54:21) that math is racist and teaching teachers that math is racist, I mean, I saw a (54:31) professor who said that two plus two equals four is racist and having just (54:36) read 1984 where the entire way that they break his mind is getting him to say (54:41) that two plus two equals five. (54:43) This is, you know, hits home pretty hard that this is, this is what is going on.(54:48) This is indoctrination to control children’s minds. (54:53) And it’s so funny when we talk Freedom Fest real quick. (54:56) I mean, they, they, they called it brave new world.(54:58) Right. (54:59) And it was like, I remember speaking with Valerie early on and I’m like, Valerie. (55:04) Yes.(55:06) And it’s 1984. (55:07) It was almost like, where are we going in or, and it’s like, we’re, we’re (55:13) combining the two into some mega storm of some ridiculousness while we’re our (55:19) debauchery and all this other craziness is being let go. (55:22) It’s also being censored from the other side.(55:24) It’s like, what is going, I don’t even know how all of the (55:28) forces are converging at once. (55:30) Yeah, it’s funny. (55:31) I actually, and this is, you know, my, this, I think my fiance said (55:35) this first when it’s in the book.(55:36) We actually call it a, a brand new handmaid’s 1984 because we’re, we’re (55:43) having some fertility issues as well, which that brings in the handmaid’s tale. (55:48) The telial, the telials and everything like that. (55:50) The taint distance and things like that as well with yeah.(55:54) Yeah. (55:54) So I, you know, you have to kind of joke about it because otherwise, you know, (56:00) it’s, it, it’s pretty, you know, it’s like, I thought these were warnings, (56:05) these books, not, you know, instruction manuals, but here is where we are. (56:10) Well, I’m trying, I’m, I’m trying to playfully think it’s, it’s that (56:14) simulation theory and they hit that chaos mode on the simulator, you know, (56:17) like Sims, whenever you hit the tornadoes or the, you know, just random, whatever.(56:22) I’m like, they just hit chaos and just like, well, it’s time to hit reset. (56:27) Chaos is the, so, um, control of language, control of reality, (56:37) and then chaos in the city. (56:38) That was what Mao did in China to effectuate the cultural revolution.(56:43) So what we saw in 2020 with the, you know, the, the black lives (56:48) matter riots, yes, um, was very reminiscent, you know, and when you (56:54) the way the fist, the fist was stolen from, uh, the CIA coup back in Rome, (57:01) it was at Yugoslavia. (57:03) Uh, Mike Benz did a, did a breakdown on it. (57:05) And basically the black fist literally was there.(57:09) And there’s, it’s even funny cause it’s spray paint on the, on the wall. (57:12) And if you look at Candace Owens, she did a, like a spoof with the dollar (57:15) sign or the dollars in the fist. (57:17) It’s kind of a spoof all that.(57:18) Cause that has been used by the CIA abroad and tested to come home to roost. (57:23) I mean, we are now using our deep state in the full circle way. (57:27) We are becoming the banana Republic that we initiated around the world.(57:30) We just tested it everywhere. (57:31) And the crazy thing about this one was it was black fist. (57:34) And then someone put a big picture of Madeline Albright on it.(57:37) And you obviously know Madeline cause you lived in those circles. (57:40) I mean, Madeline Albright, come on. (57:43) When she said half a million Iraqis dead was an okay thing or something.(57:46) It’s like, Whoa, help me. (57:49) How do you, how can one justify? (57:51) So I hate to jump away. (57:53) But go ahead, go ahead.(57:54) I’ll let you finish. (57:55) Yeah. (57:55) So I know, but, uh, along, along those lines, I think part of, you know, what, (58:02) what allows that to happen is when you lose sight of any principles (58:07) that guide your decision-making.(58:09) And where we are is that the ends justify the means now, you (58:14) know, the ends justify the means. (58:16) And they have done a fantastic job of dehumanizing. (58:21) Um, the other, you know, whatever that other is, if, if you’re, you’re a black (58:26) person, that’s a white person.(58:27) If you are, um, yeah. (58:30) Othering just the othering, you know, men and women, you know, all of it, all of (58:37) the division, um, when they’re not, when, when you, you know, I mean, they’re (58:43) even dividing single and married in this weird, weird, twisted way. (58:46) And it’s like, we’re all adult humans.(58:49) Yeah. (58:50) Okay. (58:51) Well, you know, whatever, you know, in that way, (58:53) it is everything they can divide and conquer.(58:56) It’s the old, you know, put some fear in there, divide and conquer. (59:00) And it is mechanisms of control, you know, to, um, get people to (59:06) do whatever it is you want, you know? (59:08) And I think a large, go ahead. (59:10) Yeah.(59:11) A large, yeah. (59:13) Yeah. (59:14) A large part of this, you know, to me, um, is that we’re really in, in a, a (59:20) battle for a spiritual battle for our souls, for the soul of our country, (59:26) for the soul, for our, our very own souls.(59:29) And, you know, one of the things that I find a lot is that when you talk to (59:35) someone who has religious faith of any kind or spiritual faith of any kind of (59:40) connection to the creator, however, they, they, um, believe it’s much harder to do (59:50) that to them because they have principles that are guided, you know, grounded in (59:56) their relationship with the creator. (59:58) And it is much harder when you understand and have a belief that we (1:00:03) all come from the same place. (1:00:04) We’re all going back to the same place.(1:00:06) We’re all created either in the image of the creator, or we all have the same (1:00:10) energy that flows through us that comes from the source to other people, you know, (1:00:16) to make them into another, because we’re all the same. (1:00:20) And I think that’s why it is in part so effective, um, with many people who are (1:00:26) progressives because they do not have any relationship. (1:00:31) Yeah.(1:00:31) So if I may even take just half a step back, it’s just the foundations of some (1:00:37) value system that aligns at least, right? (1:00:42) Cause it’s almost, I mean, we talk Judeo-Christian values and yes, we can (1:00:45) talk Bible God, but we can also just take a half a step back and go to the values (1:00:51) that instilled upon courtesy, opening a door, please, thank you. (1:00:55) We’re all in this together. (1:00:57) You know, there’s no need for me to climb over you because there’s plenty of room on (1:01:00) the bus and there, you know, there’s plenty of room in the elevator and there’s all (1:01:03) that, all of those things that we’ve allowed to whittle over time.(1:01:07) And I think those are interesting traditions that would be passed through (1:01:11) generation that I think has not been passed. (1:01:14) I, I have seen young people that I can’t even make eye contact when I tried (1:01:19) to shake their limp dead fish hand. (1:01:22) Um, and I, it makes no sense to me.(1:01:24) I don’t even understand it. (1:01:26) Well, I think, I think there’s a number of things going on. (1:01:30) Um, there, I do think technology again is, has part of it.(1:01:35) You know, part (1:01:36) It’s withdrawn from that ability to be social to your point to connect. (1:01:39) Completely. (1:01:40) Yeah.(1:01:40) Technology makes people, you know, it’s easy to like call someone a name behind a (1:01:46) screen. (1:01:47) Um, it’s a lot harder to actually interact with someone. (1:01:50) Um, and it’s, it’s very easy to stay within a bubble, an information bubble, a (1:01:58) social bubble when you are primarily (1:02:00) And the algorithm does that.(1:02:02) I mean, the algorithm gives you what you want. (1:02:04) I mean, that’s kind of what it’s, it’s not a bad, once again, another tool. (1:02:07) It just happens to be what we’re interested in is what we’re interested (1:02:11) in and it exacerbates that.(1:02:14) That’s yeah, correct. (1:02:15) Um, I also think that, um, you know, I, I guess I’ll just throw it out there, but (1:02:22) you know, kids, uh, since younger than, than you, um, have been vaccinated with (1:02:31) so many vaccines and so many of them are on pharmaceuticals of other kinds, uh, (1:02:38) SSRI (1:02:39) Have you seen the documentary Vaxxed? (1:02:41) Have you seen Vaxxed? (1:02:43) Uh, I’m not sure that I’ve seen that one. (1:02:46) I think, I think it came out 2016 and it’s V-A-X-X-E-D.(1:02:51) Now I, obviously this is obviously not going on YouTube cause safe and effective (1:02:55) everybody at COVID safe and effective. (1:02:57) Um, but, uh, I have to say it allegedly. (1:03:00) I don’t know when they’re going to strike me.(1:03:01) I, I go on rumble cause it’s ridiculous. (1:03:03) But, um, so Vaxxed was one that Robert De Niro touted. (1:03:09) And then all of a sudden out of nowhere, the guy flipped on it.(1:03:17) And do you see what he’s all of a sudden been championing? (1:03:19) Like him going out to speak on behalf in front of the courthouse, calling (1:03:23) Donald Trump, projecting his complete ridiculousness onto Donald Trump. (1:03:28) It’s unbelievable. (1:03:30) They, there’s clearly a capture there.(1:03:32) I mean, it doesn’t even, and I, it’s just enough to say there’s something (1:03:36) that they have that makes him completely withdraw from Vaxxed, which was, which (1:03:40) very compelling to, to watch to your point, the vaccine schedule, look, Robert (1:03:45) Kennedy’s not wrong about that stuff. (1:03:47) You’re putting a ton of unknown substances in an infant forming thing. (1:03:54) What do you expect is going to happen? (1:03:56) Like, come on, what do you expect is going to happen? (1:03:58) You know? (1:03:58) I mean, they’ll say, oh, it’s only a trace amount of mercury.(1:04:02) Well, even our FDA says no mercury is safe. (1:04:05) So, and then how many traces of mercury? (1:04:08) As a preservative, from my understanding, right? (1:04:09) Is this the mercury that, right? (1:04:11) It is. (1:04:12) Like there used to be more in, um, Plymerasol, which was removed.(1:04:17) However, every vaccine has traced mercury. (1:04:20) There’s aluminum. (1:04:22) I mean, these are, heavy metals are not healthy.(1:04:25) Plastic. (1:04:26) Yeah, they are. (1:04:27) Absolutely plastic.(1:04:28) Yeah. (1:04:28) So, and then, you know, you wonder why. (1:04:31) You might be feeding them leaded gasoline while you’re at it in a (1:04:33) little baby bottle, right? (1:04:35) You might as well.(1:04:36) You might as well. (1:04:37) Um, so, um, I think that is a big part of it. (1:04:40) I think that’s a big part of, you know, combining with, you know, and I, um, I (1:04:45) do want to say to your point that I wasn’t suggesting, um, when I was (1:04:50) talking about having a spiritual, like, um, that is required for you to be (1:04:55) religious, you know, or anything like that.(1:04:58) And I do believe you can have, you know, you can believe in the golden rule due (1:05:03) unto others and the reason you can use reason. (1:05:05) I mean, a lot of the libertarian, a lot of the libertarian values are, are based (1:05:10) in reason more than they are, they’re more golden rule reason-based than they (1:05:14) are, you know, spiritual based, for example, spirituality. (1:05:19) But I think people have become, and I think technology contributes to this as (1:05:25) well, so, um, self-centered and self-focused and disconnected, disconnected (1:05:32) from everything, but it’s become an Island.(1:05:34) It’s become an Island in a bubble. (1:05:37) And, you know, it’s like literally it’s like that thing. (1:05:39) And, uh, there’s that, the lost in space, the reboot where Gary (1:05:43) Oldman is the bad guy, Dr. (1:05:44) Smith, and there’s that, that time bubble.(1:05:46) That’s like, everybody’s in their own little bubble that, that has (1:05:50) different speeds in it and different. (1:05:52) We’re all in different paths and we don’t understand where other (1:05:55) people are on their paths. (1:05:56) We bump into each other and then we come, we don’t even understand.(1:05:59) You know, there’s immediate conflict. (1:06:01) Cause we don’t come from say a foundational structure beginning or (1:06:06) some, some kind of foundation in some way. (1:06:08) Yeah, I mean, totally.(1:06:09) And I think, um, you know, that, that is really, really challenging. (1:06:14) Um, and it’s only getting worse. (1:06:17) I mean, kids don’t have an attention span.(1:06:19) Kids can’t have a conversation. (1:06:22) Um, I saw a professor who was talking about like kids are coming (1:06:27) into college and can’t read, you know? (1:06:30) So, um, because all they do is sit in front of, you know, uh, a screen and (1:06:35) like, uh, a friend of ours, um, has two kids in, uh, twins in high school. (1:06:41) They don’t have any books.(1:06:43) Everything is in a tablet for school. (1:06:46) So, um, and I, I say that, you know what they miss, you know what they risk? (1:06:51) That smell of a paperback book or a fresh bound book that you crack (1:06:56) open and it has that you connect to it because you add an extra sense. (1:07:02) You actually add to, you have the touch of the paper, the feel and the smell (1:07:06) and smells directly connected to memory.(1:07:09) And I think when you read and you have that, that all connect, there’s (1:07:13) something that’s deeper to it. (1:07:16) And I, it’s, um, it’s not an old school, get off my lawn thing. (1:07:19) It’s just something about the experience.(1:07:22) And the, and the, and the brain’s basically been rewired for children (1:07:26) because of the way that technology and the, the way, like literally the screens, (1:07:30) how many, you know, screens per minute and how many, you know, whatever (1:07:33) frames per second and all that. (1:07:35) It’s just completely rewiring the brain. (1:07:37) A hundred percent.(1:07:39) A hundred percent. (1:07:40) I, I’ll add one other thing I love about books, cause we have a big library in our (1:07:44) house and, um, are you a Stepanopoulos level? (1:07:48) Are you trying to get, no, no, no, not like that. (1:07:51) I mean, you know, I’m just, I’m just, but, um, what I was going to say is it can’t be (1:07:58) edited, you know, that you’re actually getting the actual text based on whatever (1:08:02) edition of the book you are buying.(1:08:04) If there are multiple editions. (1:08:07) Um, and you know, that was another, and it’s 1984 stuff. (1:08:10) I watched them edit headlines.(1:08:13) I watched them change the ministry of truth during COVID. (1:08:18) I watched this and I’m sitting there going, geez, Louise, this is, you know, (1:08:24) 1984, I’m watching it. (1:08:26) And, you know, one example was headlines around, um, the, the lie that Russia had (1:08:33) bounties out on us soldiers in, in Afghanistan.(1:08:36) And I, I think it was the Washington post might’ve been the New York times. (1:08:41) I don’t want to, you know, (1:08:43) Oh, pick your poison. (1:08:44) We can, we can, and, um, I thank goodness for the way back machine, right.(1:08:50) Or, you know, internet archive, cause you can find it. (1:08:54) And I side by side, you see the two different headlines and you’re like, okay, (1:09:00) well, yeah, they are editing this. (1:09:02) And how many times have they done this, you know, at least back when there was (1:09:06) microfiche, they couldn’t change the headline on you, but now any newspaper, (1:09:12) it is what you see when you look.(1:09:16) And so I, I have one example of that. (1:09:19) You can type it in and it’s the one it’s shocking. (1:09:23) It’s just apps.(1:09:25) The Atlantic came out with an article last year that said war (1:09:29) in Congo is good for climate. (1:09:33) And the argument is basically the death of the carbon footprint, which is us (1:09:37) from everybody getting killed is, is the climate’s better in Congo because of it. (1:09:44) And literally you can type in Atlantic war in Congo, good for climate.(1:09:47) They switch that like, to your point, right. (1:09:50) To something else about climate change being affected by the conflict in the (1:09:55) Congo, you know, in some juicy way. (1:09:58) And you’re just like, you bastards, you bastards.(1:10:02) And they do it all the time and mostly aren’t paying attention enough to know it. (1:10:10) And they’re holding three kids. (1:10:11) They got to get, got to this work.(1:10:13) They got a job. (1:10:13) They got a deadline to get, they got to run. (1:10:15) They got coffee to make.(1:10:16) They got the car to warm up. (1:10:18) They got, they got stuff to do. (1:10:19) They got the electric car to charge.(1:10:21) You know, they’re busy. (1:10:22) They’re busy. (1:10:23) You know? (1:10:23) Yeah, good.(1:10:24) Have fun for two hours while you’re waiting for your car to charge. (1:10:28) So, so you’re dissonant. (1:10:29) You then go down the rabbit hole.(1:10:31) Let’s go down the rabbit holes to, to your story. (1:10:33) And I love the conversation. (1:10:35) I know we’re going to have a great long time, but I really would love for you to (1:10:37) share a little bit of your background because that’s going to help us open this (1:10:41) door for others to say, oh, maybe this is something, maybe, oh, I’m kind of feeling (1:10:46) some things similar to how, how Lisa’s feeling.(1:10:48) So yeah, I think, um, I think COVID is where I started and I just, um, started (1:11:00) researching, I started looking at the data and a lot of it, just the government data (1:11:05) itself, you know, and, um, it was not consistent with what they were telling (1:11:11) us or what, you know, we were doing. (1:11:15) Um, I researched and found a letter that went out to all, um, morticians, uh, that (1:11:24) required, for example, COVID to now be listed as the cause of death, if there (1:11:29) was a positive test, irrespective of whether COVID was actually what caused (1:11:35) the death. (1:11:36) And this is not, did you see Rob Schneider? (1:11:39) Did you see Rob Schneider at the comedy festival at all? (1:11:41) Were you able to make that? (1:11:44) I don’t want to, well, I’ll, I’ll spoil it, but it’s basically, you know, there (1:11:47) was a joke, something about skydiver, skydivers, skydiving, parachute didn’t (1:11:53) open, he died of COVID.(1:11:55) Yeah. (1:11:55) And, and, um, then I started seeing parties about this. (1:11:59) Right.(1:11:59) Is it because of funding and the amount of money that the hospital, exactly. (1:12:05) Yep. (1:12:07) Um, one of the, you know, you, you saw at my table, I gave away buttons at (1:12:10) Freedom Fest and one of them was follow the money.(1:12:13) You can always figure out what’s real and true. (1:12:16) Once you figure out who’s paying for it and who benefits from it. (1:12:20) And that is usually, um, not what you’re being told, you know, it is something (1:12:25) very different than that.(1:12:27) Um, and so it was, it was COVID that just, I started looking at all these (1:12:31) things and the data didn’t add up. (1:12:33) And, um, you know, for example, I started looking for the studies that showed (1:12:39) that it was transmitted asymptomatically. (1:12:42) Well, they don’t exist except for modeling, which is the same models that said this (1:12:47) was going to be extremely deadly and it wasn’t, you know, and then I looked at (1:12:53) the government data about, you know, survival rates and who’s dying and, you (1:12:59) know, just, and you look at the one rate.(1:13:00) Well, the one, remember when they said a hundred percent effective. (1:13:03) Oh yeah. (1:13:04) Did you hear how they, how they got to that number? (1:13:07) Basically it was something about one of them got it and the other one got two.(1:13:11) So one is great is a hundred percent more than two. (1:13:13) So it was a hundred percent effective. (1:13:15) And you’re like, wait a minute, that’s how you get to, that’s not how science (1:13:18) works, that’s how big pharma works.(1:13:21) That’s how an industry works. (1:13:23) That’s not how science works. (1:13:25) And that was one thing I saw right away.(1:13:28) And what you just referred to is the difference between a relative risk (1:13:31) reduction and an absolute risk reduction. (1:13:34) And absolute risk reduction would be, you know, 50% less people get it. (1:13:40) Then if they’re not vaccinated.(1:13:42) Um, and the numbers were so small, Mark, I’m trying to remember, but I think it (1:13:46) was like less than 1% in the placebo in the control group got it. (1:13:52) Um, and a half a percent got it in the treatment group. (1:13:56) That would be a 50% reduction.(1:13:58) Um, it was ridiculous. (1:14:00) It’s all ridiculous. (1:14:01) It was all not science.(1:14:03) And then in hindsight, they had the, uh, international gentlemen (1:14:07) ask the woman from Pfizer, was it even tested for transmission and contraction? (1:14:13) And she laughed, she scoffed, laughed and says, of course not. (1:14:18) We were moving at the speed of science, which that, what is this? (1:14:24) I’m sorry. (1:14:24) The speed of science is not what you were doing.(1:14:27) No, it wasn’t. (1:14:28) I mean, it’s the last thing you were doing. (1:14:30) You know, even just, do you remember all these signs that came (1:14:34) out, um, saying, I believe in science.(1:14:37) You know, even that is absolutely ridiculous. (1:14:40) Like science is not something you believe in or you don’t. (1:14:43) You know, science is a process to get to the truth.(1:14:47) It is to debunk and to attack until it can’t be attacked anymore. (1:14:52) That’s all. (1:14:53) And it should all be open.(1:14:55) And it’s like to find something wrong should be celebrated more (1:14:59) than finding something right. (1:15:01) And it shouldn’t be criticized. (1:15:03) It should be, you know, in that weird way, it’s like, oh man, now (1:15:05) we’re not going down the wrong path.(1:15:06) What a great discovery in that way. (1:15:08) You know, in a, in a unique way. (1:15:10) It really is.(1:15:12) And I think, you know, what is, is very true. (1:15:15) This comes back to money again, you know? (1:15:18) Um, because when you disprove the current theory, uh, there are thousands (1:15:24) of people probably across the world whose livelihood, not to mention (1:15:29) corporate profits, depend on you being wrong and the current theory still being (1:15:34) right. (1:15:35) And so we could get into a discussion of peer review because it kind of makes (1:15:40) it very challenging to get a new theory out there.(1:15:44) But (1:15:44) have you heard about the one that was that peer review would have already been (1:15:47) captured where, oh, I forget what it was. (1:15:50) A university. (1:15:51) If somebody wrote a bunch of fake articles, something about gay dogs or (1:15:56) something, and it was peer reviewed and actually made it through all the peers, (1:16:02) all the peer reviews to some amazing thing.(1:16:04) I’ll just share it with you. (1:16:05) But it was one of those ones where we’re finding that you and I are both from (1:16:08) opposite ends of some Zuni structure that is driving the thing to your point. (1:16:14) It’s certainly the money base somehow.(1:16:16) Well, yeah, it is definitely. (1:16:18) And how are we figuring that out? (1:16:20) Right. (1:16:20) That’s where the question, I guess, comes in.(1:16:23) Well, uh, yeah, I’m, I, I, how do you follow the money? (1:16:27) Is that what you mean? (1:16:28) Um, I mean, how do we, how do we, once, once we obviously know the (1:16:31) trail where those trails lead, how do we work on untangling the money (1:16:37) from those institutions? (1:16:39) Right. (1:16:39) That’s really the, what it comes down to. (1:16:42) Right.(1:16:42) It’s really, really challenging at this point. (1:16:45) I mean, I don’t know that we’ve had anything that resembles pure, true (1:16:49) science in the past 50 years at, at, and probably way before that, but. (1:16:54) Yeah, you know, food pyramid, right? (1:16:56) Food pyramid and some other things were driven by industry.(1:16:59) It totally driven by industry. (1:17:01) Um, you know, we were told that, uh, you know, eggs for example, are terrible (1:17:09) for us, but sugar is just, they’re all, Oh no. (1:17:13) And then eat margarine.(1:17:14) I was in the margarine era where margarine was good for you. (1:17:17) And not butter. (1:17:19) Um, and you know, um, just as an aside, I don’t know if you know this, (1:17:23) but, uh, I think our brain cells are like over 80% cholesterol.(1:17:30) So when you have fat and cholesterol, if you have low fats, you could, that’s (1:17:34) where stroke, a lot of strokes happen because of conductivity just in (1:17:36) general for brain connectivity. (1:17:38) I mean, we’re electrical creatures who need conduct conductive (1:17:42) fats in our bodies and oils. (1:17:44) It’s like, hello, whatever.(1:17:47) I, yeah, that’s a whole other, we could do a two hour about all of that. (1:17:54) But the point being, it’s really going to be hard to disentangle (1:17:58) the money from the science. (1:18:00) Um, I don’t, you know, I think we need to sort of start from scratch in some (1:18:06) ways in a lot of these institutions.(1:18:09) Um, but the minute, you know, the minute that a scientist has a vested interest (1:18:14) through their pocketbook or their institution’s pocketbook in the outcome (1:18:19) of a, of a study or, um, an experiment, then, you know, you’ve lost science. (1:18:27) You are not, you’re not being true to the scientific method. (1:18:32) You are, um, you’re cooking the books already.(1:18:36) So I think, you know, that I think is going to take, um, a lot to undo. (1:18:43) And a lot of people have to, to, to be involved in that conversation. (1:18:49) And I think it starts at the universities.(1:18:53) Um, and I think we need to come up with a way that we have blind (1:18:59) funding for scientific endeavors. (1:19:01) And I don’t know how you do that, but you know, if Elon Musk is listening (1:19:06) to this or someone, you know, maybe else who has the money that (1:19:12) they could make that happen. (1:19:14) Um, you know, our, our, our, our government scientific agencies, NIH (1:19:19) is completely co-opted by industry.(1:19:21) The FDA, all, look, every industry, we’ve got literal people going (1:19:26) from Johnson and Johnson in the FDA. (1:19:29) They’ve already gotten the secretary. (1:19:31) They got it through Trump.(1:19:32) This is, I know they use Trump’s naivety against him in his first term to set (1:19:38) precedent for corruption and evil in the second, one of them is the secretary (1:19:43) of defense cannot come directly from an agency, but Trump’s guy did it. (1:19:48) Was it Esper? (1:19:49) I think came directly from Raytheon. (1:19:50) And that allowed the precedent for Lloyd Austin to come directly from Raytheon.(1:19:55) And that stuff is just on freaking acceptable. (1:19:59) In my opinion, none of that should happen. (1:20:02) And, and, and please continue.(1:20:04) I just had to jump in there because people do not understand. (1:20:07) Trump is, he’s a semi counterforce, but he’s talking about having Jamie (1:20:14) Diamond or, or what’s his name? (1:20:18) Think, think from BlackRock to be the secretary of treasury. (1:20:22) I’m sorry, Janet Yellen.(1:20:23) Wasn’t bad enough. (1:20:24) People, we, it wasn’t bad enough. (1:20:27) I’m sure I go from zero to a hundred Lisa.(1:20:29) And I’m just like, we’re just like starting to crack these, these, these (1:20:33) things and it’s so thank you. (1:20:37) I’ll let you continue. (1:20:37) I just had to jump in there about those because it’s crazy.(1:20:40) Those things that happen in that way. (1:20:42) It is crazy. (1:20:43) And it’s gotten exponentially worse over the past 20, 30 years.(1:20:49) I mean, it, when I went, when I arrived in DC, it was not that bad there. (1:20:54) The revolving door was at least you had to go, you know, take a walk around (1:20:58) the block or a few blocks before he came back in it and now it’s back (1:21:03) and forth and back and forth. (1:21:04) And (1:21:05) the age of just the average age of the people and how long they’ve (1:21:08) served the average length.(1:21:10) Oh yeah. (1:21:10) I mean, I think it’s an age it’s showing. (1:21:13) As, as, as an empire, and I mean, I, I’m not going to call you ageist.(1:21:20) I don’t think that’s true. (1:21:22) I think that I do not mean that in any way. (1:21:26) That has nothing to do with anything.(1:21:28) Yeah. (1:21:28) Yeah. (1:21:28) I know.(1:21:28) I just, I just want to be clear as well. (1:21:30) Cause I’m, you know, I still, I need, I can’t be canceled before I start Lisa. (1:21:35) I just, I, so I think that, you know, we, we have to start with the (1:21:46) curriculum in science classes.(1:21:47) We have to figure out a way to detangle the money. (1:21:51) Stan, I’m sorry. (1:21:52) STEM.(1:21:53) Did you see STEM? (1:21:55) They added the a for art and you’re like, the whole point of STEM (1:21:58) is that it doesn’t have art. (1:22:00) The whole point of STEM is that it doesn’t have art. (1:22:03) Yeah.(1:22:03) So I think, so that’s gonna, it’s going to be hard to undo, you know? (1:22:11) And I think that, I think this is a good point to get to, you know, one of the (1:22:16) things about the progressive cult that keeps them members and that is they (1:22:22) idolize the experts and they have been indoctrinated to believe that if you (1:22:28) don’t have degrees and credentials from the authority, whoever that is, (1:22:36) then you are not an expert. (1:22:38) And that’s your elite. (1:22:39) That’s the, that’s the point of the elite portion of your book, right? (1:22:43) Uh, correct.(1:22:44) Yeah. (1:22:44) Um, and you have to, so you don’t question an expert. (1:22:49) So you, you may see this on social media all the time.(1:22:53) Someone will raise a point. (1:22:54) They may have done, you know, they may have read and done good research (1:22:58) and have a good valid point to, to make, but they don’t have the degree. (1:23:05) They don’t have the credentials.(1:23:07) So they just dismiss them out of hand. (1:23:11) They don’t even give them, um, any, any consideration, you know, like, (1:23:16) Oh, well, I see you. (1:23:18) Where did you get your MD? (1:23:19) You know? (1:23:20) And the truth is, um, you know, the truth is that most doctors don’t (1:23:25) actually read more than the abstract of a study.(1:23:29) They don’t even look at the data or evidence in it, and they just pair it (1:23:33) back with the results of the study work. (1:23:36) And a lot of times recently, if you look at the data and evidence, um, it does (1:23:41) not actually support the conclusions that are in the study. (1:23:47) Um, and there is no reason why someone who has gone to whatever school or (1:23:52) whatever credentials is better at looking at data than anybody else.(1:23:57) But we have given up our right to have our own opinions, you know, (1:24:02) because we idolize the expert. (1:24:04) And it’s this is on both sides. (1:24:06) They’re just different experts, but it’s even worse.(1:24:10) I think about the social media, the funny thing about social media, the reason I (1:24:13) was laughing, it made me think, uh, it made me think of a Michael Recktenwald (1:24:17) tweet where someone, he makes this eloquent, brilliant statement and the (1:24:25) guy, and some guy writes back, read a book. (1:24:28) And then Mike’s like, write one. (1:24:30) And then I’m like, you mean write 12, man.(1:24:32) You know what I mean? (1:24:33) Like these people are so ignorant. (1:24:34) They don’t even know some of the people with whom they’re arguing and whatever. (1:24:38) It’s like, it’s become that kind of dumpster fire at times too, you know? (1:24:42) Yeah, it is.(1:24:43) Because without even that, well, they can’t, and here’s the thing that, you (1:24:48) know, that I, I point out to a lot of people is they can’t let one idea in. (1:24:56) The, the dissonance is so much, and it’s kind of like the thread on the sweater (1:25:01) that if you pull on it, the entire sweater collapses and, and in their (1:25:06) unconscious mind and their subconscious mind, they know that. (1:25:09) And so it gets fight or flight and it’s, you know, write, read a book, you (1:25:15) know, it’s going to be an insult.(1:25:16) It’s going to be a, what can I say to end the code, right? (1:25:20) It was like the learn to code of the left. (1:25:22) Yeah, exactly. (1:25:23) Exactly.(1:25:23) And so, you know, they, and what’s funny about that is AI took the coding (1:25:29) probably quicker than the other jobs of all the jobs that you could have taken. (1:25:33) Literally the coders created the thing that completely is going to take them (1:25:37) out of their, out of their own business. (1:25:39) I mean, it’s going to, it’s going to get rid of all jobs.(1:25:42) Oh yeah. (1:25:43) Yeah. (1:25:43) We know.(1:25:43) I’m just, it’s just one of the funny things that it’s like the first thing (1:25:45) it attacks is that people were saying, learn to code and like, wait, (1:25:49) that doesn’t even work, man. (1:25:50) No, it doesn’t. (1:25:51) You’re actually going before the truck drivers are, you know, sure.(1:25:54) I mean, you know, my previous profession lawyers, why would you need a lawyer (1:26:00) to write a contract if AI can write a contract, you know, and check the contract. (1:26:06) I saw Rep Massey. (1:26:07) Yeah.(1:26:07) Rep Massey was at the debt, but, uh, the was a debt, the debt badge, uh, counter. (1:26:11) He was telling that he did a chat GPT for, and he asked for it to write a bill. (1:26:17) And he said, even the, whereas is, and everything were in it.(1:26:20) Whereas, whereas he said it was so accurately written. (1:26:24) He could have just almost handed it in the way it was done. (1:26:27) Yeah.(1:26:28) And there’s a whole office called legislative council that writes (1:26:32) legislation that will no longer be needed. (1:26:34) Um, and, but you know, I will, but if we put the correct information in the front, (1:26:40) right, obviously, if we, if we lean the AI in a certain way, it’s going to go a (1:26:46) certain way, it has to make sure that it has enough of the information to find the (1:26:50) patterns, the best net positive pattern. (1:26:54) Correct.(1:26:54) And that was the point I was about to make, you know, legislative council, (1:26:58) the people that work there having worked there, they are not biased. (1:27:02) They write what the legislators tell them to write. (1:27:07) Um, AI, um, we’ve already seen with chat GPT and others that there was some (1:27:13) bias programming, um, in there.(1:27:16) And they fixed it. (1:27:17) I’ve seen an Asian Nazi, an Asian female Nazi. (1:27:20) It was very interesting.(1:27:21) It was (1:27:21) very interesting. (1:27:22) But so, and AI is a whole other topic that we could probably talk (1:27:27) about for a very long time. (1:27:29) But I, I think that, and now I forgot how we got on AI to be honest.(1:27:35) Um, (1:27:35) it’s, it’s totally okay. (1:27:37) If, if we may continue just because we’ve been talking, so I, and I’ve (1:27:40) been loving this conversation. (1:27:41) I can talk forever.(1:27:42) I want to be courteous of your time as well, but before we get off of this (1:27:47) other pieces, like what, what I’m finding that we’re, we’re both finding from both (1:27:50) ends, the corporate, you know, whatever, it’s kind of been a captured institution. (1:27:54) As we try to fix this, you are on a farm. (1:27:58) And I am self-reliance teaching people, self-reliance and getting away.(1:28:02) I’m actually trying to generate some revenue from this endeavor to find a, a (1:28:08) alternate place to which I can build while I’m still living urban in an urban (1:28:14) lifestyle, so I can get to a rural place and I’m trying to, you know, (1:28:18) toss, juggle everything. (1:28:19) And I think I’d love for you to talk about that before we then transition (1:28:23) into the libertarian expense, uh, experience with the convention, (1:28:26) if, if you’re okay with that. (1:28:27) Sure.(1:28:28) Yeah. (1:28:28) I mean, so after, um, after living at the RV for a little while, we decided (1:28:34) we weren’t going to stay there forever. (1:28:36) And the, and the lockdowns were kind of dragging on.(1:28:39) Um, and, um, when I went back to the city, I just didn’t want to be there anymore. (1:28:46) You know, the energy was terrible. (1:28:49) DC, um, during COVID was a dystopian nightmare, honestly.(1:28:55) Um, and I can relate this little story to you. (1:28:58) It, you know, it was July 4th. (1:29:01) Um, and, uh, what year? (1:29:04) 21, 20, um, 20, actually.(1:29:09) One. (1:29:09) Okay. (1:29:09) 20.(1:29:09) So, and you were like early, early fear, like early fear, but it was also during (1:29:18) the, the, you know, the, the summer of peace and, um, love, summer of love. (1:29:23) Yes. (1:29:24) And everything was locked down.(1:29:28) Every window was barricaded. (1:29:30) There were, there was a police officer and a, um, you know, light armored (1:29:36) vehicle on every corner in downtown. (1:29:38) And we decided to go down to the mall, you know, and just see what was going on.(1:29:43) Um, and there weren’t very many people there. (1:29:46) Um, so people listen, people were in DC, overwhelmingly (1:29:50) democratic, overwhelmingly scared. (1:29:52) Um, but there were hundreds of soldiers, police officers lining the mall and no (1:30:01) people, ghost town, I parked right next to, you know, the, the, the mall.(1:30:07) And normally on the 4th of July, you can’t even, you know, you (1:30:10) can’t even get on the metro. (1:30:12) Can’t even. (1:30:13) No, not at all because everybody’s off and everybody’s doing something.(1:30:16) Everybody’s active. (1:30:17) Yeah. (1:30:18) And so, and then, you know, DC was just a ghost town, but we managed to see a (1:30:26) couple of groups of what I can only assume were, um, heroin addicts on the street.(1:30:33) We watched a heroin deal go down on the street. (1:30:36) Um, the dealer walked up with a cop car sitting a half a block away. (1:30:40) It was just, and then, um, no, not really.(1:30:45) Okay. (1:30:46) Cause once again, we’re, we’re, let’s talk contrast, right? (1:30:48) Cause we, we, I’d love to see, cause you were there, you’ve been there for many (1:30:52) times, many years, and now you’re seeing this contrast of what it’s become (1:30:55) or what, what became of it. (1:30:58) I would say that, yes, there are neighborhoods in DC where you (1:31:01) could have seen that before.(1:31:02) Oh, yeah. (1:31:03) I know that DC has a route, just a block from white houses, like pretty (1:31:07) nasty neighborhoods I’ve heard. (1:31:09) Yeah.(1:31:09) I mean, this, I don’t, do you know DC at all? (1:31:12) They’re not really, I don’t know. (1:31:14) Well, I don’t know the geography and all that. (1:31:16) So you’re welcome to share it.(1:31:17) I just, I’m not familiar. (1:31:18) Unfortunately. (1:31:19) Yeah.(1:31:19) So what I would just say is the two places where we saw that were not (1:31:24) places I would have seen that before. (1:31:26) And at the second place where we saw a group of addicts, um, and you know, (1:31:32) half a block over was, uh, the DC, um, Metro police car, we also saw two (1:31:38) prostitutes picking up a job on the street in the middle of a family (1:31:41) neighborhood, not a bad neighborhood where we were going to have dinner. (1:31:47) So this was different, you know, and I will also say that you would, we would (1:31:52) see, um, tents everywhere that we did not see tent, you know, there’s always (1:31:57) been a homeless population and it’s always been really stark to me.(1:32:02) And that, you know, you walk out of a meeting or I would walk out of a (1:32:06) $1,000 plate fundraiser lunch and see homeless veterans on the street. (1:32:12) And this is not okay, you know, but it’s, it was just (1:32:16) heard the story about the building in Virginia or whatever that has like the (1:32:19) guys in the $3,000 suits that are all the military guys that are all just (1:32:24) like littered and they’re in the cafeteria and they’re all just chumming (1:32:27) together and they’re just swapping loads of cash for the night. (1:32:32) I know it’s, it sounds like reductionist, but it’s like, uh, it happens.(1:32:36) You know, it’s happening. (1:32:38) It is. (1:32:38) Yeah.(1:32:39) So we got back to DC and, you know, the experience with the (1:32:43) shutdowns of lack of supplies and, you know, I, and toilet paper. (1:32:50) Yes. (1:32:50) Well, and other things, you know, depending on where you are, when you (1:32:53) went and, but yes, the toilet paper shortage, you know, as a woman, I (1:32:57) cannot be without my toilet paper.(1:32:59) Um, but, uh, so, and, you know, the other thing is that, uh, when I did all (1:33:06) the research to try to help my mom, um, I really, I had started eating (1:33:11) organically as much as possible, lots of produce, and I said, (1:33:16) I want to grow my own food. (1:33:18) Um, I want to be able to be self-sufficient. (1:33:22) So if we stay in these lockdowns, I can go outside and I can breathe (1:33:28) fresh air and I can get vitamin D and, you know, I want to be able to (1:33:34) light a fire if, you know, if I need to, for warmth and pizza in a brick oven.(1:33:41) And all, yeah, all of those things. (1:33:43) And so, um, you know, I had planned, we had planned, I had planned to travel (1:33:47) around and, you know, maybe retired to a beach and instead I will say, I do (1:33:53) not ever say to anyone around here that I’m retired because having a (1:33:57) farm is not retirement in any way, shape or form, um, and we, we found, (1:34:04) we found this great place, you know, and it had been in the same (1:34:08) family owned it for 45 years. (1:34:11) Uh, we’re not certified organic, but grew organically for 45 years.(1:34:17) But you’re doing it for yourself, right? (1:34:18) Yeah. (1:34:19) So, um, and so we, we moved here and it’s been, um, amazing. (1:34:25) You like, I was in my garden today and, um, I have hundreds of tomatoes that are (1:34:31) just about to start really ripening.(1:34:34) And I, there’s nothing like a tomato sandwich. (1:34:37) You grew yourself the tomatoes. (1:34:39) You made.(1:34:39) Got to put a smile on your, on your face. (1:34:42) It does. (1:34:42) Yeah.(1:34:43) You know, you get to enjoy the fruits of your, of your labor. (1:34:46) So, um, you know, we were, we have chickens, so we have eggs and, um, we’re (1:34:53) raising them all year. (1:34:53) Do you have meat chickens too or no? (1:34:55) Um, we have chickens that could be dual purpose, but right now.(1:35:01) Yeah. (1:35:01) Cause I know there’s different kinds, so I just, I’m kind of sharing it more (1:35:05) for the audience, like that people don’t even know that there’s different (1:35:07) kinds of chickens, literally that they’re egg chickens and meat chickens. (1:35:11) Yeah.(1:35:12) So for the audience, I was shocked. (1:35:14) I bought a couple of books and started reading and there are (1:35:17) hundreds of breeds of chickens. (1:35:18) The ones, the eggs and the meat that you get at the store are literally like (1:35:24) one breed that most industrial farm farming uses.(1:35:29) Um, and you have to pick what characteristics you want for the chickens. (1:35:32) Like, do you care what color eggs? (1:35:34) Because there are all sorts of colored eggs. (1:35:37) Uh, we have three breeds of chickens.(1:35:40) One, um, is not really a meat chicken. (1:35:43) Um, and, but they lay blue eggs and I wanted some sky blue eggs. (1:35:48) So we have that.(1:35:49) Um, and they lay consistently. (1:35:51) They are good layers, you know, um, and they’re smaller. (1:35:55) So they eat less.(1:35:57) More like quail, like not, not quail size, but, but almost in that (1:36:00) bluish quail-ish color, but not, you know, a robin’s egg. (1:36:04) They’re normal size eggs, but they were probably medium. (1:36:08) Uh, then the other chickens that I have lay larger, extra large eggs.(1:36:13) And those are what could be meat chickens also. (1:36:16) Um, and so we also have roosters, um, and you don’t have to have roosters just (1:36:23) so you know, to get your chickens to lay eggs, the only reason you need a (1:36:29) rooster is if you want to make more chickens. (1:36:31) Um, and also it is hens that you’re eating.(1:36:34) And they’re social though too. (1:36:34) I heard they’re really protective and really social roosters. (1:36:37) Uh, they are very protective.(1:36:39) Uh, sometimes they are not very nice to people because they are (1:36:44) protective against people as well. (1:36:47) Um, so they are protective. (1:36:48) So if you want to, you know, uh, free range your chickens, a (1:36:52) rooster can help protect your hens.(1:36:54) Uh, we don’t free range. (1:36:56) We have like a system of runs and things for them because (1:36:59) we have a lot of animals. (1:37:01) Uh, we have tons of hawks.(1:37:03) We have fox, we have coyote, um, not, we’ve never seen a bear around. (1:37:10) Um, so, you know, we have them in protected and actually one of your (1:37:16) worst, um, enemies for chickens are dogs. (1:37:19) Um, and in fact, they’re basically wolves.(1:37:23) I mean, they’re wolves genetically. (1:37:26) So it’s, you know, it’s in there. (1:37:28) It’s in there.(1:37:29) And if a chicken runs, if anything runs, your dog is going to chase it. (1:37:33) So, um, but so you can’t have chickens without them being loud, you know? (1:37:39) And so a lot of people can have chickens and check your local urban regulations. (1:37:44) If you do happen to have a yard, you can even have chickens in (1:37:48) many cities, as long as you don’t.(1:37:50) Might need to be 20 feet from my domicile or something. (1:37:53) So it doesn’t fit because it won’t fit just in my neighborhood currently, for (1:37:57) example, so I can’t get myself a flux capacitor, unfortunately, but it was funny. (1:38:03) I was talking, I was laughing about your farm, Joe, uh, the farm thing, (1:38:05) because my, my aunt and uncle owned a dairy farm in Pennsylvania.(1:38:09) And they had probably about 200 Jersey cows and they sold it for Swiss cheese, (1:38:15) I believe was what they sold the milk for. (1:38:17) And I remember going there in the summers and doing all the chores and (1:38:21) having to feed the calves and this, and I remember coming and plopping down one (1:38:24) time and I was like such a, I was a kid and I’m like, next time I’m coming as a (1:38:29) guest, it’s just like those moments of just like, I remember my uncle just (1:38:34) falling asleep, taking naps for two hours at a time, just so he could get up (1:38:37) and because he had to do something at this time, had to be done. (1:38:41) And if not the entire chain of that thing could completely collapses, you know? (1:38:45) Yeah, I mean, farming is hard work, you know? (1:38:49) And I think, um, people are so disconnected from their food and where it (1:38:57) comes from and so that, um, you know, coming out here, we made a lot of (1:39:03) friends and neighbors and they’re some of the hardest working people I have (1:39:08) ever, ever met, you know, I’ll say something else about self-reliance.(1:39:12) And I think people really need to think about this. (1:39:15) Um, at least, you know, my experience in the city, I, my dad raised me to be a (1:39:21) pretty independent woman, taught me how to use a drill, hang things, change a (1:39:28) tire, and I have changed tire on my car. (1:39:31) Make sure all your fluids are topped off.(1:39:34) By living in the city, I started to stop doing things for myself. (1:39:37) I paid people to do just about everything for me. (1:39:41) Um, you know, I didn’t forget how to change- (1:39:43) And you were discouraged by your HOA to change your oil in your driveway also.(1:39:47) It was, there were also outside forces too. (1:39:49) And next thing you know, you’re paying 80 bucks for an oil change that used to cost 25. (1:39:53) Yeah.(1:39:54) So, and you’re, you know, it is someone’s job, so there is that. (1:39:57) But, but my point is, you know, um, what would most people who live in the city (1:40:04) do if all their apps stop working? (1:40:08) If they can’t call someone to fix the toilet or, you know, anything like that. (1:40:15) When you come out to the country, like nobody does anything for you.(1:40:20) And, um, most people do everything themselves, you know, to the point that (1:40:26) we don’t have garbage collection here. (1:40:28) We take our garbage to a, um, a landfill or dump. (1:40:33) I mean, we have a county, main county dump, but then it’s a large- (1:40:38) Right, but once again, you let, you let it, you let it handle on yourself.(1:40:42) And I guarantee if it starts piling up, one of your neighbors is going to be (1:40:45) quickly knocking on your door going, get your shit out of here. (1:40:48) I hate to say it that way, but that’s kind of how, that’s how it works. (1:40:51) That’s where the, that’s where that self-reliance, the accountability comes in.(1:40:54) These people who, these people who think government is the one who does the (1:40:59) regulating or who’s the one in control of us, no, we are in control of us as a (1:41:04) community, we, there’s checks and balances up and down that, because (1:41:08) your word is your reputation. (1:41:10) The reason, I mean, we look at some of the Eastern philosophies. (1:41:13) The reason it doesn’t work with the West is because of the way (1:41:16) we do the stuff in the West.(1:41:18) East was all about your word as good as your bond. (1:41:20) That’s why it literally, it was your death. (1:41:22) If you got expelled from the tribe because you got out of line, (1:41:26) you didn’t exist anymore.(1:41:27) That’s how it was. (1:41:29) And there’s a, there’s a certain beauty to watching a community (1:41:33) dig themselves out of a snowstorm. (1:41:36) While another community sits at a stadium while water’s coming up (1:41:41) going, who’s going to rescue us? (1:41:43) I have a snowstorm story for you, Mark.(1:41:48) Oh, I’d love for you to share it. (1:41:50) Yeah. (1:41:50) Yeah.(1:41:50) We’ve only had one snow. (1:41:52) We got about 14 inches, you know, but it came pretty quickly. (1:41:56) So, and our neighbor across the street, she was pregnant.(1:42:03) So, we have a tractor that is four wheel drive and it has a closed cab. (1:42:11) So you can have heat. (1:42:13) And so my fiance got in the tractor and went driving around and, met (1:42:19) our neighbor out there who was in a four wheel drive truck.(1:42:22) And so there was a tree that had fallen down across the road. (1:42:29) And the neighbor got out, had his chainsaw with him. (1:42:33) He cut the tree with the chainsaw and my fiance moved the tree out of the (1:42:38) road and used the bucket to help clear the snow so that people could get in (1:42:44) and out of our road, you know, in case of an emergency and especially in (1:42:49) case our neighbor went into labor, but that’s the way that was that a Democrat (1:42:53) or Republican road, which, what kind of road was that? (1:42:56) And what kind of, what kind of ideology did your neighbors have again? (1:42:59) I’m sorry.(1:42:59) What do you believe in matter? (1:43:01) We don’t care. (1:43:03) People don’t care for human, human ideology. (1:43:11) I just had to, I want to stress that point.(1:43:13) I just want to stress that point. (1:43:15) 100%. (1:43:15) We, and we want to, we don’t care.(1:43:17) You know it, it, and that’s the thing I was going to say to, you know, to your (1:43:22) example of your neighbor holding you accountable if your garbage starts piling (1:43:26) up if it was like, if you just moved in and your garbage was piling up, your (1:43:32) neighbor here would come and talk to you. (1:43:34) If you had been here a while and you’re, you had been dealing with your garbage (1:43:37) and then your garbage started piling up, your neighbor would come and (1:43:40) ask you if everything was okay. (1:43:42) Like they wouldn’t come from a place of compassion, correct? (1:43:48) Absolutely.(1:43:48) That changes the content, right? (1:43:51) Context changes the content. (1:43:52) It totally does. (1:43:53) Yeah.(1:43:53) And I mean, when we moved out of here, you know, that’s a beautiful statement, by the (1:43:57) way, that is a beautiful way to say that. (1:43:59) Thank you. (1:44:00) And it’s true.(1:44:02) It’s what we found here. (1:44:03) Like we had ordered something to be delivered and they sent us the wrong (1:44:07) stand for it. (1:44:10) And also they were sending us the wrong one.(1:44:14) When they came to install it, they said, you know, this would be really better (1:44:17) horizontal instead of vertical. (1:44:19) It would be more stable, but we don’t have the stand for it. (1:44:24) And right next to it was a pile of wood.(1:44:27) And they said, hey, do you have a couple of tools we could use? (1:44:29) We’ll build you the stand. (1:44:30) They didn’t charge us anything for it. (1:44:32) They built us a stand out of our wood.(1:44:35) Can you imagine some contractor or delivery person in the city doing that? (1:44:40) No. (1:44:41) They blame the shipping guy for sending the wrong thing or something. (1:44:45) They’d find somebody to blame.(1:44:46) They’d ship. (1:44:47) But no, they call the customer service recorded hotline. (1:44:52) They would have.(1:44:53) Yeah. (1:44:53) And guess what? (1:44:54) They didn’t ask us what our politics were. (1:44:56) You know, they didn’t ask us any of that because they felt it was right.(1:45:00) They did what they felt was right. (1:45:02) Exactly. (1:45:03) You know? (1:45:03) And so I, I think, you know, I love it out here.(1:45:09) It’s a huge adjustment. (1:45:11) Um, but, and there are days when I hate it, you know, when I, that’s why it’s (1:45:18) called a passion, by the way, what you’re willing to struggle through to get to (1:45:22) tomorrow, because it’s not just about what you like, it’s literally struggle. (1:45:26) Passion is about struggle.(1:45:28) And, you know, I think one other thing I will say is that we have gotten so (1:45:35) used to comfort, like that to motivate us. (1:45:38) We want what is comfortable. (1:45:41) What is easy? (1:45:42) You know, we don’t like, we want all of our appliances to be smart.(1:45:46) So we don’t have to remember we need milk. (1:45:49) It’ll tell us we’re out of milk. (1:45:51) Path of least resistance, right? (1:45:52) The dryer is, is done.(1:45:54) It’ll send me a notification on my phone. (1:45:57) All of these things for our comfort. (1:46:01) And, you know, there isn’t a lot of growth and there isn’t (1:46:05) a lot of passion in comfort.(1:46:07) It’s just comfortable. (1:46:09) Um, and so like coming out here and, and I want to be very honest about it. (1:46:15) It’s been a struggle for me to keep the passion and to keep that.(1:46:20) Um, and to, you know, not get overwhelmed by the fact that I, I couldn’t wake up (1:46:28) at work till I go to bed and not check a single item off my list of things that (1:46:34) need to be done because I am doing everything that just needs to be done (1:46:38) all the time and that is overwhelming sometimes, and it’s a very big (1:46:44) adjustment for someone who was a member of the quote unquote elite, you know, (1:46:49) in a city where everything got done for me to then, you know, admit I was (1:46:56) wrong about everything and then come out here and, um, and work, you actually (1:47:03) do hard physical work that I haven’t done for a very long time before I can. (1:47:11) Well, you, you weren’t wrong about everything because you (1:47:14) were right about taking a look. (1:47:18) So before I did that little credit, right? (1:47:21) Well, I know, but we all learn, right? (1:47:24) We do, we do.(1:47:26) And I tend to be quite hard on myself, Mark, you know, that is (1:47:29) sort of, we should be, that’s what drives us to be better, right? (1:47:32) Really to be, to be honest, that’s what drives generally, you know, excel, uh, (1:47:37) people who excel or people who, who, you know, strive, I think. (1:47:40) Yeah, I think that’s probably true. (1:47:42) And I think that maybe that is part of why I also was kind of going (1:47:46) ready to be done with what I was doing.(1:47:48) It was, uh, very formulaic almost. (1:47:52) Like I knew every meeting, if they’re on this side of the aisle, this (1:47:55) is what I’m going to talk about. (1:47:56) And, um, I’m going to walk away with no better off than I went, but (1:48:01) I have to go to these meetings.(1:48:03) Or I, this side of the aisle, I’m already on the same page with them (1:48:07) and we’ll strategize or I’ll give them facts or what have you, but I never (1:48:12) thought I could accomplish anything. (1:48:14) So why strive, why work harder? (1:48:17) If you know outcomes before you get everything and it’s all we get it (1:48:23) politics and money, you know, follow the money. (1:48:26) Yeah.(1:48:26) And that’s why we’re talking about like the policies over the politics, right? (1:48:30) It’s like, look, why can’t we take this one good idea? (1:48:32) Like we mentioned, Andrew Yang has won a good idea. (1:48:34) Robert Kennedy has one good idea. (1:48:36) Trump has one good idea.(1:48:38) Biden has an idea, but he forgot it. (1:48:41) It’s okay. (1:48:42) Maybe camel’s got, maybe camel’s got one.(1:48:44) Maybe. (1:48:45) I mean, she, she has a hearty laugh. (1:48:47) I will give her that it is already from it, from the diaphragm.(1:48:51) It’s really, really haughty. (1:48:52) It’s good. (1:48:55) Well, if we can hear the idea in between the laughs, maybe we can (1:48:59) figure out what her good idea is.(1:49:02) Oh, the wheels on the bus go round and round. (1:49:04) That’s well, they do. (1:49:05) But you know, yesterday’s tomorrow is today’s yesterday.(1:49:13) So could we, could we transition if, if you do have time to share your (1:49:18) experience with the Libertarian convention, because I’ll we’ll talk (1:49:22) offline, but I’d love to hear your side because I had a horse in the (1:49:27) race and I watched it live online. (1:49:29) I was not there. (1:49:30) So please share me your experiences with, with what happened or your.(1:49:36) I decided to go to the Libertarian convention because I was (1:49:39) you know, as a classical liberal, I, I’m not, I don’t know that I’ll ever (1:49:43) join another political party unless we, we all decide to form one that’s (1:49:48) different, you know, that doesn’t, it’s like, you know what, we’re, we’re (1:49:51) finding ourselves to be a tribe of the tribalist and that’s like an impossibility. (1:49:54) It’s like the Libertarians literally argue about being more (1:49:58) Libertarian than the other person. (1:49:59) So there’s, it’s almost, there’s no cohesion because of that.(1:50:03) Almost devout independence, but we can come together as that (1:50:08) concept to say, we will fight together for that. (1:50:12) So we can quibble amongst each other in a way. (1:50:15) Yeah.(1:50:15) Um, so I thought I might find people of like minds and people who might be (1:50:22) really interested to hear what I had to say, um, at the Libertarian convention. (1:50:26) It just so happened that my book was published on May 25th, which was the (1:50:31) Saturday of the Libertarian convention. (1:50:33) So I thought this is a perfect, you know, sort of self book launch that (1:50:38) launching pad in a way.(1:50:39) Yeah, exactly. (1:50:41) Um, and so I went and I had a table, um, you know, out, uh, so I didn’t (1:50:47) actually go into much of the meeting. (1:50:50) So I just want to preface with that.(1:50:53) Yeah. (1:50:53) Yeah. (1:50:53) No, no worries.(1:50:54) Like I said, just any takeaway, any, you know, like I said, your (1:50:56) experience is more than, you know. (1:50:58) So I had great conversations, um, Libertarian candidates that were there (1:51:03) were extremely open to talk, hearing from me about what, how I thought they (1:51:07) might be able to reach some of the more, um, left-leaning members of their (1:51:12) districts or states, depending on what they were running for. (1:51:16) Um, and I had some great conversations and I had one guy, one candidate tell (1:51:20) me, you know what, I need to rethink my campaign.(1:51:23) I think you may have just helped me get a lot of votes. (1:51:25) So, you know, just in terms of how he was trying to approach, he was in a (1:51:29) pretty, um, left-leaning district. (1:51:32) So I think he may, you know, I, I wished him the best of luck because I don’t know (1:51:37) how many he could persuade at that stage, um, of, of the game, but it (1:51:43) definitely was great conversations.(1:51:46) Um, and I think, you know, what I saw right away in talking to people on just (1:51:52) sort of how it was, I definitely saw sort of the fractures in the Libertarian (1:51:57) parties, sort of the different camps, you know, literally 51 49. (1:52:02) It is so like razor thin. (1:52:05) And I thought the tipping point happened this year.(1:52:08) And we’ll talk about that, but please, please continue. (1:52:10) But it’s like your point. (1:52:12) It is right there.(1:52:14) Yeah. (1:52:14) And I, you know, I think, I think that there were some interest, like one (1:52:20) divide that I saw that I think is pretty challenging in terms of how you (1:52:25) message in today’s situation is the distinction between those who believe, (1:52:34) um, that we shouldn’t have any national borders. (1:52:38) Um, and those, we got two big ones, the open border one.(1:52:42) Yeah. (1:52:42) And then obviously with the current Libertarian presidential nominee, (1:52:47) his children, the thing with children. (1:52:49) Yeah.(1:52:50) And so for lack of a better term, I don’t know what else to say about it. (1:52:54) Well, yeah, I think that second one, you know, so I don’t know. (1:52:59) I will tell you that, um, uh, the current nominees table in the exhibit (1:53:06) or the area was right across from mine.(1:53:09) And so I was kind of watching that whole thing and based on how everything was (1:53:14) going throughout, I was shocked when I saw what the final vote was because (1:53:20) I left before the final vote. (1:53:21) I, it did not look at all through the weekend. (1:53:25) Like it was going to go the way that it did.(1:53:29) Um, so I, and I, you know, it wasn’t, like I said, it wasn’t in the room a lot. (1:53:35) I did go in and watch Robert F. (1:53:37) Kennedy Jr. (1:53:38) speech and Trump speech. (1:53:40) But you watch Robert F. (1:53:42) Kennedy there and you watch him at Freedom Fest before we continue there.(1:53:46) Let, could you share a little bit about that experience, those two speeches (1:53:49) that you’re experienced with him and the Trump speech, share a little bit about that. (1:53:52) Yeah, so very different speeches, very different speeches from, um, RFK Jr. (1:53:59) Um, you know, like his speeches, his speeches were both really good. (1:54:04) I thought, um, he’s good when he’s doesn’t have any counters.(1:54:09) I’m not going to lie. (1:54:10) He speaks well. (1:54:11) He speaks really well.(1:54:13) You know, he was really, basically what he did at the Libertarian (1:54:16) Convention was start from, you know, a place about freedom and liberty and our (1:54:23) rights, and then proceeded to tell how both Biden and Trump, um, and especially (1:54:30) Trump as it related to COVID did not protect our rights, you know, and how he (1:54:35) would, and, um, I think it was a, it was pretty well received speech. (1:54:41) Um, and I think there were quite a few, so Kennedy had a table there also, and he, (1:54:50) um, had a lot of supporters, I think, in the audience, um, that. (1:54:55) Yeah, there was a, there was a good contingent of Libertarians.(1:54:58) Cause there’s a, there’s a good contingent of Libertarians that are (1:55:00) ex-liberals or whatever that’s called. (1:55:03) Uh, it’s a little more rare on the, well, there are conservative Libertarians as (1:55:08) well, but they’re not really Republicans. (1:55:09) But you have lost a lot of the trad, you know, we call it trad Democrat to your (1:55:14) point, that classical Democrat, that’s a little more Libertarian.(1:55:18) Yeah, I would say that’s really true. (1:55:21) So, you know, he got a pretty warm reception and, you know, he, um, he (1:55:30) talked about, you know, he hit some topics and I’m trying to remember exactly (1:55:35) what they were that were designed to definitely, you know, show he was going (1:55:39) to have some of the Libertarian, um, priorities, you know, uh, protected in (1:55:45) his, yeah, definitely talked about the state and the transparency and things (1:55:49) like that, certainly Freedom Fest, I remember. (1:55:52) Um, and well, uh, so that was like sort of a difference I would say with Freedom (1:55:57) Fest, he definitely wasn’t talking about a unity government in the same way at (1:56:02) Libertarian national convention that he did at Freedom Fest.(1:56:06) Oh, see, I took away his, see, this is where I took away from the Liberty, the (1:56:11) Freedom Fest one was he it’s like, this is the problem with the government part (1:56:16) is yes, he wants to use government to attack the bad part of government. (1:56:21) Okay. (1:56:21) Sure.(1:56:22) Fine. (1:56:22) Under your watch, you’re going to do it good. (1:56:24) Okay.(1:56:25) Sure. (1:56:25) But you’re only got at most eight years, if that, and if you don’t got eight years, (1:56:30) you might get four, if that, and when the next person’s going to take those same (1:56:34) powers and wield it in their good way, but that good way is not our good way. (1:56:39) And the best answer is to remove the powers as much as possible, not make (1:56:44) greater powers to attack the current ones in existence, and I think people (1:56:48) never make that, that thing.(1:56:51) Cause Kennedy sounds like a great person. (1:56:54) He sounds like a nice, compassionate man. (1:56:56) And I don’t disagree when he looks you in the eye and he tells you he cares.(1:57:00) Absolutely. (1:57:01) The style of government is not the issue. (1:57:05) It’s the size of the government.(1:57:06) That’s the issue. (1:57:07) And the power of the government. (1:57:09) I mean, that really is that power, right? (1:57:11) The administrative, you can’t, you have to untangle that.(1:57:13) Right. (1:57:14) You totally do. (1:57:15) And you know, I think, um, it, it, and it kind of like, I, I worry about AI, you (1:57:23) know, I do, I worry, uh, and I, I’m not really, I don’t worry about much, but I (1:57:28) have concerns about, um, once again, a tool that’s going to be misused for sure.(1:57:34) Is it going to eventually decide that it’s more important than we are and it (1:57:39) isn’t going to really, you know, I mean, I guess I’ve watched a lot of sci-fi way (1:57:44) back to, I don’t know, Lisa, I would draw the conclusion that we are the problems (1:57:49) that we try to solve in the world. (1:57:52) I’m not kidding. (1:57:53) It doesn’t, it won’t take long for at least that one of those conclusions to come (1:57:58) out.(1:57:58) That’s not, I mean, when you look at just pollution, not, not, not, you know, (1:58:02) climate, all that, just general pollution, like lead gasoline, just what we did with (1:58:06) leaded gasoline until the EP until that was taken out of the, out of the equation. (1:58:11) We still use 110 low lead for aircraft. (1:58:14) And it’s got like five times more lead than our 87 octane add.(1:58:18) It’s like what it’s low lead. (1:58:20) And so like, once again, I don’t want to get off track. (1:58:23) I’m just saying that’s an honest conversation.(1:58:25) I looks at that and goes, that’s not good. (1:58:29) The plastic Island, not a good thing. (1:58:31) Right.(1:58:31) For example. (1:58:32) No, no. (1:58:33) And you’re right.(1:58:34) So, but like every movie and book that has ever been written about this tells us the (1:58:41) same story and it doesn’t end well for humanity, you know, whether you want to (1:58:46) look at war games way back from the eighties or the matrix to play a game. (1:58:51) Yeah. (1:58:52) Would you like to play a game? (1:58:53) Um, all the way, uh, you know, to terminator, all of them.(1:59:00) Oh yeah. (1:59:01) Terminator. (1:59:01) I mean, Saturn five, Saturn five in the seventies.(1:59:05) I mean, was an AI robot. (1:59:07) I think that went rogue or something. (1:59:08) Oh yeah.(1:59:08) And, um, 2001, a space, Westworld, Westworld. (1:59:12) Yeah. (1:59:13) 2001.(1:59:13) I mean, that was 69. (1:59:15) Yeah. (1:59:15) That would probably be it.(1:59:16) So we’ve been, this story is, you know, so when he talked about like, um, I mean, I (1:59:22) guess having government try to control AI would be better than not having anybody (1:59:27) trying to control AI, but maybe we need to step back and ask a question just because (1:59:33) we can. (1:59:34) Does it, does that mean we should, and just because someone can, you know, and that (1:59:39) goes against sort of liberty ideas. (1:59:42) And so it goes against that science thing.(1:59:44) Cause science doesn’t really include ethics. (1:59:47) Science is, you know, the atom bomb. (1:59:49) We didn’t consider what we did.(1:59:51) We considered if we could, we didn’t consider what we’re going to do with it. (1:59:55) We’re just like, can we figure it out? (1:59:56) I mean, it was all about the quest for knowledge. (1:59:59) Right.(1:59:59) And information. (2:00:01) And, and so while I support that, I also think we need to be somewhat (2:00:05) cautious about that. (2:00:07) Absolutely.(2:00:08) That’s the, that’s the rub, right? (2:00:09) That’s the balance that we have to dance in that way. (2:00:12) And the reality, this is reality. (2:00:13) This isn’t utopian, you know, one way and, and Kapistan, right? (2:00:18) Exactly.(2:00:18) No. (2:00:18) And we are not, we are not, I think at this moment being as (2:00:22) cautious as we need to be about AI. (2:00:25) I just, I think so.(2:00:28) Um, so that was interesting about his speech at Freedom Fest. (2:00:32) So we’ll say that, you know, Trump did not get a warm reception at (2:00:37) the Libertarian National Convention. (2:00:38) It was very, very, um, antagonistic in the room.(2:00:43) Um, yeah. (2:00:46) And, you know, I mean, I understand to some extent. (2:00:50) Um, but I also think that.(2:00:54) Uh, you know, I will say this, um, because I agree with you a hundred (2:00:58) percent, there are a lot of things I agree with Kennedy about. (2:01:02) Um, and if he didn’t believe government can still be the answer. (2:01:06) And if he didn’t believe that climate denier should be locked up at some (2:01:13) point in his past, I could see myself supporting him, you know, but those (2:01:18) are kind of some threshold issues for me.(2:01:20) And, and is I have to raise my hand by Israel personally. (2:01:24) Yeah. (2:01:24) I, and I, I, I can see you there too.(2:01:27) Um, I mean, he’s so well and eloquent. (2:01:31) He can go back a hundred, 200 years on Ukraine, Russia. (2:01:34) He can speak so well because he’s on the other side of that.(2:01:38) He can speak so well on that as a lawyer and dissect the, the (2:01:43) conflict from decades and centuries conflict yet. (2:01:47) He can’t do that for Gaza, Israel. (2:01:49) He just says, Palestine pamper.(2:01:51) Got it. (2:01:52) You know, we got to, it’s like, Whoa, where it’s, it’s, it’s a dissonance to me. (2:01:55) Like to me, I don’t see those are two completely separate individuals running (2:02:00) for the same office in my, in my opinion.(2:02:02) Yeah, I understand. (2:02:04) Um, I need to say that. (2:02:07) I just had to question it.(2:02:08) You know, I just have to question it, I guess for me. (2:02:10) And that’s fair. (2:02:11) I mean, another button on my table is question everything.(2:02:15) And if it doesn’t make sense, ask why and, you know, figure it out. (2:02:19) And maybe there’s a reason. (2:02:20) And maybe he has a reason that he could, if you could sit down with him for two (2:02:24) hours, he could explain it to you, Mark.(2:02:25) I don’t know. (2:02:26) Um, but I’ve given him that opportunity. (2:02:28) I’ve watched many, not, not once again, this is one, but however, I’m look, (2:02:32) I’m, I’m also policy driven, right? (2:02:35) His, his COVID stuff.(2:02:37) Dead on his vaccine stuff, dead on his EPA stuff. (2:02:41) Is definitely in the right direction. (2:02:43) Certainly in some kind of way we have, there has to be something (2:02:46) at least done with pollution.(2:02:49) I would get, we we’re doing something right. (2:02:51) The, the, the climate agenda part, we got to back off of that. (2:02:55) I’m not sure as to a stance.(2:02:57) Cause I don’t think, I don’t, I’m still a little bit on that one. (2:03:01) Cause we need that to protect our one a, I mean, two protects one. (2:03:04) There is, it is the last way for us to be able to speak freely is to protect it.(2:03:11) Not to use it to protect. (2:03:13) I a hundred percent agree with you. (2:03:16) I, I would say that there were three amendments that have kept us as free as (2:03:20) we’ve been, and we can argue about what the extent of that actually is, but number (2:03:25) one, number two, and number four.(2:03:28) And we effectively lost number four when the Patriot just lost number. (2:03:33) Right. (2:03:34) I don’t know what you write section seven Oh two is they, you don’t even (2:03:37) know what warrants a spy on us, right? (2:03:39) Yeah.(2:03:39) I mean, but Edward Snowden told us that they, they didn’t before either. (2:03:44) I mean, the total information awareness program was spying on us. (2:03:48) And now, I mean, but I will also say that.(2:03:54) Um, when nine 11 happened and the transportation security act passed and (2:04:00) the transportation security administration was created, we get searched (2:04:04) without a warrant anytime we fly. (2:04:06) That is a, you know, the fourth amendment and that’s just yanked away from us. (2:04:11) Yeah, it was, it started during the war on drugs.(2:04:14) They started chipping away at it with exceptions to the warrant (2:04:18) requirement for the one where our CIA was selling drugs in Compton to fund (2:04:27) Nicaragua, like it’s just all this weird. (2:04:30) Like once it all breaks apart, Lisa, my head, the cognitive dissonance. (2:04:35) Once again, I’m a neocon.(2:04:37) I had a t-shirt. (2:04:38) Hey, Saddam, this scuds for you. (2:04:40) Iraq broke me.(2:04:41) Absolutely broke me. (2:04:43) WMDs and all that. (2:04:45) Watching Colin Powell just lie in front of the UN and knowingly and watching him (2:04:51) like crumble as his consciousness ate himself and he couldn’t live with the (2:04:57) fact that he did that and a million and a half people die, I mean, it’s just, (2:05:02) I, it’s like unconscionable that my, my mother and father escaped Germany.(2:05:08) They were born in 40 and 44. (2:05:12) This is like, my mom escaped East Germany in 53. (2:05:15) They came here in 55.(2:05:16) So my mom lived under hit, was born under Hitler, lived under Stalin (2:05:20) and was, and came here under Eisenhower. (2:05:23) There are very few people who have this beautiful, amazing journey. (2:05:28) And I’m still blessed to be here and to watch her defend what they are no (2:05:33) longer defending, like the side that used to defend that, to be honest.(2:05:37) And I think the conservatives, I’d hate, at least they held traditional (2:05:41) little bit more, you know, in that way. (2:05:44) Watching that crumble. (2:05:45) They’re just, it’s just a, what’s that controlled opposition.(2:05:48) Now it’s just slowing down the crumbling, you know, and I, and I, I’m (2:05:52) trying to stay not black pill here. (2:05:55) It’s gray, but I’m, I’m trying to find hope. (2:05:57) And when I come across people like yourself, it just brings me inspiration.(2:06:01) So thank you for sharing that time with me. (2:06:04) Oh, sure. (2:06:05) Yeah.(2:06:05) And, um, I do my best, you know, I, I was black for quite a while. (2:06:12) Um, but I, I do have both. (2:06:14) I, I think people are waking up.(2:06:16) People are starting to push back. (2:06:18) People are starting to reclaim their minds. (2:06:21) They are starting to say, you know what? (2:06:23) I am going to say that a man is a man and a woman is a woman.(2:06:28) You can do whatever you want to your body, but how dare you (2:06:32) tell my child anything different? (2:06:34) How dare you? (2:06:35) And they’re running for school board and they’re, you know, doing. (2:06:39) There are people I think have been pushed to a point where many people (2:06:42) are waking up and taking a stand. (2:06:44) And, you know, um, I, that’s what motivated me to write the book because (2:06:49) I thought this is something I can do to help other people wake up or help.(2:06:55) And it’s going to happen one person at a time. (2:06:59) And I think it is. (2:07:00) And I think I do my best to stay optimistic and I do my best to (2:07:07) disconnect from this technology every day, get outside and reconnect (2:07:12) with nature and reconnect with my fellow human beings to remember why it is.(2:07:20) Our constitution is important and our amendments are important. (2:07:25) And remembering that, you know, freedom does not come free. (2:07:28) We have to fight for it right now.(2:07:31) We’re in an information war and it’s an information war for our souls. (2:07:35) So we got to speak up. (2:07:37) Everybody has to do the best they can to speak up so that more people (2:07:41) wake up and more people speak up.(2:07:43) We, the people have the power, Mark, we just have to take it back. (2:07:47) We do. (2:07:48) We really do.(2:07:48) And I really appreciate your time. (2:07:50) And if you have, I’m, I’m enjoying the conversation I’ve got all night. (2:07:54) I, I’ve had four hour conversations.(2:07:56) So we’re two hours in. (2:07:58) If you want to, if you have anything you’d want to share about or anything (2:08:01) you’d like to talk about, we’re, we’re here. (2:08:03) The floor is certainly yours.(2:08:05) Okay. (2:08:05) Well, I can, I can share a little bit more. (2:08:08) Um, but, uh, you’re going to laugh, but I do have to go close the (2:08:11) chicken coops at some point.(2:08:13) Okay. (2:08:14) Well, we can, let’s call, let’s call it a day here. (2:08:17) We’ll have another conversation for sure.(2:08:19) I mean, yeah, I think, um, you know, if you don’t mind, I’ll just (2:08:22) give a shout out for the book and then I would love to come and talk to you (2:08:26) again and we can kind of figure out, you know, maybe we can chat ahead of ahead (2:08:32) of time and have some topics and we can do a deep dive into some of the (2:08:36) things we already talked about. (2:08:37) Um, you know, I’d love to talk about, um, media bias, for example. (2:08:42) I think that’s something people could have some really good examples in my book.(2:08:46) Um, one, I think, you know, the coverage of gun violence in this country. (2:08:51) Um, and like 56 to 59% are suicide and, you know, the percentage that are handgun (2:08:58) violence, for example, versus the AR 15 that we’re trying to get rid of. (2:09:03) Uh, yeah.(2:09:03) And, um, what the vast majority of, um, uh, homicides are and who’s (2:09:10) committing them against whom. (2:09:11) And, you know, what I really, a lot of this comes down to, whether it be the (2:09:16) trans, uh, the gender ideology stuff, gun violence, we have a serious mental (2:09:23) health crisis in this country. (2:09:26) You know, nobody, I don’t, you know, I don’t like with all due respect to all (2:09:30) of my friends and colleagues in the, um, in the, um, psychiatric advocacy space.(2:09:40) Nobody who is saying walks into a room and shoots people they don’t know. (2:09:45) No, they’re, they’re having a mental health issue. (2:09:49) And then our eyes are starting to become, they’re starting to correlate that, right.(2:09:53) With the, with the incorrect direction that we’re take, we took that medication (2:09:56) from another industry that pushed it through, through one study again. (2:10:03) Yeah. (2:10:05) No, you’re, you’re a hundred percent right.(2:10:08) Quietly during COVID, uh, the studies came out that depression is not related to (2:10:14) serotonin, so these SSRIs do not do anything to correct depression. (2:10:21) Can you share what an SSRI is a little bit, uh, Lisa, just for the general (2:10:25) audience, cause so it’s an inhibitor, right? (2:10:29) It’s a serotonin reuptake inhibitor. (2:10:31) So prevention from uptaking serotonin.(2:10:36) Um, and serotonin was thought, believed to be related to depression. (2:10:42) So if prevented, so, well, what is, but listed side effects are (2:10:49) homicidal and suicidal ideation. (2:10:53) And, um, you know, you can’t even have the conversation about whether or (2:10:57) not a mass shooter, you know, was on SSRIs, um, they don’t allow it.(2:11:05) And, um, I think it’s like a four out of five. (2:11:07) If I don’t, I’m happy to be fact checked, but I think the last four (2:11:12) out of five or like eight out of 10 or some really unique statistic seems (2:11:17) to be very out of, out of line with what you would traditionally (2:11:21) think statistically probable. (2:11:24) Um, and, and I will dare to say that if you also go back over the last, at (2:11:30) least five years, uh, statistically high number of the, of the mass (2:11:37) shooters are also, uh, identify as trans.(2:11:40) Um, and so then you also, there is a mental disorder of some sort, almost (2:11:45) like a, with like, like COVID had comorbidities, there’s almost like a (2:11:48) co-mentalities like in a weird way. (2:11:52) And I don’t want to make any small joke of that. (2:11:54) It is a serious problem.(2:11:56) It’s a serious problem. (2:11:57) I raise it out of compassion for the victims of the shootings, but also for (2:12:02) the perpetrators of these shootings, not that, you know, once you do that, (2:12:07) I’m not going to defend you, obviously, and you can’t defend it, but at the same (2:12:15) time, between whatever they’ve been fed on social media, you know, that is also (2:12:21) a drug, literally you, it’s a dopamine hit every time a new TikTok video comes (2:12:27) on, so you’re talking about dopamine, you’re messing with serotonin, you’re (2:12:31) messing with the fundamental chemicals. (2:12:33) Um, so I, but I feel for the people who get, whose brains get destroyed by this.(2:12:41) And then they, they undertake these horrific acts. (2:12:46) I do feel for them, but obviously everything they’ve done is a hundred (2:12:50) percent immoral, wrong, and I can’t defend them. (2:12:53) And, but I have compassion for who they were before whatever happened.(2:12:57) How they got there. (2:12:58) We’re really, we’re really compassionate for how it happened because it’s (2:13:02) not, I’m a pilot, so it’s, it’s great. (2:13:07) Yeah.(2:13:07) Pilot crashes a plane. (2:13:09) Okay. (2:13:09) It’s pilot error.(2:13:10) Well, I guess it’s solved because the pilot’s dead now. (2:13:13) No. (2:13:13) What were the conditions that led up to the, to the pilot making the decision (2:13:17) or the action that caused that? (2:13:19) It’s not, it doesn’t go away with the, with the person going away.(2:13:23) There’s an underlying thing that led to that cultivation of that thing. (2:13:28) So the compassion is a stoic compassion for, yes, this person is the, is wrong (2:13:36) for doing what they did and they are held accountable and we need to understand (2:13:41) how that happens so that we can at least prevent it from a cultural perspective. (2:13:45) So we don’t get there again.(2:13:47) Exactly. (2:13:48) And I think the same is true, you know, with trans children who are (2:13:53) detransitioning, let’s talk about why did that happen, you know? (2:13:57) And all of that. (2:13:59) So, um, you know, I think that, and once again, I hate to say follow the money.(2:14:04) I mean, we talked about that all the time, but we’re finding industries (2:14:07) where, where treatment like war, it’s all of the industries are about treatment. (2:14:14) I mean, even wars, if you have enough people, you don’t want to win a war. (2:14:18) They don’t want to win a war.(2:14:19) They want to sustain the war because the sustaining of the wars (2:14:23) where the money keeps coming. (2:14:24) Once again, follow the money. (2:14:26) It happens in every industry from education to pharma, to (2:14:32) MIC, to big X, big Y, you know, blank industry.(2:14:37) Yeah. (2:14:39) And, and, and that I can imagine that your time, what would have cultivated (2:14:44) the, the, the, uh, the traditional Democrat in you, the classical Democrat (2:14:50) is that compassion noticing that part. (2:14:53) Cause that’s a truth.(2:14:56) It’s not right. (2:14:57) That’s not right. (2:14:57) That these people are getting kind of a little rain, but it’s, it, it is a (2:15:00) truth, but it’s also a result of our allowance of it festering within the (2:15:06) system, you know, you know, we never let it get stay apart and that what that’s (2:15:13) the late stage capitalism when it buys itself, right.(2:15:16) When it really, the, by the regulations are bought to keep other people out, not (2:15:20) to actually create some kind of safety, for example, yeah, a hundred percent. (2:15:25) And I think if you also add to it that, you know, the number of times people (2:15:29) have been driving cars into crowds, it’s the same mental illness, it’s a different (2:15:34) weapon, so we don’t talk about banning cars. (2:15:37) The conversation always becomes about the guns.(2:15:40) So we don’t talk about what is going wrong in our society that people believe (2:15:45) that it’s okay to either take a gun and mow people down or take a car and mow (2:15:50) people down and just don’t ever get to that conversation. (2:15:54) Um, well, we do actually, but we do it in a media twisty way. (2:15:58) Let’s, let’s, let’s delve into that real quick example.(2:16:01) You give, remember it was an SUV that killed all those people in that parade, (2:16:07) but it was a white man that drove the crap into the crowd in Carolina somewhere. (2:16:13) Right. (2:16:13) Remember, remember how the media spin it too, right? (2:16:17) It’s like, we can’t be honest that it happened to be a person of color (2:16:21) that drove that SUV into that parade, or it was a person who was a trans ideology (2:16:27) who had a manifesto in Tennessee who shot up that school, you know, shot up that (2:16:31) school, right? (2:16:32) The, the, these are things we, once again, it’s a stoic compassion to solve, to (2:16:40) solve the actual issues to allow the, to allow the civilization to heal, you know, (2:16:49) and move forward from something like that and, and get beyond that.(2:16:53) But again, if your tools are fear and division, then that’s what, that’s what (2:17:01) the media helps continue that division and create that fear. (2:17:06) Um, so I was digressing. (2:17:09) I would love to come back and have another conversation with you sometime, (2:17:13) but, um, I, again, give us a shout out again.(2:17:16) And I love the digression. (2:17:18) So, so (2:17:18) okay. (2:17:19) So yeah, I mean, I talk about that too, in the book, you know, um, part of what I (2:17:24) do in the book is talk about media bias.(2:17:27) And I use four examples and those examples include gun violence. (2:17:30) They include, um, uh, the, the situation in Ukraine. (2:17:36) They, um, and yeah, I’m not a Putin apologist, but I don’t believe people (2:17:42) have been told, I think I am.(2:17:43) I was told I was, you have no idea. (2:17:46) I’m a puppet also. (2:17:47) I’m a puppet.(2:17:48) So, you know, I mean, I guess we might sort of be on the same page (2:17:52) about what’s happening over there, but I, but, uh, the media has certainly (2:17:56) not been honest and, and, um, thorough in the facts about what led up (2:18:01) to the, to the situation over there. (2:18:03) Um, and then I, um, I talk about also sort of the summer of love versus January (2:18:12) and how it was covered and how the bias, um, there, um, and, uh, so, and I (2:18:21) think there’s one more example, but I think, you know, the, the, the level (2:18:26) of bias in, in the media is incredible. (2:18:30) And, um, I mean, we don’t have, (2:18:33) it became an elite job.(2:18:35) You remember, remember those scruffy wrinkled shirted guys from the (2:18:40) seventies smoking chain, smoking, taking their Adderall, their glasses (2:18:43) all crooked and they’re screwed. (2:18:45) They got tape on them, holding them together. (2:18:47) Their hair is a mess that it’s now the elite.(2:18:50) Cause you know, you have to put an image. (2:18:51) You have to look like Chris Cuomo. (2:18:53) All of a sudden you can be a complete, absolute moron and absolute (2:18:58) idiot and talk like that captured complete evil person.(2:19:04) And, but he looked good. (2:19:05) Gosh, darn it. (2:19:06) That guy looks so good on screen.(2:19:07) Doesn’t mean he can lift that weight. (2:19:08) And gosh, he’s like, he looks buff. (2:19:10) So it’s like became an elite institution from the blue collar, (2:19:14) which is the classic Democrat.(2:19:16) That was the journalist. (2:19:17) The it’s to me, it’s almost like it happened at Nixon. (2:19:20) It’s like once that got sensationalized, that Woodward and that broken story (2:19:24) with Woodward and Bernstein deep throat and all that with, with a Watergate (2:19:28) that shifted the government trust to the journalists and then the corporation (2:19:34) got the journalist captured and the government and it’s like all now.(2:19:39) And don’t together, you know, don’t forget, um, operation mockingbird (2:19:43) and don’t forget our intelligence. (2:19:45) They thank you. (2:19:47) Yes, for sure.(2:19:49) Yeah. (2:19:50) So, um, you know, that, that, that is something and, you know, that I think (2:19:56) was really shocking and hard for me too, when I really realized that, um, there (2:20:02) were no independent journalists anymore. (2:20:04) It’s all corporate controlled six companies.(2:20:06) Clinton went from like 51 to six, I think is what we did during that. (2:20:10) He signed into that deal. (2:20:12) I think we’re now down to six total.(2:20:13) We’re down to six. (2:20:15) Um, Sinclair being one of them. (2:20:17) Um, and if you’ve ever seen the, um, it’s extremely dangerous to our (2:20:21) democracy montage of local news.(2:20:24) Have you seen that Mark? (2:20:26) That, that, but that I think is pretty eyeopening to someone who thinks we (2:20:32) have actual, um, journalists who are reporting news independently of one (2:20:37) another and of, of the government, because we’re not, I mean, we look, (2:20:42) we are having democracy. (2:20:43) We’ve just, we’ve literally had two assassination attempts since freedom fest. (2:20:48) Meanwhile, the guy with private security, Robert F. (2:20:51) Kennedy, I didn’t see a scratch.(2:20:52) I met the guys who did his security. (2:20:54) They, they were solid. (2:20:55) They were, they screened us before we got in there pretty darn well.(2:20:58) Um, but I find two, two attempts, right? (2:21:00) One is on, obviously on Trump and one was on, uh, Biden’s presidential run. (2:21:05) Clearly, clearly two assassination attempts. (2:21:08) And it’s the thing that democracy is at stake while, while, while (2:21:12) the Zelensky on March 20th should have been removed from office if he wasn’t (2:21:17) reelected, but who cares? (2:21:18) It wasn’t an election because we were saving democracy and the night that (2:21:22) Anthony Blinken decided to save democracy by removing the ability (2:21:27) to have elections in Ukraine.(2:21:28) He plays, keep on rocking in the free world in Kiev. (2:21:31) Cause he’s a rock star. (2:21:33) I mean, these are the unbelievable things that I see.(2:21:36) And I apologize that I keep jumping in like that, but it’s like watching (2:21:40) these things and people don’t know these things. (2:21:43) And when I talk to people about these things, there it’s about the (2:21:47) deprogramming, but we try to do it with kindness because I know we (2:21:50) can’t bash them over the head. (2:21:51) We can’t just smack because people get defensive.(2:21:54) This isn’t anyone’s fault. (2:21:55) People were into it because they’re not being given the correct information. (2:22:01) It does take work, but we have to trust each other that people are really (2:22:06) trying to spread these weird pieces of information that, wait, you’re (2:22:10) telling me that Zelensky who’s running for democracy is now a dictator? (2:22:14) Yeah, he is.(2:22:15) As of March 20th of 2024. (2:22:17) Yeah, he is. (2:22:18) That’s just (2:22:18) that.(2:22:20) Plus he got rid of all the opposing party. (2:22:26) Let’s talk about Michael McFaul complaining about Navalny dying in (2:22:31) Russia as a Russian guy who was propped up by CIA in the first (2:22:35) place or by the state department. (2:22:37) Let’s talk about that guy.(2:22:38) While Gonzalo Lira, an American citizen gets arrested in Ukraine by the (2:22:44) people we’re funding in the hundreds of billions of dollars to protect (2:22:48) democracy, they let him die in their prison. (2:22:51) Not a word is said about that. (2:22:53) Not a single word is said about that.(2:22:55) We, we rescued Brittany Griner, but not the other gentleman who was (2:22:59) been sitting there in that prison. (2:23:00) For what? (2:23:01) For the optics? (2:23:03) You know? (2:23:04) Yeah. (2:23:05) I mean, I think, you know, two things I’ll say about, you know, first Mark, (2:23:13) the best strategy for helping people wake up is to ask funny questions.(2:23:17) Don’t try to tell them. (2:23:19) Ask questions because all you’re trying to do is force the (2:23:23) dissonance to get to the point where the brain stops. (2:23:27) And that’s exactly what I do.(2:23:28) It’s a very come to me, like open-handed with the, with the salt (2:23:32) lick right when to the deer, it’s like, (2:23:34) ask questions. (2:23:36) You’ll never be able to tell them anything. (2:23:39) Yep.(2:23:39) And, um, and the other thing that I would say is that the question, when (2:23:44) you say, well, I’m defending democracy. (2:23:47) Or we need, you know, democracy’s at risk. (2:23:50) The question is what is democracy? (2:23:53) What does it mean to you? (2:23:55) Because if you’re protecting an institution, that’s not democracy.(2:24:01) If you’re protecting a particular policy, that’s not democracy. (2:24:06) If you’re trying to keep a candidate who has won the primaries off of your (2:24:13) ballot, because of something that’s not democracy, if you are trying to, (2:24:19) um, you know, so what does democracy mean now? (2:24:24) I personally don’t, I’m glad we don’t have a direct democracy in this. (2:24:28) No, I love that we have a constitutional Republic.(2:24:30) I was going to say the truth is from a libertarian perspective. (2:24:34) Once, if people don’t know, democracy is the tyranny of the majority. (2:24:38) I mean, that’s, that’s how democracy is viewed from a libertarian perspective.(2:24:42) Yeah. (2:24:43) And, um, so that’s really the question is what is democracy? (2:24:48) And, and, you know, it’s even worse than a lot of people think, well, let’s say (2:24:54) you have a thousand people in your, in your city and you have a direct democracy. (2:24:59) It isn’t that you need 501 people to vote for something in order for it (2:25:04) to, to be a tyranny of the majority.(2:25:07) It means that if 200 people show up and vote 101 of them could, if only 30 people (2:25:14) show up and vote, 16 of them can have a tyranny of a majority. (2:25:20) So, um, you know, there’s a, there’s a way to break that down for sure. (2:25:26) And when, when, when, you know, the unit party elite talk about democracy, what (2:25:33) they really mean is that that’s what they mean, they mean the people who are in (2:25:37) control, that’s what’s at risk.(2:25:40) It’s not our constitutional Republic. (2:25:43) It’s them being able to win through cheating or what have you, but in general, (2:25:51) but it’s, it’s, it’s their own power that’s at risk, not democracy. (2:25:57) So, all right.(2:25:58) Well, we go on that. (2:26:00) You’re you’re in the, you have the booth. (2:26:01) If I, if I just made just a quick about your experiences on the booth, uh, (2:26:06) explain maybe just one, maybe one, like less than negative, less than positive (2:26:10) experience that may be turned around or how you approach those people.(2:26:12) And maybe just one, your general positive experiences as people walk by and see (2:26:18) that’s a libertarian convention or a freedom class or freedom class or any, any (2:26:24) of the conventions or anything like when you have your booth open, you know, some (2:26:27) of the, I’m sure you get mixed responses. (2:26:29) Cause I get, I talked to a bunch of people. (2:26:33) Overwhelmingly positive.(2:26:34) I would say, I mean, very few negative responses. (2:26:37) Um, you know, when you, I think the thing is, and you may have noticed this (2:26:41) when you talk to me, Mark, or I’m really genuine and vulnerable. (2:26:46) Like I’m pretty vulnerable about my story and I’m, I’m pretty open about it.(2:26:51) So, and I think people, I think that, that opens for trust. (2:26:54) Cause I’m the same way. (2:26:55) It’s like, I was wrong.(2:26:58) I made a mistake. (2:26:59) I have my place to take my hat. (2:27:01) I put it in my hand.(2:27:02) It is out of humility. (2:27:03) I come to you with an idea because I came from a different idea and realize (2:27:09) I’m, I’m humbled by this whole experience. (2:27:12) I mean, I, my complete ego was destroyed and I’ve had to rebuild it and it’s a (2:27:17) much humbler ego than, you know, was pushed at me through all my indoctrination (2:27:21) and all of my schooling and my jobs.(2:27:25) Um, and so I bring that humbleness with me and, you know, if I’m having a (2:27:30) conversation, I mean, I had a couple where, you know, there were a few things (2:27:34) we didn’t a hundred percent agree about, but I think people, we agreed to disagree (2:27:39) and we were respectful and I come at it from, you know, you’re right. (2:27:44) I’m wrong. (2:27:45) It’s okay.(2:27:45) You know, that’s fine. (2:27:46) It’s not, that doesn’t mean I think you’re a bad person or I don’t like you. (2:27:50) It’s just, we have a difference of opinion.(2:27:52) And so I don’t really have any negative, you know, um, to, uh, to share. (2:27:59) Um, but I’ve had, (2:28:00) no, that’s great. (2:28:01) I love it.(2:28:01) I love that people come to you and you have, and you do have (2:28:04) that way to your point is you, you, the way I walk by your booth myriad (2:28:10) times during that event, and it was just, it was just very nice just to (2:28:13) see they were pleasant conversations, regardless of the idea of the ideas (2:28:18) that they were presented with some kind of tact, humility, respect, courtesy, (2:28:24) whatever you want to say that left it open for people to allow the interaction (2:28:29) to occur in the first place. (2:28:30) And that’s very important. (2:28:31) Yeah.(2:28:32) And, you know, I mean, I had long conversations with a lot of people and, (2:28:37) you know, what, what really came through to me at both places was how much, so (2:28:41) many of these people cared about a family member or a friend that they really (2:28:45) wanted to help, you know, and, um, and I, I did my best, you know, to help them. (2:28:52) And, um, it’s funny because the whole idea of asking questions is really (2:28:58) hard for some people because they want to tell them, they think they know, (2:29:01) and they want to tell them. (2:29:03) And even when they would try to reframe something into a question, like I’d say, (2:29:08) okay, so tell me, like, uh, give me an example of a conversation you had with (2:29:11) this person and how did it go? (2:29:13) And I’m like, well, can you reframe that into a question? (2:29:16) And they would, and it would still be them telling you something, but asking.(2:29:20) Cause it’s got that bias to it. (2:29:22) Yeah. (2:29:22) Cause like, I’ll give you an example where I was at the fireside chat (2:29:24) with the libertarian candidates.(2:29:27) And there were two sticking points. (2:29:29) We talked about them specifically, but I made sure to, oh, I did my best to not (2:29:35) let my bias get involved in the question. (2:29:39) So for example, the border, right? (2:29:41) I, my understanding is he, uh, Chase Oliver, for example, (2:29:44) is a little more open border.(2:29:45) That’s my understanding at the time going in, but what I said was, could (2:29:49) you please clarify your border policy or your stance, because I’m hearing (2:29:53) many different, different ideas about it. (2:29:57) So you have to, to your point, you have to be very careful at how (2:30:00) those questions are framed as well. (2:30:02) Uh, like that one that went after Tucker, the one in Australia.(2:30:05) She’s like, oh, so, you know, so they, now that you said white (2:30:08) people are being replaced, he’s like, I never, I never said that. (2:30:11) Like your whole frame, y’all, you know, your whole framing of the (2:30:14) questions already biased from a lie. (2:30:17) At the onset.(2:30:18) And that’s to your point about the media bias as well. (2:30:21) Yeah, oh, definitely. (2:30:23) So, um, I, I really don’t have, yeah.(2:30:26) I mean, I will say that, um, I’ve had some great reactions to the book. (2:30:31) Um, these were multi-day events and I had one person say that they left (2:30:35) and they were up till midnight reading it and they couldn’t put it down. (2:30:38) I had another guy come up and say, you know, um, I really want to give you a hug.(2:30:44) And I was like, okay, I love hugs. (2:30:47) You know, love is great. (2:30:49) Hugs are great.(2:30:51) So, and I said, why do you want to give me a hug? (2:30:53) Because you, you know, you’ve been so open and honest and what you put down (2:30:58) on paper is really hard to go through or to admit, let alone go through. (2:31:04) So like, you know, I just want to be like, thank you with a hug. (2:31:08) And so I got a hug.(2:31:09) So, you know, I’ve had really, really warm reception, really good experiences. (2:31:14) Um, and I’ve said this to multiple people, like, um, I also went to CPAC, um, in (2:31:22) February and I was very well received there as well. (2:31:26) And I, so I would say from the libertarian and freedom community, um, independent (2:31:31) thinkers, as well as conservatives, I’ve been welcomed and I don’t know that (2:31:37) the same would happen if any of them went to the DNC, I don’t know that it (2:31:44) would be as much of an open, you know, welcome and so I’ve, I’ve been really, (2:31:50) I think that’s a perfect place to end that.(2:31:52) Yeah. (2:31:53) And so I don’t think the DNC is welcoming, right? (2:31:56) Go ahead. (2:31:56) I doubt it.(2:31:57) But all I want to do is say again, the book is deprogramming Democrats (2:32:01) and uneducating new leads. (2:32:03) How I escaped a progressive cult. (2:32:05) Um, I, uh, it’s available on Amazon and it’s available on Barnes and Noble.(2:32:10) Um, I am at, I am deprogrammed them on Twitter and, uh, you can also (2:32:19) check out my website, deprogrammingdemocrats.com. (2:32:23) Uh, you can sign up. (2:32:24) I’m going to start doing like a, a weekly deprogramming digest, um, and (2:32:30) kind of ideas, also talking about current events and how it might be perceived in (2:32:36) the progressive cult versus, you know, reality and those kinds of things. (2:32:40) So, um, you can sign up for that.(2:32:43) A thought for you would be to do like a Twitter spaces to an X spaces. (2:32:49) Cause that would be fun. (2:32:50) Cause then you could talk to a lot of people and have a lot of inter interactions.(2:32:53) You just need a headset, you know, real simple, real simple. (2:32:55) So yeah, I have, I have a headset. (2:32:58) I just didn’t put it on.(2:33:00) No, no. (2:33:01) I’m just saying like, you could do stuff like that too. (2:33:02) Like there’s a lot of ways now to spread messages of this liberty (2:33:06) and, and just general deprogramming.(2:33:08) It’s not even like, yes, you came from the Democrat side. (2:33:11) Hey, I came from the, from the neocon side. (2:33:13) So we, we had to undo that stuff that they threw in our face because we need to step (2:33:19) back, look at both sides, look at all sides from analytical lenses, use reason, (2:33:24) logic, yes, compassion is part of that, but also, you know, reason is part of (2:33:29) that and logic and reality, you know, it’s so many things and data and (2:33:32) evidence and all of it, yeah, absolutely.(2:33:35) And tradition. (2:33:36) So I’m not, you know, it’s asking a conservative person, why some, why (2:33:39) they have to defend something like marriage or children is like, uh, (2:33:42) cause we’ve like done it pretty much since we were standing upright. (2:33:46) Like, how do you defend, you know, how do you defend something (2:33:48) that’s just worked forever? (2:33:51) You know what I mean? (2:33:52) It’s like, there’s no need, you know, in that way.(2:33:54) So it’s, it’s, yeah. (2:33:56) And it is, but I think, you know, I can give you some data and (2:34:00) evidence to different families and we could talk about that. (2:34:04) The point is it, because it’s existed this long is the whole point is that it (2:34:08) is this more stable, the net positive, the net, the net.(2:34:11) Way to get, to propagate, right? (2:34:14) Like that’s kind of the point is that it’s existed is already the evidence. (2:34:17) There’s no need to defend it because the existence that it’s (2:34:21) propagated this far kind of, you know what I mean? (2:34:23) Yeah. (2:34:24) No, I got it.(2:34:25) I got it. (2:34:25) Yeah. (2:34:25) A hundred percent.(2:34:26) So thank you so much for having me on. (2:34:30) Thank you. (2:34:31) I know you need to get your chickens and that’s so great.(2:34:33) You have that, uh, that thing, please, I would love for you to, you should (2:34:38) do a cooking show with all your fruits and vegetables and all (2:34:41) your eggs and everything. (2:34:42) And that would be fun. (2:34:43) I love cooking.(2:34:45) Um, and I’m a great cook if I say so myself, but I will pioneer (2:34:50) to pioneer to 2.0, we’ll call you. (2:34:52) How about that? (2:34:53) All right. (2:34:54) Sounds good.(2:34:55) Um, and we should, we should have another conversation. (2:34:58) Yes. (2:34:59) Uh, do me a favor.(2:35:00) This is what we’ll do. (2:35:01) Take down the topics. (2:35:02) We can, I can talk.(2:35:03) You see, you see what we can talk about deep wide. (2:35:05) You name it. (2:35:05) We’ll do it.(2:35:06) Let me hit stop here really quickly. (2:35:08) Thank you so much for joining us on Knocked Conscious. (2:35:11) Okay.(2:35:12) You’re welcome. (2:35:13) It was my pleasure. (2:35:14) Have a great day.(2:35:16) You too. (2:35:21) Good night, sweetheart. (2:35:23) Well, it’s time to go.(2:35:27) Good night, sweetheart. (2:35:30) Well, it’s time to go. (2:35:34) I hate to leave you, but I really must say good night.(2:35:40) Sweetheart, good night.